How To Get To Heaven When You Die. Read The First Post. Then Q&A Discussion. Ask Questions Here! (1 Viewer)

[belljr]

So if we are sinners, why is homosexuality a problem?

 

[Jayrod]

Judging God based on...1) our personal standards of morality/goodness/etc., 2) our understanding of who/what God is, 3) our understanding of what God has done and is doing...is all incredibly foolish

Isn’t that exactly what you have done in this post?

“These things may seem confusing or even nonsense, but after 34 years at this I can assure you the pieces fit. No I don't have all of the answers, but there is a deep and perfect logic to God's work. He is both just and gracious at the same time.”

You consider that judging? I guess you could make that argument. I'm believing what God has said about himself.

Probably a better way to say it is that criticizing God is foolish.

 

[dgreen]

It’s not clear to me what Heaven actually is. How do I know I want to go there?

In all seriousness, can someone describe to me what my day to day will be like?

Try it out. Start living in God’s Kingdom now and see if you like it.

 

[Jayrod]

So if we are sinners, why is homosexuality a problem?

Paul saw that question in his day too.

Romans 6:
"What shall we say then, shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? By no means! We died to sin, how can we live in it any longer?"

Salvation is not a free pass to sin more.

 

[belljr]

And I asked this in good faith

Why do some that are Christians get angry at people and "put them down" if they don't follow their beliefs.

Why would you care if a person is living in sin (using homosexual as an example). When it comes time for judgement that's between God and that person. Seems to me degrading someone in the name of religion is not any different than a person committing the actual sin.

I have many questions on how other religions fit into all of this Islam, Judaism etc but that's all for now

Fwiw I grew up Methodist but have not been a practicing Methodist for almost my entire adult life. I was never baptized so I have no shot according to Christian teachings

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Why would you care if a person is living in sin (using homosexual as an example).

I don't.

 

[BlackCrowes]

Judging God based on...1) our personal standards of morality/goodness/etc., 2) our understanding of who/what God is, 3) our understanding of what God has done and is doing...is all incredibly foolish.

Even atheists must admit in theory that men are so woeful in comparison to an all knowing, all powerful God on those fronts, that it takes quite an opinion of one's self to speak as though qualified on the subject.

Yet every single time we do this it comes up over and over. Men seem fit to judge that which is greater than them and better than them. I've done it and the temptation is great to shake my fist at the sky and scream "Why!" when I perceive some injustice or inconsistency.

However, if the God of the Bible exists (as I firmly believe He does), then our understanding of Him is miniscule. He is unfathomable and unknowable outside of what he empowers us to know and understand.

You may think that "isn't fair", but what do we honestly know of fairness in such a world in the face of its Creator?

Whatever is true is so regardless of our own knowledge or opinion of it, despite what modern "philosophy" would have us believe. In other words God is God as He deems fit and our judgement of Him means nothing for Him, but everything for us.

And thanks be to God that He is good. That He does good and presents to all mankind a good life in Him. Not a life without trial, pain or difficulty, but a life of purpose, love, and yes, a blessed hope of eternity with Him. Doing all that we were made to do in a place made just for that purpose, uncursed and unobstructed by sickness or evil, a paradise (Jesus' own word).

And while belief is often thrown around as the prerequisite, it is FAITH that is the true key to salvation. Faith without works does not exist. If you believe in Him you would believe the words Jesus spoke and obey them. No one is able to do this apart from God. His grace saves you but your life is the evidence of that salvation. For a tree will be known by its fruit.

These things may seem confusing or even nonsense, but after 34 years at this I can assure you the pieces fit. No I don't have all of the answers, but there is a deep and perfect logic to God's work. He is both just and gracious at the same time.

sure, if i thought omnipotence or omniscience were possible, i would admit that. but i don't.

 

[Joe Bryant]

So if we are sinners, why is homosexuality a problem?

It can be divisive among some churches and Christians. But I will say it's not a problem for a lot of Christians.

 

[Dan Lambskin]

Do babies and small children who die young get to go to heaven?

What about severely mentally handicapped people who would lack the cognitive ability to ask for forgiveness for their sins?

 

[Zow]

Do babies and small children who die young get to go to heaven?

What about severely mentally handicapped people who would lack the cognitive ability to ask for forgiveness for their sins?

The Catholics actually have dogmatic "outs" for these instances spelled out in the catechisms. IIRC there are concepts of "baptism by blood" and "baptism by desire" which basically create a presumption for these individuals that had they had the logistic opportunity to do so they would have chosen baptism/God and God knows that so they're fine.

I remember as a teenager (when I was basically walk on egg shells about sinning because I was in constant fear of dying with a mortal sin on my soul as Catholics believes that's an auto-ticket to Hell so I used to think if I pictured a girl naked then got hit by a bus I'd spent eternity in flames) being envious of those in small African tribes and babies who died at birth because their paths seemed easier than mine where, again, I was told I was going to hell for even thinking any prurient thoughts about the pretty blonde next to me in class.

 

[Dan Lambskin]

Do babies and small children who die young get to go to heaven?

What about severely mentally handicapped people who would lack the cognitive ability to ask for forgiveness for their sins?

The Catholics actually have dogmatic "outs" for these instances spelled out in the catechisms. IIRC there are concepts of "baptism by blood" and "baptism by desire" which basically create a presumption for these individuals that had they had the logistic opportunity to do so they would have chosen baptism/God and God knows that so they're fine.

I remember as a teenager (when I was basically walk on egg shells about sinning because I was in constant fear of dying with a mortal sin on my soul as Catholics believes that's an auto-ticket to Hell so I used to think if I pictured a girl naked then got hit by a bus I'd spent eternity in flames) being envious of those in small African tribes and babies who died at birth because their paths seemed easier than mine where, again, I was told I was going to hell for even thinking any prurient thoughts about the pretty blonde next to me in class.

Do babies and small children who die young get to go to heaven?

What about severely mentally handicapped people who would lack the cognitive ability to ask for forgiveness for their sins?

The Catholics actually have dogmatic "outs" for these instances spelled out in the catechisms. IIRC there are concepts of "baptism by blood" and "baptism by desire" which basically create a presumption for these individuals that had they had the logistic opportunity to do so they would have chosen baptism/God and God knows that so they're fine.

