How To Get To Heaven When You Die. Read The First Post. Then Q&A Discussion. Ask Questions Here! (2 Viewers)

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

Sorry, I haven't been around. Been extremely sick all week.

Sorry to hear, hope this week is better.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Sorry, I haven't been around. Been extremely sick all week.

Feel better soon @Paddington !

 

[Paddington]

Sorry, I haven't been around. Been extremely sick all week.

Hope you feel better, Paddington.

Thank you. Will be back very soon

 

[Paddington]

Its been extraordinarily cold where I live, causing me to get very sick several times this year. Thanks for your prayers.

 

[Paddington]

Sorry, I haven't been around. Been extremely sick all week.

Feel better soon @Paddington !

Thank you

 

[Paddington]

Sorry, I haven't been around. Been extremely sick all week.

Sorry to hear, hope this week is better.

It was pretty brutal. Feel better now. Thanks.

 

[Paddington]

The Greatest Bible Teacher, Les Feldick, Will Walk You Through The Bible In 25 Minute Lessons:

Through the Bible with Les Feldick

Excellent Genesis-Revelation Bible study, Rightly-Dividing the Word: 82 books and MP3 Audio on-line. Les is an Oklahoma rancher who teaches non-denominational, home-style Bible classes.

www.lesfeldick.org

 

[Paddington]

The Shroud Of Turin, New Findings

New Questions Emerge Around the Authenticity of the Shroud of Turin

Faith, fraud, and the fabric of mystery.

www.theepochtimes.com

 

[Paddington]

I added a poll, please vote in the poll. Thank you.

 

[Navin Johnson]

The Shroud Of Turin, New Findings

New Questions Emerge Around the Authenticity of the Shroud of Turin

Faith, fraud, and the fabric of mystery.

www.theepochtimes.com

sounds legit

 

[Paddington]

Pretty Amazing if you ask me.

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

Pretty Amazing if you ask me.

But ultimately, Christianity does not need a piece of cloth to validate the Resurrection. The message of Christ endures regardless because faith is not about seeing. It is about believing.

Well, there should be no doubt among believers, and even non-believers that the message attributed to Jesus rose from the dead and flourished well beyond the crucifixion. There was certainly a resurrection. Whether that was just a resurrection of the message when the followers came out of hiding or it was a resurrection of the messenger himself is where faith and religion enters the picture - for better and worse. What I mean as for worse is that all too often the focus is on the event meant to open eyes and hearts to the message of Jesus at the expense of that message. The crucifixion and resurrection are ultimately just eye opener theatrics. They are an example of living the message of love, but they are not the actual message. And as such the shroud, assuming it is what some believers want it to be is just a prop. It is like all of Jesus' miracles. If it works, it is a form of "bait and switch" to grab attention to spread the message to love God and love each other. To use awe to inspire, but way too often these things get stuck at the awe stage, stuck in celebrity worship at the expense of the inspiration to embrace the message of love.

 

[BlackCrowes]

Surprisingly, I don’t have a subscription to The Epoch Times

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

Surprisingly, I don’t have a subscription to The Epoch Times

You don't need one to read the article, but I doubt very many that attempt to will read past "New research suggests that it was not the Shroud that was fake, but the carbon dating." The shroud could very well be older than the 1988 carbon dating range, maybe something happened to skew the tests (just not the nonsensical "the carbon-dating exercise as a rushed and deeply flawed undertaking", heck maybe the god of deception that some believe in is playing with us and interfering with attempts in order to test our faith and it really is Jesus' burial cloth, but the article is the same kind of stuff that plays to those that really need "proof" for their faith that they simply cannot see how silly this kind of presentation all sounds. If the shroud is 2000 years old per some honest scientific method, then publish the results in some scientific peer reviewed publication. Like what happened in 1988. And don't pretend the ten-year effort to coordinate an agreement to date the shroud fifty years ago led to some forty-year scandal, grand conspiracy to deny believers that proof. (And these sins are from "my side".)

 

[Paddington]

Tomorrow is Sunday. Find a good Bible believing Church and attend. One that serves by grace through faith alone.

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

Tomorrow is Sunday. Find a good Bible believing Church and attend. One that serves by grace through faith alone.

For the Third Sunday after Epiphany the readings this cycle (yes, I go to a church on the traditional three-year plan) are

[Skeets] Nehemiah 8:1-3,5-6,8-10 where Watergate was the prophesy

Or maybe not. Relative to this thread-

So they read from the book, from the law of God, with interpretation. They gave the sense, so that the people understood the reading.

There was a third century apologist Origen of Alexandria that went off on a guy Celsus that though the "one" god concept was a gross perversion, gross rejection of the wisdom that the civilized world possessed from their ancient gods. He says something about how scripture was written to serve two audiences. Those that took it literally, and those that could get the true meaning from reading it with an allegorical interpretation. He is defending an allegorical interpretation that Celsus claim is only to get pass the immorality of reading it literally. I'm paraphrasing of course. But here is a very early church father and the bible itself arguing that the real message is not the literal story.

ETA: Don't take this as acceptance of Origen's theology beyond the idea that much of it is allegorical. Because some of his interpretations are, well...

