I Have Officially Seen It All (1 Viewer)

[Knobs]

If the Pats won, they'd have given the Colts all the accolades for being the last undefeated team left standing. Instead, they screw the Colts and get a ton of game film on a likely Superbowl opponent that had to play them for realsies while they took notes. Another brilliant move by Belichick in preservation of the only 18-0 record in NFL history.

bostonfred has done some incredible work as of late. High quality shtick.

 

[Avery]

As a neutral observer, I see this in a slightly different way.

All Champions have a swagger and an arrogance that defines them. BB has an up close and personal view of this, based on the success that he has enjoyed with the Pats. Confidence is an elusive, fragile thing that is OFTEN, the slight difference in games that matter. Remember that the Pat's Super Bowl wins were all close games.

The Pats have not won a game on the road yet this year. They were being Smoked, on the road, against a team that they could meet in the Super Bowl. (If they are lucky to make it that far).

In my mind, yanking Brady when he did, in a game they had a 5% chance of winning (Agreed I'm picking that number out of my ###) shows his team that if you have no swagger, no confidence, we can NEVER win it ALL. It may not work, but to me, he was making a statement to his OWN team, in his OWN way.

No one can argue with his methodology in dealing with his own team. For all of the criticism he takes over any of the relevant issues, his success rate is something that ANY NFL owner would take. Motivation/Confidence may have been the difference in ANY of the Super Bowl wins the Pats have achieved.

Say what you will about BB, I don't think it's possible to say that he isn't in touch with his teams. Maybe it will work and maybe it won't, but I refuse to believe that it wasn't ALL calculated.

Tell me how Stupid I am for thinking this way.

Tampa doesn't count?

Wembley isn't exactly a hostile field, but technically it was a road game for everybody.

 

[David Dodds]

I just do not understand the mentality of not thinking you can come back when you have the offensive stars that New England has. Yes Brady was off his game. But he has Moss. and Welker. and Faulk. and is facing two inexperienced corners. Forget this whole we are down by 21 stuff. Let's try and get 1 TD fast. Had Brady connected with Moss deep on a TD and there was hypothetically 4:57 left, would you want the team to quit there down by two TDs. Momentum can change super fast. I can't think of why a good team should ever quit with 5+ minutes left to play. Some here disagree, but I doubt I will ever be convinced.

 

[None_More_Black]

As a neutral observer, I see this in a slightly different way.All Champions have a swagger and an arrogance that defines them. BB has an up close and personal view of this, based on the success that he has enjoyed with the Pats. Confidence is an elusive, fragile thing that is OFTEN, the slight difference in games that matter. Remember that the Pat's Super Bowl wins were all close games.The Pats have not won a game on the road yet this year. They were being Smoked, on the road, against a team that they could meet in the Super Bowl. (If they are lucky to make it that far).In my mind, yanking Brady when he did, in a game they had a 5% chance of winning (Agreed I'm picking that number out of my ###) shows his team that if you have no swagger, no confidence, we can NEVER win it ALL. It may not work, but to me, he was making a statement to his OWN team, in his OWN way.No one can argue with his methodology in dealing with his own team. For all of the criticism he takes over any of the relevant issues, his success rate is something that ANY NFL owner would take. Motivation/Confidence may have been the difference in ANY of the Super Bowl wins the Pats have achieved.Say what you will about BB, I don't think it's possible to say that he isn't in touch with his teams. Maybe it will work and maybe it won't, but I refuse to believe that it wasn't ALL calculated.Tell me how Stupid I am for thinking this way.

Brady was on the sideline complaining to BB about benching him and the rest of the starters. It's his decision as head coach, but the players did not like it.

 

[Avery]

I just do not understand the mentality of not thinking you can come back when you have the offensive stars that New England has. Yes Brady was off his game. But he has Moss. and Welker. and Faulk. and is facing two inexperienced corners. Forget this whole we are down by 21 stuff. Let's try and get 1 TD fast. Had Brady connected with Moss deep on a TD and there was hypothetically 4:57 left, would you want the team to quit there down by two TDs. Momentum can change super fast. I can't think of why a good team should ever quit with 5+ minutes left to play. Some here disagree, but I doubt I will ever be convinced.

To the people defending quitting with 5 minutes left, no one is saying a comeback was likely but you win 0% of the games you don't play and with 5 minutes left, Bellichek decided he didn't want to play anymore.

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

I just do not understand the mentality of not thinking you can come back when you have the offensive stars that New England has. Yes Brady was off his game. But he has Moss. and Welker. and Faulk. and is facing two inexperienced corners. Forget this whole we are down by 21 stuff. Let's try and get 1 TD fast. Had Brady connected with Moss deep on a TD and there was hypothetically 4:57 left, would you want the team to quit there down by two TDs. Momentum can change super fast. I can't think of why a good team should ever quit with 5+ minutes left to play. Some here disagree, but I doubt I will ever be convinced.

I guess the world will just have to live with that, then./thread

 

[Keysersoze666]

As a neutral observer, I see this in a slightly different way.

All Champions have a swagger and an arrogance that defines them. BB has an up close and personal view of this, based on the success that he has enjoyed with the Pats. Confidence is an elusive, fragile thing that is OFTEN, the slight difference in games that matter. Remember that the Pat's Super Bowl wins were all close games.

The Pats have not won a game on the road yet this year. They were being Smoked, on the road, against a team that they could meet in the Super Bowl. (If they are lucky to make it that far).

In my mind, yanking Brady when he did, in a game they had a 5% chance of winning (Agreed I'm picking that number out of my ###) shows his team that if you have no swagger, no confidence, we can NEVER win it ALL. It may not work, but to me, he was making a statement to his OWN team, in his OWN way.

