is it time to ban smoking and tobacco products ? (1 Viewer)

[Zow]

topics turn into wide varieties of discussions 

overwhelmingly people are voting here on this poll that 700,000 dead people every year is acceptable so that 35 million can enjoy their habit of smoking/chewing

do you agree/ ?  that's pretty much the conclusion here right ?

No, that's not what they are voting for. They are voting simply for whether the act of smoking should be illegal. The two aren't and don't mean the same. 

For example, the current rate of infidelity in marriages is not a number that, if I were king of the world, I think is good and that I would "accept." However, whether I think it should be accepted and not addressed through some proactive measures, etc. is not the same as thinking it should be made illegal/criminalized. 

 

[skol asylum]

Yes

 

[crackattack]

dead is dead isn't it ?

50-70 million gun owners yesterday did nothing wrong - a few dozens did ................. if its time to fix anything shouldn't we focus on who the problem is ?  tobacco users are a problem - their addictions and choices lead to tens of thousands of second hand smoke death. Up until covid masks, cig butt's were the #1 pollutant in the ocean

there is literally no good that comes from it

isn't it time to fix that ??  if the one poster is right - smokers WANT to quit anyway - lets force them

Did my smoking cause anyone harm? No. Did my smoking cause others to die? No. Bad people with access to guns are a problem. Period. 

I'm about as libertarian as they come, but at a point we've got to realize we have a people and gun problem. It sickens me we are on par with Afghanistan and Syria with gun deaths. Those are war zones. America should be sooooooooooooo much better. Yet we are a war zone. 

I don't know what the correct answer is, but to do nothing is untenable and irresponsible. I personally believe this freedom of gun ownership needs constitutionally challenged. And for the record. I own 2 AR's, about 4 handguns, a couple of shotguns, and a couple of varmint rifles.

 

[Stealthycat]

I say this as somebody who thinks that drugs, while terrible, also shouldn't be illegal to consume. Same with high fructose corn syurp, etc. 

at what point do you draw the line and say hey, the Govt is going to force you to be safe ?

wearing masks? driving tired or driving impaired? when your BMI hits 30% ? 

it is a false sense to think people actions only affect themselves - actions affect others almost every time

their addictions and choices lead to tens of thousands of second hand smoke death.

Where are you getting this?

https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact_sheets/secondhand_smoke/health_effects/index.htm#:~:text=Secondhand smoke causes nearly 34%2C000,the United States among nonsmokers.&text=Nonsmokers who are exposed to,disease by 25–30%.&text=Secondhand smoke increases the risk for stroke by 20−30%.

Exposure to secondhand smoke has immediate adverse effects on the cardiovascular system and can cause coronary heart disease and stroke.2,4,5

Secondhand smoke causes nearly 34,000 premature deaths from heart disease each year in the United States among nonsmokers.4

Nonsmokers who are exposed to secondhand smoke at home or at work increase their risk of developing heart disease by 25–30%.1

Secondhand smoke increases the risk for stroke by 20−30%.4

Secondhand smoke exposure causes more than 8,000 deaths from stroke annually.4

Breathing secondhand smoke can have immediate adverse effects on your blood and blood vessels, increasing the risk of having a heart attack.2,3,4

Breathing secondhand smoke interferes with the normal functioning of the heart, blood, and vascular systems in ways that increase the risk of having a heart attack.

Even brief exposure to secondhand smoke can damage the lining of blood vessels and cause your blood platelets to become stickier. These changes can cause a deadly heart attack.

People who already have heart disease are at especially high risk of suffering adverse effects from breathing secondhand smoke and should take special precautions to avoid even brief exposures.1

 

[Stealthycat]

Did my smoking cause anyone harm? No. Did my smoking cause others to die? No. Bad people with access to guns are a problem. Period. 

see above

yes, people smoking cause other people's deaths and health issues

people smoking have a massive impact on health care costs

cigarette butts are the #1 ocean pollutant - smokers literally are killing the planet with their waste aren't they ?

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/plastic-straw-ban-cigarette-butts-are-single-greatest-source-ocean-n903661

I could argue that literally EVERY smoker directly impacts everyone else by their trash/pollution and/or their medical costs to society

Almost every gun owner impacts literally nobody else

 

[Stealthycat]

For example, the current rate of infidelity in marriages is not a number that, if I were king of the world, I think is good and that I would "accept." However, whether I think it should be accepted and not addressed through some proactive measures, etc. is not the same as thinking it should be made illegal/criminalized. 

that's actually an excellent topic I'd like to see - infidelity, should it be illegal? 

good arguments that it should

 

[[icon]]

Man people sure love giving away other people's freedom in this forum. 

 

[Zow]

that's actually an excellent topic I'd like to see - infidelity, should it be illegal? 

good arguments that it should

No there really isn’t. 

