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It's been a great run Peyton - now enjoy retirement.. (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Judge Smails
- Start date
Insein
Footballguy
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
nothing to do with himUncle Leo said:
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Insoxicated
And we do realize this is a FANTASY football forum, right?Uncle Leo said:
Peyton is currently QB25, scoring less than half as many points as the QB1s in the league. Tyrod Taylor is outscoring him by double-digit points every week. He's not startable in start 1 QB fantasy formats.
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Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
FUBAR
Footballguy
Sure it does. It's just not him putting the team on his back. He's still one of the best in the league, for what really matters.
Buffaloes
Footballguy
the Broncos will not bench Manning regardless....and they shouldn't at this point. but there's no way to know the bolded is true. Denver has been getting bottom-of-the-league production from its O in large part to poor QB play that seems to have carried over from last season.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
the defense is the prime reason, plus an easy schedule, combined record of teams they played 6-18.
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
He's thrown more INTs than TDs.
His YPA is 28th in the NFL.
He is 30th in passer rating.
He is 22nd in QBR.
Peyton is no longer a top NFL QB; he is not even a top 10 NFL QB anymore.
Insein
Footballguy
Packaged him. May regret what I gave up but had to do something.
Peyton, Demarco, Hankerson, Desean
For
Rivers, Yeldon, J Matthews
I honestly don't know Demarco's carries going forward. He could get 20 a game from here on out or he could get 5. The other two I figured dime a dozen.
Peyton, Demarco, Hankerson, Desean
For
Rivers, Yeldon, J Matthews
I honestly don't know Demarco's carries going forward. He could get 20 a game from here on out or he could get 5. The other two I figured dime a dozen.
PatsWillWin
Footballguy
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Ditka Butkus
Footballguy
This...His pride won't let him see and acknowledge what everybody else sees..... Denver is winning in spite of manning.
DocHolliday
Footballguy
It is amazing how weak his arm is. Shame to watch one of the all time greats look so average so fast. There is just nothing on his passes. If the Broncos do not get their running game going, they will lose games. The Denver D is fantastic but it cannot bail Manning out every week. Not going to happen.
I was able to get both Bortles and McCown off of waivers. And I'm EXCITED about it. What the hell is happening?
I'll try and trade Peyton for depth at another position, otherwise I may just cut him. I think that defense may get him some short fields where he can cobble together some 2-3 TD games, but I really don't want to watch him anymore.
I'll try and trade Peyton for depth at another position, otherwise I may just cut him. I think that defense may get him some short fields where he can cobble together some 2-3 TD games, but I really don't want to watch him anymore.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
I'm guessing that Broncos fans wish he looked average. I hate to say it, as he is one of the all-time greats and I've enjoyed watching him play over the years but he's trending towards being below average quickly. He's starting to make what could/should be costly mistakes and not contributing enough otherwise. He's also been lucky a few times that the defensive backs that jumped his routes couldn't hold onto the ball or some would have been pick sixes.
I don't see that arm getting any better as the weather gets worse and it gains more wear and tear on it.
msudaisy26
Footballguy
It is horrible because Peyton is a top 5 quarterback of all time, but he isn't even a top 15 quarterback in the league anymore. There are at least 15 quarterbacks that would have this team 5 - 0 and put up more offensive points than he did. I hope he retires after this year, because even though I have always been a Brady over Manning backer, I want to remember him as an all time great, not a guy that is being dragged to the playoffs by the rest of his team. I hope guys like Brady, Rodgers, Luck, Brees are all taking notes on this and call it quits before they look like this. We have had a golden age of quarterback play and I want to remember it that way.
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ShamrockPride
Footballguy
You're all looking at pure stats or real life? He may suck physically now, but his smarts are what still make him a top 8 QB...again, in real life. Tyrod or whoever else can easily outscore him every week in stats. In a real game, I still want Peyton before 3/4 of the league. Dude can diagnose a defense before the snap. Only like 5 other QBs can do that. Even if he can't get the ball where it needs to a lot of the time anymore, with his defense leading the way, I'll take my chances with the 17-24 (real) points he can put up each week. Sure, fantasy is a different story and at this point, you'd be wise to stay away.
shadyridr
Footballguy
he has 6 tds to 7 ints and a 77 rating. He is hurting the offense more then helping it.
