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How will CV affect the NFL? (2 Viewers)

Until it didn't and someone died or was irreparably harmed.
According to the NFL doc I heard interviewed BMI is a huge risk when it comes to COVID.  60% of players in the Super Bowl last year had a BMI over 28 which is considered risky (I mean, many of those are 8% body fat but still).  So even though I generally roll my eyes at the fear porn with this virus, I agree there is too much unknown and too many at risk even if they are young athletes to mess around too much with this.  I'm slowly moving from "let 'em play" to "be as careful as you can and let 'em play if they want to."

 
Yep, caught the quote. But that didn't change my answer. Even if liability was NOT an issue, it wouldn't work for the reason stated.
Liability is the only eason it won't be tried.  There is risk in everything these players do.  This is no difference except for the liability of purposely risking infection and no team owner will take that liability.

 
So Arizona just locked down and part of that is banning any gatherings of 50+ people for at least 30 days. Training camp is supposed to start in 29 days...

 
Liability is the only eason it won't be tried.  There is risk in everything these players do.  This is no difference except for the liability of purposely risking infection and no team owner will take that liability.
Are suggesting the players would agree to this or would it be like the Tuskegee study?

 
Are suggesting the players would agree to this or would it be like the Tuskegee study?
I have no idea.  This is purely hypothetical wondering if it could work.  

Theoretically, you could even go a step further and start isolated camps for those low risk that would want to get the virus out of the way.  I know this would never happen but an interesting thought exercise.

 
For those assuming athletes won’t be affected, read up on Von Miller’s experience. Yes, he is asthmatic. And yes, it could have been much worse. The point is that COVID-19 doesn’t have to hospitalize a player to have a real effect on his athletic ability.

https://www.si.com/.amp/nfl/2020/05/13/denver-broncos-von-miller-details-frightening-coronavirus-experience
We still don’t know the full long term effects. Even those who were asymptomatic may have effects that aren’t readily apparent. Or it could make people susceptible to other things, like how those that got chicken pox can get shingles. Who knows. 

 
60% of players in the Super Bowl last year had a BMI over 28 which is considered risky (I mean, many of those are 8% body fat but still)
Your bracketed statement is important, not a 'but still'.  Apparently something like 60% are considered "obese" but that is simply an equation of height by weight, and has nothing to do with health or fat.  Almost every RB in the NFL is by definition "obese" with very high BMI's.  Can't see a single player in the league outside of a lineman, actually have a BMI that relates to them being obese or overweight.

 
60% of players in the Super Bowl last year had a BMI over 28 which is considered risky (I mean, many of those are 8% body fat but still)
Your bracketed statement is important, not a 'but still'.  Apparently something like 60% are considered "obese" but that is simply an equation of height by weight, and has nothing to do with health or fat.  Almost every RB in the NFL is by definition "obese" with very high BMI's.  Can't see a single player in the league outside of a lineman, actually have a BMI that relates to them being obese or overweight.
My point is that the NFL doctor was listing that stat and saying it was concerning to the league.  So I agree with you but still, they are worried about it.

ETA: It was Dr Thom Mayer, who is actually the NFLPA doctor, not the league's doctor.  

 
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My point is that the NFL doctor was listing that stat and saying it was concerning to the league.  So I agree with you but still, they are worried about it.
Pure BMI is normally -- from what doctors tell me -- the most statistically significant factor when it comes to that sort of stuff (comorbidity). Every time they hear the excuse of natural build or in shape but with a high BMI, they shake their head and correct the person. It's BMI that correlates most highly with hypertension, diabetes, etc., not fitness. 

That's probably why the NFL doctor was saying that.   

 
Your bracketed statement is important, not a 'but still'.  Apparently something like 60% are considered "obese" but that is simply an equation of height by weight, and has nothing to do with health or fat.  Almost every RB in the NFL is by definition "obese" with very high BMI's.  Can't see a single player in the league outside of a lineman, actually have a BMI that relates to them being obese or overweight.
That's a pretty good portion of the league I would think.

