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Illegal immigration (2 Viewers)

timschochet said:
I'm glad you're willing to see the connection here. I saw it myself a while back, and that was the point that I shied away from gun control arguments I had made previously because I realized they were all based on anecdotes. Every time there was a mass shooting, people like me (and even President Obama) would wave our hands in the air and say "when are we going to do something about all of these guns?" And in cases like your OP, people like you wave your hands and say "when are we going to do something about all these illegal immigrants?" In both instances we're relying on emotion and anecdotes. 
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There's a difference between saying "when are we going to do something about something that is illegal" and "when are we going to do something about something that is legal".  

 
Redmond Longhorn, in time I will provide you with plenty of info about this. I am a professional Chef/restaurateur who was schooled in  the art of farm to table dining in the late 90's, long before that phrase became de rigeur, and have a long and deep relationship with dozens of farmers in the mid atlantic/Chesepeake Bay watershed, and the legal and illegal central american folks who work for them.

In addition, I have a long and deep relationship with the metro-DC hospitality and construction industry, which employs tens of.thousands of legal and illegal central american immigrants. More on that later. Its a big part of why this happened to this poor girl.

For the record, my fiance, while an American Citizen, is half-El Salvadoran and has dozens of family, all legal, and hundreds of friends, both legal and illegal, who Ive interacted with over the 9 years we've been together, El Salv, Guat and Hond, and the metro DC area is home.to one of the greatest concentrations of illegal immigrants from those 3 countries, in the US, so I know a thing or two about them, their employers, what they are willing to work for, and the negative impact they have on unemployed Amercan Citizens who would like to be working, especially in recent years, low-income dc area blacks who have been all but replaced by them in the work force in metro-DC.

 
nittanylion said:
In addition, I have a long and deep relationship with the metro-DC hospitality and construction industry, which employs tens of.thousands of legal and illegal central american immigrants. More on that later. Its a big part of why this happened to this poor girl.
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It's really hard not to respond with the obligatory Christo :lmao:  

 
I think a big disconnect among folks is the moral relevance of legality. I honestly don't give a #### about the law, from a moral perspective. There have been absolutely abhorrent laws throughout history.

If someone sneaks across an arbitrary line to make a better life for himself, bully for him. If someone rapes or kills another person, #### him, whether he was birthed in a magically appropriate spot or not.

 
Dickies said:
I imagine this thread is a cesspool, but are we outraged over the thousands of rapes that occur in this country every year or just one isolated incident perpetrated by someone with brown skin?
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Well funny you should mention it, because the liberal media that’s shown no interest in the Rockville High School case gave more than 10 minutes of coverage in two days to the fake 2014 claim that a University of Virginia fraternity gang-raped a female student.  http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2017/03/23/networks-censor-alleged-rape-by-illegal-alien-but-gave-11-minutes-in-two-days-to-fake-uva-rape.html

 
Illegal immigrant charged in kidnapping of Texas woman

An illegal immigrant tied up a Texas woman, forced her into her car and tried to drive off with her on Wednesday, but the woman was able to escape and eventually helped lead authorities to her suspected attacker, officials said.

The man was not identified, and it was unknown how long he had been in the U.S. or what country he comes from. A media relations person was not available on Sunday to respond to questions from Fox News.

The man was charged with burglary of a habitation with intent to commit a felony and aggravated kidnapping. He also faces immigration proceedings, and is being held at Dimmit County Jail, a Friday statement from U.S. Customs and Border Protection said.

The woman told authorities she had been supplying food and water to the man, who was staying somewhere behind her house, for three days before he allegedly tried to kidnap her. She escaped as the man tried to start her car, officials said.

After an emergency call from an onlooker, agents found the woman walking along a road with her hands still bound. She told officials about the harrowing incident and CBP agents and Dimmit County Sheriff’s deputies immediately began searching for the suspect.

The man was found unresponsive “lying in the brush” – though medical technicians later determined he was “faking his condition,” the statement said.

“The skill sets of the men and women of the United States Border Patrol are simply incredible,” Acting Chief Patrol Agent Matthew J. Hudak said in the statement. “Tracking and arresting this subject resulted in the detention of an undocumented alien with a propensity for violence.”
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Rockville rape case lends powerful emotion to 'sanctuary' debate

The facts are horrifying enough to lend powerful emotion to a national policy debate.