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Real life.
Have you watched him play this season? Yes, he can still diagnose a defense as good as anyone, but he physically cannot do it anymore.
ShamrockPride
Footballguy
I would say he can't do it consistently anymore. He's still made a handful of classic Peyton throws this season. He doesn't need to put up 30 a game anymore. I think he is inconsistent but not completely out of it. He still shows just enough when he needs to.
msudaisy26
Footballguy
His smarts are the only thing that is keeping him in the league. What does it matter if he is making the right reads, but physically can't get the ball where it needs to go?
shadyridr
Footballguy
does he need to throw picks? This makes no sense. He's been just as bad in real life as he is in fantasy. He's probably a bottom 5 qb in real life right now.
Gottabesweet
Footballguy
I turned down
Eli or Dalton and Harvin
For Peyron/ARob
White side do you like?
Eli or Dalton and Harvin
For Peyron/ARob
White side do you like?
moleculo
Footballguy
I understand this is probably an unpopular opinion, but maybe it's a bit early to be throwing dirt on his grave. Consider the situation:
Personally, I expected the running game to be much more potent. That would take a lot of pressure off of Manning, but so far he has been un-able to hit anything deep which would open things up.
Now, I do blame the lack of running game on Manning directly. I think that his insistence of playing from the 'gun hurts the ZBS and stretch play that Kubes wants, it gums up the timing and takes the FB off of the field. I think that Mannings incompatability with a running game goes back at least a decade...look at the stats, Manning hasn't had a real good running thread since Edge left town. That, despite the fact that defenses should be leaving favorable box counts to run against.
That being said, if Manning has anything left, he will have a chance to show it. The OL will eventually gel. Players will start running good routes (Owen Daniels, I'm looking at you). Kubiak will do a better job of adjusting, the Backs will get in sync with the line, and things will improve. If that's in time to save your FF season, I have no idea but things will trend up.
This is an important game vs Cleveland. The Browns have a bad defense, and Haden is doubtful. This is the week to get it all together. If they can't break out this week, might as well stick a fork in them. If you are holding, keep holding for another week. If Manning is on the WW, get him and see what happens. This could be the week that things get turned around.
- New offense, including a head coach who, for the first time in Mannings career, has a strong track record of offense success with a particular system (i.e. 2 SB titles in Denver, big rushing seasons from previously unknowns like Terrell Davis, Mike Anderson, Reuben Droughns, Orlandis Gary, Arian Foster, and Justin Forsett)
- Lost security blanket TE - Julius Thomas.
- Lost Wes Welker
- offensive line: 4 of 5 new players, including two first year starters (one at LT)
- compounding the OL issues, they were down a starter last week, which just shuffles the suck around even more.
Personally, I expected the running game to be much more potent. That would take a lot of pressure off of Manning, but so far he has been un-able to hit anything deep which would open things up.
Now, I do blame the lack of running game on Manning directly. I think that his insistence of playing from the 'gun hurts the ZBS and stretch play that Kubes wants, it gums up the timing and takes the FB off of the field. I think that Mannings incompatability with a running game goes back at least a decade...look at the stats, Manning hasn't had a real good running thread since Edge left town. That, despite the fact that defenses should be leaving favorable box counts to run against.
That being said, if Manning has anything left, he will have a chance to show it. The OL will eventually gel. Players will start running good routes (Owen Daniels, I'm looking at you). Kubiak will do a better job of adjusting, the Backs will get in sync with the line, and things will improve. If that's in time to save your FF season, I have no idea but things will trend up.
This is an important game vs Cleveland. The Browns have a bad defense, and Haden is doubtful. This is the week to get it all together. If they can't break out this week, might as well stick a fork in them. If you are holding, keep holding for another week. If Manning is on the WW, get him and see what happens. This could be the week that things get turned around.
OU#1
Footballguy
Last week was the week too. Weak OAK D. Worst against TE's and Daniels got a goosegg. Did you watch the game? Easily two more picks were left on the field, maybe one for a Pick 6.
I'm not buying into "this is the week" BS. If he does good, good on him. That will justify somebody else starting him later when he throws up another dud.
Like I said above, your best offense as a Manning owner is to cut him and let your opposition chase points.
