Is Ben Roethlisberger as good as Tom Brady? (1 Viewer)

[Choke]

I don't know if Ben is as good as Brady or Manning, but I believe he is in their tier and is in the discussion of who is better. I'd put Rodgers in that tier as well.

Ben isn't close to the same tier. Brady and Manning will go down as top 10 QB's of all time (with Manning it will probably be top 5). Ben will have the same kind of fanfare as Troy Aikmen when he retires.Ben is a good QB in a perfect situation for his skill set.

hi Chaz!

 

[Choke]

I still don't see which QBs you think would have been able to do what Ben did. Why are you avoiding the question?

You're the one who said other QBs could have won that game. So, who are they? Why are you now trying to suggest that with other QBs, the playcalling would have been different, or the game would have unfolded differently. You made a statement, support it, please. Who are these other QBs?

The Steelers' offensive weapons wouldn't be any different, the Steelers philosophy wouldn't have been any different, the Steelers O-line wouldn't have been any different. For another QB to win that game, they would have had to make the same type of plays that Roethlisberger did. You said there were "quite a few." Who are they?

I don't think it's a stretch to say a dozen QBs in the league could win that game behind a solid running game and strong defense. Nothing against Roethlisberger; he played well enough to win yesterday. That's the only criteria I really find important. I've seen him carry the team at times. Yesterday, wasn't a day that was necessary. You seem to be hung up on Ben's physicality as a runner and, while that is something he excels at... other QBs have different strengths they would exploit.

Sure it is... Ben ruins the best laid game plans (against the Steelers offense) better then any other QB in the league. Opposing coaches and players admit as much. Even Rex Ryan just stated today that "maybe we did focus a little too much on Ben" when discussing how the run game hurt them in the first half. Though he felt bad tackling was certainly the main culprit but added that previous caveat as a possible piece of the puzzle.

 

[Steelfan7]

I don't know if Ben is as good as Brady or Manning, but I believe he is in their tier and is in the discussion of who is better. I'd put Rodgers in that tier as well.

Ben isn't close to the same tier. Brady and Manning will go down as top 10 QB's of all time (with Manning it will probably be top 5). Ben will have the same kind of fanfare as Troy Aikmen when he retires.Ben is a good QB in a perfect situation for his skill set.

You are crazy if you think Ben is surrounded by the same type of talent that Aikman had. For starters compare the OL that both have played with.

 

[Jason Wood]

I agree that the most apropos comparison for Ben's career thus far is Aikman. Both are on the path to the Hall of Fame because of their ability to win championships, but their offensive systems precluded them from putting up monster numbers with regularity in the regular season.

 

[Bayhawks]

I don't think it's a stretch to say a dozen QBs in the league could win that game behind a solid running game and strong defense. Nothing against Roethlisberger; he played well enough to win yesterday. That's the only criteria I really find important. I've seen him carry the team at times. Yesterday, wasn't a day that was necessary.

You seem to be hung up on Ben's physicality as a runner and, while that is something he excels at... other QBs have different strengths they would exploit.

You forgot to mention a porous offensive line. If you (or anyone else) are going to make note of the historically good defense in Pittsburgh, or the solid running game of the 1st half on Sunday, why do the weaknesses of the offensive line get neglected?

You say I'm "hung up" on Ben's physicality as a runner, but it is that physical presence, and the willingness to put his body on the line that allows the Steelers offense to work.

You say a dozen QBs in the league could win behind a solid running game & strong defense, but how many of that dozen can also win with a porous offensive line that often can't pass block long enough to allow Bruce Aryans' long-developing pass routes? How many of them can shrug off 1-2 D-linemen/LB's and still be able to make those crucial 3rd-down completions to seal the game on the final drive? How many of them can run 6-12 yards for crucial 3rd-down conversions, having to drive through a LB to get the final 2 yards?

That's the question, not how many QBs can win with a solid run game and good defense, but HOW MANY QBs CAN WIN WITH A SOLID RUN GAME, GOOD DEFENSE, BUT A POOR O-LINE WHERE THEY HAVE TO MAKE THEIR OWN TIME/SPACE TO THROW AND OFTEN HAVE TO SACRIFICE THEIR BODY TO KEEP DRIVES ALIVE?

If you think I'm "hung up" on Ben's physicality, so be it, but that aspect of his skill set is part of what allowed the Steelers to win on Sunday. And there aren't a dozen other QBs in the NFL with that skill set.

 

[beerbarron]

Again, Steelers fans are much too sensitive about Ben. He was good, but without a great defense they lose this game.

I'm not a Steelers fan, but I am a football fan, and Ben is a great football player.This isn't about Steelers fan being too sensitive about Ben. This is a FF MB thread SPECIFICALLY about Roethlisberger and how he compares to Brady.You continue to post unsubstantiated crap (for lack of a better word) suggesting that Ben is vastly inferior to Brady, and then when stats, numbers, facts, (i.e.-substantiated data) are posted to prove you wrong, you ignore it and then post more unsubstantiated crap. Then you whine that Steelers fans are "too sensitive" because they continue to prove you wrong.You say Ben was good, but without a great defense, they lose the game.2 points-1-Ben wasn't good, he was VERY good, borderline great. He had a QB rating of 101.8, threw 2 TDs, led his team to the game winning TD (including one of the best, CLUTCH passes you'll ever see), led his team back from down 2 TDs in the 2nd half, and did all of this without a running game (only 60 yards) against a GREAT defense. The only reason he didn't put up more yards is because he didn't get 40+ pass attempts like Brady did. 2-The Steelers defense was great (although a truly great defense holds the Ravens to FG instead of TDs after the turnovers), but without a great Roethlisberger, they lose the game.

I don't know how many times in this thread I said Ben was a good quarterback and that he was clutch. I didn't need his 3rd and 19 this week to prove that, we've all seen it. I'm not debating that. I'm also not debating that he is better than Stewart, Maddox, or O'Donnel. Again I understand his stats are similar to Brady's at this point in their careers. My point was:1- Teams win Super Bowls, not quarterbacks. Don't get me wrong, I understand the importance of a great QB. But without the best defense in the league, Ben has 1 maybe 0 Superbowls. The Super Bowl argument to me is what really gets me, it really annoys me. Not just with Ben but in general. We can't blame Ben for consistently having a top 3 defense. I can give him credit for a good game yesterday, while at the same time wondering if Pitt wins that game with a lesser defense. If the Ravens put up more than 120 yds of total offense...does Baltimore win? Most would say yes. Does Pittsburgh win if Ben doesn't play so well? Most would say no. Hence, it is a TEAM game. So just because a TEAM wins the Super Bowl, it doesn't mean the QUARTERBACK did it single handedly. 2- Brady took a HUGE jump when he was 30 years old from game manager to elite quarterback. If you think Roeth has done that, then so be it.

Wow, you're really bad at this.Yes, teams win SBs, but the Steelers don't win either SB without Ben as their QB. In XL, they don't get to the SB without him carrying them on his back in the playoffs. And in XLIII, they don't win the SB without Ben's game-winning drive. Would they have won either SB if other key players weren't there? No, but Ben was a HUGE part in both SB wins.And, without the top-5 Patriots defenses of his SB years, Brady doesn't have 3 SB rings either. The argument swings both ways.The stats, as I've shown (and you've conveniently ignored, because they prove you wrong) show that Roethlisberger is just as good as Brady was at this point in his career. Brady took a HUGE jump when he was 30, well maybe we should wait and see what Roethlisberger does, because he still has many years left.The wins are comparable, the SBs are comparable, and the stats are comparable. Therefore, the QBs are comparable. Maybe you should just admit it, because you continue to make yourself look foolish with these weak arguments.

I acknowledged his stats were similar to Brady's at this point.I added Brady, to many, was a game manager at that point in his career. It's what he did afterwards, even without winning Super Bowls, that made it impossible to ignore he was more than a game manager.I said that Ben, in my eyes, hasn't done that yet. I would find it hard to argue that.I agree, let's wait and see what Ben does. If he makes the leap that Brady made...of course I'll think Ben is one of the best ever. But as of right now he hasn't done that.Now what exactly is foolish about that?

If were talking SB performance.. Brady is very overated as well.. yes they won 3/4 but.. how did the Pats win their SB's.. with a field goal... sure brady drove them to get within range.. but where is the montana to taylor TD throw or the berger to holmes tap dance catch.. I dont think brady ever made a last few minute game winning drive TD throw to win the SB.. all of his 4th quarter SB wins were.. by the kicker... Berger at least made one come from behind TD drive in the SB...Just sayin.....

 

[switz]

I don't think it's a stretch to say a dozen QBs in the league could win that game behind a solid running game and strong defense. Nothing against Roethlisberger; he played well enough to win yesterday. That's the only criteria I really find important. I've seen him carry the team at times. Yesterday, wasn't a day that was necessary.