No one can argue with his methodology in dealing with his own team. For all of the criticism he takes over any of the relevant issues, his success rate is something that ANY NFL owner would take. Motivation/Confidence may have been the difference in ANY of the Super Bowl wins the Pats have achieved.

Say what you will about BB, I don't think it's possible to say that he isn't in touch with his teams. Maybe it will work and maybe it won't, but I refuse to believe that it wasn't ALL calculated.

Tell me how Stupid I am for thinking this way.

Tampa doesn't count?

U got me, I forgot about that. Being a Packer fan, you would think I had more respect for the Tampa "home field advantage!"Hehe, good call, and I apologize for my own ignorance.

 

[Clinton]

Brady didn't look quite right but down 3 touchdowns with 2 timeouts, and those weapons, is something the Patriots could pull off.

Brady didn't look quite right but down 3 touchdowns with 2 timeouts, those weapons... and that defense... it's something the Patriots couldn't pull off.I don't care how good there offensive players are, that defense couldn't stop the Saints all game and they weren't about to in the last five minutes... and Belichick knew it.

 

[cvnpoka]

The shot of Brady and Bilicheck staring up at the scoreboard and tsk tsking. if you could caption the image of the thoughts going on in thier minds:Wow, a QB that is superior, and a coach that is also superior.They got

lol at thinking payton is superior to bb.

 

[BaBastage]

Anyone that thinks NE was going to come back from 38-17 with 5:00 left against a team undefeated for the season while on the road...lets be realistic here folks please.

Let me break this down a bit more. Are you saying Brady had no chance of scoring a TD on the next drive? Why not as someone else suggested just send Moss deep 4 plays. Maybe you get lucky. You fail to score quickly, then yes you can't win. But we are talking about 5 minutes left in the game. You have elite WRs and and elite QB. The Saints are playing two inexperienced corners. And you just throw in the towel? Add me to the list of comparing it to the younger brother who knocks over the chess board. Do you think Brady, Moss and Welker wanted to leave the field right there?and as others pointed out. Where was the sense of urgency on any drive in the second half? Why not use the no-huddle? For all the people that defended the 4th and 2 and quoting 70% success rates, benching those same players with 5+ minutes left is pathetic.Try and score fast. It's that simple. Go deep and play hurry up. Take chances. If you score quickly, reassess. If you turn the ball over, etc then it's an easy concede.

This, folks, is why David Dodds co-owns a Fantasy Football site and Belichick is a coach in the NFL.

And this post is why David Dodds co-owns a fantasy football sight and you just blabber in one.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Anyone that thinks NE was going to come back from 38-17 with 5:00 left against a team undefeated for the season while on the road...lets be realistic here folks please.

Let me break this down a bit more. Are you saying Brady had no chance of scoring a TD on the next drive? Why not as someone else suggested just send Moss deep 4 plays. Maybe you get lucky. You fail to score quickly, then yes you can't win. But we are talking about 5 minutes left in the game. You have elite WRs and and elite QB. The Saints are playing two inexperienced corners. And you just throw in the towel? Add me to the list of comparing it to the younger brother who knocks over the chess board. Do you think Brady, Moss and Welker wanted to leave the field right there?and as others pointed out. Where was the sense of urgency on any drive in the second half? Why not use the no-huddle? For all the people that defended the 4th and 2 and quoting 70% success rates, benching those same players with 5+ minutes left is pathetic.Try and score fast. It's that simple. Go deep and play hurry up. Take chances. If you score quickly, reassess. If you turn the ball over, etc then it's an easy concede.

This, folks, is why David Dodds co-owns a Fantasy Football site and Belichick is a coach in the NFL.

If Belichick was in charge here, he'd bring you on in week 18.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

I just do not understand the mentality of not thinking you can come back when you have the offensive stars that New England has. Yes Brady was off his game. But he has Moss. and Welker. and Faulk. and is facing two inexperienced corners. Forget this whole we are down by 21 stuff. Let's try and get 1 TD fast. Had Brady connected with Moss deep on a TD and there was hypothetically 4:57 left, would you want the team to quit there down by two TDs. Momentum can change super fast. I can't think of why a good team should ever quit with 5+ minutes left to play. Some here disagree, but I doubt I will ever be convinced.

Did you see Brady after he threw the pick...made no attempt to even try to move to the other side of the field to possibly make a tackle, and maybe he shouldn't anyways but he had his hands on his helmet and just looked dejected. The Saints were blanketing the Pats all night. If the Pats had simply gone 3 and out, gotten the ball back then maybe but the momentum was all NO, why risk the injuries? How many teams have erased a 21 point lead with 5 minutes to go in the 4th? I do remember Manning a few years back doing some magic with some late heroics against Tampa Bay on MNF I believe. The chances are very slim, I would say in the 1-2% range at best. Do you want to put all your chips in DD with a 1% chance? Or do you fold your hand and wait for something better later int he tourney? Maybe not the best analogy but your a poker player too and certainly you have a firm grasp on odds hence the name David Dodds

 

[datonn]

For the people defending this, where was the cutoff? Would you have been OK quitting down 21 with 8 minutes to go? Why risk injury to anyone? Should teams just concede when they get down 21 and not take the field at all. This would ensure they can't get hurt. Cowardly to not even try and score with 5+ minutes to go. What a disgrace.