 
Training camp starts in less than a month. NJ and NY just enacted a mandatory 14 day quarantine for people arriving from 16 states where coronavirus infections are climbing. One of the Bills writers yesterday said something like 60 of Buffalo’s players are from those states and even more of them may be in those states now due to training. I imagine it is similar for Giants and Jets players. So legally all of those players must arrive 2 weeks early and quarantine to be allowed to participate in training camp.

Now imagine that things don’t improve in those 16 states or it spreads to different states over the next two months and the quarantine is still in place when the NFL season or preseason is supposed to start. What happens in Week 2 when the Bills and Dolphins are supposed to play?

 
That's a pretty good portion of the league I would think.
Ya, 30% are linemen.  About half of those are athletic freaks like DE's though, and even some OL.  Either way, the 15% of the league or so who could be described as obese/overweight/fat/whatever you want to call it, should have top medical care and daily tests, so they should be alright.

 
Profootballtalk's Mike Florio reports the NFL has officially decided to reduce the preseason to two games. 

The league will reportedly scrap exhibition weeks one and four. It no longer makes sense to play four preseason games in a normal year. With a worldwide pandemic raging, the reduction is a no-brainer for 2020. It could be a coronavirus-induced change that ends up surviving beyond this year. Teams simply no longer take the preseason seriously, with many not even playing their regulars in what has traditionally been a "regular season dress rehearsal" in the third game.  

SOURCE: Profootballtalk on Twitter 

Jul 1, 2020, 4:09 PM ET

 
The Athletic's Daniel Kaplan reports the league is considering a plan that would allow fans to attend games this fall after signing a waiver promising not to sue the league if they contract COVID-19. 

It's a "personal responsibility" plan. It's fair in theory, but it ignores those fans' responsibility not to spread the virus in their communities. This is going to be close to an impossible tightrope for the league to walk. Fans attending games still seems unlikely, and if they do, it will be in a form unrecognizable to what we are used to. If it does come to pass, Kaplan reports the league is encouraging cashless payment and prepackaged food. This will be a saga that drags on for weeks.   

SOURCE: The Athletic 

Jul 1, 2020, 3:36 PM ET

 
NFL Network's Mike Garafolo reports the NFLPA has yet to agree to play any preseason games. 

It was reported Thursday that the league has decided to cut the number of exhibition games from four to two, but Garafolo reports "many in union leadership" are wondering if there should be any preseason games at all. Per Garafolo, some would rather "get this thing as safe as we can" during the summer with "32 little bubbles" ahead of the real games starting in September. COVID-19 is a landmine for every professional league, but most of all the NFL, a contact sport with massive rosters and locker room personnel. Talks figure to continue for the entire month of July, with a final play perhaps not signed off on until the eve of training camp. 

SOURCE: Mike Garafolo on Twitter

Jul 1, 2020, 7:22 PM ET

 
Yeah, the signed waiver policy could still end up being an issue. Someone could go to a game and sign the waiver . . . but then transmit it to someone else (that didn’t attend the game). Guess what? If I see that you went to the game and I ended up infected, I didn’t sign a waiver, so I would be all over the league. 

 
Gross Negligence - Even if a waiver states that you agree not to hold the company responsible for injury, the courts may hold a company liable for injuries arising out of gross negligence in the case of extreme recklessness or disregard for safety.

I doubt a signed waiver will stop a flood of litigation when fans get sick.

 
Gross Negligence - Even if a waiver states that you agree not to hold the company responsible for injury, the courts may hold a company liable for injuries arising out of gross negligence in the case of extreme recklessness or disregard for safety.

I doubt a signed waiver will stop a flood of litigation when fans get sick.
There's no reason for fans at games at all.  The couple million they'd make in ticket revenue isn't worth the potential millions they'd lose in legal cases and potential millions they'd lose if the season shuts down.  Be happy we have football, pump smart crowd noise into the stadiums, and end it there.

 
There's no reason for fans at games at all.  The couple million they'd make in ticket revenue isn't worth the potential millions they'd lose in legal cases and potential millions they'd lose if the season shuts down.  Be happy we have football, pump smart crowd noise into the stadiums, and end it there.
Parking, concessions...most owners are in on the cut for those, which add up significantly. That said, it would be foolish of them to insist on fans for both fan safety and others' safety.  

