How do you feel about the Patriots? (1 Viewer)

[Chaos Commish]

I apologize if this has been said already...

The problem with the fans in this type of situation, is that many of them mistakenly believe that they know what they're talking about. They say their team is going to win, and they do, repeatedly, not because they have any wisdom or insight, but because their favorite team happens to be very good at that point in time. Those fans get a bit of an inflated opinion of their own opinions, and attempt to speak intelligently about other teams and players. This is usually where people get annoyed, because those fans are still right a lot, because they are still mostly talking about their favorite team, not in the fine details, those are usually still off, but with some creative logic, those opinions can usually be retrofitted too.

They especially annoy those of us who do really know what we're talking about. , but we'll live with it.

This doesn't explain Chase Stuart (aka JetsFan), but not much does.

Very insightful explanation of part of the problem. Just reading the arrogant "business model" bs in this thread validates your point.

 

[TD Ryan]

This is now 4 straight years where the Patriots have been killed by injuries at non-Brady positions. What gives?I have a number of theories ....a) Belichick knows that most of his players are expendable so he works them harder than the body typically would likeb) Belichick knows that injury-prone players are cheaper than durable players so he signs the injury-prone onesc) The field and weather conditions in New England are not conducive to long term healthd) The Patriots have the worst training staff in the league

you forgot:e) they're just un-lucky.

 

[Chaos Commish]

I'll just sum it up by saying, it doesn't matter how you win, it matters IF you win...

I just felt like quoting this.

 

[thesurfshop19]

you forgot:e) they're just un-lucky.

I figured that was coming. At what point do you start looking for trends here?

 

[Reaper]

I hate them and am still bitter about the tuck fumble.

I hope the Colts pound them into obvlion and every Patrior player has their #### bitten off by a horde of wild laplanders after the game. What's more, I hope with every fiber of my being that if it is in fact a close game this week, the Colts win via a long field goal by Vinateri.

You know what always gets me about the tuck whiners? They never acknowledge that there was also a blown call on a shot to the helmet in causing the fumble. First of all, they got the call right. Second of all, even if they had got the call wrong, they still missed a blatant fumble in slapping a QB in the head, so no matter what, it's Pat's ball, first and 10.

does anybody have video of this play? I havent seen it in forever and i have NO recollection of a head slap to the QB. I have always hated this call because i felt brady knocked the ball out of his own hand with his other hand as i recall, and that this was called a fumble the other 1000 times plays like this happened, but again I havent seen it in forever. If there was actually a penalty missed it would make me feel better about this play.

VIDEOThe "Head slap" never existed.

 

[PMENFAN]

They're deeper than any team in the league. We see that year after year. They're decimated by injuries in the secondary again this year.

Serious question: what's the deal with the injuries?I have a number of theories ....a) Belichick knows that most of his players are expendable so he works them harder than the body typically would likeb) Belichick knows that injury-prone players are cheaper than durable players so he signs the injury-prone onesc) The field and weather conditions in New England are not conducive to long term healthd) The Patriots have the worst training staff in the leagueThis is now 4 straight years where the Patriots have been killed by injuries at non-Brady positions. What gives?

I just think it's bad luck. Seriously. It's predominantly the Defensive Backfield, year in and out. This year, pretty much limited to the defensive backfield, Wilfork missed some, and Seau had the grotesque injury. I'd just chalk it up to a run of bad luck. But, watch out when that run clears up.

 

[PMENFAN]

I take the hate as a compliment.

This is what puzzles me.And this is not just a Patriots thing -- although it may be more pronounced for various reasons (proliferation of the Internet, Red Sox winning at the same time, ESPN's proximity to Boston, etc.).

When the Broncos won back-to-back Super Bowls and people hated them, how am I even in the picture? I'm just a fan. Yes, I supported the team when it was down, contributed by buying merchandise, and therefore feel like I'm part of the championship, but at the end of the day ... what did I really do?

I understand that Northeast fans are a different breed. The color of the sky depends on whether the Red Sox won or lost the previous day. I get that. But what do the championships have to do with the fans? The championships are won for the fans, not by the fans.

Therefore, smack talk like "talk to you when your team actually wins anything" is hollow and reeks of grade school mentality. It's not even like this is your college team or your high school team. This is a bunch of mercenaries hired to play in your name. Tom Brady is from California and was a 49er fan growing up.

Hey, I lived in Denver from 93 to 2004. Bronco fans are no less boisterous or loyal. In fact, since you brought the color of the sky into the equation, there's a popular on in Denver, "If God's not a Bronco fan, how come Sunsets are Blue and Orange?". I have no problem with fan loyalty. Believe me, I respect the Broncos organization. Hate the Broncos, it's faced since Sharpe left, and yes it's largely because of the beatdowns put on the Pats, while I was living there, and the infamous phone call by Sharpe in Foxboro (speaking of classless acts on the BB today) If this board were up and active, and the Bronco fans were here, they'd have been getting the same title of whiny tools that Pats are. When you're on top, you wear a bulls eye.

