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Is rock dead? (2 Viewers)

Herb said:
Mumford has gotten a lot of grief in here, but their last two albums have moved away from the banjo stuff and veered into solid rock territory.  Their Wilder Mind album was spectacular. Iron Maiden, Sleater Kinney, Kings of Leon, Social Distortion, Alice freakin' Cooper(!) et al have all put out kick ### records in the last couple years. The National, Japandroids, The Interrupters, Sheer Mag, Against Me!, Volbeat, St. Vincent, Nathaniel Rateliff and the Nightsweats, etc etc are all holding high the banner of rock and waving the #### out of it.
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I've seen a few people say this about Mumford.  I was a big fan and have every album they have put out and seen them in concert twice.  I liked Wilder Mind but this last album seems like trash (I've only given it 2-3 listens) and not solid rock territory at all.  

I don't believe Social Distortion has put out an album in years, other than releasing some old early 80s material. big fan of Volbeat and Nathaniel Rateliff  :thumbup:

 
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stlrams said:
Looks like we're left listening to 80's music for the rest of our lives...
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No problem for me.  All I listen to is music from the 70s, 80s and 90s.  Three incredible decades of music.  I have those stations on XM programmed in my car, along with Classic Rewind, Classic Vinyl and Ozzy's Boneyard.

I have no clue to what kids are listening to these days......nor do I care. 

 
Elvis CHANGED THE WORLD. Little Richard CHANGED THE WORLD. Beatles CHANGED THE WORLD. Stones CHANGED THE WORLD. Hendrix CHANGED THE WORLD. Sabbath CHANGED THE WORLD. Bowie CHANGED THE WORLD. Prince CHANGED THE WORLD. U2 CHANGED THE WORLD. Metallica CHANGED THE WORLD. Public Enemy CHANGED THE WORLD. Nirvana CHANGED THE WORLD. Modest Mice AIN'T GONNA CHANGE THE WORLD. Mumfords AIN'T GONNA CHANGE THE WORLD. Neither Swans, Elephants, Impalas, Monsters nor Men are CHANGING THE WORLD. They aint even trying. nufced

 
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jomar said:
I've seen a few people say this about Mumford.  I was a big fan and have every album they have put out and seen them in concert twice.  I liked Wilder Mind but this last album seems like trash (I've only given it 2-3 listens) and not solid rock territory at all.  

I don't believe Social Distortion has put out an album in years, other than releasing some old early 80s material. big fan of Volbeat and Nathaniel Rateliff  :thumbup:
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Yup. My bad. Social D's last record was 2011. I just started listening to it in the last few months, so I thought it was newer than that. But whatever. Should have mentioned the Cult also, as they put out a good new album in 2016.

Saw Shuke mention Tame Impala.  Like them quite a bit as well. If you expand into less of a guitar-rock, indie type territory, Band of Horses, Courtney Barnett and Milky Chance are all good, and while they're probably more pop than rock, Chvrches has blown my doors off with every one of their albums.

 
Changing the world has never been the argument for living, and it's often been one for unwarranted grandiosity.  

 
fightingillini said:
No problem for me.  All I listen to is music from the 70s, 80s and 90s.  Three incredible decades of music.  I have those stations on XM programmed in my car, along with Classic Rewind, Classic Vinyl and Ozzy's Boneyard.

I have no clue to what kids are listening to these days......nor do I care. 
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Jesus man, aren't you BORED? Check out Little Steven's Underground Garage. Thank me later.

 
wikkidpissah said:
Modest Mice AIN'T GONNA CHANGE THE WORLD. Mumfords AIN'T GONNA CHANGE THE WORLD. Neither Swans, Elephants, Impalas, Monsters nor Men are CHANGING THE WORLD. They aint even trying.
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I'll avoid any old guy jokes at your expense. After all, I'm old as well.

