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Is Now the Time to Sell Calvin Johnson? (1 Viewer)

joffer said:
Stafford being Stafford
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He definitely sucks. He thinks he's Brett Favre but he's got Favre's gunslinger mentality with little ability. You may want to at least look Calvin's way instead of totally ignoring that he is even on the field.

 
Shutout said:
lod01 said:
georg013 said:
Caldwell needs to be cut loose.
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And take 'way in over his head' Joe Lombardi with him.

On the fifth snap of the game, Johnson turned a short pass into a 28-yard gain. Officially, he had two more targets, but he didn’t touch the ball again until after the 2-minute warning in the fourth quarter.

Part of their m.o. is to let the other team come back and take the lead while ignoring the best player on the field, then attempt a futile comeback in the 4th Q. How the #### did this idiot become a HC.

Matthew Stafford’s explanation of why he only threw to the best Lions player four times surely won’t satisfy anyone.

“We’re just trying to take what the defense gives us,” he said.

Hey Stafford, grow a pair of balls. You too Calvin. Jerry Rice or Randy Moss would have been right in Lombardi's face, straightening him out. The guy is obviously clueless.

In order for Calvin to get the ball, the Lions are going to need to lose more games just like this in the coming weeks. If they would have pulled this out of their ###, like they did last year, Calvin will be ignored. Fortunately the Lions D is not good now. However, it will take a month or 2 for Caldwell to figure out that his philosophy of pulling #### out of his ### in the 4th Q, doesn't work.
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That's just the culture instilled by the personality of the coach. Not much Stafford can do about it without being a contrarian and "not a team player". But what do you expect from Caldwell? He's always going to be conservative and not possess that killer instinct.
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That's what a loser looks like.

After the game, that question -- why weren't the Lions looking for Johnson, while the Chargers reeled off 30 unanswered points? -- made its way to the locker room. The consensus: Detroit was simply taking what the defense gave them.

Right, just let the other team dictate what you can do. How is this idiot not fired today?

"We have plays that we call. Plays have options, and we've worked out a progression to throw to guys that are open," Jim Caldwell said. "So it just kind of depends. You might find there are some games where he gets 10 balls, and some games he might get three balls, or two. It's just kind of how it happens with offensive football."

The NFL is a copy-cat league, of course, and the Lions are likely to see similar coverages against Johnson until the Lions prove they can make defenses pay.

And since the Lions seem intent on not forcing the ball to Johnson in double-coverage, there could be more days ahead where he is not active in the passing game.

"We're just trying to take what the defense gives us, and they were doing a great job of playing two men to his side quite often," Stafford said. "Cutting to him if they were shallow routes. They were paying a bunch of attention to him, just like all good teams that we play.

"Every game is different, and we'll find ways to get him the ball when we need to."

These idiots just told the rest of the league how to defend them. They also told the other teams that they won't do anything about it. The correct line is, we have to get our best player the ball. instead of making excuses, you admit you ####ed up and are going to fix it.

 
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Taking what the defense gives you a recipe for letting the defense dictate what you do. Falling in love with the RB/TE screen and hi-lo is what the Saints did with Lombardi as QB coach and that's probably what he learned under, but the Saints were doing that with Brees, Graham, Sproles and Colston.

Having said that I'm guessing some owning CJ who saw that ridiculousness might be frustrated enough to trade him.

 
Would have given up two 1st round picks for this guy this summer. Now it's looking more and more like one 1st......he hasn't got hurt yet this year either which is bound to happen with that knee.......

 
I was watching this game and wondering why they wouldn't give Megatron more looks. Being a chargers fan though, I was perfectly content with this. I thought he was going to have a field day.

 
He took a short pass for a 28 yard gain on the 5th snap then didn't touch the ball again until after the 2 minute warning in the 4th quarter. Sell him if you want. I don't know if Calvin has lost a step or not but yesterday at least, he very definitely wasn't the problem.

 
Well if he misses another 3-4 games with an injury it will be tough to even get a 1st for him. I'd sell him if you aren't in the running this year for as much as I could get.

 
Calvin 'Don't give me the damn ball, I'm OK with it' Johnson.

