Brennan has 0 quality wins and they'd be 5-5 vs UF's schedule which is a top 10 one in strength. Did you even watch college football this year. lol
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Heisman talk (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Captain Spaulding
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FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
Hawaii would be lucky to muster up 5 wins with that schedule. Washington would have been the 11th toughest game on Florida's schedule, as opposed to the toughest on Hawaii's.
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OldSchoolLikeThat
Footballguy
The hate oozing from your post is incredible. Please explain why Florida has the 9th ranked SOS, but somehow the teams they played were "tiers under" them?
Koya
Footballguy
Im just trying to pass time inciting CFB fans before kickoff, I really am out of my element here. But from my very casual viewing perspective, Tebow compiled a LOT of those numbers against teams that Florida is a lot better than. And didnt Florida lose to the better teams on their schedule for the most part this year?Im open to change my semi informed (semi being generous) perspective. But my vote is Brennan against his weak competition with a non championship caliber team while not losing to a team that many had in championship contention who's QB lost a few. Also, I have nothing against Florida, though I don't much respect their coach (he is good, I just don't like him from some of the comments and all, but I don't begrudge the school at all)
His injury will hurt him the most as he would have put up amazing stats had he not missed those three games. Unfortunately I doubt Heisman voters will give him it to him without the eye-boggling stats playing in a gimmicky offense without real competition. I would personally give it to him first, then Chase Daniel. Just because he lost the Big 12, he took Missouri much further than anyone would have expected this season.
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OldSchoolLikeThat
Footballguy
Fair enough. Florida went 2-2 vs. ranked (at the time) teams - 1-3 vs ranked (as of today) teams. If your vote is for Brennan, while admitting that Brennan's team is not championship caliber, then the same holds true for Tebow because Florida (especially their defense) is not championship caliber. To take Brennan's team (which you are, unless you say that Brennan on a 3-loss Hawaii team deserves the same consideration) plays a part in the Heisman voting, and Brennan gets your vote, then you are saying a 0-loss Hawaii team with the 137th ranked SOS is better or equal to a 3-loss Florida team with the 9th ranked SOS.Koya said:
OldSchoolLikeThat
Footballguy
If Brennan wasn't injured. If Brennan didn't miss games. If Dennis Dixon didn't get hurt. If Arkansas was a 1-loss team playing for the title. If Chase Daniel and Mizzou could beat OU. If Mike Hart wasn't injured.If Tebow wasn't injured in the Georgia game, UF beats UGA, UF plays for (and wins) the SECCG, we aren't having this discussion.The "if's" do not decide Heisman voting. We can only go by what these athletes did on the field, not what they could have done barring injury.
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
As much as it sounds cliche'd, Krameruf is right here.The Gators lost their games IN SPITE of Tebow, not because of him. UF has the worst defense I've seen them have in my lifetime, and it's not really close. In all seriousness, Hawaii's defense is probably better than Florida's.It's amazing to me that you think that Tebow cost his team games when one of his strengths is that he carried his team in every game. Whereas a guy like Chase Daniels, while having a great season, really blew it in their two losses (in the first OU loss his first 3 4th quarter possessions were a fumble returned for a touchdown, a punt as a result of taking a dumb sack, and an interception deep in their own territory) Tebow always carried his team to even have a chance in the games that they lost.Against Auburn he led them back from a two score defecit and had them in position driving down for the game winning FG before Percy Harvin caught a 5 yard pass, reversed field, and lost 20 yards to kill the drive. Then the putrid Florida defense couldn't stop Auburn's bad offense from driving down for the game winner.Against LSU, Florida wins that game going away if Kehstahn Moore doesn't fumble twice and Cornelius Ingram doesn't run the wrong route to cause an interception. Even with those blunders around him, Tebow still had Florida up 4 points with 9 minutes to go. Unfortunately, Florida's putrid defense once again showed their colors by allowing LSU to put together an 8+ minute drive for the game winning score.In Auburn, they were trading scores until Kehstahn Moore against lost two fumbles to give Georgia the edge. I think the UF defense stopped Georgia 1 time when the game was still in hand.The bottom line is even disregarding the best teams they played, if you think the talent disparity between teams like Florida and Kentucky or Florida and Florida State is larger than the talent disparity between Hawaii and the SE Missouri States of the world you're kidding yourself.Florida is a team with a good WR corps (including one stud WR, although Tebow put up even better numbers in the games that Percy missed), an average offense line, a horrible RB corps, and a horrible defense. In the SEC that gives you a "huge talent disparity" over Vandy and that's pretty much it. Even winless Ole Miss made this Florida team look slow.
