Henry Ford
Footballguy
And as an aside I'm not the one asking for laws to be changed. The law is on my side. You're the one arguing for that. Oops.
Your argument has been 190 posts of logical preciousness in the service of radically personal empiricism. I wish you well in your future endeavors.Well, I also discuss this with adults. A lot more than kids, because I tend to represent adults much more often. And here's what adults say looking back, virtually universally:The bathroom/locker room experience was probably the worst part of high school. It may not have been something I protested, or something I talked about, but it was absolutely the most shameful, embarrassing, horrifying part of growing up. It's still something I think about in bouts of depression, and anxiety, and fear, and shame, and it makes me sick to my stomach. And I won't live like that anymore, now, as an adult.Well, I have talked to three in the past two days, none of which feel discriminated against.Embarrassed and discriminated against, pretty much universallyOk, and how do they feel about having to use the "wrong" bathroom in school?Guessing 15 transgender kids between 12-18huh?I'm going to go with an even 15, but it could be a few less or a whole lot more. I haven't always been as good about being open to gender identity issues.
I imagine maybe a very tiny bit, but NONE of them have any plans to raise any kind of #### about having to use the "wrong" bathrooms.
The levels of embarrassement and feelings of being discriminated against are rather small. They may be there, but to what level??
BUt hey, let's just embarrass EVERYONE then
I appreciate that you have experience with transgender youth. Please also appreciate that you have experience with transgender youth who have access to healthcare related to their concerns. And that I experience transgender youth who do not.
Page 2 or 3 when I said I think it's a reasonable solution?But it's not reasonable to the person who's being discriminated against. So that complicates things.So where is your solution of "a private bathroom". That is obviously the best answer. The worst possible answer is allowing penises in the girls room and Ginas in the mens room.
And I am not talking about adults, at all. That is an entirely different conversation.
And you also, sir. May your gibberish foofaraw lead to a plethora of prosperity.Your argument has been 190 posts of logical preciousness in the service of radically personal empiricism. I wish you well in your future endeavors.Well, I also discuss this with adults. A lot more than kids, because I tend to represent adults much more often. And here's what adults say looking back, virtually universally:The bathroom/locker room experience was probably the worst part of high school. It may not have been something I protested, or something I talked about, but it was absolutely the most shameful, embarrassing, horrifying part of growing up. It's still something I think about in bouts of depression, and anxiety, and fear, and shame, and it makes me sick to my stomach. And I won't live like that anymore, now, as an adult.Well, I have talked to three in the past two days, none of which feel discriminated against.Embarrassed and discriminated against, pretty much universallyOk, and how do they feel about having to use the "wrong" bathroom in school?Guessing 15 transgender kids between 12-18huh?I'm going to go with an even 15, but it could be a few less or a whole lot more. I haven't always been as good about being open to gender identity issues.
I imagine maybe a very tiny bit, but NONE of them have any plans to raise any kind of #### about having to use the "wrong" bathrooms.
The levels of embarrassement and feelings of being discriminated against are rather small. They may be there, but to what level??
BUt hey, let's just embarrass EVERYONE then
I appreciate that you have experience with transgender youth. Please also appreciate that you have experience with transgender youth who have access to healthcare related to their concerns. And that I experience transgender youth who do not.
Then there is just no pleasing them according to you. If making things equal for all is "discriminating against them", then there is no solution.Page 2 or 3 when I said I think it's a reasonable solution?But it's not reasonable to the person who's being discriminated against. So that complicates things.So where is your solution of "a private bathroom". That is obviously the best answer. The worst possible answer is allowing penises in the girls room and Ginas in the mens room.
And I am not talking about adults, at all. That is an entirely different conversation.
You probably remember how well "separate but equal" facilities work under the law and why.It's only unreasonable if you disagree that this person fits the definition of the gender role "girl."Then there is just no pleasing them according to you. If making things equal for all is "discriminating against them", then there is no solution.Page 2 or 3 when I said I think it's a reasonable solution?But it's not reasonable to the person who's being discriminated against. So that complicates things.So where is your solution of "a private bathroom". That is obviously the best answer. The worst possible answer is allowing penises in the girls room and Ginas in the mens room.
