I agree. So does Norwood. He told me so from his place on my bench. Now we just need to tell Petrino...What do the Falcons have to lose by playing him? Coming out of their bye, they have the 49ers - this would be a great way to get a new starting RB off to a confident and productive start.What (it can't be Dunn) is keeping Atlanta from giving this kid a true shot?
Draft position.What do the Falcons have to lose by playing him?
At this point, this makes too much sense for Petrino. I honestly question whether or not they want to win this year (vs draft pick) due to this. Unreal.FFdork said:I hope Norwood is working hard on that pass blocking because, aside from that, I see no reason that the team wouldn't want to give him a ton of touches down the stretch. They need to see how he responds to carrying the load so they know what to do at the position in the off-season. Atlanta has a pretty decent remaining schedule against the run too.
It is now, but it didn't have to be. Only team we really lost bad too was the Giants, all the rest we had opportunities to win, but couldn't move the ball in the redzone due to... wait for it... lack of a running game.Maybe they're protecting him from a beating behind that horrible line. This year is a write off anyway.
Draft position.What do the Falcons have to lose by playing him?
My big question: Are people in HOTlanta holding Petrino accountable for changing the running game scheme, causing the implosion factors that are there now (look at Hall, Crumpler, etc speaking out), and generally running a competitive team into the ground through personnel decisions, etc? He's looking VERY Steve Spurrier right now from the outside looking in.It is now, but it didn't have to be. Only team we really lost bad too was the Giants, all the rest we had opportunities to win, but couldn't move the ball in the redzone due to... wait for it... lack of a running game.Maybe they're protecting him from a beating behind that horrible line. This year is a write off anyway.
Draft position.What do the Falcons have to lose by playing him?
It's mixed. There's a large contingent that have already written him off as a college coach who has no business in the NFL, ala Spurrier. Others are pleased that he's changing the "chummy" atmosphere that Mora instilled and holding players accountable. However, there is, from my experience, pretty universal dismay at his decision not to go with Norwood at this point. There are plenty that will point to his lack of blocking, but even those are starting to realize that doesn't hold water at the moment. Blocking or no, you made the tough decision to start Leftwich for a spark, it's way past time to make the next move and start Norwood.Everyone knew that the running scheme was going to change. That was a given. I personally held no illusions we'd lead the league in rushing with Vick gone. I didn't think the drop-off would be this far though. Still, I should've expected it. Linemen have been drafted and picked up to fit Gibb's scheme, and there was going to be a transition while they got the personnel they needed. I'm actually quite frustrated at the lack of questions from the press on this point. I have yet to hear any of them press Petrino on this.My big question: Are people in HOTlanta holding Petrino accountable for changing the running game scheme, causing the implosion factors that are there now (look at Hall, Crumpler, etc speaking out), and generally running a competitive team into the ground through personnel decisions, etc? He's looking VERY Steve Spurrier right now from the outside looking in.It is now, but it didn't have to be. Only team we really lost bad too was the Giants, all the rest we had opportunities to win, but couldn't move the ball in the redzone due to... wait for it... lack of a running game.Maybe they're protecting him from a beating behind that horrible line. This year is a write off anyway.
Draft position.What do the Falcons have to lose by playing him?
Maybe this should be a different topic, but do you really think teams think this way? I know NBA teams have been accused of it, but in the NFL it seems like too many people have jobs on the line to not put your best team out on the field.Draft position.What do the Falcons have to lose by playing him?
getting their QB knocked out.What do the Falcons have to lose by playing him? Coming out of their bye, they have the 49ers - this would be a great way to get a new starting RB off to a confident and productive start.What (it can't be Dunn) is keeping Atlanta from giving this kid a true shot?
It's sure as hell being talked about around here. But I can't make myself believe it. Coaching jobs are far too tenous. Had the Falcons gone .500 this season, there would've actually been play-off buzz in this town, based on the division their in, and hopes built for next season.All I can figure is that BP is still feeling his way thru this, but he better hurry up.Maybe this should be a different topic, but do you really think teams think this way? I know NBA teams have been accused of it, but in the NFL it seems like too many people have jobs on the line to not put your best team out on the field.Draft position.What do the Falcons have to lose by playing him?
