Is Fantasy Football a Dying Trend? (2 Viewers)

[hauser42]

Fantasy Football has changed dramatically over the past 5 years. In the old days, we all drafted off paper. I know a guy who has been playing this game in a time when one had to use the paper to calculate the final scores. The ADP box that comes up in most drafts makes most teams follow them, so stepping out of the box and grabbing a player early is dictated by where you think he'll be based on the ADP. This is all good news for newbies, but sucks compared to how it used to be when your research dictated where you made your picks.

There are ways to mix it up, which includes different scoring systems. I love a scoring system that emphasizes the team defense. 0-20 = +1 for ever point under 20 scored against, and -1 for every point over 25 scored against. This makes the defense a factor and will shift when the team D's are taken. Bonus points for +25 and +50 yard TD's is another fun rule, as the ADP doesn't factor in things like that.

To the newbie, it's all good for FF. For someone who has been playing this game for over a decade, the ADP sucks having it up on the screen. Technology wins, but fantasy football is hardly dying, but the inverse, as it's an easier game to play now.

I think ADP has actually hurt new players out there at times. They feel secure passing on a player till it is close to his ADP. It takes only person in a draft to jump up guys he like higher than his ADP. I still let my research do my drafting and use the cheatsheet as a reference point.

Being out in front of the normal owners will keep you near the top. I still know guys I have playede with over 20 years ago that still think you have to get 2 RBs in first two picks. They won't ever change I believe.

 

[LawFitz]

Also interesting that a full 2/3 of respondents are over 35 years old. Again, not sure if that means anything to answer the thread title, but it is interesting.

 

[Pigskin Fanatic]

Also interesting that a full 2/3 of respondents are over 35 years old. Again, not sure if that means anything to answer the thread title, but it is interesting.

Was gonna make a similar comment. I didn't read all of the responses here so this may have already been mentioned. I think the NFL became the sport and hit strides in the late 80's and much of the 90's, around the time NBA stopped being the sport to watch. Those of us who were just coming out of college around that time are about in the 30s and 40s now, which is probably the strongest age group in terms of time and disposable income. So the loyalty to the sport, both NFL and Fantasy, will stay strong as long as this generation keeps its interest.

 

[Kenny Powers]

Thanks to everyone for the very interesting discussion. Though the SP is not a true cross section of the fantasy football community, I do perceive it to be a cross section of the hardcore FF players. Very intriguing that with nearly 400 answers to the poll, only about 5% are age 25 years or younger and only about 16% 30 or younger.

Not sure if any conclusions can be drawn from that, but it is food for thought about the topic. Maybe an argument can be made that you wouldn't visit a place like the Sharkpool until you've played the game for a few years and that lag time in and of itself will skew the age range upward.

As for the age range of FBGs in the poll question, I think its fairly self explanatory. Plenty of people here have been around since the cheatsheets.net days, as well as the early days of FBGs around a decade ago. Because of that, naturally the 30-45 age range is going to have plenty of people since everyone has gotten older, and likely didnt start using the site when they were 12. On the other hand, I think more of the younger generation, say 16-22, are more likely to be casual FF people as they undoubtedly started playing FF when the boom occurred. With both of those things in mind, I suspect they just go to ESPN, Yahoo, etc for their fantasy "advice" and likely play in a league at one of those sites as well. Why come here - if theyre even aware of it - and pay for premium content when those sites provide daily information, articles, and up to date rankings/trends for free.

My

 

[Kenny Powers]

Fantasy Football has changed dramatically over the past 5 years. In the old days, we all drafted off paper. I know a guy who has been playing this game in a time when one had to use the paper to calculate the final scores. The ADP box that comes up in most drafts makes most teams follow them, so stepping out of the box and grabbing a player early is dictated by where you think he'll be based on the ADP. This is all good news for newbies, but sucks compared to how it used to be when your research dictated where you made your picks.

There are ways to mix it up, which includes different scoring systems. I love a scoring system that emphasizes the team defense. 0-20 = +1 for ever point under 20 scored against, and -1 for every point over 25 scored against. This makes the defense a factor and will shift when the team D's are taken. Bonus points for +25 and +50 yard TD's is another fun rule, as the ADP doesn't factor in things like that.

I personally hate Team Defense. I never was a fan of it to begin with, and while I hesitantly agreed to a switch to IDP's in my leagues around 5 years ago, I love it and havent looked back. I almost wont even consider playing in leagues with Team D anymore. Now my leagues arent very deep IDP wise (Start 1 LB, 1 DB, 1 D Flex) compared to others here who play in leagues with IDPs, but I find it much more fun, and if you think your scoring makes defenses a factor, think about how having IDP's and needing to select at least a few defensive players but having to weigh when to take them vs offensive skill position depth.