I remember as a teenager (when I was basically walk on egg shells about sinning because I was in constant fear of dying with a mortal sin on my soul as Catholics believes that's an auto-ticket to Hell so I used to think if I pictured a girl naked then got hit by a bus I'd spent eternity in flames) being envious of those in small African tribes and babies who died at birth because their paths seemed easier than mine where, again, I was told I was going to hell for even thinking any prurient thoughts about the pretty blonde next to me in class.

What if they’re born to a family of atheists or satan worshipers or something? Does god still make that same assumption? Wouldn’t logic tell you they likely wouldn’t be going down a path of choosing god?

 

[Zow]

Do babies and small children who die young get to go to heaven?

What about severely mentally handicapped people who would lack the cognitive ability to ask for forgiveness for their sins?

The Catholics actually have dogmatic "outs" for these instances spelled out in the catechisms. IIRC there are concepts of "baptism by blood" and "baptism by desire" which basically create a presumption for these individuals that had they had the logistic opportunity to do so they would have chosen baptism/God and God knows that so they're fine.

I remember as a teenager (when I was basically walk on egg shells about sinning because I was in constant fear of dying with a mortal sin on my soul as Catholics believes that's an auto-ticket to Hell so I used to think if I pictured a girl naked then got hit by a bus I'd spent eternity in flames) being envious of those in small African tribes and babies who died at birth because their paths seemed easier than mine where, again, I was told I was going to hell for even thinking any prurient thoughts about the pretty blonde next to me in class.

Do babies and small children who die young get to go to heaven?

What about severely mentally handicapped people who would lack the cognitive ability to ask for forgiveness for their sins?

The Catholics actually have dogmatic "outs" for these instances spelled out in the catechisms. IIRC there are concepts of "baptism by blood" and "baptism by desire" which basically create a presumption for these individuals that had they had the logistic opportunity to do so they would have chosen baptism/God and God knows that so they're fine.

I remember as a teenager (when I was basically walk on egg shells about sinning because I was in constant fear of dying with a mortal sin on my soul as Catholics believes that's an auto-ticket to Hell so I used to think if I pictured a girl naked then got hit by a bus I'd spent eternity in flames) being envious of those in small African tribes and babies who died at birth because their paths seemed easier than mine where, again, I was told I was going to hell for even thinking any prurient thoughts about the pretty blonde next to me in class.

What if they’re born to a family of atheists or satan worshipers or something? Does god still make that same assumption? Wouldn’t logic tell you they likely wouldn’t be going down a path of choosing god?

IIRC the theory is that God can peer into their souls and see or some such.

Even at the time when I was a devout Catholic I struggled with the logic of it all and feared these dogmas seemed like convenient "outs" but, like Jayrod argues above, I just reverted to the idea that basically my human pee-brain is too dumb to understand it and God's got it and I should just have faith.

ETA: Please bear with me as I haven't studied the catechisms in probably twenty years.

 

[dgreen]

Do babies and small children who die young get to go to heaven?

What about severely mentally handicapped people who would lack the cognitive ability to ask for forgiveness for their sins?

The Catholics actually have dogmatic "outs" for these instances spelled out in the catechisms. IIRC there are concepts of "baptism by blood" and "baptism by desire" which basically create a presumption for these individuals that had they had the logistic opportunity to do so they would have chosen baptism/God and God knows that so they're fine.

I remember as a teenager (when I was basically walk on egg shells about sinning because I was in constant fear of dying with a mortal sin on my soul as Catholics believes that's an auto-ticket to Hell so I used to think if I pictured a girl naked then got hit by a bus I'd spent eternity in flames) being envious of those in small African tribes and babies who died at birth because their paths seemed easier than mine where, again, I was told I was going to hell for even thinking any prurient thoughts about the pretty blonde next to me in class.

Do babies and small children who die young get to go to heaven?

What about severely mentally handicapped people who would lack the cognitive ability to ask for forgiveness for their sins?

The Catholics actually have dogmatic "outs" for these instances spelled out in the catechisms. IIRC there are concepts of "baptism by blood" and "baptism by desire" which basically create a presumption for these individuals that had they had the logistic opportunity to do so they would have chosen baptism/God and God knows that so they're fine.

I remember as a teenager (when I was basically walk on egg shells about sinning because I was in constant fear of dying with a mortal sin on my soul as Catholics believes that's an auto-ticket to Hell so I used to think if I pictured a girl naked then got hit by a bus I'd spent eternity in flames) being envious of those in small African tribes and babies who died at birth because their paths seemed easier than mine where, again, I was told I was going to hell for even thinking any prurient thoughts about the pretty blonde next to me in class.

What if they’re born to a family of atheists or satan worshipers or something? Does god still make that same assumption? Wouldn’t logic tell you they likely wouldn’t be going down a path of choosing god?

I'd like to say these are stupid questions, but unfortunately they are good questions based on how many Christians talk about salvation and going to Heaven after you die.

 

[Scoresman]

Why would you care if a person is living in sin (using homosexual as an example).

I don't.

w

Congrats. Can you spread this wisdom to those Christians who spend their time and money trying to pass laws to keep homosexuals from marrying?

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Why would you care if a person is living in sin (using homosexual as an example).

I don't.

Congrats. Can you spread this wisdom to those Christians who spend their time and money trying to pass laws to keep homosexuals from marrying or women from ending unwanted pregnancies?

I'm fairness, those are two radically different things.

 

[JAA]

It’s not clear to me what Heaven actually is. How do I know I want to go there?

In all seriousness, can someone describe to me what my day to day will be like?

Jesus directly addresses this topic a bunch of times in the NT. Pretty much every time (I think 100% but I'm not sure), he speaks in parable form and basically tells his disciples that they're not going to get it and it's going to a bit of surprise.

Ok

So how do I know I want to go there? Respectfully, I would be spending eternity there, so it feels like a really big decision.

It's up to you. Nobody's forcing you.

Right.

Im asking for information so I can make an informed decision on eternity once I die.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Why would you care if a person is living in sin (using homosexual as an example).

I don't.

Congrats. Can you spread this wisdom to those Christians who spend their time and money trying to pass laws to keep homosexuals from marrying or women from ending unwanted pregnancies?

No. I can't control what other people do, and I don't worry about things outside my locus of control.

Also, we've been trying to keep this non-political.

 

[Scoresman]

Why would you care if a person is living in sin (using homosexual as an example).

I don't.

Congrats. Can you spread this wisdom to those Christians who spend their time and money trying to pass laws to keep homosexuals from marrying or women from ending unwanted pregnancies?

I'm fairness, those are two radically different things.

Actually I agree. Just the first then.

