Jerry Sandusky accused of child molestation (3 Viewers)

[Smack Tripper]

I'm asking for proof that he was in denial.

Thank you. You have none. It's a theory pulled out of your behind that you've chosen to cling to for no other reason than to be argumentative, seemingly.

Hold it. I stated an opinion. The opinion was that denial played a part in Paterno's failures. For that you called me unreasonable. Others agreed that it was possible. Denial is in the mind. There is no way for me to "prove" Paterno was in denial. Yet you've kept insisting that I prove that he was in denial. The only one who is being argumentative is you.

I sense that we are going in circles and there is no real point to continue. To be clear, I do not dismiss your assertion out of hand, but only wish to hear if there is information that I'm not aware of.

Sure, that's why you called me unreasonable.

Read what you want to read, quote what you want to quote. I support my words, and you called me stupid on multiple occasions. Face it counselor, you're no different then some lout spouting down at the corner bar, you just can't support your assertions.

I don't mind the notion of a fishing trip dude, but in a stocked lake, you fish with this crap bait? There are so many more worthy points to dissect. The question of Joe Paterno being "in denial" in not really a worthy one.

 

[pantherclub]

Good God, after catching up with this thread is Christo really defending Paterno here? Holy hell dude.

 

[fatness]

Him personally look into it? No. He told Curley & Schultz. Curley met with Sandusky. Curley informed Second Mile. Second Mile concluded that nothing was going on. And as far as McQueary, maybe Paterno thought he had just misinterpreted it. As several people have pointed out, there was nothing logical to how he approached the situation.

There was logic to it. He reported it to Curley and Schultz so they could look into it and bury it. Which they decided to do 3 days later.

Three days after Mike McQueary saw Jerry Sandusky molesting a boy in a shower in 2001, two top administrators at Pennsylvania State University had begun to craft a plan:

They would not notify authorities.

How is that logical? If you want to bury something you don't go telling other people about it.

In what world is that true?Paterno knew that people in positions of power (Curley, Schultz, Spanier) would do what he wanted, and spend the time and effort necessary to do it. He wanted them to bury it and they did, without he himself having to bother with dealing with it. It worked for a lot of years.

 

[Christo]

Good God, after catching up with this thread is Christo really defending Paterno here? Holy hell dude.

 

[Christo]

I'm asking for proof that he was in denial.

Thank you. You have none. It's a theory pulled out of your behind that you've chosen to cling to for no other reason than to be argumentative, seemingly.

Hold it. I stated an opinion. The opinion was that denial played a part in Paterno's failures. For that you called me unreasonable. Others agreed that it was possible. Denial is in the mind. There is no way for me to "prove" Paterno was in denial. Yet you've kept insisting that I prove that he was in denial. The only one who is being argumentative is you.

I sense that we are going in circles and there is no real point to continue. To be clear, I do not dismiss your assertion out of hand, but only wish to hear if there is information that I'm not aware of.

Sure, that's why you called me unreasonable.

Read what you want to read, quote what you want to quote. I support my words, and you called me stupid on multiple occasions. Face it counselor, you're no different then some lout spouting down at the corner bar, you just can't support your assertions.

I don't mind the notion of a fishing trip dude, but in a stocked lake, you fish with this crap bait? There are so many more worthy points to dissect. The question of Joe Paterno being "in denial" in not really a worthy one.

Yet you've spent the last few pages trying to disprove it.

 

[fatness]

Is Christo a PSU alum/fan or is he just arguing to argue in here?

The latter.

 

[CrossEyed]

A report on ESPN says the trustees have decided that the statue stays up for now. It looks like they are afraid to upset alumni (read donors) who adore the coach. One trustee is even quoted as saying "the statue represents the good that Joe did. It doesn't represent the bad he did".

Still worshipping at the altar of football and football donors. Nothing will change unless the NCAA steps in. Nothing.

My god, you people don't give up, do you? There was no NCAA infraction here. It isn't some all-seeing, all-knowing, all-powerful savior.

Then I guess nothing is going to change at PSU or any other campus where sports, and specifically football, has become its god. It's a sad commentary on where our society has gone. Protect a serial pedophile for the sake of a football program and the money it brings in and then just go on like it never happened. Sickening and sad. I hope the civil lawsuits gut that institution.

