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Holiday/Vacation day debacle - UPDATE - more of a communication debacle than anything (1 Viewer)

Jayrod

Jayrod

Footballguy
So I'm just going to vent here a bit.

I work in the office of a commercial general contractor.  It's a job for now and I don't love it, but I don't hate it and they let me flex my schedule to leave a little early if I need to ref football and basketball games throughout the year (I got the job because I reffed with my boss for a couple years).

So last week, my boss (also the new company President as his dad is retiring) decides we only get 1 day off for Christmas and can pick Friday or Monday and if we want both off, we can use a vacation day.  Typically, the company has a Christmas party the morning of Christmas Eve and then we get Christmas day off, so now instead of 2 days we get 1.  He gave a lame excuse about how it wouldn't be fair to the supervisors in the field who don't get off 2 days, so why should the office.  The problem with that is that the supervisors pick their own schedules.  They basically come and go off of the job when they please.  Had a guy in the office today who is on an active project and he is done for the week.  But OK, whatever.

I've been here just over a year and have one vacation day accrued (horrible vacation policy).  So today, I submit my vacation request for my one day off on Monday.  I mention it to my boss who says, "I'll have to think about it because Jen is already off."  :jawdrop:

Jen and I do the same job.  She only works 4 days a week.  She has twice taken week long vacations this year.   She left early yesterday and didn't come in today because she was sick.  She has a 1 year old and has missed several days with her being sick.  I haven't taken a single sick day all year and took 2 personal days in the Summer to help out a friend.  My boss was gracious in that instance, but the entire time off policy is the suck here.  They treat us all like the hourly supervisors who get to come and go as they please and get bonuses, yet we are salaried employees who work every day of the week.

He may say yes, but I was :hot:  after he said he'd have to think about it.  WTH is there to think about?  It's the day after Christmas and we thought we'd have it off already (almost no one will be here or working).  I say I'd like to use my vacation day (like you said we could) and now I might not be able to because the girl who has missed a ton of time has already scheduled off?  Seriously?

Oh, and to top it off, he left early today to deal with a personal matter.

So I started looking online at what jobs were available in the area.  I still want to go into Christian ministry at some point, but I'm just not ready yet and my financial responsibilities are such that I can't just take any job.  We get our bonus on Friday and the year was very, very profitable.  If the bonus is enough, it all may be forgotten and I just continue to stick it out here.  If the bonus sucks I'm pretty sure I'll be done as soon as I can find something at least comparable salary wise where I can leave at 4:00 on occasion.

 
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It's 4 days before Christmas, and you're just NOW asking for time off?!? Poor form. Your boss should say no just on principle. And it sounds like your job sucks. 

 
I asked off the week after Christmas in October because everyone requests that week.  What made you wait so long to request it?

 
This is why I like my job so much.  I don't have to ask for time off and can take vacations whenever I want to.  I can come in late or leave early any time I want if I don't have a scheduled appointment or phone call.

 
I opened a door for an inspector at 9am today and took the rest of the day off. Added bonus was wife making tuna melt sammich for lunch.

 
So they let you flex your schedule all the time, you're the new kid on the block, and you waited until the last minute to request a day off on the biggest holiday weekend of the year.........

You're lucky he didn't flat out say no. 

 
Jayrod said:
So I started looking online at what jobs were available in the area.  I still want to go into Christian ministry at some point, but I'm just not ready yet and my financial responsibilities are such that I can't just take any job.
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First of all, THIS.  You deserve a better work environment.  They seem oddly flexible in some circumstances, and soul crushingly restrictive otherwise.  

To the second point you make, this is an opportunity to at least look for jobs within the profession / environment you want.  If you don't find it right away, you look for the best job to pay the bills and all, and perhaps look to pursue you career goal. There may be classes you could take or a degree even to pursue, or perhaps you take a second job (or even volunteer / intern) in your desired field as a next step forward, while still earning during traditional working hours.  I'd think a ministry would provide you an opportunity to pursue that on weekends and in the evening while you have to earn a living elsewhere for a period of time. 

