How many top five qurterbacks are in the league? (1 Viewer)

[Arodin]

As the saying goes, “there are lies, damn lies, and statistics.”

It is certainly possible to have over a dozen people considered “top 5,” just as it is easily possible to have a majority of the population “above average.”

In this case, it is because there is more than one way to rank QBs.  Top 5 in win production?  Win shares?  Total yardage?  Touchdowns?  Fantasy points?  Points per game?  ADP?

All it takes is for someone to place in the top 5 on any of those lists to be legitimately classified “top 5.”  And never mind the more frivolous lists like “contract dollars,” “arrests per season” or “letters in the last name.”  (Ben does very well there and should remain competitive well into his 70’s!)

Of course the dialogue going on here about which QBs really are best is much more valuable than this side point, but as a statistics teacher when not on these boards I can’t turn down a chance to point out statistical “weasel words” like top-5.

 

[Stinkin Ref]

As the saying goes, “there are lies, damn lies, and statistics.”

It is certainly possible to have over a dozen people considered “top 5,” just as it is easily possible to have a majority of the population “above average.”

In this case, it is because there is more than one way to rank QBs.  Top 5 in win production?  Win shares?  Total yardage?  Touchdowns?  Fantasy points?  Points per game?  ADP?

All it takes is for someone to place in the top 5 on any of those lists to be legitimately classified “top 5.”  And never mind the more frivolous lists like “contract dollars,” “arrests per season” or “letters in the last name.”  (Ben does very well there and should remain competitive well into his 70’s!)

Of course the dialogue going on here about which QBs really are best is much more valuable than this side point, but as a statistics teacher when not on these boards I can’t turn down a chance to point out statistical “weasel words” like top-5.

this is kind of the point the OP was trying to make....you can turn on almost any radio/tv and hear someone who is supposed to be an expert or whose opinion we are supposed to give credit too ..and names will start creeping into the teens of guys who are somehow considered a top 5 QB....

I think much of the back and forth in here has been....who really are the top 5 guys right now......problem is some want to factor in lifetime achievement and some do not.....

 

[ZenoRazon]

this is kind of the point the OP was trying to make....you can turn on almost any radio/tv and hear someone who is supposed to be an expert or whose opinion we are supposed to give credit too ..and names will start creeping into the teens of guys who are somehow considered a top 5 QB....

I think much of the back and forth in here has been....who really are the top 5 guys right now......problem is some want to factor in lifetime achievement and some do not.....

It does get funky.

How can anyone put a guy with only two seasons of NFL experience,  has never won anything over a guy who has won everything with a ton of NFL experience because of....one great stat....season?   I can't do it.

 

[Stinkin Ref]

It does get funky.

How can anyone put a guy with only two seasons of NFL experience,  has never won anything over a guy who has won everything with a ton of NFL experience because of....one great stat....season?   I can't do it.

I feel we are getting closer....lol....I think you even admitted earlier that there really is/was more to what Mahomes showed last year than just one great (historical) statistical season.....that if someone was going to break down the doors of your "longevity" fortress you use to guard your top 5 castle....it is probably him.... 

its ok to admit it....it's not going to hurt anybody......it doesn't make you less of a football fan or discredit your view of NFL history if you agree that right now Mahomes is probably in the conversation of one of the top 5 QB's....its not blasphemy......its probably more crazy if you don't....actually....

 

[King of the Jungle]

Best dang qurterbacks out there are Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Luck, Wilson, Mahomes.

 

[ZenoRazon]

I feel we are getting closer....lol....I think you even admitted earlier that there really is/was more to what Mahomes showed last year than just one great (historical) statistical season.....that if someone was going to break down the doors of your "longevity" fortress you use to guard your top 5 castle....it is probably him.... 

its ok to admit it....it's not going to hurt anybody......it doesn't make you less of a football fan or discredit your view of NFL history if you agree that right now Mahomes is probably in the conversation of one of the top 5 QB's....its not blasphemy......its probably more crazy if you don't....actually....

Trendarvis Friday ran a 10.00 as just a HS kid, that is the HS record, what has he done since.......nothing.

