Jalen Hurts - When will he be benched for Gardner Minshew (1 Viewer)

[themeistersinger]

I'm a nervous Jalen Hurts manager.  Most fantasy analysts are bullish on Hurts for this year, based on his being the only QB to finish top 12 in every week this year.  But listening to Cecil and Sigmund on the podcast today, they suggest one big problem is the Eagles have not attempted to structure the offense for him, but are basically running the Carson Wentz offense, since they signed on as coaches assuming Wentz would be the QB.  And they think Minshew is better suited to a Carson Wentz offense than is Hurts.

A lot of Eagles fans are also very frustrated with Hurts obvious accuracy problems, so if that doesn't improve soon, the drumbeat from the fans is likely to grow.

So should I plan to ride or die with Hurts as my only QB?  Or should I hedge my bets and pick up a second QB (some available choices in my league would be Daniel Jones, Carson Wentz or Taylor Heinicke)?  It's a short bench so carrying a second QB does have a significant cost.

 

[Gold Fox]

I was intrigued as soon as the Eagles traded for Minshew in the preseason. I was wondering if they saw some red flags in training camp that led them to knowing Gardner might be needed at some point. Flacco was a suitable backup. They didn’t “need” Minshew.

With the Eagles being 2-5, if they drop the next two games to Detroit and LA, I could easily see the starting Gardner as early as Week 10 against the Broncos. If they beat Detroit by a slim margin and lose to LA, we may still see Minshew in week 10. Seems premature, but the coaching staff thinks they know what they can get out of Minshew, and they’ll need to compare results against Hurtz to make a decision moving forward.

 

[Chaka]

Why would the Eagles be running a Wentz offense when he was traded in February?

I was already very skeptical of his coaching ability already but if Siriani didn't modify his offensive scheme after trading Wentz but before any OTAs or TC then he is perhaps the dumbest coach in NFL history.

Aren't the Eagles running a ton of RPO for Hurts? Wentz has mobility but RPO really isn't suited to his strengths is it?

 

[Craig_MiamiFL]

Hopefully later than sooner as a Hurts fantasy owner. 

I agree we'll see the Stache and IMO the pass game will look a lot smoother.

Possible Hurts/Stache are both long-term backup QBs. But I think Stache has better chance to be more than that with a decent supporting cast. Also been a big believer in Stache. I think it'll be after Week 14 but who really knows.

 

[travdogg]

Not unless Hurts in injured. Minshew's best isn't as good as Hurts has been so far. Minshew has done a good job as a 6th rounder, as most 6th round QBs are out of the league pretty quickly, and never start games. That said, Minshew has never been anything more than an ok backup. Its possible that is what Hurts ends up being too, but he's more likely to be something more than that than Minshew is.

Hurts isn't the problem in Philly right now. 

ETA: In your shoes though, I may pick up Daniel Jones, as I think he was in the middle of a breakout season before all his weapons got injured. All of those guys are expected back at some point, possible even this week. 

 

[themeistersinger]

I was intrigued as soon as the Eagles traded for Minshew in the preseason. I was wondering if they saw some red flags in training camp that led them to knowing Gardner might be needed at some point. Flacco was a suitable backup. They didn’t “need” Minshew.

With the Eagles being 2-5, if they drop the next two games to Detroit and LA, I could easily see the starting Gardner as early as Week 10 against the Broncos. If they beat Detroit by a slim margin and lose to LA, we may still see Minshew in week 10. Seems premature, but the coaching staff thinks they know what they can get out of Minshew, and they’ll need to compare results against Hurtz to make a decision moving forward.

Actually, at the time I saw it as thinking Flacco was not a suitable backup, so they wanted to bring in somebody else so they could move on from Flacco.  Which they did end up doing this week.  Plus Flacco has never seemed like the type to want to mentor anybody, so the expected benefit of having a wily veteran in the QB room might not have been there with Flacco.  (pure speculation on my part).

But it's certainly possible they were more worried about Hurts than Flacco at the time.

 

[themeistersinger]

Why would the Eagles be running a Wentz offense we was traded in February?

I was already very skeptical of his coaching ability already but if Siriani didn't modify his offensive scheme after trading Wentz but before any OTAs or TC then he is perhaps the dumbest coach in NFL history.

