How to fix the FG timeout BS (1 Viewer)

[Neil Beaufort Zod]

This is actually pretty simple. All they have to do is, when a coach waits until the very last second to call TO before a kick...the ref should hesitate an extra second before actually blowing the whistle and calling the timeout. Not be real obvious about it, but don't be overly-eager to acknowledge it. Be like a union worker: Do your job, just not lightning-fast.

The end result will be that some kicks will actually go through and count because it was just too close to call. The ref didn't acknowedge the TO in time; sorry. The head coach will scream and yell and cry, and get fined.

But the next time it happens, they'll make sure to call TO a couple of seconds earlier; plenty of time to blow the whistle and not waste a play. After a while teams will get the message: Cut it too close, and you might not get your TO. It will self-correct pretty fast.

I don't like the idea that we have to wait until the end of the season to add a rule that someone else will try to work around. I'm all for "strategerie", but this "run a play that doesn't count" is getting silly. When it happens in the playoffs, it will be a real problem. They can fix it right now by adding in a little human error to warn coaches. If you try to get too cute, it could backfire. We're only human, you know.

Am I being absurd or does it make sense to anybody?

 

[831hoops]

This is actually pretty simple. All they have to do is, when a coach waits until the very last second to call TO before a kick...the ref should hesitate an extra second before actually blowing the whistle and calling the timeout. Not be real obvious about it, but don't be overly-eager to acknowledge it. Be like a union worker: Do your job, just not lightning-fast.

The end result will be that some kicks will actually go through and count because it was just too close to call. The ref didn't acknowedge the TO in time; sorry. The head coach will scream and yell and cry, and get fined.

But the next time it happens, they'll make sure to call TO a couple of seconds earlier; plenty of time to blow the whistle and not waste a play. After a while teams will get the message: Cut it too close, and you might not get your TO. It will self-correct pretty fast.

I don't like the idea that we have to wait until the end of the season to add a rule that someone else will try to work around. I'm all for "strategerie", but this "run a play that doesn't count" is getting silly. When it happens in the playoffs, it will be a real problem. They can fix it right now by adding in a little human error to warn coaches. If you try to get too cute, it could backfire. We're only human, you know.

Am I being absurd or does it make sense to anybody?

 

[pinequick]

This is actually pretty simple. All they have to do is, when a coach waits until the very last second to call TO before a kick...the ref should hesitate an extra second before actually blowing the whistle and calling the timeout. Not be real obvious about it, but don't be overly-eager to acknowledge it. Be like a union worker: Do your job, just not lightning-fast.

The end result will be that some kicks will actually go through and count because it was just too close to call. The ref didn't acknowedge the TO in time; sorry. The head coach will scream and yell and cry, and get fined.

But the next time it happens, they'll make sure to call TO a couple of seconds earlier; plenty of time to blow the whistle and not waste a play. After a while teams will get the message: Cut it too close, and you might not get your TO. It will self-correct pretty fast.

I don't like the idea that we have to wait until the end of the season to add a rule that someone else will try to work around. I'm all for "strategerie", but this "run a play that doesn't count" is getting silly. When it happens in the playoffs, it will be a real problem. They can fix it right now by adding in a little human error to warn coaches. If you try to get too cute, it could backfire. We're only human, you know.

Am I being absurd or does it make sense to anybody?

That's sort of what happened tonight--did you see how many times Jauron was yelling "Now! Now! Do it! Do it!"

 

[Iwannabeacowboybaby!]

Sorry bud but it's absurd.

Ref's are paid well to do their job. I don't like the current rule but you can't have referees bending rules that they think are good or bad.

They have to call it by the book. If they change the rule one day, that's when they'll call it differently.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

You can call a time out whenever you want to call a timeout.

Its not BS. Its a timeout, nothing more or less.

If you cant handle a timeout and spaz out because of it and go mental over it, dont play football.

There are a hundred time stopages occuring throughout the game. Be a professional and do your job.