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
Look, you are absolutely kidding yourself. I can't believe someone could even post something as ridiculous as this.You see what Oregon has become without Dixon? That is what happens to Florida without Tebow.Meanwhile, Brennan missed 3 games for Hawaii and they won all 3. So unless you're saying they would've gone 0-9 against the rest...
cobalt_27
Footballguy
I disagree.Signed,David Klingler
And I can't believe someone could even post something as ridiculous as this.Did you seriously just compare the defending national champions to Oregon? Umm, Florida has about 10x as much supporting talent and Dixon > Tebow.Brennan missed 2 games. You think a Brennan-less win over Charleston Southern proves that Hawaii is just as good without him?Someone's been spending too much time on the Tebow-hype machine... err ESPN.
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
Without Tebow, Florida loses to Ole Miss by 2 scores.Yay, Florida won the national championship on the legs of their defense last year. The legs of their defense that lost 9 starters. Who cares? Florida's offense SUCKED last year. This year it is one of the best in the country. What is the difference? Tim Tebow. That's it.Yes I compared Oregon to Florida. Oregon has a better defense and much better running backs. Florida has better WRs and a better quarterback.Hawaii played Charleston Southern and Nevada without Brennan and won. You act as if they weren't playing teams like that week in and week out. Hawaii could have won 6 or 7 games this year with me starting at quarterback.Don't get me started on the ESPN hype machine. ESPN would have me believe that McFadden has a shot at winning the heisman and that Hawaii is a good football team. Neither are true.
Tebow's thrown for more touchdowns than Leinart did when he won the Heisman AND rushed for more than Bush when Bush won the award.
I just think that's amazing.
Also, as for the "no sophmore has ever won it" argument, we've entered into a period when guys are leaving as underclassmen, something that was virtually unheard of until he last twenty years or so. With that dynamic changing, it's just a matter of time until a sophomore wins the Heisman.
To not vote for a guy because he's a sophomore is stupid. I mean, that's as stupid as thinking a national champion can really be decided without a playoff.
I just think that's amazing.
Also, as for the "no sophmore has ever won it" argument, we've entered into a period when guys are leaving as underclassmen, something that was virtually unheard of until he last twenty years or so. With that dynamic changing, it's just a matter of time until a sophomore wins the Heisman.
To not vote for a guy because he's a sophomore is stupid. I mean, that's as stupid as thinking a national champion can really be decided without a playoff.
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Yeah, Tebow did an awesome job in that game of blocking for himself and catching his own passes. Oh wait, he had some of the best players in the country doing that for him.Florida's offense didn't SUCK last year, it was a top 20-25 offense all year. And when did I mention the defense? I said his supporting cast on offense was one of the best in the country. If anything, the crappy defense has allowed him to run up the stats because they actually had to play from behind this year.Florida has a better o-line and wide receivers. The defense doesn't affect Tebow's play and Florida doesn't use a feature back, so it's apples and oranges.No, Hawaii didn't play Charleston Southern every week. Do you realize how bad that team is? Probably not, because you obviously don't pay attention to football outside the SEC.I suppose you also thought that Roethlisberger, Romo, Favre, Garrard, Warner, etc. weren't very good quarterbacks in comparison to their big school counterparts. How'd that work out for you?
And yet he doesn't even lead the country this year in total TDs for a QB.
I didn't say he did. It's the overall, even combination of passing AND rushing TD numbers that's amazing to me.