On March 16, inside a Rockville, Md., high school restroom, Henry Sanchez-Milian, 18, and Jose Montano, 17, allegedly forced a 14-year-old female student into a boys bathroom where they sexually assaulted her.  The suspects, like their much-younger victim, are ninth-graders.

The two have been arrested and charged with first-degree rape and sexual offense.  But, as appalling as the attack was, it’s become about something bigger.

That’s because the attackers had apparently entered the U.S. illegally the year before. Montano, from El Salvador, was apprehended in April, and Sanchez-Milian, from Guatemala, in August. Border Patrol agents caught them near McAllen, Texas. They were ticketed for deportation, but after being detained in federal custody, both were handed over to the Office for Refugee Resettlement and allowed to join relatives in Maryland.

The two were among 150,000 unaccompanied minors, mostly from Central America, who have been admitted into the U.S. in the past few years.

The story has put a spotlight on President Trump’s efforts to stem the flow of such immigrants. As White House Press Secretary Sean Spicer put it, “part of the reason the president has made illegal immigration and [a] crackdown such a big deal is because of tragedies like this.”

Despite the alleged rape and a lengthy list of other crimes committed by illegal immigrants in recent years, including murders, rapes and drunken driving manslaughter cases, there has been open defiance of Trump’s policies in states and cities that declare themselves “sanctuaries” and refuse, to varying degrees, to cooperate with federal immigration authorities when they come into contact with an illegal immigrant.

Communities in Maryland have long promoted themselves as safe havens for illegal immigrants. Montgomery County, in which Rockville sits, denied 63 Immigration and Customs Enforcement requests to turn over such aliens just last year.

Even in the aftermath of the Rockville High School attack, the state legislature is considering a bill to resist the demands of federal authorities and declare Maryland America’s first sanctuary state. Republican Gov. Larry Hogan has called the legislation “outrageously irresponsible” and promises to veto it.

The Rockville case has emboldened Maryland citizens to fight back, challenging policies that allow illegal immigrants into the country and place them in their schools.

“The system failed this girl” Bruce Botwin, director of Help Save Maryland, a group opposing illegal immigration, told The Washington Times. “If my kid didn’t have a polio shot, they wouldn’t allow my son or daughter to enter the school but they’re telling me they aren’t screening [immigrant students]?”

Montgomery County Public School Superintendent Jack Smith defended the system amid rising anger from parents.

“While some would try to make this into a question and issue of immigration, what comes down here is we serve every student who walks through our door,” Smith told CNN. “We are a public school system, and we serve all of our students when they come to us.”

While Smith agrees the rape was “unacceptable” and “tragic,” he notes “people choose to do very bad things” and that “schools—relative to the rest of the world—are among the most safe places we can be in our community.”

The Rockville case, like the July, 2015 murder of Kate Steinle by an illegal immigrant in San Francisco, has already become a new flashpoint in the policy debate over sanctuary cities. The Trump administration’s Department of Homeland Security is pressing the fight with its recent “name-and-shame” list of sanctuary cities—118 jurisdictions that don’t cooperate with federal agents.

While many across the nation are defying the White House, polls suggest a majority of American oppose sanctuary cities. After the horror of Rockville, critics of sanctuary cities may find they have added momentum on their side.
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Sessions begins the crackdown on sanctuary cities.  Money talks and bull#### walks. 

Sessions takes aim at 'dangerous' sanctuary cities, warns on funding

Attorney General Jeff Sessions fired a broadside at so-called "sanctuary cities" Monday, telling reporters local policies of noncooperation with immigration authorities are "dangerous" and will cost communities federal funding.

In the Trump administration's most pointed warning yet, Sessions said federal law allows withholding of federal funding to sanctuary cities, and signaled that such measures will soon be taken. Sessions, who took the podium at White House Press Secretary Sean Spicer's regular media briefing, 

"Such policies cannot continue," he said. "They make our nation less safe by putting dangerous criminals back on the street."

While not a technical term, "sanctuary cities" are communities that have refuse to work with Immigration and Customs Enforcement officials after detaining illegal immigrants. By federal law, they are required to inform the feds when they have an illegal immigrant in custody, even if he or she has not been convicted of a crime.

