Is it ever ok to use a belt to discipline your child? (5 Viewers)

[modogg]

There is definitely a time for punishment.  Doesn't have to be corporal, but there needs to be some kind of deterrent or there will be behavior issues with the vast majority of kids.

yikes. I hate to enter this thread, but in all honesty this statement couldn't be more inaccurate. How about a positive approach, and teaching a kid to strive for something and to obtain it. I can go into what i do for a living, etc., but really this approach is not the best way to go about it. You teach a kid to fear you, instead of teaching a kid a positive way to get something they desire. 

 

[modogg]

That’s a pretty poor example. Of course that’s the parents fault. 

I would argue a lot of behavior issues come from parents letting kids get tired/hungry/frustrated because the parent isn’t paying attention. 

The best thing we did for our kids was get them on a consistent sleep routine early. Yes - it restricted our lives. But, it’s so worth it. 

What if that 3 year old hits his sister, you tell him no, and the second you turn your back he hits her harder?  Is that just him ‘struggling through a situation?’  No. That’s blatant disobedience. 

Dont spank him but yes, you need a punishment to deter the behavior. 

well what are you teaching a child by spanking them in this scenario above or hitting them with a belt? Particularly at that age, a lot of the behavior is learned through modeling and by striking a child the message being delivered would suggest that when a child is frustrated or meets an impediment that the way to correct it is by striking it. 

 

[mr roboto]

well what are you teaching a child by spanking them in this scenario above or hitting them with a belt? Particularly at that age, a lot of the behavior is learned through modeling and by striking a child the message being delivered would suggest that when a child is frustrated or meets an impediment that the way to correct it is by striking it. 

Try not to hop into a conversation mid stream next time. 

 

[El Floppo]

That’s a pretty poor example. Of course that’s the parents fault. 

I would argue a lot of behavior issues come from parents letting kids get tired/hungry/frustrated because the parent isn’t paying attention. 

The best thing we did for our kids was get them on a consistent sleep routine early. Yes - it restricted our lives. But, it’s so worth it. 

What if that 3 year old hits his sister, you tell him no, and the second you turn your back he hits her harder?  Is that just him ‘struggling through a situation?’  No. That’s blatant disobedience. 

Dont spank him but yes, you need a punishment to deter the behavior. 

well what are you teaching a child by spanking them in this scenario above or hitting them with a belt? Particularly at that age, a lot of the behavior is learned through modeling and by striking a child the message being delivered would suggest that when a child is frustrated or meets an impediment that the way to correct it is by striking it. 

 

[EYLive]

As I would have guessed, 19 pages of arguing has gotten you all nowhere.

 

[Gally]

There are potential ramifications to the brain as well: A 2009 study of 23 young adults who had repeated exposure to harsh corporal punishment found reduced gray matter volume in an area of the prefrontal cortex that is believed to play a crucial role in social cognition. Those exposed to harsh punishment also had a lower performance I.Q. than that of a control group.

I am confused as to how a spanking causes "reduced gray matter volume in an area of the prefontal cortex".  Isn't that something in bodily/brain development.  Not sure how spanking would contribute to that growth (or lack of growth).  Wouldn't this more be an indication that a kid would be misbehaving because they don't understand what they are doing leading to frustrated parents?

 

[Jayrod]

There is definitely a time for punishment.  Doesn't have to be corporal, but there needs to be some kind of deterrent or there will be behavior issues with the vast majority of kids.

yikes. I hate to enter this thread, but in all honesty this statement couldn't be more accurate. How about a positive approach, and teaching a kid to strive for something and to obtain it. I can go into what i do for a living, etc., but really this approach is not the best way to go about it. You teach a kid to fear you, instead of teaching a kid a positive way to get something they desire. 

I assume you mean inaccurate?  This is really confusing.  Are you saying no punishment (i.e. grounding, withholding privileges) is acceptable and only use positive reinforcement?  I'm curious what you "do for a living", because there isn't a single school official or parent who doesn't have to discipline kids at some time or another.

I'm not saying don't use a positive approach first, but discipline also has its place, as does a healthy respect for authority.