 

[TD Ryan]

I figured that was coming. At what point do you start looking for trends here?

IMO, the injuries to their WRs over the past years had a lot to do with those players' size and the roles they were asked to play... smaller guys like Branch, Patten, Brown being asked to play "posession" and "over the middle" roles.As for their DBs... I don't know. Rodney Harrison was no youngster when they got him so it's no surprise that he's missed time. As for the rest, some of them have been journeyman/veteran type players, guys with some miles on them but then there's been Samuel, Wilson, and Hobbs... all younger guys who've missed time.And is it really a case of "NE suffers more injuries" than the norm or just that you hear about it more because they've been able to, for the most part, overcome a lot of them and everything then gets hyped in the post season?Is there a stat kept for #players injured and/or amount of games missed?

 

[PatsFan72]

...Just reading the arrogant "business model" bs in this thread validates your point.

Ya, you'll notice they don't talk about the 'Carroll' years in that business plan much.There's another part that may go into making Patriots fan a little more hated then some others. Let's call it the Dennis Leary factor. Leary's attitude on his early stand-up is pretty indicative of the harsh insulting attitude of many Boston/Worcester people. We insult people openly, but also expect to get insulted back. We rub things in, and do it with love. That's not always appreciated by other people. You can see this type of conflict when the Red Sox finally got back to the World Series in 2004, and we were talking it up with the St. Louis fans, and most of them weren't saying anything back. They were being . . .polite?!? It threw us for a loop. You're supposed to be posturing and talking smack, that's what we've been doing for 100 years with New York fans, it almost lessons the experience if others don't give it back to you.So when we're laughing and insulting you for being the latest victim of my beloved Patriots, just remember, it's done out of love.

 

[TD Ryan]

... and we were talking it up with the St. Louis fans, and most of them weren't saying anything back. They were being . . .polite?!?

that was all I ever heard from Boston fans talking about those STL fans... STL fans were the nicest people you could ever meet.Who are the meanest, nastiest fans? Boston, New York, Philly, Chi... and you know, it's probably no coincidence that it's cold, and windy, and rainy, and snowy, and hard in those cities... and they are steeped in tradition.it reminds me of the statement about the Middle East:"You know why there will never be peace in the middle east? because it's hot... really f'n hot and there isn't a lot of water"we're all products of our environment I guess.

 

[PatsFan72]

...Who are the meanest, nastiest fans? Boston, New York, Philly, Chi... and you know, it's probably no coincidence that it's cold, and windy, and rainy, and snowy, and hard in those cities... and they are steeped in tradition...

I think it has more to do with being in a confined space too. In the big cities, people are constantly in some sort of competition of conflict with each other, whether it's merging into traffic, or women fighting for the 75% off Coach purse, or jobs, housing, etc etc etc . . . add that into the bad weather and classes being so close, getting ugly turns into a way of life, almost an art form with some.

 

[PMENFAN]

I hate them and am still bitter about the tuck fumble.

I hope the Colts pound them into obvlion and every Patrior player has their #### bitten off by a horde of wild laplanders after the game. What's more, I hope with every fiber of my being that if it is in fact a close game this week, the Colts win via a long field goal by Vinateri.

You know what always gets me about the tuck whiners? They never acknowledge that there was also a blown call on a shot to the helmet in causing the fumble. First of all, they got the call right. Second of all, even if they had got the call wrong, they still missed a blatant fumble in slapping a QB in the head, so no matter what, it's Pat's ball, first and 10.

does anybody have video of this play? I havent seen it in forever and i have NO recollection of a head slap to the QB. I have always hated this call because i felt brady knocked the ball out of his own hand with his other hand as i recall, and that this was called a fumble the other 1000 times plays like this happened, but again I havent seen it in forever. If there was actually a penalty missed it would make me feel better about this play.

VIDEOThe "Head slap" never existed.

I'll agree you can't see it in any of those shots. From the front camera angle, which I've seen many times, and watch the next time you see it, or catch the game on replay on NFLN, or Greatest Games, etc. The front angles clearly shot Woodson slapping Brady in the head with his right hand. It's a moot point, but it happened. It's not a hard shot, but it's a penalty, or should have been. Is it a "head slap", Deacon Jones style? Nope; but you can't give the QB a shot to the head, and couldn't at that time either.

 

[PMENFAN]

...Just reading the arrogant "business model" bs in this thread validates your point.

