Hockey Parents (1 Viewer)

[ChiefD]

So my 13 year old son is a second year bantam this year.  He was a late starter for hockey - he started skating when he was 9. My wife and I knew absolutely nothing when it comes to hockey - everything we have learned has been from watching him play.

He started because a friend of his took him to a minor league hockey game here in KC when he was 8. Decided he wanted to try it so here we are.

We've had him in the house leagues all the way through, with some travel hockey mixed in the last couple of years. His skill level is basically the top of the house league, and he would make the full travel team if he were to try out. Financially this is not feasible for us to do - not with two other kids in the house and their sports needs.

Our facility has high school and travel high school.  So he will be trying out for one of those teams starting next year as he will be a freshman in high school.

My son is a good player and plays winger.  Despite his late start he is a good skater. Does a lot of things well. Is a great team player in terms of passing the puck, backchecking, hustles his ### off, listens to the coach and does his assignments well. I would say he's not an excellent player - he's not the best on his team but he's making up ground fast.  He works on his shooting and puck skills at home constantly and is working on leg strength and fitness. This kid wants to work at his game.

He's doing cross country this fall to get fit for hockey season. He's also in a growth spurt right now - he's grown about 2 inches since the end of school. If he tracks like his brother he will probably end up around 6' tall by his freshman year next year.

So I'm trying to paint a picture on what type of kid he is. He's been asking lately on whether he might be able to play in college. And that's what I need help with.

I'm not sure how to go about it. He's our only kid that probably could play a sport in college.  We have no illusions that this kid is a D1 player or anything like that. 

This kid also loves fishing. He loves the north - Minnesota and Wisconsin. Our family is considering a move to Wisconsin, but that's a totally different story and unrelated to hockey. When this kid gets out of college he will more than likely have a career that takes him up north.

So anyway, we are thinking for him and his skill level he may be looking at D2 or D3. But not sure how to go about getting his name out there or even what schools make sense for him. I know he has a long way to go in terms of making any kinds of decisions, but the hockey part is something my wife and I can help him with for the next couple of years. We sent him to a futures camp this summer in Waterloo, IA to get him some experience playing in front of a minor league coaching staff. He did very well there and the coaches had nice things to say about his game.

So now what? Does he need to be in travel exclusively? Do we just start emailing schools and see if there might be interest? Not sure what the next steps would be.

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

 

[Jaysus]

With a subject like that, I was expecting the content of the post to be something along the lines of "Why y'all so crazy when your kids are playing?"

 

[gianmarco]

@AcerFC to the courtesy phone.

 

[SWC]

where in big whiskey would you be looking to move take that to the bank bromigo

 

[ChiefD]

With a subject like that, I was expecting the content of the post to be something along the lines of "Why y'all so crazy when your kids are playing?"

Reason #1 why I love hockey: they have beer at the kids games

 

[Fantasy_Freak]

Hockey does not have any D2 programs, D3 are mostly made up of kids that are playing AAA or juniors by the time they are seniors in high school.  Basically a lot of people essentially hire agents which get their kids names out for colleges.  The problem you are facing is the talent level, schools are not looking at kids in high house programs or even travel, they are going to the elite/AAA level games to find kids.  There are opportunities for ACHA which is club hockey, these programs are opportunities to kids to play college hockey but at lower levels compared to D3 hockey.

 

[ChiefD]

where in big whiskey would you be looking to move take that to the bank bromigo

We are looking Rhinelander/Minocqua area. 

 

[rockaction]

So my 13 year old son is a second year bantam this year.  He was a late starter for hockey - he started skating when he was 9. My wife and I knew absolutely nothing when it comes to hockey - everything we have learned has been from watching him play.

He started because a friend of his took him to a minor league hockey game here in KC when he was 8. Decided he wanted to try it so here we are.

We've had him in the house leagues all the way through, with some travel hockey mixed in the last couple of years. His skill level is basically the top of the house league, and he would make the full travel team if he were to try out. Financially this is not feasible for us to do - not with two other kids in the house and their sports needs.

Our facility has high school and travel high school.  So he will be trying out for one of those teams starting next year as he will be a freshman in high school.

My son is a good player and plays winger.  Despite his late start he is a good skater. Does a lot of things well. Is a great team player in terms of passing the puck, backchecking, hustles his ### off, listens to the coach and does his assignments well. I would say he's not an excellent player - he's not the best on his team but he's making up ground fast.  He works on his shooting and puck skills at home constantly and is working on leg strength and fitness. This kid wants to work at his game.

