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HOF - Modern-Era Nominees for the Class of 2012 (1 Viewer)

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Running back Tiki Barber, quarterback Drew Bledsoe, wide receiver Keyshawn Johnson, guard Will Shields, and coaches Bill Cowher, Bill Parcells, and Marty Schottenheimer are among the 11 first-year eligible modern-era candidates for the Pro Football Hall of Fame Class of 2012.
All 103 candidates:
Quarterbacks

DREW BLEDSOE, Phil Simms

Running Backs

TIKI BARBER, Jerome Bettis, Larry Centers, Roger Craig, STEPHEN DAVIS, Terrell Davis, Eddie George, Curtis Martin, Brian Mitchell (also KR/PR), Gerald Riggs, Herschel Walker, Ricky Watters

Wide Receivers

Tim Brown (also KR), Cris Carter, Gary Clark, Mark Clayton, Henry Ellard (also PR), KEYSHAWN JOHNSON, Andre Reed, Sterling Sharpe, Jimmy Smith, ROD SMITH

Tight Ends

Todd Christensen, Frank Wycheck

Offensive Linemen

Tony Boselli (T), Lomas Brown (T), Jim Covert (T), Dermontti Dawson ©, Joe Fields ©, Jay Hilgenberg ©, Chris Hinton (G/T), Kent Hull ©, Joe Jacoby (T), Mike Kenn (T), Jim Lachey (T), Willie Roaf (T), WILL SHIELDS (G), Steve Wisniewski (G)

Defensive Linemen

Dave Butz (DE/DT), Chris Doleman (DE/LB), Carl Hairston (DE/DT), Charles Haley (DE/LB), Ed “Too Tall” Jones (DE), Cortez Kennedy (DT), Joe Klecko (DE/DT/NT), Dexter Manley (DE), Charles Mann (DE), Fred Smerlas (NT)

Linebackers

Cornelius Bennett, Kevin Greene (also DE), Ken Harvey, Clay Matthews, Karl Mecklenburg, Sam Mills

Defensive Backs

Eric Allen (CB), Steve Atwater (S), Joey Browner (S), LeRoy Butler (S), Kenny Easley (S), Albert Lewis (CB), Donnie Shell (S), TROY VINCENT(CB), Aeneas Williams (CB/S), Darren Woodson (S)

Kickers/Punters

Gary Anderson (K), Nick Lowery (K), Reggie Roby (P), MIKE VANDERJAGT (K)

Special Teams

Steve Tasker (ST/WR)

Coaches

Bill Arnsparger, Bud Carson, Don Coryell, BILL COWHER, Tom Flores, Jimmy Johnson, Chuck Knox, Chuck Mather, BILL PARCELLS, Buddy Parker, Dan Reeves, MARTY SCHOTTENHEIMER, Clark Shaughnessy, **** Vermeil

Contributors

K.S. “Bud” Adams, Jr. (Owner), Bobby Beathard (Admin.), Gil Brandt (Admin.), Leo Carlin (Admin.), Jack Kent Cooke (Owner), Otho Davis (Trainer), Ed DeBartolo, Jr. (Owner), Ron Gibbs (Official), Jim Kensil (Admin.), Eddie Kotal (Admin.), Art McNally (Official), Art Modell (Owner), Steve Sabol (NFL Films), Paul Tagliabue (Commissioner), Burl Toler, Sr. (Official), Jim Tunney (Official), Ron Wolf (Admin.), George Young (Admin.)
 
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Hah, the Ray Guy dweebs are going to be pissed about this. Reggie Roby doesn't deserve it any more than Guy does, of course.

I think one of Tim Brown/Cris Carter makes it in this year. I don't think any of the new names will ever get in (except the coaches and maybe Will Shields), so some of the old guys are going to get swept in, maybe some of the linemen.

 
New class looks pretty weak outside of the coaches and Shields...but how often to guards get in?

Looks like the perfect year for Carter and Brown as CalBear said...can easily feature those two as the big guys.

 
Bledsoe will be interesting. He's complied some VERY impressive in his long career, but I've never really thought of him as a HoF'er. I wouldn't be shocked if he got in eventually, but not first ballot. In fact, I can't see any of the 'position players' getting in first ballot this year. Coaches, on the other hand, is impressive.

