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Horrible trade? (1 Viewer)

Dragon1952

Footballguy
12 team, 1 PPR, TE .2 pts/yd

1QB, 2RB, 2-3 WR, 1-2TE, 1PK, 1 DEF

Team A gave up Tony Romo, Ray Rice

Team B gave up Andy Dalton, Sidney Rice, 2014 2nd and 4th

I rarely make a comment about a trade, but I made a 'wtf' comment on this one. Guy getting Romo/Ray Rice defending the trade as fair. Tell me it is and I'll shut up.

A note regarding the 2014 4th....the first 3 rounds are in May with the 4th commencing in mid-Aug so a very low 4th can be worth more than a normal 4th.

 

Eminence

Footballguy
Maybe Team B is Ray Rice and he knows he's losing the starting gig? Is there any possibility that Team B is run by Ray Rice or possibly Bernard Pierce?

 

Touchdown Syndrome

Footballguy
Romo>>Dalton

Ray>>>>>Sidney

Even with the draft picks, pretty hard to justify this deal (with the given information).

I would not be pleased.

 
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rocketsauce

Footballguy
Unless you can prove collusion, I say it's fair in the eyes of the two owners and that's all that matters.
oh that's horse....

If a trade is bad, its bad. Collusion or not !

Sometimes u have to protect stupid owners (in this case) from themselves.
No, you absolutely do not. If they make repeatedly bad decisions, constantly leaving themselves out of contention, then you can choose not to bring them back to the league the following year. But no other leaguemates have any right or reason to police somebody's else's decisions for their own team. All of this assuming there is no collusion, of course.

People make bad deals. People also blow out ACLs. We can't tell the future, which is why any deal is a good deal, as long as there is no collusion going on.

 
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StrikeS2k

Footballguy
Sometimes u have to protect stupid owners (in this case) from themselves.
I've seen owners get screwed out of going to the SB due to other owners "protecting them from themselves." Unless you've got some super human powers to see the future please don't try to protect others from themselves.

 

KCitons

Footballguy
You could make the argument if one owner helps another owner, (with trades in which he is not involved), he's actually committing collusion.

Every owner pays the same fee. Every owner makes their own decisions on how to run their team.

 

msudaisy26

Footballguy
You could make the argument if one owner helps another owner, (with trades in which he is not involved), he's actually committing collusion.

Every owner pays the same fee. Every owner makes their own decisions on how to run their team.
This, and if the owner makes bad trades every year then maybe you should be offering him some trades or emailing him time to time and see what he is interested in

 

DoubleG

Footballguy
Count me in the "if it's not collusion, you can't 'protect' the owners involved" camp. You can post, complain, make fun of, etc. But you're really just upset you didn't take advantage of the guy who undervalues (in your opinion) Ray Rice.

 

Ilov80s

Footballguy
team B just seems to be sacrificing this year for a great draft next year. If you allow trading of future picks, then you have to be man enough to deal with something like this. It's basically the equivalent of like Romo and Rice for Julio Jones and Drew Brees when you take into account the draft picks.

ETA I must have missed that this is a dynasty, right???

 
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Dragon1952

Footballguy
team B just seems to be sacrificing this year for a great draft next year. If you allow trading of future picks, then you have to be man enough to deal with something like this. It's basically the equivalent of like Romo and Rice for Julio Jones and Drew Brees when you take into account the draft picks.

ETA I must have missed that this is a dynasty, right???
Yes dynasty....and btw, and just to clarify to everyone....I never said a thing about veto, reversing, collusion or anything of the sort. What I said was I rarely say anything about any trade but this one made me go "wtf?" All I ask is that Team B not try to insult my intelligence by trying to convince me that it was a fair trade, and if he continued to do so I could at least point him to this thread for a dose of reality.

 

KCitons

Footballguy
team B just seems to be sacrificing this year for a great draft next year. If you allow trading of future picks, then you have to be man enough to deal with something like this. It's basically the equivalent of like Romo and Rice for Julio Jones and Drew Brees when you take into account the draft picks.