But there are problems with your statements. How are you able to calibrate someone's effort to try to change the world? I don't make statements about artists with no insight into their process or their motives.You said that Metallica changed the world. I mean, that was four drunk guys earning cash to buy more crank.

 
wikkidpissah said:
Yer gettin lazy, dood. Specious, even. Change is the only mandate of life.
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Or stoicism. There are two schools of Greek philosophy about 600 B.C. that are having the exact argument we're having now, about change as the impetus for life or constancy as the impetus. I forget who they were.

That's not specious, that's fact. 

And most of those bands did change the world in some small way. They didn't have the distribution nor outlet with which to change the world. Everything is now decentralized to the point -- and we've talked about this -- that you can't have the impact that people have had prior. We 1000 channels on television now. We used to have three. We can watch whatever we want, listen to whatever we want, emulate whatever we want in entertainment now. 

Nobody listens to the radio. There is no MTV as cultural touchstone.

Even musical movements are fragmented into so many categories it's like I laugh when I hear a new one. 

It's not the spirit, it's the distribution and consumption patterns. They're so individual.  It would take something really, really out of left field to be such a.unifying force. It'd also have to be politically savvy. It's incredible -- the odds of doing this. Impossible, no. But name another genre of music changing the world. Pop. Dance. EDM. 

No. Rock's not dead or everything is by the change standard. 

That's just my two cents. 

And I take your point. Those were big, huge, cultural touchstone rock bands. 

But name me a pop star that has changed the world recently.

 
shuke said:
I'm not the hippest guy when it comes to new music, but just thinking off the top of my head, how much have you listened to any of the following:

Tame Impala
Spoon
Carseat Headrest
Drive By Truckers
Silversun Pickups
Cage the Elephant
Modest Mouse
 

These are bands that have a sound you may be looking for.  I could list dozens more that I like but may not fit in the sub-genre you're looking for.
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These are all solid bands, I have heard all but one.  Spoon and Modest Mouse being my favorites as I've seen both live.  But frankly I don't believe any of them  compare with the greats of the 70s/80s/90s and popular consensus would back that up and I would guess crtiics consensus as well.

I'm not trying to be difficult here but I just don't think there's much that stands out post 2000.   Foster the People and MGMT had epic albums but they aren't what I'd classify as rock.

 
jdoggydogg said:
I'll avoid any old guy jokes at your expense. After all, I'm old as well.

But there are problems with your statements. How are you able to calibrate someone's effort to try to change the world? I don't make statements about artists with no insight into their process or their motives.You said that Metallica changed the world. I mean, that was four drunk guys earning cash to buy more crank.
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true.

and in doing so, pioneered Thrash metal (without the benefit of radio airplay or MTV....at least until "One" got released).

 
TripItUp said:
These are all solid bands, I have heard all but one.  Spoon and Modest Mouse being my favorites as I've seen both live.  But frankly I don't believe any of them  compare with the greats of the 70s/80s/90s and popular consensus would back that up and I would guess crtiics consensus as well.

I'm not trying to be difficult here but I just don't think there's much that stands out post 2000.   Foster the People and MGMT had epic albums but they aren't what I'd classify as rock.
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DbT had a pretty good run in the '00s:

Southern Rock Opera - 2001
Decoration Day - 2003
The Dirty South - 2004
A Blessing and a Curse - 2006
Brighter Than Creation's Dark - 2008
The Big To-Do - 2010
 

 
pecorino said:
Don't know if you are prepared for this, but here is Chalk Dust circa 2018: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_DRImik3MBo

The tempo might be a bit slower but the band has aged well in my opinion.
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I think the key word here is "aged". Songs in the genre from quarter a century ago isn't a testament to what's going on today even if it's still be played today. Somewhere, out there, an orchestra's belting out Beethoven's 5th. It doesn't mean that classical music is what it was 200 years ago

 
Epic Problem said:
I think the key word here is "aged". Songs in the genre from quarter a century ago isn't a testament to what's going on today even if it's still be played today. Somewhere, out there, an orchestra's belting out Beethoven's 5th. It doesn't mean that classical music is what it was 200 years ago
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Two salient points: 1) the band may have written that song decades ago but it has evolved over time and constantly becomes something new. It's actually a rare opportunity for fans to be able to witness the creative process over that time span and can follow the growth (or death) of a rock song as the band reinterprets it. 2) new music is still being created by bands like Phish (and I'll link to some others, too, to bolster my point) as the song More was offered to represent their latest album Big Boat.

