Indefinite New York Jets Official thread - **2025 season** - The indefinite rebuild continues (7 Viewers)

[rockaction]

is it - 7/8 wins?

It went from 8/9 to 7/8.

I won't quibble with six wins or so, but anything more than seven and you're stretching it.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

is it - 7/8 wins?

It went from 8/9 to 7/8.

I won't quibble with six wins or so, but anything more than seven and you're stretching it.

I said "borderline playoff team at best" - so 7 to 9 wins.

 

[zamboni]

I don't believe this is true - they're above average in 3/5 of the line.

They lost both their tackles. They have Fashanu, but he's an unknown and Mitchell is okay, I guess. He's pretty mediocre. Fashanu hopefully develops. Tackle is a pretty glaring position to be missing out on because you need absolute physical freaks to play it. They're not as bad off as they once were, but they could be a lot better.

Hard to say if the OL is good or not, just like any team. PFF grades help to assess, but it's one of those things that requires a lot of coaching, chemistry, etc. Unless one REALLY knows their stuff and has inside information, I don't know if you have a good or bad line until you see it. I have some faith in the coaching staff - we'll see about the chemistry (and talent).

 

[Kiddnets]

Some interesting posts - some thoughts

The woody angle is overplayed and just easy popshots. Sure the guy is a clown but so are many owners. Look at his history tho - he spends money and lets his people do their jobs for a few years. Where he runs into trouble is when things dont turn around instead of cleaning house he gets itchy trigger finger. As a 50+ yr fan Woody is not in my top 10 of concerns right now

OL is not a weakness at all. They are in much better shape than most of the league. Fashnu is not an unknown - he played quite a bit last year and more than held his own. LT is locked in with a solid player for the forseeable future., AVT is finally healthy and playing above avg guard. Simpson is a solid but not spectacular guard. they have a great young center in Tippman. So they lost a 37 yr old RT - I think they will grab a hold the fort guy in FA and draft a RT relatively high - maybe even at #7.

#2 Wr is definitely an issue but GWill is all world. Most QBs dont have a weapon approaching his level - I anticipate theyll bring in a cheap hole the fort #2 like Patrick and then add another in day 1 or 2 of draft. Also dont count out Corley - guy has skills and just got buried in last regime - if he works hard he could be a weapon - add a very nice trio of RBs and Fields is set up pretty nice.

As for laughing at Jets being a fringe playoff team - they had a QB who couldnt move who had at least 3 last drives to win games and blew it.....the kicker lost another 3 by himself - with good coaching and a kicker the Jets would have won 8-9 games last year. If this coaching regime is the real deal as we hope - I think they will definitely be in the mix if they can get Fields to play decent ball.

As for fantasy - based on "Jet bias" - Id be buying Wilson and Hall.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

They have Fashanu, but he's an unknown

?
He played well last season.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

I don't believe this is true - they're above average in 3/5 of the line.

They lost both their tackles. They have Fashanu, but he's an unknown and Mitchell is okay, I guess. He's pretty mediocre. Fashanu hopefully develops. Tackle is a pretty glaring position to be missing out on because you need absolute physical freaks to play it. They're not as bad off as they once were, but they could be a lot better.

I feel confused -

they lost AVT? He's a very solid OT and I believe he's still there.

Fashanu played and played well after injuries hit the line.

 

[rockaction]

I don't believe this is true - they're above average in 3/5 of the line.

They lost both their tackles. They have Fashanu, but he's an unknown and Mitchell is okay, I guess. He's pretty mediocre. Fashanu hopefully develops. Tackle is a pretty glaring position to be missing out on because you need absolute physical freaks to play it. They're not as bad off as they once were, but they could be a lot better.

I feel confused -

they lost AVT? He's a very solid OT and I believe he's still there.

Fashanu played and played well after injuries hit the line.

They bumped AVT back to tackle? He's a guard, man. He only bumped to tackle in 2023 for a bit. He played all of last year at right guard. I think.

eta* Yeah, he's a guard, man. I just looked up on newyorkjets.com and did a quick search. PFF has him as a guard. He played all year there.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Some interesting posts - some thoughts

The woody angle is overplayed and just easy popshots. Sure the guy is a clown but so are many owners. Look at his history tho - he spends money and lets his people do their jobs for a few years. Where he runs into trouble is when things dont turn around instead of cleaning house he gets itchy trigger finger. As a 50+ yr fan Woody is not in my top 10 of concerns right now

OL is not a weakness at all. They are in much better shape than most of the league. Fashnu is not an unknown - he played quite a bit last year and more than held his own. LT is locked in with a solid player for the forseeable future., AVT is finally healthy and playing above avg guard. Simpson is a solid but not spectacular guard. they have a great young center in Tippman. So they lost a 37 yr old RT - I think they will grab a hold the fort guy in FA and draft a RT relatively high - maybe even at #7.

#2 Wr is definitely an issue but GWill is all world. Most QBs dont have a weapon approaching his level - I anticipate theyll bring in a cheap hole the fort #2 like Patrick and then add another in day 1 or 2 of draft. Also dont count out Corley - guy has skills and just got buried in last regime - if he works hard he could be a weapon - add a very nice trio of RBs and Fields is set up pretty nice.

As for laughing at Jets being a fringe playoff team - they had a QB who couldnt move who had at least 3 last drives to win games and blew it.....the kicker lost another 3 by himself - with good coaching and a kicker the Jets would have won 8-9 games last year. If this coaching regime is the real deal as we hope - I think they will definitely be in the mix if they can get Fields to play decent ball.

As for fantasy - based on "Jet bias" - Id be buying Wilson and Hall.

Thanks. I feel like there's been a lot of misinformation in here the last two pages and it all started with the "Jets can't develop QBs" bunk, which has been true in the past of course, but I'm not sure how that's relevant with a brand new staff in place, I mean coaching staffs turn teams around all the time. Will this one? I don't know for sure but lets give them a chance at least.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

I don't believe this is true - they're above average in 3/5 of the line.

They lost both their tackles. They have Fashanu, but he's an unknown and Mitchell is okay, I guess. He's pretty mediocre. Fashanu hopefully develops. Tackle is a pretty glaring position to be missing out on because you need absolute physical freaks to play it. They're not as bad off as they once were, but they could be a lot better.

I feel confused -

they lost AVT? He's a very solid OT and I believe he's still there.

Fashanu played and played well after injuries hit the line.