The Psalm 19

Let the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart be acceptable in your sight, O Lord, my strength and my redeemer

If not?

1 Corinthians 12:12-31a

 If one member suffers, all suffer together with it; if one member is honored, all rejoice together with it.

Take care of one another

Luke 4:14-21

“Today this scripture has been fulfilled in your hearing.”

That old stuff is complete, done, time to move on from the crippling written down laws of the Old Testament and move on to the freedom of grace to be people of God.

 

[Paddington]

Well, I believe that those that allegorize the Bible, are using it as an excuse to change the actual meaning of what is saying into what THEY want to believe. There are some allegories in the Bible, but they are always interpreted by the Bible itself and always have a literal meaning. For the most part, it says what it means and means what it says. God isn't trying to hide things from.people who are sincere in knowing the truth, but He has been known to hide things from those who don't really trust in Him or His Word. Those who would create God in their own image, rather than conforming to the image of Christ. The Bible interprets itself.

 

[Sparky Polastri]

Telling people why they are doing something is always a clear and true path to open and honest discussion.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Telling people why they are doing something is always a clear and true path to open and honest discussion.

He opened his post with "I believe".

He thinks that's what people are doing. He's not telling them.

We don't agree on some things. But I don't like seeing people put words in his mouth.

 

[dkp993]

@Paddington as a Bible literalist where do you stand on the books of the Old Testament? Are those the direct word of God too?

 

[Sparky Polastri]

Telling people why they are doing something is always a clear and true path to open and honest discussion.

He opened his post with "I believe".

He thinks that's what people are doing. He's not telling them.

I read what he wrote. I'm well aware of what he said. My comment is accurate of his behavior throughout the thread. Pick all the nits you'd like Joe. Your board. The fruitlessness of the approach is well documented in this very thread if we take him at his word regarding what his goal of the thread is.

 

[Zow]

@Paddington as a Bible literalist where do you stand on the books of the Old Testament? Are those the direct word of God too?

I was going to ask this as well. Genuinely curious how one can appreciate G/god with the belief that those stories are true.

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

Well, I believe that those that allegorize the Bible, are using it as an excuse to change the actual meaning of what is saying into what THEY want to believe.

That is what Census accused Christians of doing. Of whitewashing that the God of the Old Testament is, in his translated words barbaric. If that is God...

Those who would create God in their own image, rather than conforming to the image of Christ.

For starters, should not God be better than me? If not, then why would I (or anyone) worship something as flawed as me? I've never cursed all of humanity because the human that knew me best chose not to listen. I have never accepted a human sacrifice, and no I'm not talking about Isaac but Mizpah. I have never murdered an entire city because they were "arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy. They were haughty and did detestable things before me." I don't need rainbows to remind me to not wipeout the planet - again! I don't think that it is good policy that one can rape a virgin as long as one is willing to marry her and pay her father the brides price.

But the Jesus of the New Testament is nothing like this god of the Old Testament. Which version better represents God's true nature? The version offered by Jesus, or the version offered by bronze age mortals? And am I doomed to hell if I hold too high of an opinion on God's nature? If God is the biggest bully on the block, then I can "fear" that. However, I prefer to "love" and "trust", and that "fear" is mostly being used as a synonym for "respect". Just like the original Christians.

God isn't trying to hide things from.people who are sincere in knowing the truth, but He has been known to hide things from those who don't really trust in Him or His Word

If God is seeking out a relationship with everyone, why would God employ such a ridiculous strategy as to deceive those who are already struggling to trust him? Why should anyone trust such a being that behaves in such a counterproductive manner?

 

[-fish-]

@Paddington as a Bible literalist where do you stand on the books of the Old Testament? Are those the direct word of God too?

good luck with this question. I'm interested in the answer as well, although I'm fairly certain I know. Jesus fulfilled the covenant so after that followers are just bound by his teachings, not those of the Old Testament. But it's all the word of God.

 

[-fish-]

Paddington--have you ever actually read the Bible? Cover to cover? Not just studies or summaries. The whole thing?

 

[Paddington]

@Paddington as a Bible literalist where do you stand on the books of the Old Testament? Are those the direct word of God too?

Absolutely, 100% the Word of God. Jesus Himself quoted the Old Testament as authoritative from God.

Do a Bible search on the phrase "It is written" and count how many times Jesus references the Bible as authoritative from God. Peter & Paul also reference the Bible as authoritative from God.

Paul

2 Timothy 3:16 NIV
[16] All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,

Peter

2 Peter 1:21 NIV
[21] For prophecy never had its origin in the human will, but prophets, though human, spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit

 

[-fish-]

Paddington- are parts of the Bible allegorical or are they all literally true?

 

[-fish-]

@Paddington as a Bible literalist where do you stand on the books of the Old Testament? Are those the direct word of God too?

this is what Pope John Paul II said on this:

The Holy Roman Church... firmly believes, professes and teaches that the matter pertaining to the law of the Old Testament, of the Mosaic law... after our Lord's coming had been signified by them, ceased, and the sacraments of the New Testament began;... after the promulgation of the Gospel it asserts that they cannot be observed without the loss of eternal salvation. All, therefore, who after that time observe circumcision and the Sabbath and the other requirements of the law, the holy Roman Church declares alien to the Christian faith and not in the least fit to participate in eternal salvation.

