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Humanitarian crisis at US border (2 Viewers)

http://www.businessinsider.com/immigration-border-crisis-photos-2014-6

...The situation is rapidly becoming a "humanitarian crisis," in the words of President Barack Obama.

...
Surprised there is no thread on this
It's interesting that the WH's statement from Obama on this calls it a "Humanitarian Situation."

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2014/06/30/letter-president-efforts-address-humanitarian-situation-rio-grande-valle

Is this a "situation" or a "crisis"?

Any numbers on how long this has been going on and how many children have flooded the border recently? Estimated totals?

 
So, the most transparent administration in the history of the world won't let reporters in the holding areas? WTF? Is this Syria?

He doesn't want a photo op? Give me a break. He sure needed to send out that selfie at Mandela's funeral. What a joke if it wasn't so sad.

 
"undocumented" people allowed to fly commercial airline with no verifiable ID

http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-Texas/2014/07/11/Exclusive-TSA-Allowing-Illegals-to-Fly-Without-Verifiable-ID-Says-Border-Patrol-Union

“The National Border Patrol Council adamantly opposes the decision of DHS to release the illegal aliens who have been transported from the Rio Grande Valley Border Patrol Sector to other locations for processing. The lack of consequences has furthered this crisis and will only continue to do so. The fact that TSA is accepting the I-862 (Notice to Appear) as a form of identification and allowing illegal aliens to travel commercially shows just how little regard the federal government has for its own immigration laws.”
 
Busted Knuckles, to address just one of your points, about when they send money back to their own country: as Maurile Trembilay has pointed out many times, this is actually an economic positive for the US.
How so?
Long story short, and poorly explained...They do some work (economic benefit to U.S.), U.S. gives them green pieces of paper. They send green pieces of paper to another country. If those green pieces of paper aren't used to purchase anything here, the U.S. essentially got work for paper.

Personally, I don't buy it, but that's the theory.
What do you mean you don't buy it?
I mean, I don't buy the conclusion in the current global world. Those dollars can be used to buy oil on the world market, or converted to pesos/yen/pounds, or a thousand other things, all of which mean the U.S. isn't actually getting something (labor) for nothing (some green paper).
Huh? The US "got something" when the first transaction took place. Until those dollars are used to purchase something, the uS wins, regardless of where that dollar is spent.

 
$67k per kid seems like a lot, especially with no real solution.

To put it in perspective, the median household income for 2013 was $51k. At the 25% federal income tax bracket for $51k, each household is paying $12,750 in federal taxes. So it will take the entire federal taxes for over 5 households for an entire year to pay for every kid who crosses the border (based on this request).

Then there are the state and local taxes for the areas that these families settle or are shipped.

 
Busted Knuckles, to address just one of your points, about when they send money back to their own country: as Maurile Trembilay has pointed out many times, this is actually an economic positive for the US.
How so?
Long story short, and poorly explained...They do some work (economic benefit to U.S.), U.S. gives them green pieces of paper. They send green pieces of paper to another country. If those green pieces of paper aren't used to purchase anything here, the U.S. essentially got work for paper.

Personally, I don't buy it, but that's the theory.
What do you mean you don't buy it?
I mean, I don't buy the conclusion in the current global world. Those dollars can be used to buy oil on the world market, or converted to pesos/yen/pounds, or a thousand other things, all of which mean the U.S. isn't actually getting something (labor) for nothing (some green paper).
Huh? The US "got something" when the first transaction took place. Until those dollars are used to purchase something, the uS wins, regardless of where that dollar is spent.
This says it all

 
Wouldn't it be easier and cheaper just to colonize Central and parts of South America?

 
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Busted Knuckles, to address just one of your points, about when they send money back to their own country: as Maurile Trembilay has pointed out many times, this is actually an economic positive for the US.
How so?
Long story short, and poorly explained...They do some work (economic benefit to U.S.), U.S. gives them green pieces of paper. They send green pieces of paper to another country. If those green pieces of paper aren't used to purchase anything here, the U.S. essentially got work for paper.

Personally, I don't buy it, but that's the theory.
What do you mean you don't buy it?
I mean, I don't buy the conclusion in the current global world. Those dollars can be used to buy oil on the world market, or converted to pesos/yen/pounds, or a thousand other things, all of which mean the U.S. isn't actually getting something (labor) for nothing (some green paper).
Huh? The US "got something" when the first transaction took place. Until those dollars are used to purchase something, the uS wins, regardless of where that dollar is spent.
This says it all
Hats pretty much the opposite of "says it all".