 

[Jayrod]

Why would you care if a person is living in sin (using homosexual as an example).

I don't.

Congrats. Can you spread this wisdom to those Christians who spend their time and money trying to pass laws to keep homosexuals from marrying or women from ending unwanted pregnancies?

I don't get why these two issues are constantly conflated.

They are drastically different, IMO.

One I shrug and say non-Christians aren't going to adhere to God's law. On the other I say innocent children are being slaughtered by the 100's of thousands each year. Kind of apples and spaceships if you get my drift.

 

[JAA]

It’s not clear to me what Heaven actually is. How do I know I want to go there?

In all seriousness, can someone describe to me what my day to day will be like?

Try it out. Start living in God’s Kingdom now and see if you like it.

I don't understand. Is heaven the same as earth? Are there no differences?

 

[Dan Lambskin]

Do babies and small children who die young get to go to heaven?

What about severely mentally handicapped people who would lack the cognitive ability to ask for forgiveness for their sins?

The Catholics actually have dogmatic "outs" for these instances spelled out in the catechisms. IIRC there are concepts of "baptism by blood" and "baptism by desire" which basically create a presumption for these individuals that had they had the logistic opportunity to do so they would have chosen baptism/God and God knows that so they're fine.

I remember as a teenager (when I was basically walk on egg shells about sinning because I was in constant fear of dying with a mortal sin on my soul as Catholics believes that's an auto-ticket to Hell so I used to think if I pictured a girl naked then got hit by a bus I'd spent eternity in flames) being envious of those in small African tribes and babies who died at birth because their paths seemed easier than mine where, again, I was told I was going to hell for even thinking any prurient thoughts about the pretty blonde next to me in class.

Do babies and small children who die young get to go to heaven?

What about severely mentally handicapped people who would lack the cognitive ability to ask for forgiveness for their sins?

The Catholics actually have dogmatic "outs" for these instances spelled out in the catechisms. IIRC there are concepts of "baptism by blood" and "baptism by desire" which basically create a presumption for these individuals that had they had the logistic opportunity to do so they would have chosen baptism/God and God knows that so they're fine.

I remember as a teenager (when I was basically walk on egg shells about sinning because I was in constant fear of dying with a mortal sin on my soul as Catholics believes that's an auto-ticket to Hell so I used to think if I pictured a girl naked then got hit by a bus I'd spent eternity in flames) being envious of those in small African tribes and babies who died at birth because their paths seemed easier than mine where, again, I was told I was going to hell for even thinking any prurient thoughts about the pretty blonde next to me in class.

What if they’re born to a family of atheists or satan worshipers or something? Does god still make that same assumption? Wouldn’t logic tell you they likely wouldn’t be going down a path of choosing god?

I'd like to say these are stupid questions, but unfortunately they are good questions based on how many Christians talk about salvation and going to Heaven after you die.

It’s just interesting to me that he can make assumptions in some cases

What about someone who was on their way to church to repent and ask for forgiveness but gets hit by a truck. Does god forgive him? How does he know he wouldn’t back out?

 

[Dan Lambskin]

What about someone who dies in the middle of asking forgiveness? Does it become a Schrödinger's Cat situation? Would they exist in both heaven and hell?

 

[Jayrod]

It’s not clear to me what Heaven actually is. How do I know I want to go there?

In all seriousness, can someone describe to me what my day to day will be like?

Jesus directly addresses this topic a bunch of times in the NT. Pretty much every time (I think 100% but I'm not sure), he speaks in parable form and basically tells his disciples that they're not going to get it and it's going to a bit of surprise.

Ok

So how do I know I want to go there? Respectfully, I would be spending eternity there, so it feels like a really big decision.

It's up to you. Nobody's forcing you.

Right.

Im asking for information so I can make an informed decision on eternity once I die.

I'll bite.

Here's what we know from the Bible. It is a paradise akin to the garden of Eden. There will be work to do, but it won't be difficult and frustrating. There won't be sickness, evil or death and we'll get to know and understand God on a level beyond what we have now. Relationships will have eternity to grow and love will be abundant. Not to be crass, but I imagine a euphoric feeling beyond even sex.

Heaven will not want to be missed. Those that do will be in a place where there is "weeping and gnashing of teeth". It is no joke and the differences cannot be understated.

 

[Jayrod]

What about someone who dies in the middle of asking forgiveness? Does it become a Schrödinger's Cat situation? Would they exist in both heaven and hell?

Good thing is, we don't have to worry and decide. That us on the all-knowing, timeless, perfect God to decide.

 

[Scoresman]

Why would you care if a person is living in sin (using homosexual as an example).

I don't.

Congrats. Can you spread this wisdom to those Christians who spend their time and money trying to pass laws to keep homosexuals from marrying or women from ending unwanted pregnancies?

I don't get why these two issues are constantly conflated.

They are drastically different, IMO.

One I shrug and say non-Christians aren't going to adhere to God's law. On the other I say innocent children are being slaughtered by the 100's of thousands each year. Kind of apples and spaceships if you get my drift.

Yeah I edited my post to remove the last point because for that I can at least see and understand the opposing point of view. But for LGBTQ stuff, I dont get it at all. Parts of the Christian church have been trying to make their existence hell on earth, and it's really the one issue that begs the original question "Why would you care if a person is living in sin?"

 

[Dan Lambskin]

What about someone who dies in the middle of asking forgiveness? Does it become a Schrödinger's Cat situation? Would they exist in both heaven and hell?

Good thing is, we don't have to worry and decide. That us on the all-knowing, timeless, perfect God to decide.

So how do we know we have to ask for forgiveness then?

 

[Jayrod]

What about someone who dies in the middle of asking forgiveness? Does it become a Schrödinger's Cat situation? Would they exist in both heaven and hell?

Good thing is, we don't have to worry and decide. That us on the all-knowing, timeless, perfect God to decide.

So how do we know we have to ask for forgiveness then?

Because that same God says as much. He'll judge the truth and the intent of men's hearts. Again, He knows all.

 

[TennesseeJed]

What about someone who dies in the middle of asking forgiveness? Does it become a Schrödinger's Cat situation? Would they exist in both heaven and hell?

Good thing is, we don't have to worry and decide. That us on the all-knowing, timeless, perfect God to decide.

So how do we know we have to ask for forgiveness then?

As my mom used to say, as she pulled out the wooden spoon: "You might not have done this, but you've done something."

