Indefinite Tampa Bay Bucs thread: Somehow not on the list of teams to never have won a Super Bowl (2 Viewers)

[Grahamburn]

Todd Monken hired as the OC. Koetter will still call the plays.

Monken came to Southern Miss after serving the previous two seasons as offensive coordinator and quarterbacks coach at Oklahoma State. It was his second stint at OSU, after serving as pass game coordinator and wide receivers coach there from 2002-04.

Under Monken during the 2012 season, the Cowboys – which had a true freshman starting quarterback to start the season and a redshirt freshman as the primary backup – ranked among the nation’s top 10 nationally in scoring offense (4th/44.7 ppg), total offense (5th/548.9 ypg) and passing offense (7th/333.4 ypg).

OSU scored more than 50 points 10 times, broke the 60-point mark in five contests, the 70-point mark twice and the 80-point plateau once in just two years with Monken calling the plays.

Also during that span, the Cowboys set single-season records for points scored, touchdowns scored, first downs, pass attempts, pass completions, passing yards, completion percentage, touchdown passes, yards per play and third-down conversions in 2011, in addition to posting six of the top seven single-game passing marks in school history.

In 2011, Monken served as Brandon Weeden’s position coach, who set single-season school records for passes completed, passes attempted, passing yards, touchdown passes, completion percentage and total offense in 2011. Weeden, who was drafted as the 22nd overall pick in the 2012 NFL Draft by the Cleveland Browns, also set single-game school records for passing yards and total offense under Monken’s watch in 2011. On the national level, Weeden finished the 2011 season second in passing yards, third in total offense, fourth in touchdown passes and ninth in pass efficiency.

Monken’s offense produced the 2011 Biletnikoff Award winner in Justin Blackmon – a 2012 first round draft pick by the Jacksonville Jaguars (fifth overall) – in addition to a pair of All-Americans in Blackmon and offensive lineman Levy Adcock and the Big 12 Offensive Lineman of the Year, Grant Garner.

Prior to returning to OSU for his second time, Monken spent four years as wide receivers coach for the Jacksonville Jaguars of the National Football League. He had been promoted to the role of Jaguars’ quarterback coach immediately before taking the offensive coordinator job at Oklahoma State. In his final year in Jacksonville, the Jaguar trio of Mike Thomas, Marcedes Lewis and Mike Sims-Walker combined to make 167 catches for 2,082 yards and 21 touchdowns with Lewis earning a spot in the Pro Bowl.

 

[Grahamburn]

Also hired Brett Maxie as the DB's coach. Formerly with the Titans during Verner's Pro Bowl season where he played more press man to man. Finally a coaching staff/front office that realizes it's important to play to the strengths of the personnel.

 

[Capella]

Yea I actually think corner won't be a major need this offseason with 2 starting-caliber players in Verner and Banks sitting there after being wasted by Lovie.

Lovie was really really awful.

 

[Quez]

Yea I actually think corner won't be a major need this offseason with 2 starting-caliber players in Verner and Banks sitting there after being wasted by Lovie.

Lovie was really really awful.

These guys sucked last year. Sterling Moore outplayed them.Lovies system had nothing to do with defending basic plays like slants. He didn't have long enough to rebuild the defense. I'm sure the Glaziers were aware of the philosophical defensive changes going from a Schiano D to a Lovie D. They just changed their mind when something they perceived as more valuable came along.

 

[Grahamburn]

I'm not going to argue that the secondary played well this year, but I will argue that their coach didn't consistently put them in position to win on defense.

It's entirely possible Sterling Moore is just a better cover 2 corner than Banks and/or Verner. That's why he was brought in to begin with. With a different scheme that caters to what those players do well maybe they can get back to adequate levels. That's all I'm saying.

It was refreshing to hear Mike Smith say something to the tune of "the defense we run will be dictated by what the players can do."

 

[Premier]

Yea I actually think corner won't be a major need this offseason with 2 starting-caliber players in Verner and Banks sitting there after being wasted by Lovie.

Lovie was really really awful.

