How's your housing market? (2 Viewers)

[The Z Machine]

You live in San Deigo, pr0n?

 

[The Z Machine]

Seattle, actually, and I full well realize it's apples and oranges

yeah, no ####.

 

[DA RAIDERS]

still at it, eh tommy?

how long have you been talking about buying house? add up how much rent you have paid in that time frame. see if it's more than the price difference you're seeing in the houses you want. now add in the interest & other tax savings the house would have given you. how's it add up?

 

[Gambino]

still at it, eh tommy?how long have you been talking about buying house? add up how much rent you have paid in that time frame. see if it's more than the price difference you're seeing in the houses you want. now add in the interest & other tax savings the house would have given you. how's it add up?

Stop trying to apply logic to Gunz's plan.

 

[Chadstroma]

I'm going to be putting a home on the market that I bought in February of '05 next month. I'll report on Real Estate Crash 2004-7 as I go through this harrowing process. I'm mostly worried about my newly licenced real estate agent wife telling people things she shouldn't. You know, now that she took an online class she knows what she's doing. We will be listing for roughly 140% of the purchase price.Also, I just switched offices to start a mortgage company inside a real estate office that's been open for 8 months and was in the black at 6. I just refinanced a customer that bought a house a year ago for $580k - the appraiser came back and said there was no way he could do an honest appraisal for any less than $875k.But, don't listen to me. I just work and invest in the industry. Real estate is dead. Ask Tommy, he learns a lot writing that rent check every month. Tommy

The old favorite rule of real estate? Location, location, location! Oh, and I timing and luck help TONS too.

 

[tommyGunZ]

still at it, eh tommy?how long have you been talking about buying house? add up how much rent you have paid in that time frame. see if it's more than the price difference you're seeing in the houses you want. now add in the interest & other tax savings the house would have given you. how's it add up?

$850 a month rent, probably been waiting a year and a half (~18 months).In order to own a similar place, my mortgage + taxes and HOA would be over $2000 a month. The San Diego market as a whole is down ~ 10% since I've been waiting.I'm guessing I've probably saved 50k by waiting thus far.

 

[MelvinTScupper]

still at it, eh tommy?how long have you been talking about buying house? add up how much rent you have paid in that time frame. see if it's more than the price difference you're seeing in the houses you want. now add in the interest & other tax savings the house would have given you. how's it add up?

$850 a month rent, probably been waiting a year and a half (~18 months).In order to own a similar place, my mortgage + taxes and HOA would be over $2000 a month. The San Diego market as a whole is down ~ 10% since I've been waiting.I'm guessing I've probably saved 50k by waiting thus far.

Hmmm,$850X18 months = $15,300.So, in order to have saved 50k, on a down 10% market, I guess you're saying you're looking for houses in the $650,000 range. Hmmm, $2000/month for mortgage/taxes HOA???I think your math still blows.

 

[BassNBrew]

still at it, eh tommy?how long have you been talking about buying house? add up how much rent you have paid in that time frame. see if it's more than the price difference you're seeing in the houses you want. now add in the interest & other tax savings the house would have given you. how's it add up?

$850 a month rent, probably been waiting a year and a half (~18 months).In order to own a similar place, my mortgage + taxes and HOA would be over $2000 a month. The San Diego market as a whole is down ~ 10% since I've been waiting.I'm guessing I've probably saved 50k by waiting thus far.

Hmmm,$850X18 months = $15,300.So, in order to have saved 50k, on a down 10% market, I guess you're saying you're looking for houses in the $650,000 range. Hmmm, $2000/month for mortgage/taxes HOA???I think your math still blows.

Actually I think he's living rather large and when he does buy, will likely be getting substantially less living space/ammenities for the money. With rent/price ratios at an all time low, the only way I'd even consider buying (young and no kids) is if you knew there was going to be 10% appreciation over the next 2-3 years.

 

[tommyGunZ]

still at it, eh tommy?how long have you been talking about buying house? add up how much rent you have paid in that time frame. see if it's more than the price difference you're seeing in the houses you want. now add in the interest & other tax savings the house would have given you. how's it add up?

$850 a month rent, probably been waiting a year and a half (~18 months).In order to own a similar place, my mortgage + taxes and HOA would be over $2000 a month. The San Diego market as a whole is down ~ 10% since I've been waiting.I'm guessing I've probably saved 50k by waiting thus far.

Hmmm,$850X18 months = $15,300.So, in order to have saved 50k, on a down 10% market, I guess you're saying you're looking for houses in the $650,000 range. Hmmm, $2000/month for mortgage/taxes HOA???I think your math still blows.

850x18 = 15.3k in rent~2000x18 = 36k in mortgage/HOA/taxes on a 350k townhouse.That's ~ 21k in net savings.Additionally, 350k townhouses in my general vacinity have fallen ~ 10%, so say 35k in savings there.35k + 21K in net savings = > 50kWhere the #### did you get a 650k mortage and only 15k in total savings?

 

[MelvinTScupper]

still at it, eh tommy?how long have you been talking about buying house? add up how much rent you have paid in that time frame. see if it's more than the price difference you're seeing in the houses you want. now add in the interest & other tax savings the house would have given you. how's it add up?

$850 a month rent, probably been waiting a year and a half (~18 months).In order to own a similar place, my mortgage + taxes and HOA would be over $2000 a month. The San Diego market as a whole is down ~ 10% since I've been waiting.I'm guessing I've probably saved 50k by waiting thus far.

Hmmm,$850X18 months = $15,300.So, in order to have saved 50k, on a down 10% market, I guess you're saying you're looking for houses in the $650,000 range. Hmmm, $2000/month for mortgage/taxes HOA???I think your math still blows.

850x18 = 15.3k in rent~2000x18 = 36k in mortgage/HOA/taxes on a 350k townhouse.That's ~ 21k in net savings.Additionally, 350k townhouses in my general vacinity have fallen ~ 10%, so say 35k in savings there.35k + 21K in net savings = > 50kWhere the #### did you get a 650k mortage and only 15k in total savings?

sorry, the 21k in net savings doesn't fly with me. You didn't save anything there, you just delayed spending it. The 15k is gone. No equity whatsover.