 
If these children could sneak across our borders, they would not be arriving AT our borders. This is not an issue of securing the borders further.

Also, since they did not sneak across the borders, they are not illegals. They have committed no crime.

Finally, this has NOTHING to do with President Obama or any American policy one way or another. It has everything to do with the crisis in Central America. No matter what we do or don't do, so long as that crisis exists these people will keep coming.

 
If these children could sneak across our borders, they would not be arriving AT our borders. This is not an issue of securing the borders further.

Also, since they did not sneak across the borders, they are not illegals. They have committed no crime.

Finally, this has NOTHING to do with President Obama or any American policy one way or another. It has everything to do with the crisis in Central America. No matter what we do or don't do, so long as that crisis exists these people will keep coming.
Huh? They most certainly are coming across the border and then turning themselves in. If they just come to a border entry point, we would deny them entry and that's that. The law about treating them humanely that Bush signed doesn't come into play until they're actually in the country.

 
If these children could sneak across our borders, they would not be arriving AT our borders. This is not an issue of securing the borders further.

Also, since they did not sneak across the borders, they are not illegals. They have committed no crime.

Finally, this has NOTHING to do with President Obama or any American policy one way or another. It has everything to do with the crisis in Central America. No matter what we do or don't do, so long as that crisis exists these people will keep coming.
Huh? They most certainly are coming across the border and then turning themselves in. If they just come to a border entry point, we would deny them entry and that's that. The law about treating them humanely that Bush signed doesn't come into play until they're actually in the country.
Theyre not coming across the border; they're coming TO the border and begging to be let in. (At least most of them are, from what I understand).
 
If these children could sneak across our borders, they would not be arriving AT our borders. This is not an issue of securing the borders further.

Also, since they did not sneak across the borders, they are not illegals. They have committed no crime.

Finally, this has NOTHING to do with President Obama or any American policy one way or another. It has everything to do with the crisis in Central America. No matter what we do or don't do, so long as that crisis exists these people will keep coming.
Huh? They most certainly are coming across the border and then turning themselves in. If they just come to a border entry point, we would deny them entry and that's that. The law about treating them humanely that Bush signed doesn't come into play until they're actually in the country.
Tim doesn't let facts get in the way of an opinion.

 
If these children could sneak across our borders, they would not be arriving AT our borders. This is not an issue of securing the borders further.

Also, since they did not sneak across the borders, they are not illegals. They have committed no crime.

Finally, this has NOTHING to do with President Obama or any American policy one way or another. It has everything to do with the crisis in Central America. No matter what we do or don't do, so long as that crisis exists these people will keep coming.
Huh? They most certainly are coming across the border and then turning themselves in. If they just come to a border entry point, we would deny them entry and that's that. The law about treating them humanely that Bush signed doesn't come into play until they're actually in the country.
Theyre not coming across the border; they're coming TO the border and begging to be let in. (At least most of them are, from what I understand).
Rock solid position

 
Is all of this correct?

  • The number of children coming over the Mexican border has gone from around 11,000 in 2010-11 or so to 52,000+ in just about a half of 2014. We are on pace for 100,000 kids coming in.
  • The US is not repatriating these children, they are staying here.
  • Obama will not send Nat. Guard or other troops down to seal the border. The president absolutely refuses to do this.
 
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Is all of this correct?

  • The number of children coming over the Mexican border has gone from around 11,000 in 2010-11 or so to 52,000+ in just about a half of 2014. We are on pace for 100,000 kids coming in.
  • The US is not repatriating these children, they are staying here.
  • Obama will not send Nat. Guard or other troops down to seal the border. The president absolutely refuses to do this.
Yes I believe it's correct.

As regards Obama's reasons, I don't believe you can "seal" the border without jeopardizing trade.

 
If these children could sneak across our borders, they would not be arriving AT our borders. This is not an issue of securing the borders further.

Also, since they did not sneak across the borders, they are not illegals. They have committed no crime.

Finally, this has NOTHING to do with President Obama or any American policy one way or another. It has everything to do with the crisis in Central America. No matter what we do or don't do, so long as that crisis exists these people will keep coming.
Huh? They most certainly are coming across the border and then turning themselves in. If they just come to a border entry point, we would deny them entry and that's that. The law about treating them humanely that Bush signed doesn't come into play until they're actually in the country.
Theyre not coming across the border; they're coming TO the border and begging to be let in. (At least most of them are, from what I understand).
The locations they are turning themselves in are within our border. That would seem rather obvious as turning themselves in on the Mexico side would be a bit odd. It's not like there is a giant red line in Texas and they are standing on it. They have to cross to turn themselves in.
 