I'm not sure I'm a "defender" of the Patriots sitting their starters. However, isn't it just a bit presumptuous of any of us not inside that locker room to know what is right/wrong for a team? Brady looked awful on that last series that ended in the Sharper INT. Was he hurting a bit after being a rag-doll earlier in the game? Did he come down with a cold on Saturday? Did his dog die this morning and he was having a hard time keeping his head on straight? Who knows. However, I assume that BB made a decision that he believed was in the best interests of his team.Not risking injury? Sending his starters a message about how disgusted he was with their performance? Wanting to get some 2nd/3rd stringers some PT in case they are called upon later in the year? Who knows. I sure don't know...but I think it's funny how others on this board seem to know what was going on. I guess I didn't realize we had that many Pats players and staffers trolling our boards. I don't like the Pats. I don't hate the Pats, but I've always thought that BB comes off as a bit "wee superior to thee" and hate the way ESPN worships the ground that franchise walks on (even though they are the home team for ESPN, I know). That said, I enjoy seeing the Pats stumble and for BB to get his come-uppins. Pulling his starters down 21 with five minutes to go, however, doesn't seem like fuel to that fire. FWIW.

 

[Avery]

Brady didn't look quite right but down 3 touchdowns with 2 timeouts, and those weapons, is something the Patriots could pull off.

Brady didn't look quite right but down 3 touchdowns with 2 timeouts, those weapons... and that defense... it's something the Patriots couldn't pull off.I don't care how good there offensive players are, that defense couldn't stop the Saints all game and they weren't about to in the last five minutes... and Belichick knew it.

People seem to be confusing "probably" with "certainty"."Probably not": Coming back with three TDs in 5 minutes when you have been outplayed all game.

"Certainly not": Coming back with three TDs in 5 minutes when you bench you starters and don't try to move the ball.

 

[Swamprat]

As a neutral observer, I see this in a slightly different way.

All Champions have a swagger and an arrogance that defines them. BB has an up close and personal view of this, based on the success that he has enjoyed with the Pats. Confidence is an elusive, fragile thing that is OFTEN, the slight difference in games that matter. Remember that the Pat's Super Bowl wins were all close games.

The Pats have not won a game on the road yet this year. They were being Smoked, on the road, against a team that they could meet in the Super Bowl. (If they are lucky to make it that far).

In my mind, yanking Brady when he did, in a game they had a 5% chance of winning (Agreed I'm picking that number out of my ###) shows his team that if you have no swagger, no confidence, we can NEVER win it ALL. It may not work, but to me, he was making a statement to his OWN team, in his OWN way.

No one can argue with his methodology in dealing with his own team. For all of the criticism he takes over any of the relevant issues, his success rate is something that ANY NFL owner would take. Motivation/Confidence may have been the difference in ANY of the Super Bowl wins the Pats have achieved.

Say what you will about BB, I don't think it's possible to say that he isn't in touch with his teams. Maybe it will work and maybe it won't, but I refuse to believe that it wasn't ALL calculated.

Tell me how Stupid I am for thinking this way.

Tampa doesn't count?

U got me, I forgot about that. Being a Packer fan, you would think I had more respect for the Tampa "home field advantage!"Hehe, good call, and I apologize for my own ignorance.

The Tampa Bay game was played in London. The "away" win was on a neutral field.

 

[Knobs]

Brady didn't look quite right but down 3 touchdowns with 2 timeouts, and those weapons, is something the Patriots could pull off.

Brady didn't look quite right but down 3 touchdowns with 2 timeouts, those weapons... and that defense... it's something the Patriots couldn't pull off.I don't care how good there offensive players are, that defense couldn't stop the Saints all game and they weren't about to in the last five minutes... and Belichick knew it.

There were more than 5 minutes left. If the Patriots had scored a quick touchdown they would have been down by 14 points with 5 minutes to go.If they hadn't scored and the Saints had, then he could have sat his players.

 

[Knobs]

The shot of Brady and Bilicheck staring up at the scoreboard and tsk tsking. if you could caption the image of the thoughts going on in thier minds:Wow, a QB that is superior, and a coach that is also superior.They got

lol at thinking payton is superior to bb.

In this game he was.

 

[pizzatyme]

Week 10 NE up 17 on the Colts in the 4th quarter. Caldwell made the gutsy call to leave in the starters and the Colts come back to win.

 

[⚡DEADHEAD⚡]

the pocket was breaking down all over Brady most of the game, the secondary covered just about everybody easily and Brady was inaccurate most of the game including throwing a pick before he got pulled. I think bilichick had no idea how to overcome what the saints were throwing at him and decided to get his backup some pt.

oh and manning > Brady

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Week 10 NE up 17 on the Colts in the 4th quarter. Caldwell made the gutsy call to leave in the starters and the Colts come back to win.

Not even close...Colts had it down to 10 with about 7-8 minutes left IIRC...then BB hands him the ball inside their own 20 yd line I believe. Good try but not even close to the same IMO.

 

[Swamprat]

the pocket was breaking down all over Brady most of the game, the secondary covered just about everybody easily and Brady was inaccurate most of the game including throwing a pick before he got pulled. I think bilichick had no idea how to overcome what the saints were throwing at him and decided to get his backup some pt.oh and manning > Brady

ESPN just showed a replay of that pick. Looked like Moss quit his route and then just kind of ran behind Sharper as he returned the interception and made no effort to tackle him. I wonder if that had something to do with BB pulling Brady and Co.

 

[pizzatyme]

Anyone else notice on Brady's early pick that he had a chance to make a tackle on the play but instead went down to the ground to avoid getting hit?

Classic!

 

[BaBastage]

One thing though - I'll give BB credit for sticking around and congratulating Brees. He even waited until after Brees finished his on-the-field interview.

Granted, I don't get to see many Pats games, but I was surprised to see that - usually it seems like he can't wait to leave the field after a loss.

As far as rolling over goes, I was shocked. I agree, the game was out of hand and the odds of coming back were slim to none. But I've seen far worse teams with less chance of pulling it off fight with more guts to the end.

Hats off to the Saints.

 

[cvnpoka]

The shot of Brady and Bilicheck staring up at the scoreboard and tsk tsking. if you could caption the image of the thoughts going on in thier minds:Wow, a QB that is superior, and a coach that is also superior.They got

lol at thinking payton is superior to bb.

