Jerry Rice or Jim Brown.... in their prime (1 Viewer)

[Raider Nation]

*For the purpose of this poll, please assume two things before voting*

1) "Your team" lacks a star RB and a star WR. Both positions are huge areas of need.

2) You will get 8 great years from each player beginning now. Eight years. No more, no less.

Brown's best 8-year stretch:

Yards Per Carry: 5.9 / 4.6 / 5.8 / 4.6 / 4.3 / 6.4 / 5.2 / 5.3

Total Yards Per Game: 139, 127, 122, 134, 108, 152, 128, 134

116 TDs in 106 games

Rice's best 8-year stretch:

Yards Per Catch: 20.4 / 18.1 / 15.0 / 15.1 / 14.3 / 15.3 / 13.4 / 15.1

Total Yards Per Game: 88, 95, 94, 76, 79, 98, 100, 118

112 TDs in 128 games

A simple vote without a reply would be fine, but I'd like to hear your reasoning for choosing one over the other. Any time someone mentions the "best offensive football player" ever, Rice and Brown are the two names which come up most often. I'm curious which of them would be the more valued commodity.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Jim Brown would eat Jerry Rice and then go out and run over everyone for 150 yds and 2 TDs so I'll take Brown.

 

[jurb26]

I'd rather have my pick between Randy Moss and Barry Sanders but for the purposes of your poll I picked Brown.

WRs (generally) rely heavily on a QB getting them the ball. RBs just require you to get our of the way if you suck. I'll take the elite RB.

 

[Raider Nation]

Brown was almost a Raider... at 47.

 

[Jack Burton]

There is no substitute for a stong running game.

Brown

 

[ConstruxBoy]

Brown. Ball Control. And yes, I know you can control the ball with a passing offense. I think running it is safer.

 

[Raider Nation]

WRs (generally) rely heavily on a QB getting them the ball. RBs just require you to get our of the way if you suck.

Glad you added "generally" to the sentence.Calvin Johnson had 1,331 & 12 last year with the legendary quartet of Kitna, Culpepper, Stanton and Orlovsky throwing to him.

 

[jurb26]

WRs (generally) rely heavily on a QB getting them the ball. RBs just require you to get our of the way if you suck.

Glad you added "generally" to the sentence.Calvin Johnson had 1,331 & 12 last year with the legendary quartet of Kitna, Culpepper, Stanton and Orlovsky throwing to him.

Calvin Johnson helped his team so much they went 0-16.

 

[Yenrub]

I went with Jim Brown and his roughly 105 yards per game over Jerry Rice

 

[baconisgood]

if you are gauranteed his production then its Jim Brown hands down- if you get their clone playing now Jerry Rice.

 

[Knobs]

Jerry Rice. You don't get their best stats in those eight years, you simply get the player for 8 years.

While Brown was a phenomenal player, I'll take the Broncos approach...draft a good o-line, then have some scrubs play effective.

Rice will elevate my qb and other wr's.

Basically, I think it's easier to find a good run game with generic players than it is to find good wr's with no names.

 

[Knobs]

if you are gauranteed his production then its Jim Brown hands down- if you get their clone playing now Jerry Rice.

 

[boubucarow]

WRs (generally) rely heavily on a QB getting them the ball. RBs just require you to get our of the way if you suck.

Glad you added "generally" to the sentence.Calvin Johnson had 1,331 & 12 last year with the legendary quartet of Kitna, Culpepper, Stanton and Orlovsky throwing to him.

Calvin Johnson helped his team so much they went 0-16.

Not like 5-11 three separate times with Barry Sanders was all that much better.

 

[Raider Nation]

WRs (generally) rely heavily on a QB getting them the ball. RBs just require you to get our of the way if you suck.

Glad you added "generally" to the sentence.Calvin Johnson had 1,331 & 12 last year with the legendary quartet of Kitna, Culpepper, Stanton and Orlovsky throwing to him.