He's doing cross country this fall to get fit for hockey season. He's also in a growth spurt right now - he's grown about 2 inches since the end of school. If he tracks like his brother he will probably end up around 6' tall by his freshman year next year.

So I'm trying to paint a picture on what type of kid he is. He's been asking lately on whether he might be able to play in college. And that's what I need help with.

I'm not sure how to go about it. He's our only kid that probably could play a sport in college.  We have no illusions that this kid is a D1 player or anything like that. 

This kid also loves fishing. He loves the north - Minnesota and Wisconsin. Our family is considering a move to Wisconsin, but that's a totally different story and unrelated to hockey. When this kid gets out of college he will more than likely have a career that takes him up north.

So anyway, we are thinking for him and his skill level he may be looking at D2 or D3. But not sure how to go about getting his name out there or even what schools make sense for him. I know he has a long way to go in terms of making any kinds of decisions, but the hockey part is something my wife and I can help him with for the next couple of years. We sent him to a futures camp this summer in Waterloo, IA to get him some experience playing in front of a minor league coaching staff. He did very well there and the coaches had nice things to say about his game.

So now what? Does he need to be in travel exclusively? Do we just start emailing schools and see if there might be interest? Not sure what the next steps would be.

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

ChiefD, I'd love to help you out as I grew up playing, but the landscape has changed so much. The thing I can tell you is that if you're not playing travel, forget it. Someone I know scored almost fifty goals as a senior in high school, had played travel all his life, and got lightly recruited to DIII, and only then as a favor to connected coaches who were in his corner. And this was CT, which is a hockey state. You have to play elite level, like somebody noted, as an early teen -- and this is as far back as 1991. I can't even imagine now. I'd look into that right away.

There's always walking on at DIII, depending on coach and situation. When there are no scholarships or aid to lose, the coaches can more flexibly shape their team and allow for late bloomers.

Like I said, the landscape I knew was '91, and it was darn nigh impossible then, especially if he wants to relocate to hockey-crazy states (KC being what it is, I can't really imagine the youth programs out there being at a level of Wisconsin or Minnesota or anywhere near anything like that. That's a different level.)

I would urge urgency in place, actually. If it's not affordable (and I saw the cost of skates in 2016. Holy calama####, Batman, so I ain't judging) then perhaps being realistic with him about his path via the high school team is warranted here.

 

[Fantasy_Freak]

Hockey does not have any D2 programs, D3 are mostly made up of kids that are playing AAA or juniors by the time they are seniors in high school.  Basically a lot of people essentially hire agents which get their kids names out for colleges.  The problem you are facing is the talent level, schools are not looking at kids in high house programs or even travel, they are going to the elite/AAA level games to find kids.  There are opportunities for ACHA which is club hockey, these programs are opportunities to kids to play college hockey but at lower levels compared to D3 hockey.

The brother of a teammate of my son plays in an ACHA program at UW Milwaukee, not a big program but gives him the opportunity to play in college.  Some D1 schools do have ACHA (I know Iowa Sate has a program).    

 

[rockaction]

And yeah, @Bill Brasky, @Aaron Rudnicki, and @Getzlaf15to the courtesy phone.

They might know something we certainly don't.

And guys, ChiefD is good peeps, so I "atted" you. I hope you don't mind.

 

[rockaction]

And @Northern Voice. How could I forget the Petes' finest, bro?

 

[SWC]

ahhh muskey country so that is lakeland high school in minocqua and they were 16 and 5 last year while the rhinelander hodags were 12 and 14 i think that lakeland has a pretty nice ice arena and they also have a muskey tournament fundraiser so for you this could be a match made in heaven rhinelander has a pretty nice arena too and both are decent for communities that size that depend on summer tourism the one thing i will say is that lakeland used to have an old iron railroad bridge as you got into the northwoods on 51 where the kids had painted t bird country on it and it was pretty much the coolest welcome to hell sign for visiting teams that may have ever existed in the state but i think it is gone now take that to the bank bromigos 

https://www.wsaw.com/content/news/Iconic-T-Bird-Bridge-temporarily-relocated-to-intersection-of-Highways-51-L-487278051.html

 

[ChiefD]

ahhh muskey country so that is lakeland high school in minocqua and they were 16 and 5 last year while the rhinelander hodags were 12 and 14 i think that lakeland has a pretty nice ice arena and they also have a muskey tournament fundraiser so for you this could be a match made in heaven rhinelander has a pretty nice arena too and both are decent for communities that size that depend on summer tourism the one thing i will say is that lakeland used to have an old iron railroad bridge as you got into the northwoods on 51 where the kids had painted t bird country on it and it was pretty much the coolest welcome to hell sign for visiting teams that may have ever existed in the state but i think it is gone now take that to the bank bromigos 

https://www.wsaw.com/content/news/Iconic-T-Bird-Bridge-temporarily-relocated-to-intersection-of-Highways-51-L-487278051.html

I'll actually be up in Wausau next weekend fishing for muskie and smallies on the Wisconsin river. 