Ya, you'll notice they don't talk about the 'Carroll' years in that business plan much.There's another part that may go into making Patriots fan a little more hated then some others. Let's call it the Dennis Leary factor. Leary's attitude on his early stand-up is pretty indicative of the harsh insulting attitude of many Boston/Worcester people. We insult people openly, but also expect to get insulted back. We rub things in, and do it with love. That's not always appreciated by other people. You can see this type of conflict when the Red Sox finally got back to the World Series in 2004, and we were talking it up with the St. Louis fans, and most of them weren't saying anything back. They were being . . .polite?!? It threw us for a loop. You're supposed to be posturing and talking smack, that's what we've been doing for 100 years with New York fans, it almost lessons the experience if others don't give it back to you.So when we're laughing and insulting you for being the latest victim of my beloved Patriots, just remember, it's done out of love.

Pete was bad, but Bobby Grier was throwing around money like a drunken submariner on shore for the first time in six months. 'What, you need a contract? Here, we need a player. How much you need? Can you play football, by the way?"

 

[thesurfshop19]

Hey, I lived in Denver from 93 to 2004. Bronco fans are no less boisterous or loyal. In fact, since you brought the color of the sky into the equation, there's a popular on in Denver, "If God's not a Bronco fan, how come Sunsets are Blue and Orange?". I have no problem with fan loyalty. Believe me, I respect the Broncos organization. Hate the Broncos, it's faced since Sharpe left, and yes it's largely because of the beatdowns put on the Pats, while I was living there, and the infamous phone call by Sharpe in Foxboro (speaking of classless acts on the BB today) If this board were up and active, and the Bronco fans were here, they'd have been getting the same title of whiny tools that Pats are. When you're on top, you wear a bulls eye.

I don't doubt that Denver fans don't have their share -- or more than their share -- of crazed fans. I lived in Boulder until 1990 and haven't been back to Colorado much since (but having moved to Cincinnati in the 90s obviously I wouldn't switch loyalties!) so I've been very detached from it all.Interesting insights!

And I absolutely know about the "whiny tool" angle -- after people called the Broncos lucky for beating the Packers there was a ton of whining and "no respect" from my fellow fans. (I thought it was funny -- what do I care if someone else doesn't respect my team?)

 

[Da Guru]

The first SB I thought was a gift with "The tuck rule".

Then I wanted them to win, then I wanted them to lose. Now I just respect them for turning over personel and still being the the hunt every year.

 

[PatsFan72]

Pete was bad, but Bobby Grier was throwing around money like a drunken submariner on shore for the first time in six months. 'What, you need a contract? Here, we need a player. How much you need? Can you play football, by the way?"

Ya, I can't think of one player that he brought in that was any good. I'm sure I'm over looking someone, but he had about as much of a nose for talent as Matt Millen with all the restraint of Tara Reid.

 

[Chaos Commish]

Pete was bad, but Bobby Grier was throwing around money like a drunken submariner on shore for the first time in six months. 'What, you need a contract? Here, we need a player. How much you need? Can you play football, by the way?"

Ya, I can't think of one player that he brought in that was any good. I'm sure I'm over looking someone, but he had about as much of a nose for talent as Matt Millen with all the restraint of Tara Reid.

I really miss the good old days.

 

[TD Ryan]

Pete was bad, but Bobby Grier was throwing around money like a drunken submariner on shore for the first time in six months. 'What, you need a contract? Here, we need a player. How much you need? Can you play football, by the way?"

Ya, I can't think of one player that he brought in that was any good. I'm sure I'm over looking someone, but he had about as much of a nose for talent as Matt Millen with all the restraint of Tara Reid.

Grier brough in every guy who looked good "on paper"... all these big, fast, specimens... who had absolutely no idea how to play football.It was the complete antithesis of what goes on now.ETA (5th round and earlier picks)Grier's notable hits:Milloy (2nd), Bruschi (3rd), Robert Edwards (1), D Woody (1), K Faulk (2)Grier's misses:Glenn, H Irwin, C Sullivan, K Barber, Christian Peter, Tebucky, G Spires, Tony Simmons, Katzenmoyer, T George, D Fletcher, J Cherry... and more.

 

[Rovers]

I hate 'em. I respect 'em. I'm a Jets fan.

 

[parasaurolophus]

I hate them and am still bitter about the tuck fumble.

I hope the Colts pound them into obvlion and every Patrior player has their #### bitten off by a horde of wild laplanders after the game. What's more, I hope with every fiber of my being that if it is in fact a close game this week, the Colts win via a long field goal by Vinateri.