 

[PranksterJD]

But the next time it happens, they'll make sure to call TO a couple of seconds earlier; plenty of time to blow the whistle and not waste a play.

That's not gonna help the ref, because the next time it happens he'll be officiating his local high school team.

 

[thayman]

You can call a time out whenever you want to call a timeout. Its not BS. Its a timeout, nothing more or less.If you cant handle a timeout and spaz out because of it and go mental over it, dont play football.There are a hundred time stopages occuring throughout the game. Be a professional and do your job.

 

[mad sweeney]

You can call a time out whenever you want to call a timeout. Its not BS. Its a timeout, nothing more or less.If you cant handle a timeout and spaz out because of it and go mental over it, dont play football.There are a hundred time stopages occuring throughout the game. Be a professional and do your job.

I don't understand why people think it's a BS rule. Kick the FG twice if you have to. If a rookie can do it on Monday Night with a perfect record on the line, then it shouldn't be a big deal.

 

[J R]

You can call a time out whenever you want to call a timeout. Its not BS. Its a timeout, nothing more or less.If you cant handle a timeout and spaz out because of it and go mental over it, dont play football.There are a hundred time stopages occuring throughout the game. Be a professional and do your job.

god i can't believe someone good posted that. does your mom know you're up this late?

 

[BigSteelThrill]

You can call a time out whenever you want to call a timeout. Its not BS. Its a timeout, nothing more or less.If you cant handle a timeout and spaz out because of it and go mental over it, dont play football.There are a hundred time stopages occuring throughout the game. Be a professional and do your job.

god i can't believe someone good posted that. does your mom know you're up this late?

Im a grown a $ $ man. If you or others cant handle a timeout... Im sorry to hear that.

 

[Max Power]

just wait until there is a major injury to a player on one of these kicks.

 

[geoff8695]

You can call a time out whenever you want to call a timeout. Its not BS. Its a timeout, nothing more or less.If you cant handle a timeout and spaz out because of it and go mental over it, dont play football.There are a hundred time stopages occuring throughout the game. Be a professional and do your job.

I don't understand why people think it's a BS rule. Kick the FG twice if you have to. If a rookie can do it on Monday Night with a perfect record on the line, then it shouldn't be a big deal.

If it's a 20 yard field goal then you're absolutely right no big deal, but a 53 yarder is very different. Good luck lining up and making consecutive 50+ field goals without any loss of distance on X+1.Also what if the kicker pulled a hammy or if one of the defenders had 'rolled' the kicker's planting leg on the meaningless attempt? Kind of tough to make the 38 yarder (after the 15 yard penalty) without your place kicker...

 

[Daywalker]

I can't wait for someone to miss then make it on the second try.

 

[831hoops]

You can call a time out whenever you want to call a timeout. Its not BS. Its a timeout, nothing more or less.If you cant handle a timeout and spaz out because of it and go mental over it, dont play football.There are a hundred time stopages occuring throughout the game. Be a professional and do your job.

I don't understand why people think it's a BS rule. Kick the FG twice if you have to. If a rookie can do it on Monday Night with a perfect record on the line, then it shouldn't be a big deal.

If it's a 20 yard field goal then you're absolutely right no big deal, but a 53 yarder is very different. Good luck lining up and making consecutive 50+ field goals without any loss of distance on X+1.Also what if the kicker pulled a hammy or if one of the defenders had 'rolled' the kicker's planting leg on the meaningless attempt? Kind of tough to make the 38 yarder (after the 15 yard penalty) without your place kicker...

You don't have to make consecutive FGs.

 

[Saeniph]

Easiest way: allow only players on the field to call a timeout in the last two minutes. That way the ball won't be snapped.

 

[Neil Beaufort Zod]

OK, well, I guess I'm in the minority. I think the human element comes into play a lot (allow a couple of shoves before calling unnecessary roughness, call holding or not, etc). The NFL definitely wants hits to the helmet called, so it's always called-- no leeway (unless they just miss it). I don't see why they couldn't have a second go by before it's acknowledged, and make it known that if you cut it too close you might not get your call.