 

[Kanil]

I am confused as to how a spanking causes "reduced gray matter volume in an area of the prefontal cortex".  Isn't that something in bodily/brain development.  Not sure how spanking would contribute to that growth (or lack of growth).  Wouldn't this more be an indication that a kid would be misbehaving because they don't understand what they are doing leading to frustrated parents?

Could also be read as the parents that spank their kids passed that "reduced gray matter volume in an area of the prefrontal cortex" down to their kids genetically.  Maybe that leads them to be more likely to spank their kids.

 

[modogg]

I assume you mean inaccurate?  This is really confusing.  Are you saying no punishment (i.e. grounding, withholding privileges) is acceptable and only use positive reinforcement?  I'm curious what you "do for a living", because there isn't a single school official or parent who doesn't have to discipline kids at some time or another.

I'm not saying don't use a positive approach first, but discipline also has its place, as does a healthy respect for authority.

Board Certified Behavior Analyst. Oversee multiple BH/MH programs, one of which is a parent training program, and also oversee a foster care program. Have also spent years working with the local school district training teachers on classroom management techniques. I work with the Philly school district (as well as the population through the other programs), and am all too well aware of how ineffective using discipline techniques alone is.

I am not saying punishment is unacceptable, rather it is ineffective (long term more so) and doesn't address the behavior or motivation behind it. If we are talking about positive punishment, or negative punishment, they should be done with various guidelines and expectations to be effective. I am well aware of parents and school officials being dependent on punishment techniques, and there are reasons why the issues that exist go on and on.

ETA: to the original point, spanking or hitting a kid with a belt is also not the end all, be all. after working with tons of kids who have had way worse than that, it is refreshing to see the resilience in kids to overcome these various abuses. the main argument is that it is really lazy parenting technique and does not teach anything. It also can lead to tons of other issues.

 

[ghostguy123]

I am confused as to how a spanking causes "reduced gray matter volume in an area of the prefontal cortex".  Isn't that something in bodily/brain development.  Not sure how spanking would contribute to that growth (or lack of growth).  Wouldn't this more be an indication that a kid would be misbehaving because they don't understand what they are doing leading to frustrated parents?

Traumatic events change brain chemistry in children.  Scientifically proven.  

Look up ACE scores and what they mean.

 

[jdoggydogg]

Let's set aside all the science that proves corporal punishment does not work and look at this another way. Your child yearns for your love and approval. They are learning how to be people, and you are their primary teacher. Using words to discipline your child is very effective. Using violence is not. 

 

[seahawk 17]

I would never hit my kid with a belt, but I would not hesitate at spanking them with a hand. In other news, my kids will never kill me for arguing about grades or video games.  

I also hug my kids every day, tell them I love them everyday, and explain the reason behind a spanking or time out.

The bottom line, is you need to balance discipline and being loving equally...that's the hard part of parenting.

 

[jdoggydogg]

I would never hit my kid with a belt, but I would not hesitate at spanking them with a hand. In other news, my kids will never kill me for arguing about grades or video games.  

Aroooooo?

 

[Fan of Charles McCoy]

No way would I ever lay a hand on any of my kids. I wouldn’t be able to look them in the eye without shame ever again.

 

[babydemon90]

There was a good book on this I read once, "No-Drama Discipline".  Breaks down what happens inside a childs brain when you use various forms of discipline, etc.

 

[Judge Smails]

No way would I ever lay a hand on any of my kids. I wouldn’t be able to look them in the eye without shame ever again.

I spanked my daughter one time. Have always regretted it

 

[Jayrod]

Board Certified Behavior Analyst. Oversee multiple BH/MH programs, one of which is a parent training program, and also oversee a foster care program. Have also spent years working with the local school district training teachers on classroom management techniques. I work with the Philly school district (as well as the population through the other programs), and am all too well aware of how ineffective using discipline techniques alone is.

I am not saying punishment is unacceptable, rather it is ineffective (long term more so) and doesn't address the behavior or motivation behind it. If we are talking about positive punishment, or negative punishment, they should be done with various guidelines and expectations to be effective. I am well aware of parents and school officials being dependent on punishment techniques, and there are reasons why the issues that exist go on and on.

