Hillary Clinton: “Don’t let anybody tell you that it's corporation (1 Viewer)

[timschochet]

Is this where Tim begins the "I am not voting for Hillary Shtick" while defending her every step of the way?

Nope. Right now I will likely vote for her. I like her a lot. If the Republicans put up a moderate guy who disavows the Tea Party, I might consider otherwise . But as things stand, count me in for Hillary.

 

[jon_mx]

But Ivan, she was right about the vast right wing conspiracy in a sense. It wasn't exactly a conspiracy, but the right had been attacking her and her husband for years, not over policy, but over unproven stuff: Whitewater, the Travel Office, the FBI Files, drug smuggling into Mina, Arkansas, the death of Vince Foster, Bill raping one woman and molesting two more. They took Hillary's best friend and stuck her in jail for two years because she refused to testify that Hillary was a criminal. The Paula Jones lawsuit was paid for and promoted by conservative groups, and this lawsuit was used by Congress to finally catch Bill Clinton in a lie over a private affair- one which must have mortified Hillary because although she knew her husband was a womanizer, how embarrassing that it be revealed in public in that way.

So of course she lashed out finally and said what was only the truth- that the attacks upon her husband and herself (Hillary was accused of murder on nearly a daily basis) were unscrupulous and shameful, and at the time I thought she was right to do it, and sympathized with her, and still do. So if that is your main reason for finding her a despicable human being, then I really disagree.

Tim, look at that video.

None of it being true??? This quote was 10 days after Drudge broke the story of Lewinski. The quote was in direct response to all the rumors going on about Clinton and his lying under oath about it. That was absolutely true and her blaming it on a vast right-wing conspiracy is bull####. Of course there is left-wing and right-wing crap going on all the time (you only ever seem to notice the right-wing crap), but Hillary was using the phrase in the context of the Lewinsky scandal.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Is this where Tim begins the "I am not voting for Hillary Shtick" while defending her every step of the way?

Seems that way.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Is this where Tim begins the "I am not voting for Hillary Shtick" while defending her every step of the way?

Nope. Right now I will likely vote for her. I like her a lot. If the Republicans put up a moderate guy who disavows the Tea Party, I might consider otherwise . But as things stand, count me in for Hillary.

Oh, never mind. This has the potential to be an even bigger trainwreck.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

But Ivan, she was right about the vast right wing conspiracy in a sense. It wasn't exactly a conspiracy, but the right had been attacking her and her husband for years, not over policy, but over unproven stuff: Whitewater, the Travel Office, the FBI Files, drug smuggling into Mina, Arkansas, the death of Vince Foster, Bill raping one woman and molesting two more. They took Hillary's best friend and stuck her in jail for two years because she refused to testify that Hillary was a criminal. The Paula Jones lawsuit was paid for and promoted by conservative groups, and this lawsuit was used by Congress to finally catch Bill Clinton in a lie over a private affair- one which must have mortified Hillary because although she knew her husband was a womanizer, how embarrassing that it be revealed in public in that way.

So of course she lashed out finally and said what was only the truth- that the attacks upon her husband and herself (Hillary was accused of murder on nearly a daily basis) were unscrupulous and shameful, and at the time I thought she was right to do it, and sympathized with her, and still do. So if that is your main reason for finding her a despicable human being, then I really disagree.

Tim, look at that video.

Tim, when you get home or free elsewhere watch it and then comment.

1. The fakest accent you ever heard. I only point that out to indicate what a faker she is. She was from a rich northern Chicago suburb.

2. The lying is rampant in that interview and I have no idea how you take that person there and then suddenly transform her into a pillar of integrity years later. It's the same woman using the same ploys.

3. A LOT of it was true, probably not worth detailing here, maybe in another thread.

 

[jonessed]

But Ivan, she was right about the vast right wing conspiracy in a sense. It wasn't exactly a conspiracy, but the right had been attacking her and her husband for years, not over policy, but over unproven stuff: Whitewater, the Travel Office, the FBI Files, drug smuggling into Mina, Arkansas, the death of Vince Foster, Bill raping one woman and molesting two more. They took Hillary's best friend and stuck her in jail for two years because she refused to testify that Hillary was a criminal. The Paula Jones lawsuit was paid for and promoted by conservative groups, and this lawsuit was used by Congress to finally catch Bill Clinton in a lie over a private affair- one which must have mortified Hillary because although she knew her husband was a womanizer, how embarrassing that it be revealed in public in that way.

So of course she lashed out finally and said what was only the truth- that the attacks upon her husband and herself (Hillary was accused of murder on nearly a daily basis) were unscrupulous and shameful, and at the time I thought she was right to do it, and sympathized with her, and still do. So if that is your main reason for finding her a despicable human being, then I really disagree.

And yet she knew that the people she was attacking were telling the truth while she knew that she was lying.

