How's the Packer decision to go with Rodgers looking now? (4 Viewers)

[Da Guru]

As a non-biased fan who has watched both Farve and Rogers quite a bit this season, I would say the Packers would be worse with Farve at QB.

Farve is a shell of his former self and Rogers is a budding start. Will there be some growing pains? Of course but the Pack did the correct thing. Plus it was time.

 

[sho nuff]

Wow. Didn't realize until I was reading the Packer site they did not get a 3rd down conversion until the fourth quarter.

Who cares? You can keep spewing the nonsense, or you can look at it realistically. Green Bay scored 21 points when they didn't play all that great offensivley.The defense gave up the most yards to an opposing offense since 1993. Additionally, just like every other game this season, the defense could not get a stop when needed. They had Houston pinned at their own three with little time left in the game. If you can't keep them from scoring in that situation, you never will.If you'd like to continue to point fingers at the offense, feel free. Of course, you're very wrong about this one.

The offense isn't getting it done as well!

Agreed...and its not all Rodgers...how many huge penalties took away big plays or nice gains yesterday?The sack he cannot take, but the Oline was not great there either. Still...no matter if 3 guys come untouched, you cannot take that sack and lose those yards to take you out of FG range.The D was good at times...but still gave in too much and could not hold in the end.The offense was bad at times, ok at times...and could not make a play in the end.Both sides of the ball were very inconsistent and the penalties have got to stop.McCarthy is not having a great year for sure. Both in play calling IMO...and when a team is that undisciplined, it falls on the head coach.

 

[Phurfur]

As a non-biased fan who has watched both Farve and Rogers quite a bit this season, I would say the Packers would be worse with Farve at QB.Farve is a shell of his former self and Rogers is a budding start. Will there be some growing pains? Of course but the Pack did the correct thing. Plus it was time.

I agree, Rodgers is the one bright spot in the GB season.

 

[zDragon]

Wow. Didn't realize until I was reading the Packer site they did not get a 3rd down conversion until the fourth quarter.

Who cares? You can keep spewing the nonsense, or you can look at it realistically. Green Bay scored 21 points when they didn't play all that great offensivley.The defense gave up the most yards to an opposing offense since 1993. Additionally, just like every other game this season, the defense could not get a stop when needed. They had Houston pinned at their own three with little time left in the game. If you can't keep them from scoring in that situation, you never will.

If you'd like to continue to point fingers at the offense, feel free. Of course, you're very wrong about this one.

Seven of the points were after the defense handed them the ball on the 23. Lets not forget all the other turn-overs between special teams and defense. That kept them in the game when they should have been blown out.Why are you focusing on yards and not points. Is 24 points the most they've given up since 1993? Are you telling me there incapable of winning since the Defense gives up points. Funny the Texans won and they gave up 21.

Funny the Texans defense gives up more points per game and won.

Funny the Saints give up more points but have a winning record.

Funny the Cardinals give up about the same but have a better record.

QUARTERBACK AARON RODGERS:

(on how frustrating the close losses are) "It's disappointing. We had a chance to win. It's kind of gone the same script. We start slow, wait for somebody to make a play. Somebody does, then we start turning it on on the offensive side of the ball, get the ball in good position, have an opportunity to win the game and we don't. So that's probably the most frustrating part.

Seems to back up my statements pretty well of inconsistency on offense needing to be addressed. Of course this is only Rodgers saying this.

 

[zDragon]

I'm missing none of the picture. The 10% has been repeated before in a loss (Min) if not more. I'm pretty sure they had under 30% in several. Not sure what the TB 3rd down conversions rate was but it couldn't have been to high since they had only 8 first downs all game.

But hey if your happy with that offense so far then by all means enjoy it.

I'd like to think i'm more an echo of truth. So when the broken record is put on the player I simply echo back facts from the games and season.

You have yet to mention a thing about this defense being responsible for any of the struggles this year...and you claim to be missing none of the picture?Are you kidding me?

Who said Im happy with that offense?

Im saying its not just the offense that is to blame. You keep blaming only one aspect of the game.

and again, in the context of this thread...Brett Favre vs. Rodgers as far as the decision...#4 alone would not just make it all better either.

Please check again. I've said the defense has struggled at times. Here I'll say it again so you can understand "THE DEFENSE HAS TROUBLES TO!". The poing i am trying to make is that the defense is not that much worse than last year and that consistency on offense changes some of the close losses to wins.

Do you seriously believe if the Packers strung together drives with a +3 turn-over number that they don't win that game? Sure the defense gave up yardage and did not play four good quarters but they kept it close score wise while the offense came out of the gate cold, did not string drives together, etc.

Rodgers admits they are a streaky offense right now.

 

[Ozymandias]

As a non-biased fan who has watched both Farve and Rogers quite a bit this season, I would say the Packers would be worse with Farve at QB.Farve is a shell of his former self and Rogers is a budding start. Will there be some growing pains? Of course but the Pack did the correct thing. Plus it was time.

And, don't forget they will get a second rounder in the draft because of this (unless the Jets implode).

 

[zDragon]

Packer Panther Post game from McCarthy

I thought the biggest thing we did to our defense, we put them in negative field position time and time again. It's a different game when you're on the 50-yard line as opposed to the minus thirty. And Steve Smith made two huge plays in the fourth quarter. We had coverage there and that happens. He's a big time player and he made big plays."

Sounds similar to what I've said about that game.

 

[zDragon]

Saints vs PackersGreen Bay Packers Head Coach Mike McCarthy(on the loss) "We didn't slow them down at all tonight. Give credit to the Saints and the play of the quarterback. He was on fire coming into the game and we didn't cool him off any. It was disappointing. I don't really have too much to say about the defense, but they played excellent offense. Our offense...I thought we played very well in the first half. We had the ball 18 minutes and it was very productive. We were playing the game that we wanted to play."

Seems to me my point of being against a really good offense combined with no offensive football in the second half was on point.

 

[zDragon]

McCarthy

Vikings vs Packers

Q: Your defense had an up and down day, what was your analysis of their play?

A: Our defense clearly kept us in the game with the turnovers. They generated the big plays that we didn't establish on the offensive side of the ball. I just felt that this football team fought like crazy like they always do. They gave a great effort and they fought to give us a chance to win the game. In the end we had that chance but we didn't get it done.

Rodgers

Q: Having a 4-5 record right now, how do you see your chances?

A: There are seven games left. There is still a lot of time left. We still have to play Chicago twice and play Detroit one more time. We just need to do the things that we are capable of doing. I have a lot of confidence in the guys in charge, this team, and the kind of players we have. We are resilient, but I am disappointed as heck about this game, a game that I feel we should have won, despite the way we played on offense. The fan support here in Minnesota was incredible. I hope the fans come out again next week for us in a big one at home.

 

[zDragon]

Titans vs Packers

QB AARON RODGERS

(on his play)

I was disappointed with how I played. I feel our defense played well enough for us to win. I just didn't make enough plays and turned the ball over twice.

(on the offense)

We kicked three field goals. As good as that is for Mason we need to finish those drives, especially when you get a chance to take the lead on these guys. They run the ball so well with LenDale and Chris. You have to make them throw it. The defense gave us a great opportunity to win the game. We have to finish those drives.

 

[zDragon]

Falcons vs Packers

(on if the first half play was the difference in the game) "That's the problem. We've played five games now and we have not played a complete game in any of those. We've had stretches where we've looked like a really good football team. I thought the second half we did some really nice things, got the momentum back, but it's been like that every game, and coach (McCarthy) has been harping on it. We've been trying to work on tempo in practice and finishing plays and to start off the game the way we did with two three-and-outs is just inexcusable."

Consistency seems to be needed.

 

[zDragon]

Dallas game

(What was the difference tonight? Did they beat you up front? It looked like they really had the advantage running the football tonight.)