I can't believe that he just let the Lions coaching staff slap him in the face. What kind of WR agrees with his own coaching staff that he's been neutralized by another team's game plan? They flat out slapped him in the face and said you are not good enough to catch the ball if the other team puts bracket coverage on you.

 
lod01 said:
Calvin 'Don't give me the damn ball, I'm OK with it' Johnson.

I can't believe that he just let the Lions coaching staff slap him in the face. What kind of WR agrees with his own coaching staff that he's been neutralized by another team's game plan? They flat out slapped him in the face and said you are not good enough to catch the ball if the other team puts bracket coverage on you.
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He has no fire in his belly. Dez Bryant would have killed his entire coaching staff if he were ignored in the passing game.

 
Good 'ole week 1 overreactions, I've missed you this past year.

Coaches have a way of getting someone the ball the week after they field 546 questions after a loss about not getting said player the ball.

 
Skoo said:
Good 'ole week 1 overreactions, I've missed you this past year.

Coaches have a way of getting someone the ball the week after they field 546 questions after a loss about not getting said player the ball.
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Coaches that aren't walking around in a coma like Jim Caldwell. I do expect a ton of Calvin targets this week but that is beside the point. Their statements told the rest of the league that they are ####### and are dictated by the team they play against. Translation: 'Teams punch us in the mouth and we don't do anything about it'.

 
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lod01 said:
Skoo said:
Good 'ole week 1 overreactions, I've missed you this past year.

Coaches have a way of getting someone the ball the week after they field 546 questions after a loss about not getting said player the ball.
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Coaches that aren't walking around in a coma like Jim Caldwell. I do expect a ton of Calvin targets this week but that is beside the point. Their statements told the rest of the league that they are ####### and are dictated by the team they play against. Translation: 'Teams punch us in the mouth and we don't do anything about it'.
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Not saying Caldwell is a good coach, but doesn't every team basically "take what the defense gives them"?

On MNF, the Falcons' secondary was not letting anything get past them. So in the 2nd half the Eagles switched to dink-and-dunk mode and moved the ball down the field with ease. That's taking what the defense gives you.

There's no excuse for not looking his way more often, especially when playing from behind in a shootout. That said I can see why they don't want their offense revolving around forcing it to CJ all day. Was great for us fantasy owners but not great for their win-loss column.

 
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Skoo said:
lod01 said:
Skoo said:
Good 'ole week 1 overreactions, I've missed you this past year.

Coaches have a way of getting someone the ball the week after they field 546 questions after a loss about not getting said player the ball.
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Coaches that aren't walking around in a coma like Jim Caldwell. I do expect a ton of Calvin targets this week but that is beside the point. Their statements told the rest of the league that they are ####### and are dictated by the team they play against. Translation: 'Teams punch us in the mouth and we don't do anything about it'.
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Not saying Caldwell is a good coach, but doesn't every team basically "take what the defense gives them"?

On MNF, the Falcons' secondary was not letting anything get past them. So in the 2nd half the Eagles switched to dink-and-dunk mode and moved the ball down the field with ease. That's taking what the defense gives you.

There's no excuse for not looking his way more often, especially when playing from behind in a shootout. That said I can see why they don't want their offense revolving around forcing it to CJ all day. Was great for us fantasy owners but not great for their win-loss column.
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You don't come out and say it. It shows weakness. You do something about it. They just got punched in the face and did nothing about it. You take what the D gives you when it's working. It wasn't working. It didn't work and they flat out lost because they 'took what the D was giving them.' It's a loser philosophy.

 
Calvin never airs his laundry to the media but he does not usually get ignored two games in a row, not if healthy anyway. Steady dose of CJ coming this weekend, buy now if you can get him under where he was drafted originally. Sheesh he's healthy so far and the offense will be improved once the OL heals up.

 
The Lions ran 47 offensive snaps this weekend. That was the lowest in the league.

Given that they were 'taking what the D gave them' and lost, I strongly suspect we'll see an adjustment this weekend.

 
The hiring of caldwell harkens back to the days when old man ford would do things deliberately to sabotage the team. Easily the worst coach in the league.

 
ghostguy123 said:
Did someone just say Calvin can't get a future 1st in trade right now?