RGIII had a better rookie season than Russell Wilson, need I go on?

Derrick Florence ran a 10.13 in HS, that was the then HS record, what did he do at Texas A&M...nothing.

Jerry Rice sucked his rookie season.

Going into season four it was....O.J.Simpson a bust?

Peyton Manning threw how many INT's his rookie season?

The Falcons can't use Bret Favre, so dump him.

The Steelers cut Johnny Unitas.

The Oilers cut Steve Largent.

John Elway had more INT's than TD's his first 4 seasons.  His comp % as a rookie.....47.5.

And it goes on and on and.........

Just slow down a little and give things some time is all I;m saying.  Don't get too giddy over anything too soon.

 

[steelers1080]

fantasy football rankings is a whole nutha discussion.....that doesn't always translate to the "best QB's".....

Oh, oops. I assumed it was top 5 Fantasy QBs. 

1. Tom Brady
   
2. Drew Brees
   
3. Ben Roethlisberger
   
4. Aaron Rodgers
   
5. Patrick Mahomes
   

I rank them in that order because that's who I'd want QBing my team in the playoffs.  I think that Wilson and Luck are very talented, but I trust these 5 more in high stress situations. Some of the young QBs have a lot of talent and I think will be stars for a long time if they stay healthy, Watson and Baker, but aren't proven enough for me. 

 

[Jacksonke1]

As we know from watching games and playing DFS, etc., there are probably 15 QBs who can be top 5 any given week. One way to consider it might be the ones with the most top 5 weekly  finishes over the course of the season.

We all know who has the look on paper and who we'd want on any given Sunday, but doesn't always play out that way obviously.

 

[Anarchy99]

Like anything else, if there is no definition of what Top 5 means, of course there will be a lot of people in the running. For example, is it intended to mean . . .

- Best NFL QB's at the moment
- Best fantasy QB's at the moment
- Best QB's based on passer rating
- Best QB's based on winning %
- Best QB's based on SB rings
- Best QB's based on playoff performance
- QB you want for your team if you had to win one individual game
- QB with the best career ahead of him
- QB that will lead his team the farthest this season
- QB that most likely will be MVP this season

You get the point . . . there are a lot of different ways to call some one "Top 5."
 

 

[efactor]

Jerry Rice sucked his rookie season.

While he did have some bad drops his rookie year, he still had 49 catches for over 900 yards, averaging just short of 19 yards per catch, so he hardly sucked.  He also only started 4 games, so not like they were feeding him the ball.  He flashed a lot of skill his rookie year, so expectations were high going into 1986.  Obviously not GOAT high, but anyone who watched SF on a consistent basis knew the skills were there to be something special.

Same with Mahomes.  He has all the physical skills along with the passion and football IQ (I know, I know). Definitely a top 5 QB from a pure football standpoint going into this season and #1 option for fantasy.   Plus, the guy is a blast to watch.  Not a KC fan, but I make it a point to watch or record their game every week.  

 

[Stinkin Ref]

Like anything else, if there is no definition of what Top 5 means, of course there will be a lot of people in the running. For example, is it intended to mean . . .

- Best NFL QB's at the moment
- Best fantasy QB's at the moment
- Best QB's based on passer rating
- Best QB's based on winning %
- Best QB's based on SB rings
- Best QB's based on playoff performance
- QB you want for your team if you had to win one individual game
- QB with the best career ahead of him
- QB that will lead his team the farthest this season
- QB that most likely will be MVP this season

You get the point . . . there are a lot of different ways to call some one "Top 5."
 

I don't look at it based on stats.....I kind of like the approach of right now..."who don't I want to see on the other sideline"....with a mix of @steelers1080 approach of who I would want QB'ing my team in the playoffs....

 

[mphtrilogy]

Brady, Brees, Mahomes, Luck, ARodgers are the current top 5 for me..

Franchise qb’s list are a lot longer

 

[BassNBrew]

Why ignore Mariota 11td/8INT?

Brees, had a great season  how can you say.....a shell of himself.....with a 74.4 comp % and his best ever 115.7 passer rating?  And....32/5...TD/INT is great. A shell of himself???

