How To Get To Heaven When You Die. Read The First Post. Then Q&A Discussion. Ask Questions Here! (2 Viewers)

[Leroy Hoard]

It’s not clear to me what Heaven actually is. How do I know I want to go there?

In all seriousness, can someone describe to me what my day to day will be like?

It would be nice to have good wi-fi and at least decent weather.

 

[dgreen]

It’s not clear to me what Heaven actually is. How do I know I want to go there?

In all seriousness, can someone describe to me what my day to day will be like?

Try it out. Start living in God’s Kingdom now and see if you like it.

I don't understand. Is heaven the same as earth? Are there no differences?

I don't present myself as an expert on this. I'm someone who is trying to learn more and more. One thing I'm trying to get better at is telling the story. So, this probably doesn't directly address your question, but here it goes...

The basic idea is that there is a hope of a new creation. New creation is more about resetting this world to what it was originally intended to be rather than something that exists somewhere else in the clouds. In Judaism, they talk about tikkun olam, repairing the world. God established his kingdom, took his seat on his throne, and put humans in charge in Genesis 1-2. In chapter 3, we hear how humans get in the way of that plan by trying to do things our way instead of his way. In chapter 12, God partners with Abram and promises to bless the nations through him. The story is trying to get back to Eden. The rest of Genesis is God continuing to work through Abram's descendants despite them reliving Genesis 3 and getting in the way. Despite their mistakes, God continues to work out his promise to Abraham. In Exodus, the Israelites are saved out of slavery in Egypt and enter into a covenant with God to carry out that mission and be a kingdom of priests. They are headed to Canaan because that's where God wants his people to be. It's the crossroads of the world at that time, connecting what we call Africa, Asia, and Europe. As God's priests, they are to represent him to the nations so that the world can be blessed and no better place to do that than where the world travels through. We work our way towards Israel being a kingdom in the land. They fulfill their mission at times and fail at other times. As tends to happen, eventually they have declined into chaos. The kingdom splits, they violate the covenant, they mistreat people, they worship other gods, and they are sent into exile in Babylon. Exile ends and they return to Israel with a renewed desire to obey the covenant since they see that as the reason for exile. Rome arrives and plays the role of Egypt and Babylon. Once again God's people are under the boot of an empire. Jesus arrives and calls them back, like the prophets before him, to the covenant. He stresses the need for obedience to God and says it should all be done through the lens of love. In his interpretation, love is what it was always all about and his followers should live that out. Doing this, Jesus proclaims, "The Kingdom of God is here." That's his overarching message. God's Kingdom is here, originally established in Genesis 1. Live in it. Do what the king wants his people to do. They didn't talk so much about "going to Heaven after you die as a disembodied soul", rather they talked about how to live in the Kingdom now on this earth. They talked about this age and the age to come. The age to come wasn't pictured as something that happens when all of this is destroyed and our souls fly off into "Heaven". The age to come was the messianic age. Through Jesus the Messiah's resurrection, the age to come was inaugurated. Post-resurrection, the apostles go around bringing Kingdom, first to Jerusalem then Judea then Samaria then all the world. The Kingdom of God is being brought to the nations. The promise to Abram is being lived out. As it goes beyond Judea, the Gentiles (nations) are brought into the family covenant. They are now part of Abraham's descendants who are tasked with blessing the world and leading us back to Eden.

I'm sure others will quibble (or outright disagree) with some of those details, but the point is it's a story being played out. God's plan will happen and he wants us to join him, as Revelation paints the picture (originally envisioned by Isaiah) of this ultimate victory of God's Kingdom over the evil empires we've created that oppress, bringing this new creation and rescuing this world. Heaven is less about where it is and more about whose it is. "Kingdom of Heaven" is just an idiom for "Kingdom of God". Heaven is living in God's kingdom. As I've read some people say, "eternity starts now".

Thank you for this. God wants us to join them in Heaven. Heaven sounds nice, I'm just not sure I want to be there.

No fishing here, it just sounds a little bit over the top. A little too good to be true. A little too supernatural. I would imagine this is part of the process, but if someone came to me today and pitched me something perfect, with zero downside, Im not sure I would believe them.

Just my

I wouldn't say there's no downside. Citizens of this Kingdom should willingly submit to the will of its King. And that King wants his citizens to not be selfish, love their enemies, go out of their way to take care of others, etc. The rich young ruler struggled with the commitment he was asked to make, to sell all his possessions and give to the poor.

Ok, lets roll with that

Heaven will not be perfect, I will need to act in a certain way (forgive enemies, etc). What happens if I can't do that? Or do not do that good enough? Do I then go to hell (from heaven) if I can't, for lack of a better term, cut it in heaven? Does the same go for when I get to hell, if I behave do I then get to go to heaven?

Im assuming the answer we are converging on is "you just have to have faith". No judgement in my words, but that is too much of a pill for me to swallow when we are talking about eternity.