 
There's no reason for fans at games at all.  The couple million they'd make in ticket revenue isn't worth the potential millions they'd lose in legal cases and potential millions they'd lose if the season shuts down.  Be happy we have football, pump smart crowd noise into the stadiums, and end it there.
Agree. I'm just pointing out, waivers aren't some magical thing that would stop any chance of lawsuits against the league.

 
Parking, concessions...most owners are in on the cut for those, which add up significantly. That said, it would be foolish of them to insist on fans for both fan safety and others' safety.  
Still not worth the financial risk. 

I would be surprised if they were selling food/drinks at games even if they allowed fans there.

 
Training camp starts in less than a month. NJ and NY just enacted a mandatory 14 day quarantine for people arriving from 16 states where coronavirus infections are climbing. One of the Bills writers yesterday said something like 60 of Buffalo’s players are from those states and even more of them may be in those states now due to training. I imagine it is similar for Giants and Jets players. So legally all of those players must arrive 2 weeks early and quarantine to be allowed to participate in training camp.

Now imagine that things don’t improve in those 16 states or it spreads to different states over the next two months and the quarantine is still in place when the NFL season or preseason is supposed to start. What happens in Week 2 when the Bills and Dolphins are supposed to play?
I believe Cuomo said NY's doesn't apply to professional sports. Dunno about NJ's, but NJ and CT have generally been doing the same things as NY. 

 
Pip's Invitation said:
I believe Cuomo said NY's doesn't apply to professional sports. Dunno about NJ's, but NJ and CT have generally been doing the same things as NY. 
Yeah, I just read that apparently there’s an exemption if you are coming for work. That seems like a pretty big loophole.

 
Anarchy99 said:
Yeah, the signed waiver policy could still end up being an issue. Someone could go to a game and sign the waiver . . . but then transmit it to someone else (that didn’t attend the game). Guess what? If I see that you went to the game and I ended up infected, I didn’t sign a waiver, so I would be all over the league. 
This just seems wrong to me.  People choose to go to a game of their own accord that end up catching/transmitting is their own fault.  It is not the NFL's fault.  They don't make anyone go to the game.  Lawsuits like this shouldn't be allowed...……..although I know they would happen.  It's how people think they can make a fast buck.  It's actually part of the bigger picture problem in this country of nobody taking responsibility for themselves. 

 
This just seems wrong to me.  People choose to go to a game of their own accord that end up catching/transmitting is their own fault.  It is not the NFL's fault.  They don't make anyone go to the game.  Lawsuits like this shouldn't be allowed...……..although I know they would happen.  It's how people think they can make a fast buck.  It's actually part of the bigger picture problem in this country of nobody taking responsibility for themselves. 
In my example, the person ending up getting infected DID NOT go to the game but got infected from someone else THAT DID go to the game. The person that attended the game signed a waiver and the second person did not. How was the second person at fault?

I still think by the time we get to September, if there are games there won’t be fans in the seats. And I also am losing faith that they will get a full season in. IMO, their best bet was going the bubble strategy and having the entire league assembled in someplace like North Dakota, Vermont, or Wyoming. 

 
In my example, the person ending up getting infected DID NOT go to the game but got infected from someone else THAT DID go to the game. The person that attended the game signed a waiver and the second person did not. How was the second person at fault?

I still think by the time we get to September, if there are games there won’t be fans in the seats. And I also am losing faith that they will get a full season in. IMO, their best bet was going the bubble strategy and having the entire league assembled in someplace like North Dakota, Vermont, or Wyoming. 
How is the NFL at fault?  They did not force person 1 to go to the game.  They did not cause person 1 to bump into person 2 and transmit the virus.  Was person #1 wearing a mask and staying 6' away from person 2 when it was transmitted?  Was person #2 wearing a mask and washing their hands sufficiently?   Sometimes stuff just happens and no matter how hard you want to blame the deep pockets it is not their fault.  

My point was people sue over things they have no business suing over.  This would be one of those times.  However, I also agree I don't see fans going to any games (if they are able to be played) mainly because of the ability to sue over things like this.  The NFL doesn't want the liability (even if they aren't really liable). 

