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I know remember when Brady Quinn totally lit up the LSU secondary and Jamarcus Russel threw 8 INTs against Notre Dame this past year?
Yes.
Oh I don't know. Let me see. Maybe I'm just spitballing here. Just off the top of my head I'd say he has to play first. But that's just one mans' opinion.Russell may or may not prove to be a 1st round bust. When will we be able to say for sure he did or did not pan out? Do we compare him to Brady Quinn, Vince Young, Leinart or Vick? I think he will not live up to expectations and be somewhere in the Seneca Wallace without the smarts mold. What say you?
Really......you can't figure it out?
You are absolutely correct, but no one gives Grossman 2 years of playing before deciding either (he has still to play 32 games). The world is full of "instant gratification" driven azzholes these days. Patience used to be a virtue.
For that matter, it seems WAY too early to give up on Kyle Orton then.
Hey, remember that time that Brady Quinn got to play Notre Dame's pathetic secondary, which was one of the worst in college football, while Russel was forced to play one of the best in the sport in LSU?How'd Russel do against any of the decent defenses he faced in college? What are his career stats against Florida? More importantly, who was almost benched prior to last season for a QB with no career starts? Russel might wind up being a better pro than Quinn, but it's pretty hard to argue that he was better in college outside of one game against one of the worst secondaries in all of college football.
If you look at historical data, if a QB is going to ever be a top-10 fantasy QB, he will be by either his second season as a starter, or his 3rd season overall. This is true something like 80-90% of the time. Granted, "top-10 fantasy QB" isn't the best metric for whether he's a great NFL QB, but generally speaking, you have to be at least average to be a top-10 fantasy QB. It's true that he hasn't made 32 starts yet, but it's not like he's just been hanging around and going to clubs for the past 4 years- he's been in the film room learning, and working with coaches. If you don't think that makes any difference, look at Carson Palmer or Phillip Rivers.
I couldn't have said it better myself. Guy was a great case of right place right time, and it was just a case of ND detractors getting giddy. They spend their whole year crapping on the talent level of the team, which is their right and fair enough, but you can't then act like he lit up the Steel curtain or something. Oakland won't have the considerable patience it will take to make this guy serviceable, and he'll be holding the clipboard on the Argonauts when Hilary is running for reelection.
Guys don't get that long anymore...Carr, Leftwich, Harrington, Boller, Couch....in fact you could say Grossman's injuries HELPED him delay the inevitable. If you aren't a guy that has the confidence of your team by year 3, the seat starts warming. If you don't have things in line by then end of year 4, you are out of a job.
This is what surprised me the most about Leftwich's demise. Very early on, he seemed to "get it" and would spell out his mistakes in post-game interviews and such. Oh well.
Car wreck mentality?
No ####. Why do you guys wish bust on ####### players before they even get a chance?
riiiiiight...
Russell may not be a stud because these young players aren't sure things, but the only things he has in common with Akili Smith are race and position...Russell was the top QB of his draft.Akili was the third.Russell completed 68% of his passes his last season and 60% his first, generally a solid predictor of NFL success...Akili completed 58% in his only season, not real good... Russell started for two seasons, another decent indicator of NFL success...Akili only started for one...Russell is 6-6Akili is 6-3 Russell piloted a top ranked team for two years, winning 20 games as a sophomore and juniorAkili only won 5 games as a starterSheesh...Russell has all the goods and then some to be an elite QB but only time will tell how it'll translate at this level...My honest opinion? Russell takes over the job before the season is over and will look impressive. Injuries are the only thing that will keep him from becoming one of the best QBs in the game. He's got one of the strongest arms in the NFL and he's extremely accurate. And he's elusive enough to move around in the pocket... He's a stud and I think people forget that most recent QB prospects wouldn't have unseated Calvin Johnson as the number one pick...
Your post is well-reasoned, but the bold part at the end is more a product of Oakland's desperate need for a playmaker at the QB position.riiiiiight...
Russell may not be a stud because these young players aren't sure things, but the only things he has in common with Akili Smith are race and position...
Russell was the top QB of his draft.
Akili was the third.
Russell completed 68% of his passes his last season and 60% his first, generally a solid predictor of NFL success...
Akili completed 58% in his only season, not real good...
Russell started for two seasons, another decent indicator of NFL success...
Akili only started for one...
Russell is 6-6
Akili is 6-3
Russell piloted a top ranked team for two years, winning 20 games as a sophomore and junior
Akili only won 5 games as a starter
Sheesh...
Russell has all the goods and then some to be an elite QB but only time will tell how it'll translate at this level...