In fact, while I respect everyone's opinions I still think I'm right. I think we might see the NFL respond by having some called TOs not get acknowledged in time. Coaches will complain that they definitely called it, but somehow it didn't get through. We'll see.

If they do change the rule, it would have to be something like not allowing a TO when the play clock is at five or less on kicking plays. Call it until the clock is at five; then you let the play go.

 

[geoff8695]

You don't have to make consecutive FGs.

touche... only the 2nd attempt is 'official'

 

[Neil Beaufort Zod]

Sorry bud but it's absurd.

Ref's are paid well to do their job. I don't like the current rule but you can't have referees bending rules that they think are good or bad.

They have to call it by the book. If they change the rule one day, that's when they'll call it differently.

I think we see some of that already. Some "ticky tack" fouls don't get called, and in the playoffs they often "just let them play." Is it really that different?

 

[BigSteelThrill]

OK, well, I guess I'm in the minority. I think the human element comes into play a lot (allow a couple of shoves before calling unnecessary roughness, call holding or not, etc). The NFL definitely wants hits to the helmet called, so it's always called-- no leeway (unless they just miss it). I don't see why they couldn't have a second go by before it's acknowledged, and make it known that if you cut it too close you might not get your call.In fact, while I respect everyone's opinions I still think I'm right. I think we might see the NFL respond by having some called TOs not get acknowledged in time. Coaches will complain that they definitely called it, but somehow it didn't get through. We'll see.If they do change the rule, it would have to be something like not allowing a TO when the play clock is at five or less on kicking plays. Call it until the clock is at five; then you let the play go.

What if you have 10 men on the field? What if a bug flies into your kickers eye?Its a timeout. It also can greatly effect what could/would happen to the offense and defense when its called just before the snap. Gonna change those rules to, or is it only for kickers... well unles its a fake. ??? No. Just play the game. Teams get timeouts, its rudimentary.

 

[cantrell]

I don't see what the big deal is. It's good strategy.

 

[thayman]

You can call a time out whenever you want to call a timeout. Its not BS. Its a timeout, nothing more or less.If you cant handle a timeout and spaz out because of it and go mental over it, dont play football.There are a hundred time stopages occuring throughout the game. Be a professional and do your job.

god i can't believe someone good posted that. does your mom know you're up this late?

He's right. Sorry it's completely within the rules. Nick Folk proved tonite that a good kicker can make it no problem.

 

[Anthony Borbely]

Easiest way: allow only players on the field to call a timeout in the last two minutes. That way the ball won't be snapped.

 

[KingPrawn]

What's the difference between this and calling a timeout in basketball to ice the free throw shooter? It's part of the game. And yet, in basketball it's considered good strategy but in the NFL it's "Let's change the rules."

 

[Bri]

There are negatives to a coach doing this, it isn't all in his favor

There have been Ks that have missed

In an article at the Boston Globe IIRC-

Vinatieri's kick against the Raiders allowed them more time to clear the field and Adam had more time to "size up" a real cruddy field with his footing and all.

Gostkowski points out it's like a free kick, try it once then the next one counts.

I'll try and get the link

here

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patr...te_icing_calls/

Also, this has been in front of the competition committee and been shot down several times over the years

 

[ConstruxBoy]

Maybe most people missed this but when they showed Jauron calling the timeout on ESPN on replay, it did take 3-4 seconds for the ref to acknowledge it. So he wasn't really calling it that close to the actual snap, the ref was just delayed.

 

[CerealKillerz]

Is this strategy working? I have seen the kicker make the second FG most of the time.

I think most kickers like the chance to get a practice kick in. If they make the first they are confident for the second. If they miss the first, they feel like the second is pure bonus and they can correct whatever they did on the first kick.

 

[crowe1130]

I can't wait for someone to miss then make it on the second try.