 
How is the NFL at fault?  They did not force person 1 to go to the game.  They did not cause person 1 to bump into person 2 and transmit the virus.  Was person #1 wearing a mask and staying 6' away from person 2 when it was transmitted?  Was person #2 wearing a mask and washing their hands sufficiently?   Sometimes stuff just happens and no matter how hard you want to blame the deep pockets it is not their fault.  

My point was people sue over things they have no business suing over.  This would be one of those times.  However, I also agree I don't see fans going to any games (if they are able to be played) mainly because of the ability to sue over things like this.  The NFL doesn't want the liability (even if they aren't really liable). 
I forget what the legal term is, but it is possible to have to take on liability even if future events happen that had nothing to do with an initial incident. I remember a case where someone at a home improvement store suffered a non life threatening injury that required an ambulance to transport the customer to a hospital for treatment. The ambulance ended up in a bad accident and the customer died from injuries sustained in the accident (not the injury he sustained at the store). The court ruled the store was liable because the customer would not have been in the car accident without getting injured at the store. COVID may fall under a completely different category and set of laws for all I know.

I agree that we are a sue happy nation and people will file lawsuits over just about anything. The NFL has deep pockets, so they would be ripe for potential lawsuits (frivolous or otherwise). I heard Mike Giardi from NFL Network on the radio today. He felt that it will be nearly impossible to play the season and he has his doubts if they will play. He pointed out that most of the coaches in the league are in the higher risk categories, and if anyone starts getting hospitalized or dies things will change quickly.

 
I forget what the legal term is, but it is possible to have to take on liability even if future events happen that had nothing to do with an initial incident. I remember a case where someone at a home improvement store suffered a non life threatening injury that required an ambulance to transport the customer to a hospital for treatment. The ambulance ended up in a bad accident and the customer died from injuries sustained in the accident (not the injury he sustained at the store). The court ruled the store was liable because the customer would not have been in the car accident without getting injured at the store. COVID may fall under a completely different category and set of laws for all I know.

I agree that we are a sue happy nation and people will file lawsuits over just about anything. The NFL has deep pockets, so they would be ripe for potential lawsuits (frivolous or otherwise). I heard Mike Giardi from NFL Network on the radio today. He felt that it will be nearly impossible to play the season and he has his doubts if they will play. He pointed out that most of the coaches in the league are in the higher risk categories, and if anyone starts getting hospitalized or dies things will change quickly.
I know there is the felony murder rule where if a death happens in the commission of a felony the perpetrator can be charged with Murder 1 and this can be rolled over in a situation like you described.  I was actually on a jury where the defendant was convicted of first degree murder because someone died days later due to a pulmonary embolism after being beaten by the defendant.  Without the beating the victim wouldn't have been in a hospital bed for a week leading to a clot that broke loose and killed them.  I am not sure if the liability in your situation is similar but I think it shouldn't be (unless the store's negligence caused the injury in the first place - in other words it wasn't just an accident of nobody's fault). 

I see the COVID thing as something totally different.  I just hate the idea of people suing over something that is really nobody's fault.  Everyone has free will and in a situation like acquiring a virus it really isn't anybody's fault if they are just living their life.  Now if you have the virus and spit on someone that is a different story. 

But i get that there are laws in place or precedent set for a string of instances leading to something.  It just irks me that this would fall in that category. 

 
I know there is the felony murder rule where if a death happens in the commission of a felony the perpetrator can be charged with Murder 1 and this can be rolled over in a situation like you described.  I was actually on a jury where the defendant was convicted of first degree murder because someone died days later due to a pulmonary embolism after being beaten by the defendant.  Without the beating the victim wouldn't have been in a hospital bed for a week leading to a clot that broke loose and killed them.  I am not sure if the liability in your situation is similar but I think it shouldn't be (unless the store's negligence caused the injury in the first place - in other words it wasn't just an accident of nobody's fault). 

I see the COVID thing as something totally different.  I just hate the idea of people suing over something that is really nobody's fault.  Everyone has free will and in a situation like acquiring a virus it really isn't anybody's fault if they are just living their life.  Now if you have the virus and spit on someone that is a different story. 