 

[dkp993]

@Paddington as a Bible literalist where do you stand on the books of the Old Testament? Are those the direct word of God too?

Absolutely, 100% the Word of God. Jesus Himself quoted the Old Testament as authoritative from God.

Do a Bible search on the phrase "It is written" and count how many times Jesus references the Bible as authoritative from God. Peter & Paul also reference the Bible as authoritative from God.

Paul

2 Timothy 3:16 NIV
[16] All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,

Peter

2 Peter 1:21 NIV
[21] For prophecy never had its origin in the human will, but prophets, though human, spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit

Thanks. So, putting aside the angry vengeful God thing, where do you line up with the Old Testament and its (God’s) expectations of how we manage crime and punishment? For example, I assume you don’t wear clothes made of 2 different times of cloth or eat pork and shellfish. Do you agree one should be stoned to death if they cheat on their spouse, or blasphemy, or work on sabbath?

 

[dkp993]

@Paddington as a Bible literalist where do you stand on the books of the Old Testament? Are those the direct word of God too?

this is what Pope John Paul II said on this:

The Holy Roman Church... firmly believes, professes and teaches that the matter pertaining to the law of the Old Testament, of the Mosaic law... after our Lord's coming had been signified by them, ceased, and the sacraments of the New Testament began;... after the promulgation of the Gospel it asserts that they cannot be observed without the loss of eternal salvation. All, therefore, who after that time observe circumcision and the Sabbath and the other requirements of the law, the holy Roman Church declares alien to the Christian faith and not in the least fit to participate in eternal salvation.

That’s very convenient.
Regardless, Paddington has a literalist viewpoint on the Bible, so I’m just wondering how he (and others like him) rationalize those “teachings” with the modern life.

 

[-fish-]

@Paddington as a Bible literalist where do you stand on the books of the Old Testament? Are those the direct word of God too?

this is what Pope John Paul II said on this:

The Holy Roman Church... firmly believes, professes and teaches that the matter pertaining to the law of the Old Testament, of the Mosaic law... after our Lord's coming had been signified by them, ceased, and the sacraments of the New Testament began;... after the promulgation of the Gospel it asserts that they cannot be observed without the loss of eternal salvation. All, therefore, who after that time observe circumcision and the Sabbath and the other requirements of the law, the holy Roman Church declares alien to the Christian faith and not in the least fit to participate in eternal salvation.

That’s very convenient.
Regardless, Paddington has a literalist viewpoint on the Bible, so I’m just wondering how he (and others like him) rationalize those “teachings” with the modern life.

I think we're probably in agreement. I asked about Job earlier and was ignored. It's very difficult to be a literalist, claim the Old Testament is the word of God, and also be a Christian, especially if you've actually read the book. Thus my question.

 

[-fish-]

There are Dualists that believe the Old Testament was just for the Chosen People and the new testament was for gentiles, but then it makes no sense whatsoever that born agains would also be passionate young earthers.

 

[Joe Bryant]

I read what he wrote. I'm well aware of what he said. My comment is accurate of his behavior throughout the thread. Pick all the nits you'd like Joe.

If you read what he wrote, don't put words in his mouth. That's far from a nit. That's a basic thing we try to do here.

Please drop it and move on.

 

[Navin Johnson]

I read what he wrote. I'm well aware of what he said. My comment is accurate of his behavior throughout the thread. Pick all the nits you'd like Joe.

If you read what he wrote, don't put words in his mouth. That's far from a nit. That's a basic thing we try to do here.

Please drop it and move on.

Sorry, but I believe this is really nitty. Just because he prefaced the comment with "I believe" doesn't make it any less condescending.

 

[dgreen]

@Paddington as a Bible literalist where do you stand on the books of the Old Testament? Are those the direct word of God too?

this is what Pope John Paul II said on this:

The Holy Roman Church... firmly believes, professes and teaches that the matter pertaining to the law of the Old Testament, of the Mosaic law... after our Lord's coming had been signified by them, ceased, and the sacraments of the New Testament began;... after the promulgation of the Gospel it asserts that they cannot be observed without the loss of eternal salvation. All, therefore, who after that time observe circumcision and the Sabbath and the other requirements of the law, the holy Roman Church declares alien to the Christian faith and not in the least fit to participate in eternal salvation.

That’s very convenient.
Regardless, Paddington has a literalist viewpoint on the Bible, so I’m just wondering how he (and others like him) rationalize those “teachings” with the modern life.

I’ve never heard anyone define “literalism” as requiring that every word is universally prescriptive.

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

I’ve never heard anyone define “literalism” as requiring that every word is universally prescriptive.

Weeks ago I asked about about Ephesians 5:29. If the bible, if God is saying literally that no one ever hated their body. Not one person, not for one second Should be easy to toss that line aside with that is just figurative language that makes a larger point. It wasn't! Why not?