Well, statistically they put up big numbers. Any time someone runs for over 200 yards, that's significant. But how they did it is the thing that we're more interested in. We made some mistakes, particularly on the long run. It was an alignment error. That's what happens when things like that happen. They were able to run the ball for four quarters and kind of wear our defense down. I thought our defense was playing very well and the offense really didn't help them there in the second quarter. The time of possession at halftime was definitely tilted too far against our defense and I think it caught up to us.

With all the posts I've made it seems to go to my line of thinking if a consistent offense shows up this team is winning games.Sure the defense has issues as show above but they are not that much worse from last year and the offense has put them in bad situations in a lot of games.

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

For me it is time to look ahead. Maybe to get Flynn and Brohm some snaps Not to denigrte Rodgers but to give them some much needed experience), Get Jordy Nelson and Jermicheal Finley a few more snaps in preperation for next year. It's time to shut down the older vets who have been playing hurt to let them begin recoperation for next year.

It is time to really work the cap to pull as much stuff forward to this year so that they cango shopping for Albert Haynesworth.

I'm looking forward to the draft. The Packers will have a better pick than they have generally had for a decade and a half, and they will get the extra pick for Favre. They will be able to go BPA except at Q.B. or W.R. I'm thinking we could see them go Offensive Tackle, C.B. Guard with their first three, though an Impact D.E. might be available with their first pick. I'm excited for the future. I will be interested to see if T.T. can make some magic.

 

[zDragon]

For me it is time to look ahead. Maybe to get Flynn and Brohm some snaps Not to denigrte Rodgers but to give them some much needed experience), Get Jordy Nelson and Jermicheal Finley a few more snaps in preperation for next year. It's time to shut down the older vets who have been playing hurt to let them begin recoperation for next year.It is time to really work the cap to pull as much stuff forward to this year so that they cango shopping for Albert Haynesworth. I'm looking forward to the draft. The Packers will have a better pick than they have generally had for a decade and a half, and they will get the extra pick for Favre. They will be able to go BPA except at Q.B. or W.R. I'm thinking we could see them go Offensive Tackle, C.B. Guard with their first three, though an Impact D.E. might be available with their first pick. I'm excited for the future. I will be interested to see if T.T. can make some magic.

The future is looking goof for the Pack for sure. The draft pick for Favre is going a very nice bonus.

 

[Man in the yellow hat]

Wow. Didn't realize until I was reading the Packer site they did not get a 3rd down conversion until the fourth quarter.

Who cares? You can keep spewing the nonsense, or you can look at it realistically. Green Bay scored 21 points when they didn't play all that great offensivley.The defense gave up the most yards to an opposing offense since 1993. Additionally, just like every other game this season, the defense could not get a stop when needed. They had Houston pinned at their own three with little time left in the game. If you can't keep them from scoring in that situation, you never will.

If you'd like to continue to point fingers at the offense, feel free. Of course, you're very wrong about this one.

Seven of the points were after the defense handed them the ball on the 23. Lets not forget all the other turn-overs between special teams and defense. That kept them in the game when they should have been blown out.Why are you focusing on yards and not points. Is 24 points the most they've given up since 1993? Are you telling me there incapable of winning since the Defense gives up points. Funny the Texans won and they gave up 21.

Funny the Texans defense gives up more points per game and won.

Funny the Saints give up more points but have a winning record.

Funny the Cardinals give up about the same but have a better record.

QUARTERBACK AARON RODGERS:

(on how frustrating the close losses are) "It's disappointing. We had a chance to win. It's kind of gone the same script. We start slow, wait for somebody to make a play. Somebody does, then we start turning it on on the offensive side of the ball, get the ball in good position, have an opportunity to win the game and we don't. So that's probably the most frustrating part.

Seems to back up my statements pretty well of inconsistency on offense needing to be addressed. Of course this is only Rodgers saying this.

You can't be serious with this. Owen Daniels fumbled going into the end zone. Brown missed a 41 yard field goal. Slaton fumbled inside the Packer 18. There's a reason Houston only put up 24 points, it's because they fumbled and missed a field goal.I'm focusing on yards because it's frigging 549 yards of offense. Good defenses do not give up 549 yards of offense. Any offense that puts up 549 yards total DOMINATED the game.

Or if points really is the measure, as you claim, how do you explain giving up 51 to New Orleans?

This defense is putrid.

The offense, whether less efficient or not, is putting up enough points to win games.

And since you're so concerned about points, let's not overlook that they're actually averaging 27.3 points per game this year, compared to 27.2 in 07.

Defensively, in 08 they're giving up 24.5, compared to 18.2 on 07. That's just about one TD more per game.

Tell me again how it's the offense? We'd all love them to play more consistent on offense. But the defense is just plain killing them this year.

 

[zDragon]

Wow. Didn't realize until I was reading the Packer site they did not get a 3rd down conversion until the fourth quarter.

Who cares? You can keep spewing the nonsense, or you can look at it realistically. Green Bay scored 21 points when they didn't play all that great offensivley.The defense gave up the most yards to an opposing offense since 1993. Additionally, just like every other game this season, the defense could not get a stop when needed. They had Houston pinned at their own three with little time left in the game. If you can't keep them from scoring in that situation, you never will.

If you'd like to continue to point fingers at the offense, feel free. Of course, you're very wrong about this one.

Seven of the points were after the defense handed them the ball on the 23. Lets not forget all the other turn-overs between special teams and defense. That kept them in the game when they should have been blown out.Why are you focusing on yards and not points. Is 24 points the most they've given up since 1993? Are you telling me there incapable of winning since the Defense gives up points. Funny the Texans won and they gave up 21.

Funny the Texans defense gives up more points per game and won.

Funny the Saints give up more points but have a winning record.

Funny the Cardinals give up about the same but have a better record.

QUARTERBACK AARON RODGERS:

(on how frustrating the close losses are) "It's disappointing. We had a chance to win. It's kind of gone the same script. We start slow, wait for somebody to make a play. Somebody does, then we start turning it on on the offensive side of the ball, get the ball in good position, have an opportunity to win the game and we don't. So that's probably the most frustrating part.

Seems to back up my statements pretty well of inconsistency on offense needing to be addressed. Of course this is only Rodgers saying this.

You can't be serious with this. Owen Daniels fumbled going into the end zone. Brown missed a 41 yard field goal. Slaton fumbled inside the Packer 18. There's a reason Houston only put up 24 points, it's because they fumbled and missed a field goal.I'm focusing on yards because it's frigging 549 yards of offense. Good defenses do not give up 549 yards of offense.

Or if points really is the measure, as you claim, how do you explain giving up 51 to New Orleans?

This defense is putrid.

The offense, whether less efficient or not, is putting up enough points to win games.

You don't think the 10% 3rd down conversions mattered in that number. Sure the defense didn't play well but the offense played worse. A +3 turn-over advantage should have been a blow-out.The texans D is ranked 26th and terrible yet the Packers offense can only get 10% 3rd down conversions. 17% below the Lions on the year. One of the scores came off a Defensive interception that but them on the Texan 23. Other wise I doubt that score happens.

The Packers D is ranked 22nd and the Texans manage to win despite turn-over after turn-over.

The Texans are average 23.5 points per game this year. So the Pack defense gave up only .5 points more than the Texans average for the year. A putrid defense generally pads that number up quite a bit.

Yeah. I admitted the defense played badly in the 51 point debacle.

Lets see what A. Rodgers has to say from Saints post game

"In a game like this, you have to take care of the ball. But in the second half we just didn't do that. This game is all about limiting your turnovers and your production in the red zone. If I'm going to throw 3 interceptions, you are not going to win." "

See he manned up just like he did after the Texans game. Shows he has a lot to offer as he matures at the QB position.The defense did play badly but the offense disappeared in the second half even Mccarthy only mentioned the first half for the offense playing well.