You know what always gets me about the tuck whiners? They never acknowledge that there was also a blown call on a shot to the helmet in causing the fumble. First of all, they got the call right. Second of all, even if they had got the call wrong, they still missed a blatant fumble in slapping a QB in the head, so no matter what, it's Pat's ball, first and 10.

does anybody have video of this play? I havent seen it in forever and i have NO recollection of a head slap to the QB. I have always hated this call because i felt brady knocked the ball out of his own hand with his other hand as i recall, and that this was called a fumble the other 1000 times plays like this happened, but again I havent seen it in forever. If there was actually a penalty missed it would make me feel better about this play.

VIDEOThe "Head slap" never existed.

I'll agree you can't see it in any of those shots. From the front camera angle, which I've seen many times, and watch the next time you see it, or catch the game on replay on NFLN, or Greatest Games, etc. The front angles clearly shot Woodson slapping Brady in the head with his right hand. It's a moot point, but it happened. It's not a hard shot, but it's a penalty, or should have been. Is it a "head slap", Deacon Jones style? Nope; but you can't give the QB a shot to the head, and couldn't at that time either.

This type of discussion is one of the problems i have with that play. I can't for the life of me think that woodson should have been flagged. If woodson should be flagged for that, than that means NE should be flagged for what happened against rivers when he was trying to spike the ball. Here is a little tidbit...A penalty could be called on pretty much every play. I bet a DL grazed his pinky on the QBs helmet on 20% of the sacks that occurred this year. Is it really fair to call that penalty, even though the words in the book may say something like "any contact to the head of a qb". Of course not. If it isnt called 95% of the time, I dont care what the rule says. That means the 5% of the time it is called, they are wrong. That means they are picking and choosing, and that is garbage. The only conclusion that can be drawn from a call going one way only 1 out of 100 times, is favoritism. You can quote the rule to me all you want, but if it is never called and then out of the blue in a playoff game it is used, wtf else am I supposed to think?

Had anybody even ever heard of the tuck rule? Does anybody feel like that was the first time they saw that exact play happen?

 

[PatsFan72]

Grier brough in every guy who looked good "on paper"... all these big, fast, specimens... who had absolutely no idea how to play football.It was the complete antithesis of what goes on now.ETA (5th round and earlier picks)Grier's notable hits:Milloy (2nd), Bruschi (3rd), Robert Edwards (1), D Woody (1), K Faulk (2)Grier's misses:Glenn, H Irwin, C Sullivan, K Barber, Christian Peter, Tebucky, G Spires, Tony Simmons, Katzenmoyer, T George, D Fletcher, J Cherry... and more.

I thought Grier came in '97, along with Carroll. Bruschi and Milloy were in '96.Tony Simmons, I almost forgot about the jacked mutha. Man, was a wishing he had some talent.

 

[BassNBrew]

I think one of the most annoying things about the Pats is the whole "team" thing. Like all the other teams in the league are entirely full of players that hate each other, only want money, and don't care about winning.

Nope, it's about less talented guys working hard and using their heads to accomplish great things.

There it is

Do you refute that?

surfshop covered it.We get it, they were big underdogs to the flashy Rams. It's 2007, they have some pretty damn good players. They aren't a bunch of talentless hard workers.

So how come Troy Brown isn't starting elsewhere?

 

[ozark]

Question: How many WR's can New England's CB's hold ?

 

[PatsWillWin]

Had anybody even ever heard of the tuck rule? Does anybody feel like that was the first time they saw that exact play happen?

Actually it happened earlier that season to the Patriots playing against the Jets. Testaverde dropped what looked like a clear fumble, and it was overruled and the Tuck Rule was the explanation for it.

 

[AB in DC]

Love em or Hate em?

I'm a Patriots fan. They are my favorite team. [ 55 ] ** [25.58%]I don't mind the Patriots. They aren't "my team" but I can appreciate them as long as they aren't playing "my team" [ 55 ] ** [25.58%]I'm pretty tired of them winning. I find them to be an annoyance. [ 24 ] ** [11.16%]I really don't like them. I'd like it if they faded away for good. [ 27 ] ** [12.56%]I can't stand the Patriots. I always want them to lose. [ 54 ] ** [25.12%]

Combine the third and fourth responses (which are very similar sentiments) and you've practically got a four way tie.55 Love Em55 Like Em, 51 Dislike Em54 Hate Em.

 

[brobe4]

I don't mind the Patriots. They aren't "my team" but I can appreciate them as long as they aren't playing "my team

Pats are a great football team and well deserved.

Go Colts!!!!

 

[nerangers]

When many talk about the "fans" I really assume you are talking about posters on this message board. I don't think you can really speak for a whole fan base and put a tag on them. I cheer for a football team the same as everyone else here does. When they win I am extremely happy, when they lose, I get mad. Everyone here on these boards defend their teams (or you really wouldn't be a fan as defined on this board). Some more vocal than others...but I think that is all right. I do think on these boards the fans have to defend the Pats more since many feel they are just lucky in most of their wins. Maybe if the Patriots would just start blowing teams out it would be better? Easier to stomach? I don't know.

