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How much better Bush than DeAngelo? (1 Viewer)

Rev

Footballguy
Hype aside, how much better is Reggie than DeAngelo. In light of Williams' impressive show at camp and stellar college career, the two are beginning to converge in my book.

Please try to chime in without all the "best back in 30 years" hype for Bush. Just measurables and observable skills will do... :yes:

 
Hype aside, how much better is Reggie than DeAngelo. In light of Williams' impressive show at camp and stellar college career, the two are beginning to converge in my book.

Please try to chime in without all the "best back in 30 years" hype for Bush. Just measurables and observable skills will do... :yes:
From what I've measured and observed, Bush might be the best back in 30 years.
 
"How much" better? :shrug:

How do you measure this? In picks, in yards, points, what?

FWIW, Reggie might be the next LT / Fauk, while DeAngelo might be a somewhat stronger Tiki Barber (ETA, CurMar works too). Now, it took Tiki a couple years to get rolling, but I don't think DeAngelo will have that problem.

In any event, there are valid comparisons to HOFers for both.

 
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"How much" better? :shrug:

How do you measure this? In picks, in yards, points, what?

FWIW, Reggie might be the next LT / Fauk, while DeAngelo might be a somewhat stronger Tiki Barber (ETA, CurMar works too). Now, it took Tiki a couple years to get rolling, but I don't think DeAngelo will have that problem.

In any event, there are valid comparisons to HOFers for both.
Using the above comparisons (although I generally dislike these comparisons) LT was the 2nd RB in my PPR dynasty league last year and Tiki was 4th with about a 30 pt difference.I'm thinking that for fantasy purposes the cost/gain of moving from 1.02 to 1.01 in my rookie draft is just too high.

 
Both of them ran up huge numbers against crappy Ds in college - but only one of them was surrounded on O by a bunch of future NFL players at other positions.

I like Williams more than Bush as a pro just because I think Williams will be able to do more (like power run through trash) and because of the much more favorable height/weight ratio. Because of that, I think Williams will be a much more consistent FF RB, while Bush will have wild spikes in his production.

 
Both of them ran up huge numbers against crappy Ds in college - but only one of them was surrounded on O by a bunch of future NFL players at other positions.

I like Williams more than Bush as a pro just because I think Williams will be able to do more (like power run through trash) and because of the much more favorable height/weight ratio. Because of that, I think Williams will be a much more consistent FF RB, while Bush will have wild spikes in his production.
I agree, but only if he is in a good situation.DeAngelo Williams is the only RB that compares to last years Big 3 in my book. Reggie Bush is nice, but I've not seen anything really special.

I'm almost glad my first round pick this year comes at #9 in my Dynasty league. If anyone does wind up passing on Bush he's either going to look like a friggin genius or a complete dolt.

 
Reggie Bush is nice, but I've not seen anything really special.
I do think that Bush's speed & burst is incredible - the best I can remember since Gale Sayers. That said, that advantage in his ability is going to be negated quite a bit going from college to the pros, where the Ds play with such incredible speed overall. That's going to take some of Bush's game away.Again, IMO.
 
Reggie Bush is nice, but I've not seen anything really special.
:eek: WOW! :eek: I've just got to ask you if you've actually seen him play very much? I'm not a USC fan or anything, but I've seen quite a number of their games over the last 3 years and he has made plays that made jaw drop to the ground and with some frequency.

 
I actually don't have Bush that much higher than DeAngelo in a dynasty. I think both have the potential to be the next Faulk (Bush) and Emmitt (DeAngelo). For me it wouldn't be worth trading up to get Bush if I had the #2 and if someone offered me a good deal I would not hesitate to move down to #2.

 
Both of them ran up huge numbers against crappy Ds in college - but only one of them was surrounded on O by a bunch of future NFL players at other positions.

I like Williams more than Bush as a pro just because I think Williams will be able to do more (like power run through trash) and because of the much more favorable height/weight ratio. Because of that, I think Williams will be a much more consistent FF RB, while Bush will have wild spikes in his production.
:goodposting: Refreshing to see someone post their own opinion and give sound reasoning why...