The way some talk about is when you are living according to the King's will, then you are in Heaven (or in the presence of the King). When you stray from that will and serve your own needs and don't live according to the King's will, then you are in Hell (outside the presence of the King, in a pit of fire where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth outside the walls of the Kingdom). There is a present reality of Heaven and Hell based on where we choose to live. Sure, I guess you can bounce back and forth between those states of living.

But I assume you are more talking about the after life? Honestly, I have no idea what I believe about the after life. Right now, my position is that the Bible does speak of a final judgment and there will be a physical bodily resurrection where some will live in a permanent new heaven and new earth and others won't. I don't particularly believe that this Hell will be full of people. I think it's for evil. And, no, I'm not going to get into who I think qualifies because I have no idea. I think God is more interested in rescuing creation (including humans) than he is in punishing. That's my hope anyway.

 

[JAA]

It’s not clear to me what Heaven actually is. How do I know I want to go there?

In all seriousness, can someone describe to me what my day to day will be like?

Try it out. Start living in God’s Kingdom now and see if you like it.

I don't understand. Is heaven the same as earth? Are there no differences?

I don't present myself as an expert on this. I'm someone who is trying to learn more and more. One thing I'm trying to get better at is telling the story. So, this probably doesn't directly address your question, but here it goes...

The basic idea is that there is a hope of a new creation. New creation is more about resetting this world to what it was originally intended to be rather than something that exists somewhere else in the clouds. In Judaism, they talk about tikkun olam, repairing the world. God established his kingdom, took his seat on his throne, and put humans in charge in Genesis 1-2. In chapter 3, we hear how humans get in the way of that plan by trying to do things our way instead of his way. In chapter 12, God partners with Abram and promises to bless the nations through him. The story is trying to get back to Eden. The rest of Genesis is God continuing to work through Abram's descendants despite them reliving Genesis 3 and getting in the way. Despite their mistakes, God continues to work out his promise to Abraham. In Exodus, the Israelites are saved out of slavery in Egypt and enter into a covenant with God to carry out that mission and be a kingdom of priests. They are headed to Canaan because that's where God wants his people to be. It's the crossroads of the world at that time, connecting what we call Africa, Asia, and Europe. As God's priests, they are to represent him to the nations so that the world can be blessed and no better place to do that than where the world travels through. We work our way towards Israel being a kingdom in the land. They fulfill their mission at times and fail at other times. As tends to happen, eventually they have declined into chaos. The kingdom splits, they violate the covenant, they mistreat people, they worship other gods, and they are sent into exile in Babylon. Exile ends and they return to Israel with a renewed desire to obey the covenant since they see that as the reason for exile. Rome arrives and plays the role of Egypt and Babylon. Once again God's people are under the boot of an empire. Jesus arrives and calls them back, like the prophets before him, to the covenant. He stresses the need for obedience to God and says it should all be done through the lens of love. In his interpretation, love is what it was always all about and his followers should live that out. Doing this, Jesus proclaims, "The Kingdom of God is here." That's his overarching message. God's Kingdom is here, originally established in Genesis 1. Live in it. Do what the king wants his people to do. They didn't talk so much about "going to Heaven after you die as a disembodied soul", rather they talked about how to live in the Kingdom now on this earth. They talked about this age and the age to come. The age to come wasn't pictured as something that happens when all of this is destroyed and our souls fly off into "Heaven". The age to come was the messianic age. Through Jesus the Messiah's resurrection, the age to come was inaugurated. Post-resurrection, the apostles go around bringing Kingdom, first to Jerusalem then Judea then Samaria then all the world. The Kingdom of God is being brought to the nations. The promise to Abram is being lived out. As it goes beyond Judea, the Gentiles (nations) are brought into the family covenant. They are now part of Abraham's descendants who are tasked with blessing the world and leading us back to Eden.

I'm sure others will quibble (or outright disagree) with some of those details, but the point is it's a story being played out. God's plan will happen and he wants us to join him, as Revelation paints the picture (originally envisioned by Isaiah) of this ultimate victory of God's Kingdom over the evil empires we've created that oppress, bringing this new creation and rescuing this world. Heaven is less about where it is and more about whose it is. "Kingdom of Heaven" is just an idiom for "Kingdom of God". Heaven is living in God's kingdom. As I've read some people say, "eternity starts now".

Thank you for this. God wants us to join them in Heaven. Heaven sounds nice, I'm just not sure I want to be there.

No fishing here, it just sounds a little bit over the top. A little too good to be true. A little too supernatural. I would imagine this is part of the process, but if someone came to me today and pitched me something perfect, with zero downside, Im not sure I would believe them.

Just my

I wouldn't say there's no downside. Citizens of this Kingdom should willingly submit to the will of its King. And that King wants his citizens to not be selfish, love their enemies, go out of their way to take care of others, etc. The rich young ruler struggled with the commitment he was asked to make, to sell all his possessions and give to the poor.