No just the opposite. She was talking about the overall accusations, not just the latest one, and most of them were bogus and she was right to say so. That this latest charge, whether true or not, was made in the context of a Congressional investigation was disgraceful, and she was right to say that as well. Finally, when she gave that interview, a few days after her husband publicly denied ever having sex with Lewinsky, Hillary might not have known that was false, none of his top aides did.

 

[timschochet]

Is this where Tim begins the "I am not voting for Hillary Shtick" while defending her every step of the way?

Nope. Right now I will likely vote for her. I like her a lot. If the Republicans put up a moderate guy who disavows the Tea Party, I might consider otherwise . But as things stand, count me in for Hillary.

Oh, never mind. This has the potential to be an even bigger trainwreck.

why not? She's a centrist. she's strong on foreign policy . She's heavily tied to business . She is Establishment, the farthest thing from a populist. She's pro free trade. She's socially liberal. She's pretty much everything I want in a candidate.

 

[humpback]

And IIRC you are on record saying essentially that you despise Hillary

This part is exactly right. Based entirely on her politics, I should probably be supporting her. Likewise, I should have supported her over Obama. But unlike Obama and folks like Joe Biden, she is a disgraceful human being who has absolutely no business holding elected office. I don't agree with all of Obama's political decisions, and I still think he's probably quite a bit more liberal than the way he's governed, but I think he's basically a good guy overall. Hillary is both personally vile and professionally incompetent. I lose quite a bit of respect for people who actively pull for her, which is something I honestly don't think I can say about any other major political figure.

In a nutshell, if you supported Obama even in part because you thought it was time for somebody to bring a little integrity and honesty to government -- and don't tell me that that wasn't a big part of his appeal -- then shame on you if you support Hillary Clinton. Just be honest and say that you're voting for the Blue Team no matter what and making up your justification later.

You must be a lot of fun at parties when people ask your opinion of Hillary or of those who support her.

These parties where people ask you your opinion of Hillary or of those who support her must be a lot of fun.

 

[Boston]

Is this where Tim begins the "I am not voting for Hillary Shtick" while defending her every step of the way?

Nope. Right now I will likely vote for her. I like her a lot. If the Republicans put up a moderate guy who disavows the Tea Party, I might consider otherwise . But as things stand, count me in for Hillary.

Has Hillary disavowed the George Soros/movon wing of the dem party?

 

[squistion]

And IIRC you are on record saying essentially that you despise Hillary

This part is exactly right. Based entirely on her politics, I should probably be supporting her. Likewise, I should have supported her over Obama. But unlike Obama and folks like Joe Biden, she is a disgraceful human being who has absolutely no business holding elected office. I don't agree with all of Obama's political decisions, and I still think he's probably quite a bit more liberal than the way he's governed, but I think he's basically a good guy overall. Hillary is both personally vile and professionally incompetent. I lose quite a bit of respect for people who actively pull for her, which is something I honestly don't think I can say about any other major political figure.

In a nutshell, if you supported Obama even in part because you thought it was time for somebody to bring a little integrity and honesty to government -- and don't tell me that that wasn't a big part of his appeal -- then shame on you if you support Hillary Clinton. Just be honest and say that you're voting for the Blue Team no matter what and making up your justification later.

You must be a lot of fun at parties when people ask your opinion of Hillary or of those who support her.

These parties where people ask you your opinion of Hillary or of those who support her must be a lot of fun.

Actually they are when you are not dealing with someone who goes on an over-the-top emotional and irrational rant.

 

[timschochet]

Is this where Tim begins the "I am not voting for Hillary Shtick" while defending her every step of the way?

Nope. Right now I will likely vote for her. I like her a lot. If the Republicans put up a moderate guy who disavows the Tea Party, I might consider otherwise . But as things stand, count me in for Hillary.

Has Hillary disavowed the George Soros/movon wing of the dem party?

i hope not. Don't know about move on, but I like George Soros a lot. A true hero in my book.

 

[jon_mx]

Is this where Tim begins the "I am not voting for Hillary Shtick" while defending her every step of the way?

Nope. Right now I will likely vote for her. I like her a lot. If the Republicans put up a moderate guy who disavows the Tea Party, I might consider otherwise . But as things stand, count me in for Hillary.

Has Hillary disavowed the George Soros/movon wing of the dem party?

i hope not. Don't know about move on, but I like George Soros a lot. A true hero in my book.

It just amazes me how you can be so appalled by the tactics from the right but yet embrace the same tactics from the left. It gives you zero credibility on the issue.

 

[Stinger Ray]

Is this where Tim begins the "I am not voting for Hillary Shtick" while defending her every step of the way?

Nope. Right now I will likely vote for her. I like her a lot. If the Republicans put up a moderate guy who disavows the Tea Party, I might consider otherwise . But as things stand, count me in for Hillary.

Has Hillary disavowed the George Soros/movon wing of the dem party?

i hope not. Don't know about move on, but I like George Soros a lot. A true hero in my book.

 

[timschochet]

Is this where Tim begins the "I am not voting for Hillary Shtick" while defending her every step of the way?