My honest opinion? Russell takes over the job before the season is over and will look impressive. Injuries are the only thing that will keep him from becoming one of the best QBs in the game.
He's got one of the strongest arms in the NFL and he's extremely accurate. And he's elusive enough to move around in the pocket...
He's a stud and I think people forget that most recent QB prospects wouldn't have unseated Calvin Johnson as the number one pick...
Because they have so many great playmakers at WR already????
Curry, Porter >> WalterBecause they have so many great playmakers at WR already????
Really? I highly doubt Calvin would have gone before Eli, Palmer or Vick. VY is a better QB than Russell, but as he went #3, it's hard to tell where Calvin would have gone. Carr was extremely highly regarded, although hindsight would lead us to believe otherwise. He probably would have been taken ahead of Smith, so 1 out of the last 6. I'll give you 2000, 97 and MAYBE 99, but not 98. 3 or 4 of the last 10.BTW, the topic isn't THAT bad, seems to me he simply wants to know the timeframe to evaluate a QB he doesn't think highly of to begin with. I'd say 4 years.
That wasn't my point. My point is that Russell getting picked ahead of Calvin Johnson is not an indication that Russell is more talented. Anyone here think Mario Williams is a better talent than Reggie Bush?Because they have so many great playmakers at WR already????
Vince Young has already shown a lot as a pro so this argument is difficult to have but... as a college prospect, Russell graded better... Vince Young was considered years away from being able to lead a team and no one was really sure where he would be drafted in the top ten... Even in training camp, reports were that it was going to take Young several years to adjust to the NFL... Nobody said any of that about Russell in rookie camp. Granted, he held out so people didn't get to see as much of him as they saw of Young so maybe some of his flaws would have been exposed... but in early camps he did phenomenal and players/press were amazed at his arm.Curry, Porter >> WalterBecause they have so many great playmakers at WR already????
Really? I highly doubt Calvin would have gone before Eli, Palmer or Vick. VY is a better QB than Russell, but as he went #3, it's hard to tell where Calvin would have gone. Carr was extremely highly regarded, although hindsight would lead us to believe otherwise. He probably would have been taken ahead of Smith, so 1 out of the last 6. I'll give you 2000, 97 and MAYBE 99, but not 98. 3 or 4 of the last 10.
BTW, the topic isn't THAT bad, seems to me he simply wants to know the timeframe to evaluate a QB he doesn't think highly of to begin with.
I'd say 4 years.
Besides skin and position played, how can you tell this? He hasn't played yet.
I'm not referring to VY's pro play, that is an unfair argument. I saw a lot of VY in college, and the man was simply dominant. Russell was good, very good, but he doesn't have VY's ability to just take over the game. There's very little chance that Houston would have considered Russell, IIRC they wanted a contract basically signed before the pick. Maybe the Saints would have, if not for Brees, but I still think they would have taken Bush. The Titans were split between the 3 last year, so maybe they would have taken Russell, but I doubt it.Vince Young has already shown a lot as a pro so this argument is difficult to have but... as a college prospect, Russell graded better... Vince Young was considered years away from being able to lead a team and no one was really sure where he would be drafted in the top ten... Even in training camp, reports were that it was going to take Young several years to adjust to the NFL... Nobody said any of that about Russell in rookie camp. Granted, he held out so people didn't get to see as much of him as they saw of Young so maybe some of his flaws would have been exposed... but in early camps he did phenomenal and players/press were amazed at his arm.Curry, Porter >> WalterBecause they have so many great playmakers at WR already????Really? I highly doubt Calvin would have gone before Eli, Palmer or Vick. VY is a better QB than Russell, but as he went #3, it's hard to tell where Calvin would have gone. Carr was extremely highly regarded, although hindsight would lead us to believe otherwise. He probably would have been taken ahead of Smith, so 1 out of the last 6. I'll give you 2000, 97 and MAYBE 99, but not 98. 3 or 4 of the last 10.
BTW, the topic isn't THAT bad, seems to me he simply wants to know the timeframe to evaluate a QB he doesn't think highly of to begin with.
I'd say 4 years.
Heading into their respective drafts, Russell was a better player and had Russell been in last year's draft, there's no way the Texans select Williams... The choice would have been between Russell and Bush.
Now, in hind sight, Young looks like he'll be an excellent quarterback that can lead his team to victory. The Titans pick has panned out so far and it looks like the gamble they made on draft day will keep them competitive for a long while...
Russell has a long way to go to prove that, obviously... but I think he will and I don't think the Raiders took nearly as much of a gamble as the Titans did last year.