Aren't the Eagles running a ton of RPO for Hurts? Wentz has mobility but RPO really isn't suited to his strengths is it?

I'm referring to Episode 269 The Audible Week 8 Preview Part 1 - Eagles vs. Lions discussion starts at 28:57.  

 

[travdogg]

Actually, at the time I saw it as thinking Flacco was not a suitable backup, so they wanted to bring in somebody else so they could move on from Flacco.  Which they did end up doing this week.  Plus Flacco has never seemed like the type to want to mentor anybody, so the expected benefit of having a wily veteran in the QB room might not have been there with Flacco.  (pure speculation on my part).

But it's certainly possible they were more worried about Hurts than Flacco at the time.

Lamar Jackson basically confirmed that when asked a couple years ago. 

 

[Johnny Utah #9]

I wouldn’t be surprised if it happens as soon as this week if Hurts continues to look as embarrassing out there as he’s looked most of the season. There are only so many games where the coach if going to accept the QB only having double digit passing yards going into the 4th quarter and consistently showing an inability to get the ball to receivers who are getting open (Smith).

The disconnect between fantasy and actual NFL football performance hasn’t been this stark since peak Bortles. I see Hurts getting the hook sooner rather than later.

 

[Chaka]

Not unless Hurts in injured. Minshew's best isn't as good as Hurts has been so far. Minshew has done a good job as a 6th rounder, as most 6th round QBs are out of the league pretty quickly, and never start games. That said, Minshew has never been anything more than an ok backup. Its possible that is what Hurts ends up being too, but he's more likely to be something more than that than Minshew is.

Hurts isn't the problem in Philly right now. 

ETA: In your shoes though, I may pick up Daniel Jones, as I think he was in the middle of a breakout season before all his weapons got injured. All of those guys are expected back at some point, possible even this week. 

Agree with pretty much everything except Hurts is absolutely part of the problem.

 

[fatness]

Flacco was a suitable backup.

Not to detract from the rest of your post but Flacco hasn't been a suitable backup QB for years. He's just a guy who won't retire and knows the drill.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

If he craps the bed against DET is gonna be Minshew madness. 

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Not to detract from the rest of your post but Flacco hasn't been a suitable backup QB for years. He's just a guy who won't retire and knows the drill.

And to be fair, if I could get a job making NFL minimum or more for holding a clipboard I wouldn’t retire either. 

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Agree with pretty much everything except Hurts is absolutely part of the problem.

He’s been downright awful.

 

[mrfrood]

I am not sure if I heard this correctly, but something along the lines of over 50% of Hurts' production has come in the 4th quarter. 

 

[travdogg]

I wouldn’t be surprised if it happens as soon as this week if Hurts continues to look as embarrassing out there as he’s looked most of the season. There are only so many games where the coach if going to accept the QB only having double digit passing yards going into the 4th quarter and consistently showing an inability to get the ball to receivers who are getting open (Smith).

The disconnect between fantasy and actual NFL football performance hasn’t been this stark since peak Bortles. I see Hurts getting the hook sooner rather than later.

Hurts isn't as bad as Bortles was. Hurts is adding a ton with his legs, Hurts isn't turning the ball over every other series. 

I honestly think Hurts is getting a bad rap, because he had 2 bad games on a Thursday and a Monday Night, when people who wouldn't normally watch him, have seen him. He looked great against Atlanta and Kansas City. He's also had a lot of bad drops by WRs, including Smith, and headlined by Reagor and Ward. 

I'm not going to argue Hurts is some great player. He always looked a lot like Tyrod Taylor to me, but that is still better than what Minshew brings, which is check downs and running around waiting to get sacked. Minshew got benched for Mike Glennon last year, and wasn't able to beat out CJ Beathard in Jaguars camp. 

Hurts to Minshew at best would be a sideways move, and a likely downgrade, where Eagles fans then change their complaints to not throwing down field enough, and taking too many sacks. 

Agree with pretty much everything except Hurts is absolutely part of the problem.

I think Hurts isn't good enough to carry garbage game plans, and poor coaching to consistent wins. So in that sense, I guess he's part of the problem. He's not Russell Wilson, that we can all agree on. 

 

[Weebs210]

Will be absolutely hilarious to see minshew behind that soft o-line. It won't be long before he would get destroyed and hurts back in.