Of course you are probably flat out wrong (just kidding)

My opinion is that Bush will be a better nfl player than a fantasy owner (FWIW, I traded for the #1 pick)

 
Reggie Bush is nice, but I've not seen anything really special.
:eek: WOW! :eek: I've just got to ask you if you've actually seen him play very much? I'm not a USC fan or anything, but I've seen quite a number of their games over the last 3 years and he has made plays that made jaw drop to the ground and with some frequency.
Not counting the Bowl's, think it was 3 or 4 games last year I saw. The previous couple of years I can't say as I remember a single play from him.He looks very fast and makes quick decisions on his cuts. That's about it and both of which run against subpar D's, which typically have very slow LB's / secondaries. Both of those right there can make him seem more explosive.

ALL of his skills can be negated by NFL quality linebackers, not to mention the safties.

Like I said, nice, but nothing I'd blow my load over.

 
Both of them ran up huge numbers against crappy Ds in college - but only one of them was surrounded on O by a bunch of future NFL players at other positions.

I like Williams more than Bush as a pro just because I think Williams will be able to do more (like power run through trash) and because of the much more favorable height/weight ratio. Because of that, I think Williams will be a much more consistent FF RB, while Bush will have wild spikes in his production.
:goodposting:
 
Interesting that we've all settled on Williams as 1.02, when the draft guides don't seem to be as convinced that Williams is better than Maroney.

 
Bush and Williams are not in the same league as propects. Come on now. Could Bush falter in the NFL, of course, but he has all the skills to be great (speed, hands (probably the best receiver in this draft), and vision). Add 10 pounds to his frame and he could be a complete RB-

I watched Williams and he reminds me of J.J. Arrington in college. My guess is that Williams will be drafted in the same neighborhood as JJ (#44 overall).

 
I watched Williams and he reminds me of J.J. Arrington in college. My guess is that Williams will be drafted in the same neighborhood as JJ (#44 overall).
Wow. I don't see that at all. Could you please expound a bit?
 
I ride in the "Both are going to be very good" bus.

That said the main reason I like Bush more is his ability to take it to the house from any spot on the field at anytime, in both running or catching the ball out of the backfield. Those are the plays that win you your weekly matchup, and there are only really a handful of backs that have that ability. The 82 yard TD is simply a dagger lots of guys don't carry.

 
I watched Williams and he reminds me of J.J. Arrington in college.  My guess is that Williams will be drafted in the same neighborhood as JJ (#44 overall).
Wow. I don't see that at all. Could you please expound a bit?
Alright, both are the same height/weight (5'9" 210) and from what I saw over their last season in college, their running style is similar. As for their senior stats, they are almost identical.As for stats:

Arrington (2004 season):

He was voted a consensus first-team All-American and was the country's only 2,000-yard rusher. He not only led the NCAA in total rushing yards and yards per carry, but was also the only player to rush for 100-plus yards in every game, as he gained the most yards by a Pac-10 rusher since Marcus Allen of Southern California totaled 2,427 yards in 1981.

Williams (2005)

2005 Honors: C-USA 1st Team All-Conference, C-USA Offensive Player of the Year, AFCA 1st Team All-American, Walter Camp 1st Team All-American, AP 2nd Team All-American

Rushed for 2,052 yards

To me they are similar.

 
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Alright, both are the same height/weight (5'9" 210) and from what I saw over their last season in college, their running style is similar. 
I could care less about honors & the rest. You really think their running styles are similar? I see Williams as a RB who enters a pile with anger & moves it. I see Arrington as a RB who seees a pile & falls down before he gets hurt entering it.Just kidding, but I see their styles as vastly different. Arrington never was good at clearing the trash, whereas Williams gets good lean, runs behind his pads, and can run through the trash. Williams is very effective at the goal line & in short yardage. Huge difference in the NFL.
 