ETA I must have missed that this is a dynasty, right???
Yes dynasty....and btw, and just to clarify to everyone....I never said a thing about veto, reversing, collusion or anything of the sort. What I said was I rarely say anything about any trade but this one made me go "wtf?" All I ask is that Team B not try to insult my intelligence by trying to convince me that it was a fair trade, and if he continued to do so I could at least point him to this thread for a dose of reality.
I get your point that you never referenced veto, etc. The only thing I've learned from playing fantasy football, is that I don't know everything. Last year alone, trades for R Wilson, Kap, or Alf Morris would have raised eyebrows depending on the pieces involved.

Granted this site is all about speculation, but nobody knows who is right, or who is wrong, until the season is over. If anyone knows it all, they should be selling that info, or playing in high $ leagues.

 

Ilov80s

Footballguy
team B just seems to be sacrificing this year for a great draft next year. If you allow trading of future picks, then you have to be man enough to deal with something like this. It's basically the equivalent of like Romo and Rice for Julio Jones and Drew Brees when you take into account the draft picks.

ETA I must have missed that this is a dynasty, right???
Yes dynasty....and btw, and just to clarify to everyone....I never said a thing about veto, reversing, collusion or anything of the sort. What I said was I rarely say anything about any trade but this one made me go "wtf?" All I ask is that Team B not try to insult my intelligence by trying to convince me that it was a fair trade, and if he continued to do so I could at least point him to this thread for a dose of reality.
I don't do dynasty so I don't know enough about thd value of a future 2nd and 4th to comment with real expertise. Are your drafts all rookies or are their hard caps on the number of guys you can keep?

 

TheGreatSpinks

Footballguy
Unless you can prove collusion, I say it's fair in the eyes of the two owners and that's all that matters.
oh that's horse....

If a trade is bad, its bad. Collusion or not !

Sometimes u have to protect stupid owners (in this case) from themselves.
No, you absolutely do not. If they make repeatedly bad decisions, constantly leaving themselves out of contention, then you can choose not to bring them back to the league the following year. But no other leaguemates have any right or reason to police somebody's else's decisions for their own team. All of this assuming there is no collusion, of course.

People make bad deals. People also blow out ACLs. We can't tell the future, which is why any deal is a good deal, as long as there is no collusion going on.
They do when they're throwing in $50-100+ bucks and some joker is clearly tanking.

I'd walk at the end of the season if that kind of non-sense was going on.

 

Ilov80s

Footballguy
Unless you can prove collusion, I say it's fair in the eyes of the two owners and that's all that matters.
oh that's horse....If a trade is bad, its bad. Collusion or not !

Sometimes u have to protect stupid owners (in this case) from themselves.
No, you absolutely do not. If they make repeatedly bad decisions, constantly leaving themselves out of contention, then you can choose not to bring them back to the league the following year. But no other leaguemates have any right or reason to police somebody's else's decisions for their own team. All of this assuming there is no collusion, of course.

People make bad deals. People also blow out ACLs. We can't tell the future, which is why any deal is a good deal, as long as there is no collusion going on.
They do when they're throwing in $50-100+ bucks and some joker is clearly tanking.I'd walk at the end of the season if that kind of non-sense was going on.
In this format with future picks in play, it's hard to say whether it's tanking or building for the future (one in the same?)

 

Ilov80s

Footballguy
The commish should ask Team A to explain the reason he made the trade.
it's obviously to build for next year. Depending on how this leagues dynasty rules work, it may have been a bad move. Without knowing the level of players available next year, that's impossible to say.
 

AngryPatriot

Footballguy
I'm just not in the "let any trade happen" camp. That trade is a joke and shouldn't be allowed. It's beyond good reason. If it was a 2 team league then let them have at it... but it's probably 10-12 team league so players in that division are screwed... or helped, people get pissed, leagues fall apart.

 

Ilov80s

Footballguy
I'm just not in the "let any trade happen" camp. That trade is a joke and shouldn't be allowed. It's beyond good reason. If it was a 2 team league then let them have at it... but it's probably 10-12 team league so players in that division are screwed... or helped, people get pissed, leagues fall apart.
How can you say that without knowing what players may be available next year?