To bad you can't accept the defense has not had as big a drop-off even with injuries as you imply by calling them putrid. I also posted notes where in several game the defense kept them in the close one and they still lost.

Just so you know where I'm coming from the Lions Defense is putrid. The packers is not. The Lions offense is putrid the Packers is not but they did not even meet the Lions 3rd conversion rate which says a lot.

 

[zDragon]

Wow. Didn't realize until I was reading the Packer site they did not get a 3rd down conversion until the fourth quarter.

Who cares? You can keep spewing the nonsense, or you can look at it realistically. Green Bay scored 21 points when they didn't play all that great offensivley.The defense gave up the most yards to an opposing offense since 1993. Additionally, just like every other game this season, the defense could not get a stop when needed. They had Houston pinned at their own three with little time left in the game. If you can't keep them from scoring in that situation, you never will.

If you'd like to continue to point fingers at the offense, feel free. Of course, you're very wrong about this one.

Seven of the points were after the defense handed them the ball on the 23. Lets not forget all the other turn-overs between special teams and defense. That kept them in the game when they should have been blown out.Why are you focusing on yards and not points. Is 24 points the most they've given up since 1993? Are you telling me there incapable of winning since the Defense gives up points. Funny the Texans won and they gave up 21.

Funny the Texans defense gives up more points per game and won.

Funny the Saints give up more points but have a winning record.

Funny the Cardinals give up about the same but have a better record.

QUARTERBACK AARON RODGERS:

(on how frustrating the close losses are) "It's disappointing. We had a chance to win. It's kind of gone the same script. We start slow, wait for somebody to make a play. Somebody does, then we start turning it on on the offensive side of the ball, get the ball in good position, have an opportunity to win the game and we don't. So that's probably the most frustrating part.

Seems to back up my statements pretty well of inconsistency on offense needing to be addressed. Of course this is only Rodgers saying this.

You can't be serious with this. Owen Daniels fumbled going into the end zone. Brown missed a 41 yard field goal. Slaton fumbled inside the Packer 18. There's a reason Houston only put up 24 points, it's because they fumbled and missed a field goal.I'm focusing on yards because it's frigging 549 yards of offense. Good defenses do not give up 549 yards of offense. Any offense that puts up 549 yards total DOMINATED the game.

Or if points really is the measure, as you claim, how do you explain giving up 51 to New Orleans?

This defense is putrid.

The offense, whether less efficient or not, is putting up enough points to win games.

And since you're so concerned about points, let's not overlook that they're actually averaging 27.3 points per game this year, compared to 27.2 in 07.

Defensively, in 08 they're giving up 24.5, compared to 18.2 on 07. That's just about one TD more per game.

Tell me again how it's the offense? We'd all love them to play more consistent on offense. But the defense is just plain killing them this year.

BTW how does that number change when you take away the 49 points the defense has scored? Not to mention dropping them in beautiful field position say like the Texans 23yd line?You do realize the starting LOS for the defense has went from top 5 in the league to bottom 5 in the league right? Defending bad field position like the Texans had to do this week with the Pick to the 23 hurts the defense.

You do realize that the packers drivers are shorter, they have few pts per drive, and fewer successful drives than last year.

 

[griz145389]

For me it is time to look ahead. Maybe to get Flynn and Brohm some snaps Not to denigrte Rodgers but to give them some much needed experience), Get Jordy Nelson and Jermicheal Finley a few more snaps in preperation for next year. It's time to shut down the older vets who have been playing hurt to let them begin recoperation for next year.It is time to really work the cap to pull as much stuff forward to this year so that they cango shopping for Albert Haynesworth. I'm looking forward to the draft. The Packers will have a better pick than they have generally had for a decade and a half, and they will get the extra pick for Favre. They will be able to go BPA except at Q.B. or W.R. I'm thinking we could see them go Offensive Tackle, C.B. Guard with their first three, though an Impact D.E. might be available with their first pick. I'm excited for the future. I will be interested to see if T.T. can make some magic.

I can guarantee you that Thompson will not sign Haynesworth in free agency. That is not his style. He might add a few guys for depth here or there, but that will be the extent of it.

 

[Chicago Hooligan]

Yeah why don't they just sign a bunch of random guys like Washington and Dallas and become awesome.

 

[Phurfur]

For me it is time to look ahead. Maybe to get Flynn and Brohm some snaps Not to denigrte Rodgers but to give them some much needed experience), Get Jordy Nelson and Jermicheal Finley a few more snaps in preperation for next year. It's time to shut down the older vets who have been playing hurt to let them begin recoperation for next year.

It is time to really work the cap to pull as much stuff forward to this year so that they cango shopping for Albert Haynesworth.

I'm looking forward to the draft. The Packers will have a better pick than they have generally had for a decade and a half, and they will get the extra pick for Favre. They will be able to go BPA except at Q.B. or W.R. I'm thinking we could see them go Offensive Tackle, C.B. Guard with their first three, though an Impact D.E. might be available with their first pick. I'm excited for the future. I will be interested to see if T.T. can make some magic.

I can guarantee you that Thompson will not sign Haynesworth in free agency. That is not his style. He might add a few guys for depth here or there, but that will be the extent of it.

Character issues alone would eliminate him.

 

[sho nuff]

I'm missing none of the picture. The 10% has been repeated before in a loss (Min) if not more. I'm pretty sure they had under 30% in several. Not sure what the TB 3rd down conversions rate was but it couldn't have been to high since they had only 8 first downs all game.

But hey if your happy with that offense so far then by all means enjoy it.

I'd like to think i'm more an echo of truth. So when the broken record is put on the player I simply echo back facts from the games and season.

You have yet to mention a thing about this defense being responsible for any of the struggles this year...and you claim to be missing none of the picture?Are you kidding me?

Who said Im happy with that offense?

Im saying its not just the offense that is to blame. You keep blaming only one aspect of the game.

and again, in the context of this thread...Brett Favre vs. Rodgers as far as the decision...#4 alone would not just make it all better either.

Please check again. I've said the defense has struggled at times. Here I'll say it again so you can understand "THE DEFENSE HAS TROUBLES TO!". The poing i am trying to make is that the defense is not that much worse than last year and that consistency on offense changes some of the close losses to wins.

Do you seriously believe if the Packers strung together drives with a +3 turn-over number that they don't win that game? Sure the defense gave up yardage and did not play four good quarters but they kept it close score wise while the offense came out of the gate cold, did not string drives together, etc.

Rodgers admits they are a streaky offense right now.

You have barely mentioned the defense.And the defense is that much worse than last year. You just don't like hearing that.

I know the Packers have strung together drives at other times and they have not won.

I know that if the defense could get off the field more on third down the team has a better chance of winning too.

Again...I have said the offense was not good yesterday...so I still have no clue what you are arguing about unless you just want the defense to take absolutely no blame.

 

[sho nuff]

Saints vs PackersGreen Bay Packers Head Coach Mike McCarthy(on the loss) "We didn't slow them down at all tonight. Give credit to the Saints and the play of the quarterback. He was on fire coming into the game and we didn't cool him off any. It was disappointing. I don't really have too much to say about the defense, but they played excellent offense. Our offense...I thought we played very well in the first half. We had the ball 18 minutes and it was very productive. We were playing the game that we wanted to play."

Seems to me my point of being against a really good offense combined with no offensive football in the second half was on point.

Except that you gave the defense a total pass while he ripped the defense.

 

[sho nuff]

McCarthy

Vikings vs Packers

Q: Your defense had an up and down day, what was your analysis of their play?

A: Our defense clearly kept us in the game with the turnovers. They generated the big plays that we didn't establish on the offensive side of the ball. I just felt that this football team fought like crazy like they always do. They gave a great effort and they fought to give us a chance to win the game. In the end we had that chance but we didn't get it done.

Rodgers

Q: Having a 4-5 record right now, how do you see your chances?