Other exhibit: Umphree's McGee: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qh3DDF4c9eU

More to come when I get a chance.

 
jdoggydogg said:
I'll avoid any old guy jokes at your expense. After all, I'm old as well.

But there are problems with your statements. How are you able to calibrate someone's effort to try to change the world? I don't make statements about artists with no insight into their process or their motives.You said that Metallica changed the world. I mean, that was four drunk guys earning cash to buy more crank.
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Not gonna waste a lot of time defending a band i dont even like, and was the last i included (and only did so to underline Sabbath as an ungreat band with great impact).

I was working on an adolescent psych unit when the first two Metallicas came out and you could just see a headbanging mindset that had nothing to do with hairbands but, instead, the energy of hyperactive, bi-polar, attention-deficit, borderline & obsessive-compulsive disorders of latchkey kids coalesce around the unprecedented force Metallica was putting across. Created an entire class of humans, like it or not.

 
rockaction said:
Or stoicism. There are two schools of Greek philosophy about 600 B.C. that are having the exact argument we're having now, about change as the impetus for life or constancy as the impetus. I forget who they were.

That's not specious, that's fact. 

And most of those bands did change the world in some small way. They didn't have the distribution nor outlet with which to change the world. Everything is now decentralized to the point -- and we've talked about this -- that you can't have the impact that people have had prior. We 1000 channels on television now. We used to have three. We can watch whatever we want, listen to whatever we want, emulate whatever we want in entertainment now. 

Nobody listens to the radio. There is no MTV as cultural touchstone.

Even musical movements are fragmented into so many categories it's like I laugh when I hear a new one. 

It's not the spirit, it's the distribution and consumption patterns. They're so individual.  It would take something really, really out of left field to be such a.unifying force. It'd also have to be politically savvy. It's incredible -- the odds of doing this. Impossible, no. But name another genre of music changing the world. Pop. Dance. EDM. 

No. Rock's not dead or everything is by the change standard. 

That's just my two cents. 

And I take your point. Those were big, huge, cultural touchstone rock bands. 

But name me a pop star that has changed the world recently.
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i knew i could unlazy you....

but i'll insist that change (as a function separate from day2day survival) is the only mandate of life, of which human life is only a part. the rest are constructs, methods to achieve change/stasis, manage the chaos/order/chaos channel we all blow thru

 
wikkidpissah said:
Not gonna waste a lot of time defending a band i dont even like, and was the last i included (and only did so to underline Sabbath as an ungreat band with great impact).

I was working on an adolescent psych unit when the first two Metallicas came out and you could just see a headbanging mindset that had nothing to do with hairbands but, instead, the energy of hyperactive, bi-polar, attention-deficit, borderline & obsessive-compulsive disorders of latchkey kids coalesce around the unprecedented force Metallica was putting across. Created an entire class of humans, like it or not.
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Are you saying, because I don't want to misrepresent you, that modern rock bands are rubbish and have no lasting impact on future culture?

 
jdoggydogg said:
Are you saying, because I don't want to misrepresent you, that modern rock bands are rubbish and have no lasting impact on future culture?
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Not rubbish, just not stimulating enough to have the arching cultural impact they used to. Twas an artist/audience symbiosis which fed the awesome strain.

As member of the first generation free to do so, I learned how to consider life & love from cultural touchpoints. Artists in film & sound filled that new sphere in glorious fashion and we urged them on with equal vigor. Whether distracted, lost, apathetic, or merely commercialized, that is no longer the case.