 

[Fantasy_Freak]

ahhh muskey country so that is lakeland high school in minocqua and they were 16 and 5 last year while the rhinelander hodags were 12 and 14 i think that lakeland has a pretty nice ice arena and they also have a muskey tournament fundraiser so for you this could be a match made in heaven rhinelander has a pretty nice arena too and both are decent for communities that size that depend on summer tourism the one thing i will say is that lakeland used to have an old iron railroad bridge as you got into the northwoods on 51 where the kids had painted t bird country on it and it was pretty much the coolest welcome to hell sign for visiting teams that may have ever existed in the state but i think it is gone now take that to the bank bromigos 

https://www.wsaw.com/content/news/Iconic-T-Bird-Bridge-temporarily-relocated-to-intersection-of-Highways-51-L-487278051.html

My son played in the Hodag tournament two years ago, we had a great time.  Hung out in the hotel with a bunch of snowmobilers, but our drive was like 5 hours.

 

[Nigel]

It's great to have stretch-goals but for now I'd suggest he just continue to work hard to get better and see where it takes him. If/when you do move north you'll no doubt find the competition stiffer and get a better sense of where he stands among his peers.  For a late-starter like him I honestly think a more realistic goal would be to become a solid varsity high school hockey player, which honestly might even be a stretch goal in MN/WI. None of our kids are going to be pros, so my stance has always been to use sports to get into the best college possible, if the kid is good enough for that to be a factor. And if not, and he wants to continue playing beyond HS, look at colleges with club teams. Tons of fun without the everyday grind that being on a D1/D3 team can be. 

Also the difference between kids that get recruited for D1 and D3 is pretty slim, usually just a hole (real or perceived) in their game that lands them in D3 - they can all skate and have skill. I'd say size and hockey-sense are two big differentiators, as well as personality/attitude.

 

[Skipdog77]

I went through some DIII colleges rosters here in NYS a couple years back, and was surprised at both how many Canadian kids there were, as well as the ages of the players.   

They typically had very few 18 year old freshmen on their squads (right out of high school), they were all around 20-21 years old.  Most of those kids would play junior hockey until their eligibility was up and then go play for a DIII team.  

Tier III Junior hockey teams around here typically cost about $10-12k to play for a season, and they usually roster 25-30 kids, so there is no guarantee for playing time even though you are paying good money. 

My kid is a good hockey player, but I'm kinda glad he's not THAT good, where we would need to make that call. 

 

[Northern Voice]

And @Northern Voice. How could I forget the Petes' finest, bro?

Yeah, I don't have much to add other than however good you think you have to be to play D3, reality is probably you have to be much, much better.

There are late bloomers obviously but most D3 players will have played at the highest level for the age group their whole lives in major hockey markets. 

It's a landing spot for a lot of Canadians who excel at Jr. A hockey (one level below the OHL/WHL/QMJHL) as well, so add them in the mix for the already fairly limited spots. 

 

[rockaction]

Yeah, I don't have much to add other than however good you think you have to be to play D3, reality is probably you have to be much, much better.

There are late bloomers obviously but most D3 players will have played at the highest level for the age group their whole lives in major hockey markets. 

It's a landing spot for a lot of Canadians who excel at Jr. A hockey (one level below the OHL/WHL/QMJHL) as well, so add them in the mix for the already fairly limited spots. 

Cool. Back when I went to school and college and Juniors was what it was (I'm sure there have been some changes in designation) Jr. B was a place from which to land and play DI, still. We were ECAC DI (with Harvard, Clarkson, St. Lawrence, etc., back when these programs were top programs. Quinnipiac and Yale are ECAC DI also, to put it in perspective. They've both played in the nat'l champ game within the past decade or so.) and half our team was Jr. B, actually. That may have been the one level below back then, as our ages are different.

Point being, it's tough. The DIII kids played at the best prep schools or top high programs in the country back then. I shudder to think what it is like now with the specialization of sport and the hyper-competitive atmosphere that colors kids' sports these days.

 

[ChiefD]

Thanks fellas. Exactly the info I was looking for.

We are realistic people with realistic expectations.  So in my wife and my heart of hearts we pretty much know he's way behind the 8-ball here.  I guess technically we can afford to put him in higher level hockey, but that financial commitment would take away from the other kids. And that's the part we don't want to do.