Nope. Right now I will likely vote for her. I like her a lot. If the Republicans put up a moderate guy who disavows the Tea Party, I might consider otherwise . But as things stand, count me in for Hillary.

Has Hillary disavowed the George Soros/movon wing of the dem party?

i hope not. Don't know about move on, but I like George Soros a lot. A true hero in my book.

It just amazes me how you can be so appalled by the tactics from the right but yet embrace the same tactics from the left. It gives you zero credibility on the issue.

can you be a little more specific? What tactics am I embracing?

 

[Boston]

Is this where Tim begins the "I am not voting for Hillary Shtick" while defending her every step of the way?

Nope. Right now I will likely vote for her. I like her a lot. If the Republicans put up a moderate guy who disavows the Tea Party, I might consider otherwise . But as things stand, count me in for Hillary.

Has Hillary disavowed the George Soros/movon wing of the dem party?

i hope not. Don't know about move on, but I like George Soros a lot. A true hero in my book.

It just amazes me how you can be so appalled by the tactics from the right but yet embrace the same tactics from the left. It gives you zero credibility on the issue.

Amazing double-standard...I'm sure he thinks the Koch Brothers are the devil as well...

 

[Widbil83]

Is this where Tim begins the "I am not voting for Hillary Shtick" while defending her every step of the way?

Nope. Right now I will likely vote for her. I like her a lot. If the Republicans put up a moderate guy who disavows the Tea Party, I might consider otherwise . But as things stand, count me in for Hillary.

Has Hillary disavowed the George Soros/movon wing of the dem party?

i hope not. Don't know about move on, but I like George Soros a lot. A true hero in my book.

I mean this has to be 100% shtick at this point, right???

 

[timschochet]

What's amazing to ME is that you guys accuse me of a double standard without paying any attention, apparently to what I've written. I have nothing against the Koch brothers or Sheldon Adelson or any other rich person who has spent money trying to influence our political system. That is their right and I applaud them for it. You're confusing me with some populist.

I happen to really admire Soros,not for his ties to the Democratic Party, but for how he has helped to build capitalism in Eastern Europe after the Cold War. His achievements are akin to George Marshall after World War II, and places him on my short list of great contemporary Anericans.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

What's amazing to ME is that you guys accuse me of a double standard without paying any attention, apparently to what I've written. I have nothing against the Koch brothers or Sheldon Adelson or any other rich person who has spent money trying to influence our political system. That is their right and I applaud them for it. You're confusing me with some populist.

I happen to really admire Soros,not for his ties to the Democratic Party, but for how he has helped to build capitalism in Eastern Europe after the Cold War. His achievements are akin to George Marshall after World War II, and places him on my short list of great contemporary Anericans.

Ok, Soros does not belong in the same sentence as George Marshall, sorry.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

What's amazing to ME is that you guys accuse me of a double standard without paying any attention, apparently to what I've written. I have nothing against the Koch brothers or Sheldon Adelson or any other rich person who has spent money trying to influence our political system. That is their right and I applaud them for it. You're confusing me with some populist.

I happen to really admire Soros,not for his ties to the Democratic Party, but for how he has helped to build capitalism in Eastern Europe after the Cold War. His achievements are akin to George Marshall after World War II, and places him on my short list of great contemporary Anericans.

You know, actually you're right, you've been consistent on this.

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=616034&p=13627385

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=616613&p=13641789

 

[jon_mx]

Is this where Tim begins the "I am not voting for Hillary Shtick" while defending her every step of the way?

Nope. Right now I will likely vote for her. I like her a lot. If the Republicans put up a moderate guy who disavows the Tea Party, I might consider otherwise . But as things stand, count me in for Hillary.

Has Hillary disavowed the George Soros/movon wing of the dem party?

i hope not. Don't know about move on, but I like George Soros a lot. A true hero in my book.

It just amazes me how you can be so appalled by the tactics from the right but yet embrace the same tactics from the left. It gives you zero credibility on the issue.

can you be a little more specific? What tactics am I embracing?

For instance, you hate right-wing 527 type organizations like the Swift-boaters were, but Sorro's gave around $40 million to these same type of 527 organizations on the left to run smear campaigns to try to beat Bush.

 

[timschochet]

What's amazing to ME is that you guys accuse me of a double standard without paying any attention, apparently to what I've written. I have nothing against the Koch brothers or Sheldon Adelson or any other rich person who has spent money trying to influence our political system. That is their right and I applaud them for it. You're confusing me with some populist.

I happen to really admire Soros,not for his ties to the Democratic Party, but for how he has helped to build capitalism in Eastern Europe after the Cold War. His achievements are akin to George Marshall after World War II, and places him on my short list of great contemporary Anericans.

Ok, Soros does not belong in the same sentence as George Marshall, sorry.

really? Have you read anything about what he did for Hungary, Romania, and some of their neighbors? Or how he has given away, personally, 7 billion dollars to fight poverty and promote democracy in Eastern Europe and Africa? You might want to rethink that. This guy is a giant.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

What's amazing to ME is that you guys accuse me of a double standard without paying any attention, apparently to what I've written. I have nothing against the Koch brothers or Sheldon Adelson or any other rich person who has spent money trying to influence our political system. That is their right and I applaud them for it. You're confusing me with some populist.