Since the world is falling down, i hope artists will and urge artists to enter the breach and show the world for what suckers they're being played and show the way for customers to become citizens again. Art has been the vanguard of change before and is probably it's greatest purpose, although prayer and not purpose is its point.

 
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AhrnCityPahnder said:
Some hacky journalist/critic declares ROCK IS DEAD every 6 or 7 years.   It wasn't true the past 5 times they declared it so.  It isn't true now.
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This is what I've been trying to get across this whole thread. They keep predicting it's dead, it's usually journalists and critics, and they're always wrong.  

 
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jvdesigns2002 said:
I don't believe that it is dead--but music in general is facing some really large challenges.  I was listening to an interview with the members of "Muse" not super long ago--and they were talking about how the music industry is one of the industries that has been hit the hardest by the advancement of automation.  In the past a musician would have to spend years/decades mastering an instrument or craft to develop a sound. Vocalists would have to practice hard and hire coaches to get their voices to achieve sounds that they wanted to get to in certain songs.  Musicians would have to practice for endless hours in order to make sure that the music they produced sounded good when they were actually performing live.  Nowadays--you can have a teenager that has no idea how to play any musical instrument make music and market it to millions of people through their ipad.  Artists are filling arenas with basically ipads/tablets in front of them.  Don't get me wrong--there will always be musical purists that won't buy into this new wave of musical automation--but finding those real musician purists will require some effort and digging for.  
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But at the same time these musicians can have way more control over their music. N o more need for monolithic record companies to control your music. You can have your own website under your own terms.

And I don't even want to get into how many artists were screwed over under the old way of doing things.

 
Tell me what the popular rock bands are. I will ask my high school kids if they know who it is. 

 
Ilov80s said:
Tell me what the popular rock bands are. I will ask my high school kids if they know who it is. 
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That's the thing. You just called them pop bands. It's not a semantic argument, either. It's a fundamental flaw in your premise. They're rock bands, not pop ones. Your kids might all be into hip hop and EDM and other stuff. 

I wouldn't just go off of anecdotal evidence.  

 
rockaction said:
That's the thing. You just called them pop bands. It's not a semantic argument, either. It's a fundamental flaw in your premise. They're rock bands, not pop ones. Your kids might all be into hip hop and EDM and other stuff. 

I wouldn't just go off of anecdotal evidence.  
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Isn't it the exact premise of the thread? 

 
Ilov80s said:
Isn't it the exact premise of the thread? 
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No, it's not. It's your kids at your school, which I

  • Don't know where it is but sounds like Detroit area
  • Don't know its demographics
  • Don't know the ages of the kids
  • Don't know what they listen to
We've had this argument before, I think. Pop and New Wave and synth pop were huge in the eighties, they were writing rock off, and bam! Thrash and hair metal. They were writing it off after 1997 and rave culture and big beat and bam! '98-02 happened.  They were writing it off always - it was a fad in the fifties - psychedelia and folk had killed it in the mid-60s.  it's always...

wrong. 

 
Ask them if they know who Imagine Dragons and Twenty-One Pilots are

Tegan and Sara

The 1975

Jack White or the White Stripes

Better yet, ask them each if they like rock n' roll and to name a band they like.  

 
Ask them if they like Nirvana. Smashing Pumpkins. All I see around here are sixteen year olds with Nirvana and Thrasher shirts. That's their retro. My youth. It's funny in a way

Greta Van Vleet. Foster The Band. Panic! At The Disco. Joyce Manor. La Dispute. Touche Amore. They might surprise you. Anyway, I'm Hippling the thread here. I'll let you respond.  

 
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Leroy Hoard said:
But at the same time these musicians can have way more control over their music. N o more need for monolithic record companies to control your music. You can have your own website under your own terms.