In this game he was.

kicking fg with a likely drunk carney on 4th and one is a pretty bad decision imo. in fact, advancednflstatistics.com said it caused about a 10% reduction in win expectation.bb subsequently went for it on 2 4th downs the next drive resulting in a td.

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

For the people defending this, where was the cutoff? Would you have been OK quitting down 21 with 8 minutes to go? Why risk injury to anyone? Should teams just concede when they get down 21 and not take the field at all. This would ensure they can't get hurt. Cowardly to not even try and score with 5+ minutes to go. What a disgrace.

I'm not sure I'm a "defender" of the Patriots sitting their starters. However, isn't it just a bit presumptuous of any of us not inside that locker room to know what is right/wrong for a team? Brady looked awful on that last series that ended in the Sharper INT. Was he hurting a bit after being a rag-doll earlier in the game? Did he come down with a cold on Saturday? Did his dog die this morning and he was having a hard time keeping his head on straight? Who knows. However, I assume that BB made a decision that he believed was in the best interests of his team.Not risking injury? Sending his starters a message about how disgusted he was with their performance? Wanting to get some 2nd/3rd stringers some PT in case they are called upon later in the year? Who knows. I sure don't know...but I think it's funny how others on this board seem to know what was going on. I guess I didn't realize we had that many Pats players and staffers trolling our boards. I don't like the Pats. I don't hate the Pats, but I've always thought that BB comes off as a bit "wee superior to thee" and hate the way ESPN worships the ground that franchise walks on (even though they are the home team for ESPN, I know). That said, I enjoy seeing the Pats stumble and for BB to get his come-uppins. Pulling his starters down 21 with five minutes to go, however, doesn't seem like fuel to that fire. FWIW.

basically, what it comes down to is if belichick goes for it on 4th people come on here and , if he doesn't they come on here and , if he plays his starters they , if he pulls his starters they --- pretty much whatever he does or doesn't do you can count on a board full of threads 'ing and ripping him.that's kind of a recurring theme in this henhouse --- everybody is a classless 'tool' and a disgrace.it's too bad belichick and the pats can't live up to the standards set here.by the way ---- anybody hear any word about david thomas being named team captain for the game?

 

[⚡DEADHEAD⚡]

the pocket was breaking down all over Brady most of the game, the secondary covered just about everybody easily and Brady was inaccurate most of the game including throwing a pick before he got pulled. I think bilichick had no idea how to overcome what the saints were throwing at him and decided to get his backup some pt.oh and manning > Brady

ESPN just showed a replay of that pick. Looked like Moss quit his route and then just kind of ran behind Sharper as he returned the interception and made no effort to tackle him. I wonder if that had something to do with BB pulling Brady and Co.

would make sense. All game long it felt like the secondary was unstoppable.

 

[pizzatyme]

You play to win the game!

Signed,

Bill Belichick

 

[Keysersoze666]

As a neutral observer, I see this in a slightly different way.

All Champions have a swagger and an arrogance that defines them. BB has an up close and personal view of this, based on the success that he has enjoyed with the Pats. Confidence is an elusive, fragile thing that is OFTEN, the slight difference in games that matter. Remember that the Pat's Super Bowl wins were all close games.

The Pats have not won a game on the road yet this year. They were being Smoked, on the road, against a team that they could meet in the Super Bowl. (If they are lucky to make it that far).

In my mind, yanking Brady when he did, in a game they had a 5% chance of winning (Agreed I'm picking that number out of my ###) shows his team that if you have no swagger, no confidence, we can NEVER win it ALL. It may not work, but to me, he was making a statement to his OWN team, in his OWN way.

No one can argue with his methodology in dealing with his own team. For all of the criticism he takes over any of the relevant issues, his success rate is something that ANY NFL owner would take. Motivation/Confidence may have been the difference in ANY of the Super Bowl wins the Pats have achieved.

Say what you will about BB, I don't think it's possible to say that he isn't in touch with his teams. Maybe it will work and maybe it won't, but I refuse to believe that it wasn't ALL calculated.

Tell me how Stupid I am for thinking this way.

Tampa doesn't count?

U got me, I forgot about that. Being a Packer fan, you would think I had more respect for the Tampa "home field advantage!"Hehe, good call, and I apologize for my own ignorance.

The Tampa Bay game was played in London. The "away" win was on a neutral field.

Thanks SwampRat, I was trying to be nice' to all in general. I still admire a viewpoint that is concentrated on the end result.In my mind, BB is an Expert in this area, and that isn't even debatable. Maybe his choice will end up being wrong, but I think yanking his players when he did, was a MESSAGE, that was calculated. Long term. He isn't interested in the Division or even the Conference.

To compare New England's goals to the average NFL team is so ludicrous, that it demeans the concept of Dynasty. BB is going for it, WHO here would ever say that they want their team to NOT do that?

Seriously, DD and any others, do you think the guy isn't competent at this point?

 

[Voice Of Reason]

With Randy Moss vs two CBs off the street and 2 timeouts, I was really surprised at this decision. Go out there and try to throw a deep route or two even vs double coverage first. If it gets picked, then bench Brady.

 

[cvnpoka]

anyway, this is a pretty bad decision from bb as far as winning this particular game. they def had a greater than 0% chance of winning and likely enough of a chance to fade injury concerns.

the only thing that can make it the proper decision was that it was some sort of motivational ploy for the season. bench your stars and send a message and all that type of stuff. not sure how to quantify it but motivational benchings have been utilized forever in sports.

still, its pretty funny that the guys who were quick to dismiss stats from the bb 4th down decision, are using them to argue against him here. methinks theres quite and anti patriot and bb bias.