Ok, lets roll with that

Heaven will not be perfect, I will need to act in a certain way (forgive enemies, etc). What happens if I can't do that? Or do not do that good enough? Do I then go to hell (from heaven) if I can't, for lack of a better term, cut it in heaven? Does the same go for when I get to hell, if I behave do I then get to go to heaven?

Im assuming the answer we are converging on is "you just have to have faith". No judgement in my words, but that is too much of a pill for me to swallow when we are talking about eternity.

The way some talk about is when you are living according to the King's will, then you are in Heaven (or in the presence of the King). When you stray from that will and serve your own needs and don't live according to the King's will, then you are in Hell (outside the presence of the King, in a pit of fire where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth outside the walls of the Kingdom). There is a present reality of Heaven and Hell based on where we choose to live. Sure, I guess you can bounce back and forth between those states of living.

But I assume you are more talking about the after life? Honestly, I have no idea what I believe about the after life. Right now, my position is that the Bible does speak of a final judgment and there will be a physical bodily resurrection where some will live in a permanent new heaven and new earth and others won't. I don't particularly believe that this Hell will be full of people. I think it's for evil. And, no, I'm not going to get into who I think qualifies because I have no idea. I think God is more interested in rescuing creation (including humans) than he is in punishing. That's my hope anyway.

Thank you for the responses

Yes, I am talking about the afterlife.

 

[Zow]

I can easily imagine a universe that has existed forever (that's the most intuitive way to think about it IMO), but I don't think that view is supported by science.

I've read scientific articles that posit that very idea.

Yeah and to be clear, I'm sort of agnostic on this topic. Like most people, I assume the big bang theory is probably correct, but I don't really know and I don't think it matters from a religious perspective.

Yeah I find the religious concept of the "prime mover theory" to be logistically consistent with the Big Bang.

In other words, I can find logic in the notion that there could be a God in the strict sense that generally a creator is greater than the creation and something had to get this whole thing started. I just more so struggle to find logical consistency with the Christian concept of G/god and his motivations as expressed in the Bible and other writings found at Qumran.

 

[dkp993]

I can easily imagine a universe that has existed forever (that's the most intuitive way to think about it IMO), but I don't think that view is supported by science.

I've read scientific articles that posit that very idea.

Yeah and to be clear, I'm sort of agnostic on this topic. Like most people, I assume the big bang theory is probably correct, but I don't really know and I don't think it matters from a religious perspective.

Yeah I find the religious concept of the "prime mover theory" to be logistically consistent with the Big Bang.

In other words, I can find logic in the notion that there could be a God in the strict sense that generally a creator is greater than the creation and something had to get this whole thing started. I just more so struggle to find logical consistency with the Christian concept of G/god and his motivations as expressed in the Bible and other writings found at Qumran.

Re: the bolded.

Sure, I can too. But I can’t find the logic in the god doesn’t need a creator, especially when countered with then why does the universe need one?

 

[Zow]

I can easily imagine a universe that has existed forever (that's the most intuitive way to think about it IMO), but I don't think that view is supported by science.

I've read scientific articles that posit that very idea.

Yeah and to be clear, I'm sort of agnostic on this topic. Like most people, I assume the big bang theory is probably correct, but I don't really know and I don't think it matters from a religious perspective.

Yeah I find the religious concept of the "prime mover theory" to be logistically consistent with the Big Bang.

In other words, I can find logic in the notion that there could be a God in the strict sense that generally a creator is greater than the creation and something had to get this whole thing started. I just more so struggle to find logical consistency with the Christian concept of G/god and his motivations as expressed in the Bible and other writings found at Qumran.

Re: the bolded.

Sure, I can too. But I can’t find the logic in the god doesn’t need a creator, especially when countered with then why does the universe need one?

The logic is more so that, logically, something had to be first - i.e. the "prime mover." That could be, by definition, "God." For example, there had to be a first domino, a chicken to lay the egg, something to create the Big Bang, etc.

 

[dkp993]

I can easily imagine a universe that has existed forever (that's the most intuitive way to think about it IMO), but I don't think that view is supported by science.

I've read scientific articles that posit that very idea.

Yeah and to be clear, I'm sort of agnostic on this topic. Like most people, I assume the big bang theory is probably correct, but I don't really know and I don't think it matters from a religious perspective.

Yeah I find the religious concept of the "prime mover theory" to be logistically consistent with the Big Bang.

In other words, I can find logic in the notion that there could be a God in the strict sense that generally a creator is greater than the creation and something had to get this whole thing started. I just more so struggle to find logical consistency with the Christian concept of G/god and his motivations as expressed in the Bible and other writings found at Qumran.

Re: the bolded.

Sure, I can too. But I can’t find the logic in the god doesn’t need a creator, especially when countered with then why does the universe need one?

The logic is more so that, logically, something had to be first - i.e. the "prime mover." That could be, by definition, "God." For example, there had to be a first domino, a chicken to lay the egg, something to create the Big Bang, etc.