 

[Jayrod]

Yeah I edited my post to remove the last point because for that I can at least see and understand the opposing point of view. But for LGBTQ stuff, I dont get it at all. Parts of the Christian church have been trying to make their existence hell on earth, and it's really the one issue that begs the original question "Why would you care if a person is living in sin?"

My honest answer is that Satan has done a lot of work to infiltrate and destroy the church from the inside. There are some vile evil people among "christians" who are constantly leading people astray. Jesus had the Pharisees in his day and the early church had the Gnostics...constantly evil people infiltrate that which is supposed to be God's. Good news is that he intends to judge them more harshly.

 

[Scoresman]

Yeah I edited my post to remove the last point because for that I can at least see and understand the opposing point of view. But for LGBTQ stuff, I dont get it at all. Parts of the Christian church have been trying to make their existence hell on earth, and it's really the one issue that begs the original question "Why would you care if a person is living in sin?"

My honest answer is that Satan has done a lot of work to infiltrate and destroy the church from the inside. There are some vile evil people among "christians" who are constantly leading people astray. Jesus had the Pharisees in his day and the early church had the Gnostics...constantly evil people infiltrate that which is supposed to be God's. Good news is that he intends to judge them more harshly.

Are you saying that the Christians who funded and voted for things like Prop 8 or who create those conversion therapy programs or who protest funerals are actually agents of Satan? I've never heard that explanation before but it makes sense!

 

[JAA]

It’s not clear to me what Heaven actually is. How do I know I want to go there?

In all seriousness, can someone describe to me what my day to day will be like?

Jesus directly addresses this topic a bunch of times in the NT. Pretty much every time (I think 100% but I'm not sure), he speaks in parable form and basically tells his disciples that they're not going to get it and it's going to a bit of surprise.

Ok

So how do I know I want to go there? Respectfully, I would be spending eternity there, so it feels like a really big decision.

It's up to you. Nobody's forcing you.

Right.

Im asking for information so I can make an informed decision on eternity once I die.

I'll bite.

Here's what we know from the Bible. It is a paradise akin to the garden of Eden. There will be work to do, but it won't be difficult and frustrating. There won't be sickness, evil or death and we'll get to know and understand God on a level beyond what we have now. Relationships will have eternity to grow and love will be abundant. Not to be crass, but I imagine a euphoric feeling beyond even sex.

Heaven will not want to be missed. Those that do will be in a place where there is "weeping and gnashing of teeth". It is no joke and the differences cannot be understated.

Thank you. I was sincere in my question.

Listening to your explanation, do you believe their can be good without evil? That their can be happiness without sadness?

I believe their cant be light without dark. That the sad times are what make the happy times so important. This is philosophical of course, and someone may quote the Matrix here, but Im not sure we are designed to be singular in our emotions/feelings.

Thank you for the convo

 

[Jayrod]

Yeah I edited my post to remove the last point because for that I can at least see and understand the opposing point of view. But for LGBTQ stuff, I dont get it at all. Parts of the Christian church have been trying to make their existence hell on earth, and it's really the one issue that begs the original question "Why would you care if a person is living in sin?"

My honest answer is that Satan has done a lot of work to infiltrate and destroy the church from the inside. There are some vile evil people among "christians" who are constantly leading people astray. Jesus had the Pharisees in his day and the early church had the Gnostics...constantly evil people infiltrate that which is supposed to be God's. Good news is that he intends to judge them more harshly.

Are you saying that the Christians who funded and voted for things like Prop 8 or who create those conversion therapy programs or who protest funerals are actually agents of Satan? I've never heard that explanation before but it makes sense!

In some (many/most?) cases, yes.

I'm never going to say that homosexuality is acceptable for a Christian to practice. But I also don't think it is of God to single them out and attack them as some special class of sinner. Jesus loves all men and died for all men. The rest can be sorted out later.

Why Christians expect non-Christians to adhere to God's laws is nonsensical. The early church didn't expect it, so not sure why the American church does.

 

[Jayrod]

It’s not clear to me what Heaven actually is. How do I know I want to go there?

In all seriousness, can someone describe to me what my day to day will be like?

Jesus directly addresses this topic a bunch of times in the NT. Pretty much every time (I think 100% but I'm not sure), he speaks in parable form and basically tells his disciples that they're not going to get it and it's going to a bit of surprise.

Ok

So how do I know I want to go there? Respectfully, I would be spending eternity there, so it feels like a really big decision.

It's up to you. Nobody's forcing you.

Right.

Im asking for information so I can make an informed decision on eternity once I die.

I'll bite.

Here's what we know from the Bible. It is a paradise akin to the garden of Eden. There will be work to do, but it won't be difficult and frustrating. There won't be sickness, evil or death and we'll get to know and understand God on a level beyond what we have now. Relationships will have eternity to grow and love will be abundant. Not to be crass, but I imagine a euphoric feeling beyond even sex.

Heaven will not want to be missed. Those that do will be in a place where there is "weeping and gnashing of teeth". It is no joke and the differences cannot be understated.

Thank you. I was sincere in my question.

Listening to your explanation, do you believe their can be good without evil? That their can be happiness without sadness?

I believe their cant be light without dark. That the sad times are what make the happy times so important. This is philosophical of course, and someone may quote the Matrix here, but Im not sure we are designed to be singular in our emotions/feelings.

Thank you for the convo

This may be getting a little deep, but I disagree a bit.

Darkness is the absence of light.
Hate/evil is the absence of love/good.
Etc.

The positive does and can exist wholly independent of the opposite.

 

[dgreen]

It’s not clear to me what Heaven actually is. How do I know I want to go there?

In all seriousness, can someone describe to me what my day to day will be like?

Try it out. Start living in God’s Kingdom now and see if you like it.

I don't understand. Is heaven the same as earth? Are there no differences?

I don't present myself as an expert on this. I'm someone who is trying to learn more and more. One thing I'm trying to get better at is telling the story. So, this probably doesn't directly address your question, but here it goes...