 
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Tiki, Keyshawn, and Bledsoe fall into the "Hall Of Very Good" category. Tiki could have made the HOF if he stuck around for a few more years -- not because he deserved it, but because the Hall tends to reward "stat compilers".

 
Bledsoe will be interesting. He's complied some VERY impressive in his long career, but I've never really thought of him as a HoF'er. I wouldn't be shocked if he got in eventually, but not first ballot.
I don't think Bledsoe will ever get in. He's compiled some stats that look impressive right now, but the stats won't look as impressive after 5-10 current QBs pass him on the list.
 
All 103 candidates:

QuarterbacksNONERunning BacksTerrell Davis, Curtis Martin, Ricky WattersWide ReceiversTim Brown (also KR), Cris Carter, Gary Clark, Henry Ellard (also PR), Andre Reed, Sterling Sharpe, Jimmy SmithTight Ends NONEOffensive Linemen- Don't know enough to make informed decision but gut says the below deserve a good look.Dermontti Dawson ©, Kent Hull ©, Joe Jacoby (T), Willie Roaf (T), WILL SHIELDS (G)Defensive LinemenCharles Haley (DE/LB), Cortez Kennedy (DT), LinebackersClay Matthews, Karl Mecklenburg, Sam MillsDefensive BacksEric Allen (CB), Steve Atwater (S), Kenny Easley (S), Aeneas Williams (CB/S), Kickers/PuntersGary Anderson (K), Nick Lowery (K), Special TeamsNONE--NEVER--NOT IN A MILLION YEARSCoachesDon Coryell, BILL PARCELLS, MARTY SCHOTTENHEIMER, **** VermeilContributors:Will have to look a little deeper into the candidates but my initial instinct says Sabol only.Steve Sabol (NFL Films),
This is my initial cut down list until I get a chance to compare and pare down when I get home.
 
Bledsoe will be interesting. He's complied some VERY impressive in his long career, but I've never really thought of him as a HoF'er. I wouldn't be shocked if he got in eventually, but not first ballot. In fact, I can't see any of the 'position players' getting in first ballot this year. Coaches, on the other hand, is impressive.
Bledsoe is the definition of a compiler. 101-98 as a starter, only four Pro Bowls, no All-Pros, a very pedestrian 6.6 yards/attempt (never made the yearly top 5 in yards/attempt). Postseason, threw for 6 TDs vs. 12 INTs in 7 games with 51.2% completions (54.9 passer rating); one Super Bowl appearance, a blowout loss where he threw 4 INTs on 25/48 passing. That'd be "no."
 
QuarterbacksPhil SimmsRunning BacksJerome Bettis, Roger Craig, Terrell Davis, Curtis Martin, Herschel WalkerWide ReceiversTim Brown (also KR), Cris Carter, Jimmy SmithOffensive LinemenTony Boselli (T), Lomas Brown (T), Dermontti Dawson ©,Joe Jacoby (T),Jim Lachey (T), Willie Roaf (T), WILL SHIELDS (G)Defensive LinemenCharles Haley (DE/LB), Ed Too Tall Jones (DE), Cortez Kennedy (DT), LinebackersSam MillsDefensive BacksEric Allen (CB), Steve Atwater (S), TROY VINCENT(CB)Kickers/PuntersCoachesContributorsSteve Sabol (NFL Films), Jim Tunney (Official), George Young (Admin.)
my ballot
 
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Link

Running back Tiki Barber, quarterback Drew Bledsoe, wide receiver Keyshawn Johnson, guard Will Shields, and coaches Bill Cowher, Bill Parcells, and Marty Schottenheimer are among the 11 first-year eligible modern-era candidates for the Pro Football Hall of Fame Class of 2012.
All 103 candidates:
Quarterbacks

DREW BLEDSOE, Phil Simms

Running Backs

TIKI BARBER, Jerome Bettis, Larry Centers, Roger Craig, STEPHEN DAVIS, Terrell Davis, Eddie George, Curtis Martin, Brian Mitchell (also KR/PR), Gerald Riggs, Herschel Walker, Ricky Watters

Wide Receivers

Tim Brown (also KR), Cris Carter, Gary Clark, Mark Clayton, Henry Ellard (also PR), KEYSHAWN JOHNSON, Andre Reed, Sterling Sharpe, Jimmy Smith, ROD SMITH