 

[DA RAIDERS]

still at it, eh tommy?how long have you been talking about buying house? add up how much rent you have paid in that time frame. see if it's more than the price difference you're seeing in the houses you want. now add in the interest & other tax savings the house would have given you. how's it add up?

$850 a month rent, probably been waiting a year and a half (~18 months).In order to own a similar place, my mortgage + taxes and HOA would be over $2000 a month. The San Diego market as a whole is down ~ 10% since I've been waiting.I'm guessing I've probably saved 50k by waiting thus far.

Hmmm,$850X18 months = $15,300.So, in order to have saved 50k, on a down 10% market, I guess you're saying you're looking for houses in the $650,000 range. Hmmm, $2000/month for mortgage/taxes HOA???I think your math still blows.

850x18 = 15.3k in rent~2000x18 = 36k in mortgage/HOA/taxes on a 350k townhouse.That's ~ 21k in net savings.Additionally, 350k townhouses in my general vacinity have fallen ~ 10%, so say 35k in savings there.35k + 21K in net savings = > 50kWhere the #### did you get a 650k mortage and only 15k in total savings?

sorry, the 21k in net savings doesn't fly with me. You didn't save anything there, you just delayed spending it. The 15k is gone. No equity whatsover.

this is my point. you gave someone else 15 thousand dollars that you will never see again. you are also not factoring in your tax savings. i just got my interest statement on my maui condo today. 11 months of interest(bought in feb 06) on a 380K loan fixed @ 6.125 is 19K. not a bad write off.

 

[tommyGunZ]

still at it, eh tommy?how long have you been talking about buying house? add up how much rent you have paid in that time frame. see if it's more than the price difference you're seeing in the houses you want. now add in the interest & other tax savings the house would have given you. how's it add up?

$850 a month rent, probably been waiting a year and a half (~18 months).In order to own a similar place, my mortgage + taxes and HOA would be over $2000 a month. The San Diego market as a whole is down ~ 10% since I've been waiting.I'm guessing I've probably saved 50k by waiting thus far.

Hmmm,$850X18 months = $15,300.So, in order to have saved 50k, on a down 10% market, I guess you're saying you're looking for houses in the $650,000 range. Hmmm, $2000/month for mortgage/taxes HOA???I think your math still blows.

850x18 = 15.3k in rent~2000x18 = 36k in mortgage/HOA/taxes on a 350k townhouse.That's ~ 21k in net savings.Additionally, 350k townhouses in my general vacinity have fallen ~ 10%, so say 35k in savings there.35k + 21K in net savings = > 50kWhere the #### did you get a 650k mortage and only 15k in total savings?

sorry, the 21k in net savings doesn't fly with me. You didn't save anything there, you just delayed spending it. The 15k is gone.

Actually, wifey and I paid off ~ 37K in debts the past 15 months by putting 2400 a month towards "paying off debt early". So that net savings is real, whether it flys w/ you or not.

No equity whatsover.

"equity"???? How do you gain equity when your house is declining in value faster than the pittance that goes to principle in the first couple of years?

 

[Chadstroma]

still at it, eh tommy?how long have you been talking about buying house? add up how much rent you have paid in that time frame. see if it's more than the price difference you're seeing in the houses you want. now add in the interest & other tax savings the house would have given you. how's it add up?

$850 a month rent, probably been waiting a year and a half (~18 months).In order to own a similar place, my mortgage + taxes and HOA would be over $2000 a month. The San Diego market as a whole is down ~ 10% since I've been waiting.I'm guessing I've probably saved 50k by waiting thus far.

Hmmm,$850X18 months = $15,300.So, in order to have saved 50k, on a down 10% market, I guess you're saying you're looking for houses in the $650,000 range. Hmmm, $2000/month for mortgage/taxes HOA???I think your math still blows.

850x18 = 15.3k in rent~2000x18 = 36k in mortgage/HOA/taxes on a 350k townhouse.That's ~ 21k in net savings.Additionally, 350k townhouses in my general vacinity have fallen ~ 10%, so say 35k in savings there.35k + 21K in net savings = > 50kWhere the #### did you get a 650k mortage and only 15k in total savings?

You failed to also enter in the tax deduction of interest.

 

[tommyGunZ]

still at it, eh tommy?how long have you been talking about buying house? add up how much rent you have paid in that time frame. see if it's more than the price difference you're seeing in the houses you want. now add in the interest & other tax savings the house would have given you. how's it add up?

$850 a month rent, probably been waiting a year and a half (~18 months).In order to own a similar place, my mortgage + taxes and HOA would be over $2000 a month. The San Diego market as a whole is down ~ 10% since I've been waiting.I'm guessing I've probably saved 50k by waiting thus far.

Hmmm,$850X18 months = $15,300.So, in order to have saved 50k, on a down 10% market, I guess you're saying you're looking for houses in the $650,000 range. Hmmm, $2000/month for mortgage/taxes HOA???I think your math still blows.

850x18 = 15.3k in rent~2000x18 = 36k in mortgage/HOA/taxes on a 350k townhouse.That's ~ 21k in net savings.Additionally, 350k townhouses in my general vacinity have fallen ~ 10%, so say 35k in savings there.35k + 21K in net savings = > 50kWhere the #### did you get a 650k mortage and only 15k in total savings?

sorry, the 21k in net savings doesn't fly with me. You didn't save anything there, you just delayed spending it. The 15k is gone. No equity whatsover.

this is my point. you gave someone else 15 thousand dollars that you will never see again. you are also not factoring in your tax savings. i just got my interest statement on my maui condo today. 11 months of interest(bought in feb 06) on a 380K loan fixed @ 6.125 is 19K. not a bad write off.