OldSchoolLikeThat
Footballguy
Judging by the other observations in your posts, you haven't seen a single Florida game this year.The Heisman Trophy is awarded to the best player in college football. Not the best-player-with-the-worst-supporting-cast, or the best-player-with-the-best-recruiting-class-surrounding-him. Why does it matter if Tebow has a better supporting cast than Brennan? I'm sorry you can't see that Tebow has put up great numbers against meaningful competition. If having a great supporting cast helps him be the best player in college football, then so be it. If you want to penalize Tebow and Florida for having skill on offense, I'm going to penalize Brennan and Hawaii for 1) having a horrible SOS and 2) being 7th from dead last in the NCAA in rushing.
You are right. Instead, Tebow ranks 3rd in rushing TDs. For a QB. 51 total TDs. But according to your logic, we should be voting for Graham Harrell - I mean, he does lead the NCAA in passing yards and TDs.
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
Look, it's obvious you know little about the Florida team you're trying to talk about.Tebow didn't block for himself or catch his own passes in the Ole Miss game, but he may as well have. He was met at or near the line on most plays and carried guys for 4-7 yards repeatedly. His O-line is better than Hawaii's, but average at best nationally. The fact that Florida doesn't use a feature back in far from irrelevant. They don't use one because they don't have anyone good enough to be one, and as a result they have to put their best WR back there. When Percy doesn't line up at WR (or when he was out with injuries) the Florida and Hawaii WRs are pretty comparable, with only Caldwell (who missed half the season) being notably better than the Hawaii WRs.
Florida's line and WRs are better than Hawaii's, but the defenses they're facing are also leagues upon leagues better than the ones Hawaii was facing. And the difference between the Florida line/WRs vs. the Hawaii line/WRs is far less than the difference between Auburn's defense and Fresno State's.
As for your statement that Florida was a top 20 offense last year, you just lost any credibility you had. Florida's offense was terrible last year. They scored when they did usually because their amazing defense set them up with great field position time after time after time. With as much as they started deep in their opponent's territory last year even an average offense would have averaged 35-40 points per game.
This year, they have gotten good starting field position off turnovers less than 3 times this year and their defense allows the other team to stay out on the field for much longer and run down the clock, yet they've still put up a heck of a lot more points.
Believe me, in the grand scheme of things, last year's offense was quite inept. Comparing it to this year's offense is just the most laughable thing anyone could possibly do. Last year's was the worst offense Florida has had since the start of the Spurrier era, this year's is right on par with (and possibly better than) the amazing offenses they put together in '96 and '01. Again, the only difference between the worst in a decade and a half and possibly the best in a decade and a half was the move from Leak to Tebow.
You say that the defense is irrelevant, but you also say that losses are relevant. Florida has lost this year *ONLY* because of their defense.
As for your last comment, you see that quarterback in my sig? I traded up in our rookie draft to get that guy with Phillip Rivers still on the board and have ridden him without waiver ever since. I also thought (and said) that when Steve McNair was going to tear the NFL apart when he came out of that monstrous Alcorn State University.
I like the little guy, but comparing Brennan to Tebow this year is not even possible. Vegas (who has no bias) agrees, putting Tebow's odds at 1.2:1 (that's one point two, not twelve in case the decimal is hard to see) and Brennan's at 50:1.
Also, you're the one sitting in here severely underrating Hawaii's WRs just because they were not big name recruits and don't play for a big name school. Those guys have a ton of YAC this year.
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Why is that confusing for you? The Florida defense doesn't affect how well Tebow plays, but it does affect how long he stays in the game and how aggresive the Florida play-calling is. You act like those 2 comments are mutually exclusive, when they aren't significantly related at all.I agree. The Heisman should go to the best player. My argument is that Tebow's supporting cast makes up for the difference in SOS between he and Brennan. The funny part is that I don't think either player is the best in the country. The best player in the country right now is Kevin Smith, but he can't win because the award is set up to be given to the best hyped player in the country.According to most of the logic I've read in this thread, we should give the Heisman to Jake Locker because he's played the toughest schedule in the country.
