Houston Texans Looking At Trading for Schaub (1 Viewer)

[cstu]

Anyone who thinks the Texans got fleeced is crazy. NYG - Manning: an extra first, two seconds and Phillip Rivers.Buf - Losman: A future first round pick to swap a second for a first with Dallas to draft him.Bal - Boller: A future first round pick to swap a second for a first with New England to draft him.In comparison, the Schaub deals looks like a bargain against these three.

Yep, I'm crazy. And I hated those three moves at the time they were made as well. (The Manning and Boller trades were just stupid)That being said, if Kubiak et al think that Schuab can be a great NFL QB, they have to have the courage of their convictions and pull the trigger on something like this. I understand that. I just think they're wrong, esp on a team that has needs across the board.

A few things about the trade:1) Schaub should sign a fairly reasonable deal and definitely less that what a top 10 QB would cost.2) Had they drafted a QB in the 2nd they would need to develop him for a year or two to get where Schaub is now.3) The 2nd next year is a lot to give up but if Schaub can get them wins now I think it's worth it. More wins equals a worse draft for the Falcons next year as well. I do like the direction the Texans are going and think their defense will be a force in a couple years, especially if they add a defensive player in this year's draft like I expect them to do.

 

[stevegamer]

I think the Texans will get something for Carr - a second day pick that conditionally upgrades, probably - but not much.

I'd take a chance on him as a backup, since with an improved OL he'd probably be okay or better.

 

[Sigmund Bloom]

I hope this puts an end to all the questions ive gotten for the last two years about why Schaub is so high in my dynasty rankings.

So where do you rank him? He has started 2 games in his young career, lost both, thrown 6 TDs and 6 INTs. And, he's going to be behind one of the worst OLs in the NFL.

He was already in the top 25 before this news because I always had him as a future starter with top 12-15 upside. I suppose he might jump a few QBs, but this doesnt really change my outlook on him, except that he'll be a nice bye week/injury fantasy QB this year instead of next year.

 

[ImTheScientist]

Is Schaub a top 10 fantasy QB? Where do you rank him? Who gets picked before him and after him?

 

[Sigmund Bloom]

Is Schaub a top 10 fantasy QB? Where do you rank him? Who gets picked before him and after him?

no, and not close, not in that offense. I would say he's backup material for this year, nothing more, around the value of a Losman, Delhomme in a redraft.That being said, I bump up Andre Johnson's outlook with Schaub instead of Carr.

 

[prymetyme25]

Anyone who thinks the Texans got fleeced is crazy.

NYG - Manning: an extra first, two seconds and Phillip Rivers.

Buf - Losman: A future first round pick to swap a second for a first with Dallas to draft him.

Bal - Boller: A future first round pick to swap a second for a first with New England to draft him.

In comparison, the Schaub deals looks like a bargain against these three.

Yep, I'm crazy. And I hated those three moves at the time they were made as well. (The Manning and Boller trades were just stupid)

That being said, if Kubiak et al think that Schuab can be a great NFL QB, they have to have the courage of their convictions and pull the trigger on something like this. I understand that. I just think they're wrong, esp on a team that has needs across the board.

A few things about the trade:1) Schaub should sign a fairly reasonable deal and definitely less that what a top 10 QB would cost.

2) Had they drafted a QB in the 2nd they would need to develop him for a year or two to get where Schaub is now.

3) The 2nd next year is a lot to give up but if Schaub can get them wins now I think it's worth it. More wins equals a worse draft for the Falcons next year as well.

I do like the direction the Texans are going and think their defense will be a force in a couple years, especially if they add a defensive player in this year's draft like I expect them to do.

Just heard on the Local radio 790 espn that he signed a 5 year 20 million dollar contract. Not Bad. Didn't give a signing bonus info yet.

 

[Jason Wood]

I think the Falcons deserve some credit for what they got back in return for Schaub. Regardless of whether or not Schaub proves worth the price, Atlanta didn't have a lot of leverage because most teams knew Schaub wouldn't be franchised next year and would become a UFA; that is, unless Vick was a complete disaster in 2007 AND the new Falcons coaching staff saw enough of Schaub in the interim to pay him top 5 QB money [the price of the franchise tag].