And I am not talking about adults, at all. That is an entirely different conversation.
I am not talking about transgender bathrooms. I am talking about a private bathroom that anyone can use. It's very simple if schools can afford it.
Again, for the 100th time, it is unreasonable to humiliate and anger EVERYONE by allowing this. It's not a rational decision, at all.
And again, if your "gender role" definition is going to trump "scientific definition", and if your "please a few transgenders" trumps "humiliating everyone else", then no, we won't agree, ever, about any of this.You probably remember how well "separate but equal" facilities work under the law and why.It's only unreasonable if you disagree that this person fits the definition of the gender role "girl."Then there is just no pleasing them according to you. If making things equal for all is "discriminating against them", then there is no solution.Page 2 or 3 when I said I think it's a reasonable solution?But it's not reasonable to the person who's being discriminated against. So that complicates things.So where is your solution of "a private bathroom". That is obviously the best answer. The worst possible answer is allowing penises in the girls room and Ginas in the mens room.
And I am not talking about adults, at all. That is an entirely different conversation.
I am not talking about transgender bathrooms. I am talking about a private bathroom that anyone can use. It's very simple if schools can afford it.
Again, for the 100th time, it is unreasonable to humiliate and anger EVERYONE by allowing this. It's not a rational decision, at all.
Why would it be more or less wrong to hit a transgender male than a biological male?And again, if your "gender role" definition is going to trump "scientific definition", and if your "please a few transgenders" trumps "humiliating everyone else", then no, we won't agree, ever, about any of this.You probably remember how well "separate but equal" facilities work under the law and why.It's only unreasonable if you disagree that this person fits the definition of the gender role "girl."Then there is just no pleasing them according to you. If making things equal for all is "discriminating against them", then there is no solution.Page 2 or 3 when I said I think it's a reasonable solution?But it's not reasonable to the person who's being discriminated against. So that complicates things.So where is your solution of "a private bathroom". That is obviously the best answer. The worst possible answer is allowing penises in the girls room and Ginas in the mens room.
And I am not talking about adults, at all. That is an entirely different conversation.
I am not talking about transgender bathrooms. I am talking about a private bathroom that anyone can use. It's very simple if schools can afford it.
Again, for the 100th time, it is unreasonable to humiliate and anger EVERYONE by allowing this. It's not a rational decision, at all.
And again, if all the bathrooms are private, that is not "separate but equal". It is "equal".
Side question and just for fun to hear your answer. Is it any more or less right or wrong to hit a transgender male than it is to hit a regular male?
To beat a dead horse, bathroom use is based on gender, not sex.The funny thing is, a transgender feels embarrassed because they have to go to the bathroom with "the opposite sex"...........................think about that for a minute as it relates to everyone else being subjected to members of the opposite sex using their bathroom.
The "gender roles" of the transgender are pretty irrelevant to the girls in the bathroom who have a dude with a weiner in there, regardless of what he thinks he is or was meant to be, or lives his life as, or which roles he takes on.
I guess they need to put some urinals in the female restrooms thenTo beat a dead horse, bathroom use is based on gender, not sex.The funny thing is, a transgender feels embarrassed because they have to go to the bathroom with "the opposite sex"...........................think about that for a minute as it relates to everyone else being subjected to members of the opposite sex using their bathroom.
The "gender roles" of the transgender are pretty irrelevant to the girls in the bathroom who have a dude with a weiner in there, regardless of what he thinks he is or was meant to be, or lives his life as, or which roles he takes on.
I am the one asking the question.Why would it be more or less wrong to hit a transgender male than a biological male?Side question and just for fun to hear your answer. Is it any more or less right or wrong to hit a transgender male than it is to hit a regular male?
Why? Is there a usual female gender role that includes standing up to urinate? And where is the intersex bathroom? For people who are not biologically male or female?I guess they need to put some urinals in the female restrooms thenTo beat a dead horse, bathroom use is based on gender, not sex.The funny thing is, a transgender feels embarrassed because they have to go to the bathroom with "the opposite sex"...........................think about that for a minute as it relates to everyone else being subjected to members of the opposite sex using their bathroom.