The basic idea is that there is a hope of a new creation. New creation is more about resetting this world to what it was originally intended to be rather than something that exists somewhere else in the clouds. In Judaism, they talk about tikkun olam, repairing the world. God established his kingdom, took his seat on his throne, and put humans in charge in Genesis 1-2. In chapter 3, we hear how humans get in the way of that plan by trying to do things our way instead of his way. In chapter 12, God partners with Abram and promises to bless the nations through him. The story is trying to get back to Eden. The rest of Genesis is God continuing to work through Abram's descendants despite them reliving Genesis 3 and getting in the way. Despite their mistakes, God continues to work out his promise to Abraham. In Exodus, the Israelites are saved out of slavery in Egypt and enter into a covenant with God to carry out that mission and be a kingdom of priests. They are headed to Canaan because that's where God wants his people to be. It's the crossroads of the world at that time, connecting what we call Africa, Asia, and Europe. As God's priests, they are to represent him to the nations so that the world can be blessed and no better place to do that than where the world travels through. We work our way towards Israel being a kingdom in the land. They fulfill their mission at times and fail at other times. As tends to happen, eventually they have declined into chaos. The kingdom splits, they violate the covenant, they mistreat people, they worship other gods, and they are sent into exile in Babylon. Exile ends and they return to Israel with a renewed desire to obey the covenant since they see that as the reason for exile. Rome arrives and plays the role of Egypt and Babylon. Once again God's people are under the boot of an empire. Jesus arrives and calls them back, like the prophets before him, to the covenant. He stresses the need for obedience to God and says it should all be done through the lens of love. In his interpretation, love is what it was always all about and his followers should live that out. Doing this, Jesus proclaims, "The Kingdom of God is here." That's his overarching message. God's Kingdom is here, originally established in Genesis 1. Live in it. Do what the king wants his people to do. They didn't talk so much about "going to Heaven after you die as a disembodied soul", rather they talked about how to live in the Kingdom now on this earth. They talked about this age and the age to come. The age to come wasn't pictured as something that happens when all of this is destroyed and our souls fly off into "Heaven". The age to come was the messianic age. Through Jesus the Messiah's resurrection, the age to come was inaugurated. Post-resurrection, the apostles go around bringing Kingdom, first to Jerusalem then Judea then Samaria then all the world. The Kingdom of God is being brought to the nations. The promise to Abram is being lived out. As it goes beyond Judea, the Gentiles (nations) are brought into the family covenant. They are now part of Abraham's descendants who are tasked with blessing the world and leading us back to Eden.

I'm sure others will quibble (or outright disagree) with some of those details, but the point is it's a story being played out. God's plan will happen and he wants us to join him, as Revelation paints the picture (originally envisioned by Isaiah) of this ultimate victory of God's Kingdom over the evil empires we've created that oppress, bringing this new creation and rescuing this world. Heaven is less about where it is and more about whose it is. "Kingdom of Heaven" is just an idiom for "Kingdom of God". Heaven is living in God's kingdom. As I've read some people say, "eternity starts now".

 

[TennesseeJed]

They are headed to Canaan because that's where God wants his people to be.

Aren't we all god's people?

 

[dgreen]

They are headed to Canaan because that's where God wants his people to be.

Aren't we all god's people?

I was just going with Biblical language there. We are all created as good images/idols of God (Genesis 1) but those who are in covenant relationship with God are referred to as his "people" in the Bible. But, yes, in some sense I'd agree that we are all his people in that we are all part of his good creation. To use the parent-child metaphor, we are all children of God.

 

[Joe Bryant]

A thought.

I don't think how one feels about God or if they choose to follow Jesus and God is a perfect solvable problem where everything is buttoned up nice and tidy and every single objection on the "punch list" is resolved and checked off.

It's an old book now, but Lee Strobels "Case For Christ" book I think presents a good way to think of it. He looks at it as if he were on a jury and he has to make a decision based on the evidence presented. LIke any case, there will be two sides. One says the guy did it. The other side says the guy didn't do it. The jury has to weigh it out and make a decision. It's of course not a perfect analogy as juries get hung or undecided and such. But the idea is there will be evidence presented for and against. And that's ok.

If anyone would like a copy of the book, send me a PM and I'll get you a copy.

To that end, there are lots of hard and difficult questions as someone examines the situation.

• How could a good and gracious God allow evil?
• How can kids be born with all sorts of awful problems?
• How can Hurricanes be allowed to kill people?

And lots more.

I don't know any Christians who don't wrestle with those. Because they're super difficult questions.
But I also don't think it's a situation where you throw the whole thing out if you can't neatly answer every question.
Ultimately, it's for the person to decide for themselves after weighing it all out. And of course, even choosing not to decide, that's a decision.

Bottom line, wrestling and questions are good and necessary. Not questioning anything is how cults happen.

But I'm also cautiously ok with not knowing the answers to everything there.

 

[Scoresman]

A thought.

I don't think how one feels about God or if they choose to follow Jesus and God is a perfect solvable problem where everything is buttoned up nice and tidy and every single objection on the "punch list" is resolved and checked off.

It's an old book now, but Lee Strobels "Case For Christ" book I think presents a good way to think of it. He looks at it as if he were on a jury and he has to make a decision based on the evidence presented. LIke any case, there will be two sides. One says the guy did it. The other side says the guy didn't do it. The jury has to weigh it out and make a decision.

If anyone would like a copy of the book, send me a PM and I'll get you a copy.

To that end, there are lots of hard and difficult questions as someone examines the situation.

• How could a good and gracious God allow evil?
• How can kids be born with all sorts of awful problems?
• How can Hurricanes be allowed to kill people?

And lots more.

I don't know any Christians who don't wrestle with those. Because they're super difficult questions.
But I also don't think it's a situation where you throw the whole thing out if you can't neatly answer every question.
Ultimately, it's for the person to decide for themselves after weighing it all out. And of course, even choosing not to decide, that's a decision.

Bottom line, wrestling and questions are good and necessary. Not questioning anything is how cults happen.

But I'm also cautiously ok with not knowing the answers to everything there.

A jury is an interesting analogy. A jury's job though isn't technically just to weigh it out and make a decision. Their job is to determine if the prosecution proved their case beyond doubt. In this case, if God or Christ is the "defendant", I feel there's plenty of doubt. So I'm not sure its the greatest analogy.

 

[Joe Bryant]

A thought.

I don't think how one feels about God or if they choose to follow Jesus and God is a perfect solvable problem where everything is buttoned up nice and tidy and every single objection on the "punch list" is resolved and checked off.

It's an old book now, but Lee Strobels "Case For Christ" book I think presents a good way to think of it. He looks at it as if he were on a jury and he has to make a decision based on the evidence presented. LIke any case, there will be two sides. One says the guy did it. The other side says the guy didn't do it. The jury has to weigh it out and make a decision.

If anyone would like a copy of the book, send me a PM and I'll get you a copy.

To that end, there are lots of hard and difficult questions as someone examines the situation.

