Irons to overtake Rudi as starter THIS year? (1 Viewer)

[mdog1967]

I was thoroughly unimpressed with Irons play last season at Auburn.I would be surprised if he supplants Rudi, furthermoreI would be equally as surprised if he is able to carry the load in the NFL.

I'm just gonna start cloneing Ron Mexico's comments. I see eye to eye with this dude on just about every issue. I'm not a big Rudi fan but come on he's been a borderline #1 back for the last few years. Irons has a lot to show to overtake Rudi.

 

[gianmarco]

sporting news must have all the insider RB info....lol...

fred taylor top 5!!!

http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/positional-rankings/OFF/RB

that is some good weed they are smoking over there...

That was as an NFL running back, not for fantasy rankings. As an NFL RB, Taylor is actually a fantastic talent. I don't think top 5, but awfully close. He was overshadowed last year because of all the hype MJD got, but the guy did a fantastic job with the # of carries he got. He's actually a great RB to watch run. At the same time, I also like watching Warrick Dunn run and find both similar, although Taylor is even better in my mind. It's a shame he couldn't have stayed healthier earlier on in his career. Also, his "fragile" label I think is also a bit overboard as he really hasn't missed that many games, especially compared to a lot of other RB's.

 

[shadyridr]

If there's ever a doubt, take the RB on the beter team. Rudi wins hands down. Even if Gore did stay healthy and produce better FFL numbers, the overall difference would be minimal, but the risk is much higher with him. On top of that, look at Rudi's playoff SoS.

So 8-8 vs 7-9 is hands down a better team? Especially considering the improvements made on the 49ers and the losses on the Bengals. Also consider the divisions they play in. 49ers face ARI, STL, and SEA run defenses twice while Bengals face Pit and Bal twice.

 

[BeTheMatch]

I'm staying out of this argument, except to say that those who think there is "no chance" Irons ends up with the job need only look back to 2003 when the very same Rudi Johnson took the job from Corey Dillon and never looked back. Dillon had just put up six straight 1,100+ yard seasons, with the last three being 1,435, 1,315, and 1,311 yards. And Rudi was a 4th rounder, lower than Irons by two rounds.

Before a bunch of you post all the reasons this is different from then, just remember that every situation is different. That's not the point. The point is that teams DO make changes when they think they have a reason to do so. What message board posters believe about a player means squat. It's what a team's front office and coaching staff believe, and if they decide they need another style in there, one with more speed, home run ability, and receiving ability, they could make a change. They obviously like Irons or they wouldn't have taken him in the 2nd round. Again, it's their opinion of him and of Rudi, and not that of a message board, that matters.

I'm not saying Irons will replace Johnson, I'm saying that being completely closed off to the possibility (some of you angrily -- likely Rudi owners) is a mistake. Don't be so sure of yourselves.

Dillon's injury opened the door for Rudi. No one in this thread - and certainly not the comments made by the beat writer that were the impetus for this thread - talk about Irons taking over in the event of an injury to Rudi. He was saying that Irons could possibly start over a healthy Rudi, and that's what has caused the debate. So you're talking apples and oranges here.

 

[Buckna]

I'm staying out of this argument, except to say that those who think there is "no chance" Irons ends up with the job need only look back to 2003 when the very same Rudi Johnson took the job from Corey Dillon and never looked back. Dillon had just put up six straight 1,100+ yard seasons, with the last three being 1,435, 1,315, and 1,311 yards. And Rudi was a 4th rounder, lower than Irons by two rounds.

Before a bunch of you post all the reasons this is different from then, just remember that every situation is different. That's not the point. The point is that teams DO make changes when they think they have a reason to do so. What message board posters believe about a player means squat. It's what a team's front office and coaching staff believe, and if they decide they need another style in there, one with more speed, home run ability, and receiving ability, they could make a change. They obviously like Irons or they wouldn't have taken him in the 2nd round. Again, it's their opinion of him and of Rudi, and not that of a message board, that matters.

I'm not saying Irons will replace Johnson, I'm saying that being completely closed off to the possibility (some of you angrily -- likely Rudi owners) is a mistake. Don't be so sure of yourselves.

Dillon's injury opened the door for Rudi. No one in this thread - and certainly not the comments made by the beat writer that were the impetus for this thread - talk about Irons taking over in the event of an injury to Rudi. He was saying that Irons could possibly start over a healthy Rudi, and that's what has caused the debate. So you're talking apples and oranges here.

