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How 'bout them Reds! (3 Viewers)

Timmay said:
Is it worrying anybody else that the Reds aren't doing much of anything this off season?

They didn't exactly end 2013 with a bang, and they are losing pivotal pieces to last years team (Choo, Arroyo?).

As of now, for this team to contend, we have to have Hamilton, Ludwick and Frazier all step up in big ways, along with normal production from our core players.
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Jeff Francis got a spring training invite so there's that :shrug:

Chapman's fastball might be able to lap Francis'.

 
Timmay said:
Is it worrying anybody else that the Reds aren't doing much of anything this off season?

They didn't exactly end 2013 with a bang, and they are losing pivotal pieces to last years team (Choo, Arroyo?).

As of now, for this team to contend, we have to have Hamilton, Ludwick and Frazier all step up in big ways, along with normal production from our core players.
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It seems they have been able to pull of some late deals past couple of years, but yes, I am not too enthused about the lack of improvement.

 
I think they would love to move Phillips so they have the money to at least try and extend Bailey, and if they can't they need to trade Bailey (although i'd had to lose him) and resign Arroyo for two years instead of one - because you just know somebody's gonna come along and offer him two.

If they don't have Bailey resigned before the end of the season there is no chance they can keep him.

I was really suprised the Yanks didn't put an efffort into trying to get BP.

 
I don't want to see either Phillips or Bailey go, but if I had to pick one, it would be Phillips. I just don't think we will get fair trade value for a 2B with that type of cap hit, unless it is a team like the Yankees or another big market team that can afford it.

Realistically I see the Reds letting Bailey walk, and them sticking with Phillips. I hope im wrong and they find a way to keep both.

 
Timmay said:
I don't want to see either Phillips or Bailey go, but if I had to pick one, it would be Phillips. I just don't think we will get fair trade value for a 2B with that type of cap hit, unless it is a team like the Yankees or another big market team that can afford it.

Realistically I see the Reds letting Bailey walk, and them sticking with Phillips. I hope im wrong and they find a way to keep both.
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The Reds have some good minor league pitching prospects in Cingrani, Stephenson and Corcino. There aren't any middle infielders in the system who are close to stepping in.

Phillips' current salary isn't bad by current standards. It could get ugly in his age 35/36 seasons, especially if he can no longer handle 2B defensively but tail end overpays are pretty much the norm in long term contracts these days.

 
Eephus said:
Timmay said:
I don't want to see either Phillips or Bailey go, but if I had to pick one, it would be Phillips. I just don't think we will get fair trade value for a 2B with that type of cap hit, unless it is a team like the Yankees or another big market team that can afford it.

Realistically I see the Reds letting Bailey walk, and them sticking with Phillips. I hope im wrong and they find a way to keep both.
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The Reds have some good minor league pitching prospects in Cingrani, Stephenson and Corcino. There aren't any middle infielders in the system who are close to stepping in.

Phillips' current salary isn't bad by current standards. It could get ugly in his age 35/36 seasons, especially if he can no longer handle 2B defensively but tail end overpays are pretty much the norm in long term contracts these days.
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Corcino took a massive step backwards last year. Lots of concerns following the lack of production he gave in the rotation in the minors. Hopefully he has a bounce back season.

Stephenson is now the #7 overall prospect in baseball. That's a definite fall back if they can't get an extension worked out with Homer.

 
On The Rocks said:
Reds "close" to signing Bailey. 6 years/100 Million

Stunned - and thrilled to hear this news!

http://cincinnati.com/blogs/reds/2014/02/16/report-bailey-rumored-close-to-100m-6-year-deal-with-reds/
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Stunned, but not that excited. I'd rather use the money to lock up Latos and Cueto long term.

Or what about Leake?

Bailey is 49-45 with a 4.25 ERA and 1.32 WHIP in 143 starts.

Leake is 42-29 with a 3.99 ERA and 1.31 WHIP in 109 starts.

I know Bailey's improved every year, but I can't help but think those two no-hitters have him extremely overvalued.

 
shuke said:
On The Rocks said:
Reds "close" to signing Bailey. 6 years/100 Million

Stunned - and thrilled to hear this news!

http://cincinnati.com/blogs/reds/2014/02/16/report-bailey-rumored-close-to-100m-6-year-deal-with-reds/
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Stunned, but not that excited. I'd rather use the money to lock up Latos and Cueto long term.

Or what about Leake?

Bailey is 49-45 with a 4.25 ERA and 1.32 WHIP in 143 starts.

Leake is 42-29 with a 3.99 ERA and 1.31 WHIP in 109 starts.

I know Bailey's improved every year, but I can't help but think those two no-hitters have him extremely overvalued.
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I agree his value is over inflated - I guess I'm excited because I think they were in a spot where they could lose him and get nothing in return. I hate when that happens.

- and I would rather they have signed Arroyo for two years and traded Bailey for a big bat with avg, and used his money at the very least extend Latos, (Cueto, I'm waiting to see how he comes out after not looking great in his late season return last season) - but I sense they dangled both Phillips and Bailey and didn't like anything they were being offered in return.