Judging by the other observations in your posts, you haven't seen a single Florida game this year.The Heisman Trophy is awarded to the best player in college football. Not the best-player-with-the-worst-supporting-cast, or the best-player-with-the-best-recruiting-class-surrounding-him. Why does it matter if Tebow has a better supporting cast than Brennan? I'm sorry you can't see that Tebow has put up great numbers against meaningful competition. If having a great supporting cast helps him be the best player in college football, then so be it. If you want to penalize Tebow and Florida for having skill on offense, I'm going to penalize Brennan and Hawaii for 1) having a horrible SOS and 2) being 7th from dead last in the NCAA in rushing.
You are right. Instead, Tebow ranks 3rd in rushing TDs. For a QB. 51 total TDs. But according to your logic, we should be voting for Graham Harrell - I mean, he does lead the NCAA in passing yards and TDs.
comxkid1962
Footballguy
The Florida defense actually limited the amount of time Tebow was on the field, thus limiting his chances to make plays. The defense could not get the other team's offense off the field leading to many long, time consuming drives. The supporting cast argument is not valid; Tebow has receivers and a good line, but no running back help to speak of. One question, how many Heisman Trophy winners were surrounded by a poor supporting cast?And if I can remember, Tebow was not on anyone's Heisman Trophy list in September. He earned his way there by his play. Kevin Smith belongs in the discussion, hopefully he comes back for his Senior year and builds on this year's success.Why is that confusing for you? The Florida defense doesn't affect how well Tebow plays, but it does affect how long he stays in the game and how aggresive the Florida play-calling is. You act like those 2 comments are mutually exclusive, when they aren't significantly related at all.I agree. The Heisman should go to the best player. My argument is that Tebow's supporting cast makes up for the difference in SOS between he and Brennan. The funny part is that I don't think either player is the best in the country. The best player in the country right now is Kevin Smith, but he can't win because the award is set up to be given to the best hyped player in the country.According to most of the logic I've read in this thread, we should give the Heisman to Jake Locker because he's played the toughest schedule in the country.
You are right. Instead, Tebow ranks 3rd in rushing TDs. For a QB. 51 total TDs. But according to your logic, we should be voting for Graham Harrell - I mean, he does lead the NCAA in passing yards and TDs.
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And you obviously know very little about any team other than Florida.You just compared the talent at WR for Hawaii to the talent at Florida? Harvin was the #1 WR in the country in the class of 2006. Caldwell was the #1 WR in the class of 2003. Ingram was the #3 athlete in the class of 2004 behind Alonzo Bryant and Dwayne Jarrett. Fayson and Cooper were both top 10 athletes in the class of 2006. That's laughable.
The field position argument doesn't hold water. How about backing up your opinion with some statistics instead of just what you can remember? Florida was 21st in the country in yards/game while only 33rd in points/game. So obviously they didn't score a result of awesome field position.
I never said losses are relevant. I said Florida's record would be the same regardless of who played QB.
Congrats. You drafted Roethlisberger in his 4th year in the league. Next you'll tell me that you think Steve Young was a great QB and submit that as evidence that you aren't biased. It's easy to have that opinion after the fact.
Vegas has no bias? Umm, sure. Except that Vegas is predicting who will WIN the Heisman, not who best fits the description of the Heisman winner. The system is flawed and Vegas is simply predicting who benefits from the flawed system. That was probably your worst argument yet.
If he does, it's a joke. He's going to make one hell of a pro, but Heisman winners don't go 17/43 (2.5 ypc) against Auburn, 28/88 (3.1 ypc) against Ole Miss, and most damaging of all, 19/61 (3.2 ypc) against FLORIDA FREAKING INTERNATIONAL. Say what you want about Tebow, but at least his worst game of the season was 225 total yards, 3 scores, and only 1 turnover against the #1 defense in the nation (still a pretty great game, especially if you watched it and saw that his stats were stellar until a bunch of incompletes in hail-mary situations made them look worse).