The "gender roles" of the transgender are pretty irrelevant to the girls in the bathroom who have a dude with a weiner in there, regardless of what he thinks he is or was meant to be, or lives his life as, or which roles he takes on.
Clearly not, outside of a few isolated places who recently changed some rulesTo beat a dead horse, bathroom use is based on gender, not sex.The funny thing is, a transgender feels embarrassed because they have to go to the bathroom with "the opposite sex"...........................think about that for a minute as it relates to everyone else being subjected to members of the opposite sex using their bathroom.
The "gender roles" of the transgender are pretty irrelevant to the girls in the bathroom who have a dude with a weiner in there, regardless of what he thinks he is or was meant to be, or lives his life as, or which roles he takes on.
I think you got that backwards. Cause ya know, if chicks with ##### are in the womens bathroom, some alterations will need to be made.Why? Is there a usual female gender role that includes standing up to urinate?And where is the intersex bathroom? For people who are not biologically male or female?I guess they need to put some urinals in the female restrooms thenTo beat a dead horse, bathroom use is based on gender, not sex.The funny thing is, a transgender feels embarrassed because they have to go to the bathroom with "the opposite sex"...........................think about that for a minute as it relates to everyone else being subjected to members of the opposite sex using their bathroom.
The "gender roles" of the transgender are pretty irrelevant to the girls in the bathroom who have a dude with a weiner in there, regardless of what he thinks he is or was meant to be, or lives his life as, or which roles he takes on.
Well, yeah. Assuming the two Jims are equal in fighting ability, physical strength, and provocation, no difference.I am the one asking the question.Why would it be more or less wrong to hit a transgender male than a biological male?Side question and just for fun to hear your answer. Is it any more or less right or wrong to hit a transgender male than it is to hit a regular male?
If I get in a fight and punch Jim, is it the same as if I get in a fight and punch Jim who was born Jane who has no weiner.
I don't have an answer, hence the question.
You're a very degrading, insulting person toward people who are transgender for someone who works with transgender youth.And no, no alterations have to be made.I think you got that backwards. Cause ya know, if chicks with ##### are in the womens bathroom, some alterations will need to be made.Why? Is there a usual female gender role that includes standing up to urinate?And where is the intersex bathroom? For people who are not biologically male or female?I guess they need to put some urinals in the female restrooms thenTo beat a dead horse, bathroom use is based on gender, not sex.The funny thing is, a transgender feels embarrassed because they have to go to the bathroom with "the opposite sex"...........................think about that for a minute as it relates to everyone else being subjected to members of the opposite sex using their bathroom.
The "gender roles" of the transgender are pretty irrelevant to the girls in the bathroom who have a dude with a weiner in there, regardless of what he thinks he is or was meant to be, or lives his life as, or which roles he takes on.
Why would you have to remove urinals just because not everyone uses them?I think you got that backwards. Cause ya know, if chicks with ##### are in the womens bathroom, some alterations will need to be made.Why? Is there a usual female gender role that includes standing up to urinate?And where is the intersex bathroom? For people who are not biologically male or female?I guess they need to put some urinals in the female restrooms thenTo beat a dead horse, bathroom use is based on gender, not sex.The funny thing is, a transgender feels embarrassed because they have to go to the bathroom with "the opposite sex"...........................think about that for a minute as it relates to everyone else being subjected to members of the opposite sex using their bathroom.
The "gender roles" of the transgender are pretty irrelevant to the girls in the bathroom who have a dude with a weiner in there, regardless of what he thinks he is or was meant to be, or lives his life as, or which roles he takes on.
And if dudes with no wangs are in the mens room, they may need to make some alterations there also.
No more urinals I guess.
Simple physics. For the same reason current women's bathrooms do not have urinals. Very obvious.Why would you have to remove urinals just because not everyone uses them?No more urinals I guess.