 

[Hoss Style]

I personally hate Team Defense. I never was a fan of it to begin with, and while I hesitantly agreed to a switch to IDP's in my leagues around 5 years ago, I love it and havent looked back. I almost wont even consider playing in leagues with Team D anymore. Now my leagues arent very deep IDP wise (Start 1 LB, 1 DB, 1 D Flex) compared to others here who play in leagues with IDPs, but I find it much more fun, and if you think your scoring makes defenses a factor, think about how having IDP's and needing to select at least a few defensive players but having to weigh when to take them vs offensive skill position depth.

 

[massraider]

New thread:

Are fantasy football message boards a dying trend?

 

[Thews40]

I personally hate Team Defense. I never was a fan of it to begin with, and while I hesitantly agreed to a switch to IDP's in my leagues around 5 years ago, I love it and havent looked back. I almost wont even consider playing in leagues with Team D anymore. Now my leagues arent very deep IDP wise (Start 1 LB, 1 DB, 1 D Flex) compared to others here who play in leagues with IDPs, but I find it much more fun, and if you think your scoring makes defenses a factor, think about how having IDP's and needing to select at least a few defensive players but having to weigh when to take them vs offensive skill position depth.

While I think an IDP would be fun, it takes more research. In the leagues I've played in over the past decade, it's hard enough to get 12 people to commit to a league just to get it off the ground. Adding in IDP with 12 hard core FF people would be fun if you can swing it.

Assuming you are going to use a team D, WCOFF rules suck and they factor in about as much as a kicker. If the premise of FF is to base your win/loss record on your combined stats, a team D that gives up 50 should be negative, because in the real world it's hard to win against 50 points. When a team D gives up a ton and scores a TD, but scores about the same as team D that holds the opposing team to 10 points with no TD's, there something wrong with the scoring system.

Again, I get the IDP fun, but for some it's just too much knowledge they know nothing about. I have a friend in a league where you have to manage salary cap, which I guess could be fun, but seems like too much work.

 

[mitch]

From a 2012 Forbes article...

http://www.forbes.com/sites/leighsteinberg/2012/08/28/fantasy-football-madness/

"It is estimated by the Fantasy Sports Trade Association that 32 million people aged twelve and above in the US and Canada played fantasy sports in 2010. Fantasy football players consist of 90% of the fantasy sports industry. Participation has grown by over 60% the last four years with 19% of males in the U.S. playing fantasy sports."

 

[Captain Hook]

I also have really been enjoying the draft master/best ball leagues that you only have to draft and not worry about a lineup each week. The fact of the matter is that there are more options to play Fantasy Football than ever before. I also find it nearly impossible to have a live in person draft these days, people don't have the time and can't commit.

Ah yes, these are fantastic. Everyone loves doing a draft, but it really is a pain when you have to set 30 lineups , not to mention 30 sets of waivers where you are sure to make a ton of mistakes and oversights, not to mention the pain of having that guy on the bench blow up for 40 points.

Nice to draft and then not have to worry about it at all, other than maybe checking the scoring once on sundays and once on mondays.

I have done a few of these this summer, most of them a slow draft format where the draft took a week or two. Like a junkie getting his fix, you get to make one or two picks per day.

There are live $$ drafts for this format as well - check out NFFC and FFPC

 

[Grigs Allmoon]

If there's a slow death happening in FF, I think that's why. As a hobby, there was something intellectual, time-consuming, and skill-based about it, while it has morphed by and large into an exercise in cut and paste. That makes it easier for lots of people, but minimizes the reward.

Agreed. That's what I was going to say, too.

 

[just_want_2_win]

I'm 24 and I'm quite sure my generation is still going strong. It's only anecdotal of course (like the OP), but I know tons of people who play, some of which who are only really getting into it this year. Even if it's not fantasy football, I also know quite a few people who play fantasy hockey, basketball, baseball and even soccer.

Also, advertising for fantasy football is everywhere. Even stuff like fanduel.com has commercials now. I doubt people are just throwing cash around for ads unless the market is real, growing and statistically proven to be lucrative.

I actually like fanduel type stuff as an interesting and still vital alternative to traditional FF. You still get lots of room for creativity and independent thought in those one-offers.

FF has become little more than endless hordes all touting exactly the same cheatsheets as FF gospel. Cheatsheets which in turn all seem to do very little but regurgitate the previous year's stats.

If there's a slow death happening in FF, I think that's why. As a hobby, there was something intellectual, time-consuming, and skill-based about it, while it has morphed by and large into an exercise in cut and paste. That makes it easier for lots of people, but minimizes the reward.