• How could a good and gracious God allow evil?
• How can kids be born with all sorts of awful problems?
• How can Hurricanes be allowed to kill people?

And lots more.

I don't know any Christians who don't wrestle with those. Because they're super difficult questions.
But I also don't think it's a situation where you throw the whole thing out if you can't neatly answer every question.
Ultimately, it's for the person to decide for themselves after weighing it all out. And of course, even choosing not to decide, that's a decision.

Bottom line, wrestling and questions are good and necessary. Not questioning anything is how cults happen.

But I'm also cautiously ok with not knowing the answers to everything there.

A jury is an interesting analogy. A jury's job though isn't technically just to weigh it out and make a decision. Their job is to determine if the prosecution proved their case beyond doubt. In this case, if God or Christ is the "defendant", I feel there's plenty of doubt. So I'm not sure its the greatest analogy.

Understood. It's not a perfect analogy. Juries get hung or undecided and such. But the idea is there will be evidence presented for and against. And that's ok.

Bottom line, wrestling and questions are good and necessary. Not questioning anything is how cults happen.

But I'm also cautiously ok with not knowing the answers to everything there.

 

[belljr]

So I'll ask one more since I appreciate the answers ... I guess I'm agnostic now.... Not sure I'd say I'm an atheist but my other question was this

We all know about Holy Wars and even Wars today in the name of "religion" or west vs east philosophies etc. I'm not making this political just prepping my question.

SO we have so many different denominations of Christianity and even non denominations. Islam Judaism, etc.

I briefly studied some of that way back but how do say a "general Christian" sort out other religions etc.

Do they question their own God's existence?

Question others?

For arguments sake do we all end up in the "same heaven"?

That has always fascinated me

Thx

 

[dkp993]

What about someone who dies in the middle of asking forgiveness? Does it become a Schrödinger's Cat situation? Would they exist in both heaven and hell?

Good thing is, we don't have to worry and decide. That is on the all-knowing, timeless, perfect God to decide.

Jay, I’ll ask this to you since it wasn’t answered by others a few pages ago. And to be extremely clear, I’m not challenging your beliefs, I just truly want to understand the line of thinking.

My question is…. why is it that Christians (or any faith for that matter) have no issue believing that God is timeless (to use your words) or didn’t require being created yet can’t view the universe as having that same possibility? Thanks.

 

[JAA]

It’s not clear to me what Heaven actually is. How do I know I want to go there?

In all seriousness, can someone describe to me what my day to day will be like?

Jesus directly addresses this topic a bunch of times in the NT. Pretty much every time (I think 100% but I'm not sure), he speaks in parable form and basically tells his disciples that they're not going to get it and it's going to a bit of surprise.

Ok

So how do I know I want to go there? Respectfully, I would be spending eternity there, so it feels like a really big decision.

It's up to you. Nobody's forcing you.

Right.

Im asking for information so I can make an informed decision on eternity once I die.

I'll bite.

Here's what we know from the Bible. It is a paradise akin to the garden of Eden. There will be work to do, but it won't be difficult and frustrating. There won't be sickness, evil or death and we'll get to know and understand God on a level beyond what we have now. Relationships will have eternity to grow and love will be abundant. Not to be crass, but I imagine a euphoric feeling beyond even sex.

Heaven will not want to be missed. Those that do will be in a place where there is "weeping and gnashing of teeth". It is no joke and the differences cannot be understated.

Thank you. I was sincere in my question.

Listening to your explanation, do you believe their can be good without evil? That their can be happiness without sadness?

I believe their cant be light without dark. That the sad times are what make the happy times so important. This is philosophical of course, and someone may quote the Matrix here, but Im not sure we are designed to be singular in our emotions/feelings.

Thank you for the convo

This may be getting a little deep, but I disagree a bit.

Darkness is the absence of light.
Hate/evil is the absence of love/good.
Etc.

The positive does and can exist wholly independent of the opposite.

Understood and thank you. Agree to disagree

 

[Joe Bryant]

SO we have so many different denominations of Christianity and even non denominations. Islam Judaism, etc.

I briefly studied some of that way back but how do say a "general Christian" sort out other religions etc.

Do they question their own God's existence?

Question others?

For arguments sake do we all end up in the "same heaven"?

That has always fascinated me

Thx

That's a great question. And thank you for the sincere way you asked.

I remember having this discussion with my pastor one time. It was something along the lines of "Do people worshiping of the Islam faith end up in Heaven or the same Heaven as Christians?"

His answer was, "We'll see". I thought that was good.

He might have opinions and ideas and the bible does talk about one way to God being through Jesus. But I've always thought it kind of arrogant to assume everyone else is wrong. I'd rather focus on what I think is right.

 

[Scoresman]

So I'll ask one more since I appreciate the answers ... I guess I'm agnostic now.... Not sure I'd say I'm an atheist but my other question was this

We all know about Holy Wars and even Wars today in the name of "religion" or west vs east philosophies etc. I'm not making this political just prepping my question.

SO we have so many different denominations of Christianity and even non denominations. Islam Judaism, etc.

I briefly studied some of that way back but how do say a "general Christian" sort out other religions etc.

Do they question their own God's existence?

Question others?

For arguments sake do we all end up in the "same heaven"?

That has always fascinated me

Thx

Great questions here. Personally, it's one of the primary questions I was asking in my youth when Christianity was pushed on me. I went to Catholic school through 8th grade, but never in any of that time would I say I ever had any faith. I was just going through the motions. As I got older, I wondered why everyone was so sure this view of God was the correct one. I sure as hell was never taught a thing about any other religion. But they definitely tried to instill a certain fear of what would happen if you didn't believe, and especially if you weren't in Church every Sunday putting your check in the basket.

 

[JAA]

It’s not clear to me what Heaven actually is. How do I know I want to go there?

In all seriousness, can someone describe to me what my day to day will be like?

Try it out. Start living in God’s Kingdom now and see if you like it.

I don't understand. Is heaven the same as earth? Are there no differences?

I don't present myself as an expert on this. I'm someone who is trying to learn more and more. One thing I'm trying to get better at is telling the story. So, this probably doesn't directly address your question, but here it goes...