We talked about this a little at work where there are mainly Eagle/Steeler fans, with a few other teams thrown into the mix. It wasn't as much as people didn't like the Patriots, as much as they want to see somebody else win. Maybe people are done with Dynasty teams and want variety?

 

[nerangers]

Had anybody even ever heard of the tuck rule? Does anybody feel like that was the first time they saw that exact play happen?

Actually it happened earlier that season to the Patriots playing against the Jets. Testaverde dropped what looked like a clear fumble, and it was overruled and the Tuck Rule was the explanation for it.

I also think it happened in the Pats vs. Rams game earlier that season as well...to Kurt Warner.

 

[TD Ryan]

Grier brough in every guy who looked good "on paper"... all these big, fast, specimens... who had absolutely no idea how to play football.It was the complete antithesis of what goes on now.ETA (5th round and earlier picks)Grier's notable hits:Milloy (2nd), Bruschi (3rd), Robert Edwards (1), D Woody (1), K Faulk (2)Grier's misses:Glenn, H Irwin, C Sullivan, K Barber, Christian Peter, Tebucky, G Spires, Tony Simmons, Katzenmoyer, T George, D Fletcher, J Cherry... and more.

I thought Grier came in '97, along with Carroll. Bruschi and Milloy were in '96.Tony Simmons, I almost forgot about the jacked mutha. Man, was a wishing he had some talent.

you may be right...Grier was with the NE front office for a long time before he really had "power" in choosing/drafting players. I believe Terry Glenn was Grier's guy in '96 (and Parcells fought against it... the whole "buy the groceries" quote).Maybe Glenn was Grier's guy and the next 2 picks of '06 (Milloy, Bruschi) were Parcell's guys?either way, it really was a lesson for NE, including Bob Kraft and the fans. A bad front office will kill your team just as easily as a bad Quarterback. I think it's why Belichick, Kraft, and Pioli are valued as (or nearly? or about?) as much as Brady. Then you look across town and Jacobs/Sinden/O'Connell were destroying the Bruins' franchise...So, to try and stay on topic here; there's a lot that's gone wrong in Boston sports and it just provides local fans even more perspective with this current Patriots team. In a blink of an eye, you could be back in the toilet, so enjoy it while it's here.

 

[Reaper]

Had anybody even ever heard of the tuck rule? Does anybody feel like that was the first time they saw that exact play happen?

Actually it happened earlier that season to the Patriots playing against the Jets. Testaverde dropped what looked like a clear fumble, and it was overruled and the Tuck Rule was the explanation for it.

I also think it happened in the Pats vs. Rams game earlier that season as well...to Kurt Warner.

I believe the play in the Jets game went against the Jets on a Brady play where (Again) he wasn't throwing the ball but was "Credited" with an incomplete... I'd love to find info on this or tape.But, it's funny how On that night, We ALL watched and saw what we believed was a certain play and then overnight Pats fans became experts on this obscure rule, able to point out when and where it happened and recite it word for word. And when that wasn't enough, someone somewhere needed to trump up the charges and cite some blow to the head....The Media hounded the Pats calling them one of the worst and luckiest SB champs ever and Pats fans everywhere needed to fight and battle for respect from Non-Pat fans everywhere who Know what they saw.And so, the Whiny Tool was born.

 

[Devilsden2001]

[And so, the Whiny Tool was born.

Thank you I think

 

[Tau837]

...And so, the Whiny Tool was born.

 

[PMENFAN]

Had anybody even ever heard of the tuck rule? Does anybody feel like that was the first time they saw that exact play happen?

Actually it happened earlier that season to the Patriots playing against the Jets. Testaverde dropped what looked like a clear fumble, and it was overruled and the Tuck Rule was the explanation for it.

I also think it happened in the Pats vs. Rams game earlier that season as well...to Kurt Warner.

I believe the play in the Jets game went against the Jets on a Brady play where (Again) he wasn't throwing the ball but was "Credited" with an incomplete... I'd love to find info on this or tape.But, it's funny how On that night, We ALL watched and saw what we believed was a certain play and then overnight Pats fans became experts on this obscure rule, able to point out when and where it happened and recite it word for word. And when that wasn't enough, someone somewhere needed to trump up the charges and cite some blow to the head....The Media hounded the Pats calling them one of the worst and luckiest SB champs ever and Pats fans everywhere needed to fight and battle for respect from Non-Pat fans everywhere who Know what they saw.And so, the Whiny Tool was born.