The feeling around the FF community to me is a lot like the feel in the online poker community after the explosion of HUDs and trackers. The game was still fun, but when anyone willing to dump a few bucks could get a better read on me in an instant than Stu Ungar would have been able to in an hour, it lost a lot of its appeal in trying to get better.

Why put in the effort to know every fact about every team when the compiled data you're going to end up with after six months' of research will give you no edge at all over the guy who does nothing but open a window to an ADP aggregator at the draft table. The only way to get an edge now is to be so eccentric as to seem almost loony to the cheatsheeters. Otherwise, it's almost an exercise in probability. This game is still fun too, but there's not much sense in trying to get better. And that doesn't lend itself to a lifetime of hobbyism.

I see why it's drying up a little.

Terrific post. You nailed it, especially the part I bolded.

 

[cloppbeast]

I think these numbers say more about the age group which frequents a chat forum than one that plays fantasy football.

 

[ghostguy123]

Also interesting that a full 2/3 of respondents are over 35 years old. Again, not sure if that means anything to answer the thread title, but it is interesting.

I dont think this has anything to do with it dying. It makes perfect sense. Fantasy became popular when 35 and ups were younger and they have kept playing.

Plus the younger crowd is out having fun and starting careers. When they are more stable and bored like the rest of us we will see more of them on this forum a few years from now, voting in the 35 and up crowd.

 

[LarryAllen'sJockstrap]

I'm 35. Played my first season in 2000. It was a free yahoo salary cap league. In 2001 I played my first head to head league. 2003-2006 was peak of my interest in the game, playing 4-5 leagues a year. Over the last ~8 years, life has changed. Married, 2 kids... I still play 2-3 leagues a year and run one of them. The draft and the in season contact is one of the few ways I maintain relationships with friends I probably would have otherwise faded away from. It's different now. I spend less time researching and my desire to win is nowhere near what it was 8-10 years ago. For me, it's now more about keeping those relationships going, and I still enjoy the game itself. However, things I used to get worked up over, or the frustration if have if I lost a game for setting the wrong lineup; they just don't bother me anymore.

 

[steveski]

I think these numbers say more about the age group which frequents a chat forum than one that plays fantasy football.

I agree, especially one like this. I visit the fantasy football sub on Reddit pretty often as well and I bet if this were posted there the average age range would be in the 18-25 range. The reason I frequent here is because this place seems to have the most knowledgeable/mature group as a whole.

Fantasy football is a gigantic billion dollar industry. Only the die hards are the ones in these forums discussing players. Majority of people playing just read the notes on their fantasy site or get their fantasy information from TV.

If anything, I bet fantasy football is trending to the younger crowd now.

 

[dblock05]

Fantasy football is at the highest its ever been. My age group (I am 23) is tremendously involved with it. I can't think of many guys I know who aren't in a league.

 

[blake]

Fantasy Football has changed dramatically over the past 5 years. In the old days, we all drafted off paper. I know a guy who has been playing this game in a time when one had to use the paper to calculate the final scores. The ADP box that comes up in most drafts makes most teams follow them, so stepping out of the box and grabbing a player early is dictated by where you think he'll be based on the ADP. This is all good news for newbies, but sucks compared to how it used to be when your research dictated where you made your picks.

There are ways to mix it up, which includes different scoring systems. I love a scoring system that emphasizes the team defense. 0-20 = +1 for ever point under 20 scored against, and -1 for every point over 25 scored against. This makes the defense a factor and will shift when the team D's are taken. Bonus points for +25 and +50 yard TD's is another fun rule, as the ADP doesn't factor in things like that.

I personally hate Team Defense. I never was a fan of it to begin with, and while I hesitantly agreed to a switch to IDP's in my leagues around 5 years ago, I love it and havent looked back. I almost wont even consider playing in leagues with Team D anymore. Now my leagues arent very deep IDP wise (Start 1 LB, 1 DB, 1 D Flex) compared to others here who play in leagues with IDPs, but I find it much more fun, and if you think your scoring makes defenses a factor, think about how having IDP's and needing to select at least a few defensive players but having to weigh when to take them vs offensive skill position depth.

Sorry to hijack the thread...but I'm going to do it anyway. My league is wrestling with this choice - the switch from team defense to IDP's and my thought was if you're only selecting 3-4 defensive players, won't everyone have great players? Meaning, doesn't it come out as a wash and make defensive players then again like team defenses where you can just pick one up as a free agent because the league's free agent players are so good?

Sorry again for the hijack, but I was earnestly curious.