The basic idea is that there is a hope of a new creation. New creation is more about resetting this world to what it was originally intended to be rather than something that exists somewhere else in the clouds. In Judaism, they talk about tikkun olam, repairing the world. God established his kingdom, took his seat on his throne, and put humans in charge in Genesis 1-2. In chapter 3, we hear how humans get in the way of that plan by trying to do things our way instead of his way. In chapter 12, God partners with Abram and promises to bless the nations through him. The story is trying to get back to Eden. The rest of Genesis is God continuing to work through Abram's descendants despite them reliving Genesis 3 and getting in the way. Despite their mistakes, God continues to work out his promise to Abraham. In Exodus, the Israelites are saved out of slavery in Egypt and enter into a covenant with God to carry out that mission and be a kingdom of priests. They are headed to Canaan because that's where God wants his people to be. It's the crossroads of the world at that time, connecting what we call Africa, Asia, and Europe. As God's priests, they are to represent him to the nations so that the world can be blessed and no better place to do that than where the world travels through. We work our way towards Israel being a kingdom in the land. They fulfill their mission at times and fail at other times. As tends to happen, eventually they have declined into chaos. The kingdom splits, they violate the covenant, they mistreat people, they worship other gods, and they are sent into exile in Babylon. Exile ends and they return to Israel with a renewed desire to obey the covenant since they see that as the reason for exile. Rome arrives and plays the role of Egypt and Babylon. Once again God's people are under the boot of an empire. Jesus arrives and calls them back, like the prophets before him, to the covenant. He stresses the need for obedience to God and says it should all be done through the lens of love. In his interpretation, love is what it was always all about and his followers should live that out. Doing this, Jesus proclaims, "The Kingdom of God is here." That's his overarching message. God's Kingdom is here, originally established in Genesis 1. Live in it. Do what the king wants his people to do. They didn't talk so much about "going to Heaven after you die as a disembodied soul", rather they talked about how to live in the Kingdom now on this earth. They talked about this age and the age to come. The age to come wasn't pictured as something that happens when all of this is destroyed and our souls fly off into "Heaven". The age to come was the messianic age. Through Jesus the Messiah's resurrection, the age to come was inaugurated. Post-resurrection, the apostles go around bringing Kingdom, first to Jerusalem then Judea then Samaria then all the world. The Kingdom of God is being brought to the nations. The promise to Abram is being lived out. As it goes beyond Judea, the Gentiles (nations) are brought into the family covenant. They are now part of Abraham's descendants who are tasked with blessing the world and leading us back to Eden.

I'm sure others will quibble (or outright disagree) with some of those details, but the point is it's a story being played out. God's plan will happen and he wants us to join him, as Revelation paints the picture (originally envisioned by Isaiah) of this ultimate victory of God's Kingdom over the evil empires we've created that oppress, bringing this new creation and rescuing this world. Heaven is less about where it is and more about whose it is. "Kingdom of Heaven" is just an idiom for "Kingdom of God". Heaven is living in God's kingdom. As I've read some people say, "eternity starts now".

Thank you for this. God wants us to join them in Heaven. Heaven sounds nice, I'm just not sure I want to be there.

No fishing here, it just sounds a little bit over the top. A little too good to be true. A little too supernatural. I would imagine this is part of the process, but if someone came to me today and pitched me something perfect, with zero downside, Im not sure I would believe them.

Just my

 

[IvanKaramazov]

What about someone who dies in the middle of asking forgiveness? Does it become a Schrödinger's Cat situation? Would they exist in both heaven and hell?

Good thing is, we don't have to worry and decide. That is on the all-knowing, timeless, perfect God to decide.

Jay, I’ll ask this to you since it wasn’t answered by others a few pages ago. And to be extremely clear, I’m not challenging your beliefs, I just truly want to understand the line of thinking.

My question is…. why is it that Christians (or any faith for that matter) have no issue believing that God is timeless (to use your words) or didn’t require being created yet can’t view the universe as having that same possibility? Thanks.

I can easily imagine a universe that has existed forever (that's the most intuitive way to think about it IMO), but I don't think that view is supported by science.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

I can easily imagine a universe that has existed forever (that's the most intuitive way to think about it IMO), but I don't think that view is supported by science.

I've read scientific articles that posit that very idea.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

I can easily imagine a universe that has existed forever (that's the most intuitive way to think about it IMO), but I don't think that view is supported by science.

I've read scientific articles that posit that very idea.

Yeah and to be clear, I'm sort of agnostic on this topic. Like most people, I assume the big bang theory is probably correct, but I don't really know and I don't think it matters from a religious perspective.

 

[dgreen]

It’s not clear to me what Heaven actually is. How do I know I want to go there?

In all seriousness, can someone describe to me what my day to day will be like?

Try it out. Start living in God’s Kingdom now and see if you like it.

I don't understand. Is heaven the same as earth? Are there no differences?

I don't present myself as an expert on this. I'm someone who is trying to learn more and more. One thing I'm trying to get better at is telling the story. So, this probably doesn't directly address your question, but here it goes...

The basic idea is that there is a hope of a new creation. New creation is more about resetting this world to what it was originally intended to be rather than something that exists somewhere else in the clouds. In Judaism, they talk about tikkun olam, repairing the world. God established his kingdom, took his seat on his throne, and put humans in charge in Genesis 1-2. In chapter 3, we hear how humans get in the way of that plan by trying to do things our way instead of his way. In chapter 12, God partners with Abram and promises to bless the nations through him. The story is trying to get back to Eden. The rest of Genesis is God continuing to work through Abram's descendants despite them reliving Genesis 3 and getting in the way. Despite their mistakes, God continues to work out his promise to Abraham. In Exodus, the Israelites are saved out of slavery in Egypt and enter into a covenant with God to carry out that mission and be a kingdom of priests. They are headed to Canaan because that's where God wants his people to be. It's the crossroads of the world at that time, connecting what we call Africa, Asia, and Europe. As God's priests, they are to represent him to the nations so that the world can be blessed and no better place to do that than where the world travels through. We work our way towards Israel being a kingdom in the land. They fulfill their mission at times and fail at other times. As tends to happen, eventually they have declined into chaos. The kingdom splits, they violate the covenant, they mistreat people, they worship other gods, and they are sent into exile in Babylon. Exile ends and they return to Israel with a renewed desire to obey the covenant since they see that as the reason for exile. Rome arrives and plays the role of Egypt and Babylon. Once again God's people are under the boot of an empire. Jesus arrives and calls them back, like the prophets before him, to the covenant. He stresses the need for obedience to God and says it should all be done through the lens of love. In his interpretation, love is what it was always all about and his followers should live that out. Doing this, Jesus proclaims, "The Kingdom of God is here." That's his overarching message. God's Kingdom is here, originally established in Genesis 1. Live in it. Do what the king wants his people to do. They didn't talk so much about "going to Heaven after you die as a disembodied soul", rather they talked about how to live in the Kingdom now on this earth. They talked about this age and the age to come. The age to come wasn't pictured as something that happens when all of this is destroyed and our souls fly off into "Heaven". The age to come was the messianic age. Through Jesus the Messiah's resurrection, the age to come was inaugurated. Post-resurrection, the apostles go around bringing Kingdom, first to Jerusalem then Judea then Samaria then all the world. The Kingdom of God is being brought to the nations. The promise to Abram is being lived out. As it goes beyond Judea, the Gentiles (nations) are brought into the family covenant. They are now part of Abraham's descendants who are tasked with blessing the world and leading us back to Eden.