Florida State might be bad, but their defense is not. Ask Matt Ryan how good Florida State's defense is sometime (Ryan's QB rating against Florida State: 116. Tebow's: 182. And that's ignoring the rushing difference).
Yes, Tebow is a sophomore. No, no sophomore has ever won it. Of course, Tim Tebow just completed the best sophomore season of any player in NCAA history (and don't even bother mentioning Herschel Walker- Walker's freshman season was sensational, but Tebow was a better sophomore). Tebow is 3rd in the nation in rushing TDs, 9th in passing TDs, and 2nd in passer rating against one of the toughest schedules in the league, despite the fact that everyone knew what he was going to do all the time. He led arguably the best offense in Florida history- and yes, that includes the Fun and Gun offenses under Grossman and Wuerfful.
Tebow vs. Tennessee, LSU, Georgia, and Auburn- 1082 yards, 12 TDs (average of 271/3 per game), against only 3 turnovers. Oh yeah, his stats sure sucked against his quality opponents. And this is ignoring his 351/5 against that FSU defense that knocked Matt Ryan out of the Heisman race, or his 316/5 against a Vanderbilt team that was actually a top-10 defense nationally (and probably the 2nd or 3rd best defense in the SEC), or his 424/7 day against a South Carolina squad that actually achieved a top-10 ranking mostly on the strength of their defense before unraveling late in the year.Koya said:
Football Outsiders has a stat called FEI which measures how good college football teams are on a drive-by-drive basis, adjusted for the quality of the competition. According to FEI, Florida is the #1 offense in college football by a HUGE margin, and the #80-something defense. In short, Florida's losses were NOT the offense's fault. Not even close.Koya said:
He also has a better QB rating than Danny Wuerfful, the highest rated QB to ever win the Heisman.
Harvin missed time. Caldwell missed time. Tebow never missed a beat.Also, if you want to talk about laughable... Vegas says that Tebow will win the Heisman, and you're saying that Vegas is just predicting who benefits from the flawed system? How on earth does Tebow BENEFIT from the flawed system? There are many, many voters who won't even put him on the ballot because he's a sophomore. After Tebow shredded FSU for 5 TDs, an announcer said that maybe it was time to possibly start including Tebow in the Heisman conversation. I've heard many Heisman voters say that Tebow wasn't on the list because he'd get his chance next year. Tebow doesn't BENEFIT from the system, he suffers from the system worse than any other Heisman candidate in the country. The fact that he's still the odds-on favorite speaks to the kind of season that he's had.
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
I said Harvin and Caldwell were better than any of the Hawaii WRs. But Harvin has missed time and also spent a large percentage of his time essentially playing RB because of their lack of a decent option there, and Caldwell has missed a lot of time to injury. None of those things slowed Tebow down a bit. In fact, without Percy Tebow's touchdown numbers would probably have been even more impressive than they already are, since Percy is the only guy besides Tebow that Urban trusts in the redzone. Tebow put up his best numbers when Percy wasn't playing.Don't get me started on Fayson/Cooper. They have been completely irrelevant. Cooper has missed almost the entire year to injury and many Gator fans were happy about it, since he's spent more time screwing things up (the direct cause of half of Tebow's interceptions along with a couple long TD drops) than he has doing things right. Fayson hasn't even come close to living up to his recruiting ranking, wasn't even noticed when he missed time and was replaced by Nelson, and isn't even on the team anymore.You would have been better off bringing up Louis Murphy, who has been infinitely more reliable than either Fayson/Cooper and looks to be a MUCH better player than the two even though he wasn't nearly as highly touted as a recruit. But given the amount of knowledge you've demonstrated about the team you're attempting to argue about I wouldn't expect you to know who ACTUALLY is and is not good on the team. But enjoy your recruiting rankings from 3 years ago, those things are never wrong
The bottom line is that the talent difference in the defenses of the teams Tebow is playing vs. the talent difference of the teams Brennan is facing is farrrrrrrrr greater than the talent difference in Florida's O-line/WRs compared to Hawaii's, especially when you consider how much time Florida's WRs missed.