Ultimately I think we all pick and chose what is to be taken as literal, what it to be figurative, what is simply to impress a "low information" believer, what is there to ponder, what is there to offer historical context, etc., etc. It is the very nature of the text. We all just do it differently. That is okay. Origien argued in my opinion that this was a feature. (Let's leave it at that as going further could be less than excellent)

I guess yesterday's 1 Corininthians 12:24-25 "But God has so composed the body... that there may be no division in the body" is equally absolute. (I haven't asked.) We've been doing these types of threads for a long time and I just simply don't understand why easily dismissable as demonstratably false statements are argued as truth. Not part of a larger truth, but the statement is literally true. It is my opinion that when you argue such things must be true as God's word, then you make it a trivial task to dismiss the entire good book. And while the passages might differ (and I doubt these would do it), I think this is a common story among non believers. They were asked to believe stuff was literally true as a requirement of faith that is demonstratably false.

Is that the kind of relationship that God really wants? One where we lie and deceive ourselves and then our neighbors to show obedience? I think God's people have answered that "yes" historically, but I think one of the points of Jesus is to say that God wants a healthier relationship with his people. But maybe I'm getting this wrong.

Edit was just to add a link.

 

[Sparky Polastri]

I read what he wrote. I'm well aware of what he said. My comment is accurate of his behavior throughout the thread. Pick all the nits you'd like Joe.

If you read what he wrote, don't put words in his mouth. That's far from a nit. That's a basic thing we try to do here.

Please drop it and move on.

Sorry Joe.....YOU are the one that assigned my comment to a specific post, not me. I made a comment in general that another 10 or so have already made/observed in this thread. If I am going to make a comment specific to the post, I quote the post.

 

[Joe Bryant]

I read what he wrote. I'm well aware of what he said. My comment is accurate of his behavior throughout the thread. Pick all the nits you'd like Joe.

If you read what he wrote, don't put words in his mouth. That's far from a nit. That's a basic thing we try to do here.

Please drop it and move on.

Sorry Joe.....YOU are the one that assigned my comment to a specific post, not me. I made a comment in general that another 10 or so have already made/observed in this thread. If I am going to make a comment specific to the post, I quote the post.

You literally posted it after his reply.

Regardless, don't put words into people's mouths. Full stop.

Now please drop it and get back to the topic.

 

[dkp993]

@Paddington as a Bible literalist where do you stand on the books of the Old Testament? Are those the direct word of God too?

this is what Pope John Paul II said on this:

The Holy Roman Church... firmly believes, professes and teaches that the matter pertaining to the law of the Old Testament, of the Mosaic law... after our Lord's coming had been signified by them, ceased, and the sacraments of the New Testament began;... after the promulgation of the Gospel it asserts that they cannot be observed without the loss of eternal salvation. All, therefore, who after that time observe circumcision and the Sabbath and the other requirements of the law, the holy Roman Church declares alien to the Christian faith and not in the least fit to participate in eternal salvation.

That’s very convenient.
Regardless, Paddington has a literalist viewpoint on the Bible, so I’m just wondering how he (and others like him) rationalize those “teachings” with the modern life.

I’ve never heard anyone define “literalism” as requiring that every word is universally prescriptive.

You do now. Paddington has made it clear here multiple times he does.

 

[dgreen]

@Paddington as a Bible literalist where do you stand on the books of the Old Testament? Are those the direct word of God too?

this is what Pope John Paul II said on this:

The Holy Roman Church... firmly believes, professes and teaches that the matter pertaining to the law of the Old Testament, of the Mosaic law... after our Lord's coming had been signified by them, ceased, and the sacraments of the New Testament began;... after the promulgation of the Gospel it asserts that they cannot be observed without the loss of eternal salvation. All, therefore, who after that time observe circumcision and the Sabbath and the other requirements of the law, the holy Roman Church declares alien to the Christian faith and not in the least fit to participate in eternal salvation.

That’s very convenient.
Regardless, Paddington has a literalist viewpoint on the Bible, so I’m just wondering how he (and others like him) rationalize those “teachings” with the modern life.

I’ve never heard anyone define “literalism” as requiring that every word is universally prescriptive.

You do now. Paddington has made it clear here multiple times he does.

I haven't interpreted anything he's said to mean that but maybe I missed it (I certainly haven't read every post). When he says he reads the Bible literally, I think he means that when it says something happened then it happened. And it happened the way it says it happened. And people said what the Bible says they said. But, I don't see him saying that when God said not to eat shellfish, that applies to everyone throughout all time. In fact, I'm guessing he thinks the opposite, that it doesn't apply to everyone through all tine.

 

[Ilov80s]

PLEASE TAKE THE TIME TO READ THIS. IT'S THE MOST IMPORTANT THING YOU COULD EVER DO AND IT ONLY TAKES A FEW MINUTES
ARE YOU 100% SURE THAT IF YOU DIED TODAY THAT YOU WOULD GO TO HEAVEN? (CLICK 'READ MORE')

There are some things that you should know:

1. Realize that you are a sinner and in need of a Savior:

Ro 3:23 "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;"

Ro 3:10 "As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:"

It all began when the first humans, Adam and Eve were created and God put them in the garden of Eden. God created them perfect to live in fellowship with Him. There was no death or sorrow. God told them not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. They disobeyed God and as a result, sin entered into the world. The pain, which this world sees, is the result of sin.