They bumped AVT back to tackle? He's a guard, man. He only bumped to tackle in 2023 for a bit. He played all of last year at right guard. I think.

Sorry I confused OT and OG in my head - yes, he's a OG.

But then how did they lose both OTs since Fashanu played LT and RT last season?

 

[rockaction]

I don't believe this is true - they're above average in 3/5 of the line.

They lost both their tackles. They have Fashanu, but he's an unknown and Mitchell is okay, I guess. He's pretty mediocre. Fashanu hopefully develops. Tackle is a pretty glaring position to be missing out on because you need absolute physical freaks to play it. They're not as bad off as they once were, but they could be a lot better.

I feel confused -

they lost AVT? He's a very solid OT and I believe he's still there.

Fashanu played and played well after injuries hit the line.

They bumped AVT back to tackle? He's a guard, man. He only bumped to tackle in 2023 for a bit. He played all of last year at right guard. I think.

Sorry I confused OT and OG in my head - yes, he's a OG.

But then how did they lose both OTs since Fashanu played LT and RT last season?

Tyron Smith and Moses both played tackle. Smith is a UFA and I thought he was walking away from the game, and Moses signed with the Patriots.

That Smith info. about walking away from the game might not be right. He's taking time to think about it and see if his neck heals up. The Jets might have told him they were walking away from him?

Either way, neither starting tackle from last year is signed. One hopes Fashanu will step in, but who knows how effective he'll be. His PFF grade was low (if you put stock in that).

 

[Dr. Octopus]

One hopes Fashanu will step in, but who knows how effective he'll be. His PFF grade was low (if you put stock in that).

He did step in last season and by all accounts he played very well. Smith missed a big chunk of the season.

PFF is meaningless imo - I've seen so many wonky rankings by them.

 

[Kiddnets]

I suppose its a reference to Tyrone but he missed most of last season and was replaced with a top 12 OT draft pick blue chip who graded out very well in many starts - OL is not a huge concern IMO

The development of a QB is a recurring theme but again how does that apply to this regime? What QB did KC develop until Reid/Mahomes? I get the whole Jets are a joke thing but its dangerous to label a new regime that had nothing to do with the past. Lions were a joke until some whiz kid OC became all the rage - is it impossible that his protege who is the new Jets OC may not do the same?

Remember they added Rodgers because many thought they were a QB away from a deep playoff run - they had awful luck with the achilles injury but still won 7 games with one of the worst QB rooms in NFL history after Rodgers went down. They then should have cleaned house but doubled down - got cute with the defense and got burnt. This is not a tear down to the studs and tank bottom dwelling team IMO - they easily could have won 8-9 games last year and with competent coaching/GM work they could easily again this year.

I get that the Jets are a bottom feeding joke the past 10 yrs but they did go to back to back AFCCG more recently than the Dolphins even won a single playoff game

Lions were a joke worse than the Jets and all it took was a new regime to change the culture. I dont see how thats impossible here - especially when Glenn has been tabbed as one of the best coordinators in the league and a potential fantastic HC in future by many in the league.

Bottom line is Jets are in the best possible situation with Fields as it gives them a chance to get lucky and find a possible franchise QB who is young with upside. If he is bad then its an easy cut and move on. But to say Fields is doomed with a bad OL and no weapons Im just not buying.

 

[Uruk-Hai]

The development of a QB is a recurring theme but again how does that apply to this regime?

It doesn't. It's a lazy narrative, IMO.

Y'all don't sweat the outside noise. The cupboard's not bare. Let's hope the new FO/coaching staff hits this time. Sometimes all a franchise needs is competency/stability and a little luck.

All of the above is from an outsider's POV, of course, so take my words with however many grains of salt you'd like or tell me to mind my own business.

 

[rockaction]

I feel like there's been a lot of misinformation in here the last two pages and it all started with the "Jets can't develop QBs" bunk

They can't and they haven't changed their structure enough to where it seems like they're bringing in guys or making a concerted effort to help QBs out. If there has been something, I haven't heard it and I follow this team pretty well. Any organization headed by Woody Johnson is subject to his vagaries and whims, and I haven't heard about structural changes or guys coming in to help the QB position out. Think about it this way: who is their QB coach? Charles London. There, I've provided the answer for you. Know what position he played in college and was the coach of until the year 2020? Running back. From 2006-2020 he was a running backs coach who had never played the QB position and only started coaching it in 2021 with Atlanta, before he moved on to Tennessee in 2023 as passing game coordinator, and then in 2024 was Seattle's quarterbacks coach.

So you tell me, what exact structure is in place to coach Justin Fields? There is no new one. This is not lazy analysis nor misinformation. Instead, it's same ****-different day.

To address other specifics: GWil is not all-world. He's not even All-Pro. He's not even Pro Bowl. Tim Patrick is not a worthy number two by any stretch of the imagination, and Malachi Corley is a gadget player that nobody in the league takes seriously (yet). Their WR room is a joke of a room.

As for OL, they're rated good at right guard, good at center, and barely average at left guard. I don't know where this "the line is awesome" comes from. Fashanu graded out poorly at PFF, although some places and content creators think he did well. We will see how they develop. It doesn't bode well for the Jets that one of Fields's problems (and there is plenty of criticism about this) is that he holds the ball too long.

Anyway, I want the Jets to do well. I just don't see how the past two pages have been "misinformation" at all.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

I feel like there's been a lot of misinformation in here the last two pages and it all started with the "Jets can't develop QBs" bunk

They can't and they haven't changed their structure enough to where it seems like they're bringing in guys or making a concerted effort to help QBs out. If there has been something, I haven't heard it and I follow this team pretty well. Any organization headed by Woody Johnson is subject to his vagaries and whims, and I haven't heard about structural changes or guys coming in to help the QB position out. Think about it this way: who is their QB coach? Charles London. There, I've provided the answer for you. Know what position he played in college and was the coach of until the year 2020? Running back. From 2006-2020 he was a running backs coach who has never played the QB position and only started coaching it in 2021 with Atlanta, before he moved on to Tennessee in 2023 as passing game coordinator, and then in 2024 was Seattle's quarterbacks coach.

So you tell me, what exact structure is in place to coach Justin Fields? There is no new one. This is not lazy analysis nor misinformation. Instead, it's same ****-different day.

To address other specifics: GWil is not all-world. He's not even All-Pro. He's not even Pro Bowl. Tim Patrick is not a worthy number two by any stretch of the imagination, and Malachi Corley is a gadget player that nobody in the league takes seriously (yet). Their WR room is a joke of a room.