Dillon was also a locker room cancer for the Bengals during the 2003 season and wore out his welcome. He publicly asked to be traded during the middle of the 2003 season. They were going to get rid of Dillon no matter if Rudi was there or not.

 

[Couch Potato]

I'm staying out of this argument, except to say that those who think there is "no chance" Irons ends up with the job need only look back to 2003 when the very same Rudi Johnson took the job from Corey Dillon and never looked back. Dillon had just put up six straight 1,100+ yard seasons, with the last three being 1,435, 1,315, and 1,311 yards. And Rudi was a 4th rounder, lower than Irons by two rounds.

Before a bunch of you post all the reasons this is different from then, just remember that every situation is different. That's not the point. The point is that teams DO make changes when they think they have a reason to do so. What message board posters believe about a player means squat. It's what a team's front office and coaching staff believe, and if they decide they need another style in there, one with more speed, home run ability, and receiving ability, they could make a change. They obviously like Irons or they wouldn't have taken him in the 2nd round. Again, it's their opinion of him and of Rudi, and not that of a message board, that matters.

I'm not saying Irons will replace Johnson, I'm saying that being completely closed off to the possibility (some of you angrily -- likely Rudi owners) is a mistake. Don't be so sure of yourselves.

Dillon's injury opened the door for Rudi. No one in this thread - and certainly not the comments made by the beat writer that were the impetus for this thread - talk about Irons taking over in the event of an injury to Rudi. He was saying that Irons could possibly start over a healthy Rudi, and that's what has caused the debate. So you're talking apples and oranges here.

please read the parts I've highlighted again, in your post and then mine. Thanks.

 

[BeTheMatch]

I'm staying out of this argument, except to say that those who think there is "no chance" Irons ends up with the job need only look back to 2003 when the very same Rudi Johnson took the job from Corey Dillon and never looked back. Dillon had just put up six straight 1,100+ yard seasons, with the last three being 1,435, 1,315, and 1,311 yards. And Rudi was a 4th rounder, lower than Irons by two rounds.

Before a bunch of you post all the reasons this is different from then, just remember that every situation is different. That's not the point. The point is that teams DO make changes when they think they have a reason to do so. What message board posters believe about a player means squat. It's what a team's front office and coaching staff believe, and if they decide they need another style in there, one with more speed, home run ability, and receiving ability, they could make a change. They obviously like Irons or they wouldn't have taken him in the 2nd round. Again, it's their opinion of him and of Rudi, and not that of a message board, that matters.

I'm not saying Irons will replace Johnson, I'm saying that being completely closed off to the possibility (some of you angrily -- likely Rudi owners) is a mistake. Don't be so sure of yourselves.

Dillon's injury opened the door for Rudi. No one in this thread - and certainly not the comments made by the beat writer that were the impetus for this thread - talk about Irons taking over in the event of an injury to Rudi. He was saying that Irons could possibly start over a healthy Rudi, and that's what has caused the debate. So you're talking apples and oranges here.

please read the parts I've highlighted again, in your post and then mine. Thanks.

Please re-read the entire thread, and you'll see that, as I said, your post really isn't relevant in any way. Thanks.

 

[DropKick]

Wow, you guys are all SO sure of yourselves.

I don't know more than the averge schmo about Irons, but I can say that Rudi has never been all that impressive to me, just by watching him play. He's competent, but not really great at anything. I'm not really sure how everyone can be so certain he's in no jeopardy of losing his job when he was fairly unimpressive last year. A 3.8 average for a guy in his prime on a good team with a great passing attack sure seems to be something that the coaches might want to look at addressing, particularly when his backups are averaging more than 5 and a half per carry.

I know stats don't tell the whole story, they are misleading, etc, etc, but it seems to me this team is looking for something it isn't getting from Rudi.

So.. you admit you don't know what you're talking about! Seriously, which backup (with a 5.5+ average) are you so enamored with? The oft injured Perry with his 10 carries? Or Watson with just 25 carries on the season (less than two a games)? Do you really feel you can extrapolate their "averages" to a full workload? If Watson was capable of sustaining that rate, he would be on the field instead of Rudi.

Perry's injury history is well documented. Watson (who I like) is 29 years old now. A good player but not a long term option. The Bengals don't need a replacement for Rudi. He is still productive and durable. They need a good backup and probably a good 3rd down option. You can speculate their intentions all day but there should be no surprise they drafted a RB.