This could very well end up being a deal that worked well for both sides. I'm more of a bird in hand kind of guy, so I have to think Atlanta has a lot of ways it can come out of this looking great; whereas Houston has one way to make this work...Schaub has to be a franchise QB.

 

[Whiplash Inc.]

A king's ransom, if you ask me. Too much, also.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

I think the Falcons deserve some credit for what they got back in return for Schaub.

I think they deserve a TON of credit. They have a bunch of options now. They could se the #8 right where it's at or trade up for any number of players they like - Adrian Peterson, Joe Thomas, one of the DE's.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

1. Atlanta made a committment for better or worse to Michael Vick when he signed that $100 million contract. They were never going to play Matt Schaub ahead of Vick but they did a great job of developing him and allowing other teams to get a whiff of Matt and his abilities. The guy still has never started a season as a #1 QB, we have seen him in short stints and he has looked good.

2. Houston hopefully answers questions about their QB position and Schaub may be that answer for the next decade, time will tell. Kubiak obviously feels like he can mold him so this may be a very good move for Houston who slides down 2 spots, and trades a 2nd this year and next. Where would Matt Schaub be drafted if in theory he could re-enter the NFL draft this season? 1st round for sure.

3. A great move for Atlanta...they slide up ahead of Houston and should they decide to take Marshawn Lynch they can do so. Should they want to move up even higher because this is a team that will likely NOT be picking in the top10 again real soon, then this is going to get real interesting. I bet they are eyeing CJ, Thomas, and Adrian Peterson. Even though we as FF owners may drool a little over Jerious Norwood, that doesn't mean that the new coach likes him as the RB of the future...in fact DUnn and Norwood are both small and Petrino seems to like a bigger back so Peterson and or Lynch could be the guy he wants. Atlanta has invested 1st round picks in Jenkins and White. They also parted with a 1st for Peerless Price and I think Ashlie lelie went for a hefty pick IIRC. A lot of this has not worked out. When RIch McKay was in Tampa they spent high picks on players like Rediel Anthony, Jacquez Green...neither really panned out as NFL stars. The only WR they did right on was Keyshawn and he was a FA when they got him...so McKay does not have a great track record of evaluating WR talent...defense is a different story. Atlanta has a lot more options now and I think the trade will be very good for them as well as Houston.

 

[redman]

I hope this puts an end to all the questions ive gotten for the last two years about why Schaub is so high in my dynasty rankings.

So where do you rank him? He has started 2 games in his young career, lost both, thrown 6 TDs and 6 INTs. And, he's going to be behind one of the worst OLs in the NFL.

He was already in the top 25 before this news because I always had him as a future starter with top 12-15 upside. I suppose he might jump a few QBs, but this doesnt really change my outlook on him, except that he'll be a nice bye week/injury fantasy QB this year instead of next year.

I know next to nothing about Shaub. How do you think he compares, for example, to Cutler, Campbell, Rivers or Eli?

 

[FunkyPlutos]

So, in FF terms...is Schaub a buy or sell guy at this point?

 

[Fiddles]

im liking owen daniels even more now

 

[Ministry of Pain]

So, in FF terms...is Schaub a buy or sell guy at this point?

Both...depends on the terms.

 

[Jason Wood]

I hope this puts an end to all the questions ive gotten for the last two years about why Schaub is so high in my dynasty rankings.

So where do you rank him? He has started 2 games in his young career, lost both, thrown 6 TDs and 6 INTs. And, he's going to be behind one of the worst OLs in the NFL.

He was already in the top 25 before this news because I always had him as a future starter with top 12-15 upside. I suppose he might jump a few QBs, but this doesnt really change my outlook on him, except that he'll be a nice bye week/injury fantasy QB this year instead of next year.

I know next to nothing about Shaub. How do you think he compares, for example, to Cutler, Campbell, Rivers or Eli?