As for OL, they're rated good at right guard, good at center, and barely average at left guard. I don't know where this "the line is awesome" comes from. Fashanu graded out poorly at PFF, although some places and content creators think he did well. We will see how they develop. It doesn't bode well for the Jets that one of Fields's problems (and there is plenty of criticism about this) is that he holds the ball too long.

Anyway, I want the Jets to do well. I just don't see how the past two pages have been "misinformation" at all.

We’ll agree to disagree. The Jets are not some living breathing entity - the organization changes with each new regime.

Detroit was the biggest dumpster fire organization in the league before they got the right people in charge.

I don’t know if this new regime will be better and neither do you. If Fields does fail it’s not because “the Jets” failed him, it will be on this coaching staff.

 

[rockaction]

I don’t know if this new regime will be better and neither do you. If Fields does fail it’s not because “the Jets” failed him, it will be on this coaching staff.

We can't even agree on this, so I guess we'll just wait. So long as the "Jets" are owned by the same guy, then yes, "the Jets" will have failed him because the guy who does the hiring ****ed up again.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

I don’t know if this new regime will be better and neither do you. If Fields does fail it’s not because “the Jets” failed him, it will be on this coaching staff.

We can't even agree on this, so I guess we'll just wait. So long as the "Jets" are owned by the same guy, then yes, "the Jets" will have failed him because the guy who does the hiring ****ed up again.

Ok then we’ll disagree on that.

I’m starting to realize once again why I stay out of the Sharkpool. No offense meant towards you, just saying most of it is endless arguing about meaningless minutia and I feel this is heading in that direction.

I’m out - until more news breaks.

 

[rockaction]

No offense meant towards you, just saying most of it is endless arguing about meaningless minutia and I feel this is heading in that direction.

We don't disagree on minutiae; our disagreements are about entire chunks of logic and the basic building units of a football team. LOL.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

No offense meant towards you, just saying most of it is endless arguing about meaningless minutia and I feel this is heading in that direction.

We don't disagree on minutiae; our disagreements are about entire chunks of logic and the basic building units of a football team. LOL.

Ok

 

[Crash Davis]

I think it's the best move they had available, but that doesn't mean I'm sanguine about it working out. They did the best they could for this year and next.

Believe me, I hope Fields turns the corner and becomes a competent passer. That would be wonderful. But the Jets don't have a very good line right now and they've got one good receiver. That's it. This is going to be a really tough year for them, IMO. Then after this tough year, they have to try to re-sign Wilson and Sauce (if they decide to go that route). I hope they save their 2026 picks because they're going to need them and they'll be most likely picking from a good position.

I would be surprised if anyone here thinks he's going to turn into Jalen Hurts in the next two years but he has the physical ability to be that style of player so it's worth a shot to see if you can maximize it when you don't have any other options worth trying. I am with the others that disagree with you on Fashanu. Once he took over at LT the line play overall was much better. Nothing is guaranteed but I am pretty comfortable with him as the LT moving forward. Olu, AVT and Tipperman make up a pretty good young core to the OL and Simpson is fine as the 2nd guard. Find a RT in FA or the draft and they'll have a line that can be pretty solid provided they stay healthy which is never a given for the Jets. I am also willing to bet that just removing the hated Keith Carter will do wonders for the line play.

I'm not going to make any grand predictions about his play or their record, but if this new regime is any good let's see what they can do with raw talent. If nothing else how they design an offense around him to maximize his strengths and hide his weaknesses will tell me whether or not I should be hopeful about what they will do with any QB they draft after him should Fields predictably not work out.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

If you got Darnold or Geno you are marrying yourself to them for the next 3 years

I think Geno is a very good QB that will give Las Vegas what it needs - some organizational stability.

I think Darnold will be a disaster in Seattle. I’m happy for him and I pull for him but that o-line is arguably the worst in the league and Seattle booted 2 of their top 3 WRs. They’ll regret that contract by Week 5. Expect a repeat of his last two games all season.

 

[Joe Bryant]

But yes, there's still a lot of work to do - right now, at best, they are a borderline playoff team

That is very optimistic.

is it - 7/8 wins?

They won 5 games last season with a defense that gave up after Salah was fired and with Rodgers playing very poorly for a large part of the season. I'm not proclaiming them a playoff team, I just think they should be in the mix (they're not close to legit title contenders).

Obviously the projection I'm making requires Fields to improve as a passer - and he's shown small steps each season on that. Fields was 4-2 as a starter last season, and it's not like that was some great roster either as evidenced by what happened the rest of the season. Say what you will about his passing, but Fields rushing ability can be a nightmare for DCs.

I think maybe the disconnect is 7 wins and borderline playoff team.

The worst teams in last year's playoffs had 10 wins.

I think it's better to say as you did the number of wins you're projecting.

Are you saying 7.5?

 

[Dr. Octopus]

But yes, there's still a lot of work to do - right now, at best, they are a borderline playoff team

That is very optimistic.

is it - 7/8 wins?

They won 5 games last season with a defense that gave up after Salah was fired and with Rodgers playing very poorly for a large part of the season. I'm not proclaiming them a playoff team, I just think they should be in the mix (they're not close to legit title contenders).

Obviously the projection I'm making requires Fields to improve as a passer - and he's shown small steps each season on that. Fields was 4-2 as a starter last season, and it's not like that was some great roster either as evidenced by what happened the rest of the season. Say what you will about his passing, but Fields rushing ability can be a nightmare for DCs.

I think maybe the disconnect is 7 wins and borderline playoff team.

The worst teams in last year's playoffs had 10 wins.

I think it's better to say as you did the number of wins you're projecting.

Are you saying 7.5?

I’m not interested in a semantics argument as to what “borderline” means. I said what I said (and gave numbers) and I’m not sure there was any disconnect on that.

 

[rockaction]

But yes, there's still a lot of work to do - right now, at best, they are a borderline playoff team

That is very optimistic.

is it - 7/8 wins?

They won 5 games last season with a defense that gave up after Salah was fired and with Rodgers playing very poorly for a large part of the season. I'm not proclaiming them a playoff team, I just think they should be in the mix (they're not close to legit title contenders).