I don't think that would be any different with Norwood in there. Atlanta is in the top 5 in sacks allowed this year. I think people have seen a few plays where Norwood missed his block and all of a sudden he is the worst pass defending RB in the league.getting their QB knocked out.What do the Falcons have to lose by playing him? Coming out of their bye, they have the 49ers - this would be a great way to get a new starting RB off to a confident and productive start.What (it can't be Dunn) is keeping Atlanta from giving this kid a true shot?
Mora used him in the same way. These guys spend a lot more time with the players and know A LOT more than we do. If playing Norwood every down gave them the best chance to win both Mora and Petrino would have had Norwood starting. I think Norwood's situation is comparable to Tatum Bell when he was in Denver.At this point, this makes too much sense for Petrino. I honestly question whether or not they want to win this year (vs draft pick) due to this. Unreal.FFdork said:I hope Norwood is working hard on that pass blocking because, aside from that, I see no reason that the team wouldn't want to give him a ton of touches down the stretch. They need to see how he responds to carrying the load so they know what to do at the position in the off-season. Atlanta has a pretty decent remaining schedule against the run too.
Last game when Norwood was in there he got Harrington killed twice. One at the end of the half that Harrington injured his ankle on solely due to Norwood's whiff.I don't think that would be any different with Norwood in there. Atlanta is in the top 5 in sacks allowed this year. I think people have seen a few plays where Norwood missed his block and all of a sudden he is the worst pass defending RB in the league.getting their QB knocked out.What do the Falcons have to lose by playing him? Coming out of their bye, they have the 49ers - this would be a great way to get a new starting RB off to a confident and productive start.What (it can't be Dunn) is keeping Atlanta from giving this kid a true shot?
That was because Harrington holds onto the ball too long and he can't move out of the pocket. Harrington shouldn't even be playing football.Last game when Norwood was in there he got Harrington killed twice. One at the end of the half that Harrington injured his ankle on solely due to Norwood's whiff.I don't think that would be any different with Norwood in there. Atlanta is in the top 5 in sacks allowed this year. I think people have seen a few plays where Norwood missed his block and all of a sudden he is the worst pass defending RB in the league.getting their QB knocked out.What do the Falcons have to lose by playing him? Coming out of their bye, they have the 49ers - this would be a great way to get a new starting RB off to a confident and productive start.What (it can't be Dunn) is keeping Atlanta from giving this kid a true shot?
It doesn't help if the back totally whiffs on a block and the lineman gets to the QB without being touched....That was because Harrington holds onto the ball too long and he can't move out of the pocket. Harrington shouldn't even be playing football.Last game when Norwood was in there he got Harrington killed twice. One at the end of the half that Harrington injured his ankle on solely due to Norwood's whiff.I don't think that would be any different with Norwood in there. Atlanta is in the top 5 in sacks allowed this year. I think people have seen a few plays where Norwood missed his block and all of a sudden he is the worst pass defending RB in the league.getting their QB knocked out.What do the Falcons have to lose by playing him? Coming out of their bye, they have the 49ers - this would be a great way to get a new starting RB off to a confident and productive start.What (it can't be Dunn) is keeping Atlanta from giving this kid a true shot?
No, that's not true. Norwood failed to read the Saftey Blitz coming from his right & missed that blocking assignment completely. I don't care if Harrington had a Marino type release, he was still going down. Instead of having to beat the blocking RB, all the Safety had to do was beat vacant air. He was on top of Harrington before he could even blink.That was because Harrington holds onto the ball too long and he can't move out of the pocket. Harrington shouldn't even be playing football.Last game when Norwood was in there he got Harrington killed twice. One at the end of the half that Harrington injured his ankle on solely due to Norwood's whiff.I don't think that would be any different with Norwood in there. Atlanta is in the top 5 in sacks allowed this year. I think people have seen a few plays where Norwood missed his block and all of a sudden he is the worst pass defending RB in the league.getting their QB knocked out.What do the Falcons have to lose by playing him? Coming out of their bye, they have the 49ers - this would be a great way to get a new starting RB off to a confident and productive start.What (it can't be Dunn) is keeping Atlanta from giving this kid a true shot?