Tight Ends

Todd Christensen, Frank Wycheck

Offensive Linemen

Tony Boselli (T), Lomas Brown (T), Jim Covert (T), Dermontti Dawson ©, Joe Fields ©, Jay Hilgenberg ©, Chris Hinton (G/T), Kent Hull ©, Joe Jacoby (T), Mike Kenn (T), Jim Lachey (T), Willie Roaf (T), WILL SHIELDS (G), Steve Wisniewski (G)

Defensive Linemen

Dave Butz (DE/DT), Chris Doleman (DE/LB), Carl Hairston (DE/DT), Charles Haley (DE/LB), Ed “Too Tall” Jones (DE), Cortez Kennedy (DT), Joe Klecko (DE/DT/NT), Dexter Manley (DE), Charles Mann (DE), Fred Smerlas (NT)

Linebackers

Cornelius Bennett, Kevin Greene (also DE), Ken Harvey, Clay Matthews, Karl Mecklenburg, Sam Mills

Defensive Backs

Eric Allen (CB), Steve Atwater (S), Joey Browner (S), LeRoy Butler (S), Kenny Easley (S), Albert Lewis (CB), Donnie Shell (S), TROY VINCENT(CB), Aeneas Williams (CB/S), Darren Woodson (S)

Kickers/Punters

Gary Anderson (K), Nick Lowery (K), Reggie Roby (P), MIKE VANDERJAGT (K)

Special Teams

Steve Tasker (ST/WR)

Coaches

Bill Arnsparger, Bud Carson, Don Coryell, BILL COWHER, Tom Flores, Jimmy Johnson, Chuck Knox, Chuck Mather, BILL PARCELLS, Buddy Parker, Dan Reeves, MARTY SCHOTTENHEIMER, Clark Shaughnessy, **** Vermeil

Contributors

K.S. “Bud” Adams, Jr. (Owner), Bobby Beathard (Admin.), Gil Brandt (Admin.), Leo Carlin (Admin.), Jack Kent Cooke (Owner), Otho Davis (Trainer), Ed DeBartolo, Jr. (Owner), Ron Gibbs (Official), Jim Kensil (Admin.), Eddie Kotal (Admin.), Art McNally (Official), Art Modell (Owner), Steve Sabol (NFL Films), Paul Tagliabue (Commissioner), Burl Toler, Sr. (Official), Jim Tunney (Official), Ron Wolf (Admin.), George Young (Admin.)
Terrell DavisTim Brown

Dermontti Dawson ©

Joe Jacoby (T)

Jim Lachey (T)

Kenny Easley (S)

BILL PARCELLS

 
Running back Tiki Barber, quarterback Drew Bledsoe, wide receiver Keyshawn Johnson, guard Will Shields, and coaches Bill Cowher, Bill Parcells, and Marty Schottenheimer are among the 11 first-year eligible modern-era candidates for the Pro Football Hall of Fame Class of 2012.
Of these Parcells gets in very soon, since, unlike previous eligible years, it looks like he's done coaching. Cowher isn't, so he won't get a sniff during this round of eligibility. I don't see Schottenheimer getting in at all. Coaches need either Championships or a long lasting identity with one team. He has neither.
 
carter and brown and reed

dermonti dawson should already be in

charles haley should be in as well

willie roaf

i think curtis martin gets in eventually, same thing with bettis

 
Bledsoe will be interesting. He's complied some VERY impressive in his long career, but I've never really thought of him as a HoF'er. I wouldn't be shocked if he got in eventually, but not first ballot. In fact, I can't see any of the 'position players' getting in first ballot this year. Coaches, on the other hand, is impressive.
Bledsoe is the definition of a compiler. 101-98 as a starter, only four Pro Bowls, no All-Pros, a very pedestrian 6.6 yards/attempt (never made the yearly top 5 in yards/attempt). Postseason, threw for 6 TDs vs. 12 INTs in 7 games with 51.2% completions (54.9 passer rating); one Super Bowl appearance, a blowout loss where he threw 4 INTs on 25/48 passing. That'd be "no."
Bledsoe is the Jose Canseco of the NFL, he never gets in(or at least shouldn't). Dave Krieg and Vinny Testaverde had similar stats to Bledsoe and neither will get in either.
 