A: There are seven games left. There is still a lot of time left. We still have to play Chicago twice and play Detroit one more time. We just need to do the things that we are capable of doing. I have a lot of confidence in the guys in charge, this team, and the kind of players we have. We are resilient, but I am disappointed as heck about this game, a game that I feel we should have won, despite the way we played on offense. The fan support here in Minnesota was incredible. I hope the fans come out again next week for us in a big one at home.

Care to show where anyone just blamed the defense on that game?You won't find it Im betting.

Why are you providing quotes to prove an argument that nobody is making against you?

 

[sho nuff]

For me it is time to look ahead. Maybe to get Flynn and Brohm some snaps Not to denigrte Rodgers but to give them some much needed experience), Get Jordy Nelson and Jermicheal Finley a few more snaps in preperation for next year. It's time to shut down the older vets who have been playing hurt to let them begin recoperation for next year.It is time to really work the cap to pull as much stuff forward to this year so that they cango shopping for Albert Haynesworth. I'm looking forward to the draft. The Packers will have a better pick than they have generally had for a decade and a half, and they will get the extra pick for Favre. They will be able to go BPA except at Q.B. or W.R. I'm thinking we could see them go Offensive Tackle, C.B. Guard with their first three, though an Impact D.E. might be available with their first pick. I'm excited for the future. I will be interested to see if T.T. can make some magic.

IMO...Rodgers needs the experience more than they do.They have alot to figure out on the line right now.With tauscher hurt and out for the year,, and a free agent.Will TT resign him cheap...will another team take the risk on him and his knee?

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

For me it is time to look ahead. Maybe to get Flynn and Brohm some snaps Not to denigrte Rodgers but to give them some much needed experience), Get Jordy Nelson and Jermicheal Finley a few more snaps in preperation for next year. It's time to shut down the older vets who have been playing hurt to let them begin recoperation for next year.It is time to really work the cap to pull as much stuff forward to this year so that they cango shopping for Albert Haynesworth. I'm looking forward to the draft. The Packers will have a better pick than they have generally had for a decade and a half, and they will get the extra pick for Favre. They will be able to go BPA except at Q.B. or W.R. I'm thinking we could see them go Offensive Tackle, C.B. Guard with their first three, though an Impact D.E. might be available with their first pick. I'm excited for the future. I will be interested to see if T.T. can make some magic.

I can guarantee you that Thompson will not sign Haynesworth in free agency. That is not his style. He might add a few guys for depth here or there, but that will be the extent of it.

I understand he has been loath to do so thus far. While past behavior can be predictive of the future, and is likely the best predictor thereof, we do not really know the exact parameters of how TT percieved his decision. Say Thompson thought an acquisition would butress a declining team and extend the time of it's decline, is that the same choice as acquiring the final piece to an ascendant team? I suspect he will not make a bold move. i suspected the same of Ron Wolfe until I saw Reggie wearing the colors.Still, you are likely right. I'm still realing from the year and am talking crazy talk.

 

[sho nuff]

Wow. Didn't realize until I was reading the Packer site they did not get a 3rd down conversion until the fourth quarter.

Who cares? You can keep spewing the nonsense, or you can look at it realistically. Green Bay scored 21 points when they didn't play all that great offensivley.The defense gave up the most yards to an opposing offense since 1993. Additionally, just like every other game this season, the defense could not get a stop when needed. They had Houston pinned at their own three with little time left in the game. If you can't keep them from scoring in that situation, you never will.

If you'd like to continue to point fingers at the offense, feel free. Of course, you're very wrong about this one.

Seven of the points were after the defense handed them the ball on the 23. Lets not forget all the other turn-overs between special teams and defense. That kept them in the game when they should have been blown out.Why are you focusing on yards and not points. Is 24 points the most they've given up since 1993? Are you telling me there incapable of winning since the Defense gives up points. Funny the Texans won and they gave up 21.

Funny the Texans defense gives up more points per game and won.

Funny the Saints give up more points but have a winning record.

Funny the Cardinals give up about the same but have a better record.

QUARTERBACK AARON RODGERS:

(on how frustrating the close losses are) "It's disappointing. We had a chance to win. It's kind of gone the same script. We start slow, wait for somebody to make a play. Somebody does, then we start turning it on on the offensive side of the ball, get the ball in good position, have an opportunity to win the game and we don't. So that's probably the most frustrating part.

Seems to back up my statements pretty well of inconsistency on offense needing to be addressed. Of course this is only Rodgers saying this.

You can't be serious with this. Owen Daniels fumbled going into the end zone. Brown missed a 41 yard field goal. Slaton fumbled inside the Packer 18. There's a reason Houston only put up 24 points, it's because they fumbled and missed a field goal.I'm focusing on yards because it's frigging 549 yards of offense. Good defenses do not give up 549 yards of offense.

Or if points really is the measure, as you claim, how do you explain giving up 51 to New Orleans?

This defense is putrid.

The offense, whether less efficient or not, is putting up enough points to win games.

You don't think the 10% 3rd down conversions mattered in that number. Sure the defense didn't play well but the offense played worse. A +3 turn-over advantage should have been a blow-out.The texans D is ranked 26th and terrible yet the Packers offense can only get 10% 3rd down conversions. 17% below the Lions on the year. One of the scores came off a Defensive interception that but them on the Texan 23. Other wise I doubt that score happens.

The Packers D is ranked 22nd and the Texans manage to win despite turn-over after turn-over.

The Texans are average 23.5 points per game this year. So the Pack defense gave up only .5 points more than the Texans average for the year. A putrid defense generally pads that number up quite a bit.

Yeah. I admitted the defense played badly in the 51 point debacle.

Lets see what A. Rodgers has to say from Saints post game

"In a game like this, you have to take care of the ball. But in the second half we just didn't do that. This game is all about limiting your turnovers and your production in the red zone. If I'm going to throw 3 interceptions, you are not going to win." "

See he manned up just like he did after the Texans game. Shows he has a lot to offer as he matures at the QB position.The defense did play badly but the offense disappeared in the second half even Mccarthy only mentioned the first half for the offense playing well.

To bad you can't accept the defense has not had as big a drop-off even with injuries as you imply by calling them putrid. I also posted notes where in several game the defense kept them in the close one and they still lost.

Just so you know where I'm coming from the Lions Defense is putrid. The packers is not. The Lions offense is putrid the Packers is not but they did not even meet the Lions 3rd conversion rate which says a lot.

Do you think Rodgers would blame it on the defense?And too bad you cannot accept the defense has had a big dropoff.

You posted notes...great...3 sentences about a few games. Yup...that proves your point.

LOL.

The Lions offense also put up points on the Packer D after the offense came out strong in the first half.

 

[zDragon]

I'm missing none of the picture. The 10% has been repeated before in a loss (Min) if not more. I'm pretty sure they had under 30% in several. Not sure what the TB 3rd down conversions rate was but it couldn't have been to high since they had only 8 first downs all game.

But hey if your happy with that offense so far then by all means enjoy it.

I'd like to think i'm more an echo of truth. So when the broken record is put on the player I simply echo back facts from the games and season.

You have yet to mention a thing about this defense being responsible for any of the struggles this year...and you claim to be missing none of the picture?Are you kidding me?

Who said Im happy with that offense?

Im saying its not just the offense that is to blame. You keep blaming only one aspect of the game.

and again, in the context of this thread...Brett Favre vs. Rodgers as far as the decision...#4 alone would not just make it all better either.

Please check again. I've said the defense has struggled at times. Here I'll say it again so you can understand "THE DEFENSE HAS TROUBLES TO!". The poing i am trying to make is that the defense is not that much worse than last year and that consistency on offense changes some of the close losses to wins.

Do you seriously believe if the Packers strung together drives with a +3 turn-over number that they don't win that game? Sure the defense gave up yardage and did not play four good quarters but they kept it close score wise while the offense came out of the gate cold, did not string drives together, etc.