You seem to be hung up on Ben's physicality as a runner and, while that is something he excels at... other QBs have different strengths they would exploit.

You forgot to mention a porous offensive line. If you (or anyone else) are going to make note of the historically good defense in Pittsburgh, or the solid running game of the 1st half on Sunday, why do the weaknesses of the offensive line get neglected?

You say I'm "hung up" on Ben's physicality as a runner, but it is that physical presence, and the willingness to put his body on the line that allows the Steelers offense to work.

You say a dozen QBs in the league could win behind a solid running game & strong defense, but how many of that dozen can also win with a porous offensive line that often can't pass block long enough to allow Bruce Aryans' long-developing pass routes? How many of them can shrug off 1-2 D-linemen/LB's and still be able to make those crucial 3rd-down completions to seal the game on the final drive? How many of them can run 6-12 yards for crucial 3rd-down conversions, having to drive through a LB to get the final 2 yards?

That's the question, not how many QBs can win with a solid run game and good defense, but HOW MANY QBs CAN WIN WITH A SOLID RUN GAME, GOOD DEFENSE, BUT A POOR O-LINE WHERE THEY HAVE TO MAKE THEIR OWN TIME/SPACE TO THROW AND OFTEN HAVE TO SACRIFICE THEIR BODY TO KEEP DRIVES ALIVE?

If you think I'm "hung up" on Ben's physicality, so be it, but that aspect of his skill set is part of what allowed the Steelers to win on Sunday. And there aren't a dozen other QBs in the NFL with that skill set.

Have you ever considered that some of the other QBs may be quicker decision makers, and gave quicker releases, and thus would take less hits and sacks?Also, Pittsburgh has one of the better OLs in the league, despite some injuries. I'm hard pressed to think Rorthlisberger is hindered at all by his OL play.

 

[Choke]

Also, Pittsburgh has one of the better OLs in the league, despite some injuries. I'm hard pressed to think Rorthlisberger is hindered at all by his OL play.

wat? You got me.

 

[Godsbrother]

Also, Pittsburgh has one of the better OLs in the league, despite some injuries. I'm hard pressed to think Rorthlisberger is hindered at all by his OL play.

You are reaching here, Switz. The Steelers offensive line is not even close to being one of the better o-lines in the league.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

I agree that the most apropos comparison for Ben's career thus far is Aikman. Both are on the path to the Hall of Fame because of their ability to win championships, but their offensive systems precluded them from putting up monster numbers with regularity in the regular season.

I agree 100%.However, in terms of playing style, I think Ben is much more like Elway with a soupcon of Favre sprinkled in than he is like Aikman (or Brady or Manning for that matter.) It plays into what you're saying though, in that a lot of people don't realize that Ben has the ability to put up huge numbers (look at his collegiate stats and his NFL stats in games where he's put up 40+ attempts) but, as you said, his offensive system is typically going to keep him from regularly posting lofty passing figures. This is one of the points I made earlier that 12 punch inexplicably took great umbrage with.

 

[fred_1_15301]

I don't think it's a stretch to say a dozen QBs in the league could win that game behind a solid running game and strong defense. Nothing against Roethlisberger; he played well enough to win yesterday. That's the only criteria I really find important. I've seen him carry the team at times. Yesterday, wasn't a day that was necessary.

You seem to be hung up on Ben's physicality as a runner and, while that is something he excels at... other QBs have different strengths they would exploit.

You forgot to mention a porous offensive line. If you (or anyone else) are going to make note of the historically good defense in Pittsburgh, or the solid running game of the 1st half on Sunday, why do the weaknesses of the offensive line get neglected?

You say I'm "hung up" on Ben's physicality as a runner, but it is that physical presence, and the willingness to put his body on the line that allows the Steelers offense to work.

You say a dozen QBs in the league could win behind a solid running game & strong defense, but how many of that dozen can also win with a porous offensive line that often can't pass block long enough to allow Bruce Aryans' long-developing pass routes? How many of them can shrug off 1-2 D-linemen/LB's and still be able to make those crucial 3rd-down completions to seal the game on the final drive? How many of them can run 6-12 yards for crucial 3rd-down conversions, having to drive through a LB to get the final 2 yards?

That's the question, not how many QBs can win with a solid run game and good defense, but HOW MANY QBs CAN WIN WITH A SOLID RUN GAME, GOOD DEFENSE, BUT A POOR O-LINE WHERE THEY HAVE TO MAKE THEIR OWN TIME/SPACE TO THROW AND OFTEN HAVE TO SACRIFICE THEIR BODY TO KEEP DRIVES ALIVE?

If you think I'm "hung up" on Ben's physicality, so be it, but that aspect of his skill set is part of what allowed the Steelers to win on Sunday. And there aren't a dozen other QBs in the NFL with that skill set.

Have you ever considered that some of the other QBs may be quicker decision makers, and gave quicker releases, and thus would take less hits and sacks?Also, Pittsburgh has one of the better OLs in the league, despite some injuries. I'm hard pressed to think Rorthlisberger is hindered at all by his OL play.

Agree with you to an extent that Roethlisberger may not be the quickest decision maker. However, some of that is due to the system that he's in. Regarding your second point about the OL, you could not be more wrong. Their offensive line is an atrocious pass blocking unit.

 

[Bayhawks]

I don't think it's a stretch to say a dozen QBs in the league could win that game behind a solid running game and strong defense. Nothing against Roethlisberger; he played well enough to win yesterday. That's the only criteria I really find important. I've seen him carry the team at times. Yesterday, wasn't a day that was necessary.

You seem to be hung up on Ben's physicality as a runner and, while that is something he excels at... other QBs have different strengths they would exploit.

You forgot to mention a porous offensive line. If you (or anyone else) are going to make note of the historically good defense in Pittsburgh, or the solid running game of the 1st half on Sunday, why do the weaknesses of the offensive line get neglected?

You say I'm "hung up" on Ben's physicality as a runner, but it is that physical presence, and the willingness to put his body on the line that allows the Steelers offense to work.

You say a dozen QBs in the league could win behind a solid running game & strong defense, but how many of that dozen can also win with a porous offensive line that often can't pass block long enough to allow Bruce Aryans' long-developing pass routes? How many of them can shrug off 1-2 D-linemen/LB's and still be able to make those crucial 3rd-down completions to seal the game on the final drive? How many of them can run 6-12 yards for crucial 3rd-down conversions, having to drive through a LB to get the final 2 yards?

That's the question, not how many QBs can win with a solid run game and good defense, but HOW MANY QBs CAN WIN WITH A SOLID RUN GAME, GOOD DEFENSE, BUT A POOR O-LINE WHERE THEY HAVE TO MAKE THEIR OWN TIME/SPACE TO THROW AND OFTEN HAVE TO SACRIFICE THEIR BODY TO KEEP DRIVES ALIVE?

If you think I'm "hung up" on Ben's physicality, so be it, but that aspect of his skill set is part of what allowed the Steelers to win on Sunday. And there aren't a dozen other QBs in the NFL with that skill set.

Have you ever considered that some of the other QBs may be quicker decision makers, and gave quicker releases, and thus would take less hits and sacks?

Have you ever considered reading the entire thread, so you don't have to answer questions that have already been answered?I already posted this, but in Bruce Aryans' system, most passing plays feature deeper, longer-developing routes. Deep ins/outs, corners, posts, go routes, deep crossing routes, etc. If the routes take 4 seconds to develop, and the O-line only gives the QB 2.5 seconds, it doesn't matter how quick a decision maker you are, or how quick a release you have.

Also, Pittsburgh has one of the better OLs in the league, despite some injuries. I'm hard pressed to think Rorthlisberger is hindered at all by his OL play.

Wow, you're out of your mind They allowed the 8th most sacks in the league (43) this year. They were also thorougly average (17th) in rushing, as well, although that's not really relevant to this discussion. They have lost BOTH of their starting tackles this year, and are relying on a guy who no other team wanted (F Adams), and a guy who was considered in danger of being cut in TC (J Scott) before the injuries hit.

ETA-Check out this link that might demonstrate how Pittsburgh's O-line is "one of the better" ones in the NFL.

O-line study article

(Credit to Truman for posting about this article in another thread)

When you click on the "Protecting the Pocket" image, you see that Steelers were the second worst pass-blocking O-line in the divisional playoff round. Only the Falcons blocked worse in that round of the playoffs.

 

[Road Dogg]

I agree that the most apropos comparison for Ben's career thus far is Aikman. Both are on the path to the Hall of Fame because of their ability to win championships, but their offensive systems precluded them from putting up monster numbers with regularity in the regular season.