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Is all of this correct?

  • The number of children coming over the Mexican border has gone from around 11,000 in 2010-11 or so to 52,000+ in just about a half of 2014. We are on pace for 100,000 kids coming in.
  • The US is not repatriating these children, they are staying here.
  • Obama will not send Nat. Guard or other troops down to seal the border. The president absolutely refuses to do this.
Yes I believe it's correct.

As regards Obama's reasons, I don't believe you can "seal" the border without jeopardizing trade.
Yes, but that's not what Obama says.

Presumably that is not his reason.

 
Clearly, these nations are doing nothing to solve their own problems, and I certainly want the US to avoid telling other nations how to handle business, but all this arguing isn't going to solve the problem.

 
I can't believe this is like a permanent thing. Surely the influx of children will slow back down. I mean, what parents really want their children to leave them? What children really want to leave their parents?

 
If these children could sneak across our borders, they would not be arriving AT our borders. This is not an issue of securing the borders further.

Also, since they did not sneak across the borders, they are not illegals. They have committed no crime.

Finally, this has NOTHING to do with President Obama or any American policy one way or another. It has everything to do with the crisis in Central America. No matter what we do or don't do, so long as that crisis exists these people will keep coming.
Huh? They most certainly are coming across the border and then turning themselves in. If they just come to a border entry point, we would deny them entry and that's that. The law about treating them humanely that Bush signed doesn't come into play until they're actually in the country.
Theyre not coming across the border; they're coming TO the border and begging to be let in. (At least most of them are, from what I understand).
Rock solid position
I can't get this scene out of my mind when I hear Tim starting to talk about immigration. :bag:

 
If these children could sneak across our borders, they would not be arriving AT our borders. This is not an issue of securing the borders further.

Also, since they did not sneak across the borders, they are not illegals. They have committed no crime.

Finally, this has NOTHING to do with President Obama or any American policy one way or another. It has everything to do with the crisis in Central America. No matter what we do or don't do, so long as that crisis exists these people will keep coming.
Huh? They most certainly are coming across the border and then turning themselves in. If they just come to a border entry point, we would deny them entry and that's that. The law about treating them humanely that Bush signed doesn't come into play until they're actually in the country.
Theyre not coming across the border; they're coming TO the border and begging to be let in. (At least most of them are, from what I understand).
Rock solid position
I can't get
As if!
 
Clearly, these nations are doing nothing to solve their own problems, and I certainly want the US to avoid telling other nations how to handle business, but all this arguing isn't going to solve the problem.
I agree with you! We may differ on our solutions, but we should all realize that the source of the problem is not here in the United States.
 
I can't believe this is like a permanent thing. Surely the influx of children will slow back down. I mean, what parents really want their children to leave them? What children really want to leave their parents?
It makes you think about what it means to come here. IMO, refugees from other countries make for the best of American citizens, because they want to be here so badly and are so grateful for the chance. History has consistently demonstrated this to be so. We should look at these children not as a burden but as an asset to our future.
 
Is all of this correct?

  • The number of children coming over the Mexican border has gone from around 11,000 in 2010-11 or so to 52,000+ in just about a half of 2014. We are on pace for 100,000 kids coming in.
  • The US is not repatriating these children, they are staying here.
  • Obama will not send Nat. Guard or other troops down to seal the border. The president absolutely refuses to do this.
Yes I believe it's correct.

As regards Obama's reasons, I don't believe you can "seal" the border without jeopardizing trade.
:doh:

 
I can't believe this is like a permanent thing. Surely the influx of children will slow back down. I mean, what parents really want their children to leave them? What children really want to leave their parents?
It makes you think about what it means to come here. IMO, refugees from other countries make for the best of American citizens, because they want to be here so badly and are so grateful for the chance. History has consistently demonstrated this to be so. We should look at these children not as a burden but as an asset to our future.
This Horatio Alger koolaid has to be schtick.
 
I can't believe this is like a permanent thing. Surely the influx of children will slow back down. I mean, what parents really want their children to leave them? What children really want to leave their parents?
It makes you think about what it means to come here. IMO, refugees from other countries make for the best of American citizens, because they want to be here so badly and are so grateful for the chance. History has consistently demonstrated this to be so. We should look at these children not as a burden but as an asset to our future.
This Horatio Alger koolaid has to be schtick.
It isn't, but thats the wrong analogy anyhow. They dont need to go from rags to riches to become good Americans. They simply need to grow up to become people who give us more value than what they take.
 