I'm not comparing him to Mariotta.  I'm just pointing out that 74.4 / 115.7 was built on dumpoffs you could have completed.  If you watched him at the end of the year, you would understand.

 

[ZenoRazon]

While he did have some bad drops his rookie year, he still had 49 catches for over 900 yards, averaging just short of 19 yards per catch, so he hardly sucked.  He also only started 4 games, so not like they were feeding him the ball.  He flashed a lot of skill his rookie year, so expectations were high going into 1986.  Obviously not GOAT high, but anyone who watched SF on a consistent basis knew the skills were there to be something special.

Same with Mahomes.  He has all the physical skills along with the passion and football IQ (I know, I know). Definitely a top 5 QB from a pure football standpoint going into this season and #1 option for fantasy.   Plus, the guy is a blast to watch.  Not a KC fan, but I make it a point to watch or record their game every week.  

I'm a Niner fan, go all the way back to the days of Y.A.Tittle, J.D.Smith, R.C. Owens, and knew all about those Willie Totten to Jerry "World" Rice at MVS where they broke all kinds of records. Saw Rice shine in the Blue Grey All Star game.

Yes as a rookie Rice sucked.

Too Deep Zone: Jerry Rice, Rookie Bust

by Mike Tanier

Twenty-one years ago this week, Bill Walsh stood before the skeptical Bay Area media and defended a controversial decision. He told them that the 49ers' troubled rookie wide receiver would remain a starter despite several bad performances.

The rookie's name was Jerry Rice.

The 49ers, fresh off a victory in Super Bowl XIX, were 6-5 and fighting for their playoff lives. Joe Montana's passing numbers were off. Rice, the team's top draft pick, had 26 receptions in 11 games, but he also dropped 10 balls, some of them at the worst possible times. He was coming off a game in which he dropped two passes, fumbled once, and caught just one pass. Niners fans booed the rookie; local columnists made him the butt of jokes. Freddie Solomon, a respected veteran who caught touchdown passes in 10 straight games in 1984, had become the invisible man in the Niners offense while Montana and Rice played pitch 'n' drop.

But Walsh held his ground, supported Rice, and kept him in the weekly gameplan. "At some point, the boos will turn to cheers," predicted Walsh during a press conference on November 18th, 1985.

That point was only a few weeks away.

I saw all those games, Rice was looking like a bust.

 

[ZenoRazon]

I'm not comparing him to Mariotta.  I'm just pointing out that 74.4 / 115.7 was built on dumpoffs you could have completed.  If you watched him at the end of the year, you would understand.

Trust me I understand, I know what a 74.4/115.7 means.Who has ever done that, well?

He was anything but....a shell of himself.....hell 32/5 TD/INT.

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

Like anything else, if there is no definition of what Top 5 means, of course there will be a lot of people in the running. For example, is it intended to mean . . .

- Best NFL QB's at the moment
- Best fantasy QB's at the moment
- Best QB's based on passer rating
- Best QB's based on winning %
- Best QB's based on SB rings
- Best QB's based on playoff performance
- QB you want for your team if you had to win one individual game
- QB with the best career ahead of him
- QB that will lead his team the farthest this season
- QB that most likely will be MVP this season

You get the point . . . there are a lot of different ways to call some one "Top 5."
 

I just get amused by the talking heads on sports shows who, when speaking to half the Q.B.'s in the league call them a "top five Q.B.."  Lots of fans do to.  I find the expression nearly worthless and incredibly uninformative, yet they have a look like they are imparting wisdom to me.

 

[bostonfred]

Has there ever been a year that eli manning would even have been in the top ten? 

 

[BassNBrew]

Has there ever been a year that eli manning would even have been in the top ten? 

Yes

 

[Men-in-Cleats]

Tom Brady

Drew Brees/Aaron Rodgers

Russell Wilson/Big Ben

All have won the SB all will be in the Hall of Fame.

Mahomes needs to back it up, (if he loses Hill, that won't help)

Then a big drop off to the next gang which can be debatable but who really cares.

Not sure what to do with Eli Manning.