I happen to really admire Soros,not for his ties to the Democratic Party, but for how he has helped to build capitalism in Eastern Europe after the Cold War. His achievements are akin to George Marshall after World War II, and places him on my short list of great contemporary Anericans.

Ok, Soros does not belong in the same sentence as George Marshall, sorry.

really? Have you read anything about what he did for Hungary, Romania, and some of their neighbors? Or how he has given away, personally, 7 billion dollars to fight poverty and promote democracy in Eastern Europe and Africa? You might want to rethink that. This guy is a giant.

I admit to not being fully informed but he's not Marshall no matter what he did,

 

[timschochet]

What's amazing to ME is that you guys accuse me of a double standard without paying any attention, apparently to what I've written. I have nothing against the Koch brothers or Sheldon Adelson or any other rich person who has spent money trying to influence our political system. That is their right and I applaud them for it. You're confusing me with some populist.

I happen to really admire Soros,not for his ties to the Democratic Party, but for how he has helped to build capitalism in Eastern Europe after the Cold War. His achievements are akin to George Marshall after World War II, and places him on my short list of great contemporary Anericans.

Ok, Soros does not belong in the same sentence as George Marshall, sorry.

really? Have you read anything about what he did for Hungary, Romania, and some of their neighbors? Or how he has given away, personally, 7 billion dollars to fight poverty and promote democracy in Eastern Europe and Africa? You might want to rethink that. This guy is a giant.

I admit to not being fully informed but he's not Marshall no matter what he did,

he didn't win World War II, but my comparison was to Marshall's accomplishments after World War II. And by the way, just like Soros, Marshall was viciously attacked by conservatives at the time.

 

[cubd8]

Is this where Tim begins the "I am not voting for Hillary Shtick" while defending her every step of the way?

Nope. Right now I will likely vote for her. I like her a lot. If the Republicans put up a moderate guy who disavows the Tea Party, I might consider otherwise . But as things stand, count me in for Hillary.

Oh, never mind. This has the potential to be an even bigger trainwreck.

why not? She's a centrist. she's strong on foreign policy . She's heavily tied to business . She is Establishment, the farthest thing from a populist. She's pro free trade. She's socially liberal.She's pretty much everything I want in a candidate.

Why isn't she running as a Republican?

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

What's amazing to ME is that you guys accuse me of a double standard without paying any attention, apparently to what I've written. I have nothing against the Koch brothers or Sheldon Adelson or any other rich person who has spent money trying to influence our political system. That is their right and I applaud them for it. You're confusing me with some populist.

I happen to really admire Soros,not for his ties to the Democratic Party, but for how he has helped to build capitalism in Eastern Europe after the Cold War. His achievements are akin to George Marshall after World War II, and places him on my short list of great contemporary Anericans.

Ok, Soros does not belong in the same sentence as George Marshall, sorry.

really? Have you read anything about what he did for Hungary, Romania, and some of their neighbors? Or how he has given away, personally, 7 billion dollars to fight poverty and promote democracy in Eastern Europe and Africa? You might want to rethink that. This guy is a giant.

I admit to not being fully informed but he's not Marshall no matter what he did,

he didn't win World War II, but my comparison was to Marshall's accomplishments after World War II. And by the way, just like Soros, Marshall was viciously attacked by conservatives at the time.

Marshall rebuilt Europe. Soros' private contributions have been huge but they are not on the same level. But I get the point in terms of development.

I think where Soros most especially fails in comparison though is in his involvement in the political realm. He crosses the line from philanthropy and development into outright partisanship, Marshall was nothing like that. I don't have a problem with Soros either, but some groups he has formed, like MoveOn, are the very picture of the breakdown of American journalism and politics. I say I don't have a problem with it because he has every right to do it (like the Koch Bros) but again he's no Marshall.

 

[timschochet]

Is this where Tim begins the "I am not voting for Hillary Shtick" while defending her every step of the way?

Nope. Right now I will likely vote for her. I like her a lot. If the Republicans put up a moderate guy who disavows the Tea Party, I might consider otherwise . But as things stand, count me in for Hillary.

Has Hillary disavowed the George Soros/movon wing of the dem party?

i hope not. Don't know about move on, but I like George Soros a lot. A true hero in my book.

It just amazes me how you can be so appalled by the tactics from the right but yet embrace the same tactics from the left. It gives you zero credibility on the issue.

can you be a little more specific? What tactics am I embracing?