Sure, again I get that theory. But in that vain the Big Bang could be the “prime mover” too. But what I’m trying to get at is often the argument from the religious side is that the universe couldn’t simply blink into existence from nothing, yet they are fully willing to accept the fact that God has always existed. It’s arguing both sides of the equation in my opinion and it doesn’t make sense.

 

[Paddington]

Church tomorrow. Make sure you find a good Bible believing Church in attend.

 

[Paddington]

What Church did you attend today?

 

[Paddington]

"The phrase "It is written" proves that Jesus believed that the Bible is the Word of God.





Even the devil knows that the Bible is the Word of God, which is why he quoted it to Jesus when trying to trip Him up:

Luke 4:10 (KJV)

for it is written, He shall give his angels charge over thee, to keep thee

Jesus quoted the bible as authoritative from God, hence the phrase, "It is written"

Matthew 4:7 (KJV)

Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.

Luke 4:4 (KJV)

And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.

Matthew 4:10 (KJV)

Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

Mark 14:27 (KJV)

And Jesus saith unto them, All ye shall be offended because of me this night: for it is written, I will smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered.

Luke 19:46 (KJV)

saying unto them, It is written, My house is the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves.

Luke 7:27 (KJV)

This is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.

 

[dkp993]

What Church did you attend today?

The church of NFL. Held in my living room. Was fantastic, thanks for asking.

 

[Zow]

What Church did you attend today?

The church of game and sport.

Presidents Cup
MLB coming down to the wire
A really fun NFL slate
Played catch and a few golf holes with my son
Played some intense games of Go Fish with my youngest who cheats better than Belichik

Never once felt like I was heading towards eternal damnation. It was a pretty glorious Sunday.

 

[Scoresman]

What Church did you attend today?

Yesterday? Is Onanism it's own religion?

 

[Zow]

I can easily imagine a universe that has existed forever (that's the most intuitive way to think about it IMO), but I don't think that view is supported by science.

I've read scientific articles that posit that very idea.

Yeah and to be clear, I'm sort of agnostic on this topic. Like most people, I assume the big bang theory is probably correct, but I don't really know and I don't think it matters from a religious perspective.

Yeah I find the religious concept of the "prime mover theory" to be logistically consistent with the Big Bang.

In other words, I can find logic in the notion that there could be a God in the strict sense that generally a creator is greater than the creation and something had to get this whole thing started. I just more so struggle to find logical consistency with the Christian concept of G/god and his motivations as expressed in the Bible and other writings found at Qumran.

Re: the bolded.

Sure, I can too. But I can’t find the logic in the god doesn’t need a creator, especially when countered with then why does the universe need one?

The logic is more so that, logically, something had to be first - i.e. the "prime mover." That could be, by definition, "God." For example, there had to be a first domino, a chicken to lay the egg, something to create the Big Bang, etc.

Sure, again I get that theory. But in that vain the Big Bang could be the “prime mover” too. But what I’m trying to get at is often the argument from the religious side is that the universe couldn’t simply blink into existence from nothing, yet they are fully willing to accept the fact that God has always existed. It’s arguing both sides of the equation in my opinion and it doesn’t make sense.

Going back to this, to clarify the theory the idea is that it is okay to label that "prime mover" (whether it be the Big Bang, whatever it was that created the pressurized mass that exploded, or whatever started this universe) as "G/god." In other words, it just makes sense that something had to come first and that first "thing" can generically be called "God."

To further clarify, the prime mover theory (at least as I postulate it) does not require that this prime mover/God have intended us to exist nor does it imply that the prime mover is omniscient and actively involved in our existence. In other words, God as prime mover could be entirely different than the Christian/Muslim/LDS "God" as generally defined today where H/he is a "he," has emotions like jealousy, also created a heaven and a hell, etc.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

The more we learn about the age, size, and general "geography" of the universe the more strange our very existence seems.

The heretofore fact that we're alone leads me to the present options that were either a) a very strange anomaly - like a random mathematical remainder, or b) whatever God is, that entity put us in a very strange, non-descript part of the universe for an equally strange/unknown reason.

We're either a strange accident or intentionally placed (albeit in an apparent random occasion). I don't know which is more likely true.

 

[dgreen]

The more we learn about the age, size, and general "geography" of the universe the more strange our very existence seems.

The heretofore fact that we're alone leads me to the present options that were either a) a very strange anomaly - like a random mathematical remainder, or b) whatever God is, that entity put us in a very strange, non-descript part of the universe for an equally strange/unknown reason.

We're either a strange accident or intentionally placed (albeit in an apparent random occasion). I don't know which is more likely true.

What makes our spot in the universe strange, non-descript, and apparently random?

 

[Scoresman]

The more we learn about the age, size, and general "geography" of the universe the more strange our very existence seems.