Not sure if it is worse to hit a cripple or a woman. Weird example.Well, yeah. Assuming the two Jims are equal in fighting ability, physical strength, and provocation, no difference.I don't have an answer, hence the question.Side question and just for fun to hear your answer. Is it any more or less right or wrong to hit a transgender male than it is to hit a regular male?
How about this one: you punch Jim, a 120-lb 5'2" computer programmer with club feet who bench presses 45 lbs. or Rhonda Roussey. Is either of those more okay than the other?
Your persuasiveness knows bounds.Well, yeah. Assuming the two Jims are equal in fighting ability, physical strength, and provocation, no difference.I am the one asking the question.Why would it be more or less wrong to hit a transgender male than a biological male?Side question and just for fun to hear your answer. Is it any more or less right or wrong to hit a transgender male than it is to hit a regular male?
If I get in a fight and punch Jim, is it the same as if I get in a fight and punch Jim who was born Jane who has no weiner.
I don't have an answer, hence the question.
How about this one: you punch Jim, a 120-lb 5'2" computer programmer with club feet who bench presses 45 lbs. or Rhonda Roussey. Is either of those more okay than the other?
Eh. These questions get easier with age.Not sure if it is worse to hit a cripple or a woman. Weird example.Well, yeah. Assuming the two Jims are equal in fighting ability, physical strength, and provocation, no difference.I don't have an answer, hence the question.Side question and just for fun to hear your answer. Is it any more or less right or wrong to hit a transgender male than it is to hit a regular male?
How about this one: you punch Jim, a 120-lb 5'2" computer programmer with club feet who bench presses 45 lbs. or Rhonda Roussey. Is either of those more okay than the other?
I have a question. Do transgendered teens with a penis masturbate regularly?Eh. These questions get easier with age.
I don't understand. How can you argue how it is no big deal for girls to change clothes in a room with somebody they think is a boy and has a penis, yet it is a tormenting experience that causes bouts of depression for life for somebody that thinks they are a girl to have to change in front of boys with penises?Well, I also discuss this with adults. A lot more than kids, because I tend to represent adults much more often. And here's what adults say looking back, virtually universally:The bathroom/locker room experience was probably the worst part of high school. It may not have been something I protested, or something I talked about, but it was absolutely the most shameful, embarrassing, horrifying part of growing up. It's still something I think about in bouts of depression, and anxiety, and fear, and shame, and it makes me sick to my stomach. And I won't live like that anymore, now, as an adult.Well, I have talked to three in the past two days, none of which feel discriminated against.Embarrassed and discriminated against, pretty much universallyOk, and how do they feel about having to use the "wrong" bathroom in school?Guessing 15 transgender kids between 12-18huh?I'm going to go with an even 15, but it could be a few less or a whole lot more. I haven't always been as good about being open to gender identity issues.
I imagine maybe a very tiny bit, but NONE of them have any plans to raise any kind of #### about having to use the "wrong" bathrooms.
The levels of embarrassement and feelings of being discriminated against are rather small. They may be there, but to what level??
BUt hey, let's just embarrass EVERYONE then
I appreciate that you have experience with transgender youth. Please also appreciate that you have experience with transgender youth who have access to healthcare related to their concerns. And that I experience transgender youth who do not.
As long as it's only for a few short seconds, should be no big deal.if looking a penises is no big deal, someone, in the spirit of scientific discovery, should walk into a high school girl's locker room naked.. report back
Are you assuming Transgender males are automatically weak? It's wrong to assault people regardless. A mutual fray would be different.Well, yeah. Assuming the two Jims are equal in fighting ability, physical strength, and provocation, no difference.How about this one: you punch Jim, a 120-lb 5'2" computer programmer with club feet who bench presses 45 lbs. or Rhonda Roussey. Is either of those more okay than the other?I am the one asking the question.Why would it be more or less wrong to hit a transgender male than a biological male?Side question and just for fun to hear your answer. Is it any more or less right or wrong to hit a transgender male than it is to hit a regular male?
If I get in a fight and punch Jim, is it the same as if I get in a fight and punch Jim who was born Jane who has no weiner.
I don't have an answer, hence the question.