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Both of them ran up huge numbers against crappy Ds in college - but only one of them was surrounded on O by a bunch of future NFL players at other positions.
Ummm OK, yeah. Bush still made those other future NFL players loook mortal in comparison to himself. Bush trumps Williams in every aspect a RB can possibly have other than Strength (which can and WILL be worked on easily). His vision is so much better it like he has 4 eyes as opposed to Williams 2. His acceleration, balance and burst are so much better its as if he has 4 legs as opposed to Williams 2. He has far greater hands and is a natural WR out of the backfield. His ability to stop and start, fluidly, change gears and direction are simply not matched and haven't been by a prospect in years. Both are game breakers.
 
I watched Williams and he reminds me of J.J. Arrington in college. My guess is that Williams will be drafted in the same neighborhood as JJ (#44 overall).
Wow. I don't see that at all. Could you please expound a bit?
Alright, both are the same height/weight (5'9" 210) and from what I saw over their last season in college, their running style is similar. As for their senior stats, they are almost identical.As for stats:

Arrington (2004 season):

He was voted a consensus first-team All-American and was the country's only 2,000-yard rusher. He not only led the NCAA in total rushing yards and yards per carry, but was also the only player to rush for 100-plus yards in every game, as he gained the most yards by a Pac-10 rusher since Marcus Allen of Southern California totaled 2,427 yards in 1981.

Williams (2005)

2005 Honors: C-USA 1st Team All-Conference, C-USA Offensive Player of the Year, AFCA 1st Team All-American, Walter Camp 1st Team All-American, AP 2nd Team All-American

Rushed for 2,052 yards

To me they are similar.
Arrington played a year and a half of Division I football, while DeAngelo played 4 years at a very high level. Had he not broken his leg in the bowl game last year, I think he could have been the 3rd RB taken - ahead of Benson. If you watched both of them play, I don't think you would say they were similar other than their size and speed.
 
1. If Bush goes to Houston, I expect him to split carries and receptions with DD at about a 60/40 clip, with Davis getting the lesser load (Davis is simply too valuable to bench, and Bush is too valuable to overwork). I see Bush running for about 800/7 and recieving at 50/500/5 if he doesn't get hurt and performs up to expectations.

2. If Williams goes to a team that leans on him for 20 carries a game as the feature back, he has a high cieling as well. At best, I see him rushing for 1200/10 and recieving at 35/350/4.

3. If DeAngelo goes to a great situation as the feature back, I could see him leapfrogging Bush in a lot of fantasy drafts in the same way that Caddy did Ronnie Brown in alot of drafts last year.

 
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I watched Williams and he reminds me of J.J. Arrington in college.  My guess is that Williams will be drafted in the same neighborhood as JJ (#44 overall).
Wow. I don't see that at all. Could you please expound a bit?
Alright, both are the same height/weight (5'9" 210) and from what I saw over their last season in college, their running style is similar. As for their senior stats, they are almost identical.As for stats:

Arrington (2004 season):

He was voted a consensus first-team All-American and was the country's only 2,000-yard rusher. He not only led the NCAA in total rushing yards and yards per carry, but was also the only player to rush for 100-plus yards in every game, as he gained the most yards by a Pac-10 rusher since Marcus Allen of Southern California totaled 2,427 yards in 1981.

Williams (2005)

2005 Honors: C-USA 1st Team All-Conference, C-USA Offensive Player of the Year, AFCA 1st Team All-American, Walter Camp 1st Team All-American, AP 2nd Team All-American

Rushed for 2,052 yards

To me they are similar.
You may have watched them, but you didn't pay much attention. Arrington is a downhill runner while Williams is much more of a slasher.If you're going to compare someone in this draft to Arrington concerning running style, then it should be White.

 
Ummm OK, yeah.  Bush still made those other future NFL players loook mortal in comparison to himself.  Bush trumps Williams in every aspect a RB can possibly have other than Strength (which can and WILL be worked on easily).  His vision is so much better it like he has 4 eyes as opposed to Williams 2.  His acceleration, balance and burst are so much better its as if he has 4 legs as opposed to Williams 2.  He has far greater hands and is a natural WR out of the backfield.  His ability to stop and start, fluidly, change gears and direction are simply not matched and haven't been by a prospect in years.  Both are game breakers.
Well holy crap. If he's all that, I'd better trade LJ, Steven Jackson, & Torry Holt right now for the 1.01 pick this year in my dynasty league.I'm sure that every other team in the league besides HOU will be drafting kyptonite somewhere during the first day of the 2006 draft.
 