Obviously the projection I'm making requires Fields to improve as a passer - and he's shown small steps each season on that. Fields was 4-2 as a starter last season, and it's not like that was some great roster either as evidenced by what happened the rest of the season. Say what you will about his passing, but Fields rushing ability can be a nightmare for DCs.

I think maybe the disconnect is 7 wins and borderline playoff team.

The worst teams in last year's playoffs had 10 wins.

I think it's better to say as you did the number of wins you're projecting.

Are you saying 7.5?

I’m not interested in a semantics argument as to what “borderline” means. I said what I said (and gave numbers) and I’m not sure there was any disconnect on that.

He's not talking about semantics. He's asking for a number of wins. If you want to say 7-9 and feel good about that call, then far be it from me to tell you what to do, but that's two numbers in the range where they're not a borderline playoff team and recent history backs that up.

So that's why there's "disconnect" and why Joe might be pointing out that calling them a seven win team and saying they're "borderline" is pretty much mutually exclusive.

 

[rockaction]

I'd say they win six or seven games. I'd set my over/under at 7.

There. The Jets are a seven-win team next year.

I reserve the right to change the further into free agency and the year as we go along, but I'll provide reasons for doing so. I don't think we're destined to make any big splashes this year, so I'll probably leave it right there.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

But yes, there's still a lot of work to do - right now, at best, they are a borderline playoff team

That is very optimistic.

is it - 7/8 wins?

They won 5 games last season with a defense that gave up after Salah was fired and with Rodgers playing very poorly for a large part of the season. I'm not proclaiming them a playoff team, I just think they should be in the mix (they're not close to legit title contenders).

Obviously the projection I'm making requires Fields to improve as a passer - and he's shown small steps each season on that. Fields was 4-2 as a starter last season, and it's not like that was some great roster either as evidenced by what happened the rest of the season. Say what you will about his passing, but Fields rushing ability can be a nightmare for DCs.

I think maybe the disconnect is 7 wins and borderline playoff team.

The worst teams in last year's playoffs had 10 wins.

I think it's better to say as you did the number of wins you're projecting.

Are you saying 7.5?

I’m not interested in a semantics argument as to what “borderline” means. I said what I said (and gave numbers) and I’m not sure there was any disconnect on that.

He's not talking about semantics. He's asking for a number of wins. If you want to say 7-9 and feel good about that call, then far be it from me to tell you what to do, but that's two numbers in the range where they're not a borderline playoff team and recent history backs that up.

So that's why there's "disconnect" and why Joe might be pointing out that calling them a seven win team and saying they're "borderline" is pretty much mutually exclusive.

In the post he quoted I said 7/8 wins. Then he pointed out how teams in last years’s playoffs all won at least 10 games. That’s not the case every season and even if it was, 8 wins would be considered a “borderline” playoff team imo.

That’s semantics.

 

[Joe Bryant]

But yes, there's still a lot of work to do - right now, at best, they are a borderline playoff team

That is very optimistic.

is it - 7/8 wins?

They won 5 games last season with a defense that gave up after Salah was fired and with Rodgers playing very poorly for a large part of the season. I'm not proclaiming them a playoff team, I just think they should be in the mix (they're not close to legit title contenders).

Obviously the projection I'm making requires Fields to improve as a passer - and he's shown small steps each season on that. Fields was 4-2 as a starter last season, and it's not like that was some great roster either as evidenced by what happened the rest of the season. Say what you will about his passing, but Fields rushing ability can be a nightmare for DCs.

I think maybe the disconnect is 7 wins and borderline playoff team.

The worst teams in last year's playoffs had 10 wins.

I think it's better to say as you did the number of wins you're projecting.

Are you saying 7.5?

I’m not interested in a semantics argument as to what “borderline” means. I said what I said (and gave numbers) and I’m not sure there was any disconnect on that.

He's not talking about semantics. He's asking for a number of wins. If you want to say 7-9 and feel good about that call, then far be it from me to tell you what to do, but that's two numbers in the range where they're not a borderline playoff team and recent history backs that up.

So that's why there's "disconnect" and why Joe might be pointing out that calling them a seven win team and saying they're "borderline" is pretty much mutually exclusive.

In the post he quoted I said 7/8 wins. Then he pointed out how teams in last years’s playoffs all won at least 10 games. That’s not the case every season and even if it was, 8 wins would be considered a “borderline” playoff team imo.

That’s semantics.

That's why it's much better to say a number.

You're saying 7.5 wins for the Jets in 2025?

 

[rockaction]

It's actually pragmatics, not semantics.

 

[RC94]

But yes, there's still a lot of work to do - right now, at best, they are a borderline playoff team

That is very optimistic.

is it - 7/8 wins?

They won 5 games last season with a defense that gave up after Salah was fired and with Rodgers playing very poorly for a large part of the season. I'm not proclaiming them a playoff team, I just think they should be in the mix (they're not close to legit title contenders).

Obviously the projection I'm making requires Fields to improve as a passer - and he's shown small steps each season on that. Fields was 4-2 as a starter last season, and it's not like that was some great roster either as evidenced by what happened the rest of the season. Say what you will about his passing, but Fields rushing ability can be a nightmare for DCs.

I think maybe the disconnect is 7 wins and borderline playoff team.

The worst teams in last year's playoffs had 10 wins.

I think it's better to say as you did the number of wins you're projecting.

Are you saying 7.5?

I’m not interested in a semantics argument as to what “borderline” means. I said what I said (and gave numbers) and I’m not sure there was any disconnect on that.

He's not talking about semantics. He's asking for a number of wins. If you want to say 7-9 and feel good about that call, then far be it from me to tell you what to do, but that's two numbers in the range where they're not a borderline playoff team and recent history backs that up.

So that's why there's "disconnect" and why Joe might be pointing out that calling them a seven win team and saying they're "borderline" is pretty much mutually exclusive.

In the post he quoted I said 7/8 wins. Then he pointed out how teams in last years’s playoffs all won at least 10 games. That’s not the case every season and even if it was, 8 wins would be considered a “borderline” playoff team imo.

That’s semantics.

Agreed. This year it was 10 wins but in 2023 there was a 9 win wild card team (plus the NFC south winner had 9 wins) and in 2022, which is definitely recent history, 8 wins won the NFC South. In 2020, WAS won the NFC East with 7 wins and CHI was an 8 win wild card team.

 

[RC94]

It's actually pragmatics, not semantics.

I learned a new word! I've heard the term before but never looked it up and found it's real meaning.