I agree 100%.However, in terms of playing style, I think Ben is much more like Elway with a soupcon of Favre sprinkled in than he is like Aikman (or Brady or Manning for that matter.) It plays into what you're saying though, in that a lot of people don't realize that Ben has the ability to put up huge numbers (look at his collegiate stats and his NFL stats in games where he's put up 40+ attempts) but, as you said, his offensive system is typically going to keep him from regularly posting lofty passing figures. This is one of the points I made earlier that 12 punch inexplicably took great umbrage with.

I love Troy Aikman. LOVE him, but if you ask me is Troy Aikman better than Tom Brady I'll laugh at you. LAUGH!Perhaps in some other world under different circumstances he could have challenged Brady, but that's a ridiculous conjecture. I'd rather have Troy than Tom Brady, I like him more. But to ask me based on what they actually did, not what i think maybe they could have done, if Troy is a better QB than Brady I would say no.I love him, I think everyone undervalues him, but i am semi realistic

 

[Carolina Hustler]

I agree that the most apropos comparison for Ben's career thus far is Aikman. Both are on the path to the Hall of Fame because of their ability to win championships, but their offensive systems precluded them from putting up monster numbers with regularity in the regular season.

I agree 100%.However, in terms of playing style, I think Ben is much more like Elway with a soupcon of Favre sprinkled in than he is like Aikman (or Brady or Manning for that matter.) It plays into what you're saying though, in that a lot of people don't realize that Ben has the ability to put up huge numbers (look at his collegiate stats and his NFL stats in games where he's put up 40+ attempts) but, as you said, his offensive system is typically going to keep him from regularly posting lofty passing figures. This is one of the points I made earlier that 12 punch inexplicably took great umbrage with.

In terms of style, I'd agree, but Elway>Ben the RaperAll time QB, I think I'd rank Ben near Troy

Ben is a very good QB, but isn't even in the same tier as Brady..

 

[Ballstein]

I agree that the most apropos comparison for Ben's career thus far is Aikman. Both are on the path to the Hall of Fame because of their ability to win championships, but their offensive systems precluded them from putting up monster numbers with regularity in the regular season.

I agree 100%.However, in terms of playing style, I think Ben is much more like Elway with a soupcon of Favre sprinkled in than he is like Aikman (or Brady or Manning for that matter.) It plays into what you're saying though, in that a lot of people don't realize that Ben has the ability to put up huge numbers (look at his collegiate stats and his NFL stats in games where he's put up 40+ attempts) but, as you said, his offensive system is typically going to keep him from regularly posting lofty passing figures. This is one of the points I made earlier that 12 punch inexplicably took great umbrage with.

In terms of style, I'd agree, but Elway>Ben the RaperAll time QB, I think I'd rank Ben near Troy

Ben is a very good QB, but isn't even in the same tier as Brady..

YOUR ARGUMENT CAN'T BE CONSIDERED AS EMOTIONAL ISSUES ARE AFFECTING YOUIR DECISION MAKING. POST NULLIFIED.

 

[parrot]

If were talking SB performance.. Brady is very overated as well.. yes they won 3/4 but.. how did the Pats win their SB's.. with a field goal... sure brady drove them to get within range.. but where is the montana to taylor TD throw or the berger to holmes tap dance catch.. I dont think brady ever made a last few minute game winning drive TD throw to win the SB.. all of his 4th quarter SB wins were.. by the kicker...

If anyone cares to consider more than just the final margin of victory in those Pats Superbowls;We all know what happened against the Rams.Against Carolina, the Brady led offense scored 18 fourth qtr points, while one of these defenses he has ridden to a SB Championship surrendered 19 fourth quarter points, including a 33 yard td run and an 85 yard td pass. Brady completed a 17 yard pass with 14 seconds left in the game to turn a potential 57 yard fg attempt into a relatively routine 40 yarder. Brady complete 66% of his passes for 354 yards, 3 tds, one pick, and a passer rating of 100. The pick was a fourth qtr redzone pick, but that was really his only black mark on a day where he otherwise played VERY well against a top 10 pass defense and was THE reason his team stayed in the game while the defense folded late, twice giving up fourth quarter leads. Against the Eagles the Pats went into the 4th qtr tied. The Patriots scored ten points early in the quarter and the Eagles scored a TD late to close the victory margin. Contrary to popular belief, Vinatieri NEVER kicked a field goal to give them the lead in that game. Brady completed 70% of his passes on the day for 236 yards, 2 touchdowns, and no picks, passer rating 110. That's a very good day by any QBing standard.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

I agree that the most apropos comparison for Ben's career thus far is Aikman. Both are on the path to the Hall of Fame because of their ability to win championships, but their offensive systems precluded them from putting up monster numbers with regularity in the regular season.

I agree 100%.However, in terms of playing style, I think Ben is much more like Elway with a soupcon of Favre sprinkled in than he is like Aikman (or Brady or Manning for that matter.) It plays into what you're saying though, in that a lot of people don't realize that Ben has the ability to put up huge numbers (look at his collegiate stats and his NFL stats in games where he's put up 40+ attempts) but, as you said, his offensive system is typically going to keep him from regularly posting lofty passing figures. This is one of the points I made earlier that 12 punch inexplicably took great umbrage with.

In terms of style, I'd agree, but Elway>Ben the RaperAll time QB, I think I'd rank Ben near Troy

Ben is a very good QB, but isn't even in the same tier as Brady..

YOUR ARGUMENT CAN'T BE CONSIDERED AS EMOTIONAL ISSUES ARE AFFECTING YOUIR DECISION MAKING. POST NULLIFIED.

lol

 

[Godsbrother]

In terms of style, I'd agree, but Elway>Ben the Raper

Not saying Ben is better than Elway but statistically he stacks up pretty well against him:Completion % -- Elway: 56.9%, Roethlisberger: 63.1%TD % -- Elway: 4.1%, Roethlisberger: 5.1%INT % -- Elway: 3.1%, Roethlisberger: 3.1%Yds/Att -- Elway: 7.1, Roethlisberger: 8.0Yds/Comp -- Elway: 12.5, Roethlisberger: 12.7Yds/Game -- Elway: 220.0, Roethlisberger: 227.3Passer Rating-- Elway: 79.9, Roethlisberger: 92.5

 

[Road Dogg]

In terms of style, I'd agree, but Elway>Ben the Raper

Not saying Ben is better than Elway but statistically he stacks up pretty well against him:Completion % -- Elway: 56.9%, Roethlisberger: 63.1%TD % -- Elway: 4.1%, Roethlisberger: 5.1%INT % -- Elway: 3.1%, Roethlisberger: 3.1%Yds/Att -- Elway: 7.1, Roethlisberger: 8.0Yds/Comp -- Elway: 12.5, Roethlisberger: 12.7Yds/Game -- Elway: 220.0, Roethlisberger: 227.3Passer Rating-- Elway: 79.9, Roethlisberger: 92.5

but you agree he is not better then Elway correct?and not better than Brady?

 

[Ghost Rider]

In terms of style, I'd agree, but Elway>Ben the Raper

Not saying Ben is better than Elway but statistically he stacks up pretty well against him:Completion % -- Elway: 56.9%, Roethlisberger: 63.1%TD % -- Elway: 4.1%, Roethlisberger: 5.1%INT % -- Elway: 3.1%, Roethlisberger: 3.1%Yds/Att -- Elway: 7.1, Roethlisberger: 8.0Yds/Comp -- Elway: 12.5, Roethlisberger: 12.7Yds/Game -- Elway: 220.0, Roethlisberger: 227.3Passer Rating-- Elway: 79.9, Roethlisberger: 92.5

a. Comparing players from different generations doesn't work, especially when you consider that defenses were allowed to do a lot more to slow down receivers back then than they are now. b. For most of his career (until he got Rod Smith and Ed McCaffrey), Elway never had a WR nearly as good as Ward, Holmes or Wallace. And Roethlisberger has always had two of those guys to throw to (and all three last year!).

 

[GoodLloydHaveMercy]

Is anyone disputing that the Pittsburgh defense won that game yesterday?

Does anyone dispute that New England's defense won them their SBs when Brady was QB?Just wondering what the point of the comment is... Brady and Ben have both been successful due to being on complete teams, great defenses, great special teams. They're neck and neck IMO.