For instance, you hate right-wing 527 type organizations like the Swift-boaters were, but Sorro's gave around $40 million to these same type of 527 organizations on the left to run smear campaigns to try to beat Bush.

the Swift Boaters lied, and I thought it was shameful to disgrace a veteran like that. I think Move On called General Petraeus a coward, and that was disgraceful as well . But I don't believe that either the Koch brothers or George Soros do anything more than contribute money to some of these groups; they don't plan the campaigns. You can criticize them for not paying close enough attention or endorsing sleaziness, but I haven't. As Saints notes (thanks, BTW) I have been very consistent in not critiquing these types of donors. So, I'm still waiting to learn where my double standard is.

 

[timschochet]

Is this where Tim begins the "I am not voting for Hillary Shtick" while defending her every step of the way?

Nope. Right now I will likely vote for her. I like her a lot. If the Republicans put up a moderate guy who disavows the Tea Party, I might consider otherwise . But as things stand, count me in for Hillary.

Oh, never mind. This has the potential to be an even bigger trainwreck.

why not? She's a centrist. she's strong on foreign policy . She's heavily tied to business . She is Establishment, the farthest thing from a populist. She's pro free trade. She's socially liberal.She's pretty much everything I want in a candidate.

Why isn't she running as a Republican?

because she'd never be nominated. But I'd love it.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

the Swift Boaters lied, and I thought it was shameful to disgrace a veteran like that.

But you're totally cool with Hillary Clinton lying about Lewinsky et. al.

 

[timschochet]

the Swift Boaters lied, and I thought it was shameful to disgrace a veteran like that.

But you're totally cool with Hillary Clinton lying about Lewinsky et. al.

im not at all sure she'd lied about Lewinsky. And I'm still not aware of when she lied about anything else.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

the Swift Boaters lied, and I thought it was shameful to disgrace a veteran like that.

But you're totally cool with Hillary Clinton lying about Lewinsky et. al.

im not at all sure she'd lied about Lewinsky. And I'm still not aware of when she lied about anything else.

Vast right-wing conspiracy.

 

[Stinger Ray]

the Swift Boaters lied, and I thought it was shameful to disgrace a veteran like that.

But you're totally cool with Hillary Clinton lying about Lewinsky et. al.

im not at all sure she'd lied about Lewinsky. And I'm still not aware of when she lied about anything else.

unreal!

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

the Swift Boaters lied, and I thought it was shameful to disgrace a veteran like that.

But you're totally cool with Hillary Clinton lying about Lewinsky et. al.

im not at all sure she'd lied about Lewinsky. And I'm still not aware of when she lied about anything else.

She definitely lied about Gennifer Flowers. You can start there. That was a 12 year relationship with Bill Clinton and Hillary was 100% in on that. She was putting on a fake accent there, why would you believe a word she said?

The Rose law firm files showing up in a White House closet and being pulled out by some random staffer accidentally - now that was funny, she was caught dead to rights on that.

The Lewinsky thing - lord, Paula Jones forced Bill Clinton into settling that suit, in which she claimed he walked in on her pants down, and he was disbarred in two jurisdictions for lying and suborning perjury. It's one thing to say it's just misbehavior (mis-demeanor) and not worth turning the country over for, but don't pretend like they weren't lieing.

All of this is small potatoes, tiny fingerling, shoestring fries in fact, but they are just examples of the lying in full force about small things which only leads one to wonder about the big things.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Going from memory, at one point Hillary was about 60% to win the Democratic nomination on InTrade while Obama and a bunch of others were mostly under 10%.

I just googled it and found that in January 2008, Hillary was at 67% and Obama was at 32%. So if my memory is at all correct (which it may not be), the ~60-10 ratio must have been from before that.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Is this where Tim begins the "I am not voting for Hillary Shtick" while defending her every step of the way?

Nope. Right now I will likely vote for her. I like her a lot. If the Republicans put up a moderate guy who disavows the Tea Party, I might consider otherwise . But as things stand, count me in for Hillary.

Oh, never mind. This has the potential to be an even bigger trainwreck.

why not? She's a centrist. she's strong on foreign policy . She's heavily tied to business . She is Establishment, the farthest thing from a populist. She's pro free trade. She's socially liberal.She's pretty much everything I want in a candidate.

Why isn't she running as a Republican?

because she'd never be nominated. But I'd love it.

If Hillary could have slept with and married a future GOP star she would have done it. She loves the power.

 

[timschochet]

the Swift Boaters lied, and I thought it was shameful to disgrace a veteran like that.

But you're totally cool with Hillary Clinton lying about Lewinsky et. al.

im not at all sure she'd lied about Lewinsky. And I'm still not aware of when she lied about anything else.

Vast right-wing conspiracy.

didnt I already address this ? It wasn't a lie. I wouldn't have used the word conspiracy, but essentially she was right.

 

[timschochet]

the Swift Boaters lied, and I thought it was shameful to disgrace a veteran like that.

But you're totally cool with Hillary Clinton lying about Lewinsky et. al.

im not at all sure she'd lied about Lewinsky. And I'm still not aware of when she lied about anything else.

She definitely lied about Gennifer Flowers. You can start there. That was a 12 year relationship with Bill Clinton and Hillary was 100% in on that. She was putting on a fake accent there, why would you believe a word she said?