Calvin Johnson helped his team so much they went 0-16.

Not like 5-11 three separate times with Barry Sanders was all that much better.

 

[jurb26]

WRs (generally) rely heavily on a QB getting them the ball. RBs just require you to get our of the way if you suck.

Glad you added "generally" to the sentence.Calvin Johnson had 1,331 & 12 last year with the legendary quartet of Kitna, Culpepper, Stanton and Orlovsky throwing to him.

Calvin Johnson helped his team so much they went 0-16.

Not like 5-11 three separate times with Barry Sanders was all that much better.

Det made the playoffs 5 times in Sanders 10 years and Det had back to back 4 win seasons and a 5 win season prior to him being drafted.

 

[Raider Nation]

Of all the Super Bowl winning teams over the past 43 years, it would be interesting to see how many of them were lead by a Hall of Fame (or HoF caliber, for the recent teams) wide receiver, and how many were lead by a HoF running back. The 90s Cowboys had both.

 

[wadegarrett]

Jim Brown would eat Jerry Rice and then go out and run over everyone for 150 yds and 2 TDs so I'll take Brown.

 

[tdmills]

I took Rice b/c he could succeed without having a huge size advantage. I take this poll as the present day, so more passing is obvious as well as other RB's around Brown's size.

 

[Adebisi]

Rice. Running backs are a dime a dozen.

 

[Raider Nation]

Jerry Rice won 3 Super Bowls. Here is the leading rusher on each team:

1994 - Ricky Watters... 877 yards, 6 TDs

1989 - Roger Craig... 1,054 yards, 6 TDs

1988 - Roger Craig... 1,502 yards, 9 TDs

With the exception of Craig's great year in 1988, you can certainly make a case that Rice was the main reason for the titles.

 

[jurb26]

Jerry Rice won 4 Super Bowls. Here is the leading rusher on each team:1994 - Ricky Watters... 877 yards, 6 TDs1989 - Roger Craig... 1,054 yards, 6 TDs1988 - Roger Craig... 1,502 yards, 9 TDs1984 - Wendell Tyler... 1,262 yards, 7 TDsWith the exception of Craig's great year in 1988, you can certainly make a case that Rice was the main reason for the titles.

Jerry Rice had this guy named Joe Montana throwing passes. Maybe you've heard of him?

 

[Manster]

if you are gauranteed his production then its Jim Brown hands down- if you get their clone playing now Jerry Rice.

this.Jim Brown wouldnt be as dominant today as he was back then. he was a man amongst boys in his day.

 

[boubucarow]

Jerry Rice won 4 Super Bowls. Here is the leading rusher on each team:1994 - Ricky Watters... 877 yards, 6 TDs1989 - Roger Craig... 1,054 yards, 6 TDs1988 - Roger Craig... 1,502 yards, 9 TDs1984 - Wendell Tyler... 1,262 yards, 7 TDsWith the exception of Craig's great year in 1988, you can certainly make a case that Rice was the main reason for the titles.

First, Rice was in college in 1984. In 1988 and 89, they had Joe Montana and a top 5 defense. In 1994, they had Steve Young and a top 10 defense.

 

[Raider Nation]

Jerry Rice won 4 Super Bowls. Here is the leading rusher on each team:1994 - Ricky Watters... 877 yards, 6 TDs1989 - Roger Craig... 1,054 yards, 6 TDs1988 - Roger Craig... 1,502 yards, 9 TDs1984 - Wendell Tyler... 1,262 yards, 7 TDsWith the exception of Craig's great year in 1988, you can certainly make a case that Rice was the main reason for the titles.

Jerry Rice had this guy named Joe Montana throwing passes. Maybe you've heard of him?

My research indicates that Brown had three O-lineman blocking for him who are in the Hall of Fame. OMG... he had help!!!1

 

[Carver]

A motivated Randy Moss or Rice?

 

[Phlash]

A motivated Randy Moss or Rice?