Rodgers admits they are a streaky offense right now.

You have barely mentioned the defense.And the defense is that much worse than last year. You just don't like hearing that.

I know the Packers have strung together drives at other times and they have not won.

I know that if the defense could get off the field more on third down the team has a better chance of winning too.

Again...I have said the offense was not good yesterday...so I still have no clue what you are arguing about unless you just want the defense to take absolutely no blame.

You still state they are much worse than last year which they are not. The funny thing is you then go on to say you have no clue what I am arguing about unless I want them to take no blame.I've never said they deserve no blame.

My point has been they are not much worse than last year and have in fact kept them in several of the close losses.

 

[sho nuff]

I'm missing none of the picture. The 10% has been repeated before in a loss (Min) if not more. I'm pretty sure they had under 30% in several. Not sure what the TB 3rd down conversions rate was but it couldn't have been to high since they had only 8 first downs all game.

But hey if your happy with that offense so far then by all means enjoy it.

I'd like to think i'm more an echo of truth. So when the broken record is put on the player I simply echo back facts from the games and season.

You have yet to mention a thing about this defense being responsible for any of the struggles this year...and you claim to be missing none of the picture?Are you kidding me?

Who said Im happy with that offense?

Im saying its not just the offense that is to blame. You keep blaming only one aspect of the game.

and again, in the context of this thread...Brett Favre vs. Rodgers as far as the decision...#4 alone would not just make it all better either.

Please check again. I've said the defense has struggled at times. Here I'll say it again so you can understand "THE DEFENSE HAS TROUBLES TO!". The poing i am trying to make is that the defense is not that much worse than last year and that consistency on offense changes some of the close losses to wins.

Do you seriously believe if the Packers strung together drives with a +3 turn-over number that they don't win that game? Sure the defense gave up yardage and did not play four good quarters but they kept it close score wise while the offense came out of the gate cold, did not string drives together, etc.

Rodgers admits they are a streaky offense right now.

You have barely mentioned the defense.And the defense is that much worse than last year. You just don't like hearing that.

I know the Packers have strung together drives at other times and they have not won.

I know that if the defense could get off the field more on third down the team has a better chance of winning too.

Again...I have said the offense was not good yesterday...so I still have no clue what you are arguing about unless you just want the defense to take absolutely no blame.

You still state they are much worse than last year which they are not. The funny thing is you then go on to say you have no clue what I am arguing about unless I want them to take no blame.I've never said they deserve no blame.

My point has been they are not much worse than last year and have in fact kept them in several of the close losses.

Yes...they are much worse.6 points per game worse...more rushing yards again yesterday...facts you cannot dispute. You can try blaming it all on the offense...but people who watch know that last year's defense would not have folded on that last drive like they did yesterday...nor would they have given up the big plays like they did against the Panthers.

I say that because you consistently have been blaming the offense for everything.

When people even bring up the D, you site some stat you decided to hold on to. This week its the 10% on third downs.

The fact is...they are much worse than last year...and while "keeping them in close games" they are not helping to close teams out either. They did to start the year against Minny and Detroit, but not much after that.

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

For me it is time to look ahead. Maybe to get Flynn and Brohm some snaps Not to denigrte Rodgers but to give them some much needed experience), Get Jordy Nelson and Jermicheal Finley a few more snaps in preperation for next year. It's time to shut down the older vets who have been playing hurt to let them begin recoperation for next year.It is time to really work the cap to pull as much stuff forward to this year so that they cango shopping for Albert Haynesworth. I'm looking forward to the draft. The Packers will have a better pick than they have generally had for a decade and a half, and they will get the extra pick for Favre. They will be able to go BPA except at Q.B. or W.R. I'm thinking we could see them go Offensive Tackle, C.B. Guard with their first three, though an Impact D.E. might be available with their first pick. I'm excited for the future. I will be interested to see if T.T. can make some magic.

IMO...Rodgers needs the experience more than they do.They have alot to figure out on the line right now.With tauscher hurt and out for the year,, and a free agent.Will TT resign him cheap...will another team take the risk on him and his knee?

I am not advocating sitting Rodgers. He needs experience. I am advocating getting the others a couple of snaps if possible. I'm presuming the Packers will have around 180 to 210 snaps left this year on offense. If Flynn and Brohm could get 15 apiece it would go a long way to measuring where they are and where they can go. I know 15 snaps isn't much to evaluate by, and may be tough to come by or could even cost the team another loss. Still it would be an incredibly valuable evaluation tool over nothing, and I don't really care if they lose only eight or as many as 11. Once they lost 5 or more their season went bad and once they got to 7 losses all but the most unrealistic have to be looking to next year.

 

[Chicago Hooligan]

There is no "evaluation" to be done of rookie QBs who don't get first-team practice snaps suddenly in NFL games. Flynn and Brohm are under contract for years.

 

[zDragon]

Saints vs PackersGreen Bay Packers Head Coach Mike McCarthy(on the loss) "We didn't slow them down at all tonight. Give credit to the Saints and the play of the quarterback. He was on fire coming into the game and we didn't cool him off any. It was disappointing. I don't really have too much to say about the defense, but they played excellent offense. Our offense...I thought we played very well in the first half. We had the ball 18 minutes and it was very productive. We were playing the game that we wanted to play."

Seems to me my point of being against a really good offense combined with no offensive football in the second half was on point.

Except that you gave the defense a total pass while he ripped the defense.

How did I give the defense a pass? I could have been like most posters and just taken the facts out that don't match my viewpoint. I've stated several times the defense had issues but the big difference in the game being a blow-out was the offense disappearing in the second half. If the second half was like the first for both the offense and defense it's a close game. He was right on with my points.I find it funny I gave the defense a pass even though I posted the entire comment.

 

[sho nuff]

For me it is time to look ahead. Maybe to get Flynn and Brohm some snaps Not to denigrte Rodgers but to give them some much needed experience), Get Jordy Nelson and Jermicheal Finley a few more snaps in preperation for next year. It's time to shut down the older vets who have been playing hurt to let them begin recoperation for next year.It is time to really work the cap to pull as much stuff forward to this year so that they cango shopping for Albert Haynesworth. I'm looking forward to the draft. The Packers will have a better pick than they have generally had for a decade and a half, and they will get the extra pick for Favre. They will be able to go BPA except at Q.B. or W.R. I'm thinking we could see them go Offensive Tackle, C.B. Guard with their first three, though an Impact D.E. might be available with their first pick. I'm excited for the future. I will be interested to see if T.T. can make some magic.

IMO...Rodgers needs the experience more than they do.They have alot to figure out on the line right now.With tauscher hurt and out for the year,, and a free agent.Will TT resign him cheap...will another team take the risk on him and his knee?

I am not advocating sitting Rodgers. He needs experience. I am advocating getting the others a couple of snaps if possible. I'm presuming the Packers will have around 180 to 210 snaps left this year on offense. If Flynn and Brohm could get 15 apiece it would go a long way to measuring where they are and where they can go. I know 15 snaps isn't much to evaluate by, and may be tough to come by or could even cost the team another loss. Still it would be an incredibly valuable evaluation tool over nothing, and I don't really care if they lose only eight or as many as 11. Once they lost 5 or more their season went bad and once they got to 7 losses all but the most unrealistic have to be looking to next year.

It depends on situations IMO.Times like the Saints game...and Chicago...yup, got to give them some snaps.

 

[sho nuff]

Saints vs PackersGreen Bay Packers Head Coach Mike McCarthy(on the loss) "We didn't slow them down at all tonight. Give credit to the Saints and the play of the quarterback. He was on fire coming into the game and we didn't cool him off any. It was disappointing. I don't really have too much to say about the defense, but they played excellent offense. Our offense...I thought we played very well in the first half. We had the ball 18 minutes and it was very productive. We were playing the game that we wanted to play."

Seems to me my point of being against a really good offense combined with no offensive football in the second half was on point.