Uh, this is a topic about the top 5 QB's in the league, why would his name even cross your mind at this time?  He isn't in the top 20 QB's in the league right now and he's never before even sniffed the top 5.  I'm not so positive he'd have ever made my top 10 in a given year.  Hell, his best season statistically was 2015 and he still was 13th in quarterback rating (obviously not a perfect statistic to nab but it was available and it encompasses a number of critical passing statistics).  If he hadn't had those two crazy playoff runs his career would be practically the same as Andy Dalton's.

 

[efactor]

I'm a Niner fan, go all the way back to the days of Y.A.Tittle, J.D.Smith, R.C. Owens, and knew all about those Willie Totten to Jerry "World" Rice at MVS where they broke all kinds of records. Saw Rice shine in the Blue Grey All Star game.

Yes as a rookie Rice sucked.

Too Deep Zone: Jerry Rice, Rookie Bust

by Mike Tanier

Twenty-one years ago this week, Bill Walsh stood before the skeptical Bay Area media and defended a controversial decision. He told them that the 49ers' troubled rookie wide receiver would remain a starter despite several bad performances.

The rookie's name was Jerry Rice.

The 49ers, fresh off a victory in Super Bowl XIX, were 6-5 and fighting for their playoff lives. Joe Montana's passing numbers were off. Rice, the team's top draft pick, had 26 receptions in 11 games, but he also dropped 10 balls, some of them at the worst possible times. He was coming off a game in which he dropped two passes, fumbled once, and caught just one pass. Niners fans booed the rookie; local columnists made him the butt of jokes. Freddie Solomon, a respected veteran who caught touchdown passes in 10 straight games in 1984, had become the invisible man in the Niners offense while Montana and Rice played pitch 'n' drop.

But Walsh held his ground, supported Rice, and kept him in the weekly gameplan. "At some point, the boos will turn to cheers," predicted Walsh during a press conference on November 18th, 1985.

That point was only a few weeks away.

I saw all those games, Rice was looking like a bust.

I saw them all too and never once thought he was a bust. The fact that sports columnists were ridiculing him means jack shiot  

The skills were obvious. 

 

[ZenoRazon]

I saw them all too and never once thought he was a bust. The fact that sports columnists were ridiculing him means jack shiot  

The skills were obvious. 

Few people outside the SWAC knew about Rice. Those of us aware of his MVS exploits knew just how great he was.  BUT.....if you didn't know about who he really was his rookie season did him no favors, I....what is wrong with Rice?....many times that rookie season.  Knowing what I did about him, yep, a sucky rookie season.

And everybody who makes $$$$$ writing about sports usually knows sports.

 

[Maven25]

Few people outside the SWAC knew about Rice. Those of us aware of his MVS exploits knew just how great he was.  BUT.....if you didn't know about who he really was his rookie season did him no favors, I....what is wrong with Rice?....many times that rookie season.  Knowing what I did about him, yep, a sucky rookie season.

And everybody who makes $$$$$ writing about sports usually knows sports.

Stephen A Smith is a direct contradiction to this statement.

Example of not knowing NFL:

https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/patriots/stephen-smiths-error-riddled-chargers-take-left-tedy-bruschi-baffled

Showing that he makes $$$$$:

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2829381-report-stephen-a-smith-to-sign-record-setting-10m-per-year-espn-contract

 

[travdogg]

Uh, this is a topic about the top 5 QB's in the league, why would his name even cross your mind at this time?  He isn't in the top 20 QB's in the league right now and he's never before even sniffed the top 5.  I'm not so positive he'd have ever made my top 10 in a given year.  Hell, his best season statistically was 2015 and he still was 13th in quarterback rating (obviously not a perfect statistic to nab but it was available and it encompasses a number of critical passing statistics).  If he hadn't had those two crazy playoff runs his career would be practically the same as Andy Dalton's.

Agreed, and I'd take it a step further. I'd argue Eli Manning is the worst starting QB in the NFL. He offers a ceiling of below average play, and is expensive. If I were a Giants fan, I'd rather they start Kyle Lauletta, sure he might not be any good, but at least there is a chance. Eli has value as a backup for a contender, but as a starter for a team going nowhere, he only makes them even worse.