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I can't believe this is like a permanent thing. Surely the influx of children will slow back down. I mean, what parents really want their children to leave them? What children really want to leave their parents?
It makes you think about what it means to come here. IMO, refugees from other countries make for the best of American citizens, because they want to be here so badly and are so grateful for the chance. History has consistently demonstrated this to be so. We should look at these children not as a burden but as an asset to our future.
This Horatio Alger koolaid has to be schtick.
It isn't, but thats the wrong analogy anyhow. They dont need to go from rags to riches to become good Americans. They simply need to grow up to become people who give us more value than what they take.
Some will, some won't. We don't know if it will be a net positive until 40 years after the wave. But until then it will be a big strain on our system. A system that wasn't nearly as large 50 years ago.
 
I can't believe this is like a permanent thing. Surely the influx of children will slow back down. I mean, what parents really want their children to leave them? What children really want to leave their parents?
It makes you think about what it means to come here. IMO, refugees from other countries make for the best of American citizens, because they want to be here so badly and are so grateful for the chance. History has consistently demonstrated this to be so. We should look at these children not as a burden but as an asset to our future.
This Horatio Alger koolaid has to be schtick.
It isn't, but thats the wrong analogy anyhow. They dont need to go from rags to riches to become good Americans. They simply need to grow up to become people who give us more value than what they take.
Some will, some won't. We don't know if it will be a net positive until 40 years after the wave. But until then it will be a big strain on our system. A system that wasn't nearly as large 50 years ago.
I know you believe this. I respectfully disagree.
 
I can't believe this is like a permanent thing. Surely the influx of children will slow back down. I mean, what parents really want their children to leave them? What children really want to leave their parents?
It makes you think about what it means to come here. IMO, refugees from other countries make for the best of American citizens, because they want to be here so badly and are so grateful for the chance. History has consistently demonstrated this to be so. We should look at these children not as a burden but as an asset to our future.
Your shtick is magnificent, your ability to bait people while appearing to be a real person who sincerely believes the idiocy spewing from his keyboard. It is so effortless and you correctly put the words in the right order to make sentences even though you have no clue what the sentence actually means. I can't even comprehend your level of brilliance to be able to think through and issue and come up with the most wrong opinion to post in order to keep up your character of a typing mental patient, how do you do it? Day after day?

Bravo sir Bravo, I fully expect some day for you to reveal your true identity as a Pulitzer prize winning author who posted here daily to keep his fiction writing skills sharp.

 
Kids with no parents won't require social programs?
Of course they will. But I don't believe it's an especially heavy burden (perhaps for a specific community but not for us as a nation to absorb,) it's more like a good investment IMO.
You must have made a killing investing the Romanian Orphan market.

http://annikagudjonsson.blogspot.com/

You know, because according to you history has shown this to be so, tens of thousands of impoverished orphans in state care is a success story waiting to happen.

 
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I can't believe this is like a permanent thing. Surely the influx of children will slow back down. I mean, what parents really want their children to leave them? What children really want to leave their parents?
Once someone gets permission to stay they can gradually bring family back. A good friend of mine had almost his entire family brought back this way. It started with his dad and then one kid at a time, then mom, then grandparents, uncles, aunts. Took about a decade.

 
So, another tidbit that the MSM isn't covering is that the TSA was allowing llegals who had been released inside the U.S. with a notice to appear to fly on commercial airlines by simply showing their notice to appear as valid "I.D.". So if you're a citizen you have to show I.D. to fly but if you're an illegal just show an easily forgable document and you can fly, no questions asked. Thank god they changed that policy after being called out by patriotic border patrol agents and alternative media but sheesh, our government is a cluster and the MSM is just as bad ......

http://bpunion.org/

 
Clearly, these nations are doing nothing to solve their own problems, and I certainly want the US to avoid telling other nations how to handle business, but all this arguing isn't going to solve the problem.
I agree with you! We may differ on our solutions, but we should all realize that the source of the problem is not here in the United States.
Yeah, it was born in Kenya.

 
Its started here in Massachusetts.........

Here’s the Boston Globe yesterday:

Federal immigration officials acknowledged Friday that they increased the number of charter flights this year carrying immigrant detainees to Massachusetts.
The flights, which started in April to Hanscom Field and Logan Airport, have been shrouded in secrecy. Federal and state officials have portrayed the flights as routine, but others say the flights seemed unusual in a state far from the Southern border.
So it is “routine” to fly illegal aliens from the southern border to the northeast? Yeah, right. Even the Globe seems to have had trouble swallowing that one.