These guys sucked last year. Sterling Moore outplayed them.Lovies system had nothing to do with defending basic plays like slants. He didn't have long enough to rebuild the defense. I'm sure the Glaziers were aware of the philosophical defensive changes going from a Schiano D to a Lovie D. They just changed their mind when something they perceived as more valuable came along.

Verner was an NFL all-pro the year before Lovie got a hold of him. Pardon me for thinking maybe his fall had more to do with the antiquated scheme rather than a sudden drop in talent for a 27-year-old proven player.

Lovie was stuck in the 90s coaching a system that is largely irrelevant in today's league and he wasn't willing to bend to the talents of his players. It was so bad that I highly doubt he ever coaches again.

 

[Quez]

They ran more cover 3&4 than actual cover 2 last year. Derrick Brooks has talked about it countless times on the radio. It's not Lovies cover 2 that was the problem.

 

[Capella]

They ran more cover 3&4 than actual cover 2 last year. Derrick Brooks has talked about it countless times on the radio. It's not Lovies cover 2 that was the problem.

Whether it was cover 2, 3, 4 or 15 they ran far too much zone and were way too passive for the personnel they had. Covers 2-4 just refer to the zone that is being covered by certain people.

 

[massraider]

I wonder what Chicago will do with Forte?

Wave bye and get a 4th round comp pick is my guess.

Actually, that assumes they don't sign any big ticket players themselves.

 

[Capella]

Light unloaded on Lovie today:

Appearing on SiriusXM NFL Radio, Licht talked about the task of providing players for new defensive coordinator Mike Smith.

[Mike Smith] is more of a, which is a great thing for a scout and for the G.M., is that hes more about fitting the pieces into a scheme, utilizing the players as what their best attributes are, Licht said. And fitting the scheme around them, as opposed to trying to find the schematic fit [while scouting]. And thats music to my ears. Its a lot easier to do that. And you know, the intelligent coaches can do that. So thats going to be a good thing for us.

The biggest knock on Smith is he wouldnt make his system hit the talents of his players, which resulted in the jettisoning of cornerback Darrelle Revis and safeties Dashon Goldson and Mark Barron. All three have done well-to-quite-well elsewhere.

 

[Grahamburn]

The truth hurts.

Licht was just trying to praise Mike Smith, but it definitely came off as a dig against Lovie. His reluctance to move away from his scheme likely cost him his career as a head coach in the NFL.

 

[Quez]

If anything it exposes the Glaziers for the Lovie hire. They either didn't do their due diligence, or they changed their minds 2 years in. Lovie was an old, established coach. He said the D was going to be Tampa 2 immediately. He was acquiring personnel to run his system, because I think he felt he had 3 years. None of this should of ever been a surprise to the Glaziers. Licht is just a Glazier do boy. I don't put much into anything he says.

 

[Capella]

Weird to find anybody supporting Lovie still. Good for you, quez.

 

[Grahamburn]

No "i" in Glazer's. Just saying.

 

[Quez]

I just don't think it's fair to dump on a guy that turned the nose up on the organization. There was an obvious philosophical difference in Schianos D and Lovies. Everyone should have expected, especially ownership, that it would take time to acquire the personnel to run the system you hired him to run.

Now Mike Smith is some sort of defensive guru that can make a great defense out of any players.

 

[bucsbaby]

It was a bad move by the Glazers to hire Lovie, but at some point it is a sunk cost and you have to move on. Jettisoning 3 good players from the secondary and ending up with a garbage secondary isn't the way to win football games, especially in today's NFL.

 

[Quez]

It was a bad move by the Glazers to hire Lovie, but at some point it is a sunk cost and you have to move on. Jettisoning 3 good players from the secondary and ending up with a garbage secondary isn't the way to win football games, especially in today's NFL.

They got rid of Revis becasue of the cap. That wasn't sustainable. Gholston was an overpriced safety who just racked up penalties. And Mark Barron couldn't cover worth a crap. He ended up changing positions in Stl to LB. I definitely wouldn't call him a good secondary player. He might be a decent LB, but woukd you of started him over Lavonte David?

 

[Quez]

Bucs bringing back V-Jax at 9.8 mil per year.

These are exactly the kind of short term decisions I was talking about. The Glazers have shown that you must win now, so why would a GM or coach care about the salary cap?