The heretofore fact that we're alone leads me to the present options that were either a) a very strange anomaly - like a random mathematical remainder, or b) whatever God is, that entity put us in a very strange, non-descript part of the universe for an equally strange/unknown reason.

We're either a strange accident or intentionally placed (albeit in an apparent random occasion). I don't know which is more likely true.

What makes our spot in the universe strange, non-descript, and apparently random?

Fermi Paradox. We're the only ones that we know of. If there were other civilizations older than us in our galactic neighborhood, they'd have left a detectable mark for us to find. The other side of that is that we are possibly the first civilization to advance. Or we are just alone.

My personal belief is that there are other civilizations out there, but not many and most likely so spread apart, we'd never know.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

The more we learn about the age, size, and general "geography" of the universe the more strange our very existence seems.

The heretofore fact that we're alone leads me to the present options that were either a) a very strange anomaly - like a random mathematical remainder, or b) whatever God is, that entity put us in a very strange, non-descript part of the universe for an equally strange/unknown reason.

We're either a strange accident or intentionally placed (albeit in an apparent random occasion). I don't know which is more likely true.

What makes our spot in the universe strange, non-descript, and apparently random?

It's probably not worth parsing the specific adjectives, I suppose. You could just add easily say that we are exactly where we're supposed to be.

But in a universe of approximately 1 trillion galaxies we're orbiting one of approximately 100 billion stars in one of them in a location that seems to beg the question "Why there?" At least, it does for me.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

The more we learn about the age, size, and general "geography" of the universe the more strange our very existence seems.

The heretofore fact that we're alone leads me to the present options that were either a) a very strange anomaly - like a random mathematical remainder, or b) whatever God is, that entity put us in a very strange, non-descript part of the universe for an equally strange/unknown reason.

We're either a strange accident or intentionally placed (albeit in an apparent random occasion). I don't know which is more likely true.

What makes our spot in the universe strange, non-descript, and apparently random?

Fermi Paradox. We're the only ones that we know of. If there were other civilizations older than us in our galactic neighborhood, they'd have left a detectable mark for us to find. The other side of that is that we are possibly the first civilization to advance. Or we are just alone.

My personal belief is that there are other civilizations out there, but not many and most likely so spread apart, we'd never know.

Even more depressing (only mildly so) is with universal expansion, we're getting farther apart from each other at every passing moment.

Antarians...wait!

 

[dgreen]

The more we learn about the age, size, and general "geography" of the universe the more strange our very existence seems.

The heretofore fact that we're alone leads me to the present options that were either a) a very strange anomaly - like a random mathematical remainder, or b) whatever God is, that entity put us in a very strange, non-descript part of the universe for an equally strange/unknown reason.

We're either a strange accident or intentionally placed (albeit in an apparent random occasion). I don't know which is more likely true.

What makes our spot in the universe strange, non-descript, and apparently random?

It's probably not worth parsing the specific adjectives, I suppose. You could just add easily say that we are exactly where we're supposed to be.

But in a universe of approximately 1 trillion galaxies we're orbiting one of approximately 100 billion stars in one of them in a location that seems to beg the question "Why there?" At least, it does for me.

Got it. So you're not saying that we are physically located in a weird spot in the universe. For example, scientists haven't looked at our universe and said, "Earth is in a strange location because of X, Y, and Z." But, on the flip side, there's also no obvious reason why we'd be where we are. Scientists also aren't saying, "It makes sense for us to be in this spot of the universe because of A, B, and C." The strangeness is more about a lack of clear reasoning.

 

[zoonation]

I can easily imagine a universe that has existed forever (that's the most intuitive way to think about it IMO), but I don't think that view is supported by science.

I've read scientific articles that posit that very idea.

Yeah and to be clear, I'm sort of agnostic on this topic. Like most people, I assume the big bang theory is probably correct, but I don't really know and I don't think it matters from a religious perspective.

Yeah I find the religious concept of the "prime mover theory" to be logistically consistent with the Big Bang.

In other words, I can find logic in the notion that there could be a God in the strict sense that generally a creator is greater than the creation and something had to get this whole thing started. I just more so struggle to find logical consistency with the Christian concept of G/god and his motivations as expressed in the Bible and other writings found at Qumran.

So you are open to deism but skeptical of theism.

I say I am agnostic when it comes to deism but atheist when it comes to theism.

 

[zoonation]

The more we learn about the age, size, and general "geography" of the universe the more strange our very existence seems.

The heretofore fact that we're alone leads me to the present options that were either a) a very strange anomaly - like a random mathematical remainder, or b) whatever God is, that entity put us in a very strange, non-descript part of the universe for an equally strange/unknown reason.

We're either a strange accident or intentionally placed (albeit in an apparent random occasion). I don't know which is more likely true.

We wouldn't be here at all but for a massive asteroid hitting the gulf of Mexico ~65 million years ago. Dinosaurs had dominion over the earth for ~165 million years before that extinction event. IMO we are most certainly a happy accident, and one that won't come remotely close to surviving a fraction as long as the dinos did.