But i get that there are laws in place or precedent set for a string of instances leading to something.  It just irks me that this would fall in that category. 
Just to flesh out the home improvement story, yes, the customer got hurt when he had a box fall on him that was improperly stored on top of one of the shelves in an aisle that he was shopping in. So the legal liability clock started when the box fell and hit him (and anything that happened after that was on the store).

I am not an attorney so my opinions have no legal standing whatsoever, but I would guess that if there was an outbreak that was traced directly to an NFL game, someone would make a legal argument that if the game was never played (when there is a known pandemic which spreads through large gatherings) that the league knowingly and willful decided to play the game anyway and that directly led to the plaintiff getting sick. Maybe that would fly, maybe it wouldn't . . . but either way it would be a PR nightmare for the league.

 
Just to flesh out the home improvement story, yes, the customer got hurt when he had a box fall on him that was improperly stored on top of one of the shelves in an aisle that he was shopping in. So the legal liability clock started when the box fell and hit him (and anything that happened after that was on the store).

I am not an attorney so my opinions have no legal standing whatsoever, but I would guess that if there was an outbreak that was traced directly to an NFL game, someone would make a legal argument that if the game was never played (when there is a known pandemic which spreads through large gatherings) that the league knowingly and willful decided to play the game anyway and that directly led to the plaintiff getting sick. Maybe that would fly, maybe it wouldn't . . . but either way it would be a PR nightmare for the league.
I just don't think it should be able to happen.  Just because the NFL played the game they didn't force anyone to go to the game.  People went of their own free will knowing the risks of the pandemic.  It was not the NFL's fault they got sick.  They had a choice to go or not go.  The guy in the store did not know there was a risk of a poorly placed box that was the store's fault.  That is the big difference to me. 

All that said, I completely agree that what you described is exactly what would happen to the NFL which is why I can't ever see them allowing fans in the near future. 

 
Everyone has free will and in a situation like acquiring a virus it really isn't anybody's fault if they are just living their life. 
I'm not taking a side here but ... what? If someone is dumb enough to go to a place where there are say 20,000 or 30,000 other people in the middle of  pandemic, you don't think it is their fault they got the virus? Really?? No responsibility at all?

 
USA Today's Dan Wolken reports the NFL "isn't interested" in moving the 2021 NFL Draft back in the calendar if college football was delayed into the spring.

The coronavirus is a threat to the college football season, as it's certainly harder to get a dozen conferences all on the same page, not to mention that they are dealing with unpaid student athletes. One (unlikely) option would be to push the college season back a few months in hopes to find a safer time to play but that would interfere with the four-month long NFL Draft process for college's biggest stars. The NFL being unwilling to change their own offseason calendar puts college football in a very tough spot. The top prospects apparently would need to choose between preparing for the draft or playing in games if college football slides back a few months. 

SOURCE: Dan Wolken on Twitter

Jul 2, 2020, 4:10 PM ET

 
I'm not taking a side here but ... what? If someone is dumb enough to go to a place where there are say 20,000 or 30,000 other people in the middle of  pandemic, you don't think it is their fault they got the virus? Really?? No responsibility at all?
Yes.  That is exactly my point.  The NFL should not be sued by someone for going to the game of their own free will.    My point is it is not the NFL's fault for having the game.  If you want to take on that risk that is 100% on the individual for going...…..not the NFL for playing the game. 

 
Yes.  That is exactly my point.  The NFL should not be sued by someone for going to the game of their own free will.    My point is it is not the NFL's fault for having the game.  If you want to take on that risk that is 100% on the individual for going...…..not the NFL for playing the game. 
Right. I get the point of not holding the NFL responsible. But the fact it is "no one's fault" when someone willfully puts themselves at risk? No, can't get behind that at all. I think we are on the same page there, though your response confuses me a little so I'm not 100% sure.

 
Right. I get the point of not holding the NFL responsible. But the fact it is "no one's fault" when someone willfully puts themselves at risk? No, can't get behind that at all. I think we are on the same page there, though your response confuses me a little so I'm not 100% sure.
We are on the same page.  I think people need to take personal responsibility.  If you go to the game and get sick that is on you.....don't blame anybody else. 