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Ummm OK, yeah. Bush still made those other future NFL players loook mortal in comparison to himself. Bush trumps Williams in every aspect a RB can possibly have other than Strength (which can and WILL be worked on easily). His vision is so much better it like he has 4 eyes as opposed to Williams 2. His acceleration, balance and burst are so much better its as if he has 4 legs as opposed to Williams 2. He has far greater hands and is a natural WR out of the backfield. His ability to stop and start, fluidly, change gears and direction are simply not matched and haven't been by a prospect in years. Both are game breakers.
Well holy crap. If he's all that, I'd better trade LJ, Steven Jackson, & Torry Holt right now for the 1.01 pick this year in my dynasty league.I'm sure that every other team in the league besides HOU will be drafting kyptonite somewhere during the first day of the 2006 draft.
There is a reason for the hype, like it or not.
 
Ummm OK, yeah.  Bush still made those other future NFL players loook mortal in comparison to himself.  Bush trumps Williams in every aspect a RB can possibly have other than Strength (which can and WILL be worked on easily).  His vision is so much better it like he has 4 eyes as opposed to Williams 2.  His acceleration, balance and burst are so much better its as if he has 4 legs as opposed to Williams 2.  He has far greater hands and is a natural WR out of the backfield.  His ability to stop and start, fluidly, change gears and direction are simply not matched and haven't been by a prospect in years.  Both are game breakers.
Well holy crap. If he's all that, I'd better trade LJ, Steven Jackson, & Torry Holt right now for the 1.01 pick this year in my dynasty league.I'm sure that every other team in the league besides HOU will be drafting kyptonite somewhere during the first day of the 2006 draft.
There is a reason for the hype, like it or not.
Which of course is why 31 other teams have beaten down the Texans' door to make a deal for 1.01...
 
Ummm OK, yeah. Bush still made those other future NFL players loook mortal in comparison to himself. Bush trumps Williams in every aspect a RB can possibly have other than Strength (which can and WILL be worked on easily). His vision is so much better it like he has 4 eyes as opposed to Williams 2. His acceleration, balance and burst are so much better its as if he has 4 legs as opposed to Williams 2. He has far greater hands and is a natural WR out of the backfield. His ability to stop and start, fluidly, change gears and direction are simply not matched and haven't been by a prospect in years. Both are game breakers.
Well holy crap. If he's all that, I'd better trade LJ, Steven Jackson, & Torry Holt right now for the 1.01 pick this year in my dynasty league.I'm sure that every other team in the league besides HOU will be drafting kyptonite somewhere during the first day of the 2006 draft.
There is a reason for the hype, like it or not.
Which of course is why 31 other teams have beaten down the Texans' door to make a deal for 1.01...
Why would they bother, they know Hou aint moving. :confused:
 
1. If Bush goes to Houston, I expect him to split carries and receptions with DD at about a 60/40 clip, with Davis getting the lesser load (Davis is simply too valuable to bench, and Bush is too valuable to overwork). I see Bush running for about 800/7 and recieving at 50/500/5 if he doesn't get hurt and performs up to expectations.

2. If Williams goes to a team that leans on him for 20 carries a game as the feature back, he has a high cieling as well. At best, I see him rushing for 1200/10 and recieving at 35/350/4.

3. If DeAngelo goes to a great situation as the feature back, I could see him leapfrogging Bush in a lot of fantasy drafts in the same way that Caddy did Ronnie Brown in alot of drafts last year.
I think your receiving touchdown projetions for both guys are a bit absurd. It just isn't very likely that any running back gets 4 or 5 receiving touchdowns. I think it is more likely that Bush would get 2 or 3 and Williams would get 0 or 1.For instance, last year Ronnie Brown was being touted as a great receiving option out of the backfield. I would say that his receiving skills are more advanced than DeAngelo Williams' and he only had 1 receiving touchdown last season.