My point is, people seem to be trying very hard to come up with ways that Ben was great yesterday. He was not. If it were not for his defense, the Steelers aren't even in this game. It's like Steelers fans feel this responsibility to defend Big Ben and talk him up regardless of how he plays. I'm a Packer fan. I love Aaron Rodgers. That being said, Rodgers had a bad day yesterday. If it weren't for the defense, Green Bay wouldn't be going to the Super Bowl. I think the same can be said for Ben. Yet you won't find a Steeler fan in the universe who'll admit it.

ok how about this. both games were 1 score games... both were given opportunities to run a 4 minute offense and get maybe 1 or 2 first downs to put the game away. 1 did and 1 didn't. I don't have all the numbers in front of me but I'm pretty sure Steelers threw 5 times in the second half.... and mostly ran the ball against 8 and 9 man boxes in the second half. They lost their best lineman in the first series. Ben made plays and some of those plays were to eat the ball and run it or NOT try to toss it to a RB in the flat where it would clearly not work.

Read my first sentence again. That's my point. Eating the ball, running it, and not tossing to an RB in the flat is not a great game.

read my last sentence again.... and then go back and watch the game again. More than a few times when it looked as though he had someone in the flats for a checkdown there was a lurking LB or DE.

 

[Thunderlips]

Sounds like some people are overvaluing Brady more than overvaluing Big Ben.

 

[GoodLloydHaveMercy]

I don't think it's a stretch to say a dozen QBs in the league could win that game behind a solid running game and strong defense. Nothing against Roethlisberger; he played well enough to win yesterday. That's the only criteria I really find important. I've seen him carry the team at times. Yesterday, wasn't a day that was necessary.

You seem to be hung up on Ben's physicality as a runner and, while that is something he excels at... other QBs have different strengths they would exploit.

You forgot to mention a porous offensive line. If you (or anyone else) are going to make note of the historically good defense in Pittsburgh, or the solid running game of the 1st half on Sunday, why do the weaknesses of the offensive line get neglected?

You say I'm "hung up" on Ben's physicality as a runner, but it is that physical presence, and the willingness to put his body on the line that allows the Steelers offense to work.

You say a dozen QBs in the league could win behind a solid running game & strong defense, but how many of that dozen can also win with a porous offensive line that often can't pass block long enough to allow Bruce Aryans' long-developing pass routes? How many of them can shrug off 1-2 D-linemen/LB's and still be able to make those crucial 3rd-down completions to seal the game on the final drive? How many of them can run 6-12 yards for crucial 3rd-down conversions, having to drive through a LB to get the final 2 yards?

That's the question, not how many QBs can win with a solid run game and good defense, but HOW MANY QBs CAN WIN WITH A SOLID RUN GAME, GOOD DEFENSE, BUT A POOR O-LINE WHERE THEY HAVE TO MAKE THEIR OWN TIME/SPACE TO THROW AND OFTEN HAVE TO SACRIFICE THEIR BODY TO KEEP DRIVES ALIVE?

If you think I'm "hung up" on Ben's physicality, so be it, but that aspect of his skill set is part of what allowed the Steelers to win on Sunday. And there aren't a dozen other QBs in the NFL with that skill set.

Have you ever considered that some of the other QBs may be quicker decision makers, and gave quicker releases, and thus would take less hits and sacks?Also, Pittsburgh has one of the better OLs in the league, despite some injuries. I'm hard pressed to think Rorthlisberger is hindered at all by his OL play.

Ask Brady how that quick release and quicker decision making helped him against the Jets "bracketing" the short routes. Behind the Steelers O-Line any other QB would need shorter routes to be called so they can get rid of the ball before the D gets to them. Quicker decisions don't necessarily mean that its a smart throw.What if Peyton or Tom "decide quickly" behind the Steelers O-Line that they need to throw the ball NOW and nobody is open until LATER?

I would think that would be a problem wouldn't you?

I would think Manning would end up in the fetal position a lot wouldn't you?

 

[Godsbrother]

In terms of style, I'd agree, but Elway>Ben the Raper

Not saying Ben is better than Elway but statistically he stacks up pretty well against him:Completion % -- Elway: 56.9%, Roethlisberger: 63.1%TD % -- Elway: 4.1%, Roethlisberger: 5.1%INT % -- Elway: 3.1%, Roethlisberger: 3.1%Yds/Att -- Elway: 7.1, Roethlisberger: 8.0Yds/Comp -- Elway: 12.5, Roethlisberger: 12.7Yds/Game -- Elway: 220.0, Roethlisberger: 227.3Passer Rating-- Elway: 79.9, Roethlisberger: 92.5

a. Comparing players from different generations doesn't work, especially when you consider that defenses were allowed to do a lot more to slow down receivers back then than they are now. b. For most of his career (until he got Rod Smith and Ed McCaffrey), Elway never had a WR nearly as good as Ward, Holmes or Wallace. And Roethlisberger has always had two of those guys to throw to (and all three last year!).

The biggest rule change that benefited receivers (and inflated QBs passing stats) was the Mel Blount rule which was enacted years before Elway played in the NFL. Elway's rookie season was 1983 and the really crazy passing stats (>4,000 pass yds/season) had already begun. Elway threw for over 50,000 yards and so he had some pretty good recievers too: Steve Watson, Butch Johnson, Vance Johnson, Mark Jackson, Rod Smith, Ed McCaffrey, Shannon Sharpe, etc. were all good receivers. Probably not as good as Ward but the jury is definitely still out as to how good Holmes & Wallace are.As I said I am not saying Ben was better than Elway but if you can't compare stats, W-L percentage, playoff record or championships then there really isn't anything left except personal opinion.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

I don't think it's a stretch to say a dozen QBs in the league could win that game behind a solid running game and strong defense. Nothing against Roethlisberger; he played well enough to win yesterday. That's the only criteria I really find important. I've seen him carry the team at times. Yesterday, wasn't a day that was necessary.

You seem to be hung up on Ben's physicality as a runner and, while that is something he excels at... other QBs have different strengths they would exploit.

You forgot to mention a porous offensive line. If you (or anyone else) are going to make note of the historically good defense in Pittsburgh, or the solid running game of the 1st half on Sunday, why do the weaknesses of the offensive line get neglected?

You say I'm "hung up" on Ben's physicality as a runner, but it is that physical presence, and the willingness to put his body on the line that allows the Steelers offense to work.

You say a dozen QBs in the league could win behind a solid running game & strong defense, but how many of that dozen can also win with a porous offensive line that often can't pass block long enough to allow Bruce Aryans' long-developing pass routes? How many of them can shrug off 1-2 D-linemen/LB's and still be able to make those crucial 3rd-down completions to seal the game on the final drive? How many of them can run 6-12 yards for crucial 3rd-down conversions, having to drive through a LB to get the final 2 yards?

That's the question, not how many QBs can win with a solid run game and good defense, but HOW MANY QBs CAN WIN WITH A SOLID RUN GAME, GOOD DEFENSE, BUT A POOR O-LINE WHERE THEY HAVE TO MAKE THEIR OWN TIME/SPACE TO THROW AND OFTEN HAVE TO SACRIFICE THEIR BODY TO KEEP DRIVES ALIVE?

If you think I'm "hung up" on Ben's physicality, so be it, but that aspect of his skill set is part of what allowed the Steelers to win on Sunday. And there aren't a dozen other QBs in the NFL with that skill set.

Have you ever considered that some of the other QBs may be quicker decision makers, and gave quicker releases, and thus would take less hits and sacks?Also, Pittsburgh has one of the better OLs in the league, despite some injuries. I'm hard pressed to think Rorthlisberger is hindered at all by his OL play.

Ask Brady how that quick release and quicker decision making helped him against the Jets "bracketing" the short routes. Behind the Steelers O-Line any other QB would need shorter routes to be called so they can get rid of the ball before the D gets to them. Quicker decisions don't necessarily mean that its a smart throw.What if Peyton or Tom "decide quickly" behind the Steelers O-Line that they need to throw the ball NOW and nobody is open until LATER?

I would think that would be a problem wouldn't you?

I would think Manning would end up in the fetal position a lot wouldn't you?

Did the Pats virtually shut them out in the first have as well? I thought this was a clock management game in the first half, that had more to do wityh the running game and game planning than it had to do with Rothlisberger..

 

[Carolina Hustler]

I would think Manning would end up in the fetal position a lot wouldn't you?

That's not a serious question is it?

 

[Bayhawks]

Did the Pats virtually shut them out in the first have as well?

Except for the 14 points that the Jets scored in the first half, I guess you could say that they virtually shut them out The Jets had a bad offensive 1st quarter, but they dominated the Pats in the 2nd quarter, and went into halftime with a 14-3 lead.

 

[Frenchy Fuqua]

I agree that the most apropos comparison for Ben's career thus far is Aikman. Both are on the path to the Hall of Fame because of their ability to win championships, but their offensive systems precluded them from putting up monster numbers with regularity in the regular season.