I think this teams lineup has a ton of question marks and they have to keep the rotation as in tact as possible.

 
I think another factor is just how ridiculous the FA market was this year. I think the Reds intended to be players, but the price tags for anything close to a difference maker were not reasonable. As a result, I think they changed their overall strategy back to locking up the best players on their team to long term deals. 100M in this FA market is just not buying you a better player than Homer Bailey. I think it's that simple. Maybe it should or maybe it shouldn't, but it wouldn't have this year.

I still think Latos will happen which leaves Cueto and Leake as the question marks with Cingrani and (hopefully) Stephenson penciled into the other spots. Cueto and Leake are still 2 years away from having to make a decision. I think the Reds are happy to wait on making a decision. I'm sure Leake would like something now, but Cueto on the other hand knows he could pitch himself into a monster deal between now and then.

Shuke, you should be excited no matter what you think of Homer because it's a clear sign the Reds are nowhere near considering rebuilding in the next several years and are going to spend to try to win with this core.

 
I like that they are taking care of "their" guys. Votto, Bruce, Homer, Cueto.

I want them to take care of Latos when his time comes, I think he will be a beast for years to come. I would rather see Cueto walk out of all our rotation guys, if the Reds were to let someone walk.

I would still like to see a big bat signing next year(no chance it will happen this year). Add a power hitting 3B or LF to what we have already. This offense would be deadly. It's likely a pipe dream for Frazier to be this guy, but would be huge for this team.

 
Timmay said:
I like that they are taking care of "their" guys. Votto, Bruce, Homer, Cueto.

I want them to take care of Latos when his time comes, I think he will be a beast for years to come. I would rather see Cueto walk out of all our rotation guys, if the Reds were to let someone walk.

I would still like to see a big bat signing next year(no chance it will happen this year). Add a power hitting 3B or LF to what we have already. This offense would be deadly. It's likely a pipe dream for Frazier to be this guy, but would be huge for this team.
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I don't think it's a question with Latos. Matter of time. In related news, the odds of a power hitter is equal to the odds that Frazier/Mes/Ludwick become that guy. I will be shocked if we get anyone of substance from the outside unless they can somehow turn magic with a Phillips trade. It's going to be a 60M+ rotation plus Chapman and (for now) Broxton/Marshall. Plus Votto making 200+. At some point, something has to give and all you have to do is look at this offseason to see what it's likely to be. We're not adding an outside bat IMO.

 
The $16M they owe Broxton is the only bad contract they have right now. I'm not a Brandon Phillips fan but you could argue he's slightly below market rate now. The last year of his deal could be a write-off but that seems to be the norm for long-term deals nowadays.

 
I have to say I like the deal. Homer has given some great performances over the last couple years, and I am a fan.

It still amazes me that the Reds have held on to him through the years. The Yankees have been trying to pry him away from us since he was in AA.

I like the homegrown talent and giving players their due. The market is stupid, but its like that throughout. You want a competitive team, you are going to have to accept some high prices and hope you continue to develop players.

Here's to hoping Hamilton can get on base. I will watch games just to see that dude run.

 
What a disappointing game. Good thing the all-day party was a blast.

Few takeaways:

  • Billy looked absolutely lost at the plate. Granted it was vs. Wainwright, but he's not gonna steal 50 bases if he can't get on base. How many times can you look at a called 3rd strike breaking ball before you know it's coming. Come on man. Hopefully it's just "rookie" opening day jitters.
  • Johnny looked fantastic. Small worry in the first inning when he knocked down a ball up the middle, but all was well.
  • Awful baserunning decision by the normally reliable BP when Matt Adams got him in the 8th between 3rd and home. Can't remember if he was sent. Probably was told move on contact. It's either on him or Steve Smith.
  • Manny Parra looked decent. Hopefully he can hold down the fort until Sean Marshall returns.
  • Loved the aggressiveness of Bryan Price, sending Frazier early in the game. Completely caught Molina and Wainwright off guard.
Basically more of the same this year. Great pitching. Outstanding defense. Can't manufacture runs. Top of the lineup can't get on base. There is NO ONE at the bottom of the lineup that keeps the pitchers honest through the middle of the lineup.

Will be interesting to see how quickly Bryan Price tinkers with the lineup if things don't come together out of the gates.

 
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Just read a stat that Cingrani has not allowed more than 5 hits in any of his 19 career starts. It's the longest such stretch for ANY pitcher at ANY point in their career since 1900, and he's done it right out of the gate at 24 years old.

 
heckmanm said:
Just read a stat that Cingrani has not allowed more than 5 hits in any of his 19 career starts. It's the longest such stretch for ANY pitcher at ANY point in their career since 1900, and he's done it right out of the gate at 24 years old.
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If he continues to ascend, he's gonna break the bank if/when the Reds sign him to a long term deal. Dominant lefties carry a major premium.