I just keep getting the sense that you are throwing out the baby with the bathwater here.  Yes, spanking is bad.  Yes negative punishment techniques alone are bad.  I don't think anyone would argue that.  However, I disagree that any negative form of punishment is ineffective.

Also, to be completely honest, I think never utilizing any form of negative punishment in discipline is setting children up to fail in adulthood.  What happens when someone who has never been punished gets in trouble with the law or with their employer and starts getting punished?  At some point in time a child has to learn that the rest of the world isn't going to have sympathy for what is going on in their heads or at home and is simply going to make them pay for their actions.  Getting to the root cause is great in theory, but completely impractical in most aggregate social situations.  For some things, all we have is a negative deterrent and without that there is nothing in place to deter bad behavior.  Failing to teach a young adult this reality can have some dire consequences.

 

[sublimeone]

In my limited experience (2 kids) I believe there is a very narrow use for spanking (i'd never condone the use of a belt/paddle etc...). It should be used exclusively for outright defiance of young children (2-3 years old) whereby failure to adhere to the request could result in pain/damage to themselves, someone else or property. Immediately prior to spanking, the child has been asked to stop multiple times and told that failure to adhere will result in a spanking. 

I'm pretty sure I only had to spank my son once. It was because he was hitting the dog. It went something like this:

Hit 1: Bud, stop hitting the dog

Hit 2: Stop hitting the dog buddy. Do you hear him growling? I don't want him to bite you.

Hit 3: Ok, if you hit him again I have to give you a spanking.

Hit 4: Pick son up and take him to another room. "I told you you'd get a spanking if you keep hitting the dog so now I have to do it. I really don't want to do this but I need you to listen because I don't want him to bite you." Then I gave him a slap on the butt and he cried and I gave him a hug. No more hitting the dog, OK? 

It worked and I doubt any psychological harm was done. If timeouts or taking a toy away worked with my son that might have been a better option but it didn't and when they are that young sometimes that's all they understand. After that all I had to do was threaten it. Sometime later, we were at an outdoor party with a playhouse and he was pushing kids at the top of the slide. I told him to stop a few times, which he ignored, so I picked him up, walked away from the area and told him that what he was doing could hurt the kids because they might fall off the slide and that if he did it again I would have to give him a spanking. It worked.

Once they are old enough to reason, spanking should cease and discipline should take the form of taking things away, timeouts etc...and spanking should never be a hostile act, done out of anger. That sends the wrong message. It should be controlled, explained and rare.

 

[El Floppo]

for clarity, because the thread title...

nobody is actually condoning using a belt to hit their kid... right?

 

[El Floppo]

and ftr- I've never had to spank either of my kids and honestly can't imagine a single situation that would warrant it.

I explain situations to them and why their behavior is unacceptable- and if the behavior continues explain what the (appropriate to the situation) consequences of their actions will be. then I follow up with whatever I've discussed (if I'm part of the consequence).

clarity and consistency are the keys, IMO... because I believe all kids are whip-smart even if they're going through natural developmental stages that cause them to act like idiots. I was/am always amazed at how well the kids learned and absorbed these kind of moments even if it might take several of the moments for them to fully "get" it.

 

[Buddy Ball 2K3]

As a child of the 70's I got "the belt" as did quite a few of my buddies. While I don't have any children, I can't imagine using any sort of corporal punishment on a child. 

 

[babydemon90]

In my limited experience (2 kids) I believe there is a very narrow use for spanking (i'd never condone the use of a belt/paddle etc...). It should be used exclusively for outright defiance of young children (2-3 years old) whereby failure to adhere to the request could result in pain/damage to themselves, someone else or property. Immediately prior to spanking, the child has been asked to stop multiple times and told that failure to adhere will result in a spanking. 

I'm pretty sure I only had to spank my son once. It was because he was hitting the dog. It went something like this:

Hit 1: Bud, stop hitting the dog

Hit 2: Stop hitting the dog buddy. Do you hear him growling? I don't want him to bite you.