Randy

 

[Raider Nation]

A motivated Randy Moss or Rice?

Can you guarantee he stays motivated?

 

[Adebisi]

A motivated Randy Moss or Rice?

Can you guarantee he stays motivated?

Sure, put him on the Patriots.

 

[Adebisi]

Of all the Super Bowl winning teams over the past 43 years, it would be interesting to see how many of them were lead by a Hall of Fame (or HoF caliber, for the recent teams) wide receiver, and how many were lead by a HoF running back. The 90s Cowboys had both.

Looks like quite a few Super Bowl winners had neither...

 

[Chase Stuart]

Jerry Rice won 4 Super Bowls. Here is the leading rusher on each team:

1994 - Ricky Watters... 877 yards, 6 TDs

1989 - Roger Craig... 1,054 yards, 6 TDs

1988 - Roger Craig... 1,502 yards, 9 TDs

1984 - Wendell Tyler... 1,262 yards, 7 TDs

With the exception of Craig's great year in 1988, you can certainly make a case that Rice was the main reason for the titles.

Jerry Rice had this guy named Joe Montana throwing passes. Maybe you've heard of him?

My research indicates that Brown had three O-lineman blocking for him who are in the Hall of Fame. OMG... he had help!!!1

Brown not only rushed behind one of the greatest offensive lines any RB ever had, he also benefited from a super easy schedule. Brown's numbers are so far ahead of everyone else's as to make those points largely moot in a debate about his place among running backs, but things get a bit different when dealing with Rice. Brown's replacement also made the HOF, although you could say the same thing about Rice.I agree with the poster that said if you could take Brown's stats, you take them. But I'd grab Rice, because he seemed to be able to excel in every situation possible. He had 1200 receiving yards at age 40. Only one other WR was even PLAYING at age 39. And while the Montana/Young argument is true, Rice also dominated with bad QBs.

So during those four seasons, during which Kemp, Moroski, Bono, Grbac, and Brohm were QBing the 49ers 41 percent of the time, Rice averaged 1470 and 13. And really only one of those seasons was during what would typically be considered a wide receiver’s prime years.

It's an interesting debate, but I certainly wouldn't call either far ahead of the other.

 

[Raider Nation]

Of all the Super Bowl winning teams over the past 43 years, it would be interesting to see how many of them were lead by a Hall of Fame (or HoF caliber, for the recent teams) wide receiver, and how many were lead by a HoF running back. The 90s Cowboys had both.

Looks like quite a few Super Bowl winners had neither...

Can we pretend Lynn Swann isn't in there so we can shorten the list even more?

 

[Adebisi]

Of all the Super Bowl winning teams over the past 43 years, it would be interesting to see how many of them were lead by a Hall of Fame (or HoF caliber, for the recent teams) wide receiver, and how many were lead by a HoF running back. The 90s Cowboys had both.

Looks like quite a few Super Bowl winners had neither...

Can we pretend Lynn Swann isn't in there so we can shorten the list even more?

Of course we can!

 

[Raider Nation]

Brown's replacement also made the HOF, although you could say the same thing about Rice.

You are referring to Owens, yes?

 

[Da Guru]

It is hard to compare eras.

A WR like Rice may have been a bit player in Browns era.

Jim Brown may have been a short yardage guy in Rices era.

 

[slayer666]

Flip a coin... I really cannot decide.

These are my two favorite players of all time. IMO, both of them are the GOAT at their individual positions.

 

[Raider Nation]

Jim Brown may have been a short yardage guy in Rices era.

If I've disagreed more with a statement since I've been a member of this board, I don't know what it is.

 

[Casting Couch]

Jim Brown would eat Jerry Rice and then go out and run over everyone for 150 yds and 2 TDs so I'll take Brown.

what he said.

 

[-jb-]

On a message board founded on the premise of VBD, I'm surprised Rice is getting skunked in this poll. When you compare Rice to an average WR, there's a much larger separation than there is between Brown and an average RB.