LOL, of course it does. If he's going to be a starting RB in the NFL you need to learn how to block. Otherwise you are in only on running downs and get subbed for on passing downs and I think the defense might pick that up after about one quarter of football.It shouldn't even matter whether or not Norwood is up to speed as a blocker yet. For God's sake, use a max protect scheme and send both Norwood and Dunn out on quick patterns! It's not like the Falcons are loaded with top-flight receiving threats!You wouldn't use Orlando Pace as a receiver... therefore, stop using your 5'6" running backs as offensive guards! Maybe the defense won't blitz every down if they have to stay honest.
Their season was lost when in the offseason when Vick was indicted...."The team announced Tuesday that some 3,000 tickets are still available for Sunday's game against the San Francisco 49ers, endangering a streak of 56 consecutive sellouts at the 70,000-seat Georgia Dome. If the Falcons don't sell the remaining tickets by 1 p.m. Thursday, the game would be blacked out locally under NFL rules. They have sold out every home game since Arthur Blank bought the team in 2002."The ####### Petrino is taking the whole ship down with him. This isn't just football it's also a business. When you cause an implosion and don't play your best players the team will lose audience. Losing audience translates to losing revenue. I feel sorry for season ticket holders who have to put up with Petrino and his inability to coach. I feel sorry for the entire city of Atlanta who has a coach that doesn't understand what being in professional football means. He has no ingredient for success.I truly feel sorry for you.
This has far, far, far more to do with Vick no longer being on the field & the Falcons opponent this weekend (49er's) than anything Petrino is doing, or has done."The team announced Tuesday that some 3,000 tickets are still available for Sunday's game against the San Francisco 49ers, endangering a streak of 56 consecutive sellouts at the 70,000-seat Georgia Dome. If the Falcons don't sell the remaining tickets by 1 p.m. Thursday, the game would be blacked out locally under NFL rules. They have sold out every home game since Arthur Blank bought the team in 2002."The ####### Petrino is taking the whole ship down with him. This isn't just football it's also a business. When you cause an implosion and don't play your best players the team will lose audience. Losing audience translates to losing revenue. I feel sorry for season ticket holders who have to put up with Petrino and his inability to coach. I feel sorry for the entire city of Atlanta who has a coach that doesn't understand what being in professional football means. He has no ingredient for success.I truly feel sorry for you.
I'm not saying that Norwood doesn't need to improve his blocking abilities. I'm saying that it is self-defeating to use the running back as an extra blocker in every single passing situation. You can force the middle or the weak-side linebackers to account for Norwood simply by placing him in the flat and leaving him as a quick dump-off option. Then, he is in open space. And that's where he excels. Besides, I don't buy the idea that Norwood is a terrible blocker. The Falcons entire offensive line is full of terrible blockers, and that's the problem. Having Dunn act as the "last line of defense" for Harrington isn't helping at all when you have 2 people run through the line untouched. Therefore, it's time to spread the ball around and use your halfback for swing passes and dump offs, like many NFL teams do.LOL, of course it does. If he's going to be a starting RB in the NFL you need to learn how to block. Otherwise you are in only on running downs and get subbed for on passing downs and I think the defense might pick that up after about one quarter of football.It shouldn't even matter whether or not Norwood is up to speed as a blocker yet. For God's sake, use a max protect scheme and send both Norwood and Dunn out on quick patterns! It's not like the Falcons are loaded with top-flight receiving threats!You wouldn't use Orlando Pace as a receiver... therefore, stop using your 5'6" running backs as offensive guards! Maybe the defense won't blitz every down if they have to stay honest.
Hey MikeyFL,You do know the Falcons are down to signing street FA's & talking to retired O'Linemen, just to try & get some warm bodies for their O'line, right? Their O'Line has been DECIMATED by injuries this year & they absolutely NEED their RB's to help out in the blocking department when it's called for.It shouldn't even matter whether or not Norwood is up to speed as a blocker yet. For God's sake, use a max protect scheme and send both Norwood and Dunn out on quick patterns! It's not like the Falcons are loaded with top-flight receiving threats!
You wouldn't use Orlando Pace as a receiver... therefore, stop using your 5'6" running backs as offensive guards! Maybe the defense won't blitz every down if they have to stay honest.