As much as I dislike Cutler, he has a job with a top-flight and consistent offense. Rivers is already a proven commodity and also plays on a great offense, but has the uncertainty of a new coaching staff [admittedly Norv Turner isn't a risky hire though). I wouldn't put Campbell in Schaub's class and would be surprised if the Browns enter the season with Campbell as the starter. Eli is the real X factor. Eli has all the tools physically, but he's shown inconsistencies that are maddening. If' I'm rating these guys for 2007 fantasy purposes:1) Rivers2) Manning3) Cutler4) Schaub......41) CampbellIf I'm rating these guys for dynasty purposes:1) Rivers2) Cutler3) Schaub4) Manning

 

[redman]

I wouldn't put Campbell in Schaub's class and would be surprised if the Browns enter the season with Campbell as the starter.

We're talking about the same Campbell, right? Jason Campbell of the Redskins?

 

[King of the Jungle]

As much as I dislike Cutler, he has a job with a top-flight and consistent offense. Rivers is already a proven commodity and also plays on a great offense, but has the uncertainty of a new coaching staff [admittedly Norv Turner isn't a risky hire though). I wouldn't put Campbell in Schaub's class and would be surprised if the Browns enter the season with Campbell as the starter. Eli is the real X factor. Eli has all the tools physically, but he's shown inconsistencies that are maddening.

Why the hate?

 

[The Man With No Name]

Great deal for Atlanta. Schaub is just an experienced backup with potential who has started 2 games in his career.

 

[King of the Jungle]

Great deal for Atlanta. Schaub is just an experienced backup with potential who has started 2 games in his career.

I think it is a good deal for both sides. IMO Schaub will be a good game manager with upside for a team in desperate need of a quarterback (for a reasonable price contract wise). And of course the Falcons win on the draft side.It will be interesting to see how this pans out over the coming year. If Schaub does well, Houston looks like a genius. Time will tell.

 

[enfuego]

As a Titans fan, I really don't like the way the Texans are shaping up this offseason...As a Schaub dynasty owner

 

[wickster33]

Guess that I'm the only guy who thinks this could vault A Johnson into a top 5 WR position. I always thought that Carr suffered from Bledsoe disease, the inability to make quick reads and get rid of the ball. Its amazing how good the Dallas Oline became after Bledsoe found the bench. I look for a similar resurgence of the Texan offensive line.

In his two starts with Atlanta, Shaub made Brian Finneran look like an all-star

What impact do you guys think this trade will have on Andre

 

[stevegamer]

I hope this puts an end to all the questions ive gotten for the last two years about why Schaub is so high in my dynasty rankings.

So where do you rank him? He has started 2 games in his young career, lost both, thrown 6 TDs and 6 INTs. And, he's going to be behind one of the worst OLs in the NFL.

He was already in the top 25 before this news because I always had him as a future starter with top 12-15 upside. I suppose he might jump a few QBs, but this doesnt really change my outlook on him, except that he'll be a nice bye week/injury fantasy QB this year instead of next year.

I know next to nothing about Shaub. How do you think he compares, for example, to Cutler, Campbell, Rivers or Eli?

I'd put Schaub & Campbell in the same area for dynasty. I'd put Schaub behind the other 3, who all have better situations and have shown more at the NFL level.

 

[fatness]

I hope this puts an end to all the questions ive gotten for the last two years about why Schaub is so high in my dynasty rankings.

I doubt that it does. His first fulltime starter gig will be behind one of the worst O-lines in the league. Maybe after seeing how he plays for 10-16 games.

 

[Houston turmOiler]

As a Titans fan, I really don't like the way the Texans are shaping up this offseason...As a Schaub dynasty owner

What are you worried about? You've got the QB who's going to OWN us forever....

We've signed some old guys who make the roster better overall but can't be considered long-term answers.

And, while I'm pretty happy that I'll never have to watch David Carr play for us again, we're still a long way from respectability. We've got a nice prospect at QB now, Andre Johnson, DeMeco Ryans, and Dunta Robinson. That's about it. The guys we've signed are band-aids at RB, OL, DT, and LB. The secondary and wide receivers are brutal behind Andre and Dunta. Many would say the same thing about the OL. It's going to take a lot more than just one offseason to fix this mess...