99.9% of all living things on the this planet have lived, suffered in horrific ways, died and gone extinct. Over the course of billions of years. We have been around for ~200K years. A blink of an eye.

If this is all going according to some grand design, can't say that I am at all impressed.

 

[Scoresman]

The more we learn about the age, size, and general "geography" of the universe the more strange our very existence seems.

The heretofore fact that we're alone leads me to the present options that were either a) a very strange anomaly - like a random mathematical remainder, or b) whatever God is, that entity put us in a very strange, non-descript part of the universe for an equally strange/unknown reason.

We're either a strange accident or intentionally placed (albeit in an apparent random occasion). I don't know which is more likely true.

We wouldn't be here at all but for a massive asteroid hitting the gulf of Mexico ~65 million years ago. Dinosaurs had dominion over the earth for ~165 million years before that extinction event. IMO we are most certainly a happy accident, and one that won't come remotely close to surviving a fraction as long as the dinos did.

99.9% of all living things on the this planet have lived, suffered in horrific ways, died and gone extinct. Over the course of billions of years. We have been around for ~200K years. A blink of an eye.

If this is all going according to some grand design, can't say that I am at all impressed.

Yeah the timetable for life is just one of the things that makes me question the existence of a higher power.

I picture gods who are a bunch of omnipotent scientists and earth is their Petri dish. First they create and study single cell organisms for 3 billion years. Then one day they decide hey! Let’s make them into complex, multi-cellular animals! Then after a while it became hey! Let’s make them all giant lizards! Then they got bored of dinosaurs so they summoned a meteor to wipe everything clean and their next grand idea was self aware, intelligent primates.

I think once they get bored of us, intelligent raccoons are next.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

The more we learn about the age, size, and general "geography" of the universe the more strange our very existence seems.

The heretofore fact that we're alone leads me to the present options that were either a) a very strange anomaly - like a random mathematical remainder, or b) whatever God is, that entity put us in a very strange, non-descript part of the universe for an equally strange/unknown reason.

We're either a strange accident or intentionally placed (albeit in an apparent random occasion). I don't know which is more likely true.

I sometimes think about a similar issue. It's not just the universe that's strange. The fundamental nature of reality is extremely weird and unintuitive. Almost nobody actually understands relativity or quantum mechanics. Humans can't really think in terms of space-time. Given that we know that nature is extremely strange, I find it kind of reassuring that Jesus never just comes out and says what the afterlife is like, if such a thing even exists. He just says over and over again that we wouldn't understand it if he told us, and it's going to be a surprise.

Don't take that the wrong way -- I'm not trying to say that the weirdness of relativity proves that the Christian God exists. That would be silly. But I do like the way that the weirdness of nature of the weirdness of the NT sort of mesh together. It's aesthetically appealing, but it's also a good reminder to just relax about the angels-dancing-on-a-head-of-a-pin stuff.

 

[BlackCrowes]

What Church did you attend today?

Buffalo Trace

 

[Paddington]

What Church did you attend today?

Buffalo Trace

That's sad . You can't take the time to go worship the Lord before you do that?

 

[Paddington]

What Church did you attend today?

The church of NFL. Held in my living room. Was fantastic, thanks for asking.

That's sad. Football is no replacement for God and His Church.

 

[Paddington]

What Church did you attend today?

The church of game and sport.

Presidents Cup
MLB coming down to the wire
A really fun NFL slate
Played catch and a few golf holes with my son
Played some intense games of Go Fish with my youngest who cheats better than Belichik

Never once felt like I was heading towards eternal damnation. It was a pretty glorious Sunday.

I went to Church AND I was able to watch those things. Football is no replacement for God and His Church.

 

[Paddington]

What Church did you attend today?

Yesterday? Is Onanism it's own religion?

We are talking about worshipping God here, not perversion.

 

[northern exposure]

What Church did you attend today?

Yesterday? Is Onanism it's own religion?

We are talking about worshipping God here, not perversion.

"Judge not, that ye be not judged" applies, no?

 

[dkp993]

What Church did you attend today?

The church of NFL. Held in my living room. Was fantastic, thanks for asking.

That's sad. Football is no replacement for God and His Church.

That, my friend, is all a matter of perspective.

 

[zoonation]

The more we learn about the age, size, and general "geography" of the universe the more strange our very existence seems.

The heretofore fact that we're alone leads me to the present options that were either a) a very strange anomaly - like a random mathematical remainder, or b) whatever God is, that entity put us in a very strange, non-descript part of the universe for an equally strange/unknown reason.

We're either a strange accident or intentionally placed (albeit in an apparent random occasion). I don't know which is more likely true.

We wouldn't be here at all but for a massive asteroid hitting the gulf of Mexico ~65 million years ago. Dinosaurs had dominion over the earth for ~165 million years before that extinction event. IMO we are most certainly a happy accident, and one that won't come remotely close to surviving a fraction as long as the dinos did.