That being said, I do like V-Jax, and I think he still has a few years left. However, 9.8 mil... Why not try and restructure him for 3. @ 6mil? They could of cut him, and not lost anything. Would Vincent Jackson command nearly 10mil in an open market? I highly doubt it.

 

[Quez]

Pewter report has breaking, Doug Martin in contract extension talks.

I read in the comments that Martin in ineligible for the tag. You can't use it on a rookie in his 4th year if you decline the 5th year option.

 

[Capella]

It was a bad move by the Glazers to hire Lovie, but at some point it is a sunk cost and you have to move on. Jettisoning 3 good players from the secondary and ending up with a garbage secondary isn't the way to win football games, especially in today's NFL.

They got rid of Revis becasue of the cap. That wasn't sustainable. Gholston was an overpriced safety who just racked up penalties. And Mark Barron couldn't cover worth a crap. He ended up changing positions in Stl to LB. I definitely wouldn't call him a good secondary player. He might be a decent LB, but woukd you of started him over Lavonte David?

They didn't get rid of Revis because of the cap. That's not true at all.

 

[Quez]

After reading this I think I may have finally shifted my stance,

One of those sources vehemently defended former defensive coordinator Leslie Fraizer, who said that Frazier got a raw deal when Smith stripped him of his play-calling duties and took control of the defense last year, especially after the Bucs defense showed improvement at the end of the 2014 season.

Everybody could see the progress they were making at the end of that year, the source said. I dont know why Lovie would do that other than ego. It backfired.

Another source that was familiar with the Bucs revolving door in the secondary after watching the team said that Smiths quick hook was ridiculous and that he damaged the confidence of players like Johnthan Banks and Alterraun Verner.

That source said that cornerbacks are taught to have a short-term memory and to move on to the next play as early as Pop Warner and high school football, but the impatient Smith didnt apply that universal mindset in Tampa Bay. In fact, he did the opposite.

After both Banks and Verner returned to the starting lineup after being demoted, neither was aggressive in coverage and played too conservatively afraid to take a chance on making a play on the ball and getting beat.

Verner had nine pass breakups and two interceptions when Frazier was calling the plays in 2014, but only had four pass breakups and one pick last year under Smith. Banks had 10 pass breakups and four interceptions, including a pick-six, in 2014 under Frazier, while Banks had just one pass breakup and no interceptions under Smith in 2015.

 

[Quez]

It was a bad move by the Glazers to hire Lovie, but at some point it is a sunk cost and you have to move on. Jettisoning 3 good players from the secondary and ending up with a garbage secondary isn't the way to win football games, especially in today's NFL.

They got rid of Revis becasue of the cap. That wasn't sustainable. Gholston was an overpriced safety who just racked up penalties. And Mark Barron couldn't cover worth a crap. He ended up changing positions in Stl to LB. I definitely wouldn't call him a good secondary player. He might be a decent LB, but woukd you of started him over Lavonte David?

They didn't get rid of Revis because of the cap. That's not true at all.

A 16mil per year CB didn't fit in the plans for a team that was rebuilding. Did they absolutely have to cut him to get under? No, but that was a long term play that had to be done. There is no guarantee he would have resigned anyways, so at the most he would of had a better D in 2014. A year with no OC.

 

[Capella]

It was a bad move by the Glazers to hire Lovie, but at some point it is a sunk cost and you have to move on. Jettisoning 3 good players from the secondary and ending up with a garbage secondary isn't the way to win football games, especially in today's NFL.

They got rid of Revis becasue of the cap. That wasn't sustainable. Gholston was an overpriced safety who just racked up penalties. And Mark Barron couldn't cover worth a crap. He ended up changing positions in Stl to LB. I definitely wouldn't call him a good secondary player. He might be a decent LB, but woukd you of started him over Lavonte David?

They didn't get rid of Revis because of the cap. That's not true at all.

A 16mil per year CB didn't fit in the plans for a team that was rebuilding. Did they absolutely have to cut him to get under? No, but that was a long term play that had to be done. There is no guarantee he would have resigned anyways, so at the most he would of had a better D in 2014. A year with no OC.