 

[King of the Jungle]

As a Titans fan, I really don't like the way the Texans are shaping up this offseason...As a Schaub dynasty owner

What are you worried about? You've got the QB who's going to OWN us forever....

We've signed some old guys who make the roster better overall but can't be considered long-term answers.

And, while I'm pretty happy that I'll never have to watch David Carr play for us again, we're still a long way from respectability. We've got a nice prospect at QB now, Andre Johnson, DeMeco Ryans, and Dunta Robinson. That's about it. The guys we've signed are band-aids at RB, OL, DT, and LB. The secondary and wide receivers are brutal behind Andre and Dunta. Many would say the same thing about the OL. It's going to take a lot more than just one offseason to fix this mess...

Could be worse, you could have to root for the Lion's.

 

[Houston turmOiler]

As a Titans fan, I really don't like the way the Texans are shaping up this offseason...As a Schaub dynasty owner

What are you worried about? You've got the QB who's going to OWN us forever....

We've signed some old guys who make the roster better overall but can't be considered long-term answers.

And, while I'm pretty happy that I'll never have to watch David Carr play for us again, we're still a long way from respectability. We've got a nice prospect at QB now, Andre Johnson, DeMeco Ryans, and Dunta Robinson. That's about it. The guys we've signed are band-aids at RB, OL, DT, and LB. The secondary and wide receivers are brutal behind Andre and Dunta. Many would say the same thing about the OL. It's going to take a lot more than just one offseason to fix this mess...

Could be worse, you could have to root for the Lion's.

Just as bad...Not nearly as long...

 

[twistd]

The Falcons just traded the wrong QB.Good move by the Texans.

I agree completely. I think that two seconds is a fair price for him. I'd also like to see what the contract considerations are. But the Texans got a very good QB prospect in Schaub.

 

[dparker713]

The Falcons just traded the wrong QB.Good move by the Texans.

I agree completely. I think that two seconds is a fair price for him. I'd also like to see what the contract considerations are. But the Texans got a very good QB prospect in Schaub.

Its essentially 2 2nds and a 3rd. They way overpaid. Just plain insanity.

 

[twistd]

jeez reading this topic it's like Schaub was a reincarnation of Elway, Marino, or Manning.newsflash: no OL, QB go bye byeand what they paid for him, WOW, talk about overpayment.

You gotta pay for a QB prospect. I think the Falcons should have traded Vick. Vick will never be a solid NFL QB. It is a lot to give up,but what were their options? They could draft a QB, but then you are looking at three years development. If Schaub can be a Delhomme type QB you have yourself a great deal here. Now use the picks you have to bolster your o-line, like the Jets did, and you are on your way somewhere.

 

[prymetyme25]

The Falcons just traded the wrong QB.Good move by the Texans.

I agree completely. I think that two seconds is a fair price for him. I'd also like to see what the contract considerations are. But the Texans got a very good QB prospect in Schaub.

Its essentially 2 2nds and a 3rd. They way overpaid. Just plain insanity.

huh??? 2.08 pick, 2008 2nd and a swap of 8 & 10

 

[prymetyme25]

The Falcons just traded the wrong QB.Good move by the Texans.

I agree completely. I think that two seconds is a fair price for him. I'd also like to see what the contract considerations are. But the Texans got a very good QB prospect in Schaub.

20 million over 5 years

 

[Sigmund Bloom]

I hope this puts an end to all the questions ive gotten for the last two years about why Schaub is so high in my dynasty rankings.

I doubt that it does. His first fulltime starter gig will be behind one of the worst O-lines in the league. Maybe after seeing how he plays for 10-16 games.

Im referring more to the skepticism about just how highly regarded Schaub was around the league as early as 2005.

 

[prymetyme25]

I hope this puts an end to all the questions ive gotten for the last two years about why Schaub is so high in my dynasty rankings.

I doubt that it does. His first fulltime starter gig will be behind one of the worst O-lines in the league. Maybe after seeing how he plays for 10-16 games.

Believe me the Texans line wasn't as bad as people think it was. Although they gave up alot of sacks, if you watched every game (like I did) you'd see that more than half of the sacks that Carr got were his own fault.