 

[Voice Of Reason]

As a neutral observer, I see this in a slightly different way.

All Champions have a swagger and an arrogance that defines them. BB has an up close and personal view of this, based on the success that he has enjoyed with the Pats. Confidence is an elusive, fragile thing that is OFTEN, the slight difference in games that matter. Remember that the Pat's Super Bowl wins were all close games.

The Pats have not won a game on the road yet this year. They were being Smoked, on the road, against a team that they could meet in the Super Bowl. (If they are lucky to make it that far).

In my mind, yanking Brady when he did, in a game they had a 5% chance of winning (Agreed I'm picking that number out of my ###) shows his team that if you have no swagger, no confidence, we can NEVER win it ALL. It may not work, but to me, he was making a statement to his OWN team, in his OWN way.

No one can argue with his methodology in dealing with his own team. For all of the criticism he takes over any of the relevant issues, his success rate is something that ANY NFL owner would take. Motivation/Confidence may have been the difference in ANY of the Super Bowl wins the Pats have achieved.

Say what you will about BB, I don't think it's possible to say that he isn't in touch with his teams. Maybe it will work and maybe it won't, but I refuse to believe that it wasn't ALL calculated.

Tell me how Stupid I am for thinking this way.

Tampa doesn't count?

U got me, I forgot about that. Being a Packer fan, you would think I had more respect for the Tampa "home field advantage!"Hehe, good call, and I apologize for my own ignorance.

The Tampa Bay game was played in London. The "away" win was on a neutral field.

Thanks SwampRat, I was trying to be nice' to all in general. I still admire a viewpoint that is concentrated on the end result.In my mind, BB is an Expert in this area, and that isn't even debatable. Maybe his choice will end up being wrong, but I think yanking his players when he did, was a MESSAGE, that was calculated. Long term. He isn't interested in the Division or even the Conference.

To compare New England's goals to the average NFL team is so ludicrous, that it demeans the concept of Dynasty. BB is going for it, WHO here would ever say that they want their team to NOT do that?

Seriously, DD and any others, do you think the guy isn't competent at this point?

Competent, yes.Infallible, no.

 

[pizzatyme]

If he isn't interested in the Division or Conference, then what is left? Next year?

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Brady didn't look quite right but down 3 touchdowns with 2 timeouts, and those weapons, is something the Patriots could pull off.

Brady didn't look quite right but down 3 touchdowns with 2 timeouts, those weapons... and that defense... it's something the Patriots couldn't pull off.I don't care how good there offensive players are, that defense couldn't stop the Saints all game and they weren't about to in the last five minutes... and Belichick knew it.

There were more than 5 minutes left. If the Patriots had scored a quick touchdown they would have been down by 14 points with 5 minutes to go.If they hadn't scored and the Saints had, then he could have sat his players.

Seriously? You make it seem like they could just reach down in that magic hat they hold and...it just occured to me why so many are mad in here. The over under was 56, right? Everyone I know was calling me today and saying bet the over...it has to play a part. You either had players going tonight and lost which makes you this cranky or you had money riding on the over tonight and were really mad when the Pats couldn't get a garbage time TD after the Saints made it 38-17, which by the way for those not paying attention, the game was over at that point too but BB sent them back out for one last chance. You think in 7 minutes you might be able to squeeze in 3 drives but not in 5 minutes...they were not going to push the ball down there 3 times in 5 minutes. Here is the wet dream you all want to create in your heads...tell me this is believable.5:30-Brady takes the field4:30-Brady hits Moss 70 yd TD4:20-Onside kick recovered by the Pats and MOP hits the pipe2:30-Brady to Welker capping a 50 yard drive2:00-Onside kick recovered by the Pats0:00-Brady finds Moss in the end zone again to tie the game 38-38 and send it into overtime.Digest that a bit because that is scenario you are wanting to create and based on what happened the previous 55 minutes I think you are being very dishonest with yourself on why you wanted Brady still out there. If everyone think the Pats were wrong in doing so, hey go for it. Free country and you can think what you want but I bet the majority of non sports betting NFL fans and those that take this hobby way less serious than we do had absolutely no problem with the way the game was handled at the end. BB even kissed Drew Brees and waited for him to end the interview with ESPN so he could lay one on him.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Anyone else notice on Brady's early pick that he had a chance to make a tackle on the play but instead went down to the ground to avoid getting hit?Classic!

See post 110

 

[pizzatyme]

Brady didn't look quite right but down 3 touchdowns with 2 timeouts, and those weapons, is something the Patriots could pull off.

Brady didn't look quite right but down 3 touchdowns with 2 timeouts, those weapons... and that defense... it's something the Patriots couldn't pull off.I don't care how good there offensive players are, that defense couldn't stop the Saints all game and they weren't about to in the last five minutes... and Belichick knew it.

There were more than 5 minutes left. If the Patriots had scored a quick touchdown they would have been down by 14 points with 5 minutes to go.If they hadn't scored and the Saints had, then he could have sat his players.

Seriously? You make it seem like they could just reach down in that magic hat they hold and...it just occured to me why so many are mad in here. The over under was 56, right? Everyone I know was calling me today and saying bet the over...it has to play a part. You either had players going tonight and lost which makes you this cranky or you had money riding on the over tonight and were really mad when the Pats couldn't get a garbage time TD after the Saints made it 38-17, which by the way for those not paying attention, the game was over at that point too but BB sent them back out for one last chance. You think in 7 minutes you might be able to squeeze in 3 drives but not in 5 minutes...they were not going to push the ball down there 3 times in 5 minutes. Here is the wet dream you all want to create in your heads...tell me this is believable.5:30-Brady takes the field4:30-Brady hits Moss 70 yd TD4:20-Onside kick recovered by the Pats and MOP hits the pipe2:30-Brady to Welker capping a 50 yard drive2:00-Onside kick recovered by the Pats0:00-Brady finds Moss in the end zone again to tie the game 38-38 and send it into overtime.Digest that a bit because that is scenario you are wanting to create and based on what happened the previous 55 minutes I think you are being very dishonest with yourself on why you wanted Brady still out there. If everyone think the Pats were wrong in doing so, hey go for it. Free country and you can think what you want but I bet the majority of non sports betting NFL fans and those that take this hobby way less serious than we do had absolutely no problem with the way the game was handled at the end. BB even kissed Drew Brees and waited for him to end the interview with ESPN so he could lay one on him.