Actually, I didn't become an expert on the rule overnight. Nor am I an expert on the rule now. But, the call has been talked to death by the experts, and they all say the call was correct, according to the rule. I just agree with them. I have seen Woodsons slap to Bradys head many times. If you see the camera andles looking from the front, it's clear, Woodson slaps him in the head. So what. Say they got lucky there. They STILL had to drive, kick that field goal. Drive, kick another. Go into Pittsburgh and beath the #1 Steelers, and then go to NO and beat the Greatest Show on Turf. That play was big, but hardly the only thing that gave them the Lombardi that season.

 

[Devilsden2001]

Had anybody even ever heard of the tuck rule? Does anybody feel like that was the first time they saw that exact play happen?

Actually it happened earlier that season to the Patriots playing against the Jets. Testaverde dropped what looked like a clear fumble, and it was overruled and the Tuck Rule was the explanation for it.

I also think it happened in the Pats vs. Rams game earlier that season as well...to Kurt Warner.

I believe the play in the Jets game went against the Jets on a Brady play where (Again) he wasn't throwing the ball but was "Credited" with an incomplete... I'd love to find info on this or tape.But, it's funny how On that night, We ALL watched and saw what we believed was a certain play and then overnight Pats fans became experts on this obscure rule, able to point out when and where it happened and recite it word for word. And when that wasn't enough, someone somewhere needed to trump up the charges and cite some blow to the head....The Media hounded the Pats calling them one of the worst and luckiest SB champs ever and Pats fans everywhere needed to fight and battle for respect from Non-Pat fans everywhere who Know what they saw.And so, the Whiny Tool was born.

Actually, I didn't become an expert on the rule overnight. Nor am I an expert on the rule now. But, the call has been talked to death by the experts, and they all say the call was correct, according to the rule. I just agree with them. I have seen Woodsons slap to Bradys head many times. If you see the camera andles looking from the front, it's clear, Woodson slaps him in the head. So what. Say they got lucky there. They STILL had to drive, kick that field goal. Drive, kick another. Go into Pittsburgh and beath the #1 Steelers, and then go to NO and beat the Greatest Show on Turf. That play was big, but hardly the only thing that gave them the Lombardi that season.

Lets not forget the biggest hurdle that we faced which was when Brady went down in Pittsburgh and Bledsoe had to come in and close out the game. We all know that Bledsoe S U C K S

 

[PatsWillWin]

Lets not forget the biggest hurdle that we faced which was when Brady went down in Pittsburgh and Bledsoe had to come in and close out the game. We all know that Bledsoe S U C K S

I was still in the Bledsoe camp at that point. When Brady went down, I was watching the game with a group of people. They were in stunned silence. I jumped out of my chair cheering. Bledsoe then goes 3 for 3 and scores a TD. Woop woop. I'm glad he got to contribute something positive to the team on the field that season - otherwise he'd have gotten a ring when all he did was start them off 0-2. Obviously he didn't contribute as much as he would've liked, but he won them the AFC Championship game, and that's no small contribution.

 

[Sweeper]

I think that a "homer" option would have been nice so we could see see the difference between hometown fans and nfl fans.

 

[PatsWillWin]

Had anybody even ever heard of the tuck rule? Does anybody feel like that was the first time they saw that exact play happen?

Actually it happened earlier that season to the Patriots playing against the Jets. Testaverde dropped what looked like a clear fumble, and it was overruled and the Tuck Rule was the explanation for it.

I also think it happened in the Pats vs. Rams game earlier that season as well...to Kurt Warner.

I believe the play in the Jets game went against the Jets on a Brady play where (Again) he wasn't throwing the ball but was "Credited" with an incomplete... I'd love to find info on this or tape.But, it's funny how On that night, We ALL watched and saw what we believed was a certain play and then overnight Pats fans became experts on this obscure rule, able to point out when and where it happened and recite it word for word. And when that wasn't enough, someone somewhere needed to trump up the charges and cite some blow to the head....The Media hounded the Pats calling them one of the worst and luckiest SB champs ever and Pats fans everywhere needed to fight and battle for respect from Non-Pat fans everywhere who Know what they saw.And so, the Whiny Tool was born.

Actually I think the Whiny Tool that was born was the Oakland Raider fan who, five years removed from the play, cannot still understand why it was not a fumble. Every expert that has discussed it since has agreed it was the right call. Just because it was not a well known rule among NFL fans does not mean it was a valid rule.But of course, you've heard all this "logic" before and discounted it, so please, don't let me get in the way of your #####ing. After all, it's only been half a decade.

 

[TD Ryan]

Actually, I didn't become an expert on the rule overnight. Nor am I an expert on the rule now. But, the call has been talked to death by the experts, and they all say the call was correct, according to the rule. I just agree with them.

I have seen Woodsons slap to Bradys head many times. If you see the camera andles looking from the front, it's clear, Woodson slaps him in the head.