 

[Stealthycat]

No there really isn’t. 

actually yes

a divorce damages people mentally and financially 

why would we be ok as a society to allow such a thing ?

 

[KarmaPolice]

making divorce and infidelity illegal? 

SC must work for the prison system.  

 

[tymarsas]

actually yes

a divorce damages people mentally and financially 

why would we be ok as a society to allow such a thing ?

Do you think making it illegal would reduce it? 

ETA: By "it", I meant infidelity.

ETA2: To answer my own question. I don't think it would reduce it much if any. There are already some serious consequences to getting caught committing adultery and it doesn't stop people. Criminalizing it would just create more criminals which would likely have more negative consequences than divorce.

 

[Spartans Rule]

What about making bad analogies on a message board? Can we make that illegal?

 

[Stealthycat]

There are already some serious consequences to getting caught committing adultery

can you list those please?

the person committing adultery .... what "serious" consequences do they face?

because their spouse - they're hurt terribly ........... their kids hurt terribly with the destruction of the family. Financially men in divorces lose horribly

the guy/gal doing the adulterous behavior with the married person? they risk nothing at all too

please, explain

 

[tymarsas]

can you list those please?

the person committing adultery .... what "serious" consequences do they face?

because their spouse - they're hurt terribly ........... their kids hurt terribly with the destruction of the family. Financially men in divorces lose horribly

the guy/gal doing the adulterous behavior with the married person? they risk nothing at all too

please, explain

I think you touched on many of them. Hurting their spouse and kids. Losing financially in a divorce. Losing friends is another consequence. Losing their job or reputation is another one. STDs possibly. Plenty of consequences to commiting adultery.

I was mostly thinking about the situation where both partners are married and face equal consequences. I'd agree that if one of the partners is unmarried, they probably face fewer consequences.

But not sure than criminalizing adultery is going to reduce it. Do you think that people that commit adultery are the type of people that worry about the consequences of their adultery?

 

[AAABatteries]

How about the feds not allowing junk food to be bought with food stamps?  

Three things come to mind which would probably make me not for it:

1. Who gets to decide what is junk food?

2. Fresh, more healthy food is frequently more expensive unfortunately*

3. Everybody should get to have a candy bar now and again if they choose 

*I would definitely enjoy in favor of subsidizing fruits and vegetables or giving discounts to people on food stamps 

 

[FairWarning]

Three things come to mind which would probably make me not for it:

1. Who gets to decide what is junk food?

2. Fresh, more healthy food is frequently more expensive unfortunately*

3. Everybody should get to have a candy bar now and again if they choose 

*I would definitely enjoy in favor of subsidizing fruits and vegetables or giving discounts to people on food stamps 

The feds decide what is allowed on the WIC program and that runs smoothly. 

 

[Stealthycat]

The feds decide what is allowed on the WIC program and that runs smoothly. 

runs smoothly ....

https://www.google.com/search?q=WIC+fraud&rlz=1C1ONGR_enUS935US935&biw=1920&bih=903&tbm=nws&sxsrf=ALeKk00bFa2zaebJaGZcUB2cGvPtqbEvYQ%3A1617114752363&ei=gDZjYPDZFdm7tQahx7KYDw&oq=WIC+fraud&gs_l=psy-ab.3...12260.12988.0.13144.5.5.0.0.0.0.131.239.0j2.2.0....0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..3.1.108...0.0.GGBAWAcwbMg

 

[Sand]

Someone can advertise 'natural ingredients' on their label.  That sounds harmless, at worst.  It is actually not, and the standard to call something natural is laughable.  

Botulinum toxin is natural.  (i.e. natural doesn't necessarily mean better).

America is violent. Times are different. If people can't handle those freedoms without infringing on others rights to life and liberty, then it's time to fix it.

No, it isn't.  If you zoom into now it still isn't.  We just have this myopic view of what violence was like in the "good old days".

 

[FairWarning]

runs smoothly ....

https://www.google.com/search?q=WIC+fraud&rlz=1C1ONGR_enUS935US935&biw=1920&bih=903&tbm=nws&sxsrf=ALeKk00bFa2zaebJaGZcUB2cGvPtqbEvYQ%3A1617114752363&ei=gDZjYPDZFdm7tQahx7KYDw&oq=WIC+fraud&gs_l=psy-ab.3...12260.12988.0.13144.5.5.0.0.0.0.131.239.0j2.2.0....0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..3.1.108...0.0.GGBAWAcwbMg

I think for the most part, it is far smoother than the food stamp cards.  You can buy those at inner city stores for 50-70 cents on the dollar. That has been a dirty little secret for years.  Now the WIC may have chances, you had to show ID at the stores to use them.