 

[rockaction]

But yes, there's still a lot of work to do - right now, at best, they are a borderline playoff team

That is very optimistic.

is it - 7/8 wins?

They won 5 games last season with a defense that gave up after Salah was fired and with Rodgers playing very poorly for a large part of the season. I'm not proclaiming them a playoff team, I just think they should be in the mix (they're not close to legit title contenders).

Obviously the projection I'm making requires Fields to improve as a passer - and he's shown small steps each season on that. Fields was 4-2 as a starter last season, and it's not like that was some great roster either as evidenced by what happened the rest of the season. Say what you will about his passing, but Fields rushing ability can be a nightmare for DCs.

I think maybe the disconnect is 7 wins and borderline playoff team.

The worst teams in last year's playoffs had 10 wins.

I think it's better to say as you did the number of wins you're projecting.

Are you saying 7.5?

I’m not interested in a semantics argument as to what “borderline” means. I said what I said (and gave numbers) and I’m not sure there was any disconnect on that.

He's not talking about semantics. He's asking for a number of wins. If you want to say 7-9 and feel good about that call, then far be it from me to tell you what to do, but that's two numbers in the range where they're not a borderline playoff team and recent history backs that up.

So that's why there's "disconnect" and why Joe might be pointing out that calling them a seven win team and saying they're "borderline" is pretty much mutually exclusive.

In the post he quoted I said 7/8 wins. Then he pointed out how teams in last years’s playoffs all won at least 10 games. That’s not the case every season and even if it was, 8 wins would be considered a “borderline” playoff team imo.

That’s semantics.

Agreed. This year it was 10 wins but in 2023 there was a 9 win wild card team (plus the NFC south winner had 9 wins) and in 2022, which is definitely recent history, 8 wins won the NFC South. In 2020, WAS won the NFC East with 7 wins and CHI was an 8 win wild card team.

Almost all those exceptions are division winners aside from the one WC team that still won nine games. Do you think Buffalo wins less than nine games next year? I don't see that happening.

 

[Joe Bryant]

But yes, there's still a lot of work to do - right now, at best, they are a borderline playoff team

That is very optimistic.

is it - 7/8 wins?

They won 5 games last season with a defense that gave up after Salah was fired and with Rodgers playing very poorly for a large part of the season. I'm not proclaiming them a playoff team, I just think they should be in the mix (they're not close to legit title contenders).

Obviously the projection I'm making requires Fields to improve as a passer - and he's shown small steps each season on that. Fields was 4-2 as a starter last season, and it's not like that was some great roster either as evidenced by what happened the rest of the season. Say what you will about his passing, but Fields rushing ability can be a nightmare for DCs.

I think maybe the disconnect is 7 wins and borderline playoff team.

The worst teams in last year's playoffs had 10 wins.

I think it's better to say as you did the number of wins you're projecting.

Are you saying 7.5?

I’m not interested in a semantics argument as to what “borderline” means. I said what I said (and gave numbers) and I’m not sure there was any disconnect on that.

He's not talking about semantics. He's asking for a number of wins. If you want to say 7-9 and feel good about that call, then far be it from me to tell you what to do, but that's two numbers in the range where they're not a borderline playoff team and recent history backs that up.

So that's why there's "disconnect" and why Joe might be pointing out that calling them a seven win team and saying they're "borderline" is pretty much mutually exclusive.

In the post he quoted I said 7/8 wins. Then he pointed out how teams in last years’s playoffs all won at least 10 games. That’s not the case every season and even if it was, 8 wins would be considered a “borderline” playoff team imo.

That’s semantics.

Agreed. This year it was 10 wins but in 2023 there was a 9 win wild card team (plus the NFC south winner had 9 wins) and in 2022, which is definitely recent history, 8 wins won the NFC South. In 2020, WAS won the NFC East with 7 wins and CHI was an 8 win wild card team.

Yes. It's why talking about actual numbers is so much better.

And why Las Vegas won't let you put $100 down on the Jets being a borderline playoff team this year.

 

[jwb]

But yes, there's still a lot of work to do - right now, at best, they are a borderline playoff team

That is very optimistic.

is it - 7/8 wins?

They won 5 games last season with a defense that gave up after Salah was fired and with Rodgers playing very poorly for a large part of the season. I'm not proclaiming them a playoff team, I just think they should be in the mix (they're not close to legit title contenders).

Obviously the projection I'm making requires Fields to improve as a passer - and he's shown small steps each season on that. Fields was 4-2 as a starter last season, and it's not like that was some great roster either as evidenced by what happened the rest of the season. Say what you will about his passing, but Fields rushing ability can be a nightmare for DCs.

I think maybe the disconnect is 7 wins and borderline playoff team.

The worst teams in last year's playoffs had 10 wins.

I think it's better to say as you did the number of wins you're projecting.

Are you saying 7.5?

I’m not interested in a semantics argument as to what “borderline” means. I said what I said (and gave numbers) and I’m not sure there was any disconnect on that.

I agree. To me, saying "borderline playoff team" in the thread during the offseason is not so much projecting wins, but the old "playing meaningful games" in the second half of the season.

The O-line is decent. Add a WR/pass catching TE, and I think the Jets can definitely be competitive and even surprising. No need to spreadsheet it up or make a win prediction.

 

[RC94]

But yes, there's still a lot of work to do - right now, at best, they are a borderline playoff team

That is very optimistic.

is it - 7/8 wins?

They won 5 games last season with a defense that gave up after Salah was fired and with Rodgers playing very poorly for a large part of the season. I'm not proclaiming them a playoff team, I just think they should be in the mix (they're not close to legit title contenders).

Obviously the projection I'm making requires Fields to improve as a passer - and he's shown small steps each season on that. Fields was 4-2 as a starter last season, and it's not like that was some great roster either as evidenced by what happened the rest of the season. Say what you will about his passing, but Fields rushing ability can be a nightmare for DCs.

I think maybe the disconnect is 7 wins and borderline playoff team.

The worst teams in last year's playoffs had 10 wins.

I think it's better to say as you did the number of wins you're projecting.

Are you saying 7.5?

I’m not interested in a semantics argument as to what “borderline” means. I said what I said (and gave numbers) and I’m not sure there was any disconnect on that.

He's not talking about semantics. He's asking for a number of wins. If you want to say 7-9 and feel good about that call, then far be it from me to tell you what to do, but that's two numbers in the range where they're not a borderline playoff team and recent history backs that up.