They cut him to sign McCown, Verner, Collins and Michael Johnson. Lovie's hand picked guys. That's the only reason.

 

[Grahamburn]

Good news on VJax. Must mean his knee is ok at least.

 

[bucsbaby]

It was a bad move by the Glazers to hire Lovie, but at some point it is a sunk cost and you have to move on. Jettisoning 3 good players from the secondary and ending up with a garbage secondary isn't the way to win football games, especially in today's NFL.

They got rid of Revis becasue of the cap. That wasn't sustainable. Gholston was an overpriced safety who just racked up penalties. And Mark Barron couldn't cover worth a crap. He ended up changing positions in Stl to LB. I definitely wouldn't call him a good secondary player. He might be a decent LB, but woukd you of started him over Lavonte David?

They didn't get rid of Revis because of the cap. That's not true at all.

A 16mil per year CB didn't fit in the plans for a team that was rebuilding. Did they absolutely have to cut him to get under? No, but that was a long term play that had to be done. There is no guarantee he would have resigned anyways, so at the most he would of had a better D in 2014. A year with no OC.

They cut him to sign McCown, Verner, Collins and Michael Johnson. Lovie's hand picked guys. That's the only reason.

:X

 

[Quez]

Bucs interested in Braxton Miller. He is being pegged in the 3rd round.

 

[Capella]

Bucs interested in Braxton Miller. He is being pegged in the 3rd round.

I saw two mocks this week that had him at the back of round 1. I would be surprised if he makes it to 40 for us.

 

[Capella]

Sounds likely that Dungy makes the hall tomorrow. Gonna be weird when the bucs Twitter/Facebook accounts are going nuts about that and he's not even in our ring of honor yet. ?

 

[fantasy stud]

Sounds likely that Dungy makes the hall tomorrow. Gonna be weird when the bucs Twitter/Facebook accounts are going nuts about that and he's not even in our ring of honor yet.

Was he really hall of fame? I don't see it.

 

[fantasy stud]

Sounds likely that Dungy makes the hall tomorrow. Gonna be weird when the bucs Twitter/Facebook accounts are going nuts about that and he's not even in our ring of honor yet.

Was he really hall of fame? I don't see it.

#22 in all time wins

9-10 in the playoffs

went to one super bowl.

 

[Capella]

I'm not saying he totally deserves it, but from what I am reading he is pretty likely tomorrow.

 

[fantasy stud]

I'm not a Dungy hater. The Bucs and him were a perfect fit. They already had a roster of some good young players and he was a perfect guy to develop them. He also was what Indy needed. A guy to make the defense adequate while they had an amazing offense. He was a good coach. I just don't think he was a hall of fame coach.

 

[Capella]

I'm not a Dungy hater. The Bucs and him were a perfect fit. They already had a roster of some good young players and he was a perfect guy to develop them. He also was what Indy needed. A guy to make the defense adequate while they had an amazing offense. He was a good coach. I just don't think he was a hall of fame coach.

Yea but turning around the Bucs who hadn't had a winning season in 15 years (not even 8-8) is almost as impressive as winning a super bowl. That's part of his case. And also he was a trail blazer for black coaches. It's not an apples to apples thing. He's pretty damn deserving IMO

 

[fantasy stud]

I see your point on the race significance. He inherited a 7-9 Bucs team with the a lot of young talent. He was a big part of the turnaround, but there is an argument to be made that a little bit of it was right place, right time.

 

[Capella]

There were future hall of famers there when he got there, sure. I would also suggest that if another coach came in at that time, they wouldn't be headed to the Hall. Lynch damn near got cut once before dungy arrived.

 

[ShamrockPride]

I'll say this...was watching NFLN post-game. Talib was on. Really depressing as a Bucs fan to see the last two years former wasted FA signings in Revis and Talib as key parts to SB winning defenses. Like wow our coaches sucked.

 

[Capella]

I'll say this...was watching NFLN post-game. Talib was on. Really depressing as a Bucs fan to see the last two years former wasted FA signings in Revis and Talib as key parts to SB winning defenses. Like wow our coaches sucked.