Jesus
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I just got offered a 1st for Calvin and turned it down instantly. People may be tossing out offers after the bad week, but hard to imagine someone actively shopping Calvin and not being able to get at least a 1st.

 
ghostguy123 said:
Did someone just say Calvin can't get a future 1st in trade right now?

Jesus
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No, some one said this...

Milkman said:
Well if he misses another 3-4 games with an injury it will be tough to even get a 1st for him. I'd sell him if you aren't in the running this year for as much as I could get.
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...which may not necessarily be true either but an injury would surely submarine his value.

With that said I own him in two leagues and I'm probably going down with the ship even if I have a losing season in one of them. His true value was much higher than his perceived value even before this season started - now that he's going to hit 30 (oh my god) next week things will start getting real stupid.

 
Ditka Butkus said:
lod01 said:
Calvin 'Don't give me the damn ball, I'm OK with it' Johnson.

I can't believe that he just let the Lions coaching staff slap him in the face. What kind of WR agrees with his own coaching staff that he's been neutralized by another team's game plan? They flat out slapped him in the face and said you are not good enough to catch the ball if the other team puts bracket coverage on you.
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He has no fire in his belly. Dez Bryant would have killed his entire coaching staff if he were ignored in the passing game.
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You do realize that there are other ways of letting the coaching staff know you want to be involved other than #####ing to the media or loudly pouting on the sidelines, right?

 
Some thing to consider too is this:

if the Lions truly are taking what the defense is giving them, then it is the job of the Lions coaching staff to design and call plays that get a beast like Megatron open. If they can't do that, they are offensively inept in multiple ways.

 
Ghost Rider said:
Some thing to consider too is this:

if the Lions truly are taking what the defense is giving them, then it is the job of the Lions coaching staff to design and call plays that get a beast like Megatron open. If they can't do that, they are offensively inept in multiple ways.
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The announcers during the game were saying Lomardi told them that he cant get away from taking shots down the field and playing small ball but thats exactly what he did. During the second half when the Lions were up they were pressing Calvin at the line and Weddle was playing over the top coverage. They were playing off the other receivers. Not once did the Lions run a inside slant to Calvin. Allen was running drag routes all game long. Something I dont think Tate or Calvin did all game long.

Seemed the fell in love with the screen (to Tate) or RB pass in the flat.

When you have a QB who is not rock solid and an Offensive cord who seems confused at times. You wonder why your offense sputters a lot.

 
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Seekay said:
Ghost Rider said:
Some thing to consider too is this:

if the Lions truly are taking what the defense is giving them, then it is the job of the Lions coaching staff to design and call plays that get a beast like Megatron open. If they can't do that, they are offensively inept in multiple ways.
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The announcers during the game were saying Lomardi told them that he cant get away from taking shots down the field and playing small ball but thats exactly what he did. During the second half when the Lions were up they were pressing Calvin at the line and Weddle was playing over the top coverage. They were playing off the other receivers. Not once did the Lions run a inside slant to Calvin. Allen was running drag routes all game long. Something I dont think Tate or Calvin did all game long.

Seemed the fell in love with the screen (to Tate) or RB pass in the flat.

When you have a QB who is not rock solid and an Offensive cord who seems confused at times. You wonder why your offense sputters a lot.
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They never run this play for Calvin or anyone receiver. I think it is for a couple of reasons, A. Stafford isn't very accurate and B. a bad slant throw means 1 of 2 things happen usually. It gets picked or it gets a wide receiver killed. I don't remember if it was when Calvin first got hurt last year and they used him as a decoy for a couple of games or when he got hurt playing the decoy and actually had to miss games, but it was on a poorly thrown slant by Stafford.

 
So 8-10 a catch, no deep routes, and not being used frequently in 1-1 coverage is the norm, tough break here, this sucks!

I hope that entire organization goes bankrupt and they're forced to play in the Silverdome in its current state.

 
fantasycurse42 said:
So 8-10 a catch, no deep routes, and not being used frequently in 1-1 coverage is the norm, tough break here, this sucks!