So that's why there's "disconnect" and why Joe might be pointing out that calling them a seven win team and saying they're "borderline" is pretty much mutually exclusive.

In the post he quoted I said 7/8 wins. Then he pointed out how teams in last years’s playoffs all won at least 10 games. That’s not the case every season and even if it was, 8 wins would be considered a “borderline” playoff team imo.

That’s semantics.

Agreed. This year it was 10 wins but in 2023 there was a 9 win wild card team (plus the NFC south winner had 9 wins) and in 2022, which is definitely recent history, 8 wins won the NFC South. In 2020, WAS won the NFC East with 7 wins and CHI was an 8 win wild card team.

Yes. It's why talking about actual numbers is so much better.

And why Las Vegas won't let you put $100 down on the Jets being a borderline playoff team this year.

I never consider Las Vegas in anything I say or do so that wasn't at all in my thinking. The point is that saying "borderline playoff team" is the same thing as saying 7-9 wins. There was no need for you to mention this in the 1st place.

 

[Joe Bryant]

But yes, there's still a lot of work to do - right now, at best, they are a borderline playoff team

That is very optimistic.

is it - 7/8 wins?

They won 5 games last season with a defense that gave up after Salah was fired and with Rodgers playing very poorly for a large part of the season. I'm not proclaiming them a playoff team, I just think they should be in the mix (they're not close to legit title contenders).

Obviously the projection I'm making requires Fields to improve as a passer - and he's shown small steps each season on that. Fields was 4-2 as a starter last season, and it's not like that was some great roster either as evidenced by what happened the rest of the season. Say what you will about his passing, but Fields rushing ability can be a nightmare for DCs.

I think maybe the disconnect is 7 wins and borderline playoff team.

The worst teams in last year's playoffs had 10 wins.

I think it's better to say as you did the number of wins you're projecting.

Are you saying 7.5?

I’m not interested in a semantics argument as to what “borderline” means. I said what I said (and gave numbers) and I’m not sure there was any disconnect on that.

I agree. To me, saying "borderline playoff team" in the thread during the offseason is not so much projecting wins, but the old "playing meaningful games" in the second half of the season.

The O-line is decent. Add a WR/pass catching TE, and I think the Jets can definitely be competitive and even surprising. No need to spreadsheet it up or make a win prediction.

Thanks. Over / Under on wins is a pretty universal and well understood way to discuss teams though.

I find that kind of precision way more helpful to understand where people see teams. It's also way harder to talk as actual numbers put a point on it.

 

[Joe Bryant]

But yes, there's still a lot of work to do - right now, at best, they are a borderline playoff team

That is very optimistic.

is it - 7/8 wins?

They won 5 games last season with a defense that gave up after Salah was fired and with Rodgers playing very poorly for a large part of the season. I'm not proclaiming them a playoff team, I just think they should be in the mix (they're not close to legit title contenders).

Obviously the projection I'm making requires Fields to improve as a passer - and he's shown small steps each season on that. Fields was 4-2 as a starter last season, and it's not like that was some great roster either as evidenced by what happened the rest of the season. Say what you will about his passing, but Fields rushing ability can be a nightmare for DCs.

I think maybe the disconnect is 7 wins and borderline playoff team.

The worst teams in last year's playoffs had 10 wins.

I think it's better to say as you did the number of wins you're projecting.

Are you saying 7.5?

I’m not interested in a semantics argument as to what “borderline” means. I said what I said (and gave numbers) and I’m not sure there was any disconnect on that.

He's not talking about semantics. He's asking for a number of wins. If you want to say 7-9 and feel good about that call, then far be it from me to tell you what to do, but that's two numbers in the range where they're not a borderline playoff team and recent history backs that up.

So that's why there's "disconnect" and why Joe might be pointing out that calling them a seven win team and saying they're "borderline" is pretty much mutually exclusive.

In the post he quoted I said 7/8 wins. Then he pointed out how teams in last years’s playoffs all won at least 10 games. That’s not the case every season and even if it was, 8 wins would be considered a “borderline” playoff team imo.

That’s semantics.

Agreed. This year it was 10 wins but in 2023 there was a 9 win wild card team (plus the NFC south winner had 9 wins) and in 2022, which is definitely recent history, 8 wins won the NFC South. In 2020, WAS won the NFC East with 7 wins and CHI was an 8 win wild card team.

Yes. It's why talking about actual numbers is so much better.

And why Las Vegas won't let you put $100 down on the Jets being a borderline playoff team this year.

I never consider Las Vegas in anything I say or do so that wasn't at all in my thinking. The point is that saying "borderline playoff team" is the same thing as saying 7-9 wins. There was no need for you to mention this in the 1st place.

No worres and we can disagree there. I do think it's way better to put a number on it. There's significant difference between 7 and 9 wins even.

I just see this a lot in talking about things and I've found it's helpful for both sides to understand when you get clear on the words.

It can also be helpful to be vague on the words too. Works both ways of course.

 

[Joe Bryant]

It's actually pragmatics, not semantics.

I learned a new word! I've heard the term before but never looked it up and found it's real meaning.

FBG Forums for the win. (I said semantics too @RC94 )

 

[RC94]

But yes, there's still a lot of work to do - right now, at best, they are a borderline playoff team

That is very optimistic.

is it - 7/8 wins?

They won 5 games last season with a defense that gave up after Salah was fired and with Rodgers playing very poorly for a large part of the season. I'm not proclaiming them a playoff team, I just think they should be in the mix (they're not close to legit title contenders).

Obviously the projection I'm making requires Fields to improve as a passer - and he's shown small steps each season on that. Fields was 4-2 as a starter last season, and it's not like that was some great roster either as evidenced by what happened the rest of the season. Say what you will about his passing, but Fields rushing ability can be a nightmare for DCs.

I think maybe the disconnect is 7 wins and borderline playoff team.

The worst teams in last year's playoffs had 10 wins.

I think it's better to say as you did the number of wins you're projecting.

Are you saying 7.5?

I’m not interested in a semantics argument as to what “borderline” means. I said what I said (and gave numbers) and I’m not sure there was any disconnect on that.

He's not talking about semantics. He's asking for a number of wins. If you want to say 7-9 and feel good about that call, then far be it from me to tell you what to do, but that's two numbers in the range where they're not a borderline playoff team and recent history backs that up.

So that's why there's "disconnect" and why Joe might be pointing out that calling them a seven win team and saying they're "borderline" is pretty much mutually exclusive.