2. Because of our sins, we die both spiritually and physically, but God sent His Son to die so that you can have a chance not to have to go to hell by accepting what He did on the cross:

Ro 6:23 "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."

Ro 5:8 "But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us."

Every person who has ever lived is a sinner and is not righteous because we do bad things. A sin is a crime against God, just as if you steal something at the store, it is punishable by going to jail. It's the same thing with sin. Lying, stealing, sex before marriage, pride, hatred, ect. are all sins. Hell is a prison for those who commit crimes against God. That's because you must be perfect in order to get to heaven. No matter how well you live your life from then on, you have already sinned, which will be punished if you are not pardoned. If you commit a crime, and then live as a good citizen you still will go to jail for the crime you committed. Right? Just as the President can pardon a crime so you won't go to jail, Jesus can pardon your sins so that you do not go to hell, and can go to heaven when you die. You won't have to pay for your own sins because Jesus already did that for you, But if you reject the pardon that He offers, you will have to pay for your own sins by going to hell. He is the only one qualified because He is the only one ever to live a sinless, perfect life.

3. If you will confess Jesus Christ as Your Lord, place your Faith in Him and Believe in your heart that He died, shed His blood and rose again as a sacrifice for your sins, you will be saved (to go to heaven)

Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.

Heb 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

You cannot get to heaven by being a good person, going to church, baptism or any other way other than by turning to Jesus, believing in your heart that He died on the cross and rose from the dead for your sins and placing your Faith in Him. While these are good things to do, some people believe that they will get to heaven, but your Faith must be in Christ and His sacrifice alone and nothing else, giving your life to Him.

Eph 2:8,9 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.

Ro 10:9,10;13 "that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved...For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."

4. You must submit your life to Jesus Christ and His will in Faith, believing in your heart that He died and rose again shedding His blood to pay for your sins as a sacrifice to God. If you want to accept Jesus free gift of salvation, or if you have any doubts about whether or not you are going to heaven, YOU COULD HUMBLY PRAY SOMETHING LIKE THIS TO GOD FROM YOUR HEART IN FAITH:

"Dear Lord Jesus I know that I am a sinner and need you to save me. I believe that You are the Lord and believe in my heart that You died on the Cross and Rose from the dead, shedding your blood as a Sacrifice for my sins. I turn to You as the only way of Salvation, I submit my life to you, I submit my will to yours, I place my Faith and Trust in You alone as Lord of my life, Please save me and I thank You for it, in Jesus holy name, Amen."

If you have truly placed your faith in Jesus Christ as your Lord, submitting your life to Him, you can know that you are a child of God and on your way to heaven. Now that you are on your way to heaven, you should attend a bible believing church and follow in baptism.

Studying The Bible Is Essential To Christians Growth. Click Here To Walk Through The Bible Verse By Verse From The Beginning, In 25 Minute Lessons:

Through the Bible with Les Feldick

Excellent Genesis-Revelation Bible study, Rightly-Dividing the Word: 82 books and MP3 Audio on-line. Les is an Oklahoma rancher who teaches non-denominational, home-style Bible classes.

www.lesfeldick.org

Shouldn’t you also give away most of your earthly possessions to the poor? Whole camel eye of the needle thing.

 

[Navin Johnson]

PLEASE TAKE THE TIME TO READ THIS. IT'S THE MOST IMPORTANT THING YOU COULD EVER DO AND IT ONLY TAKES A FEW MINUTES
ARE YOU 100% SURE THAT IF YOU DIED TODAY THAT YOU WOULD GO TO HEAVEN? (CLICK 'READ MORE')

There are some things that you should know:

1. Realize that you are a sinner and in need of a Savior:

Ro 3:23 "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;"

Ro 3:10 "As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:"

It all began when the first humans, Adam and Eve were created and God put them in the garden of Eden. God created them perfect to live in fellowship with Him. There was no death or sorrow. God told them not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. They disobeyed God and as a result, sin entered into the world. The pain, which this world sees, is the result of sin.

2. Because of our sins, we die both spiritually and physically, but God sent His Son to die so that you can have a chance not to have to go to hell by accepting what He did on the cross:

Ro 6:23 "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."

Ro 5:8 "But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us."

Every person who has ever lived is a sinner and is not righteous because we do bad things. A sin is a crime against God, just as if you steal something at the store, it is punishable by going to jail. It's the same thing with sin. Lying, stealing, sex before marriage, pride, hatred, ect. are all sins. Hell is a prison for those who commit crimes against God. That's because you must be perfect in order to get to heaven. No matter how well you live your life from then on, you have already sinned, which will be punished if you are not pardoned. If you commit a crime, and then live as a good citizen you still will go to jail for the crime you committed. Right? Just as the President can pardon a crime so you won't go to jail, Jesus can pardon your sins so that you do not go to hell, and can go to heaven when you die. You won't have to pay for your own sins because Jesus already did that for you, But if you reject the pardon that He offers, you will have to pay for your own sins by going to hell. He is the only one qualified because He is the only one ever to live a sinless, perfect life.