I hope that entire organization goes bankrupt and they're forced to play in the Silverdome in its current state.
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As bad as this team looks they been worse in the last 10 years. They didnt go bankrupt then. The bar has always been low for this franchise.

 
0 catches on that last drive. On a couple plays, he barely even broke off the line of scrimmage on the snap. He knows what Stafford is and I now know that Calvin is a middling wr2. I would trade for a Landry and upgrade at rb.

 
tankfrank11 said:
0 catches on that last drive. On a couple plays, he barely even broke off the line of scrimmage on the snap. He knows what Stafford is and I now know that Calvin is a middling wr2. I would trade for a Landry and upgrade at rb.
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Probably feels like Barry Sanders right about now.

 
he's gonna get shut down again next monday night.

there's a decent chance he's just a guy fantasy-wise all season. it sure has the feel of that. they dgaf to force him the ball, and somehow they don't bother to take shots deep with him anymore.

colts should cut andre and trade for him. they've proven that they aren't afraid to make a big in-season trade.

 
tankfrank11 said:
0 catches on that last drive. On a couple plays, he barely even broke off the line of scrimmage on the snap. He knows what Stafford is and I now know that Calvin is a middling wr2. I would trade for a Landry and upgrade at rb.
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It was a pointless drive where the Lions were down 2 scores. All coverage was 15 yds of the ball with either safety help or a linebacker rolling to Calvin. I realize it hurts for fantasy value, but there was no point to forcing it to him. I don't think Stafford had the time to be able to throw beyond 15 yds. The DN pass rush is ridiculous.

As for the secondary, the broadcast showed the stats last night for Talib/Harris. Those two have given up something like 4 TD's in ALL of 2014 and the 3 games this year. I'd say 80 yds is a decent day against that defense.

 
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chad in Indy said:
tankfrank11 said:
0 catches on that last drive. On a couple plays, he barely even broke off the line of scrimmage on the snap. He knows what Stafford is and I now know that Calvin is a middling wr2. I would trade for a Landry and upgrade at rb.
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As for the secondary, the broadcast showed the stats last night for Talib/Harris. Those two have given up something like 4 TD's in ALL of 2014 and the 3 games this year. I'd say 80 yds is a decent day against that defense.
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true, but then you throw in the 1st 2 games...he has 1 td and has yet to break 100 yds receiving. doesn't smell right, if you ask me.

somebody said before the season, "either you have calvin ranked as your #1 wr, or you should avoid him". i think that was pretty sage analysis.

 
chad in Indy said:
I realize it hurts for fantasy value, but there was no point to forcing it to him. I don't think Stafford had the time to be able to throw beyond 15 yds. The DN pass rush is ridiculous.
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This is the real reason the Lions don't throw deep to Calvin. Their offensive line is awful. They can try to call deep passes all they want, but they end up with Stafford either taking a sack or being forced to dump it off.

Until/unless the line improves, not much will change.

 
He throws up 8/77, 16 points in PPR, against Talib, and we are complaining? It's going to be like this all year?

What is wrong with you people?

P.S. He almost had a TD that Talib had to PI on....

 
The time to sell him for the most value was after the Monday game against the Giants last season, you could still get very good value after he came back from the injury and put up some nice games if your deadline hadn't passed. Selling him now isn't ideal, the seller is going to get wr2 value right now, Calvin is 30, the team looks terrible and not even terrible in a good way where they will be down so much they will rack up garbage time points and Stafford looks like he has regressed a lot.

If I owned Calvin in any dynasty I would ride it out unless I could get wr1 price for him and I just don't think any good owner will give you that. You might be able to get that if you get closer to the deadline and someone really needs the push to get over the top or in the playoffs, but your best bet might be in a year or so if he leaves and goes to a great landing spot, or if Stafford leaves and the Lions get a new quarterback.

 
Value is plummeting. If you didn't sell last year you can't sell now. He's still a solid WR2 with good upside.

 
CalBear said:
Calvin is two years younger than Larry Fitzgerald. And better.
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Yeah, let's not act like this is necessarily the new norm. Steve Smith blew up last year for a stretch and this year before injury at 36 years old. Calvin has lots of time left to be a WR1, just not a sexy one. If you still own, hold.
 
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