Except that you gave the defense a total pass while he ripped the defense.

How did I give the defense a pass? I could have been like most posters and just taken the facts out that don't match my viewpoint. I've stated several times the defense had issues but the big difference in the game being a blow-out was the offense disappearing in the second half. If the second half was like the first for both the offense and defense it's a close game. He was right on with my points.I find it funny I gave the defense a pass even though I posted the entire comment.

Anytime anyone mentioned the defense in that game you kept talking about the offense giving up the ball on the 3 and the 29.What else would you call that?You have barely stated that about the D.You are now spinning yourself around quite a bit.I think its time to put this to rest with you.You will never agree that this defense is not as good as last year and far worse.It plays out in the numbers. It plays out in everyone who has watched both of them play.Its not hard to see.You don't agree...fine...there is no sense even trying to get through to you.

 

[parasaurolophus]

At what point in time are we done rebuilding?

Is four years enough? Is next year do or die for Ted?

On one hand you have a team that is a few plays away from being in first place, on the other hand you have a team that is being labeled as putrid.

What needs to be done in the off season?

Will TT make a splash in free agency?

That is my biggest problem with TT. He goes on and on about the draft, claims he doesnt draft based on need, but also doesnt really sign free agents.

Well how the heck do you plug any holes then? Cross your fingers?

 

[zDragon]

Yes...they are much worse.

6 points per game worse...more rushing yards again yesterday...facts you cannot dispute. You can try blaming it all on the offense...but people who watch know that last year's defense would not have folded on that last drive like they did yesterday...nor would they have given up the big plays like they did against the Panthers.

I say that because you consistently have been blaming the offense for everything.

When people even bring up the D, you site some stat you decided to hold on to. This week its the 10% on third downs.

The fact is...they are much worse than last year...and while "keeping them in close games" they are not helping to close teams out either. They did to start the year against Minny and Detroit, but not much after that.

I never tried to dispute them. I can justify them by watching the games and seeing whats happening.Once again your wrong on me blaming everything on the offense. That's just your smokescreen when you have no other insights other than the two points you continue to harp on that I've explained away and given detailed stats for. I've even pointed out in depth analysis that shows they are better than last year. Which you just choose to ignore or try to explain away with opinion versus fact.

Let's see what Mcarthy has to say about the Panthers game.

HEAD COACH MIKE McCARTHY:

(on not winning close games) "Well, it's a combination of not making enough plays and (not) doing some of the basic things we've been able to do in the past. I thought the biggest negative today was field position. It's two weeks in a row we're playing on a football field that's 200 yards longer than our opponent. "

(on if he thinks the offense has to score a touchdown every possession) "I didn't feel that way today. I can see why you asked the question based on last week's game also. I thought the biggest thing we did to our defense, we put them in negative field position time and time again. It's a different game when you're on the 50-yard line as opposed to the minus thirty. And Steve Smith made two huge plays in the fourth quarter. We had coverage there and that happens. He's a big time player and he made big plays."

How about the vikings gameSo I'm apparently way off base thinking the offense could possibly put the defense in a bad position and it be a bad thing for the defense. Glad to see no one here agrees with me on that point as you've pointed out.

Lets see what Rodgers thinks about the offense and the close losses.

QUARTERBACK AARON RODGERS:

(on how frustrating the close losses are) "It's disappointing. We had a chance to win. It's kind of gone the same script. We start slow, wait for somebody to make a play. Somebody does, then we start turning it on on the offensive side of the ball, get the ball in good position, have an opportunity to win the game and we don't. So that's probably the most frustrating part."

How bout the fact you stated only in the first two games did the defense do it's job.McCarthy on the Vikings game.

Q: Your defense had an up and down day, what was your analysis of their play?

A: Our defense clearly kept us in the game with the turnovers. They generated the big plays that we didn't establish on the offensive side of the ball. I just felt that this football team fought like crazy like they always do. They gave a great effort and they fought to give us a chance to win the game. In the end we had that chance but we didn't get it done.

Seems McCarthy agrees with me on this game also. Now on to the Titans. You felt the defense let the Packers down.

QB AARON RODGERS

(on his play)

I was disappointed with how I played. I feel our defense played well enough for us to win. I just didn't make enough plays and turned the ball over twice.

Of course this close loss was on the defense i'm sure since they only did anything in the first two games. A good sign that Rodgers manned up. Once again this agrees with me.

How bout the Colts game. It's not one of the first two games.

Could you have asked for a better performance out of the defense?)

I thought our defense was excellent today, along with the crowd. When you play great defense and having the crowd at Lambeau Field, that's what it looks like right there. And that's what we'll continue to talk about as a football team. The importance of winning home games, but the importance of utilizing Lambeau Field as a homefield advantage. I thought it was a great victory into the bye and I thought our defense was huge today.

Why they played excellent yet you stated outside the first two games.Not going to mention the bears game we know the defense did good there.

Oh yeah seahawks game is outside the first two games.

Mccarthy

(Did your defense step up today...) Excellent performance from the defense today.

How bout the Bucs game.

Head Coach

(On their struggles) "I couldn't tell you specifically an exact breakdown. I'll just go through. Offensively, we were poor today, didn't run the ball very well. I thought they got after us upfront, the running back and the run blocking unit is not in sync. We need to get that corrected, that's two weeks in a row. We need to do a better job there. Pass protection, as a whole, the down and distance, particularly in the second quarter, we were playing up hill with the field position and the penalties. We just made a number of the same mistakes that we've made the first three weeks. That's four weeks now where we have penalties, turnovers. It's very difficult to win a football game like that. You're playing a good football team, they're a good defense and a tough environment. I just felt offensively we clearly didn't do enough to win the game. Not that our defense played outstanding. Time and time again they gave us a number of opportunities to win this football game and we didn't take advantage of it."

Rodgers

(On not being able to get in sync) "Turnovers, we had too many turnovers today that led directly to points. I think they scored off every one of our turnovers. They had 24 points off those turnovers. Our defense did a good job keeping us in the game and gave us great field position in the second half. We didn't execute at all on offense. You got to give the credit, they had a good game plan, but I think it was more about us not executing than them executing. We didn't make any plays."

Lets see offensively poor defense time and time again gave them a chance to win the game. According to you this only happened in the first two games. Guess your wrong again. Afraid the post will get to long so I'll end it here with the Facts apparently being it wasn't just the first two games they did well in.

 

[Chicago Hooligan]

Yet again, the teams who made "splashes" in free agency are not the teams looking like contenders in December.

Yes, some teams with poor talent bases last year were able to IMPROVE through FA but they haven't become great teams. And even for these teams, the draft has been at least as important as FA acquisitions (i.e. Atlanta).

You want to be like the Steelers, Giants, Colts, Titans... Bucs, maybe. Not the Cowboys, Jets or Redskins.

Add a couple above average (not even all-pro) guys to the Packers' o-line and d-line and this team will look and play MUCH better.

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

There is no "evaluation" to be done of rookie QBs who don't get first-team practice snaps suddenly in NFL games. Flynn and Brohm are under contract for years.

I disagree. There is serious evaluation to be done. This year the Packers dodged a bullet by having inexperienced back ups. They cannot continue to hope this continues. They need a read on how these young guys are developing to know whether they will grow to be sufficient protection, or whether the Packers should be active in F.A. See the F.A. market will be more or less closed by the time the Packers get to give Flynn and Brohm a good evaluation in Mini Camps. The look into this right now could be invaluable, and since the season is over why not?

 

[zDragon]

Saints vs PackersGreen Bay Packers Head Coach Mike McCarthy(on the loss) "We didn't slow them down at all tonight. Give credit to the Saints and the play of the quarterback. He was on fire coming into the game and we didn't cool him off any. It was disappointing. I don't really have too much to say about the defense, but they played excellent offense. Our offense...I thought we played very well in the first half. We had the ball 18 minutes and it was very productive. We were playing the game that we wanted to play."