3. If you will confess Jesus Christ as Your Lord, place your Faith in Him and Believe in your heart that He died, shed His blood and rose again as a sacrifice for your sins, you will be saved (to go to heaven)

Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.

Heb 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

You cannot get to heaven by being a good person, going to church, baptism or any other way other than by turning to Jesus, believing in your heart that He died on the cross and rose from the dead for your sins and placing your Faith in Him. While these are good things to do, some people believe that they will get to heaven, but your Faith must be in Christ and His sacrifice alone and nothing else, giving your life to Him.

Eph 2:8,9 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.

Ro 10:9,10;13 "that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved...For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."

4. You must submit your life to Jesus Christ and His will in Faith, believing in your heart that He died and rose again shedding His blood to pay for your sins as a sacrifice to God. If you want to accept Jesus free gift of salvation, or if you have any doubts about whether or not you are going to heaven, YOU COULD HUMBLY PRAY SOMETHING LIKE THIS TO GOD FROM YOUR HEART IN FAITH:

"Dear Lord Jesus I know that I am a sinner and need you to save me. I believe that You are the Lord and believe in my heart that You died on the Cross and Rose from the dead, shedding your blood as a Sacrifice for my sins. I turn to You as the only way of Salvation, I submit my life to you, I submit my will to yours, I place my Faith and Trust in You alone as Lord of my life, Please save me and I thank You for it, in Jesus holy name, Amen."

If you have truly placed your faith in Jesus Christ as your Lord, submitting your life to Him, you can know that you are a child of God and on your way to heaven. Now that you are on your way to heaven, you should attend a bible believing church and follow in baptism.

Studying The Bible Is Essential To Christians Growth. Click Here To Walk Through The Bible Verse By Verse From The Beginning, In 25 Minute Lessons:

Through the Bible with Les Feldick

Excellent Genesis-Revelation Bible study, Rightly-Dividing the Word: 82 books and MP3 Audio on-line. Les is an Oklahoma rancher who teaches non-denominational, home-style Bible classes.

www.lesfeldick.org

Shouldn’t you also give away most of your earthly possessions to the poor? Whole camel eye of the needle thing.

Does that apply to Joel Osteen Christians as well?

 

[dkp993]

Well, I believe that those that allegorize the Bible, are using it as an excuse to change the actual meaning of what is saying into what THEY want to believe. There are some allegories in the Bible, but they are always interpreted by the Bible itself and always have a literal meaning. For the most part, it says what it means and means what it says. God isn't trying to hide things from.people who are sincere in knowing the truth, but He has been known to hide things from those who don't really trust in Him or His Word. Those who would create God in their own image, rather than conforming to the image of Christ. The Bible interprets itself.

@Paddington as a Bible literalist where do you stand on the books of the Old Testament? Are those the direct word of God too?

Absolutely, 100% the Word of God. Jesus Himself quoted the Old Testament as authoritative from God.

Do a Bible search on the phrase "It is written" and count how many times Jesus references the Bible as authoritative from God. Peter & Paul also reference the Bible as authoritative from God.

Paul

2 Timothy 3:16 NIV
[16] All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,

Peter

2 Peter 1:21 NIV
[21] For prophecy never had its origin in the human will, but prophets, though human, spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit

@Paddington as a Bible literalist where do you stand on the books of the Old Testament? Are those the direct word of God too?

this is what Pope John Paul II said on this:

The Holy Roman Church... firmly believes, professes and teaches that the matter pertaining to the law of the Old Testament, of the Mosaic law... after our Lord's coming had been signified by them, ceased, and the sacraments of the New Testament began;... after the promulgation of the Gospel it asserts that they cannot be observed without the loss of eternal salvation. All, therefore, who after that time observe circumcision and the Sabbath and the other requirements of the law, the holy Roman Church declares alien to the Christian faith and not in the least fit to participate in eternal salvation.

That’s very convenient.
Regardless, Paddington has a literalist viewpoint on the Bible, so I’m just wondering how he (and others like him) rationalize those “teachings” with the modern life.

I’ve never heard anyone define “literalism” as requiring that every word is universally prescriptive.

You do now. Paddington has made it clear here multiple times he does.

I haven't interpreted anything he's said to mean that but maybe I missed it (I certainly haven't read every post). When he says he reads the Bible literally, I think he means that when it says something happened then it happened. And it happened the way it says it happened. And people said what the Bible says they said. But, I don't see him saying that when God said not to eat shellfish, that applies to everyone throughout all time. In fact, I'm guessing he thinks the opposite, that it doesn't apply to everyone through all tine.

From this page alone.

 

[Sparky Polastri]

You literally posted it after his reply.

I explained to you how I use this board. If you want to ignore that, I can't control it.