And here’s the Boston Herald today:

Illegal immigrants are being secretly flown to Massachusetts and kept in local lockups in an under-the-radar operation that has alarmed lawmen who are raising health and security concerns amid recent spikes in detainees coming up from Texas during the latest border crisis.

After weeks of denying an increase in flights to the Bay State, federal immigration officials finally admitted this weekend that four planes filled with detainees captured at the southern border have been flown to Hanscom and Logan International Airport since April as part of a “large-scale nationwide response” to the crisis.
 
If these children could sneak across our borders, they would not be arriving AT our borders. This is not an issue of securing the borders further.

Also, since they did not sneak across the borders, they are not illegals. They have committed no crime.

Finally, this has NOTHING to do with President Obama or any American policy one way or another. It has everything to do with the crisis in Central America. No matter what we do or don't do, so long as that crisis exists these people will keep coming.
Huh? They most certainly are coming across the border and then turning themselves in. If they just come to a border entry point, we would deny them entry and that's that. The law about treating them humanely that Bush signed doesn't come into play until they're actually in the country.
Theyre not coming across the border; they're coming TO the border and begging to be let in. (At least most of them are, from what I understand).
You're just flat wrong on this.

 
So, another tidbit that the MSM isn't covering is that the TSA was allowing llegals who had been released inside the U.S. with a notice to appear to fly on commercial airlines by simply showing their notice to appear as valid "I.D.". So if you're a citizen you have to show I.D. to fly but if you're an illegal just show an easily forgable document and you can fly, no questions asked. Thank god they changed that policy after being called out by patriotic border patrol agents and alternative media but sheesh, our government is a cluster and the MSM is just as bad ......

http://bpunion.org/
If this is true it's indefensible.
 
If these children could sneak across our borders, they would not be arriving AT our borders. This is not an issue of securing the borders further. Also, since they did not sneak across the borders, they are not illegals. They have committed no crime.

Finally, this has NOTHING to do with President Obama or any American policy one way or another. It has everything to do with the crisis in Central America. No matter what we do or don't do, so long as that crisis exists these people will keep coming.
Huh? They most certainly are coming across the border and then turning themselves in. If they just come to a border entry point, we would deny them entry and that's that. The law about treating them humanely that Bush signed doesn't come into play until they're actually in the country.
Theyre not coming across the border; they're coming TO the border and begging to be let in. (At least most of them are, from what I understand).
You're just flat wrong on this.
He often is wrong. :lmao:

 
I can't believe this is like a permanent thing. Surely the influx of children will slow back down. I mean, what parents really want their children to leave them? What children really want to leave their parents?
It makes you think about what it means to come here. IMO, refugees from other countries make for the best of American citizens, because they want to be here so badly and are so grateful for the chance. History has consistently demonstrated this to be so. We should look at these children not as a burden but as an asset to our future.
Your shtick is magnificent, your ability to bait people while appearing to be a real person who sincerely believes the idiocy spewing from his keyboard. It is so effortless and you correctly put the words in the right order to make sentences even though you have no clue what the sentence actually means. I can't even comprehend your level of brilliance to be able to think through and issue and come up with the most wrong opinion to post in order to keep up your character of a typing mental patient, how do you do it? Day after day? Bravo sir Bravo, I fully expect some day for you to reveal your true identity as a Pulitzer prize winning author who posted here daily to keep his fiction writing skills sharp.
It isn't shtick....he's obsessed with posting here.

 
Thank you Beaver Cleaver, for recognizing that it's not shtick.

Curious how you personally would solve this issue if you were in charge.

 
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If these children could sneak across our borders, they would not be arriving AT our borders. This is not an issue of securing the borders further. Also, since they did not sneak across the borders, they are not illegals. They have committed no crime.

Finally, this has NOTHING to do with President Obama or any American policy one way or another. It has everything to do with the crisis in Central America. No matter what we do or don't do, so long as that crisis exists these people will keep coming.
Huh? They most certainly are coming across the border and then turning themselves in. If they just come to a border entry point, we would deny them entry and that's that. The law about treating them humanely that Bush signed doesn't come into play until they're actually in the country.
Theyre not coming across the border; they're coming TO the border and begging to be let in. (At least most of them are, from what I understand).
You're just flat wrong on this.
He often is wrong. :lmao:
For me, my default judgment on a Tim post is that he's wrong. That's one reason I ask him for backing documentation frequently. He loves to make assertions he has never verified, just heard on some talk show. I suppose that's one way to form opinions. Just not mine.

 

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