In the post he quoted I said 7/8 wins. Then he pointed out how teams in last years’s playoffs all won at least 10 games. That’s not the case every season and even if it was, 8 wins would be considered a “borderline” playoff team imo.

That’s semantics.

Agreed. This year it was 10 wins but in 2023 there was a 9 win wild card team (plus the NFC south winner had 9 wins) and in 2022, which is definitely recent history, 8 wins won the NFC South. In 2020, WAS won the NFC East with 7 wins and CHI was an 8 win wild card team.

Almost all those exceptions are division winners aside from the one WC team that still won nine games. Do you think Buffalo wins less than nine games next year? I don't see that happening.

CHI was an 8 win wild card team in 2020. I don't think BUF will win 8 or 9 games and win the division but crazier things have happened. The point is that both division winners and wild card teams in the past 5 years have been as low as 7 wins and and most years there's been 9 wins or less to get into the playoffs, including as a wild card team. Even though 10 wins was the minimum this year, it will probably be more normal if that goes down next year. However, as I said before, saying "borderline playoff team" is the same thing as saying 7-9 wins as recent history has shown.

 

[Kiddnets]

Im fine with the debate - not much else to do until the draft/season starts lol.

Im not sure how the Jets dont have anything in place to develop Fields - its a brand new regime and for all Ive heard most of the coaches are highly regarded. You can certainly look at the past and say prior regimes failed to develop a QB properly but some like Zach Wilson were lousy and beyond developing. Others like Sanchez and Pennington probably maxed out their potential. Darnold didnt have the weapons and was caught in between regimes. Geno was a jackass here and had his own teammate break his jaw - history is history. None of it has anything to do with Fields. As for Woody - sure hes made bad hires but most - except Gase/Idzik - were highly regarded coaches/GMs. Hes not like Jerry Jones who hires lower quality coaches that wont challenge/eclipse him

As for Wilson - tough to be an all pro on a team that loses as much as the Jets but from a talent perspective therer arent a ton of Wrs with his combo of skills and youth - Im pretty confident many teams would jump at a chance to add him. Hes a great weapon - trust me - ive seen Jet QBs throwing to guys who would have had trouble making a college squad

As for record - Im with Doc - nothing wrong with saying borderline playoff team. To me that isnt about record but playing meaningful games in December where they are not eliminated. Jets have been for all intensive purposes toast before Halloween this past decade. If they are playing games that matter in december thats a decent step forward. Buffalo obviously owns the division for now but they arent a super team - and depending on the year teams with shaky records can be in the playoff race to the last few weeks.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

And why Las Vegas won't let you put $100 down on the Jets being a borderline playoff team this year.

Good thing I didn't try to make a bet like that in Vegas and just made a quick throw away line on a message board - that most people seemed to understand.

 

[RC94]

But yes, there's still a lot of work to do - right now, at best, they are a borderline playoff team

That is very optimistic.

is it - 7/8 wins?

They won 5 games last season with a defense that gave up after Salah was fired and with Rodgers playing very poorly for a large part of the season. I'm not proclaiming them a playoff team, I just think they should be in the mix (they're not close to legit title contenders).

Obviously the projection I'm making requires Fields to improve as a passer - and he's shown small steps each season on that. Fields was 4-2 as a starter last season, and it's not like that was some great roster either as evidenced by what happened the rest of the season. Say what you will about his passing, but Fields rushing ability can be a nightmare for DCs.

I think maybe the disconnect is 7 wins and borderline playoff team.

The worst teams in last year's playoffs had 10 wins.

I think it's better to say as you did the number of wins you're projecting.

Are you saying 7.5?

I’m not interested in a semantics argument as to what “borderline” means. I said what I said (and gave numbers) and I’m not sure there was any disconnect on that.

I agree. To me, saying "borderline playoff team" in the thread during the offseason is not so much projecting wins, but the old "playing meaningful games" in the second half of the season.

The O-line is decent. Add a WR/pass catching TE, and I think the Jets can definitely be competitive and even surprising. No need to spreadsheet it up or make a win prediction.

Thanks. Over / Under on wins is a pretty universal and well understood way to discuss teams though.

I find that kind of precision way more helpful to understand where people see teams. It's also way harder to talk as actual numbers put a point on it.

I kind of get that, although I don't gamble so I don't think about things like that, so maybe I'm a little out of touch in that regard. This is a different conversation, but gambling has become way too much lately IMO. Companies like Draft Kings are so predatory. I don't want to delve into this conversation at this point, but just saying why I don't think about gambling and over/under when talking about anything.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

As for record - Im with Doc - nothing wrong with saying borderline playoff team. To me that isnt about record but playing meaningful games in December

That is obviously what I meant by it. I think they have a chance to compete for a playoff slot. Thar's a "borderline" playoff team. I'm not sure why that's controversial or required addiitonal scrutiny but I'm used to it here.

 

[Kiddnets]

As for record - Im with Doc - nothing wrong with saying borderline playoff team. To me that isnt about record but playing meaningful games in December

That is obviously what I meant by it. I think they have a chance to compete for a playoff slot. Thar's a "borderline" playoff team. I'm not sure why that's controversial or required addiitonal scrutiny but I'm used to it here.

on the flip side there is the Gase years where most of us were resigned to the fact that it was a lousy team with awful coaching/GM - Jet fans are very self aware when the team is awful. I think its fair to say that most thought the team would do much better during the Rodgers years so we were as shocked as everyone else when the bottom fell out - I mean they had a ton of prime time games the past 2 years - owners/networks/experts obviously didnt think they would not even make the playoffs.

 

[Joe Bryant]

As for record - Im with Doc - nothing wrong with saying borderline playoff team. To me that isnt about record but playing meaningful games in December

That is obviously what I meant by it. I think they have a chance to compete for a playoff slot. Thar's a "borderline" playoff team. I'm not sure why that's controversial or required addiitonal scrutiny but I'm used to it here.

Not controversial. Just trying to be clear.

And not sure what you're "used to". I always try to be as clear as possible when talking about rankings or projecting teams and players.

Do you think the over-under for the Jets this year is 7.5? Which side of that would you take?

 

[Joe Bryant]

But yes, there's still a lot of work to do - right now, at best, they are a borderline playoff team

That is very optimistic.

is it - 7/8 wins?