The good part is the kid is motivated to improve day by day. I just want to have the right words to say as he moves closer to college in the next 4 years. For now my plan is just to tell him:

"keep working hard. that will never hurt you."

 

[Ron Popeil]

If he started late and hasn't generally been exposed to top level coaching, the best ROI is in skating instruction. There's always improvements to be made to technique and every last bit of balance, efficiency, and tactics makes all his skills and natural attributes better.  As he gains better command of his edges and can change speed and direction better, some basic pulls and a snap shot (quick, from imperfect setups) gain a lot of value.  After that, it's having enough skill and fitness for his brain to see and play the game.  Where's the space going to be and how can I position myself to either take advantage of it or help a teammate to take advantage of it?  The sticks can be ridiculously expensive but represent a serious advancement in the game.  They're more durable than you'd think but we've also broken a couple.  

I had a daughter playing high level club and while there's no shortage of physical contact in her game, the boys' game is comparatively horrifying.  Get the best helmet you can for concussion protection.  Virginia Tech hockey helmet rankings are the best resource I know.  Good luck!

 

[Tom Hagen]

I went through some DIII colleges rosters here in NYS a couple years back, and was surprised at both how many Canadian kids there were, as well as the ages of the players.   

They typically had very few 18 year old freshmen on their squads (right out of high school), they were all around 20-21 years old.  Most of those kids would play junior hockey until their eligibility was up and then go play for a DIII team.  

Tier III Junior hockey teams around here typically cost about $10-12k to play for a season, and they usually roster 25-30 kids, so there is no guarantee for playing time even though you are paying good money. 

My kid is a good hockey player, but I'm kinda glad he's not THAT good, where we would need to make that call. 

My business partner's son is playing AAA right now and I was surprised when she told me most of the other parents are planning on prep school, juniors for a couple years and then college. 

I'm pretty sure 6 years of AAA hockey plus 4 years of prep school costs more than just paying for college. 

 

[Fantasy_Freak]

My business partner's son is playing AAA right now and I was surprised when she told me most of the other parents are planning on prep school, juniors for a couple years and then college. 

I'm pretty sure 6 years of AAA hockey plus 4 years of prep school costs more than just paying for college. 

Living near the Chicago area I hear plenty of horror stories out there of families paying all in $100 to $200k to only have the kid quit because he was burnt out and just wanted to get to school like their friends instead of dedicating more years in juniors before becoming a college freshman at the age of 21.  Hockey is a unique sport in that successful college players move out of the house in mid-teens (15, 16) and play in the juniors (NAHL, USHL) with the hopes of getting into a college program (D1 or D3) by the time they are 20 or 21.  

 

[AcerFC]

@AcerFC to the courtesy phone.

Looks like it’s been covered. Hockey is a whole different ballgame 

 

[Bill Brasky]

I don’t have much to add.  my kid is still a mite and like rockaction everything is so different and hyper competitive compared to when I grew up.  I have no idea what KC hockey looks like but if he started at 9 and is only a bantam I would echo Nigel and just let it play out.

my only comment is can we stop lumping WI in with MN?  I mean, jfc

 

[Don't Toews Me]

I saw your comment on him working "on his leg strength and fitness." I also understand there is a pandemic right now, so wanted to preface that with what I have to say.

Definitely get him involved in a structured weight training program (not bodybuilding! Not bodybuilding! One more time: NOT BODYBUILDING! Functional strength training is what you're after). Kid should be an animal when he's 18 if under the right supervision with proper programming and periodization. That's 5 years. Not to mention, he's a 13 year old boy who's still growing like you said and hitting peak height velocity. 

5 years, when structured properly, could really help. The more time, the better. Waiting 4 years and putting it off and starting him 6 weeks before he goes off to college at 18 would be suboptimal to say the least. Think of this as similar to the concept of compound interest in personal finance. 

Yes, he can train during the season when he can. A competent strength and conditioning coach will program accordingly. Unfortunately, they're not easy to come across, so you will need to do your HW. 

Guessing you're not in the Boston area, but Mike Boyle's MBSC would be ideal. Cressey in Florida and Massachusetts is more baseball oriented, but is such a smart guy he'd know what to do. I know Prentiss Hockey Performance in Connecticut is quite well known. Lots of NY Rangers players (and other NHLers) train there in the offseason. I believe Gary Roberts (former NHLer) owns a similar facility in Canada. They might even have remote options/train at home. Obviously would be more ideal to find someone you could bring him to who is competent in this area. 