 

[Christo]

Him personally look into it? No. He told Curley & Schultz. Curley met with Sandusky. Curley informed Second Mile. Second Mile concluded that nothing was going on. And as far as McQueary, maybe Paterno thought he had just misinterpreted it. As several people have pointed out, there was nothing logical to how he approached the situation.

There was logic to it. He reported it to Curley and Schultz so they could look into it and bury it. Which they decided to do 3 days later.

Three days after Mike McQueary saw Jerry Sandusky molesting a boy in a shower in 2001, two top administrators at Pennsylvania State University had begun to craft a plan:

They would not notify authorities.

How is that logical? If you want to bury something you don't go telling other people about it.

In what world is that true?Paterno knew that people in positions of power (Curley, Schultz, Spanier) would do what he wanted, and spend the time and effort necessary to do it. He wanted them to bury it and they did, without he himself having to bother with dealing with it. It worked for a lot of years.

This world. You haven't explained why it was necessary for Paterno to go to Curley, Schultz & Spanier to "bury" something only Paterno & McQueary knew about. If Paterno wanted to bury it all he had to do was tell McQueary to keep his mouth shut. You aren't suggesting that Paterno could tell Curley, Schultz & Spanier what to do but he couldn't keep McQueary in line, are you?

 

[fatness]

Halo removed from Paterno on painting.

It should have been removed awhile ago for being tacky. Pic

 

[CrossEyed]

Halo removed from Paterno on painting.

It should have been removed awhile ago for being tacky. Pic

Didn't he just add it when Paterno died?

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

Is Christo a PSU alum/fan or is he just arguing to argue in here?

The latter.

Yep

 

[fatness]

Him personally look into it? No. He told Curley & Schultz. Curley met with Sandusky. Curley informed Second Mile. Second Mile concluded that nothing was going on. And as far as McQueary, maybe Paterno thought he had just misinterpreted it. As several people have pointed out, there was nothing logical to how he approached the situation.

There was logic to it. He reported it to Curley and Schultz so they could look into it and bury it. Which they decided to do 3 days later.

Three days after Mike McQueary saw Jerry Sandusky molesting a boy in a shower in 2001, two top administrators at Pennsylvania State University had begun to craft a plan:

They would not notify authorities.

How is that logical? If you want to bury something you don't go telling other people about it.

In what world is that true?Paterno knew that people in positions of power (Curley, Schultz, Spanier) would do what he wanted, and spend the time and effort necessary to do it. He wanted them to bury it and they did, without he himself having to bother with dealing with it. It worked for a lot of years.

This world. You haven't explained why it was necessary for Paterno to go to Curley, Schultz & Spanier to "bury" something only Paterno & McQueary knew about. If Paterno wanted to bury it all he had to do was tell McQueary to keep his mouth shut. You aren't suggesting that Paterno could tell Curley, Schultz & Spanier what to do but he couldn't keep McQueary in line, are you?

So in Christo world, Joe Paterno did things wrong. The proof is that what he did doesn't support Christo's argument.

 

[Christo]

Him personally look into it? No. He told Curley & Schultz. Curley met with Sandusky. Curley informed Second Mile. Second Mile concluded that nothing was going on. And as far as McQueary, maybe Paterno thought he had just misinterpreted it. As several people have pointed out, there was nothing logical to how he approached the situation.

There was logic to it. He reported it to Curley and Schultz so they could look into it and bury it. Which they decided to do 3 days later.

Three days after Mike McQueary saw Jerry Sandusky molesting a boy in a shower in 2001, two top administrators at Pennsylvania State University had begun to craft a plan:

They would not notify authorities.

How is that logical? If you want to bury something you don't go telling other people about it.

In what world is that true?Paterno knew that people in positions of power (Curley, Schultz, Spanier) would do what he wanted, and spend the time and effort necessary to do it. He wanted them to bury it and they did, without he himself having to bother with dealing with it. It worked for a lot of years.

This world. You haven't explained why it was necessary for Paterno to go to Curley, Schultz & Spanier to "bury" something only Paterno & McQueary knew about. If Paterno wanted to bury it all he had to do was tell McQueary to keep his mouth shut. You aren't suggesting that Paterno could tell Curley, Schultz & Spanier what to do but he couldn't keep McQueary in line, are you?