They won 5 games last season with a defense that gave up after Salah was fired and with Rodgers playing very poorly for a large part of the season. I'm not proclaiming them a playoff team, I just think they should be in the mix (they're not close to legit title contenders).

Obviously the projection I'm making requires Fields to improve as a passer - and he's shown small steps each season on that. Fields was 4-2 as a starter last season, and it's not like that was some great roster either as evidenced by what happened the rest of the season. Say what you will about his passing, but Fields rushing ability can be a nightmare for DCs.

I think maybe the disconnect is 7 wins and borderline playoff team.

The worst teams in last year's playoffs had 10 wins.

I think it's better to say as you did the number of wins you're projecting.

Are you saying 7.5?

I’m not interested in a semantics argument as to what “borderline” means. I said what I said (and gave numbers) and I’m not sure there was any disconnect on that.

I agree. To me, saying "borderline playoff team" in the thread during the offseason is not so much projecting wins, but the old "playing meaningful games" in the second half of the season.

The O-line is decent. Add a WR/pass catching TE, and I think the Jets can definitely be competitive and even surprising. No need to spreadsheet it up or make a win prediction.

Thanks. Over / Under on wins is a pretty universal and well understood way to discuss teams though.

I find that kind of precision way more helpful to understand where people see teams. It's also way harder to talk as actual numbers put a point on it.

I kind of get that, although I don't gamble so I don't think about things like that, so maybe I'm a little out of touch in that regard. This is a different conversation, but gambling has become way too much lately IMO. Companies like Draft Kings are so predatory. I don't want to delve into this conversation at this point, but just saying why I don't think about gambling and over/under when talking about anything.

Thanks. I don't gamble much either. But I use numbers to talk about next season all the time.

At the bottom line, it's about being precise with words.

For instance, I see people talk (not here) about a WR being a "borderline fantasy starter"

That's easy to say as it covers a huge range of outcomes. Could be WR21 in a 10 team league with 2 WRs or WR37 in a 12 team league with 3 WRs.

I'll ask that person where they rank the player among WRs. That gives a much more clear picture of what they think.

And granted, it's a lot harder to rank than be vague. But I think it helps with understanding.

 

[Kiddnets]

As for record - Im with Doc - nothing wrong with saying borderline playoff team. To me that isnt about record but playing meaningful games in December

That is obviously what I meant by it. I think they have a chance to compete for a playoff slot. Thar's a "borderline" playoff team. I'm not sure why that's controversial or required addiitonal scrutiny but I'm used to it here.

Not controversial. Just trying to be clear.

And not sure what you're "used to". I always try to be as clear as possible when talking about rankings or projecting teams and players.

Do you think the over-under for the Jets this year is 7.5? Which side of that would you take?

just for fun - lets play the Vegas game.

Obviously the smart bet based on last 10 yrs would be to go for the under at 7.5 - however that means we could both be right - depending on timing and how things break, I could lose the bet but the team could still be in the mix for a playoff spot in December which would make it a successful 1st year for the regime to me.

Thats why I dont like those box ins - record to mean doesnt mean a lot until you examine how they got there. there have been 9 win seasons where the team completely collapsed and there is les hope for future....and there are 7 win season where they win the last 5 games and QB/team/staff looks like they figured it out and started to gel which makes it look not so bad.,

What if AG and staff look great, team is prepared and playing well, Fields goes nuts, looks like the real deal but the defense gets some injuries, gives up some close games and/or the kicker misses a few game winners.....Id take that if it finally solves the QB/HC dilemma.

 

[Joe Bryant]

As for record - Im with Doc - nothing wrong with saying borderline playoff team. To me that isnt about record but playing meaningful games in December

That is obviously what I meant by it. I think they have a chance to compete for a playoff slot. Thar's a "borderline" playoff team. I'm not sure why that's controversial or required addiitonal scrutiny but I'm used to it here.

Not controversial. Just trying to be clear.

And not sure what you're "used to". I always try to be as clear as possible when talking about rankings or projecting teams and players.

Do you think the over-under for the Jets this year is 7.5? Which side of that would you take?

just for fun - lets play the Vegas game.

Obviously the smart bet based on last 10 yrs would be to go for the under at 7.5 - however that means we could both be right - depending on timing and how things break, I could lose the bet but the team could still be in the mix for a playoff spot in December which would make it a successful 1st year for the regime to me.

Thats why I dont like those box ins - record to mean doesnt mean a lot until you examine how they got there. there have been 9 win seasons where the team completely collapsed and there is les hope for future....and there are 7 win season where they win the last 5 games and QB/team/staff looks like they figured it out and started to gel which makes it look not so bad.,

What if AG and staff look great, team is prepared and playing well, Fields goes nuts, looks like the real deal but the defense gets some injuries, gives up some close games and/or the kicker misses a few game winners.....Id take that if it finally solves the QB/HC dilemma.

Sure. Wins is the most important part but not all of a season.

I don't know about "both" being right. I'm not taking a side here.

I absolutely think a six-win season with seeing enough to know you have the QB position locked down for the next 3 years and clear hope for the future would be a "successful" season. Every team is different.

It's mostly about wins but not all about it. We agree there for sure.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

As for record - Im with Doc - nothing wrong with saying borderline playoff team. To me that isnt about record but playing meaningful games in December

That is obviously what I meant by it. I think they have a chance to compete for a playoff slot. Thar's a "borderline" playoff team. I'm not sure why that's controversial or required addiitonal scrutiny but I'm used to it here.

Not controversial. Just trying to be clear.

And not sure what you're "used to". I always try to be as clear as possible when talking about rankings or projecting teams and players.

Do you think the over-under for the Jets this year is 7.5? Which side of that would you take?

I wouldn't bet on that over/under because I don't feel strongly either way on March 11 before free agency ends and the draft is held.

All I was trying to say is the Jets could compete for a playoff slot based on what happened last season and what has changed so far.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

At the bottom line, it's about being precise with words.

I was precise with my words for the purpose of what I was trying to discuss. Others jumped in and started asking me for numbers and questioning my use of "borderline" - most seemed to get it.

 

[Joe Bryant]

At the bottom line, it's about being precise with words.

I was precise with my words for the purpose of what I was trying to discuss. Others jumped in and started asking me for numbers and questioning my use of "borderline" - most seemed to get it.

Thanks. That's always the trouble with unclear words like that compared to numbers. And not sure what you're "used to".

If you get any more clarity on how many games the Jets will will this year, please share here as that can be a fun exercise.