 

[Chaka]

I think Hurts isn't good enough to carry garbage game plans, and poor coaching to consistent wins. So in that sense, I guess he's part of the problem. He's not Russell Wilson, that we can all agree on. 

I'm not see the consistent wins.

He's a 61% passer which isn't terrible I guess but it's definitely below average in today's NFL. Actually it's good for 29th ATM.

His 7.1 Y/A is also below average. 4 int is middle of the pack, as is 14 sacks and 10 TDs.

He does rank 18th overall in rushing which is very impressive and makes him tough to defend.

He's got all the physical tools in the world and is very young. The book has certainly not been closed on him.

But overall he's pretty much a one trick pony who isn't making his team or his teammates better ATM.

ETA: Definitely, absolutely 100% better than Minshew.

 

[TwinTurbo]

Not to detract from the rest of your post but Flacco hasn't been a suitable backup QB for years. He's just a guy who won't retire and knows the drill.

That's fair, but the reality is most NFL backup QBs are not suitable. Some starters aren't either. It's really hard to find a franchise QB, let alone a quality backup. 

Geno Smith is going to start again this week. That speaks volumes about the backup QB situation in the NFL.

 

[Tom Hagen]

It's not a huge difference but the trade for Minshew was a 6th that becomes a 5th if he plays more than 50% of the snaps in 3 games.   I don't see the Eagles playing him a few games in a wasted season and losing a round.  This was always a rebuilding year, they need to give Hurts as much time as possible to evaluate him even though he clearly doesn't look good enough so far.  

Also, the Minshew trade was more about the cap than Hurts.  For obvious reasons the Eagles value backup QB more than most and Minshew is an extremely inexpensive option for a couple years that has shown he can be serviceable. 

 

[themeistersinger]

Lamar Jackson basically confirmed that when asked a couple years ago. 

I also recall back when he was in Denver, he was asked if he expected to be a mentor to Drew Lock.  His reply was basically Nope, I'm here to be the starting QB.

 

[Timmay]

I am in the boat of Unless Hurts gets injured.

My thought process of why the Eagles brought Minshew in this offseason was in case Hurts went down, they would have someone who can at least be mobile like Hurts and unlike Flacco who is a statue back there. 

 

[Insein]

Will be absolutely hilarious to see minshew behind that soft o-line. It won't be long before he would get destroyed and hurts back in.

Oline has actually been ok this year. The problem is Hurts makes one read and then escapes outside the pocket. Eagles only have 14 sacks allowed this year. A more traditional passer might fair better.

 

[Weebs210]

Oline has actually been ok this year. The problem is Hurts makes one read and then escapes outside the pocket. Eagles only have 14 sacks allowed this year. A more traditional passer might fair better.

Disagree completely. They have only allowed 14 sacks because of hurts escapability. If minshew had been the starter the number would be much much higher.

 

[JohnnyU]

Isn't that like replacing Tori Spelling with Whoopi Goldberg?

 

[Insein]

Disagree completely. They have only allowed 14 sacks because of hurts escapability. If minshew had been the starter the number would be much much higher.

Then you're not watching the games. 

 

[Weebs210]

Then you're not watching the games. 

I've watched all the eagles snaps. Maybe you are browsing your phone while the games are on.

 

[Insein]

I've watched all the eagles snaps. Maybe you are browsing your phone while the games are on.

I can't fathom how someone can say they watched all the snaps and comes to the conclusion that the QB that makes one read and either throws to that guy (sometimes throws over or under the target) or stares blindly long enough to then realize he has to run.

Hurts has the most pocket time of any starting QB in the league at 2.6 seconds. 

 

[Weebs210]

I can't fathom how someone can say they watched all the snaps and comes to the conclusion that the QB that makes one read and either throws to that guy (sometimes throws over or under the target) or stares blindly long enough to then realize he has to run.

Hurts has the most pocket time of any starting QB in the league at 2.6 seconds. 

They are also in the bottom half of pressure allowed stats. They are not good.

 

[Chaka]

I can't fathom how someone can say they watched all the snaps and comes to the conclusion that the QB that makes one read and either throws to that guy (sometimes throws over or under the target) or stares blindly long enough to then realize he has to run.

Hurts has the most pocket time of any starting QB in the league at 2.6 seconds. 

Great stat. Where does one find that info? Is it on FBG? Is it somewhere else, behind a paywall?