Well, I don't even know what to say to that because you're likely the only person in the country who thinks it. That includes Urban Meyer and most likely even the mothers of the guys who sit behind Tebow. Tim Tebow IS that offense. The whole thing. If Chris Leak was leading that offense again this year (#1 recruit remember Mr. Recruitnik) they would be struggling to break .500.
Please explain to me how in the world you gathered that I drafted Roethlisberger in my ROOKIE draft in his 4th year in the league. Breathe, read, THEN respond.
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Sorry, hidden within each novella post that was void of statistics, facts, or any sign of having watched a team other than Florida in the past 10 years, I must have missed the word 'rookie'. Amongst a number of unsubstantiated insults to my intelligence and credibility, my expectations apparently molded my interpretation.I said Harvin and Caldwell were better than any of the Hawaii WRs. But Harvin has missed time and also spent a large percentage of his time essentially playing RB because of their lack of a decent option there, and Caldwell has missed a lot of time to injury. None of those things slowed Tebow down a bit. In fact, without Percy Tebow's touchdown numbers would probably have been even more impressive than they already are, since Percy is the only guy besides Tebow that Urban trusts in the redzone. Tebow put up his best numbers when Percy wasn't playing.Don't get me started on Fayson/Cooper. They have been completely irrelevant. Cooper has missed almost the entire year to injury and many Gator fans were happy about it, since he's spent more time screwing things up (the direct cause of half of Tebow's interceptions along with a couple long TD drops) than he has doing things right. Fayson hasn't even come close to living up to his recruiting ranking, wasn't even noticed when he missed time and was replaced by Nelson, and isn't even on the team anymore.You would have been better off bringing up Louis Murphy, who has been infinitely more reliable than either Fayson/Cooper and looks to be a MUCH better player than the two even though he wasn't nearly as highly touted as a recruit. But given the amount of knowledge you've demonstrated about the team you're attempting to argue about I wouldn't expect you to know who ACTUALLY is and is not good on the team. But enjoy your recruiting rankings from 3 years ago, those things are never wrongThe bottom line is that the talent difference in the defenses of the teams Tebow is playing vs. the talent difference of the teams Brennan is facing is farrrrrrrrr greater than the talent difference in Florida's O-line/WRs compared to Hawaii's, especially when you consider how much time Florida's WRs missed.
Well, I don't even know what to say to that because you're likely the only person in the country who thinks it. That includes Urban Meyer and most likely even the mothers of the guys who sit behind Tebow. Tim Tebow IS that offense. The whole thing. If Chris Leak was leading that offense again this year (#1 recruit remember Mr. Recruitnik) they would be struggling to break .500.Please explain to me how in the world you gathered that I drafted Roethlisberger in my ROOKIE draft in his 4th year in the league. Breathe, read, THEN respond.
You think that the Heisman mechanism actually FAVORS a sophomore on a 3-loss team. I would be careful about questioning someone's credibility on the topic lest yours be questioned in turn.