I am factoring in the tax savings. The 2k per month I threw out there for the 350k townhouse includes the mortgage break. With tax on a 350k property at ~ 300 per month, HOA at ~ 250 per month, and a 30/yr fixed 6.25% loan on 350k being ~ 2100 per month, I figured ~ 2650 total payment, and knocked off 650 for the mortgage break to arrive at the 2k per month estimate.What am I missing?

 

[MelvinTScupper]

still at it, eh tommy?how long have you been talking about buying house? add up how much rent you have paid in that time frame. see if it's more than the price difference you're seeing in the houses you want. now add in the interest & other tax savings the house would have given you. how's it add up?

$850 a month rent, probably been waiting a year and a half (~18 months).In order to own a similar place, my mortgage + taxes and HOA would be over $2000 a month. The San Diego market as a whole is down ~ 10% since I've been waiting.I'm guessing I've probably saved 50k by waiting thus far.

Hmmm,$850X18 months = $15,300.So, in order to have saved 50k, on a down 10% market, I guess you're saying you're looking for houses in the $650,000 range. Hmmm, $2000/month for mortgage/taxes HOA???I think your math still blows.

850x18 = 15.3k in rent~2000x18 = 36k in mortgage/HOA/taxes on a 350k townhouse.That's ~ 21k in net savings.Additionally, 350k townhouses in my general vacinity have fallen ~ 10%, so say 35k in savings there.35k + 21K in net savings = > 50kWhere the #### did you get a 650k mortage and only 15k in total savings?

sorry, the 21k in net savings doesn't fly with me. You didn't save anything there, you just delayed spending it. The 15k is gone.

Actually, wifey and I paid off ~ 37K in debts the past 15 months by putting 2400 a month towards "paying off debt early". So that net savings is real, whether it flys w/ you or not.

No equity whatsover.

"equity"???? How do you gain equity when your house is declining in value faster than the pittance that goes to principle in the first couple of years?

The only net savings you got was the lost interest you would have accrued on the 37k. If you pay 24k in mortgage interest, that's a gain of 6000k after writing it off (assuming you're in the 28% tax bracket.)Don't play the genius card here, TG, you don't have one.

 

[DA RAIDERS]

tommy,

do you think that the house you eventually buy will go up in value?

 

[MelvinTScupper]

I'm willing to give him that if his ACTUAL condo that he wants to buy is down 35k, that he's saved 20k.

But counting it twice? Please.

 

[itriple]

I've been going to open houses around once a month for the past 4 years.

This past Sunday was by far the busiest I have ever seen it. Maybe it was due to the x-mas lull, but it certainly seems any sort of bottom has been reached in Wisconsin.

 

[tommyGunZ]

still at it, eh tommy?how long have you been talking about buying house? add up how much rent you have paid in that time frame. see if it's more than the price difference you're seeing in the houses you want. now add in the interest & other tax savings the house would have given you. how's it add up?

$850 a month rent, probably been waiting a year and a half (~18 months).In order to own a similar place, my mortgage + taxes and HOA would be over $2000 a month. The San Diego market as a whole is down ~ 10% since I've been waiting.I'm guessing I've probably saved 50k by waiting thus far.

Hmmm,$850X18 months = $15,300.So, in order to have saved 50k, on a down 10% market, I guess you're saying you're looking for houses in the $650,000 range. Hmmm, $2000/month for mortgage/taxes HOA???I think your math still blows.

850x18 = 15.3k in rent~2000x18 = 36k in mortgage/HOA/taxes on a 350k townhouse.That's ~ 21k in net savings.Additionally, 350k townhouses in my general vacinity have fallen ~ 10%, so say 35k in savings there.35k + 21K in net savings = > 50kWhere the #### did you get a 650k mortage and only 15k in total savings?

sorry, the 21k in net savings doesn't fly with me. You didn't save anything there, you just delayed spending it. The 15k is gone.

Actually, wifey and I paid off ~ 37K in debts the past 15 months by putting 2400 a month towards "paying off debt early". So that net savings is real, whether it flys w/ you or not.

No equity whatsover.

"equity"???? How do you gain equity when your house is declining in value faster than the pittance that goes to principle in the first couple of years?

The only net savings you got was the lost interest you would have accrued on the 37k. If you pay 24k in mortgage interest, that's a gain of 6000k after writing it off (assuming you're in the 28% tax bracket.)Don't play the genius card here, TG, you don't have one.

Never pretended to have a smart card gb.

 

[Chadstroma]

still at it, eh tommy?how long have you been talking about buying house? add up how much rent you have paid in that time frame. see if it's more than the price difference you're seeing in the houses you want. now add in the interest & other tax savings the house would have given you. how's it add up?

$850 a month rent, probably been waiting a year and a half (~18 months).In order to own a similar place, my mortgage + taxes and HOA would be over $2000 a month. The San Diego market as a whole is down ~ 10% since I've been waiting.I'm guessing I've probably saved 50k by waiting thus far.

Hmmm,$850X18 months = $15,300.So, in order to have saved 50k, on a down 10% market, I guess you're saying you're looking for houses in the $650,000 range. Hmmm, $2000/month for mortgage/taxes HOA???I think your math still blows.

850x18 = 15.3k in rent~2000x18 = 36k in mortgage/HOA/taxes on a 350k townhouse.That's ~ 21k in net savings.Additionally, 350k townhouses in my general vacinity have fallen ~ 10%, so say 35k in savings there.35k + 21K in net savings = > 50kWhere the #### did you get a 650k mortage and only 15k in total savings?

sorry, the 21k in net savings doesn't fly with me. You didn't save anything there, you just delayed spending it. The 15k is gone. No equity whatsover.

this is my point. you gave someone else 15 thousand dollars that you will never see again. you are also not factoring in your tax savings. i just got my interest statement on my maui condo today. 11 months of interest(bought in feb 06) on a 380K loan fixed @ 6.125 is 19K. not a bad write off.

I am factoring in the tax savings. The 2k per month I threw out there for the 350k townhouse includes the mortgage break. With tax on a 350k property at ~ 300 per month, HOA at ~ 250 per month, and a 30/yr fixed 6.25% loan on 350k being ~ 2100 per month, I figured ~ 2650 total payment, and knocked off 650 for the mortgage break to arrive at the 2k per month estimate.What am I missing?