That's what I've been waiting for too. Would be interesting to see what effect that would have on how often this "strategy" gets used.

 

[FootballFreakX]

The thing that some of you are forgetting is that the ball is being allowed to snap and the players have no choice but to go through with the play. These players risk a lot when they play this sport. The last thing any of them need is to get injured on a play only to be told it didn't count. Rules are there to protect the players. Allowing coaches to call timeouts a second before the snap puts players in unecessary harms way.

 

[KnowledgeReignsSupreme]

I don't understand all the uproar for this suddenly. It's not like no one was doing this until this year. If you don't want to fall victim to it, don't wait until the playclock ticks down to almost zero. Get your guys out there and snap it before they are expecting it.

 

[FavreCo]

Nothing needs fixed. You just gotta have a kicker with stones like NICK FOLK!!!!!, drafted in 3rd round of our dynasty draft after extensive study of combine film. 2 cowboys fans in the league and neither had a clue, both needing a kicker too.

 

[B-Deep]

You can call a time out whenever you want to call a timeout. Its not BS. Its a timeout, nothing more or less.If you cant handle a timeout and spaz out because of it and go mental over it, dont play football.There are a hundred time stopages occuring throughout the game. Be a professional and do your job.

I don't understand why people think it's a BS rule. Kick the FG twice if you have to. If a rookie can do it on Monday Night with a perfect record on the line, then it shouldn't be a big deal.

because it is not as good for viewers. Here is the climax of the entire game, but wait, not really, you all cheered or booed for nothing, lets do it all again. MAYBE this time will count. YEs, the same thing can happen on penalties, but that is on field.This is all about a poor way to end a great game on TV, which is where the NFL makes it's money.

 

[B-Deep]

I don't understand all the uproar for this suddenly. It's not like no one was doing this until this year. If you don't want to fall victim to it, don't wait until the playclock ticks down to almost zero. Get your guys out there and snap it before they are expecting it.

in the past what, 4 weeks it has happened 3 times and twice he kick was missed the second time. THAT is not something that has happened all the time.

 

[Regis]

You can call timeout anytime you want for the first 59 minutes. Why should the last minute be any different? What if you were calling a timeout for a different reason than "icing" the kicker? What if you had 12 men on the field? Sorry, you can't call timeout out right now, they want to kick RIGHT NOW!

Wade Phillips will probably complain about it and next week when Gostkowski is about to kick the game winner, he'll do the same thing.

What will be funny, is when a guy misses the first and then makes the second...

 

[malice]

This rule will get changed when a kicker gets injured on one of these do-over plays. Then again, I've always thought icing the kicker instead of saving that timeout for later is a stupid decision.

 

[ctdub]

I think the miss then make did happen last seaon to Jacksonville if I'm not mistaken.

I think the rule should be no timeouts from the sideline in a kicking formation...if any change at all. But why mess with the rules when this adds an element of excitement to the game. The suspense of are they going to call timeout or not. I personally like it.

 

[BroadwayG]

What's the problem?

 

[Elway Lives]

Nothing needs fixed. You just gotta have a kicker with stones like NICK FOLK!!!!!, drafted in 3rd round of our dynasty draft after extensive study of combine film. 2 cowboys fans in the league and neither had a clue, both needing a kicker too.

Nick Folk?????I've seen Nick Folk, and Nick Folk is certainly no Sebastian Janikowski.

 

[J R]

You can call a time out whenever you want to call a timeout. Its not BS. Its a timeout, nothing more or less.If you cant handle a timeout and spaz out because of it and go mental over it, dont play football.There are a hundred time stopages occuring throughout the game. Be a professional and do your job.