99.9% of all living things on the this planet have lived, suffered in horrific ways, died and gone extinct. Over the course of billions of years. We have been around for ~200K years. A blink of an eye.

If this is all going according to some grand design, can't say that I am at all impressed.

Yeah the timetable for life is just one of the things that makes me question the existence of a higher power.

I picture gods who are a bunch of omnipotent scientists and earth is their Petri dish. First they create and study single cell organisms for 3 billion years. Then one day they decide hey! Let’s make them into complex, multi-cellular animals! Then after a while it became hey! Let’s make them all giant lizards! Then they got bored of dinosaurs so they summoned a meteor to wipe everything clean and their next grand idea was self aware, intelligent primates.

I think once they get bored of us, intelligent raccoons are next.

I think the reality is much simpler.

 

[dkp993]

The more we learn about the age, size, and general "geography" of the universe the more strange our very existence seems.

The heretofore fact that we're alone leads me to the present options that were either a) a very strange anomaly - like a random mathematical remainder, or b) whatever God is, that entity put us in a very strange, non-descript part of the universe for an equally strange/unknown reason.

We're either a strange accident or intentionally placed (albeit in an apparent random occasion). I don't know which is more likely true.

We wouldn't be here at all but for a massive asteroid hitting the gulf of Mexico ~65 million years ago. Dinosaurs had dominion over the earth for ~165 million years before that extinction event. IMO we are most certainly a happy accident, and one that won't come remotely close to surviving a fraction as long as the dinos did.

99.9% of all living things on the this planet have lived, suffered in horrific ways, died and gone extinct. Over the course of billions of years. We have been around for ~200K years. A blink of an eye.

If this is all going according to some grand design, can't say that I am at all impressed.

Yeah the timetable for life is just one of the things that makes me question the existence of a higher power.

I picture gods who are a bunch of omnipotent scientists and earth is their Petri dish. First they create and study single cell organisms for 3 billion years. Then one day they decide hey! Let’s make them into complex, multi-cellular animals! Then after a while it became hey! Let’s make them all giant lizards! Then they got bored of dinosaurs so they summoned a meteor to wipe everything clean and their next grand idea was self aware, intelligent primates.

I think once they get bored of us, intelligent raccoons are next.

Aka the simulation theory. We’re all just a simulation in some advanced kids computer game.

 

[Paddington]

Please take the time to read this first post if you haven't yet thank you

 

[pacman_fl]

I ain't reading all that
I'm happy for you though
Or sorry for what happened

PS - can someone cliff notes this: is it schtick? Or, is someone preaching up in here (NTTAWWT, but I'd rather have a political forum than wade through that).

 

[need2know]

instead of worrying about how to get to heaven maybe spend some more time in the now and just treat people well and live well. makes things a whole lot easier. also maybe dont worry so much what other people are doing. save yourself a whole lot of time.

 

[Paddington]

Available if anyone has any questions...

 

[Paddington]

instead of worrying about how to get to heaven maybe spend some more time in the now and just treat people well and live well. makes things a whole lot easier. also maybe dont worry so much what other people are doing. save yourself a whole lot of t

Because you can't be good and do good deeds to get to heaven. You have to place your faith in Jesus Christ and what he did on the cross to pay for your sins. That's why you need to read this first post please

 

[Scoresman]

Because you can't be good and do good deeds to get to heaven. You have to place your faith in Jesus Christ and what he did on the cross to pay for your sins. That's why you need to read this first post please

So going by this definition... Let's say I have found the love of my life, my soul mate whom I spend every waking moment with until the day I die. The only real difference between us is that they have faith in Jesus Christ, while I do not. What kind of heaven is that for the believer if their soul mate is not also permitted in? How can it be paradise for them if the love of their entire life is doomed to a fate in hell?

Yes, I'm aware this is real close to the plot of a Robin Williams movie.

 

[Zow]

Available if anyone has any questions...

You've been asked several and didn't answer them. We may as watch Youtube videos from the guy who used modern technology to build that ark nobody visits in significant numbers.

 

[fatness]

But I do like the way that the weirdness of nature of the weirdness of the NT sort of mesh together. It's aesthetically appealing, but it's also a good reminder to just relax about the angels-dancing-on-a-head-of-a-pin stuff.

Often-ignored questions during the angels-dancing-on-a-head-of-a-pin arguments:
What were the angels wearing?
What music was playing?

 

[Terminalxylem]

Because you can't be good and do good deeds to get to heaven. You have to place your faith in Jesus Christ and what he did on the cross to pay for your sins. That's why you need to read this first post please

So going by this definition... Let's say I have found the love of my life, my soul mate whom I spend every waking moment with until the day I die. The only real difference between us is that they have faith in Jesus Christ, while I do not. What kind of heaven is that for the believer if their soul mate is not also permitted in? How can it be paradise for them if the love of their entire life is doomed to a fate in hell?