 

[dgreen]

Well, I believe that those that allegorize the Bible, are using it as an excuse to change the actual meaning of what is saying into what THEY want to believe. There are some allegories in the Bible, but they are always interpreted by the Bible itself and always have a literal meaning. For the most part, it says what it means and means what it says. God isn't trying to hide things from.people who are sincere in knowing the truth, but He has been known to hide things from those who don't really trust in Him or His Word. Those who would create God in their own image, rather than conforming to the image of Christ. The Bible interprets itself.

@Paddington as a Bible literalist where do you stand on the books of the Old Testament? Are those the direct word of God too?

Absolutely, 100% the Word of God. Jesus Himself quoted the Old Testament as authoritative from God.

Do a Bible search on the phrase "It is written" and count how many times Jesus references the Bible as authoritative from God. Peter & Paul also reference the Bible as authoritative from God.

Paul

2 Timothy 3:16 NIV
[16] All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,

Peter

2 Peter 1:21 NIV
[21] For prophecy never had its origin in the human will, but prophets, though human, spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit

@Paddington as a Bible literalist where do you stand on the books of the Old Testament? Are those the direct word of God too?

this is what Pope John Paul II said on this:

The Holy Roman Church... firmly believes, professes and teaches that the matter pertaining to the law of the Old Testament, of the Mosaic law... after our Lord's coming had been signified by them, ceased, and the sacraments of the New Testament began;... after the promulgation of the Gospel it asserts that they cannot be observed without the loss of eternal salvation. All, therefore, who after that time observe circumcision and the Sabbath and the other requirements of the law, the holy Roman Church declares alien to the Christian faith and not in the least fit to participate in eternal salvation.

That’s very convenient.
Regardless, Paddington has a literalist viewpoint on the Bible, so I’m just wondering how he (and others like him) rationalize those “teachings” with the modern life.

I’ve never heard anyone define “literalism” as requiring that every word is universally prescriptive.

You do now. Paddington has made it clear here multiple times he does.

I haven't interpreted anything he's said to mean that but maybe I missed it (I certainly haven't read every post). When he says he reads the Bible literally, I think he means that when it says something happened then it happened. And it happened the way it says it happened. And people said what the Bible says they said. But, I don't see him saying that when God said not to eat shellfish, that applies to everyone throughout all time. In fact, I'm guessing he thinks the opposite, that it doesn't apply to everyone through all tine.

From this page alone.

Hmm, I'm still not seeing anything related to the point I was trying to make. Maybe I argued against a point you weren't making and I just confused things. And we might be using certain words differently. It's all good.

 

[Ilov80s]

PLEASE TAKE THE TIME TO READ THIS. IT'S THE MOST IMPORTANT THING YOU COULD EVER DO AND IT ONLY TAKES A FEW MINUTES
ARE YOU 100% SURE THAT IF YOU DIED TODAY THAT YOU WOULD GO TO HEAVEN? (CLICK 'READ MORE')

There are some things that you should know:

1. Realize that you are a sinner and in need of a Savior:

Ro 3:23 "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;"

Ro 3:10 "As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:"

It all began when the first humans, Adam and Eve were created and God put them in the garden of Eden. God created them perfect to live in fellowship with Him. There was no death or sorrow. God told them not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. They disobeyed God and as a result, sin entered into the world. The pain, which this world sees, is the result of sin.

2. Because of our sins, we die both spiritually and physically, but God sent His Son to die so that you can have a chance not to have to go to hell by accepting what He did on the cross:

Ro 6:23 "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."

Ro 5:8 "But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us."

Every person who has ever lived is a sinner and is not righteous because we do bad things. A sin is a crime against God, just as if you steal something at the store, it is punishable by going to jail. It's the same thing with sin. Lying, stealing, sex before marriage, pride, hatred, ect. are all sins. Hell is a prison for those who commit crimes against God. That's because you must be perfect in order to get to heaven. No matter how well you live your life from then on, you have already sinned, which will be punished if you are not pardoned. If you commit a crime, and then live as a good citizen you still will go to jail for the crime you committed. Right? Just as the President can pardon a crime so you won't go to jail, Jesus can pardon your sins so that you do not go to hell, and can go to heaven when you die. You won't have to pay for your own sins because Jesus already did that for you, But if you reject the pardon that He offers, you will have to pay for your own sins by going to hell. He is the only one qualified because He is the only one ever to live a sinless, perfect life.

3. If you will confess Jesus Christ as Your Lord, place your Faith in Him and Believe in your heart that He died, shed His blood and rose again as a sacrifice for your sins, you will be saved (to go to heaven)

Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.

Heb 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

You cannot get to heaven by being a good person, going to church, baptism or any other way other than by turning to Jesus, believing in your heart that He died on the cross and rose from the dead for your sins and placing your Faith in Him. While these are good things to do, some people believe that they will get to heaven, but your Faith must be in Christ and His sacrifice alone and nothing else, giving your life to Him.

Eph 2:8,9 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.

Ro 10:9,10;13 "that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved...For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."