Several big cities, including New York, Chicago and Los Angeles, as well as dozens and possibly hundreds of smaller counties, cities and towns, also refuse to notify ICE, which can then come and take custody of the illegal immigrant, possibly for deportation.

“LAPD has never participated in programs that deputise local law enforcement to act as immigration agents, and on my watch they never will,” Los Angeles Mayor Eric Garcetti said last week.

But Sessions said such policies put citizens' safety in jeopardy.

"The American people know that when cities and states refuse to help enforce immigration laws, our nation is less safe," Sessions said.

Perhaps telegraphing action President Trump warned of during his campaign, Sessions said the administration will pull billions in federal funding to sanctuary communities if they remain in noncompliance.

Sessions said communities applying for Department of Justice grants will be required to show they are following immigration law.

The DOJ will withhold, and could potentially "claw back" grants to localities out of compliance with federal immigration law, Sessions said. He noted one Justice Department office alone was expecting to award more than $4.1 billion in grants this fiscal year.

"Failure to deport aliens who are convicted of criminal offenses puts whole communities at risk, especially immigrant communities in the very sanctuary jurisdictions that seek to protect the perpetrators," Sessions said.

Sessions, an early supporter of Trump's candidacy, is a longtime illegal immigration hawk who helped drive Trump's winning platform plank on the subject.

Early in Trump's candidacy, in July, 2015, a woman named Kate Steinle was killed in San Francisco by an illegal immigrant who had been deported previously and had recently been freed by local authorities. The murder became a rallying point for the campaign.

More recently, a 14-year-old Maryland high school girl was allegedly raped by at least one and possibly two illegal immigrants in a school bathroom. That case has reignited the debate about illegal immigration and sanctuary policies.

Just days after his inauguration, Trump ordered the Department of Homeland Security to publish a weekly list of all detainer requests turned down by local jails. Trump said the list will "better inform the public regarding the public safety threats associated with sanctuary jurisdictions."
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Higgs said:
I can't read the article.  Says I need a subscription.
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Here you go:

Los Angeles Police Chief Charlie Beck said Tuesday that reports of sexual assault and domestic violence made by the city’s Latino residents have plummeted this year amid concerns that immigrants in the country illegally could risk deportation by interacting with police or testifying in court.

Beck said reports of sexual assault have dropped 25% among the city’s Latino population since the beginning of 2017 compared with the same period last year, adding that reports of domestic violence have fallen by 10%. Similar decreases were not seen in reports of those crimes by other ethnic groups, Beck said.

“Imagine, a young woman, imagine your daughter, your sister, your mother … not reporting a sexual assault, because they are afraid that their family will be torn apart,” Beck said.

Beck’s comments — which drew criticism from immigration enforcement advocates — came during an event in East Los Angeles in which Mayor Eric Garcetti signed an executive directive expanding the LAPD’s policy of not stopping people solely to question them about their immigration status to three other city agencies: the Fire Department, Airport Police and Port Police. The LAPD stopped initiating contacts with people in order to determine their immigration status in 1979. In 2014, the city ceased honoring requests from U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement to hold people in custody for possible deportation.

“We want to focus on serious crime, but we also want to focus on making more citizens, not more criminals,” Garcetti said.

For months, law enforcement leaders across the U.S. have expressed fear that aggressive immigration enforcement promised by President Trump’s administration would weaken the already shaky bond between minority communities and police. In recent weeks, reports that ICE agents have identified themselves as police officers during raids and made arrests in courthouses have caused some to wonder whether immigrants in the country illegally will refuse to cooperate with police as a result.


 

 
RedmondLonghorn said:
If the goal is to make cities safer, then doesn't cutting federal grants to local law enforcement seem like a weird way of going about it?
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It's a bunch of talk. If the federal government ever actually tried to cut grants over this issue, they'd be sued and lose worse than they did with the original travel ban. They'd have total egg on their faces. I doubt they'll ever do it, but I hope they try. 

Sanctuary cities are here to stay. And that's a damn good thing too. 

 
80% of Americans oppose sanctuary cities

An overwhelming majority of Americans believe that cities that arrest illegal immigrants for crimes should be required to turn them over to federal authorities.