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
I'm sorry, I was under the impression that we were talking about Florida. Next time, I'll make sure to share all my knowledge of Troy with you when we're discussing how much talent Florida has.I failed to notice any statistics relevant to your argument about Brennan either. I could sit here and share all of Tebow's absurd numbers and statistics this year, but everyone already knows about that. All you've put forward is this ridiculous notion that Florida would be 9-3 with any QB and Hawaii would be 3-9 without Brennan even though they already went 2-0 in two games without him. I, as well as everyone else who has seen a lot of the team at hand, has made it very clear how absurd the notion that Florida would do just as well with any QB is. But, here are some numbers.Hawaii is 2-0 without Colt Brennan.Tyler Graunke has 118 attempts this year, enough to draw some conclusions from. Here is how he compares to Brennan in the same system, with the same WRs, and the same O-line:Brennan completed 71% of his passes. Graunke completed 65%.Brennan averaged 8.84 yards per attempt. Graunke averaged 9.25 yards per attempt.Brennan threw a touchdown once in every 12.4 attempts. Graunke threw a touchdown once in every 13.1 attempts.Brennan's QB rating was 166.31. Graunke's QB rating was 159.68.Graunke also ran for touchdowns more often per time played than Brennan did.Hawaii is already 2-0 with Graunke, so your argument basically boils down to the difference between going 10-0 and 1-9 in those other 10 games is those extremely small differences in Brennan and Graunke's numbers. Yeah, good luck convincing anyone on the planet of that.And let's not forget that when Brennan got hurt in the Utah State game each QB played a half and Graunke VASTLY outperformed Brennan, almost tripling his YPA and quadrupling his touchdowns. One might wonder how much closer that game might've been if Brennan DIDN'T leave the game.Cam Newton didn't have nearly enough attempts to make a comparison with Tebow so we have only conjecture from those that have seen the team most to work with, which is why that's what I focused on.But, since you want the actual numbers Newton threw passes only against Western Kentucky, Vanderbilt, and Florida Atlantic. Here is how they compare:Tebow completed 68.5% of his passes. Newton completed 50%.Tebow averaged 9.88 yards per attempt. Newton averaged 4.00 yards per attempt.Tebow threw a touchdown once in every 10.9 attempts. Newton never threw a touchdown.Tebow's QB rating was 177.85. Newton's QB rating was 83.60.Again, Newton's attempts are far too low to actually draw any conclusions from, but anyone that's seen quite a bit of Florida football agrees that there would be a huge dropoff from Tebow to player X.Meanwhile, Graunke certainly has enough attempts for us to see that the dropoff from Brennan to the next guy is certainly nowhere near enough to go from 10-0 to 1-9, and statistically isn't really a dropoff at all.
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chasyone
Footballguy
Its not Tebow's fault he went to Florida while Colt chose Hawaii. If Colt wanted to play a tough schedule and a chance to win the Heisman sounds like to me he should of chose another school. He is from California. He just went to Hawaii to put up stats and get drafted high. Thats good for him and Im sure he will get drafted higher than Tebow but he doesnt have a National Championship or a Heisman to take to the pros.TEBOW WINS IT EASY!Brennan will finish 3rd or 4th.
ConstruxBoy
Kate's Daddy
My list:
1) Tebow
2) McFadden
3) Dixon
4) Brennan
5) K Smith
1) Tebow
2) McFadden
3) Dixon
4) Brennan
5) K Smith
The Sandman
Footballguy
There is one name that fails to be mentioned in this discussion, and quite frankly should be top 3 in the voting.
Nationest most efficient passer, and he happens to have also just demolished the Freshman record for TDS in a season, and his team would be #1 in the country today by a mile, if he didnt get hurt on the first play from scrimmage 2 weeks ago.
Im not going to mention the name, but those who watch college football should know who Im talking about.
His credentials
1, Freshman who led his team to a 11-2 mark, #3 in the polls today, and will be #2, or looking for a split NC after their bowl.
2. Nations Top passer with a 180 rating
3. Topped Freshman record for TDs in a season with 34, while only throwing 7 picks, and sitting out the 4th quarter of several blow out games, and missed another complete game, outside 1 play when he left with a concusion.
4. Just led his team to a blowout victory in their Championship game, vs teh #1 team in the country.
Nationest most efficient passer, and he happens to have also just demolished the Freshman record for TDS in a season, and his team would be #1 in the country today by a mile, if he didnt get hurt on the first play from scrimmage 2 weeks ago.
Im not going to mention the name, but those who watch college football should know who Im talking about.
His credentials
1, Freshman who led his team to a 11-2 mark, #3 in the polls today, and will be #2, or looking for a split NC after their bowl.
2. Nations Top passer with a 180 rating
3. Topped Freshman record for TDs in a season with 34, while only throwing 7 picks, and sitting out the 4th quarter of several blow out games, and missed another complete game, outside 1 play when he left with a concusion.