Did it seem like the wet dream that happened against the Colts was possible at the time?

 

[Clinton]

Brady didn't look quite right but down 3 touchdowns with 2 timeouts, and those weapons, is something the Patriots could pull off.

Brady didn't look quite right but down 3 touchdowns with 2 timeouts, those weapons... and that defense... it's something the Patriots couldn't pull off.I don't care how good there offensive players are, that defense couldn't stop the Saints all game and they weren't about to in the last five minutes... and Belichick knew it.

People seem to be confusing "probably" with "certainty"."Probably not": Coming back with three TDs in 5 minutes when you have been outplayed all game.

"Certainly not": Coming back with three TDs in 5 minutes when you bench you starters and don't try to move the ball.

Neither Belichick are I am confusing it. It's all percentages, man, and the odds that the Patriots would stop the Saints after giving up gigantic chunks of yardage was slim and next to none. Why risk injury and why not use it as a way to motivate your starters down the stretch. The patriots will win their division so they don't need the one game as much as they need the motivation right about now.

 

[Voice Of Reason]

Brady didn't look quite right but down 3 touchdowns with 2 timeouts, and those weapons, is something the Patriots could pull off.

Brady didn't look quite right but down 3 touchdowns with 2 timeouts, those weapons... and that defense... it's something the Patriots couldn't pull off.I don't care how good there offensive players are, that defense couldn't stop the Saints all game and they weren't about to in the last five minutes... and Belichick knew it.

People seem to be confusing "probably" with "certainty"."Probably not": Coming back with three TDs in 5 minutes when you have been outplayed all game.

"Certainly not": Coming back with three TDs in 5 minutes when you bench you starters and don't try to move the ball.

Neither Belichick are I am confusing it. It's all percentages, man, and the odds that the Patriots would stop the Saints after giving up gigantic chunks of yardage was slim and next to none. Why risk injury and why not use it as a way to motivate your starters down the stretch. The patriots will win their division so they don't need the one game as much as they need the motivation right about now.

The defense had a much better chance to stop the Saints as Sean Payton was seemingly content to take the ball out of Brees hands and run it at the end. If the Pats didn't think they had a chance to stop the Saints when they were much more likely to run instead of pass, they should have left at halftime

 

[None_More_Black]

Brady didn't look quite right but down 3 touchdowns with 2 timeouts, and those weapons, is something the Patriots could pull off.

Brady didn't look quite right but down 3 touchdowns with 2 timeouts, those weapons... and that defense... it's something the Patriots couldn't pull off.I don't care how good there offensive players are, that defense couldn't stop the Saints all game and they weren't about to in the last five minutes... and Belichick knew it.

People seem to be confusing "probably" with "certainty"."Probably not": Coming back with three TDs in 5 minutes when you have been outplayed all game.

"Certainly not": Coming back with three TDs in 5 minutes when you bench you starters and don't try to move the ball.

Neither Belichick are I am confusing it. It's all percentages, man, and the odds that the Patriots would stop the Saints after giving up gigantic chunks of yardage was slim and next to none. Why risk injury and why not use it as a way to motivate your starters down the stretch. The patriots will win their division so they don't need the one game as much as they need the motivation right about now.

How does it motivate your players when they want to play but you tell them you can't win? Creates a rift if anything. The Patriots won a super bowl 5 years ago.

 

[Keysersoze666]

Hehe, good call, and I apologize for my own ignorance.

The Tampa Bay game was played in London. The "away" win was on a neutral field.

Thanks SwampRat, I was trying to be nice' to all in general. I still admire a viewpoint that is concentrated on the end result.

In my mind, BB is an Expert in this area, and that isn't even debatable. Maybe his choice will end up being wrong, but I think yanking his players when he did, was a MESSAGE, that was calculated. Long term. He isn't interested in the Division or even the Conference.

To compare New England's goals to the average NFL team is so ludicrous, that it demeans the concept of Dynasty. BB is going for it, WHO here would ever say that they want their team to NOT do that?

Seriously, DD and any others, do you think the guy isn't competent at this point?

Competent, yes.

Infallible, no.

Voice of Reason,

I agree with U ...

He isn't infallible, I never meant to insinuate that. BUT, he is willing to LOSE, based on his own strategy, NOT the strategy that the BOOK bets on. I have to say that I admire that attitude in a world that is so Conservative.

 

[Native]

I think a lot of the criticism against the Pats is due to the fact that Brady is put on a pedestal by many members of the media (and many Pats fans on this board) that the common fan begrudges. Quite frankly, there are a lot of people who disagree with Peter King and his ilk who regularly mention Brady in the same breath as the other all time greats. The naysayers call him a system QB, point to the Cheating scandal, etc. Given that, the argument probably goes something like this: "If hes really THAT great - in the same breath as Marino, Unitas, Manning, etc - than he should be out there fighting until the very end".