ETA:  I guess I should have added   It's no one's fault....."but their own"

 
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ESPN's Adam Schefter reports NFL teams are planning to bring fewer than 90 players to training camp.

Teams always have 90 players at the beginning of training camp, but that number is expected to drop as teams look to limit their exposure to potential coronavirus carriers. Schefter reports some teams will have 75-80 players instead, a number that hurts many 2020 undrafted free agents looking to find a spot on special teams. This decision could anger some NFL agents, but it probably is the right call from a team perspective. Veterans have a leg up on rookies this offseason with offseason sessions limited.

SOURCE: Adam Schefter on Twitter

Jul 2, 2020, 4:49 PM ET

 
South Carolina governor Henry McMaster said that he would not lift the restrictions on his executive order so that football can be played in the state.

The executive order currently bans spectator sports, concerts and movies in the state of South Carolina. McMaster addressed the football side of things, specifically, saying that he "cannot lift those restrictions, if these numbers continue to rise and the danger persists. I can’t do it. I won’t do it. This fall will not be like other falls. We will not be able to have college football. We will not be able to have high school football." This is among the nightmare scenarios in our current CFB COVID-19 dystopia. Even if programs can launch their football teams through a hyper-speed offseason during an ongoing pandemic and make it to to the start of the season relatively intact, it's possible that states themselves could put the clamps down on football should coronavirus cases be too high at a state-wide level. McMaster went on Twitter on Wednesday to stress the importance of masks and social distancing if there's to be football in South Carolina this fall.

SOURCE: Saturday Down South

Jul 2, 2020, 6:11 PM ET

 
ESPN's Adam Schefter reports NFL teams are planning to bring fewer than 90 players to training camp.

Teams always have 90 players at the beginning of training camp, but that number is expected to drop as teams look to limit their exposure to potential coronavirus carriers. Schefter reports some teams will have 75-80 players instead, a number that hurts many 2020 undrafted free agents looking to find a spot on special teams. This decision could anger some NFL agents, but it probably is the right call from a team perspective. Veterans have a leg up on rookies this offseason with offseason sessions limited.

SOURCE: Adam Schefter on Twitter

Jul 2, 2020, 4:49 PM ET
Ten fewer players is going t make a difference?  That is pretty laughable.  When their players start falling ill or get quarantined, they will need those extra bodies...

 
The NFLPA continues to recommend no preseason games be played ahead of the 2020 season, according to NFL Network's Mike Garafolo.

The union's call with players was held on Friday, outlining possible return and practice protocols. This includes testing, strength and conditioning, unpadded practices and then normal practices - four phases that could combine to last 48 days, which equals an entire preseason, leaving no time for exhibition games to be played ahead of Week 1. None of this is official until the league and NFLPA agree on a schedule.

SOURCE: Mike Garafolo on Twitter

Jul 3, 2020, 1:59 PM ET

 
ESPN's Dan Graziano reports the NFLPA Board of Player Representatives unanimously voted to recommend skipping the 2020 preseason.

It's a big domino to fall at 8 p.m. eastern, just hours before July 4th. At this point, it seems like the 2020 preseason will be totally cancelled as teams look to limit exposure with coronavirus cases climbing in many states. The NFL is already planning on inviting fewer than normal players to training camps, partially because they know the preseason is on the ropes. It won't be a surprise if teams ultimately hold private training camps and roll into Week 1 without scrimmaging other teams. For fantasy purposes, it means rookies will have an even harder time earning an early-season role. 

SOURCE: Adam Schefter on Twitter

Jul 3, 2020, 8:37 PM ET

 
The NFL has issued severe media restrictions for training camp. 

Each team will be allowed only four pool reporters, none of whom will be allowed to tweet from practice. There are also significant, new restrictions on what can later be reported in articles. This has absolutely nothing to do with coronavirus safety and everything to do with a long-held NFL dream of limiting media access. It's counter-productive, as the more reporting and tweeting, the more interest there is in the product. It would be a great shame were these restrictions to remain in place following the COVID-19 pandemic. 

SOURCE: Ben Baby on Twitter 

Jul 4, 2020, 2:17 PM ET

 

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