 

[remote controller]

One thing for certain, Irons will no longer be a cheap cuff to Rudi. One thing I liked about picking Rudi at around 9 or 10 in the darft was that his cuff came very cheap. That now changes and you will have to spend higher to get Irons now.

To the thread premise: Rudi will start...........Rudi will get his 1300 yards, and 12 Tds..........Irons will spell him.........Perry will be playing with him self in the training room.

 

[EBF]

I'm staying out of this argument, except to say that those who think there is "no chance" Irons ends up with the job need only look back to 2003 when the very same Rudi Johnson took the job from Corey Dillon and never looked back. Dillon had just put up six straight 1,100+ yard seasons, with the last three being 1,435, 1,315, and 1,311 yards. And Rudi was a 4th rounder, lower than Irons by two rounds.

Before a bunch of you post all the reasons this is different from then, just remember that every situation is different. That's not the point. The point is that teams DO make changes when they think they have a reason to do so. What message board posters believe about a player means squat. It's what a team's front office and coaching staff believe, and if they decide they need another style in there, one with more speed, home run ability, and receiving ability, they could make a change. They obviously like Irons or they wouldn't have taken him in the 2nd round. Again, it's their opinion of him and of Rudi, and not that of a message board, that matters.

I'm not saying Irons will replace Johnson, I'm saying that being completely closed off to the possibility (some of you angrily -- likely Rudi owners) is a mistake. Don't be so sure of yourselves.

Dillon's injury opened the door for Rudi. No one in this thread - and certainly not the comments made by the beat writer that were the impetus for this thread - talk about Irons taking over in the event of an injury to Rudi. He was saying that Irons could possibly start over a healthy Rudi, and that's what has caused the debate. So you're talking apples and oranges here.

please read the parts I've highlighted again, in your post and then mine. Thanks.

Please re-read the entire thread, and you'll see that, as I said, your post really isn't relevant in any way. Thanks.

Actually, it's completely relevant. The potato was just pointing out that the posters who are acting like there is a 0% chance of Irons replacing Rudi should be aware that the unexpected can, does, and will happen every season in fantasy football. So while there might not be a reason to expect Irons to pass Rudi in 2007, it's certainly within the realm of possibility. One of the things I've noticed about FF is that every season brings 2-3 "huh?" players. Last year we had Colston, Betts, Jones-Drew, Cotchery, and Furrey. Before that we had Droughns, Willie Parker, Marc Bulger, Priest Holmes, Tom Brady, Chad Johnson, TJ Houshmandzadeh, and Donald Driver. Most of these guys were not expected to emerge when they did.

You can pretty much bank on a hanful of unexpected things happening next season. Maybe DJ Hackett will post 1,300 receiving yards. Maybe Jerious Norwood will be a top 10 back. Maybe Derek Hagan will have 1,000 receiving yards.

Are these things likely? Probably not, but you never know. In the case of Irons, you have to think there's a realistic chance of him becoming the starter in Cincinnati at some point in the next few years.

 

[cstu]

I'm staying out of this argument, except to say that those who think there is "no chance" Irons ends up with the job need only look back to 2003 when the very same Rudi Johnson took the job from Corey Dillon and never looked back. Dillon had just put up six straight 1,100+ yard seasons, with the last three being 1,435, 1,315, and 1,311 yards. And Rudi was a 4th rounder, lower than Irons by two rounds.

Before a bunch of you post all the reasons this is different from then, just remember that every situation is different. That's not the point. The point is that teams DO make changes when they think they have a reason to do so. What message board posters believe about a player means squat. It's what a team's front office and coaching staff believe, and if they decide they need another style in there, one with more speed, home run ability, and receiving ability, they could make a change. They obviously like Irons or they wouldn't have taken him in the 2nd round. Again, it's their opinion of him and of Rudi, and not that of a message board, that matters.

I'm not saying Irons will replace Johnson, I'm saying that being completely closed off to the possibility (some of you angrily -- likely Rudi owners) is a mistake. Don't be so sure of yourselves.

Dillon's injury opened the door for Rudi. No one in this thread - and certainly not the comments made by the beat writer that were the impetus for this thread - talk about Irons taking over in the event of an injury to Rudi. He was saying that Irons could possibly start over a healthy Rudi, and that's what has caused the debate. So you're talking apples and oranges here.

please read the parts I've highlighted again, in your post and then mine. Thanks.