Signed,
-Salty Ex-Manning owner
I'm not buying into "this is the week" BS. If he does good, good on him. That will justify somebody else starting him later when he throws up another dud.
Like I said above, your best offense as a Manning owner is to cut him and let your opposition chase points.
Signed,
-Salty Ex-Manning owner
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
If his body isn't cooperating with his brain, it doesn't matter how smart he is. I was talking real football in my last post, not fantasy. He's making some terrible terrible throws.ShamrockPride said:
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
Yeah I'm not sure what good "diagnosing a defense" does if you still end up throwing an INT because the ball fluttered in the air, even if it was technically the right read.
Peyton has thrown the second most INTs in the league and it's not like he's backing it up with production on the other end. Nor is he "diagnosing the defense" in such a manner as to open up the running game with well timed audibles.
Peyton's brain paired with average arm talent would still be a very good QB. But Peyton right now is so far below average arm talent it's not even comparable. I can't say that I've ever seen a QB in the NFL who, physically, just couldn't get the ball moving through the air like this.
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Shutout
Footballguy
Yes, and the "mind" is probably working against him here too. He is such a cerebral player that HE KNOWS what his limitations are.
Every pass we see thrown in a game has probably been practiced 100 times during the week. He knows where his limitations are at this point and he might be overcompensating as his brain is trying to find the offset for the things he knows his body can not do and that contributes to making things worse than how they started.
Shutout
Footballguy
Your list is the most damning thing against him. If we consider that you are correct about every item, it actually makes it worse.moleculo said:
Kubiak does have that history, as you list, but its a success in running, not all-world prolific ff passing (and we all should be clear here that we are REALLY burying him, not of general ability in the NFL, but of ability to be a top 5FF QB as we are accustomed to and expect).
The two players lost aren't coming back in the door and finding true replacements for that takes time and consistency and chemistry —something that is not on his side at his age.
The o-line — pretty much the same as the players. Everything Manning needs now to meet our lofty FF expectations are things that are not on his side, time wise. He's not a 27 year old where we would just accept it and hope for a better year or two later. At this point, we see him at his age, in his situation, etc, and we know that there is no value holding and thinking a 41 year old Peyton will re-emerge. He already had his renaissance 4 years ago. Most players don't get one. We shouldn't expect two.
His best FF value going forward might actually be if he is released from the Broncos after this season and then signed with a ready-built team (let's say Romo retired or Brady got hurt in training camp...something where he was plug and play and had the pieces around him.
moleculo
Footballguy
That's fair. His days as a top 5 QB are clearly over. Is he worth hanging onto, hoping to be at least startable again - that's the question. I still think there is top 12 upside in 2015, and cutting bait at this point may be premature.
For the record, I don't own Manning in any league.
Dizzy
Footballguy
I would echo those same comments for the Chiefs game as well. KC DB's dropped 3 easy INTs... 2 of which definitely had pick-6 potential.OU#1 said:
I think the title of this thread is quite accurate (sad to say)... been quite a while since we had a Peytonesque game to gush over (way back when CJ Anderson was emerging as RB1). Too long of a stretch for me to call it a slump.
msudaisy26
Footballguy
This is why I think it is over. A lot of us said Brady was all done after the first 4 games last year, but this is going on what 10 + games dating back to last year and the playoff game?
Dizzy
Footballguy
Yes, exactly. 1 game is just a bad game, and anomaly. A couple games becomes a bad stretch... further stretching leads to a trend. At what point does it just become the accepted truth?
amnesiac
beer is good
Weedon/Cassell, Manuel, Vick
shadyridr
Footballguy
haha yeah them too. I wasnt counting starters due to injury though
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purestrength
Footballguy
Wondering if this might be the worst career-ending season for a star ever. I remember Unitas & Namath were really bad. Peyton's probably close to that level of stinkage. Sad to see.
beef
Footballguy
Favre's last season was pretty bad. 13 games, 2509 yards, 11 TD, 19 INT, 7 fumbles.
ShamrockPride
Footballguy
Not disagreeing he isn't good anymore. The problem I think is that Kubiak is still trying to feature him as an offensive weapon. I think based on the team right now that he needs to just let the defense lead and relegate Peyton to a Dilfer-esque game manager role. I think they can win most games that way. Defense will lead them deep in the playoffs.
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