 
Which of course is why 31 other teams have beaten down the Texans' door to make a deal for 1.01...
C'mon Pony Boy, blanket statement here. Your posts are usually far better than this.To begin with, there is no way all 31 teams without the 1.01 pick need a RB.

Throw out the Cards, Skins, Seahawks, Bucs, Bears, Rams, Dolphins, Chiefs, Raiders, Bills, Bengals. It makes no sense for any of these teams to put together a package that would move them to 1.01 and Bush.

Now we're down to "Why aren't 20 teams beating down the Texans door"?

You've got the next level of teams here. They already have their starting RB, though they may have ??? about that RB, such as age, bad season last year, too small to tote the rock 300+ times, FA acquisition who has never been a full time starter before...etc. But these teams are going to go with the RB they've got, as they have other needs than giving up a bundle of picks to move up to 1.01.

Ravens, Saints, Titans, Steelers, Browns, Giants, Philly, Vikes, Panthers, Falcons, Lions, Donkeys & Cowboys.

Now we're down to "Why aren't 6 teams beating down the Texans door"?

Jets? I think they want a top tier QB.

49er's? They've got so many holes to fill, that they need all their picks....and then some

Down to "Why aren't 4 teams beating down the Texans door"?

Jax - Del Rio may well be comfortable going with what he as at RB.

Indy - Would LOVE to see Indy put together a package for Bush. :wub:

Pats - They'll stand pat and take the RB that falls to them.

Pack - Makes sense for the Pack to try and swing a deal with the Texans. Walker & some picks perhaps? :popcorn:

 
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Both of them ran up huge numbers against crappy Ds in college - but only one of them was surrounded on O by a bunch of future NFL players at other positions.
This can be spun the other way too. Williams was the only future NFL player in many of his games So, Bush was helped by surrounding talent, but Williams was bullying subpar competition.You can look at it either way.

Personally, I like them both.

 
I watched Williams and he reminds me of J.J. Arrington in college.  My guess is that Williams will be drafted in the same neighborhood as JJ (#44 overall).
Wow. I don't see that at all. Could you please expound a bit?
Alright, both are the same height/weight (5'9" 210) and from what I saw over their last season in college, their running style is similar. As for their senior stats, they are almost identical.As for stats:

Arrington (2004 season):

He was voted a consensus first-team All-American and was the country's only 2,000-yard rusher. He not only led the NCAA in total rushing yards and yards per carry, but was also the only player to rush for 100-plus yards in every game, as he gained the most yards by a Pac-10 rusher since Marcus Allen of Southern California totaled 2,427 yards in 1981.

Williams (2005)

2005 Honors: C-USA 1st Team All-Conference, C-USA Offensive Player of the Year, AFCA 1st Team All-American, Walter Camp 1st Team All-American, AP 2nd Team All-American

Rushed for 2,052 yards

To me they are similar.
You may have watched them, but you didn't pay much attention. Arrington is a downhill runner while Williams is much more of a slasher.If you're going to compare someone in this draft to Arrington concerning running style, then it should be White.
You are flat out high.
 
C'mon Pony Boy, blanket statement here. Your posts are usually far better than this.To begin with, there is no way all 31 teams without the 1.01 pick need a RB.
Take the comments in context. The assertion was made - to paraphrase - that Bush is clearly super-human. If that were the case, every team in the league would want him.My response was just a ridiculous - but of course I was being sarcastic.
 
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C'mon Pony Boy, blanket statement here. Your posts are usually far better than this.

To begin with, there is no way all 31 teams without the 1.01 pick need a RB.
Take the comments in context. The assertion was made - to paraphrase - that Bush is clearly super-human. If that were the case, every team in the league would want him.My response was just a ridiculous - but of course I was being sarcastic.
Gotcha' :thumbup:
 

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