Yes, I'm aware this is real close to the plot of a Robin Williams movie.

I’m in a similar situation. But to be fair, no human, or relationship between humans is so perfect IMO.

The simple answer is, heaven is better than whatever your soul mate has to offer. And you can’t comprehend it before you get there.

That said, what’s the down side to sharing your partner’s conviction? If you really have a soulmate with whom you are inseparable, it kinda ups the ante on Pascal’s wager.

 

[Paddington]

Because you can't be good and do good deeds to get to heaven. You have to place your faith in Jesus Christ and what he did on the cross to pay for your sins. That's why you need to read this first post please

So going by this definition... Let's say I have found the love of my life, my soul mate whom I spend every waking moment with until the day I die. The only real difference between us is that they have faith in Jesus Christ, while I do not. What kind of heaven is that for the believer if their soul mate is not also permitted in? How can it be paradise for them if the love of their entire life is doomed to a fate in hell?

Yes, I'm aware this is real close to the plot of a Robin Williams movie.

God sets the standards, I do not. God wants people to believe and trust in Him. When someone doesn't trust God, they won't obey God or love Him. When someone doesn't believe God, they won't love or obey Him. The worst sin you can commit is unbelief, lack of faith in God. You must trust in the Lord. If you aren't serving the Lord, you are serving satan, whether you understand that or not.

 

[AAABatteries]

God wants people to believe and trust in Him.

He’s a doing a fairly poor job then. There’s millions of people across the world now and in human history that had no chance of being saved. If he wants all people to believe then I would suggest picking a different method.

 

[TennesseeJed]

God wants people to believe and trust in Him.

He’s a doing a fairly poor job then. There’s millions of people across the world now and in human history that had no chance of being saved. If he wants all people to believe then I would suggest picking a different method.

Probably should consider getting verified on Twitter.

 

[dkp993]

God wants people to believe and trust in Him.

He’s a doing a fairly poor job then. There’s millions of people across the world now and in human history that had no chance of being saved. If he wants all people to believe then I would suggest picking a different method.

Probably should consider getting verified on Twitter.

He is. Follow him on there. Super funny, was gone for a while but just came back. Though I doubt Paddington would approve

 

[Scoresman]

Because you can't be good and do good deeds to get to heaven. You have to place your faith in Jesus Christ and what he did on the cross to pay for your sins. That's why you need to read this first post please

So going by this definition... Let's say I have found the love of my life, my soul mate whom I spend every waking moment with until the day I die. The only real difference between us is that they have faith in Jesus Christ, while I do not. What kind of heaven is that for the believer if their soul mate is not also permitted in? How can it be paradise for them if the love of their entire life is doomed to a fate in hell?

Yes, I'm aware this is real close to the plot of a Robin Williams movie.

God sets the standards, I do not. God wants people to believe and trust in Him. When someone doesn't trust God, they won't obey God or love Him. When someone doesn't believe God, they won't love or obey Him. The worst sin you can commit is unbelief, lack of faith in God. You must trust in the Lord. If you aren't serving the Lord, you are serving satan, whether you understand that or not.

You didn’t really answer the question. And are you saying that as a non-believer I’m committing a worse sin than say rape or murder?

 

[Terminalxylem]

Because you can't be good and do good deeds to get to heaven. You have to place your faith in Jesus Christ and what he did on the cross to pay for your sins. That's why you need to read this first post please

So going by this definition... Let's say I have found the love of my life, my soul mate whom I spend every waking moment with until the day I die. The only real difference between us is that they have faith in Jesus Christ, while I do not. What kind of heaven is that for the believer if their soul mate is not also permitted in? How can it be paradise for them if the love of their entire life is doomed to a fate in hell?

Yes, I'm aware this is real close to the plot of a Robin Williams movie.

God sets the standards, I do not. God wants people to believe and trust in Him. When someone doesn't trust God, they won't obey God or love Him. When someone doesn't believe God, they won't love or obey Him. The worst sin you can commit is unbelief, lack of faith in God. You must trust in the Lord. If you aren't serving the Lord, you are serving satan, whether you understand that or not.

You didn’t really answer the question. And are you saying that as a non-believer I’m committing a worse sin than say rape or murder?

I don't think Christianity's god ranks sins, but there is only one he won't forgive: disbelief/rejecting Jesus as savior.

 

[Terminalxylem]

God wants people to believe and trust in Him.

He’s a doing a fairly poor job then. There’s millions of people across the world now and in human history that had no chance of being saved. If he wants all people to believe then I would suggest picking a different method.

Pretty sure it's billions, the vast majority of people who've ever lived.

But our feeble minds cannot comprehend the role that injustice serves in the "big" picture.

 

[BLOCKED_PUNT]

And are you saying that as a non-believer I’m committing a worse sin than say rape or murder?

I think the logic here is supposed to be that if you believe in God/Jesus you aren't going to do those things.