Hit 3: Ok, if you hit him again I have to give you a spanking.

Hit 4: Pick son up and take him to another room. "I told you you'd get a spanking if you keep hitting the dog so now I have to do it. I really don't want to do this but I need you to listen because I don't want him to bite you." Then I gave him a slap on the butt and he cried and I gave him a hug. No more hitting the dog, OK? 

It worked and I doubt any psychological harm was done. If timeouts or taking a toy away worked with my son that might have been a better option but it didn't and when they are that young sometimes that's all they understand. After that all I had to do was threaten it. Sometime later, we were at an outdoor party with a playhouse and he was pushing kids at the top of the slide. I told him to stop a few times, which he ignored, so I picked him up, walked away from the area and told him that what he was doing could hurt the kids because they might fall off the slide and that if he did it again I would have to give him a spanking. It worked.

Once they are old enough to reason, spanking should cease and discipline should take the form of taking things away, timeouts etc...and spanking should never be a hostile act, done out of anger. That sends the wrong message. It should be controlled, explained and rare.

You realize the message you're sending - "stop hitting".  "stop hitting or I will hit you". Proceed to hit son.  "Now,  no more hitting ok".  The you literally say once they are old enough to reason you stop.  In other words, you hit a small child that was too young to know better - for hitting.

 

[IC FBGCav]

As a child of the 70's I got "the belt" as did quite a few of my buddies. While I don't have any children, I can't imagine using any sort of corporal punishment on a child. 

I am the in the same boat exactly.  Only to add if there is a situation where the child doesn't listen, getting the belt isn't going to matter.  It's a deeper problem and they need major professional help.

Belt only works on a kid that parents didn't/couldn't communicate well with.

 

[sublimeone]

You realize the message you're sending - "stop hitting".  "stop hitting or I will hit you". Proceed to hit son.  "Now,  no more hitting ok".  The you literally say once they are old enough to reason you stop.  In other words, you hit a small child that was too young to know better - for hitting.

At that age a child is not reaching the conclusion you are asserting.

 

[Gr00vus]

At that age a child is not reaching the conclusion you are asserting.

Right, they just learn to fear their parents.

 

[sublimeone]

Right, they just learn to fear their parents.

Re-read my post. My son doesn’t fear me. I reserve the use of sparking as a last resort when my child’s safety or another’s safety is at stake. 

I was not angry when it happened it was simply a consequence and that’s how he took it. 

 

[El Floppo]

Re-read my post. My son doesn’t fear me. I reserve the use of sparking as a last resort when my child’s safety or another’s safety is at stake. 

I was not angry when it happened it was simply a consequence and that’s how he took it. 

Why that consequence though? 

 

[Scoresman]

Re-read my post. My son doesn’t fear me. I reserve the use of sparking as a last resort when my child’s safety or another’s safety is at stake. 

I was not angry when it happened it was simply a consequence and that’s how he took it. 

Now you're electrocuting him too? Come on man.

 

[sublimeone]

Why that consequence though? 

I think it’s thoroughly explained in my original post. 

Guys - I agree with you non-spankers for the most part and I if there were no gray area I’d side with you.

With that said I think it’s important to make a distinction between disciplining a child out of anger and disciplining a child In a controlled manner as a consequence. Any sort of consequence (physical or not) is wrong if it’s done out of anger because it produces fear and the child then obeys because he’s afraid of what the parent will do if he disobeys. I think we can all agree this undermines a child’s development.

Physically disciplining a child as a consequence, done in a controlled manner is akin to the child learning the top of the stove is hot. He doesn’t avoid the kitchen and walk around in constant fear of the stove, but he remembers there’s a painful consequence and chooses not to repeat the behavior. With small children sometimes this last resort is necessary for their sake or for the sake of others. 

 

[The Duff Man]

There is a lot of close mindedness in here with the “not ever” people. 

What is worse in the example on this page. The damage to the brain and child fearing you from being spanked ONE TIME in their life. 

Or risking them being mauled by a dog. 