Hah, the Ray Guy dweebs are going to be pissed about this. Reggie Roby doesn't deserve it any more than Guy does, of course.I think one of Tim Brown/Cris Carter makes it in this year. I don't think any of the new names will ever get in (except the coaches and maybe Will Shields), so some of the old guys are going to get swept in, maybe some of the linemen.
Guy probably lost his eligibility and is now a seniors candidate. There is no way Roby gets in if Guy hasn't been accepted into the hall.
 
Running Backs

Jerome Bettis, Eddie George, Curtis Martin,

Wide Receivers

Tim Brown (also KR), Cris Carter,

Tight Ends

Todd Christensen,

Offensive Linemen

Dermontti Dawson ©,Joe Jacoby (T),Willie Roaf (T), WILL SHIELDS (G), Steve Wisniewski (G)

Defensive Backs

Steve Atwater (S)

These guys interest me.

Willie Roaf was 1 of the best O-lineman ever and if I can pick only 1 player to go on this list that is who I chose.

Atwater was a true shutdown in his prime. alot of people have forgotten about him.

EDIT: to delete Stephen Davis from my list

 
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Sabol should be a lock.

The guy has been responsible for packaging the essence of the NFL, and for its vast marketing success across many media platforms. The success of NFL films, NFL Network, and arguably even the way ESPN produces its shows stem from his vision.

And he penned Autumn Wind to boot. :thumbup:

 
Sabol should be a lock.

The guy has been responsible for packaging the essence of the NFL, and for its vast marketing success across many media platforms. The success of NFL films, NFL Network, and arguably even the way ESPN produces its shows stem from his vision.

And he penned Autumn Wind to boot. :thumbup:
If he has anything to do with ESPN I not only don't want him in the hall I want his head on a stick. ;)

 
This definitely looks like a weaker class that usual. I think this might be the year someone like Curtis Martin and/or Cris Carter sneak in.

 
Semifinalists:

Steve Atwater, S – 1989-1998 Denver Broncos, 1999 New York Jets

Jerome Bettis, RB – 1993-95 Los Angeles/St. Louis Rams, 1996-2005 Pittsburgh Steelers

Tim Brown, WR/KR – 1988-2003 Los Angeles/Oakland Raiders, 2004 Tampa Bay Buccaneers

Cris Carter, WR – 1987-89 Philadelphia Eagles, 1990-2001 Minnesota Vikings, 2002 Miami Dolphins

Don Coryell, Coach – 1973-77 St. Louis Cardinals, 1978-1986 San Diego Chargers

Roger Craig, RB – 1983-1990 San Francisco 49ers, 1991 Los Angeles Raiders, 1992-93 Minnesota Vikings

Terrell Davis, RB – 1995-2001 Denver Broncos

Dermontti Dawson, C – 1988-2000 Pittsburgh Steelers

Edward DeBartolo, Jr., Owner – 1979-2000 San Francisco 49ers

Chris Doleman, DE/LB – 1985-1993, 1999 Minnesota Vikings, 1994-95 Atlanta Falcons, 1996-98 San Francisco 49ers

Kevin Greene, LB/DE – 1985-1992 Los Angeles Rams, 1993-95 Pittsburgh Steelers, 1996, 1998-99 Carolina Panthers, 1997 San Francisco 49ers

Charles Haley, DE/LB – 1986-1991, 1999 San Francisco 49ers, 1992-96 Dallas Cowboys

Cortez Kennedy, DT – 1990-2000 Seattle Seahawks

Curtis Martin, RB – 1995-97 New England Patriots, 1998-2005 New York Jets

Clay Matthews, LB – 1978-1993 Cleveland Browns, 1994-96 Atlanta Falcons

Karl Mecklenburg, LB – 1983-1994 Denver Broncos

Bill Parcells, Coach – 1983-1990 New York Giants, 1993-96 New England Patriots, 1997-99 New York Jets, 2003-06 Dallas Cowboys

Andre Reed, WR – 1985-1999 Buffalo Bills, 2000 Washington Redskins

Willie Roaf, T – 1993-2001 New Orleans Saints, 2002-05 Kansas City Chiefs

Donnie Shell, S – 1974-1987 Pittsburgh Steelers

Will Shields, G – 1993-2006 Kansas City Chiefs

Paul Tagliabue, Commissioner – 1989-2006 National Football League

Steve Tasker, ST/WR – 1985-86 Houston Oilers, 1986-1997 Buffalo Bills

Aeneas Williams, CB/S – 1991-2000 Phoenix/Arizona Cardinals, 2001-04 St. Louis Rams