I guess I don't follow the Aikman-Ben comparison. Statistically maybe their numbers/championships are similar but their surrounding/supporting cast is hardly similar. Aikman had the best OL of the past 25-30 years and the NFL's all-time leading rusher. Ben won a SB in 2008 with 2 starting OL and a RB that are currently out of football (Hartwig, Stapleton & Fast Willie). This year Ben has lost both starting offensive tackles and has dealt with a revolving door at right guard.I like the Elway comparison. Ben doesn't have the arm or athletic ability that Elway had but he presents similar problems for the defense and has put up better numbers and more significant wins at this stage in both careers.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

I agree that the most apropos comparison for Ben's career thus far is Aikman. Both are on the path to the Hall of Fame because of their ability to win championships, but their offensive systems precluded them from putting up monster numbers with regularity in the regular season.

I agree 100%.However, in terms of playing style, I think Ben is much more like Elway with a soupcon of Favre sprinkled in than he is like Aikman (or Brady or Manning for that matter.) It plays into what you're saying though, in that a lot of people don't realize that Ben has the ability to put up huge numbers (look at his collegiate stats and his NFL stats in games where he's put up 40+ attempts) but, as you said, his offensive system is typically going to keep him from regularly posting lofty passing figures. This is one of the points I made earlier that 12 punch inexplicably took great umbrage with.

I love Troy Aikman. LOVE him, but if you ask me is Troy Aikman better than Tom Brady I'll laugh at you. LAUGH!Perhaps in some other world under different circumstances he could have challenged Brady, but that's a ridiculous conjecture. I'd rather have Troy than Tom Brady, I like him more. But to ask me based on what they actually did, not what i think maybe they could have done, if Troy is a better QB than Brady I would say no.I love him, I think everyone undervalues him, but i am semi realistic

I've said numerous times in this thread that I don't think Roethlisberger is as good as Brady. Read the initial post.

 

[Road Dogg]

I agree that the most apropos comparison for Ben's career thus far is Aikman. Both are on the path to the Hall of Fame because of their ability to win championships, but their offensive systems precluded them from putting up monster numbers with regularity in the regular season.

I agree 100%.However, in terms of playing style, I think Ben is much more like Elway with a soupcon of Favre sprinkled in than he is like Aikman (or Brady or Manning for that matter.) It plays into what you're saying though, in that a lot of people don't realize that Ben has the ability to put up huge numbers (look at his collegiate stats and his NFL stats in games where he's put up 40+ attempts) but, as you said, his offensive system is typically going to keep him from regularly posting lofty passing figures. This is one of the points I made earlier that 12 punch inexplicably took great umbrage with.

I love Troy Aikman. LOVE him, but if you ask me is Troy Aikman better than Tom Brady I'll laugh at you. LAUGH!Perhaps in some other world under different circumstances he could have challenged Brady, but that's a ridiculous conjecture. I'd rather have Troy than Tom Brady, I like him more. But to ask me based on what they actually did, not what i think maybe they could have done, if Troy is a better QB than Brady I would say no.I love him, I think everyone undervalues him, but i am semi realistic

I've said numerous times in this thread that I don't think Roethlisberger is as good as Brady. Read the initial post.

yet this thread continues!

 

[Evilgrin 72]

I agree that the most apropos comparison for Ben's career thus far is Aikman. Both are on the path to the Hall of Fame because of their ability to win championships, but their offensive systems precluded them from putting up monster numbers with regularity in the regular season.

I agree 100%.However, in terms of playing style, I think Ben is much more like Elway with a soupcon of Favre sprinkled in than he is like Aikman (or Brady or Manning for that matter.) It plays into what you're saying though, in that a lot of people don't realize that Ben has the ability to put up huge numbers (look at his collegiate stats and his NFL stats in games where he's put up 40+ attempts) but, as you said, his offensive system is typically going to keep him from regularly posting lofty passing figures. This is one of the points I made earlier that 12 punch inexplicably took great umbrage with.

I love Troy Aikman. LOVE him, but if you ask me is Troy Aikman better than Tom Brady I'll laugh at you. LAUGH!Perhaps in some other world under different circumstances he could have challenged Brady, but that's a ridiculous conjecture. I'd rather have Troy than Tom Brady, I like him more. But to ask me based on what they actually did, not what i think maybe they could have done, if Troy is a better QB than Brady I would say no.I love him, I think everyone undervalues him, but i am semi realistic

I've said numerous times in this thread that I don't think Roethlisberger is as good as Brady. Read the initial post.

yet this thread continues!

It's kind of taken on a life of its own... much as I suspected it might.

 

[Moniker]

Sounds like some people are overvaluing Brady more than overvaluing Big Ben.

This.

 

[David Yudkin]

Sounds like some people are overvaluing Brady more than overvaluing Big Ben.

This.

Next week, the list of 3 time SB champion, 2 time AP NFL MVP QBs will include only Tom Brady and Joe Montana. I'm guessing that's a somewhat elite data set. And all of those were in different seasons, so you have to think that he had a number of good seasons.

 

[draino]

If Brady is the Steelers QB yesterday, the Jets are playing in the SB. If Manning is the Steelers QB yesterday, the Jets are playing in the SB. If Brees is the Steelers QB yesterday, the Jets are playing in the SB. If Rivers is the Steelers QB yesterday, the Jets are playing in the SB. If Rodgers is the Steelers QB yesterday, the Jets are playing in the SB (although I love Rodgers mobility as a QB, he is not as big or strong as Roethlsiberger, and I don't think Rodgers would have been able to bull for the extra rushing yards that Ben did on at least 2 rushes for 1st downs).

I'll make you a deal. You admit that without Ben the Steelers wouldn't have won yesterday, and I'll admit that without their defense, they wouldn't have won yesterday.

You want to see if people would give him credit for yesterday's win. Well, guess what? He deserves it. Not all of it, but they don't win that game with many other people at QB.

You got this part wrong, If Roethlisberger was the Saints Qb then they do not make playoffs this year or win the Super Bowl last year...If Roethisberger was the Colts QB then they would be 8-8 consistently every year until they get some offensive balance. Ben does not carry teams! He is good but take off the Black and yellow glasses and realize that. He is not a HOF but might get in because ESPN controls everything about sports. I wish Brees only had to make 2 or 3 plays a game then he might have 4 rings.

 

[mcintyre1]

You got this part wrong, If Roethlisberger was the Saints Qb then they do not make playoffs this year or win the Super Bowl last year...If Roethisberger was the Colts QB then they would be 8-8 consistently every year until they get some offensive balance. Ben does not carry teams! He is good but take off the Black and yellow glasses and realize that. He is not a HOF but might get in because ESPN controls everything about sports. I wish Brees only had to make 2 or 3 plays a game then he might have 4 rings.

....What?

 

[Bayhawks]

If Brady is the Steelers QB yesterday, the Jets are playing in the SB. If Manning is the Steelers QB yesterday, the Jets are playing in the SB. If Brees is the Steelers QB yesterday, the Jets are playing in the SB. If Rivers is the Steelers QB yesterday, the Jets are playing in the SB. If Rodgers is the Steelers QB yesterday, the Jets are playing in the SB (although I love Rodgers mobility as a QB, he is not as big or strong as Roethlsiberger, and I don't think Rodgers would have been able to bull for the extra rushing yards that Ben did on at least 2 rushes for 1st downs).

I'll make you a deal. You admit that without Ben the Steelers wouldn't have won yesterday, and I'll admit that without their defense, they wouldn't have won yesterday.

You want to see if people would give him credit for yesterday's win. Well, guess what? He deserves it. Not all of it, but they don't win that game with many other people at QB.

You got this part wrong, If Roethlisberger was the Saints Qb then they do not make playoffs this year or win the Super Bowl last year...If Roethisberger was the Colts QB then they would be 8-8 consistently every year until they get some offensive balance. Ben does not carry teams! He is good but take off the Black and yellow glasses and realize that. He is not a HOF but might get in because ESPN controls everything about sports. I wish Brees only had to make 2 or 3 plays a game then he might have 4 rings.

I'm not sure how I got anything wrong. I never made any claims about what Roethlisberger would or would not do as Saints or Colts QB. Perhaps you should try reading the entire thread, or at least the parts applicable to what you quote, before you post foolish commentary?Brees is a better fit for the Saints offense than Roethlisberger, and Manning is a better fit for the Colts offense than Roethlisberger, but (and this was my point), Roethlisberger is a better fit for the Steelers offense than Manning, Brees, Brady, Rivers, Rodgers, etc is.

With the Steelers offense (and their underwhelming O-line), to win 2 SBs (and have a shot at a 3rd) a QB would need to be able to withstand hits, make throws after taking hits/escaping pressure, run for yardage when necessary, and be able to throw the ball deep. In the Jets game, a QB without those skills would not have been able to help the Steelers win. Roethlisberger is the best QB with that skill-set in the NFL.

HTH.