Irons is a great long-term hold, but he's behind a guy signed through 2009 who has stayed healthy and hasn't been a problem in the locker room. I don't think Rudi is all that talented, but he has done a respectable job and Irons wasn't drafted to replace him. For Irons to become the starter he would have to play extremely well and Rudi would have to get injured or otherwise run himself out of town.

 

[Buckna]

IMHO, Potato is addressing an audience that doesn't really exist unless you count this guy:

I think the chance of Irons taking Rudi's job are zero.

Which I don't. Maybe the guys having the flame war on page 2 on whether Rudi is a top 10 back would count.However, the vast majority of posters have had qualifiers such as "anythings possible," "I would be surprised," "perhaps if there's an injury, "maybe in 2008," etc. Only the most irrational of posters (Lhucks perhaps? j/k) would argue that something is completely outside the realm of possibility. I was under the impression that most posters operate under the assumption that yes, anything can happen, but the reason we are here is to argue the probablity and possibility of it happening and to support our arguments either way. If we have to spend time making qualifiers that yes, maybe something could happen or could change instead of why it will happen or will change it will make for a lot of wasted time and some boring threads.~~~~~Back to the thread topic...FWIW, I believe Irons was drafted to mainly to give them depth with the upside of possibly being Rudi's future replacement. Rudi's carries and age are starting to get up there, Watson is no spring chicken at 29 and Perry can't even get on the field, much less stay on it. Cinci has typically been a team that doesn't need to invest a lot at RB as they have a long history of taking lower tier guys or cast offs and getting success out of them going back to the 80's (Rudi - 4th rounder, Dillon - 2nd round, and guys like Harold Green, Icky Woods, James Brooks - 1st round bust for the Chargers.) So I think they are looking to Irons to possibly 1 day replace Rudi. As long as Rudi stays an Ironman and continues to run well, that day is still a season or two off in the future though.If I owned Rudi in dynasty I would certainly be looking at getting Irons as a backup as I think Perry is done. I wouldn't want to pay thru the nose though since it's more likely that Rudi has another solid year and Irons value comes down. Irons will probably go somewhere in the 5-8 range of a rookie draft and command a nice premium right now.My quick 2 cents.

 

[WarRedbirds]

This is crazy talk...

 

[cobalt_27]

In the case of Irons, you have to think there's a realistic chance of him becoming the starter in Cincinnati at some point in the next few years.

Umm... No, actually I don't.This thread is absurd.

 

[EBF]

Good Irons highlights here:

Looks like an NFL back to me.

 

[Balco]

I am a huge Kenny Irons fan.

Auburn backs (aside from high picks Brown and Williams) always seem to be extremely undervalued when the NFL draft comes along. Guys like Steven Davis, Rudi Johnson, and Irons, all have great years and are talked about non stop. Then they come back for another year, put up good stats, although not as good as the year before, and become forgotten men. I think this trend continues with Irons, he is going to be a very good NFL back.

 

[Kleck.]

Good Irons highlights here:

 

[Family Matters]

I'm staying out of this argument, except to say that those who think there is "no chance" Irons ends up with the job need only look back to 2003 when the very same Rudi Johnson took the job from Corey Dillon and never looked back. Dillon had just put up six straight 1,100+ yard seasons, with the last three being 1,435, 1,315, and 1,311 yards. And Rudi was a 4th rounder, lower than Irons by two rounds.

Before a bunch of you post all the reasons this is different from then, just remember that every situation is different. That's not the point. The point is that teams DO make changes when they think they have a reason to do so. What message board posters believe about a player means squat. It's what a team's front office and coaching staff believe, and if they decide they need another style in there, one with more speed, home run ability, and receiving ability, they could make a change. They obviously like Irons or they wouldn't have taken him in the 2nd round. Again, it's their opinion of him and of Rudi, and not that of a message board, that matters.

I'm not saying Irons will replace Johnson, I'm saying that being completely closed off to the possibility (some of you angrily -- likely Rudi owners) is a mistake. Don't be so sure of yourselves.

Dillon's injury opened the door for Rudi. No one in this thread - and certainly not the comments made by the beat writer that were the impetus for this thread - talk about Irons taking over in the event of an injury to Rudi. He was saying that Irons could possibly start over a healthy Rudi, and that's what has caused the debate. So you're talking apples and oranges here.

please read the parts I've highlighted again, in your post and then mine. Thanks.