And I don't even want to get into how many artists were screwed over under the old way of doing things.
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Oh--I don't doubt that.  I was just commenting on one of the reasons why a certain genre of music seems to be fading into the background quoting actual rock musicians (the guys from Muse were saying this).   In reality--actual musicians could execute the same current avenues that you are mentioning and benefit from it--but the fact of the matter is that most young kids would rather spend 6 months getting really good at an app and becoming rich and famous than they would spend 20 years mastering a musical instrument to do so.  The masses are okay with a computer generating a sound versus somebody learning how to create it naturally.   The incentive to become a really good "pure musician" has just deteriorated with the advent of programs that can fabricate/synthesize any voice/sound you want.  

 
Ilov80s said:
Tell me what the popular rock bands are. I will ask my high school kids if they know who it is. 
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Top 21 Rock Acts in the U.S. on Spotify

1. Twenty One Pilots
2. Imagine Dragons
3. Coldplay
4. Panic! At The Disco
5. The Beatles
6. Fall Out Boy
7. Red Hot Chili Peppers
8. Linkin Park
9. Blink-182
10. Metallica
11. Green Day
12. The 1975
13. Paramore
14. Five Finger Death Punch
15. Queen
16. Led Zeppelin
17. AC/DC
18. Pink Floyd
19. Arctic Monkeys
20. Mumford & Sons
21. Three Days Grace

List is a year old, but whatever...

 
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jamny said:
You ever see those videos where they play classic rock bands to kids to get their reaction?

The one with Zeppelin had this older kid, probably 15 or so, long hair, looked to be kind of a rocker. He hated it and flat out said he doesn't like anything with instruments. Thinks it all sounds old. Kinda blew me away. Never really thought it had come to instruments themselves being old.
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This kid needs to get off my lawn.

 
Uruk-Hai said:
No, it didn't. 
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There were critics that said that it was in '76-'78. I know there was the famous Disco Demolition Night at Comiskey Park, but there was a lot of noise about disco killing rock from certain circles, especially in 1978. The same critics announcing rock's death now. 

Namely America's white male rock faithful who sat fuming on the sidelines as Led Zep and Black Sabbath were elbowed off the radio by the likes of Chic and the Bee Gees. The Disco Demolition Night at Comiskey Park in Chicago in the summer of 1979 clearly had more to it than a gnawing distaste for KC & The Sunshine Band. The mass detonation of piles of vinyl on a baseball field -  The Guardian

 
jamny said:
Obviously there will always be bands playing in garages and clubs but will it ever have mainstream appeal again?

Has it gone the way of jazz and will only be a niche genre of music?
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I'm not sure what mainstream is anymore. Media - like what you listen to music on - is limitless now. I don't know what the stats are who listens to what on what. I jammed out to Lil Richard on the way to work today, totally jump started my day and put me in a fu mood. If I want rock I can have rock. So can everybody.

 
rockaction said:
No, it's not. It's your kids at your school, which I

  • Don't know where it is but sounds like Detroit area
  • Don't know its demographics
  • Don't know the ages of the kids
  • Don't know what they listen to
We've had this argument before, I think. Pop and New Wave and synth pop were huge in the eighties, they were writing rock off, and bam! Thrash and hair metal. They were writing it off after 1997 and rave culture and big beat and bam! '98-02 happened.  They were writing it off always - it was a fad in the fifties - psychedelia and folk had killed it in the mid-60s.  it's always...

wrong. 
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Well the op said mainstream so I’m thinking if rock music is mainstream then lots of kids will know the big bands. 

rockaction said:
Ask them if they know who Imagine Dragons and Twenty-One Pilots are

Tegan and Sara

The 1975

Jack White or the White Stripes

Better yet, ask them each if they like rock n' roll and to name a band they like.  
Click to expand...
For sure they know Imagine Dragons. For sure 21 Pilots but I’m not sure that is rock. I’ll be shocked if they know those other acts.

 
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