ETA-I'm not a Steelers fan, so there's no homerism here. Unfortunately, I'm a Redskins fan, which has sucked for, oh I don't know, the last decade. That being said, I am also a football fan, and Roethlisberger is a good (and under-rated) football player.

 

[Ballstein]

Brees, Manning and Brady wouldn't last the entire season with Ben's current OL

 

[Carolina Hustler]

Did the Pats virtually shut them out in the first have as well?

Except for the 14 points that the Jets scored in the first half, I guess you could say that they virtually shut them out The Jets had a bad offensive 1st quarter, but they dominated the Pats in the 2nd quarter, and went into halftime with a 14-3 lead.

The 14 points in the first half is the difference...

 

[DropKick]

If Brady is the Steelers QB yesterday, the Jets are playing in the SB. If Manning is the Steelers QB yesterday, the Jets are playing in the SB. If Brees is the Steelers QB yesterday, the Jets are playing in the SB. If Rivers is the Steelers QB yesterday, the Jets are playing in the SB. If Rodgers is the Steelers QB yesterday, the Jets are playing in the SB (although I love Rodgers mobility as a QB, he is not as big or strong as Roethlsiberger, and I don't think Rodgers would have been able to bull for the extra rushing yards that Ben did on at least 2 rushes for 1st downs).

I'll make you a deal. You admit that without Ben the Steelers wouldn't have won yesterday, and I'll admit that without their defense, they wouldn't have won yesterday.

You want to see if people would give him credit for yesterday's win. Well, guess what? He deserves it. Not all of it, but they don't win that game with many other people at QB.

You got this part wrong, If Roethlisberger was the Saints Qb then they do not make playoffs this year or win the Super Bowl last year...If Roethisberger was the Colts QB then they would be 8-8 consistently every year until they get some offensive balance. Ben does not carry teams! He is good but take off the Black and yellow glasses and realize that. He is not a HOF but might get in because ESPN controls everything about sports. I wish Brees only had to make 2 or 3 plays a game then he might have 4 rings.

I'm not sure how I got anything wrong. I never made any claims about what Roethlisberger would or would not do as Saints or Colts QB. Perhaps you should try reading the entire thread, or at least the parts applicable to what you quote, before you post foolish commentary?Brees is a better fit for the Saints offense than Roethlisberger, and Manning is a better fit for the Colts offense than Roethlisberger, but (and this was my point), Roethlisberger is a better fit for the Steelers offense than Manning, Brees, Brady, Rivers, Rodgers, etc is.

With the Steelers offense (and their underwhelming O-line), to win 2 SBs (and have a shot at a 3rd) a QB would need to be able to withstand hits, make throws after taking hits/escaping pressure, run for yardage when necessary, and be able to throw the ball deep. In the Jets game, a QB without those skills would not have been able to help the Steelers win. Roethlisberger is the best QB with that skill-set in the NFL.

HTH.

ETA-I'm not a Steelers fan, so there's no homerism here. Unfortunately, I'm a Redskins fan, which has sucked for, oh I don't know, the last decade. That being said, I am also a football fan, and Roethlisberger is a good (and under-rated) football player.

I've never said a single bad thing about Ben's play, And I agree that he is a good fit for the team. But your point - that the Steelers couldn't win with a different QB is nutty. They could win with Manning, Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Vick, Rivers, Freeman, Ryan, Eli, Schaub, Romo, Bradford, etc.

 

[Chaz McNulty]

If Brady is the Steelers QB yesterday, the Jets are playing in the SB. If Manning is the Steelers QB yesterday, the Jets are playing in the SB. If Brees is the Steelers QB yesterday, the Jets are playing in the SB. If Rivers is the Steelers QB yesterday, the Jets are playing in the SB. If Rodgers is the Steelers QB yesterday, the Jets are playing in the SB (although I love Rodgers mobility as a QB, he is not as big or strong as Roethlsiberger, and I don't think Rodgers would have been able to bull for the extra rushing yards that Ben did on at least 2 rushes for 1st downs).

I'll make you a deal. You admit that without Ben the Steelers wouldn't have won yesterday, and I'll admit that without their defense, they wouldn't have won yesterday.

You want to see if people would give him credit for yesterday's win. Well, guess what? He deserves it. Not all of it, but they don't win that game with many other people at QB.

You got this part wrong, If Roethlisberger was the Saints Qb then they do not make playoffs this year or win the Super Bowl last year...If Roethisberger was the Colts QB then they would be 8-8 consistently every year until they get some offensive balance. Ben does not carry teams! He is good but take off the Black and yellow glasses and realize that. He is not a HOF but might get in because ESPN controls everything about sports. I wish Brees only had to make 2 or 3 plays a game then he might have 4 rings.

I'm not sure how I got anything wrong. I never made any claims about what Roethlisberger would or would not do as Saints or Colts QB. Perhaps you should try reading the entire thread, or at least the parts applicable to what you quote, before you post foolish commentary?Brees is a better fit for the Saints offense than Roethlisberger, and Manning is a better fit for the Colts offense than Roethlisberger, but (and this was my point), Roethlisberger is a better fit for the Steelers offense than Manning, Brees, Brady, Rivers, Rodgers, etc is.

With the Steelers offense (and their underwhelming O-line), to win 2 SBs (and have a shot at a 3rd) a QB would need to be able to withstand hits, make throws after taking hits/escaping pressure, run for yardage when necessary, and be able to throw the ball deep. In the Jets game, a QB without those skills would not have been able to help the Steelers win. Roethlisberger is the best QB with that skill-set in the NFL.

HTH.

ETA-I'm not a Steelers fan, so there's no homerism here. Unfortunately, I'm a Redskins fan, which has sucked for, oh I don't know, the last decade. That being said, I am also a football fan, and Roethlisberger is a good (and under-rated) football player.

Or he could just post a QB rating of 22.6 and hope the running game and the defense bail him out in the Superbowl. But lets face it. If Manning, Montana, Elway, Unitas, Marino, or Superman would have played in that Superbowl then Pittsburgh would have lost.You crack me up.

 

[LTF]

If Brady is the Steelers QB yesterday, the Jets are playing in the SB. If Manning is the Steelers QB yesterday, the Jets are playing in the SB. If Brees is the Steelers QB yesterday, the Jets are playing in the SB. If Rivers is the Steelers QB yesterday, the Jets are playing in the SB. If Rodgers is the Steelers QB yesterday, the Jets are playing in the SB (although I love Rodgers mobility as a QB, he is not as big or strong as Roethlsiberger, and I don't think Rodgers would have been able to bull for the extra rushing yards that Ben did on at least 2 rushes for 1st downs).

I'll make you a deal. You admit that without Ben the Steelers wouldn't have won yesterday, and I'll admit that without their defense, they wouldn't have won yesterday.

You want to see if people would give him credit for yesterday's win. Well, guess what? He deserves it. Not all of it, but they don't win that game with many other people at QB.

You got this part wrong, If Roethlisberger was the Saints Qb then they do not make playoffs this year or win the Super Bowl last year...If Roethisberger was the Colts QB then they would be 8-8 consistently every year until they get some offensive balance. Ben does not carry teams! He is good but take off the Black and yellow glasses and realize that. He is not a HOF but might get in because ESPN controls everything about sports. I wish Brees only had to make 2 or 3 plays a game then he might have 4 rings.

I'm not sure how I got anything wrong. I never made any claims about what Roethlisberger would or would not do as Saints or Colts QB. Perhaps you should try reading the entire thread, or at least the parts applicable to what you quote, before you post foolish commentary?Brees is a better fit for the Saints offense than Roethlisberger, and Manning is a better fit for the Colts offense than Roethlisberger, but (and this was my point), Roethlisberger is a better fit for the Steelers offense than Manning, Brees, Brady, Rivers, Rodgers, etc is.

With the Steelers offense (and their underwhelming O-line), to win 2 SBs (and have a shot at a 3rd) a QB would need to be able to withstand hits, make throws after taking hits/escaping pressure, run for yardage when necessary, and be able to throw the ball deep. In the Jets game, a QB without those skills would not have been able to help the Steelers win. Roethlisberger is the best QB with that skill-set in the NFL.

HTH.

ETA-I'm not a Steelers fan, so there's no homerism here. Unfortunately, I'm a Redskins fan, which has sucked for, oh I don't know, the last decade. That being said, I am also a football fan, and Roethlisberger is a good (and under-rated) football player.

Or he could just post a QB rating of 22.6 and hope the running game and the defense bail him out in the Superbowl. But lets face it. If Manning, Montana, Elway, Unitas, Marino, or Superman would have played in that Superbowl then Pittsburgh would have lost.You crack me up.

Well, do you have a point. Most 23 year olds tear up the NFL. Play lights out and win three straight games on the road in the playoffs, and then go onto the SB.