The Rose law firm files showing up in a White House closet and being pulled out by some random staffer accidentally - now that was funny, she was caught dead to rights on that.

The Lewinsky thing - lord, Paula Jones forced Bill Clinton into settling that suit, and he was disbarred in two jurisdictions for lying and suborning perjury. It's one thing to say it's just misbehavior (mis-demeanor) and not worth turning the country over for, but don't pretend like they weren't lieing.

All of this is small potatoes, tiny fingerling, shoestring fries in fact, but they are just examples of the lying in full force about small things which only leads one to wonder about the big things.

no I don't agree with any of this. I don't think she was "in" on Gennifer Flowers. How many wives are in on their husbands cheating around on them? And she didn't lie about Lewinsky, Bill did, Nd for all I know he lied to her as well. And the Rose law firm thing turned out to be nothing. Sorry Saints, I don't think she's proven to be a liar at all.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

the Swift Boaters lied, and I thought it was shameful to disgrace a veteran like that.

But you're totally cool with Hillary Clinton lying about Lewinsky et. al.

im not at all sure she'd lied about Lewinsky. And I'm still not aware of when she lied about anything else.

Vast right-wing conspiracy.

didnt I already address this ? It wasn't a lie. I wouldn't have used the word conspiracy, but essentially she was right.

Yes. You were wrong the first time too.

There was no vast right-wing conspiracy that fabricated the Lewinsky story, and Hillary undoubtedly knew that, or should have known it, at the time. She was lying.

 

[jon_mx]

Is this where Tim begins the "I am not voting for Hillary Shtick" while defending her every step of the way?

Nope. Right now I will likely vote for her. I like her a lot. If the Republicans put up a moderate guy who disavows the Tea Party, I might consider otherwise . But as things stand, count me in for Hillary.

Has Hillary disavowed the George Soros/movon wing of the dem party?

i hope not. Don't know about move on, but I like George Soros a lot. A true hero in my book.

It just amazes me how you can be so appalled by the tactics from the right but yet embrace the same tactics from the left. It gives you zero credibility on the issue.

can you be a little more specific? What tactics am I embracing?

For instance, you hate right-wing 527 type organizations like the Swift-boaters were, but Sorro's gave around $40 million to these same type of 527 organizations on the left to run smear campaigns to try to beat Bush.

the Swift Boaters lied, and I thought it was shameful to disgrace a veteran like that. I think Move On called General Petraeus a coward, and that was disgraceful as well . But I don't believe that either the Koch brothers or George Soros do anything more than contribute money to some of these groups; they don't plan the campaigns. You can criticize them for not paying close enough attention or endorsing sleaziness, but I haven't. As Saints notes (thanks, BTW) I have been very consistent in not critiquing these types of donors.So, I'm still waiting to learn where my double standard is.

I have pointed it out on numerous threads. You have completely different standards for how you respond to things about Fox News, Tea Party, and Republicans vs. MSNBC, Moveon, and Democrats. Democrats twist every rule in the book so Obamacare gets passed, you see no issue. Republicans use tactics to stop and bill, and you throw a hissy fit. Republicans run a campaign base on spun up facts and you throw a hissy fit. Democrats misconstrue facts and its just politics. If I have time I will dig up specific examples, but it is quite common.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

the Swift Boaters lied, and I thought it was shameful to disgrace a veteran like that.

But you're totally cool with Hillary Clinton lying about Lewinsky et. al.

im not at all sure she'd lied about Lewinsky. And I'm still not aware of when she lied about anything else.

She definitely lied about Gennifer Flowers. You can start there. That was a 12 year relationship with Bill Clinton and Hillary was 100% in on that. She was putting on a fake accent there, why would you believe a word she said?

The Rose law firm files showing up in a White House closet and being pulled out by some random staffer accidentally - now that was funny, she was caught dead to rights on that.

The Lewinsky thing - lord, Paula Jones forced Bill Clinton into settling that suit, and he was disbarred in two jurisdictions for lying and suborning perjury. It's one thing to say it's just misbehavior (mis-demeanor) and not worth turning the country over for, but don't pretend like they weren't lieing.

All of this is small potatoes, tiny fingerling, shoestring fries in fact, but they are just examples of the lying in full force about small things which only leads one to wonder about the big things.

no I don't agree with any of this. I don't think she was "in" on Gennifer Flowers. How many wives are in on their husbands cheating around on them? And she didn't lie about Lewinsky, Bill did, Nd for all I know he lied to her as well. And the Rose law firm thing turned out to be nothing. Sorry Saints, I don't think she's proven to be a liar at all.

Are you kidding? He had a 12 year affair in the same small city - you really are going to maintain that Hillary wasn't complicit in it? And then went on tv to accuse the media and (Democratic) political opponents? You are really stretching your own delusion meter there.

 

[timschochet]

the Swift Boaters lied, and I thought it was shameful to disgrace a veteran like that.