Seems to me my point of being against a really good offense combined with no offensive football in the second half was on point.

Except that you gave the defense a total pass while he ripped the defense.

How did I give the defense a pass? I could have been like most posters and just taken the facts out that don't match my viewpoint. I've stated several times the defense had issues but the big difference in the game being a blow-out was the offense disappearing in the second half. If the second half was like the first for both the offense and defense it's a close game. He was right on with my points.I find it funny I gave the defense a pass even though I posted the entire comment.

Anytime anyone mentioned the defense in that game you kept talking about the offense giving up the ball on the 3 and the 29.What else would you call that?You have barely stated that about the D.You are now spinning yourself around quite a bit.I think its time to put this to rest with you.You will never agree that this defense is not as good as last year and far worse.It plays out in the numbers. It plays out in everyone who has watched both of them play.Its not hard to see.You don't agree...fine...there is no sense even trying to get through to you.

I call it showing you a fact you seem to ignore. That some of the points were not all on the defense as you would have one think. That field position is an issue in giving up points and that the offense indirectly contributed to the high number so.I've yet to spin but have pointed out facts for consideration in the high score and the blind saying look 51 points the defense it terrible this year.Why would I agree to something that is not true? I've proved they have played well outside of the first two games you mentioned.Your seeing what you want to see. I guess you've ignored what Rodgers and McCarthy have stated about the Defense keeping them in some of the close games and the offense not doing enough. Once again why would I agree to something that not true.

 

[zDragon]

Just for Sho I"m adding the Dallas game

HEAD COACH MIKE McCARTHY:

(on Dallas' running game) "Well, statistically, they put up big numbers. Anytime someone runs for 200 yards, that's significant. But how they did it, that's the thing that we're more interested in. We made some mistakes, particularly the long run. It was an alignment error. That's what happens when things like that happen. They were able to run the ball for four quarters and kind of wear our defense down. I thought our defense was playing very well, and the offense didn't help them there in the second quarter. The time of possession at halftime was definitely tilted too far against our defense, and I think it caught up to us."

Really the defense was playing very well. That can't happen they are far worse than last year. Oh wait the offense didn't help them.Seems like I've stated that could be a problem before. Nah, no one on the boards supports that line of thought.

 

[Chicago Hooligan]

There is no "evaluation" to be done of rookie QBs who don't get first-team practice snaps suddenly in NFL games. Flynn and Brohm are under contract for years.

I disagree. There is serious evaluation to be done. This year the Packers dodged a bullet by having inexperienced back ups. They cannot continue to hope this continues. They need a read on how these young guys are developing to know whether they will grow to be sufficient protection, or whether the Packers should be active in F.A. See the F.A. market will be more or less closed by the time the Packers get to give Flynn and Brohm a good evaluation in Mini Camps. The look into this right now could be invaluable, and since the season is over why not?

What do you learn from a 2nd-round rookie in 15 or 20 snaps that is enough to say "we'd better replace him with a FA journeyman"? They aren't going to carry more than 3 QBs, and Flynn or Brohm will instantly be on another team if they get cut for... who, like, Tim Rattay?I think you will see one of them play if Week 16 or 17 is a blowout, but just for the hell of it. It won't have a bearing on their status for 2009.

 

[zDragon]

What the heck. Lets see if the defense played good in the Chicago game since it's outside the first two.

(on playing nickel defense so frequently) "Based on the way they were utilizing their formations, they were spreading out the tight ends and creating mismatches in their favor. We just matched them up based on what we saw during the course of the week. I thought our defensive staff did an excellent job with the plan. A.J. Hawk managed it very well for the first week at middle linebacker. The communication and sideline communication was very smooth. We were very pleased with the way the defense played."

Yep, another good outing. Wow would've never thunk it since they are so terrible.

 

[Chicago Hooligan]

Or, best-case scenario, maybe they play Flynn and hope he looks worth a 5th round pick to someone...

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

There is no "evaluation" to be done of rookie QBs who don't get first-team practice snaps suddenly in NFL games. Flynn and Brohm are under contract for years.

I disagree. There is serious evaluation to be done. This year the Packers dodged a bullet by having inexperienced back ups. They cannot continue to hope this continues. They need a read on how these young guys are developing to know whether they will grow to be sufficient protection, or whether the Packers should be active in F.A. See the F.A. market will be more or less closed by the time the Packers get to give Flynn and Brohm a good evaluation in Mini Camps. The look into this right now could be invaluable, and since the season is over why not?

What do you learn from a 2nd-round rookie in 15 or 20 snaps that is enough to say "we'd better replace him with a FA journeyman"? They aren't going to carry more than 3 QBs, and Flynn or Brohm will instantly be on another team if they get cut for... who, like, Tim Rattay?I think you will see one of them play if Week 16 or 17 is a blowout, but just for the hell of it. It won't have a bearing on their status for 2009.

I think what they learn is how far they have come this year. Is it a perfect indicator, no. It would be, however, far more information than nothing which is what the packers have otherwise, and Rodgers does not need the snaps that badly.The same thing goes for Finley and to an extent Nelson. They have been in the system for a while. They should know the playbook. Time for a test to see what they have.I also don't see any sense in running Woodson on his toe, or working Harris too hard. Let the toe and spleen heal. Can Clifton recover his old form? It would be nice to know as much as possible before the draft and even during the first F.A. moments. He should have the maximum time to heal, rehab, and make his case. It's really in the team's best interest.I don't believe in tanking. Play hard through the last moment. Strive to win as it may, as some coaches say be a habit. But one can do this while being smart with ones assets. Their is no sense taking a whip to a horse after the leader has already crossed the finish line.

 

[Kleck]

Add another player to the Packer IR.

Tauscher tore his ACL and it out the remainder of the year.

 

[griz145389]

Yet again, the teams who made "splashes" in free agency are not the teams looking like contenders in December.Yes, some teams with poor talent bases last year were able to IMPROVE through FA but they haven't become great teams. And even for these teams, the draft has been at least as important as FA acquisitions (i.e. Atlanta).You want to be like the Steelers, Giants, Colts, Titans... Bucs, maybe. Not the Cowboys, Jets or Redskins.Add a couple above average (not even all-pro) guys to the Packers' o-line and d-line and this team will look and play MUCH better.

I don't think Thompson will even do that though. Looking at his record of free agent signings, he has had one marquee guy (Woodson) and 3 arguably above average guys (Pickett, Bigby, and Chillar).That is it. I am not advocating for him to break the bank and try to sign every high profile free agent, but it would be nice to see him do more than he has. 1 marquee player and three guys that are arguably above average is barely anything in 4 years.

 

[sho nuff]

Yes...they are much worse.

6 points per game worse...more rushing yards again yesterday...facts you cannot dispute. You can try blaming it all on the offense...but people who watch know that last year's defense would not have folded on that last drive like they did yesterday...nor would they have given up the big plays like they did against the Panthers.

I say that because you consistently have been blaming the offense for everything.

When people even bring up the D, you site some stat you decided to hold on to. This week its the 10% on third downs.

The fact is...they are much worse than last year...and while "keeping them in close games" they are not helping to close teams out either. They did to start the year against Minny and Detroit, but not much after that.

I never tried to dispute them. I can justify them by watching the games and seeing whats happening.Once again your wrong on me blaming everything on the offense. That's just your smokescreen when you have no other insights other than the two points you continue to harp on that I've explained away and given detailed stats for. I've even pointed out in depth analysis that shows they are better than last year. Which you just choose to ignore or try to explain away with opinion versus fact.

Let's see what Mcarthy has to say about the Panthers game.