Of course there are other options...with those consequences is this the time that you want to test those to see if they work?  

Using my hand I spanked my oldest once and my youngest twice.  No regrets. 

 

[[scooter]]

Re-read my post. My son doesn’t fear me. I reserve the use of sparking as a last resort when my child’s safety or another’s safety is at stake. 

I very much doubt that your son understands the precise reason why you're hitting him.

And even if he did, I'm not sure if it's a good idea for children to think "It's okay to hit someone I love because I think I'm protecting them."

 

[sublimeone]

I very much doubt that your son understands the precise reason why you're hitting him.

And even if he did, I'm not sure if it's a good idea for children to think "It's okay to hit someone I love because I think I'm protecting them."

Do you scream at your children?

 

[modogg]

this whole thread is just kind of silly no? you guys realize there is decades of research on this stuff, and they all conclude the same general idea that hitting a child is not an effective way to discipline or teach a child? i mean literal decades of research....... I get people don't want to agree with experts in the field, and think they know better then decades of research, but maybe they could be on to something?

it's baffling. Sure your kid can survive and overcome getting hit by belt or spanking. But it is certainly a flawed way to raise a kid and the data backing this up is overwhleming

 

[El Floppo]

I think it’s thoroughly explained in my original post. 

Guys - I agree with you non-spankers for the most part and I if there were no gray area I’d side with you.

With that said I think it’s important to make a distinction between disciplining a child out of anger and disciplining a child In a controlled manner as a consequence. Any sort of consequence (physical or not) is wrong if it’s done out of anger because it produces fear and the child then obeys because he’s afraid of what the parent will do if he disobeys. I think we can all agree this undermines a child’s development.

Physically disciplining a child as a consequence, done in a controlled manner is akin to the child learning the top of the stove is hot. He doesn’t avoid the kitchen and walk around in constant fear of the stove, but he remembers there’s a painful consequence and chooses not to repeat the behavior. With small children sometimes this last resort is necessary for their sake or for the sake of others. 

I genuinely appreciate- and respect- the difference between re-acting out of anger vs acting in a non-emotional way that supports an intention. Ive never had to hit my kids to keep them from doing something or to teach them a lesson, so I'm asking why that vs something else as a consequence. Not trying to pull an a-ha, caught ya, moment... Just trying to understand the point at which you think any/every other option won't work.

 

[sublimeone]

I genuinely appreciate- and respect- the difference between re-acting out of anger vs acting in a non-emotional way that supports an intention. Ive never had to hit my kids to keep them from doing something or to teach them a lesson, so I'm asking why that vs something else as a consequence. Not trying to pull an a-ha, caught ya, moment... Just trying to understand the point at which you think any/every other option won't work.

Re-read my original post. I specifically address this.

 

[Judge Smails]

I think it’s thoroughly explained in my original post. 

Guys - I agree with you non-spankers for the most part and I if there were no gray area I’d side with you.

With that said I think it’s important to make a distinction between disciplining a child out of anger and disciplining a child In a controlled manner as a consequence. Any sort of consequence (physical or not) is wrong if it’s done out of anger because it produces fear and the child then obeys because he’s afraid of what the parent will do if he disobeys. I think we can all agree this undermines a child’s development.

Physically disciplining a child as a consequence, done in a controlled manner is akin to the child learning the top of the stove is hot. He doesn’t avoid the kitchen and walk around in constant fear of the stove, but he remembers there’s a painful consequence and chooses not to repeat the behavior. With small children sometimes this last resort is necessary for their sake or for the sake of others. 

I understand your point.  Don't know if there is a difference, but I consider this a swat to get their attention vs a spanking.  IMO even a swat should be a last resort. It will be interesting to see how our kids parent now that they will be a full generation removed from the spankings we use to get. I think it will only exist mainly in less educated or "spare the rod, spoil the child" bible belt homes.

 

[El Floppo]

Re-read my original post. I specifically address this.

you couldn't get through to him any other way, and felt like you had to spank him. I got it originally. 

 

[Judge Smails]

Like I said, other societies have evolved. We can too 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.vcstar.com/amp/2116699002