Sorry for the crap situation now, but there's no need to subject yourself to it long term.  Go get some betterness. 

 
Ned said:
So they let you flex your schedule all the time, you're the new kid on the block, and you waited until the last minute to request a day off on the biggest holiday weekend of the year.........

You're lucky he didn't flat out say no. 
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Am I reading this wrong, or did the policy (stated or otherwise) just change on the new President's (the Son) sudden dictate?

 
Sucks - but....even though other gal has taken vacation days, she earned them and requested that day off first.  Your earned day is just as valuable,  but her request was in sooner.  That being said, still sucks that anyone would ever bar a vacation day (unless you being there was mission critical) and I really don't like the sudden change in established policy.

All that aside - I very seldom use vacation the last two weeks of the year because it is so DEAD.  Everyone else is burning vacation and I essentially hang out in a ghost town - getting to write code with no one there to bother me.  So working that day is not horrible.  ALso - if you have accrued one vacation day and they don't let you take it - do they at least let you carry it over into the next year - or do you simply lose it.  If you lose it, then it is worth fighting over.  If they let you carry it over, then chalk it up as a lesson learned and levergae for the next time you need a vacation day approved.

 
Jayrod, no one here knows your salary, your needs and what type of work you do exactly, so it's tough for us to give the right advice.

But I will say that a one day a year vacation policy is horrific.  I'd imagine that you'll get more time off in 2017?

If not, yes it's time to look for a new job, unless of course the money is more than you could hope to make anywhere else.

As an aside, Companies that don't give vacation time need to go away, as do companies that require you to work through vacation.  

 
Forgive him?  Oh - you haven't done the Christian ministry thing yet..

If you don't need the job tell him you are taking it off because it was expected.  Realistically they should have posted their holidays at the beginning of the year.  We have Friday and Monday off, as I suspect many do.  Hope it works out.

 
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They'll never believe him if he calls in sick now. He might get away with it, but he'll be on the #### list. Double down on that job hunt.

 
Please tell me you get 6 weeks after the whole 1 day thing?

I seem to be on the low end PTO on the board and ain't that bad

And yea, you put your supervisor in a bad spot asking for a popular day off for vacation a few days before the fact

 
Koya said:
Am I reading this wrong, or did the policy (stated or otherwise) just change on the new President's (the Son) sudden dictate?
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Regardless the other lady claimed the day off sooner so either she knew about the new policy before our hero or our hero took too long to request off. 

 
This reminds me of my purchasing manager. Guy waits til last minute to request off around every holiday and is then butthurt when I tell him no.

I am his backup. I am also like 4 other people's backup. Only so many people can have off around the holidays since I can only cover so many jobs. I try to give as many people off as possible, but I cant shut down operations because one guy wants to request off 4 days before the holiday.

This year I was kind of proud of him. He asked off for December 23rd in July and I approved it right away. In classic fashion numbnuts asks off for the rest of the week last week.

 
Start the new job search now. Collect the year end bonus. Go to new job as soon as you find one that fits your schedule and salary needs. 

 
shader said:
Jayrod, no one here knows your salary, your needs and what type of work you do exactly, so it's tough for us to give the right advice.

But I will say that a one day a year vacation policy is horrific.  I'd imagine that you'll get more time off in 2017?

If not, yes it's time to look for a new job, unless of course the money is more than you could hope to make anywhere else.

As an aside, Companies that don't give vacation time need to go away, as do companies that require you to work through vacation.  
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He will probably lose that one day off in 2017 with the new boss and....ya know....MAGA.

 
So after a night's sleep, I'm a little bit calmer.  I also applied to a job at a non-profit that sounded decent, so that helped just thinking about other options.

To answer some questions, everyone expected to get off on Monday.  We had to specifically ask if we were getting it off or not because no one in management had told us one way or the other.  