I don't think he's a FA until 2020 though (Arbitration eligible beginning in 2016).

 
doowain said:
  • Billy looked absolutely lost at the plate. Granted it was vs. Wainwright, but he's not gonna steal 50 bases if he can't get on base. How many times can you look at a called 3rd strike breaking ball before you know it's coming. Come on man. Hopefully it's just "rookie" opening day jitters.
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Probably too early to panic but last night wasn't much better. He attempted that first bunt with the third baseman already a third of the way down the line towards home.

 
shuke said:
doowain said:
  • Billy looked absolutely lost at the plate. Granted it was vs. Wainwright, but he's not gonna steal 50 bases if he can't get on base. How many times can you look at a called 3rd strike breaking ball before you know it's coming. Come on man. Hopefully it's just "rookie" opening day jitters.
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Probably too early to panic but last night wasn't much better. He attempted that first bunt with the third baseman already a third of the way down the line towards home.
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He seems to be pressing right now. I think he even said as much in a post game interview after Opening Day. I have confidence that he'll settle down.

 
There is no way Matt Adams was doing that to keep from going into the stands, he was standing basically upright before the glove hit to the fan. Great catch by the fan, but Adams got the last laugh with a good day at the plate and a W.

 
:lol: at feigning outrage over the Adams/doosh fan exchange.

99% chance dude said something that would make your mother blush after he made the catch. You can see his jaw move as they make eye contact right before the "shove". Adams had no right to do that, and should probably get a small fine/one-game suspension ... but let's not act like he needs to have charges pressed against him or something.

Embrace the rivalry, folks. #NinjaCueto

 
Ghost Rider said:
shuke said:
Seen some blurbs about the Matt Adams thing but surprised it's not getting more.
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Why? It wasn't a shove, like has been misreported. It was a dumb thing to do, but not that big a deal.
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I think it's a big deal when any player initiates contact like that with a fan :shrug:

I'm surprised him being a poosay and not owning up to it after the game isn't getting much play.

 
RnR said:
:lol: at feigning outrage over the Adams/doosh fan exchange.

99% chance dude said something that would make your mother blush after he made the catch. You can see his jaw move as they make eye contact right before the "shove". Adams had no right to do that, and should probably get a small fine/one-game suspension ... but let's not act like he needs to have charges pressed against him or something.

Embrace the rivalry, folks. #NinjaCueto
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Who in here said anything about pressing charges? I thought it was pretty blatant, and am surprised there hasn't been discussion about a suspesion :shrug:

I can't imagine what Cardinal Nation would do if BP did this at Busch.

#STLwhiners

 
I didn't think it was even close to a shove, but I agree that had this been BP in St Louis, we'd be hearing a much bigger uproar.

I'm curious if Adams said anything to the fan after the "shove" to to lead to the middle finger reaction.

Really nothing to see here....it's a non-story in my mind.

 
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On The Rocks said:
I didn't think it was even close to a shove, but I agree that had this been BP in St Louis, we'd be hearing a much bigger uproar.

I'm curious if Adams said anything to the fan after the "shove" to to lead to the middle finger reaction.

Really nothing to see here....it's a non-story in my mind.
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Neither of them said anything to each other before or after the push.

Adams pushed him because he's a POS.

Kid gave him the middle finger because some jackhole just pushed him for no reason.

 
Cardinals fans are too classy to give the middle finger back like that. :D

Again, Adams should not have initiated contact, but LOL at being outraged over what was essentially a love tap.

 
8 posts in this thread since that game ended and every single one of them has been about Matt Adams and the Cardinals (which includes your :lmao: ).

Good luck with getting 2nd place in the Central this year. :cool:

 
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Would you like to converse about that finger-waving classless fan who supposedly is recovering from knee surgery, yet had no problem jumping to his feet and going after a foul ball?

 
It has basically gone viral in the last 18 hours. Every major sports outlet, Deadspin, etc. all have the GIF and a "shoved" headline. I'm not sure why you think it needs more attention than that.

 
Also, not a fair comparison to throw Brandon Phillips into the discussion. He's already stirred that pot so the reaction would be exaggerated. How would this go down if the same thing happened at Busch Stadium with Todd Frazier? Probably much the same way it has gone down with Adams in Cincy.

 
Ghost Rider said:
Would you like to converse about that finger-waving classless fan who supposedly is recovering from knee surgery, yet had no problem jumping to his feet and going after a foul ball?
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I honestly thing the taunting was justified by being pushed. The middle finger was probably a little much. I am not sure what any knee surgery would have anything to do with the situation.

 
RnR said:
Also, not a fair comparison to throw Brandon Phillips into the discussion. He's already stirred that pot so the reaction would be exaggerated. How would this go down if the same thing happened at Busch Stadium with Todd Frazier? Probably much the same way it has gone down with Adams in Cincy.
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Agreed. I'm talking about hypocritical fans, which are part of all fan bases. Would ghost rider call this "love tap" "no big deal" if it was Frazier at Busch? Doubtful.

 
Probably. I would also say it was not necessary, just like I have said that Adams making contact was unnecessary and something he probably shouldn't have done. I am not giving him a free pass by any stretch of the imagination; I just think it is not that big a deal. He should probably get a reprimand from the league office about being careful when it comes to making contact with fans in the stand and nothing else.

 
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