I'm sure others will quibble (or outright disagree) with some of those details, but the point is it's a story being played out. God's plan will happen and he wants us to join him, as Revelation paints the picture (originally envisioned by Isaiah) of this ultimate victory of God's Kingdom over the evil empires we've created that oppress, bringing this new creation and rescuing this world. Heaven is less about where it is and more about whose it is. "Kingdom of Heaven" is just an idiom for "Kingdom of God". Heaven is living in God's kingdom. As I've read some people say, "eternity starts now".

Thank you for this. God wants us to join them in Heaven. Heaven sounds nice, I'm just not sure I want to be there.

No fishing here, it just sounds a little bit over the top. A little too good to be true. A little too supernatural. I would imagine this is part of the process, but if someone came to me today and pitched me something perfect, with zero downside, Im not sure I would believe them.

Just my

I wouldn't say there's no downside. Citizens of this Kingdom should willingly submit to the will of its King. And that King wants his citizens to not be selfish, love their enemies, go out of their way to take care of others, etc. The rich young ruler struggled with the commitment he was asked to make, to sell all his possessions and give to the poor.

 

[JAA]

It’s not clear to me what Heaven actually is. How do I know I want to go there?

In all seriousness, can someone describe to me what my day to day will be like?

Try it out. Start living in God’s Kingdom now and see if you like it.

I don't understand. Is heaven the same as earth? Are there no differences?

I don't present myself as an expert on this. I'm someone who is trying to learn more and more. One thing I'm trying to get better at is telling the story. So, this probably doesn't directly address your question, but here it goes...

The basic idea is that there is a hope of a new creation. New creation is more about resetting this world to what it was originally intended to be rather than something that exists somewhere else in the clouds. In Judaism, they talk about tikkun olam, repairing the world. God established his kingdom, took his seat on his throne, and put humans in charge in Genesis 1-2. In chapter 3, we hear how humans get in the way of that plan by trying to do things our way instead of his way. In chapter 12, God partners with Abram and promises to bless the nations through him. The story is trying to get back to Eden. The rest of Genesis is God continuing to work through Abram's descendants despite them reliving Genesis 3 and getting in the way. Despite their mistakes, God continues to work out his promise to Abraham. In Exodus, the Israelites are saved out of slavery in Egypt and enter into a covenant with God to carry out that mission and be a kingdom of priests. They are headed to Canaan because that's where God wants his people to be. It's the crossroads of the world at that time, connecting what we call Africa, Asia, and Europe. As God's priests, they are to represent him to the nations so that the world can be blessed and no better place to do that than where the world travels through. We work our way towards Israel being a kingdom in the land. They fulfill their mission at times and fail at other times. As tends to happen, eventually they have declined into chaos. The kingdom splits, they violate the covenant, they mistreat people, they worship other gods, and they are sent into exile in Babylon. Exile ends and they return to Israel with a renewed desire to obey the covenant since they see that as the reason for exile. Rome arrives and plays the role of Egypt and Babylon. Once again God's people are under the boot of an empire. Jesus arrives and calls them back, like the prophets before him, to the covenant. He stresses the need for obedience to God and says it should all be done through the lens of love. In his interpretation, love is what it was always all about and his followers should live that out. Doing this, Jesus proclaims, "The Kingdom of God is here." That's his overarching message. God's Kingdom is here, originally established in Genesis 1. Live in it. Do what the king wants his people to do. They didn't talk so much about "going to Heaven after you die as a disembodied soul", rather they talked about how to live in the Kingdom now on this earth. They talked about this age and the age to come. The age to come wasn't pictured as something that happens when all of this is destroyed and our souls fly off into "Heaven". The age to come was the messianic age. Through Jesus the Messiah's resurrection, the age to come was inaugurated. Post-resurrection, the apostles go around bringing Kingdom, first to Jerusalem then Judea then Samaria then all the world. The Kingdom of God is being brought to the nations. The promise to Abram is being lived out. As it goes beyond Judea, the Gentiles (nations) are brought into the family covenant. They are now part of Abraham's descendants who are tasked with blessing the world and leading us back to Eden.

I'm sure others will quibble (or outright disagree) with some of those details, but the point is it's a story being played out. God's plan will happen and he wants us to join him, as Revelation paints the picture (originally envisioned by Isaiah) of this ultimate victory of God's Kingdom over the evil empires we've created that oppress, bringing this new creation and rescuing this world. Heaven is less about where it is and more about whose it is. "Kingdom of Heaven" is just an idiom for "Kingdom of God". Heaven is living in God's kingdom. As I've read some people say, "eternity starts now".

Thank you for this. God wants us to join them in Heaven. Heaven sounds nice, I'm just not sure I want to be there.

No fishing here, it just sounds a little bit over the top. A little too good to be true. A little too supernatural. I would imagine this is part of the process, but if someone came to me today and pitched me something perfect, with zero downside, Im not sure I would believe them.

Just my

I wouldn't say there's no downside. Citizens of this Kingdom should willingly submit to the will of its King. And that King wants his citizens to not be selfish, love their enemies, go out of their way to take care of others, etc. The rich young ruler struggled with the commitment he was asked to make, to sell all his possessions and give to the poor.

Ok, lets roll with that

Heaven will not be perfect, I will need to act in a certain way (forgive enemies, etc). What happens if I can't do that? Or do not do that good enough? Do I then go to hell (from heaven) if I can't, for lack of a better term, cut it in heaven? Does the same go for when I get to hell, if I behave do I then get to go to heaven?

Im assuming the answer we are converging on is "you just have to have faith". No judgement in my words, but that is too much of a pill for me to swallow when we are talking about eternity.