I don't understand why people think it's a BS rule. Kick the FG twice if you have to. If a rookie can do it on Monday Night with a perfect record on the line, then it shouldn't be a big deal.

because it is not as good for viewers. Here is the climax of the entire game, but wait, not really, you all cheered or booed for nothing, lets do it all again. MAYBE this time will count. YEs, the same thing can happen on penalties, but that is on field.This is all about a poor way to end a great game on TV, which is where the NFL makes it's money.

yeah that sums up my feelings pretty well. unfortunately, people seem to think this is strategy, so now every coach probably feels like he has to do it.malice, haven't you heard? the smart coaches save their timeouts for stopping the clock and icing the kicker. anything else is bad "game management."

 

[Doxology]

Why does it seem that this just became an issue THIS YEAR? It's crazy. I think it's bush league.

 

[texasheat]

I can't wait until one of these brilliant coaches do this last second time out and the kicker misses it... then nails it AFTER the time out. Oh how fun...

 

[KnowledgeReignsSupreme]

I don't understand all the uproar for this suddenly. It's not like no one was doing this until this year. If you don't want to fall victim to it, don't wait until the playclock ticks down to almost zero. Get your guys out there and snap it before they are expecting it.

in the past what, 4 weeks it has happened 3 times and twice he kick was missed the second time. THAT is not something that has happened all the time.

Nice sample size of 3 there. One of those was Janikowski right? Drunk kickers are the type you can ice.

 

[cred0021]

The simple answer (similar to what someone mentioned above) is to only allow players on the field to call a timeout during FG attempts. I don't think anybody has a problem with timeouts to ice a kicker - before he kicks.

 

[The Ref]

I can't wait for someone to miss then make it on the second try.

If someone tries this in a playoff game and the kicker misses the first one and hits the second one I bet there would be some changes in thinking.

 

[Doug B]

People are calling these "icing" timeouts, and they're not. These TOs are intentional "make 'em kick it twice" timeouts -- and that's where the BS lies.

Place kicks from scrimmage are unique plays in football. On no other play does the action progress from snap to conclusion so quickly. To me, that means that place kicks from scrimmage deserve to be treated differently in the rule book.

The analogy to me is this: say the Colts are driving for the winning TD. Manning drops back, sees Wayne beat a blown coverage, cocks his arm back, and ...



Everything that happened after the whistle is blown dead. Manning's arm went forward, he released the ball, Wayne caught it, and scampered in for 6. But it all comes back because the opponent called a timeout. The play has to be re-run.

Would you then say "Complete that pass twice, Peyton!"? I hope not.

But some will argue "That's a bad analogy -- that's not a pre-snap timeout." Indeed ... but it's still a good analogy. Here's why: the snap-hold-kick event is pretty much instantaneous, taking about as long as a three-step drop. That means an at-the-snap TO interferes with the main event of the play, namely the place kick. On a regular offensive play, the snap is nowhere near as close to the main event (the pass attempt, in this instance). Everyone has time to hold up and not actually go into the execution of the play.

Kicks are special cases and should be treated differently. No timeout should be allowed once the center has his hand on the ball and the line is in formation. The old-fashioned icing time-out can still be made ... you just make sure an on-the-field time out is called while the offense is still scrambling into FG formation.

 

[Doug B]

The simple answer (similar to what someone mentioned above) is to only allow players on the field to call a timeout during FG attempts. I don't think anybody has a problem with timeouts to ice a kicker - before he kicks.

Exactly -- these aren't at all icing timeouts.

 

[Jayrod]

What if its a fake FG? The only thing that actually determines a FG attempt is when the kickers foot strikes the ball. Before that it is just an offensive snap.

You can't say before the snap on a normal play allow the TO, but before the snap on a FG attempt, don't allow it. There is no designation as far as the referee is concerned and he can't be allowed to make an assumption about what kind of play will be ran (no matter how obvious it is).

Also, a team can use their timeouts any way they choose before the snap. As long as the ref gets the whistle blown before the snap, its a legal timeout, regardless of what the players end up doing. The real issue is that none of the players can hear the whistle because it is so freaking loud.

There are plus & minuses to the kicker kicking it twice, so there really isn't a disadvantage to the kicking team.