The company tradition is this; on Christmas Eve, we have a breakfast Christmas party at Bass Pro Shops that is mandatory to attend for all personnel and we all get our year end bonuses and gifts.  We then are off the rest of that day and off Christmas day.  So this year they scheduled the party for Friday morning.  Then the question was asked, do we still get off Monday?  After being asked about it several times, my boss (he's been in charge for about 6 months now) sent the following email on 12/13:

Everyone has been asking about what days we are taking off for Christmas. The office will be closed the Friday before Christmas and the entire company will have the rest of the day off and the office will be open the Monday following Christmas this has pretty much been the policy for 26 years. The guys in the field will not get a 4 day weekend so I do not think that it is fair that the office personnel get a one so here are your options. 

1.       Come into work on Friday after the Christmas Breakfast and work your normal hours taking Monday off.

2.       Take Friday off and work Monday. Which is what I am choosing to do.

3.       Use a Vacation day and have a 4 day weekend. This will be limited per department.

Again these are not options for the guys in the field so I do not think that it is fair that we are extending these options for the employees in the office. We recognize that some of the personnel in the office are new so we are going to afford this one time offer but in the future this will not be extended.




[SIZE=11pt]Just think next year you will get a 4 day weekend because of the company policy as opposed to the rest of the world that will only get Monday off.[/SIZE]
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I understand that he said "this will be limited per department".  There is one other person in our role that will be here on Monday, but she handles different types of projects than Jen and I do.  I was initially planning to work Monday as well until something came up and I'd rather have it off.  I honestly didn't think about other people taking off effecting me because...well...I've never asked for a day off.  And I know it was late, but so was the news that we were going to have to use vacation on that day.  I'm pretty sure that Jen ran in immediately to request her day off as she is going out of town (she was one of the ones pushing to find out).

As for his explanation and reasoning, it makes little sense to me.  The guys in the field come and go as they please and get a lot of natural down time during their jobs.  They also are hourly and get paid overtime, unlike the office staff.  I'm sure many of them won't be working on Monday, but just start on Tuesday and work four 10 hour days.  This place will be a ghost town on Monday and I will have little to do after the initial 7 am meeting that morning.  (Yes, we have a 7am meeting every Monday :X  )

As for the vacation policy; it was explained that I would get a week after being here a year.  However, they accrue all vacation on January 1.  So technically I don't get my week until I've already been here for 15 months.  I instead got a pro-rated amount of 1 day given to me on my anniversary date.  I didn't find that all out until October.

The problem with my boss is that he went straight from being in the field to being in charge.  He has never had to show up and sit at a desk every day week after week after week.  He takes a ton of time off and comes and goes as he pleases because he is the owner.  95% of his job is done via email and phone anyway, so he can really do that anywhere.  He probably just doesn't understand what that day off means to me after only getting 2 days off all year.

As of 9:00 am he still hasn't answered me and I sent him an email reminder to let me know one way or the other.

 
I also contemplated that if he denies my request, pulling a switcheroo and decide to work on Friday and then take off Monday as my holiday like he says in option 1.  What would he do if everyone wanted to take that option?

 
You kinda have to get over his "do as I say, not as I do" approach to taking time off. It sucks, and it sure as hell won't inspire people to work hard and stick around, but it's his company.

I would just do whatever works best for you in this particular situation and then do whatever is necessary to keep it off your mind. You're already looking for a better situation so just focus on that.

I'd recommend though that if you end up going somewhere that has a similarly ####ty vacation accrual policy to bring up the subject of taking unpaid leave so you're not a slave to the office for all but one day and major holidays. Good luck. 

 
Jayrod said:
I also contemplated that if he denies my request, pulling a switcheroo and decide to work on Friday and then take off Monday as my holiday like he says in option 1.  What would he do if everyone wanted to take that option?
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It sounds like it's the type of job that has "coverage issues".  I'd deny you the ability to switch the holiday to Monday since it's already been brought to your attention that someone is needed there Monday (and the other person already got that day off approved).

 
Jayrod said:
So I'm just going to vent here a bit.

I work in the office of a commercial general contractor.  It's a job for now and I don't love it, but I don't hate it and they let me flex my schedule to leave a little early if I need to ref football and basketball games throughout the year (I got the job because I reffed with my boss for a couple years).