4. Just led his team to a blowout victory in their Championship game, vs teh #1 team in the country.
Re-read my post. I was only going by what was done on the field. I just said that I think his injury what will prevent him from getting the Heisman. Based on what they did on the field, I think Brennan deserves the Heisman, though he will unlikely get it.
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
Bradford definitely deserves to be more in the mix than he is. But it doesn't matter all that much because it wouldn't be enough to win it, and 2nd-5th place don't really matter here.
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The Sandman
Footballguy
Never said he should win it, but he isnt even being discussed.
You keep mentioning the fact that he's a Freshman as if that's a positive. First off, in the voters eyes, it's a negative. It shouldn't be, but it is. Even in an ideal world, though, it should be neither a positive or a negative. The fact that he broke Freshman marks is impressive, for a freshman, but not for a regular player of indeterminate class. If QB1 had the best freshman season in history, and QB2 had a season that wasn't in the top 10 all-time for a Senior, but QB1 had 3000 yards and 30 scores while QB2 had 3500 yards and 40 scores, and everything else was equal, QB1 shouldn't be in the discussion. Where a player ranks among his class doesn't matter. Where he ranks among the other players that season is all that does.Bradford's a nice player, but the Heisman is supposed to go to the most outstanding player in college football. I can see an argument for that being Tebow, or McFadden, or Pat White, or Glen Dorsey, or Kevin Smith, or Colt Brennan, or Michael Crabtree, or even Mike Hart, but I don't think anyone can say with a straight face that Bradford is the most outstanding player in college football. He might be the fifth most outstanding player in college football, but unless someone honestly believes that he's the most outstanding, I don't see how he belongs in the discussion. Even you acknowledge that he's not the most outstanding. You're basically saying that you think Bradford should be getting more 5th place votes than he's receiving.Awesome freshman season, bettered only by Crabtree's. OSU has to be extremely happy to have him for another 2 years, at least. Doesn't deserve to be in the Heisman discussion, though.The Sandman said:
Mik789fl
Footballguy
The joke will be on the teams that draft Rice and Hart before Smith.And I always laugh at those that use the argument that a player "did it" against lousy or inferior competition,please,get off your BCS school mentality. Why won't the powers that be go for a playoff? They're scared to death of a Boise St making a run at the title and destroying their myth of superiority. They can't come to grips that there are talented players at "other" schools.Knightro said:Fallerjw said:I would just like him to be there in NYC on Saturday, especially since the Joke Walker voters completely snubbed him but putting Ray Rice and Mike Hart in there this year.
AllVolUT
Footballguy
I agree as well.Signed,Ryan Leaf
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
KyleBasa said:
41 TDs (23 passing, 17 rushing, 1 receiving)2nd QB to amass 3,000 yards passing/1,000 yards rushing (1st was VY)Taken a perennial loser to 2 bowl games in 2 seasonsJust saying
Kai's Hero
Footballguy
Yea and I wonder what record this years Florida team
would have had in the Pac-10 
.... 4-5 if they were lucky. (Losses to SC, Arizona St, Oregon, Oregon St, and an upset loss to either Cal or UCLA) Ha. UF would have had one loss in the Pac 10. As usual the Pac 10 shows that everyone but USC is a pretender.Yea and I wonder what record this years Florida team.... 4-5 if they were lucky. (Losses to SC, Arizona St, Oregon, Oregon St, and an upset loss to either Cal or UCLA)
Texas does not count?K. Smith 27 149 5.5 2 36
yellowdog
Footballguy
Please define "much better" before I agree to any wager. McFadden might be able to compete.
oneohh
Footballguy
Not sure if this has been said already but if you give Tebow the award you are essentially saying that his season is better than any sophomore to ever play. Go take a look at Herschel Walker's 1981 season and tell me Tebow deserves the award. You might not agree with the precedent the NCAA has set for this award, but it exists none-the-less.
yellowdog
Footballguy
Marcus Allen had a decent year in 1981.
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