Howabout figuring in the eventual rising of interest rates. The fact rates are as low as they are now and have been for as long as they have been is something I think too many people take for granted. This is very much below the historical average. Just throwing that out there.

 

[Chadstroma]

still at it, eh tommy?how long have you been talking about buying house? add up how much rent you have paid in that time frame. see if it's more than the price difference you're seeing in the houses you want. now add in the interest & other tax savings the house would have given you. how's it add up?

$850 a month rent, probably been waiting a year and a half (~18 months).In order to own a similar place, my mortgage + taxes and HOA would be over $2000 a month. The San Diego market as a whole is down ~ 10% since I've been waiting.I'm guessing I've probably saved 50k by waiting thus far.

Hmmm,$850X18 months = $15,300.So, in order to have saved 50k, on a down 10% market, I guess you're saying you're looking for houses in the $650,000 range. Hmmm, $2000/month for mortgage/taxes HOA???I think your math still blows.

850x18 = 15.3k in rent~2000x18 = 36k in mortgage/HOA/taxes on a 350k townhouse.That's ~ 21k in net savings.Additionally, 350k townhouses in my general vacinity have fallen ~ 10%, so say 35k in savings there.35k + 21K in net savings = > 50kWhere the #### did you get a 650k mortage and only 15k in total savings?

sorry, the 21k in net savings doesn't fly with me. You didn't save anything there, you just delayed spending it. The 15k is gone. No equity whatsover.

this is my point. you gave someone else 15 thousand dollars that you will never see again. you are also not factoring in your tax savings. i just got my interest statement on my maui condo today. 11 months of interest(bought in feb 06) on a 380K loan fixed @ 6.125 is 19K. not a bad write off.

I am factoring in the tax savings. The 2k per month I threw out there for the 350k townhouse includes the mortgage break. With tax on a 350k property at ~ 300 per month, HOA at ~ 250 per month, and a 30/yr fixed 6.25% loan on 350k being ~ 2100 per month, I figured ~ 2650 total payment, and knocked off 650 for the mortgage break to arrive at the 2k per month estimate.What am I missing?

Howabout figuring in the eventual rising of interest rates. The fact rates are as low as they are now and have been for as long as they have been is something I think too many people take for granted. This is very much below the historical average. Just throwing that out there.

 

[tommyGunZ]

still at it, eh tommy?how long have you been talking about buying house? add up how much rent you have paid in that time frame. see if it's more than the price difference you're seeing in the houses you want. now add in the interest & other tax savings the house would have given you. how's it add up?

$850 a month rent, probably been waiting a year and a half (~18 months).In order to own a similar place, my mortgage + taxes and HOA would be over $2000 a month. The San Diego market as a whole is down ~ 10% since I've been waiting.I'm guessing I've probably saved 50k by waiting thus far.

Hmmm,$850X18 months = $15,300.So, in order to have saved 50k, on a down 10% market, I guess you're saying you're looking for houses in the $650,000 range. Hmmm, $2000/month for mortgage/taxes HOA???I think your math still blows.

850x18 = 15.3k in rent~2000x18 = 36k in mortgage/HOA/taxes on a 350k townhouse.That's ~ 21k in net savings.Additionally, 350k townhouses in my general vacinity have fallen ~ 10%, so say 35k in savings there.35k + 21K in net savings = > 50kWhere the #### did you get a 650k mortage and only 15k in total savings?

sorry, the 21k in net savings doesn't fly with me. You didn't save anything there, you just delayed spending it. The 15k is gone. No equity whatsover.

this is my point. you gave someone else 15 thousand dollars that you will never see again. you are also not factoring in your tax savings. i just got my interest statement on my maui condo today. 11 months of interest(bought in feb 06) on a 380K loan fixed @ 6.125 is 19K. not a bad write off.

I am factoring in the tax savings. The 2k per month I threw out there for the 350k townhouse includes the mortgage break. With tax on a 350k property at ~ 300 per month, HOA at ~ 250 per month, and a 30/yr fixed 6.25% loan on 350k being ~ 2100 per month, I figured ~ 2650 total payment, and knocked off 650 for the mortgage break to arrive at the 2k per month estimate.What am I missing?

Howabout figuring in the eventual rising of interest rates. The fact rates are as low as they are now and have been for as long as they have been is something I think too many people take for granted. This is very much below the historical average. Just throwing that out there.

Great point, and another factor I haven't included in my look back over the past 15 months. I think interest rates are actually slightly down from 15 months ago, if I'm not mistaken.

 

[Gambino]

Is the condo market in SD worse than the single family home market? In Atlanta condos generally don't appreciate very well except for the most desirable areas.

 

[MelvinTScupper]

Great point, and another factor I haven't included in my look back over the past 15 months. I think interest rates are actually slightly down from 15 months ago, if I'm not mistaken.

http://www.bankrate.com/brm/graphs/graph_t...&prodtype=Mrates across the country averaged 6.42% on a 30 fixed non-jumbo compared with approx 5.2% 18 months ago.

 

[tommyGunZ]

tommy,do you think that the house you eventually buy will go up in value?

Definitely. We've just seen the greatest RE run up in San Diego history, and every historic indicator screams that housing is way, way overpriced right now. Eventually the market will reach an equilibrium, and things will stabilize.It's all a gamble. I've been waiting for a little over a year now, and will jump in the market when I think the market has stabilized and mortgages are at least in the vacinity of rents. Right now, I see no reason to buy a place that I can rent for 1/2 price even after the tax break.

 

[DA RAIDERS]

there are only 2 times that the value of your house matters. when you buy it & when you sell it. that's why the 15K in rent is a shame. you will never see that $ again.

if you had bought in 1988 and suffered thru the worst decline in recent memory. where your house could have fallen considerably below what you bought it for. & you still had said house. would it have been worth it?