What was Drew Brees doing when he was 23 again?

 

[Choke]

If Brady is the Steelers QB yesterday, the Jets are playing in the SB. If Manning is the Steelers QB yesterday, the Jets are playing in the SB. If Brees is the Steelers QB yesterday, the Jets are playing in the SB. If Rivers is the Steelers QB yesterday, the Jets are playing in the SB. If Rodgers is the Steelers QB yesterday, the Jets are playing in the SB (although I love Rodgers mobility as a QB, he is not as big or strong as Roethlsiberger, and I don't think Rodgers would have been able to bull for the extra rushing yards that Ben did on at least 2 rushes for 1st downs).

I'll make you a deal. You admit that without Ben the Steelers wouldn't have won yesterday, and I'll admit that without their defense, they wouldn't have won yesterday.

You want to see if people would give him credit for yesterday's win. Well, guess what? He deserves it. Not all of it, but they don't win that game with many other people at QB.

You got this part wrong, If Roethlisberger was the Saints Qb then they do not make playoffs this year or win the Super Bowl last year...If Roethisberger was the Colts QB then they would be 8-8 consistently every year until they get some offensive balance. Ben does not carry teams! He is good but take off the Black and yellow glasses and realize that. He is not a HOF but might get in because ESPN controls everything about sports. I wish Brees only had to make 2 or 3 plays a game then he might have 4 rings.

I'm not sure how I got anything wrong. I never made any claims about what Roethlisberger would or would not do as Saints or Colts QB. Perhaps you should try reading the entire thread, or at least the parts applicable to what you quote, before you post foolish commentary?Brees is a better fit for the Saints offense than Roethlisberger, and Manning is a better fit for the Colts offense than Roethlisberger, but (and this was my point), Roethlisberger is a better fit for the Steelers offense than Manning, Brees, Brady, Rivers, Rodgers, etc is.

With the Steelers offense (and their underwhelming O-line), to win 2 SBs (and have a shot at a 3rd) a QB would need to be able to withstand hits, make throws after taking hits/escaping pressure, run for yardage when necessary, and be able to throw the ball deep. In the Jets game, a QB without those skills would not have been able to help the Steelers win. Roethlisberger is the best QB with that skill-set in the NFL.

HTH.

ETA-I'm not a Steelers fan, so there's no homerism here. Unfortunately, I'm a Redskins fan, which has sucked for, oh I don't know, the last decade. That being said, I am also a football fan, and Roethlisberger is a good (and under-rated) football player.

Or he could just post a QB rating of 22.6 and hope the running game and the defense bail him out in the Superbowl. But lets face it. If Manning, Montana, Elway, Unitas, Marino, or Superman would have played in that Superbowl then Pittsburgh would have lost.You crack me up.

Well, do you have a point. Most 23 year olds tear up the NFL. Play lights out and win three straight games on the road in the playoffs, and then go onto the SB.

What was Drew Brees doing when he was 23 again?

14/23 208 3TDs (down 17-7, brings em back to win)14/24 197 2TDs 1int (against the super power colts and the game saving tackle?)

21/29 275 3TDs (third in a row on the road)

BigBen year #2 playoff totals, incl Super Bowl ...

58/93 62.5% 803 9TDs 1Int. (4g)

Brady in year #2, his first Super Bowl win...

60/97 61.9% 573 2TDs 1Int. (3g)

PManning year #2, playoff...

19/42 45.2% 227 1TD 0Int. (1g lost)

Brees in year #2... watching TV.

BGP!

 

[Bayhawks]

If Brady is the Steelers QB yesterday, the Jets are playing in the SB. If Manning is the Steelers QB yesterday, the Jets are playing in the SB. If Brees is the Steelers QB yesterday, the Jets are playing in the SB. If Rivers is the Steelers QB yesterday, the Jets are playing in the SB. If Rodgers is the Steelers QB yesterday, the Jets are playing in the SB (although I love Rodgers mobility as a QB, he is not as big or strong as Roethlsiberger, and I don't think Rodgers would have been able to bull for the extra rushing yards that Ben did on at least 2 rushes for 1st downs).

I'll make you a deal. You admit that without Ben the Steelers wouldn't have won yesterday, and I'll admit that without their defense, they wouldn't have won yesterday.

You want to see if people would give him credit for yesterday's win. Well, guess what? He deserves it. Not all of it, but they don't win that game with many other people at QB.

You got this part wrong, If Roethlisberger was the Saints Qb then they do not make playoffs this year or win the Super Bowl last year...If Roethisberger was the Colts QB then they would be 8-8 consistently every year until they get some offensive balance. Ben does not carry teams! He is good but take off the Black and yellow glasses and realize that. He is not a HOF but might get in because ESPN controls everything about sports. I wish Brees only had to make 2 or 3 plays a game then he might have 4 rings.

I'm not sure how I got anything wrong. I never made any claims about what Roethlisberger would or would not do as Saints or Colts QB. Perhaps you should try reading the entire thread, or at least the parts applicable to what you quote, before you post foolish commentary?Brees is a better fit for the Saints offense than Roethlisberger, and Manning is a better fit for the Colts offense than Roethlisberger, but (and this was my point), Roethlisberger is a better fit for the Steelers offense than Manning, Brees, Brady, Rivers, Rodgers, etc is.

With the Steelers offense (and their underwhelming O-line), to win 2 SBs (and have a shot at a 3rd) a QB would need to be able to withstand hits, make throws after taking hits/escaping pressure, run for yardage when necessary, and be able to throw the ball deep. In the Jets game, a QB without those skills would not have been able to help the Steelers win. Roethlisberger is the best QB with that skill-set in the NFL.

HTH.

ETA-I'm not a Steelers fan, so there's no homerism here. Unfortunately, I'm a Redskins fan, which has sucked for, oh I don't know, the last decade. That being said, I am also a football fan, and Roethlisberger is a good (and under-rated) football player.

I've never said a single bad thing about Ben's play, And I agree that he is a good fit for the team. But your point - that the Steelers couldn't win with a different QB is nutty. They could win with Manning, Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Vick, Rivers, Freeman, Ryan, Eli, Schaub, Romo, Bradford, etc.

Try reading it again. That wasn't my point. My point was that IN THE JETS game, with the defense the Jets were playing, and with Bruce Aryans' offensive philosophy, a QB like Roethlisberger was needed. A QB like Manning or Brady, who rely on a clean pocket to be successful, wouldn't have worked. A QB like Brees, who operates in a different system, and isn't the biggest guy, wouldn't have worked. A QB like Rivers, who doesn't scramble/run, wouldn't have worked. Rodgers would have been the next best fit, but he isn't as big or physical as Roethlisberger, so the key 3rd downs where Roethlisberger bulled through Jets defenders to get the extra yards wouldn't have been converted.Overall, Roethlisberger is the perfect QB for the Steelers combination of Aryans' offense and poor O-line. Plus, he's just a winner. That's not to say that other QBs couldn't win there, although I doubt that they'd have as much success as Roethlisberger. But my point was, and is, that those other QBs wouldn't have been able to pull out a victory in the Jets' game because they don't have Roethlisberger's skill-set.

 

[Bayhawks]

If Brady is the Steelers QB yesterday, the Jets are playing in the SB. If Manning is the Steelers QB yesterday, the Jets are playing in the SB. If Brees is the Steelers QB yesterday, the Jets are playing in the SB. If Rivers is the Steelers QB yesterday, the Jets are playing in the SB. If Rodgers is the Steelers QB yesterday, the Jets are playing in the SB (although I love Rodgers mobility as a QB, he is not as big or strong as Roethlsiberger, and I don't think Rodgers would have been able to bull for the extra rushing yards that Ben did on at least 2 rushes for 1st downs).

I'll make you a deal. You admit that without Ben the Steelers wouldn't have won yesterday, and I'll admit that without their defense, they wouldn't have won yesterday.

You want to see if people would give him credit for yesterday's win. Well, guess what? He deserves it. Not all of it, but they don't win that game with many other people at QB.

You got this part wrong, If Roethlisberger was the Saints Qb then they do not make playoffs this year or win the Super Bowl last year...If Roethisberger was the Colts QB then they would be 8-8 consistently every year until they get some offensive balance. Ben does not carry teams! He is good but take off the Black and yellow glasses and realize that. He is not a HOF but might get in because ESPN controls everything about sports. I wish Brees only had to make 2 or 3 plays a game then he might have 4 rings.

I'm not sure how I got anything wrong. I never made any claims about what Roethlisberger would or would not do as Saints or Colts QB. Perhaps you should try reading the entire thread, or at least the parts applicable to what you quote, before you post foolish commentary?Brees is a better fit for the Saints offense than Roethlisberger, and Manning is a better fit for the Colts offense than Roethlisberger, but (and this was my point), Roethlisberger is a better fit for the Steelers offense than Manning, Brees, Brady, Rivers, Rodgers, etc is.