Ron Wolf, Contributor – 1963-1974, 1978-1990 Oakland/Los Angeles Raiders, 1975-77 Tampa Bay Buccaneers, 1990 New York Jets, 1991 -2001 Green Bay Packers

George Young, Contributor – 1968-1974 Baltimore Colts, 1975-78 Miami Dolphins, 1979-1997 New York Giants, 1998-2001 National Football League

 
Semifinalists:

Steve Atwater, S – 1989-1998 Denver Broncos, 1999 New York Jets

Jerome Bettis, RB – 1993-95 Los Angeles/St. Louis Rams, 1996-2005 Pittsburgh Steelers

Tim Brown, WR/KR – 1988-2003 Los Angeles/Oakland Raiders, 2004 Tampa Bay Buccaneers

Cris Carter, WR – 1987-89 Philadelphia Eagles, 1990-2001 Minnesota Vikings, 2002 Miami Dolphins

Don Coryell, Coach – 1973-77 St. Louis Cardinals, 1978-1986 San Diego Chargers

Roger Craig, RB – 1983-1990 San Francisco 49ers, 1991 Los Angeles Raiders, 1992-93 Minnesota Vikings

Terrell Davis, RB – 1995-2001 Denver Broncos

Dermontti Dawson, C – 1988-2000 Pittsburgh Steelers

Edward DeBartolo, Jr., Owner – 1979-2000 San Francisco 49ers

Chris Doleman, DE/LB – 1985-1993, 1999 Minnesota Vikings, 1994-95 Atlanta Falcons, 1996-98 San Francisco 49ers

Kevin Greene, LB/DE – 1985-1992 Los Angeles Rams, 1993-95 Pittsburgh Steelers, 1996, 1998-99 Carolina Panthers, 1997 San Francisco 49ers

Charles Haley, DE/LB – 1986-1991, 1999 San Francisco 49ers, 1992-96 Dallas Cowboys

Cortez Kennedy, DT – 1990-2000 Seattle Seahawks

Curtis Martin, RB – 1995-97 New England Patriots, 1998-2005 New York Jets

Clay Matthews, LB – 1978-1993 Cleveland Browns, 1994-96 Atlanta Falcons

Karl Mecklenburg, LB – 1983-1994 Denver Broncos

Bill Parcells, Coach – 1983-1990 New York Giants, 1993-96 New England Patriots, 1997-99 New York Jets, 2003-06 Dallas Cowboys

Andre Reed, WR – 1985-1999 Buffalo Bills, 2000 Washington Redskins

Willie Roaf, T – 1993-2001 New Orleans Saints, 2002-05 Kansas City Chiefs

Donnie Shell, S – 1974-1987 Pittsburgh Steelers

Will Shields, G – 1993-2006 Kansas City Chiefs

Paul Tagliabue, Commissioner – 1989-2006 National Football League

Steve Tasker, ST/WR – 1985-86 Houston Oilers, 1986-1997 Buffalo Bills

Aeneas Williams, CB/S – 1991-2000 Phoenix/Arizona Cardinals, 2001-04 St. Louis Rams

Ron Wolf, Contributor – 1963-1974, 1978-1990 Oakland/Los Angeles Raiders, 1975-77 Tampa Bay Buccaneers, 1990 New York Jets, 1991 -2001 Green Bay Packers

George Young, Contributor – 1968-1974 Baltimore Colts, 1975-78 Miami Dolphins, 1979-1997 New York Giants, 1998-2001 National Football League
Hmmm, lots of good candidates. My guess is Parcells, Tags, Roaf, Cris Carter and Charles Haley. I'd love to see TD get in, but I think that's a pipe dream. He was the best RB I've ever seen.

 
Coryell, Tez, Sheilds. Parcells should wait. He was stealing money from the Dolphins for the past few years.

Forgot Roaf.

 
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Really good catch-up year. They'll be able to get a bunch of guys in that deserve it, but got overshadowed in prior years.

 
Maybe not right away...but Wolf has to get in doesn't he? Just for how Green Bay was brought back to prominence and continue to this day because of many of the things he did.

Has to play huge in the voters minds. That and I think he was rather well liked by most and accessible to the media (quite a bit different personality wise to Ted Thompson).