 

Dragon1952

Footballguy
I'm just not in the "let any trade happen" camp. That trade is a joke and shouldn't be allowed. It's beyond good reason. If it was a 2 team league then let them have at it... but it's probably 10-12 team league so players in that division are screwed... or helped, people get pissed, leagues fall apart.
How can you say that without knowing what players may be available next year?
LOL...well the chances of turning a 2 and a 4 into something better than a top 5 RB in his prime on a run heavy team are pretty slim I'd say but I suppose it could happen. And I suppose Sidney Rice could finish ahead of Calvin Johnson this year too. Not sure trading a 26 yr old top 5 RB is a good way to start building for the future though :unsure: If that's the plan then at least get a 1st out of it.

 
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ghostguy123

Footballguy
The commish should ask Team A to explain the reason he made the trade.
it's obviously to build for next year. Depending on how this leagues dynasty rules work, it may have been a bad move. Without knowing the level of players available next year, that's impossible to say.
It's a horrid deal no matter what type of league, unless a salary league with a 30 dollar cap and rice is like 18 bucks

 

ghostguy123

Footballguy
I'm just not in the "let any trade happen" camp. That trade is a joke and shouldn't be allowed. It's beyond good reason. If it was a 2 team league then let them have at it... but it's probably 10-12 team league so players in that division are screwed... or helped, people get pissed, leagues fall apart.
How can you say that without knowing what players may be available next year?
So I guess if someone woulda traded Mathews last year straight up for the 60th pick in the rookie draft, and they took Morris, it woulda been a good deal??

No, a deal is horrible because the value is severely off, like in this one. The way it turns out is pretty irrelevant, because if the guy spend 5 minutes shopping around he woulda got 5x more for Rice

 

monk

Footballguy
Unless you can prove collusion, I say it's fair in the eyes of the two owners and that's all that matters.
oh that's horse....

If a trade is bad, its bad. Collusion or not !

Sometimes u have to protect stupid owners (in this case) from themselves.
More importantly you have to protect the integrety of the league. A trade or two like this can make the balance of power so lopsided it's not even worth it for the other teams to play.

 

golfguy

Footballguy
one of the worst I've ever seen, and I've been doing dynasty leagues since '97.

rice is a top 5-6 back.

romo is a good fantasy qb, way better then dalton.

those picks don't mean anything.

 

Hoss Style

Footballguy
Yeah, the trade looks pretty off, but you can't really say it was "bad" until the end of next season - see who he gets with those picks and how they play.

Even if it turns out good with the "blind squirrel finds a nut" system, it still does.

If he makes trades like this all the time, then don't invite him back in the league. If it's just this one time then ya gotta let it slide.

 

Dragon1952

Footballguy
Hoss Style said:
Yeah, the trade looks pretty off, but you can't really say it was "bad" until the end of next season - see who he gets with those picks and how they play.

Even if it turns out good with the "blind squirrel finds a nut" system, it still does.

If he makes trades like this all the time, then don't invite him back in the league. If it's just this one time then ya gotta let it slide.
And this was just answered by ghostguy 2 posts up,

quote "No, a deal is horrible because the value is severely off, like in this one. The way it turns out is pretty irrelevant, because if the guy spend 5 minutes shopping around he woulda got 5x more for Rice"

 

meyerj31

Footballguy
Romo>>Dalton

Ray>>>>>Sidney

Even with the draft picks, pretty hard to justify this deal (with the given information).

I would not be pleased.
I think you're off by about 400 of the ">" characters here on the Ray Rice comparison....

 
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KCitons

Footballguy
Here is the thing that most of you are choosing to ignore.

Why does an owner make a trade that you deem to be "bad"? If it's collusion, then rules should be in place to address it. If it's tanking in order to get a better draft pick? Rules can address this as well.

After this, you are left with the obvious reason being the owner believes that the trade will help his team. Why do other owners think they have a right to intervene? It's ridiculous. Should you monitor everyone's Blind Bidding or waiver submission's to make sure they are picking up the better player every time? Should you tell a person who to take at each pick in a start up draft? If not, then you are a hypocrite.

It's ok to have an opinion of a trade. To have an action against a trade is pretty #######' arrogant.