The poll shows that President Trump has broad public support in his effort to crack down on sanctuary cities.

A survey from Harvard–Harris Poll provided exclusively to The Hill found that 80 percent of voters say local authorities should have to comply with the law by reporting to federal agents the illegal immigrants they come into contact with.

As it stands, hundreds of cities across the nation — many with Democratic mayors or city councils — are refusing to do so.

Trump has signed an executive order directing Homeland Security Secretary John Kelly to find ways to starve these sanctuary cities of federal funding. A Reuters analysis found the top 10 sanctuary cities in the U.S. receive $2.27 billion in federal funding for programs ranging from public health services to early childhood education.

Kelly is expected to hire thousands of new immigration enforcement agents with broad authority to detain and deport those in the country illegally, potentially setting up a showdown between the federal government and sanctuary cities.

The Harvard–Harris Poll survey found strong support for an overhaul of the nation's immigration laws, with 77 percent saying they support comprehensive immigration reform against only 23 percent who oppose.

“While there is broad support for comprehensive immigration reform, there is overwhelming opposition to sanctuary cities,” said Harvard–Harris co-director Mark Penn. “The public wants honest immigrants treated fairly and those who commit crimes deported and that's very clear from the data.”

The finding is one of several in the survey that show Trump has support for some of the controversial immigration proposals that were a hallmark of his campaign.

A majority — 52 percent — say they support Trump’s two executive orders allowing for the construction of a southern border wall, increasing the number of immigration officers by 10,000 and finding a way to revoke federal funds for sanctuary cities.

The crackdown on sanctuary cities is the most popular feature of those actions, followed closely by the directive to increase the border patrol, which is backed by 75 percent of voters.

The wall is the most divisive element of Trump’s plan, with 53 percent opposing its construction.

Meanwhile, 53 percent of voters surveyed said they back Trump’s travel ban, which was rejected by the courts. That order temporarily suspended the United States' refugee program for 120 days, indefinitely suspended resettlement for Syrian refugees and imposed a 90-day travel and immigration ban from seven predominately Muslim nations: Iran, Iraq, Syria, Yemen, Sudan, Libya and Somalia.

Kelly has said the administration will roll out a “tighter, more streamlined version” of the executive order some time soon.

Trump's new order is expected to target the same seven countries but will not include people who already have a visa to travel to the U.S. It will also exempt green card holders who are citizens of one of the countries in question.

Fifty-six percent say they support the specific aspect of Trump’s order that pauses immigration from the seven countries on the terrorism watch list until a new vetting system is in place.

Support for that policy goes up to 60 percent when the seven nations are described as “Muslim majority countries.”

Voters are worried that the federal judge’s suspension of Trump’s order — a ruling that was upheld this month at an appeals court in San Francisco — could put the nation at risk.

A plurality — 38 percent — say the federal judge’s suspension makes the nation less safe. Thirty-six percent said the court’s ruling will have no impact, and 26 percent said it will make the country safer.

The survey also found there are deep concerns among Americans over refugees fleeing their homelands for safety in the U.S.

Forty-seven percent said allowing refugees into the country has a negative impact on the nation, compared to only 33 percent who said it has a positive effect.

When voters are told that the U.S. is slated to receive 100,000 Syrian refugees, 51 percent said that number should be lower, 34 percent said it is an appropriate number, and 15 percent said the U.S. should allow more.

“Americans support both comprehensive immigration reform and stronger vetting and reduced refugees — they want a mix of compassion, strong borders,” said Penn. “They see ISIS as the greatest threat to the country and that is spurring concerns about refugee migration.”

The online survey of 2,148 registered voters was conducted between Feb. 11 and 13. The partisan breakdown is 39 percent Democrat, 30 percent Republican, 27 percent independent and 5 percent other. The Harvard–Harris Poll survey is a collaboration of the Harvard Center for American Political Studies and The Harris Poll.
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In the Trump administration's most pointed warning yet, Sessions said federal law allows withholding of federal funding to sanctuary cities,

Just so wrong. How can a United States Attorney General believe this to be true? Don't those guys study the law? 

 
timschochet said:
In the Trump administration's most pointed warning yet, Sessions said federal law allows withholding of federal funding to sanctuary cities,

Just so wrong. How can a United States Attorney General believe this to be true? Don't those guys study the law? 
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He's just as ignorant on marijuana policy. Narrow-minded old redneck pos hasn't learned anything new since 1955.