 

[blake]

Or you can find lots of local leagues in every good size city in the US - but they aren't going to knock on your door - if you want them you can find them

That is much easier said than done when the people you know in the same city don't have as much interest in fantasy football as you. That is why I have an online league that takes the league far more seriously than my in person fantasy football league does.

 

[snellman]

Fantasy Football has changed dramatically over the past 5 years. In the old days, we all drafted off paper. I know a guy who has been playing this game in a time when one had to use the paper to calculate the final scores. The ADP box that comes up in most drafts makes most teams follow them, so stepping out of the box and grabbing a player early is dictated by where you think he'll be based on the ADP. This is all good news for newbies, but sucks compared to how it used to be when your research dictated where you made your picks.

There are ways to mix it up, which includes different scoring systems. I love a scoring system that emphasizes the team defense. 0-20 = +1 for ever point under 20 scored against, and -1 for every point over 25 scored against. This makes the defense a factor and will shift when the team D's are taken. Bonus points for +25 and +50 yard TD's is another fun rule, as the ADP doesn't factor in things like that.

I personally hate Team Defense. I never was a fan of it to begin with, and while I hesitantly agreed to a switch to IDP's in my leagues around 5 years ago, I love it and havent looked back. I almost wont even consider playing in leagues with Team D anymore. Now my leagues arent very deep IDP wise (Start 1 LB, 1 DB, 1 D Flex) compared to others here who play in leagues with IDPs, but I find it much more fun, and if you think your scoring makes defenses a factor, think about how having IDP's and needing to select at least a few defensive players but having to weigh when to take them vs offensive skill position depth.

Sorry to hijack the thread...but I'm going to do it anyway. My league is wrestling with this choice - the switch from team defense to IDP's and my thought was if you're only selecting 3-4 defensive players, won't everyone have great players? Meaning, doesn't it come out as a wash and make defensive players then again like team defenses where you can just pick one up as a free agent because the league's free agent players are so good?

Sorry again for the hijack, but I was earnestly curious.

If you want to use IDP, you need to use more than 3-4 players per team. Don't want to get into too much detail, but the leagues I am in use 9-11 idp players. Head over to the IDP forum for more info.

 

[cstu]

As for the age range of FBGs in the poll question, I think its fairly self explanatory. Plenty of people here have been around since the cheatsheets.net days, as well as the early days of FBGs around a decade ago. Because of that, naturally the 30-45 age range is going to have plenty of people since everyone has gotten older, and likely didnt start using the site when they were 12. On the other hand, I think more of the younger generation, say 16-22, are more likely to be casual FF people as they undoubtedly started playing FF when the boom occurred. With both of those things in mind, I suspect they just go to ESPN, Yahoo, etc for their fantasy "advice" and likely play in a league at one of those sites as well. Why come here - if theyre even aware of it - and pay for premium content when those sites provide daily information, articles, and up to date rankings/trends for free.

My

I didn't get started in FF until I was in my late 20's and would not have taken it very seriously at 16-22, too many other things going on to worry about FF.

 

[BassNBrew]

Saw a stat today where only 15% of the visitors to FBG.com visit these forums.

 

[Manster]

FF is the thing to do among sports fans. Many don't put in the time....sometimes myself included. Life is busy, not everyone can be a FF dork. I think the format and people make it or break it. Involved owners and simple scoring and rules are my preference.

 

[Chapelboy]

My dynasty league mates are losing interest. 28-36, many have gotten married, half have kids, careers, etc. We stay because it's fun and it's dynasty, so turnover is more complicated. Plus it gives us all a reason to stay in touch with one another.

I'm 48 and been playing for 20 years. I'm commish of our dynasty league and although there have been years in the past where I've wanted to step down and walk away, I can't, because I'm a control freak and I don't trust anyone to run the league the way it needs to be run...plus it's all about staying in touch with good friends.

 

[Chapelboy]

I'm 35. Played my first season in 2000. It was a free yahoo salary cap league. In 2001 I played my first head to head league. 2003-2006 was peak of my interest in the game, playing 4-5 leagues a year. Over the last ~8 years, life has changed. Married, 2 kids... I still play 2-3 leagues a year and run one of them. The draft and the in season contact is one of the few ways I maintain relationships with friends I probably would have otherwise faded away from. It's different now. I spend less time researching and my desire to win is nowhere near what it was 8-10 years ago. For me, it's now more about keeping those relationships going, and I still enjoy the game itself. However, things I used to get worked up over, or the frustration if have if I lost a game for setting the wrong lineup; they just don't bother me anymore.

this is it right here, that i forgot to add in my previous post. Must just be that dang maturity settin' in