Well, they weren't decimated at the beginning of the year. I'm sorry, but the best way to get a defense out of blitz mode is to throw quick slants to the receivers and make sure that running backs are available for dump-off passes... especially when the quarterback isn't mobile.I might mention that the Falcons also have a fullback who could share in the blocking duties, thus freeing Norwood. No one is a bigger fan of Dunn than I am, but even he misses his share of blitzing linebackers and linemen.Hey MikeyFL,You do know the Falcons are down to signing street FA's & talking to retired O'Linemen, just to try & get some warm bodies for their O'line, right? Their O'Line has been DECIMATED by injuries this year & they absolutely NEED their RB's to help out in the blocking department when it's called for.It shouldn't even matter whether or not Norwood is up to speed as a blocker yet. For God's sake, use a max protect scheme and send both Norwood and Dunn out on quick patterns! It's not like the Falcons are loaded with top-flight receiving threats!
You wouldn't use Orlando Pace as a receiver... therefore, stop using your 5'6" running backs as offensive guards! Maybe the defense won't blitz every down if they have to stay honest.
I DO NOT want to see Chris Redman playing QB.
While I haven't seen much of the Falcons this year, I agree with this. If not Dunn, Mughelli instead. They did give him a big contract in the offseason. With backs and receivers, will anybody's feelings be hurt with White, Jenkins, Norwood, Crumpler, and Mughelli (or Dunn) on the field? Joe Horn does nothing.The problem it seems to me would be when the Falcons go 3 or 4 wide with only one back (Norwood), and his sole purpose is blocking. Just don't put him in in these situations. Having him in other formations and packages can still allow the offense to mix up the pass and run and keep the defense honest. What do the Falcons expect will happen when you leave a smaller RB 1 on 1 with a defensive lineman running full steam? Obviously, the blocking needs to improve, but Norwood still needs to touch the ball more.why can't atlanta pull a 2006 NO and put both Dunn and Norwood in at the same time?can't HURT could it?
No, they were just not drafted for the blocking scheme in place now, and weren't all that good to begin with. But I agree with your point. Knapp did the same idiotic nonsense, had one of the best pass-catching RBs in the NFL, and completely ignored him, especially on middle screens. Of course, in those days, Vick needed a 7 foot RB to complete a screen pass, but I'm just sayin'.Well, they weren't decimated at the beginning of the year. I'm sorry, but the best way to get a defense out of blitz mode is to throw quick slants to the receivers and make sure that running backs are available for dump-off passes... especially when the quarterback isn't mobile.I might mention that the Falcons also have a fullback who could share in the blocking duties, thus freeing Norwood. No one is a bigger fan of Dunn than I am, but even he misses his share of blitzing linebackers and linemen.Hey MikeyFL,You do know the Falcons are down to signing street FA's & talking to retired O'Linemen, just to try & get some warm bodies for their O'line, right? Their O'Line has been DECIMATED by injuries this year & they absolutely NEED their RB's to help out in the blocking department when it's called for.It shouldn't even matter whether or not Norwood is up to speed as a blocker yet. For God's sake, use a max protect scheme and send both Norwood and Dunn out on quick patterns! It's not like the Falcons are loaded with top-flight receiving threats!
You wouldn't use Orlando Pace as a receiver... therefore, stop using your 5'6" running backs as offensive guards! Maybe the defense won't blitz every down if they have to stay honest.
I DO NOT want to see Chris Redman playing QB.
I don't see anyone arguing that all of our problems are due to not starting Norwood, so that's a pretty silly summation. All anyone's saying is start him, and SEE what he's got.And besides, skinny legs are harder to grab on to.So to sum up this thread...all the problems the Falcons are having are due to not playing Norwood. RIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGHT.***Newsflash*** 1)Norwood isn't a draw as far as bringing in fans.2)Norwood doesn't have some kind of elite talent that the coaches are blind too.3)Norwood has skinny legs.
and what the hell does it matter if he has skinny legs? If he can catch the ball, run the ball and do it with success, does that mean he shouldn't simply because his legs are more diminutive?I don't see anyone arguing that all of our problems are due to not starting Norwood, so that's a pretty silly summation. All anyone's saying is start him, and SEE what he's got.And besides, skinny legs are harder to grab on to.So to sum up this thread...all the problems the Falcons are having are due to not playing Norwood. RIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGHT.***Newsflash*** 1)Norwood isn't a draw as far as bringing in fans.2)Norwood doesn't have some kind of elite talent that the coaches are blind too.3)Norwood has skinny legs.