Please re-read the entire thread, and you'll see that, as I said, your post really isn't relevant in any way. Thanks.

Actually, it's completely relevant. The potato was just pointing out that the posters who are acting like there is a 0% chance of Irons replacing Rudi should be aware that the unexpected can, does, and will happen every season in fantasy football. So while there might not be a reason to expect Irons to pass Rudi in 2007, it's certainly within the realm of possibility. One of the things I've noticed about FF is that every season brings 2-3 "huh?" players. Last year we had Colston, Betts, Jones-Drew, Cotchery, and Furrey. Before that we had Droughns, Willie Parker, Marc Bulger, Priest Holmes, Tom Brady, Chad Johnson, TJ Houshmandzadeh, and Donald Driver. Most of these guys were not expected to emerge when they did.

You can pretty much bank on a hanful of unexpected things happening next season. Maybe DJ Hackett will post 1,300 receiving yards. Maybe Jerious Norwood will be a top 10 back. Maybe Derek Hagan will have 1,000 receiving yards.

Are these things likely? Probably not, but you never know. In the case of Irons, you have to think there's a realistic chance of him becoming the starter in Cincinnati at some point in the next few years.

Just to clarify, sure "anything" can happen. With Couch post I wasn't taking the approach that "anything is possible" is what folks were saying. The original poster is refering to the article of a beat writer declaring Irons the starter based on Irons being a better NFL back and will become the starter this year becuase Rudi isn't that good after laste year's performance. So while anything is possible, it's like you said that's not likely this year, as was being suggested by this writer and some posters.

 

[CA_7]

Interview with Marvin Lewis

Q: What are your points of emphasis with your players and coaches as you head into the new season?

A: Our yards per carry are important.Our yards per carry are important. Our yards per rush on defense are important. Our third-down percentages are important. We have to eliminate big-chunk plays on defense, and with (cornerbacks) Leon (Hall), Deltha (O'Neal) and Johnathan (Joseph), and the safeties, we could eliminate big plays over the top. Our athleticism has improved up front (on the defensive line) with Michael (Myers) and Kenderick (Allen), two veteran defensive linemen who have been used to being roll-through rotation guys but guys who are good pros. You know each and every day they are going to be out there in practice doing what they're doing.

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/art.../707180337/1066

Rudi was 3.8 ypc last year...

 

[Warpig]

Interview with Marvin Lewis

Q: What are your points of emphasis with your players and coaches as you head into the new season?

A: Our yards per carry are important.Our yards per carry are important. Our yards per rush on defense are important. Our third-down percentages are important. We have to eliminate big-chunk plays on defense, and with (cornerbacks) Leon (Hall), Deltha (O'Neal) and Johnathan (Joseph), and the safeties, we could eliminate big plays over the top. Our athleticism has improved up front (on the defensive line) with Michael (Myers) and Kenderick (Allen), two veteran defensive linemen who have been used to being roll-through rotation guys but guys who are good pros. You know each and every day they are going to be out there in practice doing what they're doing.

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/art.../707180337/1066

Rudi was 3.8 ypc last year...

Rudi Johnson = Eddie GeorgeSeemed to work out OK for Eddie.

 

[Family Matters]

Interview with Marvin Lewis

Q: What are your points of emphasis with your players and coaches as you head into the new season?

A: Our yards per carry are important.Our yards per carry are important. Our yards per rush on defense are important. Our third-down percentages are important. We have to eliminate big-chunk plays on defense, and with (cornerbacks) Leon (Hall), Deltha (O'Neal) and Johnathan (Joseph), and the safeties, we could eliminate big plays over the top. Our athleticism has improved up front (on the defensive line) with Michael (Myers) and Kenderick (Allen), two veteran defensive linemen who have been used to being roll-through rotation guys but guys who are good pros. You know each and every day they are going to be out there in practice doing what they're doing.

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/art.../707180337/1066

Rudi was 3.8 ypc last year...

Not sure what your point is here. If you think Lewis is upset with Rudi then I would say no. If you think the 3.8 YPC is all on Rudi then I would say no. I hope when people analyze Rudi and the Bengals offense they realize the number of injuries they had on the O-line last year. They lost virtually evey lineman at some point. They were 2 deep at at least 2 positions IIRC. When you lose that many lineman your going to suck at running the ball and I don't care who your back is. You cannot expect reserve lineman to do as well as starters. That's why they're back ups. It's that simple really.