 

[greedygoat]

South FL checking in. Link

Home price drops ease in Broward, offering glimmer of hope for sellers

By Paul Owers

South Florida Sun-Sentinel

Posted January 26 2007

Broward County's beleaguered housing market showed slight improvement at the end of 2006, giving some hope that the worst of the yearlong slump might be over.

The median price of an existing home last month was $367,600, only a slight drop from the $369,000 in December 2005, the Florida Association of Realtors said Thursday. There were 618 sales, a 7 percent drop from 666 in December 2005.

While certainly not stellar, those figures are better than what many people had expected after sales remained slow throughout the year and prices started dropping in the summer and continued through the fall.

West Palm Beach housing analyst Brad Hunter said he sees a glimmer of hope for frustrated sellers.

"We're not out of the woods yet," he said. "But we're starting to see some signs of a return to equilibrium very slowly."

Mike Larson, an analyst with Weiss Research in Jupiter, isn't as optimistic.

Interest rates are creeping up, and he expects the inventory of homes to rise as frustrated sellers who took their properties off the market late last year try again this spring.

"Sellers shouldn't expect sunshine and roses in 2007," Larson said. "If you're a buyer, I expect you'll be in the driver's seat, and you should negotiate like it."

Analysts agree that it will take months to sell all the properties on the market. Broward now has 35,362 homes and condominiums for sale, more than double the number from this time last year, according to Keyes Co. Realtors.

For 2006, the median price for an existing home in Broward was $367,800, up 2 percent or $6,700 from 2005's $361,100. The median means half the homes sold for more, half for less.

Sales fell 26 percent last year, putting the county in the middle of the pack with other metropolitan areas statewide. The condo market remained uncertain as sales for the year declined sharply but prices rose.

After a five-year boom, Broward's housing market faded last year, as short-term investors left the market. Sellers who were accustomed to multiple full-price offers and fast deals waited weeks or months just for someone to look at their homes.

Sellers resorted to offering cars, cruises, bonuses and other perks to buyers and their agents, often to no avail. Some desperate sellers held auctions, while others inquired about swapping homes.

Sherrie Nemetz of Plantation has been trying to sell her four-bedroom home for nearly a year. She finally fielded her first offer, and it was for more than $100,000 less than the $449,900 listing price.

She has reduced the price and switched agents. Her next goal: trying to improve how the house shows on the Internet.

"There are just so many houses on the market," Nemetz said. "If your house isn't marketed correctly, there's no incentive for people to look at it."

But Mike Pappas, president of Keyes, said he expects sales to pick up as buyers try to beat looming interest-rate hikes.

What's more, Florida legislators decided to pass a measure that's expected to lower Floridians' property insurance costs. Gov. Charlie Crist signed the bill Thursday.

"That definitely brings some stability and a calmness to the market," Pappas said.

As the market sagged in 2006, foreclosures became a major concern.

Residents stretched to buy homes and struggled to keep up with rising property taxes and insurance premiums, leading to a rise in mortgage defaults.

Broward had one foreclosure for every 35 households in 2006, which ranks ninth out of the nation's top 100 metropolitan areas, RealtyTrac of Irvine, Calif., said in a report released Thursday.

The county had more than 21,000 foreclosures last year, up more than 55 percent from 2005.

RealtyTrac figures include properties in pre-foreclosure, the point when a lender files a notice of intention to take back the property. Many of those homeowners resolve their debts before losing their homes.

"I think we'll probably see more people falling behind in 2007," said Louis Spagnuolo, a senior mortgage banker with Home 123 in Boca Raton.

For 2006, in neighboring Palm Beach County, sales of existing homes dropped 37 percent, the state's second-largest decline after Naples. The county's median price dipped 1 percent to $384,700.

Miami-Dade County prices rose 7 percent last year to $375,800, but sales declined 21 percent.

Statewide, there were 180,037 existing home sales last year, down 28 percent from 2005. The median price of $248,300 was up 6 percent.

Nationwide, sales of existing homes were down 0.8 percent last month, a bigger decline than had been expected, the National Association of Realtors said. For the year, sales fell by 8.4 percent, the biggest annual decline since 1982.

 

[tommyGunZ]

there are only 2 times that the value of your house matters. when you buy it & when you sell it. that's why the 15K in rent is a shame. you will never see that $ again. if you had bought in 1988 and suffered thru the worst decline in recent memory. where your house could have fallen considerably below what you bought it for. & you still had said house. would it have been worth it?

Not if you could have rented the same house for 4-5 years and bought it for 1/2 price in 1992.

 

[John Mamula]

there are only 2 times that the value of your house matters. when you buy it & when you sell it. that's why the 15K in rent is a shame. you will never see that $ again. if you had bought in 1988 and suffered thru the worst decline in recent memory. where your house could have fallen considerably below what you bought it for. & you still had said house. would it have been worth it?

Not if you could have rented the same house for 4-5 years and bought it for 1/2 price in 1992.

you're missing the boat on this one. sure good market timing helps, but the point is that even if you buy at the top, over the long run you will do very well having your house as an investment, especially when you consider the $$ you get to write off.

 

[Chadstroma]

tommy,do you think that the house you eventually buy will go up in value?

Definitely. We've just seen the greatest RE run up in San Diego history, and every historic indicator screams that housing is way, way overpriced right now. Eventually the market will reach an equilibrium, and things will stabilize.It's all a gamble. I've been waiting for a little over a year now, and will jump in the market when I think the market has stabilized and mortgages are at least in the vacinity of rents. Right now, I see no reason to buy a place that I can rent for 1/2 price even after the tax break.

Just as long as you are not trying to trick yourself in that you can time the market perfectly. The market in SD will likely continue to correct for a bit longer but once the bad loans bleed off, amatuer investors continue to stay our of the market and/or leave the market, and demand gets perked up after the 'fear factor' drops then you will see appreciation again. Likely in a rate that will outstrip any potential 'loss' of buying now in short order. However, all that said, the condo market (townhomes clumped in with them) is likely going to have continued issues for a bit longer after the SFR fully recovers.