So what. Say they got lucky there. They STILL had to drive, kick that field goal. Drive, kick another. Go into Pittsburgh and beath the #1 Steelers, and then go to NO and beat the Greatest Show on Turf. That play was big, but hardly the only thing that gave them the Lombardi that season.

the list of "lucky breaks" would be long if we had to make one for every team that won the SuperBowl.

IF the Pats faded into obscurity after '01, there may have been more merit to the claims that Brady and NE just lucky. It's almost laughable now.

Their success is a combination of many things and luck has on occasion been one of those things.

and finally, I take a bit of exception to the Bledsoe bashing.

Parcells and Bledsoe put Patriots' football on the map; we were a sorry bunch before they arrived. That's why the team was so likeable then, they weren't a threat to anyone.

Certainly Drew had his faults, mainly the he never imporved the multitude of minor imperfections in his game, but he's a stand up guy and a good citizen. There's no reason for NE to hate Bledsoe.

 

[Reaper]

Had anybody even ever heard of the tuck rule? Does anybody feel like that was the first time they saw that exact play happen?

Actually it happened earlier that season to the Patriots playing against the Jets. Testaverde dropped what looked like a clear fumble, and it was overruled and the Tuck Rule was the explanation for it.

I also think it happened in the Pats vs. Rams game earlier that season as well...to Kurt Warner.

I believe the play in the Jets game went against the Jets on a Brady play where (Again) he wasn't throwing the ball but was "Credited" with an incomplete... I'd love to find info on this or tape.But, it's funny how On that night, We ALL watched and saw what we believed was a certain play and then overnight Pats fans became experts on this obscure rule, able to point out when and where it happened and recite it word for word. And when that wasn't enough, someone somewhere needed to trump up the charges and cite some blow to the head....The Media hounded the Pats calling them one of the worst and luckiest SB champs ever and Pats fans everywhere needed to fight and battle for respect from Non-Pat fans everywhere who Know what they saw.And so, the Whiny Tool was born.

Actually I think the Whiny Tool that was born was the Oakland Raider fan who, five years removed from the play, cannot still understand why it was not a fumble

... Here we go. 1) I'm not a Raider fan.... I think on this issue it's Pats fans Vs Most everyone else.2) Everyone knows and understands the rule NOW, it's a bad rule, the fact is, the QB did not intend to throw the ball, he was getting hit and tried to save his ###... The defense Made the play but, got nailed on a technicality. If that call isnt' made, I don't think anything is ever said about it and we probably sit here today without "TUCK RULE' as such a part of our vocabulary.It's easy to justify and point to this rule now but, you know when that play happened, Brady (Smirk) and the majority of Pat fans thought it was all over.Thanks for Digging this stuff up... GO COLTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[PatsWillWin]

... Here we go. 1) I'm not a Raider fan.... I think on this issue it's Pats fans Vs Most everyone else.2) Everyone knows and understands the rule NOW, it's a bad rule, the fact is, the QB did not intend to throw the ball, he was getting hit and tried to save his ###... The defense Made the play but, got nailed on a technicality. If that call isnt' made, I don't think anything is ever said about it and we probably sit here today without "TUCK RULE' as such a part of our vocabulary.It's easy to justify and point to this rule now but, you know when that play happened, Brady (Smirk) and the majority of Pat fans thought it was all over.Thanks for Digging this stuff up... GO COLTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I DEFINITELY thought it was all over. I still don't see why that's even relevant. A rule is a rule regardless of what "the majority of Pats fans thought".

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

... Here we go. 1) I'm not a Raider fan.... I think on this issue it's Pats fans Vs Most everyone else.2) Everyone knows and understands the rule NOW, it's a bad rule, the fact is, the QB did not intend to throw the ball, he was getting hit and tried to save his ###... The defense Made the play but, got nailed on a technicality. If that call isnt' made, I don't think anything is ever said about it and we probably sit here today without "TUCK RULE' as such a part of our vocabulary.It's easy to justify and point to this rule now but, you know when that play happened, Brady (Smirk) and the majority of Pat fans thought it was all over.Thanks for Digging this stuff up... GO COLTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I DEFINITELY thought it was all over. I still don't see why that's even relevant. A rule is a rule regardless of what "the majority of Pats fans thought".

luckiest team on the planet

 

[monstermerriman]

I'm Matt Lights b i a t c h yo

 

[Devilsden2001]

I'm Matt Lights b i a t c h yo

 

[PatsWillWin]

I'm Matt Lights b i a t c h yo

 

[parrot]

... Here we go. 1) I'm not a Raider fan.... I think on this issue it's Pats fans Vs Most everyone else.2) Everyone knows and understands the rule NOW, it's a bad rule, the fact is, the QB did not intend to throw the ball, he was getting hit and tried to save his ###... The defense Made the play but, got nailed on a technicality. If that call isnt' made, I don't think anything is ever said about it and we probably sit here today without "TUCK RULE' as such a part of our vocabulary.It's easy to justify and point to this rule now but, you know when that play happened, Brady (Smirk) and the majority of Pat fans thought it was all over.Thanks for Digging this stuff up... GO COLTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I DEFINITELY thought it was all over. I still don't see why that's even relevant. A rule is a rule regardless of what "the majority of Pats fans thought".