 

[ericttspikes]

ATL got a great deal. This is a desperate move by Houston. Not sure why they think a non-mobile, pocket passer can hold up with that line.

 

[redman]

ATL got a great deal. This is a desperate move by Houston. Not sure why they think a non-mobile, pocket passer can hold up with that line.

There's another school of thought which I thought was well presented by someone at, of all places, the Redskins message board I frequent:

Another way of looking at who got the better end of the deal would be to look at the draft pick value chart. Schaub was a RFA if Houston had tried to sign him they would have had to give up a 1st and a 3rd round choice for him. So assuming mid-round values the 15th pick in the 1st round is worth 1050 points and the 15th pick in the 3rd round is worth 195 points or a total of 1245 points. Of course Houston's picks were better than that so their actual 1st and 3rd were worth about 1900 points. What did they actually pay for Schaub? Switch 1st rounders - worth 200 points, their 2nd rounder this year worth 480 points, and their 2nd rounder next year (worth one later round, i.e. 3rd rounder) worth 220 points = 900 points. They gave up 900 points for Schaub - way less than their 1st and 3rd this year and the equivalent of the 18th pick in the 1st round this year. Now who knows how Schaub will turn out - but he is about the hottest in the NFL qb prospect that's available - so all in all I'd say Houston paid a fair price. Certainly less than if they'd signed him as a RFA.

 

[cstu]

ATL got a great deal. This is a desperate move by Houston. Not sure why they think a non-mobile, pocket passer can hold up with that line.

Yet it wouldn't be a desperate move to draft a QB in the 2nd round this year who might or might not be a bust? Switching 1st's doesn't change much for the Texans since they'll still get the player they need. They are playing to win now and a few more wins next year brings down the value of that 2008 2nd a lot.Just like I said in the Rivers thread, QB's who get to sit on the bench for two years tend to do well when they get a chance to start and Schaub has looked good in the little playing time he has had. Good trade for both teams, IMO.

 

[ericttspikes]

ATL got a great deal. This is a desperate move by Houston. Not sure why they think a non-mobile, pocket passer can hold up with that line.

Yet it wouldn't be a desperate move to draft a QB in the 2nd round this year who might or might not be a bust? Switching 1st's doesn't change much for the Texans since they'll still get the player they need. They are playing to win now and a few more wins next year brings down the value of that 2008 2nd a lot.Just like I said in the Rivers thread, QB's who get to sit on the bench for two years tend to do well when they get a chance to start and Schaub has looked good in the little playing time he has had. Good trade for both teams, IMO.

They realize they f'ed up by passing on VY (and Bush for that matter) last year. They rationalized bypassing Young by saying that they had confidence in Carr and gave him an extension before last years draft. Now they give up 2 high 2nds to get a guy who was hurt in college and has limited NFL experience? Schaub's next win will be his NFL first. What changed in Kubiaks mind from last year to now? Carr improved over 2005 in most categories. Now they go a different direction? If they have a master plan they are hiding it well. What I don't get is what they see in Schaub. They probably could of done a similar deal with one of the top four teams to move up this year and get Quinn, who is at least more mobile. I don't see how a pocket passer will succeed with that line. Atlanta got great return for a 3rd round pick.

 

[ericttspikes]

I hope this puts an end to all the questions ive gotten for the last two years about why Schaub is so high in my dynasty rankings.

I doubt that it does. His first fulltime starter gig will be behind one of the worst O-lines in the league. Maybe after seeing how he plays for 10-16 games.

Believe me the Texans line wasn't as bad as people think it was. Although they gave up alot of sacks, if you watched every game (like I did) you'd see that more than half of the sacks that Carr got were his own fault.

Do you think a pocket passer will suit this system?

 

[cstu]

ATL got a great deal. This is a desperate move by Houston. Not sure why they think a non-mobile, pocket passer can hold up with that line.

Yet it wouldn't be a desperate move to draft a QB in the 2nd round this year who might or might not be a bust? Switching 1st's doesn't change much for the Texans since they'll still get the player they need. They are playing to win now and a few more wins next year brings down the value of that 2008 2nd a lot.Just like I said in the Rivers thread, QB's who get to sit on the bench for two years tend to do well when they get a chance to start and Schaub has looked good in the little playing time he has had. Good trade for both teams, IMO.