 

[Chadstroma]

there are only 2 times that the value of your house matters. when you buy it & when you sell it. that's why the 15K in rent is a shame. you will never see that $ again. if you had bought in 1988 and suffered thru the worst decline in recent memory. where your house could have fallen considerably below what you bought it for. & you still had said house. would it have been worth it?

Agreed 110%

 

[MelvinTScupper]

there are only 2 times that the value of your house matters. when you buy it & when you sell it. that's why the 15K in rent is a shame. you will never see that $ again. if you had bought in 1988 and suffered thru the worst decline in recent memory. where your house could have fallen considerably below what you bought it for. & you still had said house. would it have been worth it?

Not if you could have rented the same house for 4-5 years and bought it for 1/2 price in 1992.

Quick tip315,000 at 6.4% = monthly payment of: $1970 (of which $290+ is principal)350,000 at 5.2% = monthly payment of: $1929 (of which $405+ is principal) So, over the life of your 30 year loan, you'll pay $341,879 on the 5.2% loan, and $394,323 on the 6.4% loan.See what I mean?Not only will you pay more for your house MONTHLY by waiting, but you'll also pay another $50k if you pay it off as per the mortgage.This money saving tip is brought to you by $cupper Enterprises™

 

[tommyGunZ]

there are only 2 times that the value of your house matters. when you buy it & when you sell it. that's why the 15K in rent is a shame. you will never see that $ again. if you had bought in 1988 and suffered thru the worst decline in recent memory. where your house could have fallen considerably below what you bought it for. & you still had said house. would it have been worth it?

Not if you could have rented the same house for 4-5 years and bought it for 1/2 price in 1992.

you're missing the boat on this one. sure good market timing helps, but the point is that even if you buy at the top, over the long run you will do very well having your house as an investment, especially when you consider the $$ you get to write off.

Even at the top of the top, after a market boom has sent an asset to values never seen before or supported by fundamentals?Buying an affordable home in a stable market is one thing. Buying a home in a market like San Diego, Miami, Boston, etc. at this time is a gamble, IMO.

 

[MelvinTScupper]

there are only 2 times that the value of your house matters. when you buy it & when you sell it. that's why the 15K in rent is a shame. you will never see that $ again. if you had bought in 1988 and suffered thru the worst decline in recent memory. where your house could have fallen considerably below what you bought it for. & you still had said house. would it have been worth it?

Not if you could have rented the same house for 4-5 years and bought it for 1/2 price in 1992.

you're missing the boat on this one. sure good market timing helps, but the point is that even if you buy at the top, over the long run you will do very well having your house as an investment, especially when you consider the $$ you get to write off.

Even at the top of the top, after a market boom has sent an asset to values never seen before or supported by fundamentals?Buying an affordable home in a stable market is one thing. Buying a home in a market like San Diego, Miami, Boston, etc. at this time is a gamble, IMO.

And if you look at the example I just typed for you, based on ACTUAL loans and rates, you'd see that by gambling, you've lost in 3 ways (so far)1. You'll pay more each month, and over the long term2. You've pissed $15,000 down the drain on rent, plus lost the $350+X15 months in principle. That's 20k.3. You still don't have a house.

 

[Joe T]

Anyone else think that when TgunZ actually decides to get into the RE market that it is probably a good time to get out?

 

[Joe T]

there are only 2 times that the value of your house matters. when you buy it & when you sell it. that's why the 15K in rent is a shame. you will never see that $ again. if you had bought in 1988 and suffered thru the worst decline in recent memory. where your house could have fallen considerably below what you bought it for. & you still had said house. would it have been worth it?

One thing that does annoy me somewhat is that people act like your interest on you home is completely tax deductable. Well, that's not exactly true.So let's say TGunz "threw away" 15K in rent for the year. He could have bought a house and say had 19K in interest payments. Since you lose the standard deduction, TGunz would be throwing away about $11K in interest for the year.So the difference in buying and having the tax deduction is actually pretty small. If the property did fall in value, TGunz actually came out ahead by not buying.

 

[MelvinTScupper]

there are only 2 times that the value of your house matters. when you buy it & when you sell it. that's why the 15K in rent is a shame. you will never see that $ again. if you had bought in 1988 and suffered thru the worst decline in recent memory. where your house could have fallen considerably below what you bought it for. & you still had said house. would it have been worth it?

One thing that does annoy me somewhat is that people act like your interest on you home is completely tax deductable. Well, that's not exactly true.So let's say TGunz "threw away" 15K in rent for the year. He could have bought a house and say had 19K in interest payments. Since you lose the standard deduction, TGunz would be throwing away about $11K in interest for the year.So the difference in buying and having the tax deduction is actually pretty small. If the property did fall in value, TGunz actually came out ahead by not buying.

Unless the rates went up, like they did. Reading down?

 

[tommyGunZ]

there are only 2 times that the value of your house matters. when you buy it & when you sell it. that's why the 15K in rent is a shame. you will never see that $ again. if you had bought in 1988 and suffered thru the worst decline in recent memory. where your house could have fallen considerably below what you bought it for. & you still had said house. would it have been worth it?

Not if you could have rented the same house for 4-5 years and bought it for 1/2 price in 1992.

you're missing the boat on this one. sure good market timing helps, but the point is that even if you buy at the top, over the long run you will do very well having your house as an investment, especially when you consider the $$ you get to write off.

Even at the top of the top, after a market boom has sent an asset to values never seen before or supported by fundamentals?Buying an affordable home in a stable market is one thing. Buying a home in a market like San Diego, Miami, Boston, etc. at this time is a gamble, IMO.

And if you look at the example I just typed for you, based on ACTUAL loans and rates, you'd see that by gambling, you've lost in 3 ways (so far)1. You'll pay more each month, and over the long term2. You've pissed $15,000 down the drain on rent, plus lost the $350+X15 months in principle. That's 20k.3. You still don't have a house.