I really don't get all of the hoopla over this. Why do people dislike it when watching? It's like getting to see alternative endings to movies. People pay extra for that stuff.

 

[Lash]

the BEST way to fix it is to MISS the FG after a last second TO

then make the live FG

coaches will stop doing that once that happens a time or two and is plastered on ESPN for a week how dumb that coach was for calling a TO on the MISS that cost his team a victory

 

[Doug B]

What if its a fake FG? The only thing that actually determines a FG attempt is when the kickers foot strikes the ball. Before that it is just an offensive snap.

Then it is. So what? I've got no problem with a special exception being made for one formation that has the designated place kicker on the field.

You can't say before the snap on a normal play allow the TO, but before the snap on a FG attempt, don't allow it. There is no designation as far as the referee is concerned and he can't be allowed to make an assumption about what kind of play will be ran (no matter how obvious it is).

Of course you can say it. Make a rule based on (a) formation, and (b) kicker being on the field, and POOF! -- it is done.

Also, a team can use their timeouts any way they choose before the snap. As long as the ref gets the whistle blown before the snap, its a legal timeout, regardless of what the players end up doing. The real issue is that none of the players can hear the whistle because it is so freaking loud.

The teams can currently use timeouts any way they choose pre-snap. What I am advocating is having one choice removed -- to call a timeout to force the kicker to attempt a kick twice.

There are plus & minuses to the kicker kicking it twice, so there really isn't a disadvantage to the kicking team.

Disagree vehemently, especially on long kicks.

 

[pwtrash]

Sorry bud but it's absurd.

Ref's are paid well to do their job. I don't like the current rule but you can't have referees bending rules that they think are good or bad.

They have to call it by the book. If they change the rule one day, that's when they'll call it differently.

I think we see some of that already. Some "ticky tack" fouls don't get called, and in the playoffs they often "just let them play." Is it really that different?

Good post. Examples: TO "spiking" the ball last night & the faceguarding & arm grabbing on the two point conversion, as well as the forceout call in the Steelers' game but the non-forceout call last night. Those were very discretionary calls.The "run a play" timeout is something that might be cool in soccer, but it's a pretty crappy way to win a game. The fact that it is becoming standard practice is just an embarrassment to football, dogs, and bacon. I have to say, though, it was fun watching the Bills after they tried to pull that & lost anyway.

As the earlier posting mentioned, having a kicker miss the first & use it to help make the second will help curtail the practice, but it really is lame & I have no doubt that the rules committee will do something about it this offseason. On a field goal, once the kick goes up, it should be non-reversible. Didn't get the timeout in time to stop the snap? Too bad (or good, depending on whether the F hit or missed).

 

[Jayrod]

What if its a fake FG? The only thing that actually determines a FG attempt is when the kickers foot strikes the ball. Before that it is just an offensive snap.

Then it is. So what? I've got no problem with a special exception being made for one formation that has the designated place kicker on the field.

You can't say before the snap on a normal play allow the TO, but before the snap on a FG attempt, don't allow it. There is no designation as far as the referee is concerned and he can't be allowed to make an assumption about what kind of play will be ran (no matter how obvious it is).

Of course you can say it. Make a rule based on (a) formation, and (b) kicker being on the field, and POOF! -- it is done.

Also, a team can use their timeouts any way they choose before the snap. As long as the ref gets the whistle blown before the snap, its a legal timeout, regardless of what the players end up doing. The real issue is that none of the players can hear the whistle because it is so freaking loud.

The teams can currently use timeouts any way they choose pre-snap. What I am advocating is having one choice removed -- to call a timeout to force the kicker to attempt a kick twice.

There are plus & minuses to the kicker kicking it twice, so there really isn't a disadvantage to the kicking team.

Disagree vehemently, especially on long kicks.

Well if you want to re-write several parts of the rule book in order to accomodate what is ultimately just an annoyance, I guess that's your perogative.I'd also like to see any supporting arguements that there is a disadvantage to the kicking team.