Not saying that I necessarily adhere to this, but I think there is a certain resentment among NFL fans. And things like tonight dont do anything to ease those complaints

 

[Native]

One thing though - I'll give BB credit for sticking around and congratulating Brees. He even waited until after Brees finished his on-the-field interview.Granted, I don't get to see many Pats games, but I was surprised to see that - usually it seems like he can't wait to leave the field after a loss.As far as rolling over goes, I was shocked. I agree, the game was out of hand and the odds of coming back were slim to none. But I've seen far worse teams with less chance of pulling it off fight with more guts to the end. Hats off to the Saints.

He was also very candid in his own post game interview. Admitted that he was outcoached and praised the Saints more than Id ever heard him praise any other team after a loss. Very interesting.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Brady didn't look quite right but down 3 touchdowns with 2 timeouts, and those weapons, is something the Patriots could pull off.

Brady didn't look quite right but down 3 touchdowns with 2 timeouts, those weapons... and that defense... it's something the Patriots couldn't pull off.I don't care how good there offensive players are, that defense couldn't stop the Saints all game and they weren't about to in the last five minutes... and Belichick knew it.

There were more than 5 minutes left. If the Patriots had scored a quick touchdown they would have been down by 14 points with 5 minutes to go.If they hadn't scored and the Saints had, then he could have sat his players.

Seriously? You make it seem like they could just reach down in that magic hat they hold and...it just occured to me why so many are mad in here. The over under was 56, right? Everyone I know was calling me today and saying bet the over...it has to play a part. You either had players going tonight and lost which makes you this cranky or you had money riding on the over tonight and were really mad when the Pats couldn't get a garbage time TD after the Saints made it 38-17, which by the way for those not paying attention, the game was over at that point too but BB sent them back out for one last chance. You think in 7 minutes you might be able to squeeze in 3 drives but not in 5 minutes...they were not going to push the ball down there 3 times in 5 minutes.

Here is the wet dream you all want to create in your heads...tell me this is believable.

5:30-Brady takes the field

4:30-Brady hits Moss 70 yd TD

4:20-Onside kick recovered by the Pats and MOP hits the pipe

2:30-Brady to Welker capping a 50 yard drive

2:00-Onside kick recovered by the Pats

0:00-Brady finds Moss in the end zone again to tie the game 38-38 and send it into overtime.

Digest that a bit because that is scenario you are wanting to create and based on what happened the previous 55 minutes I think you are being very dishonest with yourself on why you wanted Brady still out there.

If everyone think the Pats were wrong in doing so, hey go for it. Free country and you can think what you want but I bet the majority of non sports betting NFL fans and those that take this hobby way less serious than we do had absolutely no problem with the way the game was handled at the end. BB even kissed Drew Brees and waited for him to end the interview with ESPN so he could lay one on him.

Did it seem like the wet dream that happened against the Colts was possible at the time?

Gosh PT, the way you talk down to me with that quick little 1 line snappy comback...why I must be wrong. Just to check it and make absolutely sure that you are right, let me pull the drive chart form the game.(taps fingers on glass tabletop while looking up the drive charts on CBS Sportsline )

OK, so the Pats made it 31-14 with 14:23 left to play in regulation. And I think I read this right that the Colts scored right back and made it 31-21 with 12:20 left to go...

Do I have to keep going or can you admit you have no clue what you are talking about? The Colts were down only 10 points then, in fact they cut the lead from 34-21(a 2 possession game not 3) down to 34-28 at the 2:27 mark. Never would it have been a good idea to pull anyone in that game...and the momentum was clearly with the Colts which is why BB went for it on 4th and 1 inside his own 30.

 

[Knobs]

Seriously? You make it seem like they could just reach down in that magic hat they hold and...it just occured to me why so many are mad in here. The over under was 56, right? Everyone I know was calling me today and saying bet the over...it has to play a part. You either had players going tonight and lost which makes you this cranky or you had money riding on the over tonight and were really mad when the Pats couldn't get a garbage time TD after the Saints made it 38-17, which by the way for those not paying attention, the game was over at that point too but BB sent them back out for one last chance. You think in 7 minutes you might be able to squeeze in 3 drives but not in 5 minutes...they were not going to push the ball down there 3 times in 5 minutes.

As I said earlier in the thread, I own no Patriots. I had Brees playing but won by a very large margin even without him. Nothing about this game affected my fantasy standings in the least. I did not bet on this game. I was pulling for the Saints but really didn't care who won.Why can't someone call out Belichick's cowardice without being accused of having some monetary or fantasy bias? Heck, even another poster in this thread said he disagreed with the decision but had Welker had 7 yards more he would have lost?

 

[Clinton]

Brady didn't look quite right but down 3 touchdowns with 2 timeouts, and those weapons, is something the Patriots could pull off.

Brady didn't look quite right but down 3 touchdowns with 2 timeouts, those weapons... and that defense... it's something the Patriots couldn't pull off.I don't care how good there offensive players are, that defense couldn't stop the Saints all game and they weren't about to in the last five minutes... and Belichick knew it.

People seem to be confusing "probably" with "certainty"."Probably not": Coming back with three TDs in 5 minutes when you have been outplayed all game.

"Certainly not": Coming back with three TDs in 5 minutes when you bench you starters and don't try to move the ball.

Neither Belichick are I am confusing it. It's all percentages, man, and the odds that the Patriots would stop the Saints after giving up gigantic chunks of yardage was slim and next to none. Why risk injury and why not use it as a way to motivate your starters down the stretch. The patriots will win their division so they don't need the one game as much as they need the motivation right about now.

How does it motivate your players when they want to play but you tell them you can't win? Creates a rift if anything. The Patriots won a super bowl 5 years ago.

There wasn't a rift when the patriots chose Brady over Bledsoe, ther wasn't a rift when they got rid of Lawyer Milloy two days before the season started and there wasn't a rift when Belichick didn't trust his defense two weeks ago. The patriots get players that are smart enough to know that this stuff happens.