 

[Raider Nation]

On a message board founded on the premise of VBD, I'm surprised Rice is getting skunked in this poll. When you compare Rice to an average WR, there's a much larger separation than there is between Brown and an average RB.

Agreed.On the one hand, I wanted to suggest that maybe people forget just how crazy good Rice was.On the other hand, Brown's career was over in 1965, so that argument kinda goes down the toilet.

 

[Raider Nation]

"Montana to Rice"

The game against Atlanta at the 2:00 mark... my opponent that week had Rice.

Highest single-week total for one player in the history of our league at that point.

 

[drew726]

So is this like saying, do I want LT's record breaking season for 8 years straight?

 

[-jb-]

So is this like saying, do I want LT's record breaking season for 8 years straight?

No, it's not like saying that.

 

[Adebisi]

So is this like saying, do I want LT's record breaking season for 8 years straight?

No, it's not like saying that.

 

[money.never.sleeps]

I'll take Rice. No player I know of was more motivated and worked as tirelessly perfecting his craft.

Can't go wrong with either but I'm prone to pick Rice.. though he was a childhood hero of mine so what can I say.

 

[SSOG]

Jerry Rice. You don't get their best stats in those eight years, you simply get the player for 8 years.While Brown was a phenomenal player, I'll take the Broncos approach...draft a good o-line, then have some scrubs play effective. Rice will elevate my qb and other wr's. Basically, I think it's easier to find a good run game with generic players than it is to find good wr's with no names.

If it's so easy, why hasn't any other team managed to do it?I'd take Brown. I'm generally in the "RBs are fungible" camp, but an RB dominating at the level Brown did is a different beast entirely. The biggest difference is that I control when Brown gets the ball, while the defense can often dictate when Rice gets the ball (in theory- obviously it never really worked out in practice).If I could get Don Hutson's production, only scaled up for this era, then I'd take him over either in a heartbeat.

 

[1970's Oakland Raiders Secondary]

Jim Brown. And it's not even that close.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Even if you think Brown was the better player RBs are more fungible than WRs. I'll take rice for reasons of scarcity.

 

[bcr8f]

I said Jim Brown because Rice needs a QB to get him the ball.

H

and didn't retire because he was hurt. The defenders were the ones getting hurt when he ran.

 

[beachbum]

Is it PPR?

 

[FUBAR]

Of all the Super Bowl winning teams over the past 43 years, it would be interesting to see how many of them were lead by a Hall of Fame (or HoF caliber, for the recent teams) wide receiver, and how many were lead by a HoF running back. The 90s Cowboys had both.

I won't go back that far, but 10 years, the top players on their team:Super Bowl XLIII: Pittsburgh Steelers - LB, S

Super Bowl XLII: New York Giants - DE, DE, DT

Super Bowl XLI: Indianapolis Colts - QB, WR, DE

Super Bowl XL: Pittsburgh Steelers - S, NT, LB, C, G

Super Bowl XXXIX: New England Patriots - QB, RB, LB, DE

Super Bowl XXXVIII: New England Patriots - S, LB, DE, DT

Super Bowl XXXVII: Tampa Bay Buccaneers - LB, DE, DT, CB

Super Bowl XXXVI: New England Patriots - S

Super Bowl XXXV: Baltimore Ravens - LB, FS, LT

Super Bowl XXXIV: St. Louis Rams - RB, WR, QB, DE

Looking through this list it's clear to me that you all can have Rice or Brown, I'll take Lawrence Taylor or maybe Reggie White; no team has won the super bowl without a difference making defensive player, at least in the last 10 years. Very few SB champs have relied on their QB, only the Colts and Rams were led by WRs and that's arguably not even true. Two RBs have led their team to the SB championship, and one of those is Corey Dillon who didn't so much lead the team as benefit from it. I'll give full props to Faulk even though Warner was simply outstanding.