 

[Chaka]

They are also in the bottom half of pressure allowed stats. They are not good.

Wouldn't that also flow from the QB holding onto the ball too long?

 

[Insein]

Great stat. Where does one find that info? Is it on FBG? Is it somewhere else, behind a paywall?

Profootball reference under advanced stats. 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2021/passing_advanced.htm

 

[Flying Elvis]

Hurts isn't as bad as Bortles was. Hurts is adding a ton with his legs, Hurts isn't turning the ball over every other series. 

I honestly think Hurts is getting a bad rap, because he had 2 bad games on a Thursday and a Monday Night, when people who wouldn't normally watch him, have seen him. He looked great against Atlanta and Kansas City. He's also had a lot of bad drops by WRs, including Smith, and headlined by Reagor and Ward. 

I'm not going to argue Hurts is some great player. He always looked a lot like Tyrod Taylor to me, but that is still better than what Minshew brings, which is check downs and running around waiting to get sacked. Minshew got benched for Mike Glennon last year, and wasn't able to beat out CJ Beathard in Jaguars camp. 

Hurts to Minshew at best would be a sideways move, and a likely downgrade, where Eagles fans then change their complaints to not throwing down field enough, and taking too many sacks. 

I think Hurts isn't good enough to carry garbage game plans, and poor coaching to consistent wins. So in that sense, I guess he's part of the problem. He's not Russell Wilson, that we can all agree on. 

I think this is pretty fair. Hurts has flaws (accuracy, arm strength, decision making) but has some really good tape, too. The coaching staff seems to be in way, way over the heads and Hurts isn't good enough to overcome that, and he may never be. I don't think we'll know if he can develop into a solid starter unless the coaching improves. 

I voted "Never unless Hurts gets injured" but it's entirely possible he gets benched if he can't improve on his flaws. I don't see good enough game planning and play calling to expect that to happen, though.

 

[fightingillini]

Not unless Hurts in injured. Minshew's best isn't as good as Hurts has been so far. Minshew has done a good job as a 6th rounder, as most 6th round QBs are out of the league pretty quickly, and never start games. That said, Minshew has never been anything more than an ok backup. Its possible that is what Hurts ends up being too, but he's more likely to be something more than that than Minshew is.

Hurts isn't the problem in Philly right now. 

ETA: In your shoes though, I may pick up Daniel Jones, as I think he was in the middle of a breakout season before all his weapons got injured. All of those guys are expected back at some point, possible even this week. 

 This.

I don't think Hurts is the long term solution in PHI, but Minshew isn't either.  PHI might as well start Hurts the ROS and see if he can improve.  I am skeptical about that, but it's not like PHI will begin winning games consistent games going to Minshew.

 

[Insein]

I also don't think Hurts gets pulled unless he's injured because this season means nothing. They need to evaluate him for as many games as they can. 

 

[FreeBaGeL]

This seems bizarre to even consider to me.

The Eagles traded away their franchise QB to make Hurts the starter.  Why in the world would they give up on that after half a season when the dude doesn't even have a full season's worth of starts yet.

Sure if you have a shot at a proven veteran like Watson or Russ then yea, you definitely take that over Hurts.  Or a top draft pick (which they will have from the Fins) to make a Kyler Murray type move.

But for Gardner Minshew?

Is it time for the Jets to move on from Zach Wilson, or the Bears to move on from Justin Fields?  Those guys only have 5-6 fewer starts than Hurts and have both been MUCH worse than Hurts ever has.

 

[menobrown]

I also don't think Hurts gets pulled unless he's injured because this season means nothing. They need to evaluate him for as many games as they can. 

I'm afraid they might feel need to give Minshew a week or so to evaluate him or maybe even see if they can coerce better play and out of him for off-season trade purposes.

 

[Insein]

I'm afraid they might feel need to give Minshew a week or so to evaluate him or maybe even see if they can coerce better play and out of him for off-season trade purposes.

There's time for that maybe in weeks 16-17 if Hurts really shows you nothing. 

 

[The General]

This seems bizarre to even consider to me.

The Eagles traded away their franchise QB to make Hurts the starter.  Why in the world would they give up on that after half a season when the dude doesn't even have a full season's worth of starts yet.