1. Obviously I don't intend on living in a 2bd/2bt townhouse for 30yrs, so your example above figuring out 30 yrs in payments isn't applicable. 2. $15k pissed away on rent = 15k pissed away on mortgage interest after the deduction. 3. You don't have a house either if you owe 350k on a home worth 315k.

 

[Joe T]

there are only 2 times that the value of your house matters. when you buy it & when you sell it. that's why the 15K in rent is a shame. you will never see that $ again. if you had bought in 1988 and suffered thru the worst decline in recent memory. where your house could have fallen considerably below what you bought it for. & you still had said house. would it have been worth it?

One thing that does annoy me somewhat is that people act like your interest on you home is completely tax deductable. Well, that's not exactly true.So let's say TGunz "threw away" 15K in rent for the year. He could have bought a house and say had 19K in interest payments. Since you lose the standard deduction, TGunz would be throwing away about $11K in interest for the year.So the difference in buying and having the tax deduction is actually pretty small. If the property did fall in value, TGunz actually came out ahead by not buying.

Unless the rates went up, like they did. Reading down?

we were posting at the same time. I will give you that Scupper Enterprises made some good points.My counter without thinking about it very long would be that rates are VERY unpredictable and with Tgunz luck, had he bought 18 months ago, rates likely would have gone down.

 

[MelvinTScupper]

there are only 2 times that the value of your house matters. when you buy it & when you sell it. that's why the 15K in rent is a shame. you will never see that $ again. if you had bought in 1988 and suffered thru the worst decline in recent memory. where your house could have fallen considerably below what you bought it for. & you still had said house. would it have been worth it?

Not if you could have rented the same house for 4-5 years and bought it for 1/2 price in 1992.

you're missing the boat on this one. sure good market timing helps, but the point is that even if you buy at the top, over the long run you will do very well having your house as an investment, especially when you consider the $$ you get to write off.

Even at the top of the top, after a market boom has sent an asset to values never seen before or supported by fundamentals?Buying an affordable home in a stable market is one thing. Buying a home in a market like San Diego, Miami, Boston, etc. at this time is a gamble, IMO.

And if you look at the example I just typed for you, based on ACTUAL loans and rates, you'd see that by gambling, you've lost in 3 ways (so far)1. You'll pay more each month, and over the long term2. You've pissed $15,000 down the drain on rent, plus lost the $350+X15 months in principle. That's 20k.3. You still don't have a house.

1. Obviously I don't intend on living in a 2bd/2bt townhouse for 30yrs, so your example above figuring out 30 yrs in payments isn't applicable. 2. $15k pissed away on rent = 15k pissed away on mortgage interest after the deduction. 3. You don't have a house either if you owe 350k on a home worth 315k.

1. The argument gets worse for you, unless rates go back to historic lows again (hint: they probably won't)2. Like I said, nearly 15% of each payment is principal. Unlike rent, it's possible to get that back, even in just a flat market.3. I didn't say "OWN" a house. How many home improvements have you done to your rental unit? oVVning >>>>>>>> renting

 

[MelvinTScupper]

My counter without thinking about it very long would be that rates are VERY unpredictable and with Tgunz luck, had he bought 18 months ago, rates likely would have gone down.

Hmmm, you've got me on this one.

 

[CGRdrJoe]

I wish we had a picture of Gunz in front of his keyboard right now, I would pay money to see him typing with his foot in his mouth.

 

[DA RAIDERS]

there are only 2 times that the value of your house matters. when you buy it & when you sell it. that's why the 15K in rent is a shame. you will never see that $ again. if you had bought in 1988 and suffered thru the worst decline in recent memory. where your house could have fallen considerably below what you bought it for. & you still had said house. would it have been worth it?

Not if you could have rented the same house for 4-5 years and bought it for 1/2 price in 1992.

Quick tip315,000 at 6.4% = monthly payment of: $1970 (of which $290+ is principal)350,000 at 5.2% = monthly payment of: $1929 (of which $405+ is principal) So, over the life of your 30 year loan, you'll pay $341,879 on the 5.2% loan, and $394,323 on the 6.4% loan.See what I mean?Not only will you pay more for your house MONTHLY by waiting, but you'll also pay another $50k if you pay it off as per the mortgage.This money saving tip is brought to you by $cupper Enterprises™

plus, if the 350k loan is anything more than 80% of the total price your interest rate just went up .75% to 1.5%

 

[BassNBrew]

While you guys are kicking Gunz around, why don't you factor in the costs to purchase and sell. For someone in his age category, the odds of him not relocating or knocking up his chick are pretty slim. Probably should factor in the cost of repairs also.

 

[MelvinTScupper]

While you guys are kicking Gunz around, why don't you factor in the costs to purchase and sell. For someone in his age category, the odds of him not relocating or knocking up his chick are pretty slim. Probably should factor in the cost of repairs also.

I got no problem with him waiting. In fact, his paying off $35k+ in debt is setting him up for a much more stable financial life when he DOES pull the trigger.However:1) him not knowing the rates are up over a point from 18 months ago, coupled with his2) inability to see that he's going to make higher payments on a lower loan amountmakes me get sick of the"I've saved about $50,000 by not buying"

 

[tommyGunZ]

there are only 2 times that the value of your house matters. when you buy it & when you sell it. that's why the 15K in rent is a shame. you will never see that $ again. if you had bought in 1988 and suffered thru the worst decline in recent memory. where your house could have fallen considerably below what you bought it for. & you still had said house. would it have been worth it?

Not if you could have rented the same house for 4-5 years and bought it for 1/2 price in 1992.

you're missing the boat on this one. sure good market timing helps, but the point is that even if you buy at the top, over the long run you will do very well having your house as an investment, especially when you consider the $$ you get to write off.

Even at the top of the top, after a market boom has sent an asset to values never seen before or supported by fundamentals?Buying an affordable home in a stable market is one thing. Buying a home in a market like San Diego, Miami, Boston, etc. at this time is a gamble, IMO.

And if you look at the example I just typed for you, based on ACTUAL loans and rates, you'd see that by gambling, you've lost in 3 ways (so far)1. You'll pay more each month, and over the long term2. You've pissed $15,000 down the drain on rent, plus lost the $350+X15 months in principle. That's 20k.3. You still don't have a house.