For reasonable people it might not be.As long as it's only for a few short seconds, should be no big deal.if looking a penises is no big deal, someone, in the spirit of scientific discovery, should walk into a high school girl's locker room naked.. report back
Unless I'm missing something, the sole purpose of a urinal is to save water.I think you got that backwards. Cause ya know, if chicks with ##### are in the womens bathroom, some alterations will need to be made.Why? Is there a usual female gender role that includes standing up to urinate?And where is the intersex bathroom? For people who are not biologically male or female?I guess they need to put some urinals in the female restrooms thenTo beat a dead horse, bathroom use is based on gender, not sex.The funny thing is, a transgender feels embarrassed because they have to go to the bathroom with "the opposite sex"...........................think about that for a minute as it relates to everyone else being subjected to members of the opposite sex using their bathroom.
The "gender roles" of the transgender are pretty irrelevant to the girls in the bathroom who have a dude with a weiner in there, regardless of what he thinks he is or was meant to be, or lives his life as, or which roles he takes on.
And if dudes with no wangs are in the mens room, they may need to make some alterations there also.
No more urinals I guess.
Actually thing brings up an interesting question. Does the transgender ex-female still get her period? If so you are correct in regards to the alteration. Sanitary napkin dispensers will now have to be included in the men,s room.I think you got that backwards. Cause ya know, if chicks with ##### are in the womens bathroom, some alterations will need to be made.Why? Is there a usual female gender role that includes standing up to urinate?And where is the intersex bathroom? For people who are not biologically male or female?I guess they need to put some urinals in the female restrooms thenTo beat a dead horse, bathroom use is based on gender, not sex.The funny thing is, a transgender feels embarrassed because they have to go to the bathroom with "the opposite sex"...........................think about that for a minute as it relates to everyone else being subjected to members of the opposite sex using their bathroom.
The "gender roles" of the transgender are pretty irrelevant to the girls in the bathroom who have a dude with a weiner in there, regardless of what he thinks he is or was meant to be, or lives his life as, or which roles he takes on.
And if dudes with no wangs are in the mens room, they may need to make some alterations there also.
No more urinals I guess.
I always do a full Buffalo Bill tuck when I read one of your posts.The funny thing is, a transgender feels embarrassed because they have to go to the bathroom with "the opposite sex"...........................think about that for a minute as it relates to everyone else being subjected to members of the opposite sex using their bathroom.
The "gender roles" of the transgender are pretty irrelevant to the girls in the bathroom who have a dude with a weiner in there, regardless of what he thinks he is or was meant to be, or lives his life as, or which roles he takes on.
Sorry about your luck....................I'm kidding, I'm kidding.I disagree with a lot of what Henry Ford is posting, but I just can't bring myself to care who I'm sharing a restroom with, and I'm not really convinced that it's all that reasonable for other people to care. I have no idea who's in that stall or what sex they are, and they don't know anything about me either. And if I'm standing at a urinal and some lady walks in, so what? It's not like my #### is flapping in the wind for all to behold or that I'm showing it off or anything. We could all bathrooms over to unisex tomorrow and it wouldn't matter to me except that I like being able to get in and out of the mens room without women slowing down traffic.
I'm at that age where I personally wouldn't even care if we had unisex locker rooms, but that's one where I can see why a completely reasonable person might feel differently, and I think I'm probably the outlier there.
You are missing something. They are faster. You don't have to touch them to lift up a seat. They are cheaper to maintain. They don't need a floor drain.Unless I'm missing something, the sole purpose of a urinal is to save water.I think you got that backwards. Cause ya know, if chicks with ##### are in the womens bathroom, some alterations will need to be made.Why? Is there a usual female gender role that includes standing up to urinate?And where is the intersex bathroom? For people who are not biologically male or female?I guess they need to put some urinals in the female restrooms thenTo beat a dead horse, bathroom use is based on gender, not sex.The funny thing is, a transgender feels embarrassed because they have to go to the bathroom with "the opposite sex"...........................think about that for a minute as it relates to everyone else being subjected to members of the opposite sex using their bathroom.