Exactly. I'm pretty sure that on Sunday most Pat's fans thought Vincent Jackson had control of the ball then fumbled it on the goal line. Except the rule says has to go to the ground, or make a football move or blah blah blah... It's a bad rule, but it's the rule. People act as if the tuck rule is the first and last time a bad rule has acted in one team's favor.

 

[parrot]

Had anybody even ever heard of the tuck rule? Does anybody feel like that was the first time they saw that exact play happen?

Actually it happened earlier that season to the Patriots playing against the Jets. Testaverde dropped what looked like a clear fumble, and it was overruled and the Tuck Rule was the explanation for it.

I also think it happened in the Pats vs. Rams game earlier that season as well...to Kurt Warner.

I believe the play in the Jets game went against the Jets on a Brady play where (Again) he wasn't throwing the ball but was "Credited" with an incomplete... I'd love to find info on this or tape.But, it's funny how On that night, We ALL watched and saw what we believed was a certain play and then overnight Pats fans became experts on this obscure rule, able to point out when and where it happened and recite it word for word. And when that wasn't enough, someone somewhere needed to trump up the charges and cite some blow to the head....The Media hounded the Pats calling them one of the worst and luckiest SB champs ever and Pats fans everywhere needed to fight and battle for respect from Non-Pat fans everywhere who Know what they saw.And so, the Whiny Tool was born.

Non-Pats fans bring this up at every opportunity, Pats fans then point that the rule was correctly interpreted. Rinse. Repeat. But it's the Pats fans who are Whiny Tools.

 

[parasaurolophus]

Had anybody even ever heard of the tuck rule? Does anybody feel like that was the first time they saw that exact play happen?

Actually it happened earlier that season to the Patriots playing against the Jets. Testaverde dropped what looked like a clear fumble, and it was overruled and the Tuck Rule was the explanation for it.

I also think it happened in the Pats vs. Rams game earlier that season as well...to Kurt Warner.

I believe the play in the Jets game went against the Jets on a Brady play where (Again) he wasn't throwing the ball but was "Credited" with an incomplete... I'd love to find info on this or tape.But, it's funny how On that night, We ALL watched and saw what we believed was a certain play and then overnight Pats fans became experts on this obscure rule, able to point out when and where it happened and recite it word for word. And when that wasn't enough, someone somewhere needed to trump up the charges and cite some blow to the head....The Media hounded the Pats calling them one of the worst and luckiest SB champs ever and Pats fans everywhere needed to fight and battle for respect from Non-Pat fans everywhere who Know what they saw.And so, the Whiny Tool was born.

Actually I think the Whiny Tool that was born was the Oakland Raider fan who, five years removed from the play, cannot still understand why it was not a fumble. Every expert that has discussed it since has agreed it was the right call. Just because it was not a well known rule among NFL fans does not mean it was a valid rule.But of course, you've heard all this "logic" before and discounted it, so please, don't let me get in the way of your #####ing. After all, it's only been half a decade.

I would disagree that every expert has discussed it and agreed that it wasnt a fumble. I would also like to add that if it had been ruled a fumble, many "experts" would have analyzed it and agreed it was a fumble. I watched the video of the NFL rules official explaining it and it cracked me up. He said that because it hadnt been brought back into his body or raised back up to pass that it was still being tucked so the rule applied. The guy even mentions how brady brings it to his other hand. The rule states that "even if the player loses possession of the ball as he is attempting to tuck it back toward his body". What if brady isnt trying to tuck it into his body? What if he planned on just keeping it out there so he could throw it again? The point is, in the NFL rules are not as clear cut as they are in tennis or other sports. There is almost always interpretation. The minute refs decide to "let them play" NFL rulebooks are thrown out the window as being ironclad.Can I see how the refs ruled it the way they did? Sure. It was a new rule, the league had been educated on it recently. If the rule would have been 20 years old I would bet it would have been ruled a fumble. This is certainly a very controversial call. It was a very lucky call. I am a packers fan. So naturally I support instant replay. But to say this call is clear as day is naive.But hey what the heck would we debate if they hadnt ruled it that way? Cause there is no way in hell anybody who started a thread on these boards saying the patriots got jobbed because according to the tuck rule that was an incomplete pass would ever be taken seriously.