They realize they f'ed up by passing on VY (and Bush for that matter) last year. They rationalized bypassing Young by saying that they had confidence in Carr and gave him an extension before last years draft. Now they give up 2 high 2nds to get a guy who was hurt in college and has limited NFL experience? Schaub's next win will be his NFL first. What changed in Kubiaks mind from last year to now? Carr improved over 2005 in most categories. Now they go a different direction? If they have a master plan they are hiding it well. What I don't get is what they see in Schaub. They probably could of done a similar deal with one of the top four teams to move up this year and get Quinn, who is at least more mobile. I don't see how a pocket passer will succeed with that line. Atlanta got great return for a 3rd round pick.

I don't think Quinn > Schaub and Landry (or whoever they take with the #10 pick). Not to mention they would have to pay Quinn a lot more money and could be sitting in the same situation they are now if Quinn is a bust. Even if Schaub doesn't live up to expectations trading for him won't set the team back several years like Carr did.

 

[David Yudkin]

The Texans are asking for a fourth or fifth round pick for Carr and apparently are having trouble garning interest.

As for Schaub, he's clearly someone that is hard to evaluate due to lack of playing time, but half of his career totals came in a single game against the Patriots when their entire starting secondary was hurt a couple of years ago in the stretch where they could not stop ANY offense.

Factoring that game out, his career totals would be

66 COMP, 127 ATT, 51.9%, 735 YDS, 5.8 Y/A, 3 TD, 6 INT

Not a lot to go on either way, but I certainly have not seen him to be the second coming of Dan Marino . . .

 

[prymetyme25]

I hope this puts an end to all the questions ive gotten for the last two years about why Schaub is so high in my dynasty rankings.

I doubt that it does. His first fulltime starter gig will be behind one of the worst O-lines in the league. Maybe after seeing how he plays for 10-16 games.

Believe me the Texans line wasn't as bad as people think it was. Although they gave up alot of sacks, if you watched every game (like I did) you'd see that more than half of the sacks that Carr got were his own fault.

Do you think a pocket passer will suit this system?

As long as he makes good quick decisions he'll fit in good. you dont have to be super fast in this offense just able to boot leg alittle. Thats it. Carr had to be mobile because he couldn't make his reads fast enough to stand in the pockets.

 

[cstu]

The Texans are asking for a fourth or fifth round pick for Carr and apparently are having trouble garning interest.As for Schaub, he's clearly someone that is hard to evaluate due to lack of playing time, but half of his career totals came in a single game against the Patriots when their entire starting secondary was hurt a couple of years ago in the stretch where they could not stop ANY offense. Factoring that game out, his career totals would be 66 COMP, 127 ATT, 51.9%, 735 YDS, 5.8 Y/A, 3 TD, 6 INTNot a lot to go on either way, but I certainly have not seen him to be the second coming of Dan Marino . . .

I think they could live with the second coming of Hasselbeck.

 

[Billy1x]

I hope this puts an end to all the questions ive gotten for the last two years about why Schaub is so high in my dynasty rankings.

I doubt that it does. His first fulltime starter gig will be behind one of the worst O-lines in the league. Maybe after seeing how he plays for 10-16 games.

Believe me the Texans line wasn't as bad as people think it was. Although they gave up alot of sacks, if you watched every game (like I did) you'd see that more than half of the sacks that Carr got were his own fault.

Do you think a pocket passer will suit this system?

Once they get an offensive line in place. Not sure how long that's going to take.

 

[sib]

Getting paid:

Matt Schaub's contract with the Texans is worth $48 million over six years. The deal contains roughly $7 million in guaranteed money.

Starter's money. He'll net $20 million in the first three seasons, before a $10 million option bonus comes due in March 2010. Schaub, 26, was recommended to Gary Kubiak by Bill Musgrave, Al Groh, and Alex Gibbs. Kubiak and Schaub reportedly played a round of golf on Monday that "helped convince Kubiak and Schaub they were made for each other."