But you're totally cool with Hillary Clinton lying about Lewinsky et. al.

im not at all sure she'd lied about Lewinsky. And I'm still not aware of when she lied about anything else.

Vast right-wing conspiracy.

didnt I already address this ? It wasn't a lie. I wouldn't have used the word conspiracy, but essentially she was right.

Yes. You were wrong the first time too.

There was no vast right-wing conspiracy that fabricated the Lewinsky story, and Hillary undoubtedly knew that, or should have known it, at the time. She was lying.

i think you're being overly simplistic and I disagree. While it's true that the right wing did not fabricate the Lewinsky story, they certainly fabricated everything that led up to it (a Congressional investigation, Ken Starr, and the Paula Jones lawsuit) and it was right for Hillary to mention it. Also I have no idea if at the time she said that she knew the truth about Lewinsky- she later said she did not, and I have no reason to disbelieve her.

 

[humpback]

And IIRC you are on record saying essentially that you despise Hillary

This part is exactly right. Based entirely on her politics, I should probably be supporting her. Likewise, I should have supported her over Obama. But unlike Obama and folks like Joe Biden, she is a disgraceful human being who has absolutely no business holding elected office. I don't agree with all of Obama's political decisions, and I still think he's probably quite a bit more liberal than the way he's governed, but I think he's basically a good guy overall. Hillary is both personally vile and professionally incompetent. I lose quite a bit of respect for people who actively pull for her, which is something I honestly don't think I can say about any other major political figure.

In a nutshell, if you supported Obama even in part because you thought it was time for somebody to bring a little integrity and honesty to government -- and don't tell me that that wasn't a big part of his appeal -- then shame on you if you support Hillary Clinton. Just be honest and say that you're voting for the Blue Team no matter what and making up your justification later.

You must be a lot of fun at parties when people ask your opinion of Hillary or of those who support her.

These parties where people ask you your opinion of Hillary or of those who support her must be a lot of fun.

Actually they are when you are not dealing with someone who goes on an over-the-top emotional and irrational rant.

Is there cake? I could be persuaded if there's cake....

 

[timschochet]

Is this where Tim begins the "I am not voting for Hillary Shtick" while defending her every step of the way?

Nope. Right now I will likely vote for her. I like her a lot. If the Republicans put up a moderate guy who disavows the Tea Party, I might consider otherwise . But as things stand, count me in for Hillary.

Has Hillary disavowed the George Soros/movon wing of the dem party?

i hope not. Don't know about move on, but I like George Soros a lot. A true hero in my book.

It just amazes me how you can be so appalled by the tactics from the right but yet embrace the same tactics from the left. It gives you zero credibility on the issue.

can you be a little more specific? What tactics am I embracing?

For instance, you hate right-wing 527 type organizations like the Swift-boaters were, but Sorro's gave around $40 million to these same type of 527 organizations on the left to run smear campaigns to try to beat Bush.

the Swift Boaters lied, and I thought it was shameful to disgrace a veteran like that. I think Move On called General Petraeus a coward, and that was disgraceful as well . But I don't believe that either the Koch brothers or George Soros do anything more than contribute money to some of these groups; they don't plan the campaigns. You can criticize them for not paying close enough attention or endorsing sleaziness, but I haven't. As Saints notes (thanks, BTW) I have been very consistent in not critiquing these types of donors.So, I'm still waiting to learn where my double standard is.

I have pointed it out on numerous threads. You have completely different standards for how you respond to things about Fox News, Tea Party, and Republicans vs. MSNBC, Moveon, and Democrats. Democrats twist every rule in the book so Obamacare gets passed, you see no issue. Republicans use tactics to stop and bill, and you throw a hissy fit. Republicans run a campaign base on spun up facts and you throw a hissy fit. Democrats misconstrue facts and its just politics. If I have time I will dig up specific examples, but it is quite common.

this is your impression and I don't think it's close to the truth. I have been very critical of both political parties when I think it's deserved. If you can't or won't see that, it's on you .

 

[IvanKaramazov]

While it's true that the right wing did not fabricate the Lewinsky story,

Thank you.

Also I have no idea if at the time she said that she knew the truth about Lewinsky- she later said she did not, and I have no reason to disbelieve her.

Oh my.

You're in a for a long 2-10 years.

 

[timschochet]

the Swift Boaters lied, and I thought it was shameful to disgrace a veteran like that.

But you're totally cool with Hillary Clinton lying about Lewinsky et. al.

im not at all sure she'd lied about Lewinsky. And I'm still not aware of when she lied about anything else.

She definitely lied about Gennifer Flowers. You can start there. That was a 12 year relationship with Bill Clinton and Hillary was 100% in on that. She was putting on a fake accent there, why would you believe a word she said?

The Rose law firm files showing up in a White House closet and being pulled out by some random staffer accidentally - now that was funny, she was caught dead to rights on that.

The Lewinsky thing - lord, Paula Jones forced Bill Clinton into settling that suit, and he was disbarred in two jurisdictions for lying and suborning perjury. It's one thing to say it's just misbehavior (mis-demeanor) and not worth turning the country over for, but don't pretend like they weren't lieing.