Take it from someone whose parents didn't do this (also was a hockey player growing up). Really wished they did. Yes I trained on my own like your son is doing. This is good to hear! But when you really get in the nitty gritty of the science of it (read Verkhoshanky or Zatsiorsky or Issurin), I kind of wish I had a really well-versed S&C coach who took me under his wing for 5 years and planned it all out. Big regret, but money was tight growing up. Can't do much about that.

Cal Dietz is another respected name in hockey (and in training in general) as far as S&C goes. I believe he's still at the University of Minnesota.

 

[Don't Toews Me]

Also all the comments on here about the competitiveness and insanity with hockey are spot on. Nothing to add there. Need deep pockets for this sport.

 

[Fantasy_Freak]

I don’t have much to add.  my kid is still a mite and like rockaction everything is so different and hyper competitive compared to when I grew up.  I have no idea what KC hockey looks like but if he started at 9 and is only a bantam I would echo Nigel and just let it play out.

my only comment is can we stop lumping WI in with MN?  I mean, jfc

Good call Brasky.  My son plays youth hockey in Wisconsin and has played a Minnesota team in the summer, the talent there is a different level.  Wisconsin probably could be lumped more accurately with Illinois than Minnesota, but don't tell folks in Illinois they would go nuts that they are not at the same level as Minnesota.

 

[rockaction]

Guessing you're not in the Boston area, but Mike Boyle's MBSC would be ideal. Cressey in Florida and Massachusetts is more baseball oriented, but is such a smart guy he'd know what to do.

When I was massively into fitness in 2010-2012 (I am old, chubby, and out-of-shape these days) these two were the guys I read and turned to. Boyle trained the BU women (didn't he train their women's hockey team?), Cressey was more baseball out of Worcester. I have no idea where they are now or what they do, but they were on the cutting edge back in those days. I'd say that your recommendations should be taken seriously given your advice with these two. So much functional strength knowledge. You can access those guys on YouTube (or you could) and structure workouts around what they were saying for free, never mind books and videos, etc.

 

[SteelCurtain]

The reality is if your kid isn't a complete stud on his team in KC, he likely isn't playing varsity college hockey.

There are a lot of travel/AA/ junior programs that are businesses and result in families paying big dollars to chase a dream that likely won't turn out to anything.  

That said, at the college level, there is club hockey which in some cases can be quite competitive.  There is men's and women's and different divisions.  Some teams have rinks on campus and draw thousands of people to games, while others are playing at 11 p.m. in front of family members and girlfriends.  Regardless, he likely has a path to play hockey somewhere in college, it will all depend on his skill and whats important to him.

Feel free to PM me if you want to connect more.

 

[Tick]

My brother was a D1 hockey player in the CCHA and a 3rd round NHL pick who ended up playing in the minors his whole career.  At one point he was a top prospect, playing for the US at youth levels against the Soviets (right before they became Russia).  We grew up in Alaska, which wasn't a recruiting spot for colleges, so he went Jr. B for his junior and senior year of HS, then college for ~3.5 years, then minor league hockey.  He finished up his degree about a year later in summer school.  Looking back, he made some bad decisions along the way that hurt his career, but also had some bad luck (GM that drafted him immediately jumped to another team, Sandy McCarthy broke his ankle with a slash in an NHL camp he was playing well in, the lockout made him jump to an independent minor team rather than staying with the NHL team he was playing preseason games with).

His kids play, and have been standout players in California at various ages.  The older one didn't love hockey more than college and just played through high school, then stopped. I think he'll play club hockey at college next year.  The younger is going into his sophomore or junior year of HS and is a hockey-or-bust kid.  He's talking about going to Major Juniors (likely WHL) in hopes of making the NHL and doesn't really care about college.

Here's kind of how I see the hierarchy:

• Can make the NHL: Major Juniors is the best path. If they want the experience and education of going to college, Jr. B in their junior/senior year of HS to get the college scholarship to a big school is a worse path to the NHL, but can work.
  
• Can't make the NHL, but maybe college: Jr. B for their junior/senior year to catch the eyes of college teams.  If they don't get the scholarship after their senior year, don't stay in Jr. B.  Yes, players can have a gap year then get a scholarship, but I'd say find a different path.
  
• No real chances, but just want to play as long as possible because they love playing: I'm not sure of that path.  Maybe just HS hockey then beer leagues.
  

High school hockey is funny - it tends to get covered in local papers, there are fans... and nobody really seems to know/care that it's a bunch of B teams, since every school's best players are playing AAA because high school hockey is a lower level.  Your kid's 13... what does he want to do?  It can be pretty fun to dominate lower leagues, be known as a standout player in HS, then move on with life.