1. Obviously I don't intend on living in a 2bd/2bt townhouse for 30yrs, so your example above figuring out 30 yrs in payments isn't applicable. 2. $15k pissed away on rent = 15k pissed away on mortgage interest after the deduction. 3. You don't have a house either if you owe 350k on a home worth 315k.

1. The argument gets worse for you, unless rates go back to historic lows again (hint: they probably won't)2. Like I said, nearly 15% of each payment is principal. Unlike rent, it's possible to get that back, even in just a flat market.3. I didn't say "OWN" a house. How many home improvements have you done to your rental unit? oVVning >>>>>>>> renting

1. How? Higher interest rates mean more of a mortgage deduction in the short term. 2. The market is not flat right now.3. Home improvements/maintenance = $$$. Not sure how that's financially advantageous.

 

[BassNBrew]

While you guys are kicking Gunz around, why don't you factor in the costs to purchase and sell. For someone in his age category, the odds of him not relocating or knocking up his chick are pretty slim. Probably should factor in the cost of repairs also.

I got no problem with him waiting. In fact, his paying off $35k+ in debt is setting him up for a much more stable financial life when he DOES pull the trigger.However:1) him not knowing the rates are up over a point from 18 months ago, coupled with his2) inability to see that he's going to make higher payments on a lower loan amountmakes me get sick of the"I've saved about $50,000 by not buying"

Just thought of another thing for the Gunz model that works against him. He's probably already itemizing deductions...gambling losses.

 

[MelvinTScupper]

there are only 2 times that the value of your house matters. when you buy it & when you sell it. that's why the 15K in rent is a shame. you will never see that $ again. if you had bought in 1988 and suffered thru the worst decline in recent memory. where your house could have fallen considerably below what you bought it for. & you still had said house. would it have been worth it?

Not if you could have rented the same house for 4-5 years and bought it for 1/2 price in 1992.

you're missing the boat on this one. sure good market timing helps, but the point is that even if you buy at the top, over the long run you will do very well having your house as an investment, especially when you consider the $$ you get to write off.

Even at the top of the top, after a market boom has sent an asset to values never seen before or supported by fundamentals?Buying an affordable home in a stable market is one thing. Buying a home in a market like San Diego, Miami, Boston, etc. at this time is a gamble, IMO.

And if you look at the example I just typed for you, based on ACTUAL loans and rates, you'd see that by gambling, you've lost in 3 ways (so far)1. You'll pay more each month, and over the long term2. You've pissed $15,000 down the drain on rent, plus lost the $350+X15 months in principle. That's 20k.3. You still don't have a house.

1. Obviously I don't intend on living in a 2bd/2bt townhouse for 30yrs, so your example above figuring out 30 yrs in payments isn't applicable. 2. $15k pissed away on rent = 15k pissed away on mortgage interest after the deduction. 3. You don't have a house either if you owe 350k on a home worth 315k.

1. The argument gets worse for you, unless rates go back to historic lows again (hint: they probably won't)2. Like I said, nearly 15% of each payment is principal. Unlike rent, it's possible to get that back, even in just a flat market.3. I didn't say "OWN" a house. How many home improvements have you done to your rental unit? oVVning >>>>>>>> renting

1. How? Higher interest rates mean more of a mortgage deduction in the short term. 2. The market is not flat right now.3. Home improvements/maintenance = $$$. Not sure how that's financially advantageous.

1. More of a mortgage dedection means you're paying that much more each month. Having the deduction is nice, but it may price you out of the market if they keep going up.2. DID YOU NOT READ THAT YOU'RE IN WORSE FINANCIAL SHAPE GIVEN THE ACTUALS HERE?!?!?!3. True, if you HAVE to work on the house, that's not good. But living in a rental means you live with what they choose.

 

[tommyGunZ]

Quick tip315,000 at 6.4% = monthly payment of: $1970 (of which $290+ is principal)350,000 at 5.2% = monthly payment of: $1929 (of which $405+ is principal) So, over the life of your 30 year loan, you'll pay $341,879 on the 5.2% loan, and $394,323 on the 6.4% loan.See what I mean?Not only will you pay more for your house MONTHLY by waiting, but you'll also pay another $50k if you pay it off as per the mortgage.This money saving tip is brought to you by $cupper Enterprises™

Under this scenerio, which you categorize as "much worse off", here are the numbers if I were to sell in 5 years for 315k.$2460 in additional mortgage payments over the 5 years with the 315k purchase.~ $6900 LESS in principal paid off over the 5 years with the 315k purchase.At time of sale: initial purchase price of 315k, 17.5K in principle paid off, so 297.5k loan due on a 315k sale. At time of sale: initial purchase price of 350k, 24.3k in principle paid off, so 325.7k loan due on a 315k sale.

 

[MelvinTScupper]

Quick tip315,000 at 6.4% = monthly payment of: $1970 (of which $290+ is principal)350,000 at 5.2% = monthly payment of: $1929 (of which $405+ is principal) So, over the life of your 30 year loan, you'll pay $341,879 on the 5.2% loan, and $394,323 on the 6.4% loan.See what I mean?Not only will you pay more for your house MONTHLY by waiting, but you'll also pay another $50k if you pay it off as per the mortgage.This money saving tip is brought to you by $cupper Enterprises™

Under this scenerio, which you categorize as "much worse off", here are the numbers if I were to sell in 5 years for 315k.$2460 in additional mortgage payments over the 5 years with the 315k purchase.~ $6900 LESS in principal paid off over the 5 years with the 315k purchase.At time of sale: initial purchase price of 315k, 17.5K in principle paid off, so 297.5k loan due on a 315k sale. At time of sale: initial purchase price of 350k, 24.3k in principle paid off, so 325.7k loan due on a 315k sale.

Jesus. I'm done with you. You haven't saved ####, it will cost you more per month to buy now, and you're out the 15k in rent.If you can't see this, you're a moron.