The "gender roles" of the transgender are pretty irrelevant to the girls in the bathroom who have a dude with a weiner in there, regardless of what he thinks he is or was meant to be, or lives his life as, or which roles he takes on.
And if dudes with no wangs are in the mens room, they may need to make some alterations there also.
No more urinals I guess.
Why do you hate America?No. There's actually a constitutional right to delineate and separate bathrooms at the local level, without the federal interference of the 14th through the 5th. It should be that simple.
I honestly don't know a single transgender person. Then again, maybe I actually do know a few, but I just don't know it. A few of my women colleagues look a little off. In the interest of raising awareness and becoming more sensitive to trans issues, I think I'll ask a few of them if they're biologically male. I'll let you know what I learn.Sometimes I feel like I'm the only one without a handful of trans friends....
1. So again, the school is going to have to implement a "go wherever you want" philosophy. If you want to use the men's room you can, but we'll also allow you to use the women's. I mean, it's either this or a potential lawsuit, correct?1. No, they are telling her that she can use the women's restroom, because that is what she has presented as her request. No one has told her she can't use the men's room.1. So it's a no win case for the school systems even if they give this student want she wants. They are telling her to use the women's room, but that's a "reasonable chance there is a sex discrimination suit". They have to implement a "go wherever you want" philosophy. Right? They say use the boys room, that's gender discrimination. They say use the girls room, that's sex discrimination. It's literally no win for them.1. If the school allows her to use whatever restroom she wants to use based on her gender, she's not being discriminated against. If they tell her "no, you must use the women's room, not the men's room" because she presents herself as a woman, there is a reasonable chance there's a sex discrimination suit in there.
2. Gender "trumps" sex in this situation because we don't have things set up based on sex, we have them set up by gender. For instance, there is no intersex bathroom. If you get to "choose" in any situation, then the idea of bathrooms based on defined characteristics is stupid, and we can agree that it's based on how you identify for at least some people. In which case, it should be expanded to anyone who has a strong, reasonable, cognizable interest in that choice.
3. Yup. "Third Gender" is a way some people do this. For convenience sake, many of those people use the restroom that fits with their birth sex. Some use whatever's closest. Some use whatever keeps them from being next to/around the people they're attracted to while using the restroom. But it's a real problem for people in that community sometimes. In fact, some countries and areas recognize the "third gender" and have a facility for those people. Signage is an issue. Lots of people hate this one, but it's in use in some countries.
3. So why is it easier to base things on gender than sex when there is a "third gender"? Are there more "third gender" folks than "neither sex" folks?
3. Because testing someone's hormone levels, chromosomes, sexual organs, etc. every time they want to go to the bathroom is very time consuming.
What about dudes "self identifying" as a woman and competing in the WNBA?
You do know we are talking about a locker room and not just using the bathroom?IvanKaramazov said:I disagree with a lot of what Henry Ford is posting, but I just can't bring myself to care who I'm sharing a restroom with, and I'm not really convinced that it's all that reasonable for other people to care. I have no idea who's in that stall or what sex they are, and they don't know anything about me either. And if I'm standing at a urinal and some lady walks in, so what? It's not like my #### is flapping in the wind for all to behold or that I'm showing it off or anything. We could all bathrooms over to unisex tomorrow and it wouldn't matter to me except that I like being able to get in and out of the mens room without women slowing down traffic.
I'm at that age where I personally wouldn't even care if we had unisex locker rooms, but that's one where I can see why a completely reasonable person might feel differently, and I think I'm probably the outlier there.
Seems logical to me.IvanKaramazov said:I honestly don't know a single transgender person. Then again, maybe I actually do know a few, but I just don't know it. A few of my women colleagues look a little off. In the interest of raising awareness and becoming more sensitive to trans issues, I think I'll ask a few of them if they're biologically male. I'll let you know what I learn.Steve Tasker said:Sometimes I feel like I'm the only one without a handful of trans friends....