4. You must submit your life to Jesus Christ and His will in Faith, believing in your heart that He died and rose again shedding His blood to pay for your sins as a sacrifice to God. If you want to accept Jesus free gift of salvation, or if you have any doubts about whether or not you are going to heaven, YOU COULD HUMBLY PRAY SOMETHING LIKE THIS TO GOD FROM YOUR HEART IN FAITH:

"Dear Lord Jesus I know that I am a sinner and need you to save me. I believe that You are the Lord and believe in my heart that You died on the Cross and Rose from the dead, shedding your blood as a Sacrifice for my sins. I turn to You as the only way of Salvation, I submit my life to you, I submit my will to yours, I place my Faith and Trust in You alone as Lord of my life, Please save me and I thank You for it, in Jesus holy name, Amen."

If you have truly placed your faith in Jesus Christ as your Lord, submitting your life to Him, you can know that you are a child of God and on your way to heaven. Now that you are on your way to heaven, you should attend a bible believing church and follow in baptism.

Studying The Bible Is Essential To Christians Growth. Click Here To Walk Through The Bible Verse By Verse From The Beginning, In 25 Minute Lessons:

Through the Bible with Les Feldick

Excellent Genesis-Revelation Bible study, Rightly-Dividing the Word: 82 books and MP3 Audio on-line. Les is an Oklahoma rancher who teaches non-denominational, home-style Bible classes.

www.lesfeldick.org

Shouldn’t you also give away most of your earthly possessions to the poor? Whole camel eye of the needle thing.

Does that apply to Joel Osteen Christians as well?

I mean I do wonder that, yeah

 

[dkp993]

Hmm, I'm still not seeing anything related to the point I was trying to make. Maybe I argued against a point you weren't making and I just confused things. And we might be using certain words differently. It's all good.

I guess I’m not really understanding your point. He has made it clear he takes the Bible literally at its word. With very little, if any, interpretation. He’s said this over and over again, including in the posts I linked above. Because of this I asked very specific questions of that literalness to which I’m still awaiting his answers on.

You’re a very thoughtful and intelligent poster, so I’m really not sure why this isn’t clear or where our disconnect is.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Does that apply to Joel Osteen Christians as well?

I don't think God requires people to give up all their things and give them to the poor.

I do think God asks his people to care for the poor and to be generous to others.

This is often referenced in the "Rich Young Ruler" story. "Camel and eye of the needle" is also mentioned here that you referenced. I'm sure some of our bible experts might have more scholarly thoughts on it.

Mark 10:17-27
New Living Translation
The Rich Man
17 As Jesus was starting out on his way to Jerusalem, a man came running up to him, knelt down, and asked, “Good Teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?”

18 “Why do you call me good?” Jesus asked. “Only God is truly good. 19 But to answer your question, you know the commandments: ‘You must not murder. You must not commit adultery. You must not steal. You must not testify falsely. You must not cheat anyone. Honor your father and mother.’[a]”

20 “Teacher,” the man replied, “I’ve obeyed all these commandments since I was young.”

21 Looking at the man, Jesus felt genuine love for him. “There is still one thing you haven’t done,” he told him. “Go and sell all your possessions and give the money to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”

22 At this the man’s face fell, and he went away sad, for he had many possessions.

23 Jesus looked around and said to his disciples, “How hard it is for the rich to enter the Kingdom of God!” 24 This amazed them. But Jesus said again, “Dear children, it is very hard to enter the Kingdom of God. 25 In fact, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the Kingdom of God!”

26 The disciples were astounded. “Then who in the world can be saved?” they asked.

27 Jesus looked at them intently and said, “Humanly speaking, it is impossible. But not with God. Everything is possible with God.”

I understand this to mean what Jesus talked about in the two most important commandments.

Matthew 22:36-40
New Living Translation
36 “Teacher, which is the most important commandment in the law of Moses?”

37 Jesus replied, “‘You must love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your soul, and all your mind.’[a] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 A second is equally important: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 The entire law and all the demands of the prophets are based on these two commandments.”

​

I think what Jesus was saying to the Rich guy was you can't put money ahead of God. You can have it. It just can't be more important than God.

Clearly, God's people in the bible have a wide range of financial situations. From slaves to kings. So God doesn't seem to be saying you can't have money. He's saying it has to stay in perspective.

Or at least that's how I see it.

 

[Zow]

Hmm, I'm still not seeing anything related to the point I was trying to make. Maybe I argued against a point you weren't making and I just confused things. And we might be using certain words differently. It's all good.

I guess I’m not really understanding your point. He has made it clear he takes the Bible literally at its word. With very little, if any, interpretation. He’s said this over and over again, including in the posts I linked above. Because of this I asked very specific questions of that literalness to which I’m still awaiting his answers on.

You’re a very thoughtful and intelligent poster, so I’m really not sure why this isn’t clear or where our disconnect is.

FWIW I read it the same was as dkp.

Paddington, to his credit, has been very consistent in this thread about these sorts of issues and what they mean and that such is quite literal.

 

[Captain Cranks]

I do think there is motivation for followers to find explanations for things in the Bible that aren't so savory. My guess is things that easily reconcile with the standards of today or preconceived notions of how people/God should act aren't parsed as much as the controversial stuff. Matthew 10:34-37 is an example where the face value interpretation doesn't sound so great which motivates the reader to find a softer meaning.