Aaaahhhh! So this whole season so far has just been a ploy to motivate ??? Jerious Norwood????Mora used him in the same way. These guys spend a lot more time with the players and know A LOT more than we do. If playing Norwood every down gave them the best chance to win both Mora and Petrino would have had Norwood starting. I think Norwood's situation is comparable to Tatum Bell when he was in Denver.At this point, this makes too much sense for Petrino. I honestly question whether or not they want to win this year (vs draft pick) due to this. Unreal.FFdork said:I hope Norwood is working hard on that pass blocking because, aside from that, I see no reason that the team wouldn't want to give him a ton of touches down the stretch. They need to see how he responds to carrying the load so they know what to do at the position in the off-season. Atlanta has a pretty decent remaining schedule against the run too.
So to sum up this thread...all the problems the Falcons are having are due to not playing Norwood. RIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGHT.
You are absolutely right. I don't know why more teams in the NFL start using back up OLs at RB to pick up the blitz on passing downs.MikeyFL said:It shouldn't even matter whether or not Norwood is up to speed as a blocker yet. For God's sake, use a max protect scheme and send both Norwood and Dunn out on quick patterns! It's not like the Falcons are loaded with top-flight receiving threats!You wouldn't use Orlando Pace as a receiver... therefore, stop using your 5'6" running backs as offensive guards! Maybe the defense won't blitz every down if they have to stay honest.
That's part of the job description as I understand it.LILB811 said:While I haven't seen much of the Falcons this year, I agree with this. If not Dunn, Mughelli instead. They did give him a big contract in the offseason. With backs and receivers, will anybody's feelings be hurt with White, Jenkins, Norwood, Crumpler, and Mughelli (or Dunn) on the field? Joe Horn does nothing.The problem it seems to me would be when the Falcons go 3 or 4 wide with only one back (Norwood), and his sole purpose is blocking. Just don't put him in in these situations. Having him in other formations and packages can still allow the offense to mix up the pass and run and keep the defense honest. What do the Falcons expect will happen when you leave a smaller RB 1 on 1 with a defensive lineman running full steam? Obviously, the blocking needs to improve, but Norwood still needs to touch the ball more.Lash said:why can't atlanta pull a 2006 NO and put both Dunn and Norwood in at the same time?
can't HURT could it?
This is primarily what I was going for above, but like I said I haven't seen too many Falcons games. If that is indeed Petrino's system, it limits Norwood's opportunities.That being said, as an NFL head coach you have to make adjustments. Different formations or packages don't necessarily mean scrapping the current system, just utilizing a different part of the playbook, provided it exists. If a more talented player is on the bench because of stubbornness and an inability to adjust, there is a real problem.Big Score said:Now a lot of those suggested formations would work, but of course it would mean the scrapping of Petrino's 3 & 4 wide offense that all the Falcons players have learned through OTA's, Spring Training, Mini Camps, Pre Season & these last few regular season games & instituting a new type of offense in the middle of the year.Easy for us to talk it up & play arm chair QB, but I would hazard a guess that it would be rather difficult to smoothly transition the team into a new style offense right in the middle of the year. I just don't see Petrino making wholesale mid year changes to the offense, just for the sake of one player.
I don't think this makes any sense. If you use a max protect scheme, you generally keep both backs and at least one tight end in to block and only send one or two wide receivers on pass patterns. If you send both backs out on quick patterns you aren't leaving anyone in to block and therefore are not using a max protect scheme.MikeyFL said:It shouldn't even matter whether or not Norwood is up to speed as a blocker yet. For God's sake, use a max protect scheme and send both Norwood and Dunn out on quick patterns! It's not like the Falcons are loaded with top-flight receiving threats!
You wouldn't use Orlando Pace as a receiver... therefore, stop using your 5'6" running backs as offensive guards! Maybe the defense won't blitz every down if they have to stay honest.