 
Curtis should get in over both TD and Bettis.
:thumbup: Sure he's a bit of a compiler but 4th most rushing yards all time? That should be a guaranteed in. Tomlinson will probably pass him but that next guy could be a while away.
Bettis is 5th.Though LaDainian will pass him in a week or three.
True, and I think he'll get in eventually too. Martin does have a pretty big lead in yards from scrimmage and surprisingly more TDs. Bettis does have that superbowl. I think unless you have a Pittsburgh bias in the voting Martin is a lock to get to the Hall before Bettis.
 
i hate that non players steal spots from all time greats. i suppose an allowance should be made for coaches, but no way should contributors, owners and commissioners get in. mebbe make a separate category.

 
Curtis should get in over both TD and Bettis.
:thumbup: Sure he's a bit of a compiler but 4th most rushing yards all time? That should be a guaranteed in. Tomlinson will probably pass him but that next guy could be a while away.
Bettis is 5th.Though LaDainian will pass him in a week or three.
True, and I think he'll get in eventually too. Martin does have a pretty big lead in yards from scrimmage and surprisingly more TDs. Bettis does have that superbowl. I think unless you have a Pittsburgh bias in the voting Martin is a lock to get to the Hall before Bettis.
Martin was born in Pittsburgh.Martin played HS ball in Pittsburgh.

Martin played his collegiate ball for Pittsburgh.

;)

One of the Keys to Bettis is that he was the best Big back in his entire generation, ran like it and was able to put up the numbers that big backs typically cant because of the rigors of that style of play.

 
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Love Curtis, but Bettis should also be in, and TD given strong consideration down the line. Damn shame his shelf life was so short, he was as good as they come. All in all, great names here and they are all tremendous players.

 
Curtis = better than average + very long time

Bettis = good + long time

TD = great + short time

My personal qualifications for a HOF are great + long time.

None of them should be HOF's imo.

 
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'BigSteelThrill said:
'ivnabru said:
'BigSteelThrill said:
'ivnabru said:
'nysportsfan said:
Curtis should get in over both TD and Bettis.
:thumbup: Sure he's a bit of a compiler but 4th most rushing yards all time? That should be a guaranteed in. Tomlinson will probably pass him but that next guy could be a while away.
Bettis is 5th.Though LaDainian will pass him in a week or three.
True, and I think he'll get in eventually too. Martin does have a pretty big lead in yards from scrimmage and surprisingly more TDs. Bettis does have that superbowl. I think unless you have a Pittsburgh bias in the voting Martin is a lock to get to the Hall before Bettis.
Martin was born in Pittsburgh.Martin played HS ball in Pittsburgh.

Martin played his collegiate ball for Pittsburgh.

;)

One of the Keys to Bettis is that he was the best Big back in his entire generation, ran like it and was able to put up the numbers that big backs typically cant because of the rigors of that style of play.
he also donated a truckload of $ to less fortunate in pittsburgh.We've done this Martin stuff before. I think he was special.

I can imagine a linemen heavy induction this year.

Aeneas never got enough love when he was playing. He was excellent but he's curious here. I'd vote for him but...

Reggie Roby versus Ray Guy. I don't think it works like that anymore as people have turned stale on the idea of Guy getting in. Roby should be mentioned, remembered or something. His hang time was insane and game-changing. I mean announcers discussed it and the currently lost art of placing punts too. Roby looks better every Sunday thanks to today's punters.

Sean Landeta will someday be an interesting Punter to discuss. He played forever and was a top ten punter many of those years. He had a real unusual ability to play for some top teams. We always talk about rings and big games and...he's quite unique with how many big games he was in for so many different teams. I don't know that Landeta gets in, but at that point he might set a bar for others.

Bledsoe's numbers are undeniable, did this before many times.

How Dawson isn't in is beyond me

 
'spider321 said:
Curtis = better than average + very long timeBettis = good + long timeTD = great + short time
you're wrong. By that I mean players leading NFL in rushing or TDs or whatever. I do, however, think it's so very important how players are perceived now/remembered and things like this hurt these guys.
 
'spider321 said:
Curtis = better than average + very long timeBettis = good + long timeTD = great + short time
you're wrong. By that I mean players leading NFL in rushing or TDs or whatever. I do, however, think it's so very important how players are perceived now/remembered and things like this hurt these guys.
Your post makes no sense so I'm gonna just agree with you, and hopefully, you won't drink and post again. :thumbup:
 
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