 

[JohnnyU]

Oh yeah, I might need to revise my earlier post and add Luck. 

Get to it man

 

[Anarchy99]

Agreed, and I'd take it a step further. I'd argue Eli Manning is the worst starting QB in the NFL. He offers a ceiling of below average play, and is expensive. If I were a Giants fan, I'd rather they start Kyle Lauletta, sure he might not be any good, but at least there is a chance. Eli has value as a backup for a contender, but as a starter for a team going nowhere, he only makes them even worse.

My (low) opinion on Eli is well documented, but I disagree with the part about him having value as a backup to a contender. He would only have value to a contender with TONS of extra cap room. If Manning were to be traded, his new team would have to pay him $17 million in salary, roster bonuses, and per game incentives. Who has that kind of money just hanging around to pay a back up QB? And once the trade went through, the Giants would have to take on an $11.2 million cap hit to account for the prorated share of his signing bonus.

So in a roundabout way, he would only have value to the Giants, and in your scenario, that would be as a back up to a better starter (which as of today the Giants don't have). It will be interesting to see what the future would hold if the Giants take a QB in the first round next week and what their exit strategy is to move on from Eli.

 

[SeniorVBDStudent]

Brady, Brees, Rodgers, xxxxx, yyyyy

 

[JohnnyU]

Here are my top 5 under the age of 31.  I don't think you can put much dynasty value in the geezers.

1 - Patrick Mahomes - 23

2 - Andrew Luck - 29

3 - Russell Wilson - 30

4 - Baker Mayfield - 24

5 - DeShaun Watson - 23

 

[travdogg]

My (low) opinion on Eli is well documented, but I disagree with the part about him having value as a backup to a contender. He would only have value to a contender with TONS of extra cap room. If Manning were to be traded, his new team would have to pay him $17 million in salary, roster bonuses, and per game incentives. Who has that kind of money just hanging around to pay a back up QB? And once the trade went through, the Giants would have to take on an $11.2 million cap hit to account for the prorated share of his signing bonus.

So in a roundabout way, he would only have value to the Giants, and in your scenario, that would be as a back up to a better starter (which as of today the Giants don't have). It will be interesting to see what the future would hold if the Giants take a QB in the first round next week and what their exit strategy is to move on from Eli.

I meant value as in helping the team. I agree, at his current salary he has no value to anyone.

I guess I'm saying that the Giants should have traded/cut him years ago, and if they had, assuming he didn't just retire, he'd have value as a backup making 7-8 million a year. He should really be in the same spot as guys like Tannehill and Tyrod Taylor, only older. Like late career Mark Brunell.

 

[ZenoRazon]

Stephen A Smith is a direct contradiction to this statement.

Example of not knowing NFL:

https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/patriots/stephen-smiths-error-riddled-chargers-take-left-tedy-bruschi-baffled

Showing that he makes $$$$$:

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2829381-report-stephen-a-smith-to-sign-record-setting-10m-per-year-espn-contract

Must have missed that word....usually..huh?

 

[Bronco Billy]

 I don't think you can put much dynasty value in the geezers.

What an odd statement.  Guys who are legit threats to be the top scorer at their position, are plug & play, and allow teams to build strength in the draft at other positions because of their reliability have substantial value in dynasty leagues, IMO.

 

[Tau837]

Wilson is good, but inferior results and stats compared to Mahommes

Dude.

First off, every QB had inferior results and stats compared to Mahomes last season. That said, since this is about top 5 QBs, which I take to mean the 5 QBs who are best at playing the QB position right now, I don't think your comparison to Mahomes is on point. Context matters:

• Reid >>>> Carroll/Brian Schottenheimer for offense
  
• Hill >>>> any WR on Seattle last season
  
• Kelce >>>> any TE on Seattle last season
  
• KC OL >>>> SEA OL last season
  

So, yeah, it's apples and oranges here... I'm fine saying Mahomes is a top 5 QB right now, but IMO so is Wilson, so the comparison is moot for purposes of the thread.

 

[Ghost Rider]

To those putting Luck ahead of Wilson, are y'all crazy?