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

One thing though - I'll give BB credit for sticking around and congratulating Brees. He even waited until after Brees finished his on-the-field interview.Granted, I don't get to see many Pats games, but I was surprised to see that - usually it seems like he can't wait to leave the field after a loss.As far as rolling over goes, I was shocked. I agree, the game was out of hand and the odds of coming back were slim to none. But I've seen far worse teams with less chance of pulling it off fight with more guts to the end. Hats off to the Saints.

He was also very candid in his own post game interview. Admitted that he was outcoached and praised the Saints more than Id ever heard him praise any other team after a loss. Very interesting.

he praises every team they play.last year he was building up oakland like they were defending superbowl champs.after every loss the first thing out of his mouth is that the pats were outcoached, and they need to do a better job of coaching.

 

[Voice Of Reason]

Voice of Reason,I agree with U ...He isn't infallible, I never meant to insinuate that. BUT, he is willing to LOSE, based on his own strategy, NOT the strategy that the BOOK bets on. I have to say that I admire that attitude in a world that is so Conservative.

I agree that he should be commended for being the most thoughtful coach in the league. He obviously breaks down every situation and doesn't fall back on the dogma of "conventional wisdom." He doesn't make many mistakes, and when he does they are smaller than just about every coach in the league. Here, I think he did that. I also think he make a mistake vs the Colts last week at the end of the game. The mistake vs Indy was not planning his 3rd down play better knowing that he was going for it on 4th, which is very minor compared to the typical gaffes other coaches regularly make.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Seriously? You make it seem like they could just reach down in that magic hat they hold and...it just occured to me why so many are mad in here. The over under was 56, right? Everyone I know was calling me today and saying bet the over...it has to play a part.

You either had players going tonight and lost which makes you this cranky or you had money riding on the over tonight and were really mad when the Pats couldn't get a garbage time TD after the Saints made it 38-17, which by the way for those not paying attention, the game was over at that point too but BB sent them back out for one last chance. You think in 7 minutes you might be able to squeeze in 3 drives but not in 5 minutes...they were not going to push the ball down there 3 times in 5 minutes.

As I said earlier in the thread, I own no Patriots. I had Brees playing but won by a very large margin even without him. Nothing about this game affected my fantasy standings in the least. I did not bet on this game. I was pulling for the Saints but really didn't care who won.Why can't someone call out Belichick's cowardice without being accused of having some monetary or fantasy bias? Heck, even another poster in this thread said he disagreed with the decision but had Welker had 7 yards more he would have lost?

Why don't you find me a game where there was 5 minutes left and the team was down by 21, and its not college so the clock isn't stopping, find me an NFL game where a team has overcome this. Teams don't throw 1 pass and score 3 drives in a row so lets cut the BS, if you want to act as though you had nothing riding on this and just thought it was criminal what happened, fine more power to you but I feel its absolutely ridiculous. The desperation drive was the one where Brady took the field with 7:00 left...did you miss that all important drive?

 

[pizzatyme]

Gosh PT, the way you talk down to me with that quick little 1 line snappy comback...why I must be wrong. Just to check it and make absolutely sure that you are right, let me pull the drive chart form the game.

(taps fingers on glass tabletop while looking up the drive charts on CBS Sportsline )

OK, so the Pats made it 31-14 with 14:23 left to play in regulation. And I think I read this right that the Colts scored right back and made it 31-21 with 12:20 left to go...

Do I have to keep going or can you admit you have no clue what you are talking about? The Colts were down only 10 points then, in fact they cut the lead from 34-21(a 2 possession game not 3) down to 34-28 at the 2:27 mark. Never would it have been a good idea to pull anyone in that game...and the momentum was clearly with the Colts which is why BB went for it on 4th and 1 inside his own 30.

If I told you the Patriots would be up 17 points in the 4th quarter with BB on the sideline and Brady/Moss/ and Welker playing in the game, are you saying you aren't confident the Pats are going to win the game? Are you saying the Colts have better than a "wet dream" chance of winning there?Your silly retort is amusing, nonetheless.

 

[Native]

Seriously? You make it seem like they could just reach down in that magic hat they hold and...it just occured to me why so many are mad in here. The over under was 56, right? Everyone I know was calling me today and saying bet the over...it has to play a part.

You either had players going tonight and lost which makes you this cranky or you had money riding on the over tonight and were really mad when the Pats couldn't get a garbage time TD after the Saints made it 38-17, which by the way for those not paying attention, the game was over at that point too but BB sent them back out for one last chance. You think in 7 minutes you might be able to squeeze in 3 drives but not in 5 minutes...they were not going to push the ball down there 3 times in 5 minutes.

As I said earlier in the thread, I own no Patriots. I had Brees playing but won by a very large margin even without him. Nothing about this game affected my fantasy standings in the least. I did not bet on this game. I was pulling for the Saints but really didn't care who won.Why can't someone call out Belichick's cowardice without being accused of having some monetary or fantasy bias? Heck, even another poster in this thread said he disagreed with the decision but had Welker had 7 yards more he would have lost?

Why don't you find me a game where there was 5 minutes left and the team was down by 21, and its not college so the clock isn't stopping, find me an NFL game where a team has overcome this. Teams don't throw 1 pass and score 3 drives in a row so lets cut the BS, if you want to act as though you had nothing riding on this and just thought it was criminal what happened, fine more power to you but I feel its absolutely ridiculous. The desperation drive was the one where Brady took the field with 7:00 left...did you miss that all important drive?

The Colts were down 21 to the defending Super Bowl Champion Buccaneers with 5 minutes left and won the game...

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Does anyone remember what Troy Aikman said towards the end in the GB-Det contest last Thursday? Anyone remember what he was saying about Matt Stafford being on the field on national television? What was Detroit behind by at the time? And when did he say this in the 4th quarter?