 
MarvinTScamper said:
I don't give two ####s about jurisdiction when we're talking about people illegally in this country.  Throw them out.
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Maybe you should round up some of your friends in a pick up truck and help out...considering wearing hoods to conceal your identities however

 
timschochet said:
Here you go:

Los Angeles Police Chief Charlie Beck said Tuesday that reports of sexual assault and domestic violence made by the city’s Latino residents have plummeted this year amid concerns that immigrants in the country illegally could risk deportation by interacting with police or testifying in court.

Beck said reports of sexual assault have dropped 25% among the city’s Latino population since the beginning of 2017 compared with the same period last year, adding that reports of domestic violence have fallen by 10%. Similar decreases were not seen in reports of those crimes by other ethnic groups, Beck said.

“Imagine, a young woman, imagine your daughter, your sister, your mother … not reporting a sexual assault, because they are afraid that their family will be torn apart,” Beck said.

Beck’s comments — which drew criticism from immigration enforcement advocates — came during an event in East Los Angeles in which Mayor Eric Garcetti signed an executive directive expanding the LAPD’s policy of not stopping people solely to question them about their immigration status to three other city agencies: the Fire Department, Airport Police and Port Police. The LAPD stopped initiating contacts with people in order to determine their immigration status in 1979. In 2014, the city ceased honoring requests from U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement to hold people in custody for possible deportation.

“We want to focus on serious crime, but we also want to focus on making more citizens, not more criminals,” Garcetti said.

For months, law enforcement leaders across the U.S. have expressed fear that aggressive immigration enforcement promised by President Trump’s administration would weaken the already shaky bond between minority communities and police. In recent weeks, reports that ICE agents have identified themselves as police officers during raids and made arrests in courthouses have caused some to wonder whether immigrants in the country illegally will refuse to cooperate with police as a result.
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I feel badly for the illegals with clean records who aren't reporting crimes against them.  I believe in amnesty for the illegals who have been here for a long time, haven't committed serious crimes, and have contributed to society.  That's why the problem with illegal immigration needs a holistic solution.

 
MarvinTScamper said:
FBI has jurisdiction wherever they want when federal laws are being broken.  Throw them out.
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I don't think anybody believes that the Federal agencies can't enforce Federal laws. 

The question is whether local agencies can be compelled to assist the Federal agencies in enforcement and investigation.

Seems like a pretty clear states rights issue to me. 

 
killface said:
actually you are saying break jurisdictional laws and throw them out so....
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so....FEDERAL laws apply everywhere.  You probably knew that.   So they're not breaking jurisdictional laws at all.  I'm sure you wouldn't protect a mass murderer if the same law applies, you just have a soft spot for illegals.   I'm not saying throw YOU out, just the guy breaking the ####### law.

 
MarvinTScamper said:
funny, you're the one kissing the criminals asses here.   I'm merely say enforce the laws of the land.  
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Just be quiet and send me some more of your taxes already, so I can dole them out to my undocumented buddies, OK? 

And while you're at it we need more water too. Pony up. 

 
RedmondLonghorn said:
I don't think anybody believes that the Federal agencies can't enforce Federal laws. 

The question is whether local agencies can be compelled to assist the Federal agencies in enforcement and investigation.

Seems like a pretty clear states rights issue to me. 
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Agree.  And it seems pretty simple that the feds can turn off federal dollars for denying this.   Much like states have been compelled to follow federal bench rulings for things like abortions, taxes, etc.   

 
Higgs said:
I feel badly for the illegals with clean records who aren't reporting crimes against them.  I believe in amnesty for the illegals who have been here for a long time, haven't committed serious crimes, and have contributed to society.  That's why the problem with illegal immigration needs a holistic solution.
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Do you think posting anecdotal evidence highlighting individual, particularly horrible violent crimes committed by illegal immigrants, while ignoring the fact that crackdowns on illegal immigrants may actually cause more violent crime by silencing victims and witnesses, is helpful in moving people towards a holistic solution? 

 
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