This is the perspective from a mature adult... Think about it from a high school girls point of view.IvanKaramazov said:I disagree with a lot of what Henry Ford is posting, but I just can't bring myself to care who I'm sharing a restroom with, and I'm not really convinced that it's all that reasonable for other people to care.
1. For a student who is biologically male and transgender female or biologically female and transgender male, the student would likely need to have the choice to use whichever restroom the student desires to use. Yes.matttyl said:1. So again, the school is going to have to implement a "go wherever you want" philosophy. If you want to use the men's room you can, but we'll also allow you to use the women's. I mean, it's either this or a potential lawsuit, correct?Henry Ford said:1. No, they are telling her that she can use the women's restroom, because that is what she has presented as her request. No one has told her she can't use the men's room.matttyl said:1. So it's a no win case for the school systems even if they give this student want she wants. They are telling her to use the women's room, but that's a "reasonable chance there is a sex discrimination suit". They have to implement a "go wherever you want" philosophy. Right? They say use the boys room, that's gender discrimination. They say use the girls room, that's sex discrimination. It's literally no win for them.Henry Ford said:1. If the school allows her to use whatever restroom she wants to use based on her gender, she's not being discriminated against. If they tell her "no, you must use the women's room, not the men's room" because she presents herself as a woman, there is a reasonable chance there's a sex discrimination suit in there.
2. Gender "trumps" sex in this situation because we don't have things set up based on sex, we have them set up by gender. For instance, there is no intersex bathroom. If you get to "choose" in any situation, then the idea of bathrooms based on defined characteristics is stupid, and we can agree that it's based on how you identify for at least some people. In which case, it should be expanded to anyone who has a strong, reasonable, cognizable interest in that choice.
3. Yup. "Third Gender" is a way some people do this. For convenience sake, many of those people use the restroom that fits with their birth sex. Some use whatever's closest. Some use whatever keeps them from being next to/around the people they're attracted to while using the restroom. But it's a real problem for people in that community sometimes. In fact, some countries and areas recognize the "third gender" and have a facility for those people. Signage is an issue. Lots of people hate this one, but it's in use in some countries.
3. So why is it easier to base things on gender than sex when there is a "third gender"? Are there more "third gender" folks than "neither sex" folks?
3. Because testing someone's hormone levels, chromosomes, sexual organs, etc. every time they want to go to the bathroom is very time consuming.
3. So is asking what gender you are to every person. No one's doing that currently, are they? So why would there all of a sudden be some bathroom cop checking IDs?
Do you think high schoolers are born with shame and awkwardness around naked-ness? Or do you think perhaps we indoctrinate them into it with things like separate locker rooms and the like?This is the perspective from a mature adult... Think about it from a high school girls point of view.IvanKaramazov said:I disagree with a lot of what Henry Ford is posting, but I just can't bring myself to care who I'm sharing a restroom with, and I'm not really convinced that it's all that reasonable for other people to care.
I think as parents we hide ourslelves from the kids seeing us because they should not see an adult naked. Having see your parents naked is about as awkward as it can get for a teenager. I think some of that is carried over to the locker room. Especially those that don't have sisters or lots of friends.Do you think high schoolers are born with shame and awkwardness around naked-ness? Or do you think perhaps we indoctrinate them into it with things like separate locker rooms and the like?This is the perspective from a mature adult... Think about it from a high school girls point of view.IvanKaramazov said:I disagree with a lot of what Henry Ford is posting, but I just can't bring myself to care who I'm sharing a restroom with, and I'm not really convinced that it's all that reasonable for other people to care.
Not sure where you're going with this... I think high school girls are at a stage in life where they understand nudity, and a group of them not wanting to share a locker room with someone born a boy is perfectly normal. This has nothing to do with what adults say and more to do with instinct.Do you think high schoolers are born with shame and awkwardness around naked-ness? Or do you think perhaps we indoctrinate them into it with things like separate locker rooms and the like?This is the perspective from a mature adult... Think about it from a high school girls point of view.IvanKaramazov said:I disagree with a lot of what Henry Ford is posting, but I just can't bring myself to care who I'm sharing a restroom with, and I'm not really convinced that it's all that reasonable for other people to care.