Sure if you have a shot at a proven veteran like Watson or Russ then yea, you definitely take that over Hurts.  Or a top draft pick (which they will have from the Fins) to make a Kyler Murray type move.

But for Gardner Minshew?

Is it time for the Jets to move on from Zach Wilson, or the Bears to move on from Justin Fields?  Those guys only have 5-6 fewer starts than Hurts and have both been MUCH worse than Hurts ever has.

Because the Eagles management and ownership are dopes

 

[themeistersinger]

There's time for that maybe in weeks 16-17 if Hurts really shows you nothing. 

Part of the problem for a Hurts manager is weeks 15-17 are the fantasy playoffs, and he has very good matchups.  Washington home, NY Giants home, Washington away.  Of course if he stinks in week 15 and you start him you probably aren't advancing to week 16 any way.

 

[Terpman22]

This seems bizarre to even consider to me.

The Eagles traded away their franchise QB to make Hurts the starter.  Why in the world would they give up on that after half a season when the dude doesn't even have a full season's worth of starts yet.

Sure if you have a shot at a proven veteran like Watson or Russ then yea, you definitely take that over Hurts.  Or a top draft pick (which they will have from the Fins) to make a Kyler Murray type move.

But for Gardner Minshew?

Is it time for the Jets to move on from Zach Wilson, or the Bears to move on from Justin Fields?  Those guys only have 5-6 fewer starts than Hurts and have both been MUCH worse than Hurts ever has.

Yeah the Philadelphia Eagles aren't really working on "linear logic" these days so it probably will never make sense. 

 

[Tom Hagen]

This seems bizarre to even consider to me.

The Eagles traded away their franchise QB to make Hurts the starter.  Why in the world would they give up on that after half a season when the dude doesn't even have a full season's worth of starts yet.

Sure if you have a shot at a proven veteran like Watson or Russ then yea, you definitely take that over Hurts.  Or a top draft pick (which they will have from the Fins) to make a Kyler Murray type move.

But for Gardner Minshew?

Is it time for the Jets to move on from Zach Wilson, or the Bears to move on from Justin Fields?  Those guys only have 5-6 fewer starts than Hurts and have both been MUCH worse than Hurts ever has.

The Eagles traded Wentz because the relationship was broken and he wanted out and because he was making a lot of money. They didn't trade him because they had Hurts, Hurts was just the only real option.

 

[Wooderson]

The Eagles traded Wentz because the relationship was broken and he wanted out and because he was making a lot of money. They didn't trade him because they had Hurts, Hurts was just the only real option.

Right, Wentz wanted out. IMO he quit on the Eagles. Fired out coach to make him happy and it still wasn't enough. 

 

[themeistersinger]

Thanks for all the replies and votes on this thread.  Very helpful to me.  

 

[tangfoot]

The disconnect between fantasy and actual NFL football performance hasn’t been this stark since peak Bortles. I see Hurts getting the hook sooner rather than later.

Just so I'm clear, you're referring to Blake Bortles?  The QB who led his team to the AFC Championship game and very nearly beat the Patriots in said game?

Because Hurts sure as #### ain't leading anyone to a championship game, he's not leading them to the playoffs. He's a terrible NFL QB.

 

[Johnny Utah #9]

Just so I'm clear, you're referring to Blake Bortles?  The QB who led his team to the AFC Championship game and very nearly beat the Patriots in said game?

Because Hurts sure as #### ain't leading anyone to a championship game, he's not leading them to the playoffs. He's a terrible NFL QB.

I’m talking the Bortles epic garbage time fantasy season of course. Of course Hurts is a terrible NFL QB. I’ve been saying it since last year.

 

[tangfoot]

I’m talking the Bortles epic garbage time fantasy season of course. Of course Hurts is a terrible NFL QB. I’ve been saying it since last year.

This is a myth.

 

[Sunday Gravy]

Hurts owner and I’m nervous too. He needs to play well this week. It’s painful watching him go deep with that big windup. 

 

[ignatiusjreilly]

And to be fair, if I could get a job making NFL minimum or more for holding a clipboard I wouldn’t retire either. 

Charlie Whitehurst may not be the hero we want, but he is the hero we need.

 

[ignatiusjreilly]

If he craps the bed against DET is gonna be Minshew madness. 

Not saying it will definitely happen, but if they do lose to the Lions it will have serious repercussions on the psyches of everyone associated with the team.