The thing of it is, when we do see Norwood, a lot of the times it is Petrino using a different part of the play book for him. It's just that when they try & leave him in during their other plays, where the RB has to be accounted for but is actually going to block on a play fake, or even provide a chip block as he's releasing into the flat, that he is a liability & could result in their QB getting killed.However, Norwood is a good kid & I know both he & the staff are eager for him to see more action. I have to believe that the Falcons recent bye week was put to good use by the coaching staff. Hopefully they put a bit of time in with Norwood to help him read D's a little better, so that he is not a liability when called upon to help pass protect. If they did & Norwood responded, we should see more of him.This is primarily what I was going for above, but like I said I haven't seen too many Falcons games. If that is indeed Petrino's system, it limits Norwood's opportunities.That being said, as an NFL head coach you have to make adjustments. Different formations or packages don't necessarily mean scrapping the current system, just utilizing a different part of the playbook, provided it exists. If a more talented player is on the bench because of stubbornness and an inability to adjust, there is a real problem.Big Score said:Now a lot of those suggested formations would work, but of course it would mean the scrapping of Petrino's 3 & 4 wide offense that all the Falcons players have learned through OTA's, Spring Training, Mini Camps, Pre Season & these last few regular season games & instituting a new type of offense in the middle of the year.Easy for us to talk it up & play arm chair QB, but I would hazard a guess that it would be rather difficult to smoothly transition the team into a new style offense right in the middle of the year. I just don't see Petrino making wholesale mid year changes to the offense, just for the sake of one player.
Except Spurrier didn't have his pro bowl QB go to jail in the offseason.Gibbs scheme was based on running the ball; Petrino is all about passing. I have no problem with a head coach coming in and putting in place his philosophy, even if it means some veterans are gonna be unhappy. It's exactly what Belichick did when he took over in New England.My big question: Are people in HOTlanta holding Petrino accountable for changing the running game scheme, causing the implosion factors that are there now (look at Hall, Crumpler, etc speaking out), and generally running a competitive team into the ground through personnel decisions, etc? He's looking VERY Steve Spurrier right now from the outside looking in.It is now, but it didn't have to be. Only team we really lost bad too was the Giants, all the rest we had opportunities to win, but couldn't move the ball in the redzone due to... wait for it... lack of a running game.Maybe they're protecting him from a beating behind that horrible line. This year is a write off anyway.
Draft position.What do the Falcons have to lose by playing him?
I don't think this makes any sense. If you use a max protect scheme, you generally keep both backs and at least one tight end in to block and only send one or two wide receivers on pass patterns. If you send both backs out on quick patterns you aren't leaving anyone in to block and therefore are not using a max protect scheme.MikeyFL said:It shouldn't even matter whether or not Norwood is up to speed as a blocker yet. For God's sake, use a max protect scheme and send both Norwood and Dunn out on quick patterns! It's not like the Falcons are loaded with top-flight receiving threats!
You wouldn't use Orlando Pace as a receiver... therefore, stop using your 5'6" running backs as offensive guards! Maybe the defense won't blitz every down if they have to stay honest.
If the Falcons want to win a game, they need to make some defensive changes as well. They need to get pressure on the QB with an all-out blitz. Then they can drop their linebackers and DBs into the cover 2.I don't think this makes any sense. If you use a max protect scheme, you generally keep both backs and at least one tight end in to block and only send one or two wide receivers on pass patterns. If you send both backs out on quick patterns you aren't leaving anyone in to block and therefore are not using a max protect scheme.MikeyFL said:It shouldn't even matter whether or not Norwood is up to speed as a blocker yet. For God's sake, use a max protect scheme and send both Norwood and Dunn out on quick patterns! It's not like the Falcons are loaded with top-flight receiving threats!
You wouldn't use Orlando Pace as a receiver... therefore, stop using your 5'6" running backs as offensive guards! Maybe the defense won't blitz every down if they have to stay honest.
If the Falcons want to win a game, they need to make some defensive changes as well. They need to get pressure on the QB with an all-out blitz. Then they can drop their linebackers and DBs into the cover 2.I don't think this makes any sense. If you use a max protect scheme, you generally keep both backs and at least one tight end in to block and only send one or two wide receivers on pass patterns. If you send both backs out on quick patterns you aren't leaving anyone in to block and therefore are not using a max protect scheme.MikeyFL said:It shouldn't even matter whether or not Norwood is up to speed as a blocker yet. For God's sake, use a max protect scheme and send both Norwood and Dunn out on quick patterns! It's not like the Falcons are loaded with top-flight receiving threats!
You wouldn't use Orlando Pace as a receiver... therefore, stop using your 5'6" running backs as offensive guards! Maybe the defense won't blitz every down if they have to stay honest.