HEAD COACH MIKE McCARTHY:

(on not winning close games) "Well, it's a combination of not making enough plays and (not) doing some of the basic things we've been able to do in the past. I thought the biggest negative today was field position. It's two weeks in a row we're playing on a football field that's 200 yards longer than our opponent. "

(on if he thinks the offense has to score a touchdown every possession) "I didn't feel that way today. I can see why you asked the question based on last week's game also. I thought the biggest thing we did to our defense, we put them in negative field position time and time again. It's a different game when you're on the 50-yard line as opposed to the minus thirty. And Steve Smith made two huge plays in the fourth quarter. We had coverage there and that happens. He's a big time player and he made big plays."

How about the vikings gameSo I'm apparently way off base thinking the offense could possibly put the defense in a bad position and it be a bad thing for the defense. Glad to see no one here agrees with me on that point as you've pointed out.

Lets see what Rodgers thinks about the offense and the close losses.

QUARTERBACK AARON RODGERS:

(on how frustrating the close losses are) "It's disappointing. We had a chance to win. It's kind of gone the same script. We start slow, wait for somebody to make a play. Somebody does, then we start turning it on on the offensive side of the ball, get the ball in good position, have an opportunity to win the game and we don't. So that's probably the most frustrating part."

How bout the fact you stated only in the first two games did the defense do it's job.McCarthy on the Vikings game.

Q: Your defense had an up and down day, what was your analysis of their play?

A: Our defense clearly kept us in the game with the turnovers. They generated the big plays that we didn't establish on the offensive side of the ball. I just felt that this football team fought like crazy like they always do. They gave a great effort and they fought to give us a chance to win the game. In the end we had that chance but we didn't get it done.

Seems McCarthy agrees with me on this game also. Now on to the Titans. You felt the defense let the Packers down.

QB AARON RODGERS

(on his play)

I was disappointed with how I played. I feel our defense played well enough for us to win. I just didn't make enough plays and turned the ball over twice.

Of course this close loss was on the defense i'm sure since they only did anything in the first two games. A good sign that Rodgers manned up. Once again this agrees with me.

How bout the Colts game. It's not one of the first two games.

Could you have asked for a better performance out of the defense?)

I thought our defense was excellent today, along with the crowd. When you play great defense and having the crowd at Lambeau Field, that's what it looks like right there. And that's what we'll continue to talk about as a football team. The importance of winning home games, but the importance of utilizing Lambeau Field as a homefield advantage. I thought it was a great victory into the bye and I thought our defense was huge today.

Why they played excellent yet you stated outside the first two games.Not going to mention the bears game we know the defense did good there.

Oh yeah seahawks game is outside the first two games.

Mccarthy

(Did your defense step up today...) Excellent performance from the defense today.

How bout the Bucs game.

Head Coach

(On their struggles) "I couldn't tell you specifically an exact breakdown. I'll just go through. Offensively, we were poor today, didn't run the ball very well. I thought they got after us upfront, the running back and the run blocking unit is not in sync. We need to get that corrected, that's two weeks in a row. We need to do a better job there. Pass protection, as a whole, the down and distance, particularly in the second quarter, we were playing up hill with the field position and the penalties. We just made a number of the same mistakes that we've made the first three weeks. That's four weeks now where we have penalties, turnovers. It's very difficult to win a football game like that. You're playing a good football team, they're a good defense and a tough environment. I just felt offensively we clearly didn't do enough to win the game. Not that our defense played outstanding. Time and time again they gave us a number of opportunities to win this football game and we didn't take advantage of it."

Rodgers

(On not being able to get in sync) "Turnovers, we had too many turnovers today that led directly to points. I think they scored off every one of our turnovers. They had 24 points off those turnovers. Our defense did a good job keeping us in the game and gave us great field position in the second half. We didn't execute at all on offense. You got to give the credit, they had a good game plan, but I think it was more about us not executing than them executing. We didn't make any plays."

Lets see offensively poor defense time and time again gave them a chance to win the game. According to you this only happened in the first two games. Guess your wrong again. Afraid the post will get to long so I'll end it here with the Facts apparently being it wasn't just the first two games they did well in.

Few things...I did not claim it was just the first 2 games they did well in. I have said several times they did well against Indy, Chicago, and Seattle.I said the first 2 games were the games the defense closed a team out. As in...they ended up close games and the defense helped close it out. Of course, in the Detroit game, the defense also let the Lions back into it by not covering Calving Johnson very well.

And you post a few quotes from McCarthy...acting as if it was all he had to say about those games. None of which changes the fact that the defense could not stop the running game against the Titans. Sure, they played well at times...and I even said that game that Rodgers struggled and made poor decisions. I have never denied that. I never blamed the defense for that game on their own.

3rd down percentage did not mean a thing to you until last week. Prior to that, I posted the 3rd down percentages from last year and this year...and this year it had been better on the year for the offense...and worse for the defense. But that does not matter to you huh?

And again...taking an Aaron Rodgers quote is a bit out there. I would never expect him to do anything but take it on himself and the offense...I don't expect him to throw the defense under the bus ever.

 

[sho nuff]

Saints vs PackersGreen Bay Packers Head Coach Mike McCarthy(on the loss) "We didn't slow them down at all tonight. Give credit to the Saints and the play of the quarterback. He was on fire coming into the game and we didn't cool him off any. It was disappointing. I don't really have too much to say about the defense, but they played excellent offense. Our offense...I thought we played very well in the first half. We had the ball 18 minutes and it was very productive. We were playing the game that we wanted to play."

Seems to me my point of being against a really good offense combined with no offensive football in the second half was on point.

Except that you gave the defense a total pass while he ripped the defense.

How did I give the defense a pass? I could have been like most posters and just taken the facts out that don't match my viewpoint. I've stated several times the defense had issues but the big difference in the game being a blow-out was the offense disappearing in the second half. If the second half was like the first for both the offense and defense it's a close game. He was right on with my points.I find it funny I gave the defense a pass even though I posted the entire comment.

Anytime anyone mentioned the defense in that game you kept talking about the offense giving up the ball on the 3 and the 29.What else would you call that?You have barely stated that about the D.You are now spinning yourself around quite a bit.I think its time to put this to rest with you.You will never agree that this defense is not as good as last year and far worse.It plays out in the numbers. It plays out in everyone who has watched both of them play.Its not hard to see.You don't agree...fine...there is no sense even trying to get through to you.

I call it showing you a fact you seem to ignore. That some of the points were not all on the defense as you would have one think. That field position is an issue in giving up points and that the offense indirectly contributed to the high number so.I've yet to spin but have pointed out facts for consideration in the high score and the blind saying look 51 points the defense it terrible this year.Why would I agree to something that is not true? I've proved they have played well outside of the first two games you mentioned.Your seeing what you want to see. I guess you've ignored what Rodgers and McCarthy have stated about the Defense keeping them in some of the close games and the offense not doing enough. Once again why would I agree to something that not true.

I don't ignore the fact that the offense gave up the ball in those situations. I say it does not appear to have mattered that game as they had already given up 31 points before that even happened...and the offense had been playing well before that.You have yet to spin? BS. I never claimed they just played well in the first two games...you said you have yet to spin...you are doing it again. I said outside of those games they have not closed teams out on D. THough, they did against Indy, I will say that. Chicago and Seatlle they were just ahead so far and there was no "closing out" needed.Im talking close game...defense needs to get a stop...and they can't do it. It has happened several times this year.Seeing what you want to see? You are posting tiny quotes from those two people thinking its all either have had to say about the things.You only see the 3 and the 29 and the 10%.

 

[sho nuff]

Hey...Tampa gave up almost 300 yards rushing last night...but I bet they only lost because their offense right?

 

[Stinger Ray]

Hey...Tampa gave up almost 300 yards rushing last night...but I bet they only lost because their offense right?

Turn the tool level down, please.

 

[parasaurolophus]

Hey...Tampa gave up almost 300 yards rushing last night...but I bet they only lost because their offense right?

more importantly they gave up 38 points to a team that scores 24/game and they average giving up 18/game.