So last week, my boss (also the new company President as his dad is retiring) decides we only get 1 day off for Christmas and can pick Friday or Monday and if we want both off, we can use a vacation day.  Typically, the company has a Christmas party the morning of Christmas Eve and then we get Christmas day off, so now instead of 2 days we get 1.  He gave a lame excuse about how it wouldn't be fair to the supervisors in the field who don't get off 2 days, so why should the office.  The problem with that is that the supervisors pick their own schedules.  They basically come and go off of the job when they please.  Had a guy in the office today who is on an active project and he is done for the week.  But OK, whatever.

I've been here just over a year and have one vacation day accrued (horrible vacation policy).  So today, I submit my vacation request for my one day off on Monday.  I mention it to my boss who says, "I'll have to think about it because Jen is already off."  :jawdrop:

Jen and I do the same job.  She only works 4 days a week.  She has twice taken week long vacations this year.   She left early yesterday and didn't come in today because she was sick.  She has a 1 year old and has missed several days with her being sick.  I haven't taken a single sick day all year and took 2 personal days in the Summer to help out a friend.  My boss was gracious in that instance, but the entire time off policy is the suck here.  They treat us all like the hourly supervisors who get to come and go as they please and get bonuses, yet we are salaried employees who work every day of the week.

He may say yes, but I was :hot:  after he said he'd have to think about it.  WTH is there to think about?  It's the day after Christmas and we thought we'd have it off already (almost no one will be here or working).  I say I'd like to use my vacation day (like you said we could) and now I might not be able to because the girl who has missed a ton of time has already scheduled off?  Seriously?

Oh, and to top it off, he left early today to deal with a personal matter.

So I started looking online at what jobs were available in the area.  I still want to go into Christian ministry at some point, but I'm just not ready yet and my financial responsibilities are such that I can't just take any job.  We get our bonus on Friday and the year was very, very profitable.  If the bonus is enough, it all may be forgotten and I just continue to stick it out here.  If the bonus sucks I'm pretty sure I'll be done as soon as I can find something at least comparable salary wise where I can leave at 4:00 on occasion.
Click to expand...
Easy solution.  Change the vacation day to Friday and use Monday for the Christmas day off.

 
Arizona Ron said:
It sounds like it's the type of job that has "coverage issues".  I'd deny you the ability to switch the holiday to Monday since it's already been brought to your attention that someone is needed there Monday (and the other person already got that day off approved).
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I've never really thought about it having coverage issues over the last year, but that's probably because I've been here EVERY FREAKING DAY.

 
Sounds like my wifes dumb work environment. Small office.  She gets plenty of vacation. But their office manager is an idiot.  One woman used to work 4 - 10's.

Whenever my wife would take off on a Friday she would catch flack because there was no coverage that day.  He would always say you need to make sure "coworker" is in on Friday.

She would then always say "You approved her schedule, you make her come in on Friday"  -  So my wife started to get screwed out of Fridays off.  She finally was fed up and just took them anyway.

They fired the other woman :lol:

Good luck

 
How is it possible that you only have one vacation day working there over a year? Thats insane. How many sick days do you get?

 
IMO, it's impossible to impose or dictate a new office policy 2 weeks in advance of a holiday like christmas when people have to plan their vacation time far in advance. strike 1 against boss dude.

 
El Floppo said:
IMO, it's impossible to impose or dictate a new office policy 2 weeks in advance of a holiday like christmas when people have to plan their vacation time far in advance. strike 1 against boss dude.
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Came here to say that.  If he's going to change the policy that late in the year, the change should be effective  for 2017 not 2016.  That's total BS.  So, whatever happens and even if you get a nice bonus, go get a better job.  If this is how the new boss plans on running things, you could reasonably expect more issues to come up the longer you stick around.

 
shadyridr said:
So how many "sick" days did you take this year?
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Literally zero.  I asked off for 2 days as a kind of personal leave to help out a friend and he did grant me that.  I thought about calling in sick, but just wanted to keep everything on the up and up.

I'm a freaking picture of health these days.

 
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