All of this is small potatoes, tiny fingerling, shoestring fries in fact, but they are just examples of the lying in full force about small things which only leads one to wonder about the big things.

no I don't agree with any of this. I don't think she was "in" on Gennifer Flowers. How many wives are in on their husbands cheating around on them? And she didn't lie about Lewinsky, Bill did, Nd for all I know he lied to her as well. And the Rose law firm thing turned out to be nothing. Sorry Saints, I don't think she's proven to be a liar at all.

Are you kidding? He had a 12 year affair in the same small city - you really are going to maintain that Hillary wasn't complicit in it? And then went on tv to accuse the media and (Democratic) political opponents? You are really stretching your own delusion meter there.

i don't know if it was a 12 year affair. I don't believe Hillary was complicit. She knew Bill was cheating and didn't like it. That makes her no different from millions of other women . I suppose she could have divorced him. But none of this has any bearing on her dishonesty .

 

[timschochet]

While it's true that the right wing did not fabricate the Lewinsky story,

Thank you.

Also I have no idea if at the time she said that she knew the truth about Lewinsky- she later said she did not, and I have no reason to disbelieve her.

Oh my.

You're in a for a long 2-10 years.

seemd to me you're in for a longer 10. Is your visceral dislike of Hillary really because of that one comment? Even if I were to grant it's dishonesty (which I don't) it seems pretty minor for our politicians.

 

[Stinger Ray]

Hillary's List of Lies

http://www.creators.com/opinion/****-morris/hillary-s-list-of-lies.html

http://conservativeamerican.org/the-hillary-clinton-lies-list/

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

the Swift Boaters lied, and I thought it was shameful to disgrace a veteran like that.

But you're totally cool with Hillary Clinton lying about Lewinsky et. al.

im not at all sure she'd lied about Lewinsky. And I'm still not aware of when she lied about anything else.

She definitely lied about Gennifer Flowers. You can start there. That was a 12 year relationship with Bill Clinton and Hillary was 100% in on that. She was putting on a fake accent there, why would you believe a word she said?

The Rose law firm files showing up in a White House closet and being pulled out by some random staffer accidentally - now that was funny, she was caught dead to rights on that.

The Lewinsky thing - lord, Paula Jones forced Bill Clinton into settling that suit, and he was disbarred in two jurisdictions for lying and suborning perjury. It's one thing to say it's just misbehavior (mis-demeanor) and not worth turning the country over for, but don't pretend like they weren't lieing.

All of this is small potatoes, tiny fingerling, shoestring fries in fact, but they are just examples of the lying in full force about small things which only leads one to wonder about the big things.

no I don't agree with any of this. I don't think she was "in" on Gennifer Flowers. How many wives are in on their husbands cheating around on them? And she didn't lie about Lewinsky, Bill did, Nd for all I know he lied to her as well. And the Rose law firm thing turned out to be nothing. Sorry Saints, I don't think she's proven to be a liar at all.

Are you kidding? He had a 12 year affair in the same small city - you really are going to maintain that Hillary wasn't complicit in it? And then went on tv to accuse the media and (Democratic) political opponents? You are really stretching your own delusion meter there.

i don't know if it was a 12 year affair. I don't believe Hillary was complicit. She knew Bill was cheating and didn't like it. That makes her no different from millions of other women . I suppose she could have divorced him. But none of this has any bearing on her dishonesty .

Gennifer Flowers said repeatedly it was 12 years, that it was ongoing, it was intimate, she was basically his full time mistress. Yes, it was 12 years.

And Hillary didn't say that it was going on and she was powerless, she said it was a lie, which it wasn't.

 

[timschochet]

Hillary's List of Lies

http://www.creators.com/opinion/****-morris/hillary-s-list-of-lies.html

http://conservativeamerican.org/the-hillary-clinton-lies-list/

really?

 

[IvanKaramazov]

While it's true that the right wing did not fabricate the Lewinsky story,

Thank you.

Also I have no idea if at the time she said that she knew the truth about Lewinsky- she later said she did not, and I have no reason to disbelieve her.

Oh my.

You're in a for a long 2-10 years.

seemd to me you're in for a longer 10. Is your visceral dislike of Hillary really because of that one comment? Even if I were to grant it's dishonesty (which I don't) it seems pretty minor for our politicians.

No, it's just the easiest one to point to.

 

[Stinger Ray]

Hillary's List of Lies

http://www.creators.com/opinion/****-morris/hillary-s-list-of-lies.html

http://conservativeamerican.org/the-hillary-clinton-lies-list/

really?

http://radaronline.com/photos/bill-clinton-hillary-clinton-secrets-and-lies-gallery/photo/665733/

http://herald-review.com/print-specific/herald-review/letters/hillary-clinton-has-a-long-history-of-lying/article_82db5584-aab3-5a16-9431-71b7714607c7.html