Yea it's a terrible franchise. Sucks.

 

[Quez]

It was amazing how many people in Tampa were 100% for kicking Talib to the curb. Yes he had some behavior problems, but he was always an elite CB. Dominick let that guy walk for almost nothing.

You don't draft one of the best corners in the game and let him walk.

Then we miss the playoffs because EJ Biggers got torched the rest of the season. The same clowns who were glad we got rid of Talib were bashing EJ Biggers. A guy who should have never been a starting CB.

 

[Grahamburn]

To be fair, Talib was in the last year of his deal and there was no way they were going to re-sign him after repeated run ins with the law, suspensions for drugs, etc. Dominik still managed to get a 4th round pick (William Gholston) for him from New England.

Dumping Revis for nothing is a different story.

 

[Quez]

Nobody was going to trade for Revis with that absurd contract. I'm sure that Licht would have listened if offers were pouring in.

They should have at least tried to franchise then trade Talib. That was a late 4th too. Yet, we went a gave up a 1st for a CB that was banged up for the begining half the season.

 

[ShamrockPride]

Lol, my B. Just reread my post. Dunno why I called Aqib a wasted FA signing. Same point though. Guys we had, and just couldn't get to produce for one reason or another, at least not on a championship level.

 

[Quez]

Earlier in Talibs career he was a little too aggressive trying to get interceptions. A few of those led to getting beat for TDs. He was always a top 5-10 corner though imo.

 

[Grahamburn]

Nobody was going to trade for Revis with that absurd contract. I'm sure that Licht would have listened if offers were pouring in.

They should have at least tried to franchise then trade Talib. That was a late 4th too. Yet, we went a gave up a 1st for a CB that was banged up for the begining half the season.

They should have kept Revis. His contract was exceptional. I think he played every game that year and was quite good. I know he was damn good after he was released.

So, franchise Talib at whatever that number was and then trade him? I'm sure teams would have been knocking the doors down for a malcontent CB with a $10M+ cap hit for one year of service and major off the field issues. Come on, man.

 

[Grahamburn]

Nearly a month after former Bucs’ director of player personnel Jon Robinson earned a promotion to become the next general manager of the Tennessee Titans, Tampa Bay has filled the front office vacancy.

On Monday the team confirmed the hiring of Broncos’ national scout John Spytek. The hire, taken from the Super Bowl champions, indicates that the Bucs conducted a thorough search and waited for every possible candidate to be available. General manager Jason Licht considered Robinson to be his right hand man, so it’s no surprise that Tampa Bay went after an experienced candidate from a successful organization to replace him.

Spytek, who served as Denver’s southwest regional scout in 2013 before being promoted to a national scout in 2014, has spent 10 years in an NFL front office. In three seasons in Cleveland as director of college scouting (2010-2012), the Browns had six All-Rookie team selections and drafted four players who made the Pro Bowl in 2013.

 

[Grahamburn]

Peter King:  What Jameis Learned

 

[Quez]

There was a story out today about how Koetter wanted Marcus Mariotta.  I guess you have to appreciate his honesty, but that was probably better off not said.

 

[Grahamburn]

There was a story out today about how Koetter wanted Marcus Mariotta.  I guess you have to appreciate his honesty, but that was probably better off not said.

I originally thought the hire of Koetter as OC meant the team was all in on Marcus as DK had ties to Oregon and ran a similar offense.  The fact that he was honest about it only means he's 100% comfortable with Jameis now.  There's no way he says that if Jameis had a bad rookie year.

 

[Grahamburn]

Mario Williams officially released.

 

[Grahamburn]

Mankins retiring. Bruce Carter likely released. 

Really wish this free agency class was better, because this team has a bunch of money and they need to go all in NOW before its time to pay Jameis, Evans, Marpet, Smith, and Kwon. 

 

[Quez]

So Charles Johnson & Ayers both left without contracts, and the LB decided to remain in Detroit.  Are we going to land a single defensive free agent?  Here is what I think we need,

2DE

1SLB

2CB

1Safety

1WR

We might be able to get by with just 1 DE & CB if Jaque Smith comes back, and Banks or Verner improve.  Either way we could use depth.