With the Steelers offense (and their underwhelming O-line), to win 2 SBs (and have a shot at a 3rd) a QB would need to be able to withstand hits, make throws after taking hits/escaping pressure, run for yardage when necessary, and be able to throw the ball deep. In the Jets game, a QB without those skills would not have been able to help the Steelers win. Roethlisberger is the best QB with that skill-set in the NFL.

HTH.

ETA-I'm not a Steelers fan, so there's no homerism here. Unfortunately, I'm a Redskins fan, which has sucked for, oh I don't know, the last decade. That being said, I am also a football fan, and Roethlisberger is a good (and under-rated) football player.

Or he could just post a QB rating of 22.6 and hope the running game and the defense bail him out in the Superbowl. But lets face it. If Manning, Montana, Elway, Unitas, Marino, or Superman would have played in that Superbowl then Pittsburgh would have lost.You crack me up.

I'm glad I amuse you. I guess it's easy to be amused when you don't seem to have the ability to comprehend the written word.I never said that in the Seattle SB (I'm assuming that's what you're alluding to) those other QBs wouldn't have won, what I said was that in Sunday's game, those other QBs don't have the same skill-set that Roethlisberger does, which was necessary, and therefore, they wouldn't have won. Try actually reading before you post sophomoric comments, maybe?

Since you seem to think my comment was so funny, perhaps you'd mind sharing what current QBs you think could have done what Roethlisberger did on Sunday to help the Steelers win?

 

[Stillers Jr.]

My suggestion is to disengage CHAZ.

Agendas and axes to grind abound...(psst, he'll never give it up, logic be damned.)

 

[Chaz McNulty]

If Brady is the Steelers QB yesterday, the Jets are playing in the SB. If Manning is the Steelers QB yesterday, the Jets are playing in the SB. If Brees is the Steelers QB yesterday, the Jets are playing in the SB. If Rivers is the Steelers QB yesterday, the Jets are playing in the SB. If Rodgers is the Steelers QB yesterday, the Jets are playing in the SB (although I love Rodgers mobility as a QB, he is not as big or strong as Roethlsiberger, and I don't think Rodgers would have been able to bull for the extra rushing yards that Ben did on at least 2 rushes for 1st downs).

I'll make you a deal. You admit that without Ben the Steelers wouldn't have won yesterday, and I'll admit that without their defense, they wouldn't have won yesterday.

You want to see if people would give him credit for yesterday's win. Well, guess what? He deserves it. Not all of it, but they don't win that game with many other people at QB.

You got this part wrong, If Roethlisberger was the Saints Qb then they do not make playoffs this year or win the Super Bowl last year...If Roethisberger was the Colts QB then they would be 8-8 consistently every year until they get some offensive balance. Ben does not carry teams! He is good but take off the Black and yellow glasses and realize that. He is not a HOF but might get in because ESPN controls everything about sports. I wish Brees only had to make 2 or 3 plays a game then he might have 4 rings.

I'm not sure how I got anything wrong. I never made any claims about what Roethlisberger would or would not do as Saints or Colts QB. Perhaps you should try reading the entire thread, or at least the parts applicable to what you quote, before you post foolish commentary?Brees is a better fit for the Saints offense than Roethlisberger, and Manning is a better fit for the Colts offense than Roethlisberger, but (and this was my point), Roethlisberger is a better fit for the Steelers offense than Manning, Brees, Brady, Rivers, Rodgers, etc is.

With the Steelers offense (and their underwhelming O-line), to win 2 SBs (and have a shot at a 3rd) a QB would need to be able to withstand hits, make throws after taking hits/escaping pressure, run for yardage when necessary, and be able to throw the ball deep. In the Jets game, a QB without those skills would not have been able to help the Steelers win. Roethlisberger is the best QB with that skill-set in the NFL.

HTH.

ETA-I'm not a Steelers fan, so there's no homerism here. Unfortunately, I'm a Redskins fan, which has sucked for, oh I don't know, the last decade. That being said, I am also a football fan, and Roethlisberger is a good (and under-rated) football player.

Or he could just post a QB rating of 22.6 and hope the running game and the defense bail him out in the Superbowl. But lets face it. If Manning, Montana, Elway, Unitas, Marino, or Superman would have played in that Superbowl then Pittsburgh would have lost.You crack me up.

I'm glad I amuse you. I guess it's easy to be amused when you don't seem to have the ability to comprehend the written word.I never said that in the Seattle SB (I'm assuming that's what you're alluding to) those other QBs wouldn't have won, what I said was that in Sunday's game, those other QBs don't have the same skill-set that Roethlisberger does, which was necessary, and therefore, they wouldn't have won. Try actually reading before you post sophomoric comments, maybe?

Since you seem to think my comment was so funny, perhaps you'd mind sharing what current QBs you think could have done what Roethlisberger did on Sunday to help the Steelers win?

I think you could have picked any number of QB's that would have won Sunday's game. Ben only made a couple plays and was rather pedestrian for the rest of the game.You're correct on that one play though. Manning wouldn't have been able to escape the rush only to throw an interception. He would have just been sacked.

I don't think the game would have been that close with most of the other elite QB's. They alude pressure by making quick reads and getting the ball out way quicker than Ben does. He's pretty slow at going through his progressions, but he does make up for that a bit with his escapability.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Brees, Manning and Brady wouldn't last the entire season with Ben's current OL

This is such a misconception. All of those guys are terrific at immediately finding an open receiver (if there is one), which isn't necessarily Roethlisberger's biggest asset, so the team would likely run a different offense if any of those other guys were the Steelers QB instead of BR. The offense the Steelers run generally plays to Roethlisberger's strengths.

 

[Copeman]

Brees, Manning and Brady wouldn't last the entire season with Ben's current OL

This is such a misconception. All of those guys are terrific at immediately finding an open receiver (if there is one), which isn't necessarily Roethlisberger's biggest asset, so the team would likely run a different offense if any of those other guys were the Steelers QB instead of BR. The offense the Steelers run generally plays to Roethlisberger's strengths.

Likewise, if Ben played on one of those other offenses he would do great as well as noted by his passer accuracy #'s, etc....

 

[Bayhawks]

I think you could have picked any number of QB's that would have won Sunday's game. Ben only made a couple plays and was rather pedestrian for the rest of the game.

So who are they? It's rather easy to make a statement without any proof, explanation, or support. When you have to actually provide logic, reasoning, and support for that statement, it's harder.

I don't think the game would have been that close with most of the other elite QB's. They alude pressure by making quick reads and getting the ball out way quicker than Ben does. He's pretty slow at going through his progressions, but he does make up for that a bit with his escapability.

If you'll excuse my bluntness, you are showing your ignorance (and that you didn't read or don't understand the situation) with this statement. I'll try to explain it once again.In Bruce Aryans' offense, there are very few "quick read" or "quick progressions." It is a vertical-based passing offense that features deep, longer-developing routes. Deep ins and outs, go routes, deep crossing routes, double moves, posts, corners, and go routes are the norm, NOT the quick slant, or quick ins/outs that are more common in other systems.

So a QB who can "alude pressure by making quick reads and getting the ball out way quicker" wouldn't have helped, because the routes wouldn't have developed for him to make the quick reads or release the ball quick. So, when the routes take 4 seconds to develop, but the O-line only gives the QB 2.5-3 seconds before he is pressured, he can't make a "quick read" or "quick throw."

So, once again, the question is: What other QB could have won that game, GIVEN THE STEELERS OFFENSE AND THEIR POROUS O-LINE?

Not, what QB could have won that game if the system was better and they would have the opportunity to utilize shorter routes, quick progressions, etc?

 

[Bayhawks]

Brees, Manning and Brady wouldn't last the entire season with Ben's current OL

This is such a misconception. All of those guys are terrific at immediately finding an open receiver (if there is one), which isn't necessarily Roethlisberger's biggest asset, so the team would likely run a different offense if any of those other guys were the Steelers QB instead of BR. The offense the Steelers run generally plays to Roethlisberger's strengths.

It's not a misconception, it's the way you are interpreting it. This isn't FF, where if a FF team acquires a new QB, you merely get to plug in his stats. You have to consider offensive system, other players, and O-line when you have these discussion. Although I worded it differently, this is what I posted earlier. Roethlisberger is the perfect QB for the Steelers offense. Those other QBs don't have the skill set, and they wouldn't be as successful (and would not have won the Jets game) with that offense and that offensive line. They would still have success, but not (IMO) to the same level as Roethlisberger does. Likewise, if Roethlisberger were in their systems, he would (IMO) still be successful, but not to the same level as they have been/will be.