 

Hoss Style

Footballguy
Hoss Style said:
Yeah, the trade looks pretty off, but you can't really say it was "bad" until the end of next season - see who he gets with those picks and how they play.

Even if it turns out good with the "blind squirrel finds a nut" system, it still does.

If he makes trades like this all the time, then don't invite him back in the league. If it's just this one time then ya gotta let it slide.
And this was just answered by ghostguy 2 posts up,

quote "No, a deal is horrible because the value is severely off, like in this one. The way it turns out is pretty irrelevant, because if the guy spend 5 minutes shopping around he woulda got 5x more for Rice"
...and you're missing my point.

Maybe he's a lazy owner. Maybe he took the first deal he got. I think it was a "bad" trade, too. But maybe it works out for him in the following years.

Sure, he could have gotten more (probably, maybe other owners are weird, too), but maybe this guy sees something in next years draft and his team is getting old other than those two players.

Maybe other owners hate him and only one other owner will trade with him and raked him over the coals. Maybe, maybe, maybe...

See what I'm saying? I think we all agree it's a questionable trade. I think we just disagree on whether to be up-in-arms about it.

I think we shouldn't, if it's not collusion. If he makes trades like this all the time, and the league doesn't like it, then boot him. But one bad trade doesn't a bad owner make.

I agree with KCitons, above, as well. Do we really think we know everything that's going on in this guy's mind? A bit arrogant. Let him play the way he wants, and maybe he wins the league in a year or two. If everyone's going by the book in a league it's often the person who makes "questionable" moves that has off-the-board players blow up. Who are we to say?

 
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GoodLloydHaveMercy

Footballguy
Why I'd only ever run a dynasty league if owners all paying 5 years in advance :shrug:
We used to have some issues like this... people loading up for future yrs but the problem is then sometimes they quit...

Ive now written it into the rules that if you trade a future pick you have to pay THAT yrs entry fee before the trade goes through... that way if that owner decides NOT to stick it out and stay involved next yr I don't have to worry about the fee keeping people from taking his place.

 

msudaisy26

Footballguy
How is this still going? Go over to the dynasty trade thread, I bet this isn't even the worst dynasty trade in the last 2 week.

 

DoubleG

Footballguy
Romo>>Dalton

Ray>>>>>Sidney

Even with the draft picks, pretty hard to justify this deal (with the given information).

I would not be pleased.
I think you're off by about 400 of the ">" characters here on the Ray Rice comparison....
Slow your roll. I don't own Sidney Rice in any leagues, but the guy did have 83/1342/8 season in '09, is only 26 (almost 27) and rumor has it that Seattle is going to loosen the reigns on the passing game - and Wilson was a pretty good QB last year who will likely only get much better.

Is Ray Rice more valuable? Sure. But Sidney aint exactly chopped liver. We also have no idea what the rest of their rosters look like - maybe the guy trading Rice is stacked at RB and weak at WR - and was just too lazy to pass up the first offer he saw...or maybe he has always liked S. Rice anyway - or Dalton.

 

DreamTheater

Footballguy
I have been reading this thread since OP posted.. I will come out and say that I own Team B.

The trade was proposed to me as Rice, Romo and a 1st rounder for 2014. I honestly didnt want to give up my 1, so I offered the 2 and 4 instead. He accepted. I could have given up the 1 and owners may have still complained.

Like I said to a couple of my leaguemates who assumed that I offered a crap s**t trade, I didnt. Thats what was offered to me, I changed the picks, not the players. He could have said no and insisted on that 1st rd pick.

Looking at his team, trading Romo was acceptable and he has Brees and Bradford for the bye week fill in. Yes, he prob could have gotten much more for Rice, but I took what was offered to me. There was no collusion involved here. 1000% guarantee that.

OP is a good guy it seems, he just wanted to say that he thought it was a unfair trade, and again, it probably isnt a fair trade. But like I said to him, I dont think any other owner in my poistion would have said no.

 

DreamTheater

Footballguy
looking back on this today..If I had to do it all over again, I would keep my original team !

Dalton, Rice and my draft picks !

 

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