So in Christo world, Joe Paterno did things wrong. The proof is that what he did doesn't support Christo's argument.

I have no idea what this means.

 

[fatness]

Halo removed from Paterno on painting.

It should have been removed awhile ago for being tacky. Pic

Didn't he just add it when Paterno died?

Yes. That was in the article.

 

[fatness]

Him personally look into it? No. He told Curley & Schultz. Curley met with Sandusky. Curley informed Second Mile. Second Mile concluded that nothing was going on. And as far as McQueary, maybe Paterno thought he had just misinterpreted it. As several people have pointed out, there was nothing logical to how he approached the situation.

There was logic to it. He reported it to Curley and Schultz so they could look into it and bury it. Which they decided to do 3 days later.

Three days after Mike McQueary saw Jerry Sandusky molesting a boy in a shower in 2001, two top administrators at Pennsylvania State University had begun to craft a plan:

They would not notify authorities.

How is that logical? If you want to bury something you don't go telling other people about it.

In what world is that true?Paterno knew that people in positions of power (Curley, Schultz, Spanier) would do what he wanted, and spend the time and effort necessary to do it. He wanted them to bury it and they did, without he himself having to bother with dealing with it. It worked for a lot of years.

This world. You haven't explained why it was necessary for Paterno to go to Curley, Schultz & Spanier to "bury" something only Paterno & McQueary knew about. If Paterno wanted to bury it all he had to do was tell McQueary to keep his mouth shut. You aren't suggesting that Paterno could tell Curley, Schultz & Spanier what to do but he couldn't keep McQueary in line, are you?

So in Christo world, Joe Paterno did things wrong. The proof is that what he did doesn't support Christo's argument.

I have no idea what this means.

I explained why he did what he did. If you wish to make points that it's not logical or reasonable, you'll need to dig Joe up and tell him. Of course, he'll probably ask Curley, Schultz, and Spanier to deal with you.

 

[Smack Tripper]

Him personally look into it? No. He told Curley & Schultz. Curley met with Sandusky. Curley informed Second Mile. Second Mile concluded that nothing was going on. And as far as McQueary, maybe Paterno thought he had just misinterpreted it. As several people have pointed out, there was nothing logical to how he approached the situation.

There was logic to it. He reported it to Curley and Schultz so they could look into it and bury it. Which they decided to do 3 days later.

Three days after Mike McQueary saw Jerry Sandusky molesting a boy in a shower in 2001, two top administrators at Pennsylvania State University had begun to craft a plan:

They would not notify authorities.

How is that logical? If you want to bury something you don't go telling other people about it.

Its logical if you realize that Paterno needs a firewall of plausible deniability to continuing dealing with McQueary, who is part of the PSU football coaching community, the student body as a graduate student and the alumni network. Any further questions from him, Joe can say, "hey, i fed it up the ladder." And, coincidentally, this choice also protects Joe on one legal layer down the line, a point which has been the central pillar of his defense. " Joe told his bosses" is a mantra oft repeated in bold letters. The fine print of Joe also not told them to take a humane approach in managing the situation is not screamed from the mountaintops.

 

[CrossEyed]

Halo removed from Paterno on painting.

It should have been removed awhile ago for being tacky. Pic

Didn't he just add it when Paterno died?

Yes. That was in the article.

Adding the blue ribbon has to infuriate the victims that he did absolutely nothing to help.

 

[Christo]

Him personally look into it? No. He told Curley & Schultz. Curley met with Sandusky. Curley informed Second Mile. Second Mile concluded that nothing was going on. And as far as McQueary, maybe Paterno thought he had just misinterpreted it. As several people have pointed out, there was nothing logical to how he approached the situation.

There was logic to it. He reported it to Curley and Schultz so they could look into it and bury it. Which they decided to do 3 days later.

Three days after Mike McQueary saw Jerry Sandusky molesting a boy in a shower in 2001, two top administrators at Pennsylvania State University had begun to craft a plan:

They would not notify authorities.

How is that logical? If you want to bury something you don't go telling other people about it.

In what world is that true?Paterno knew that people in positions of power (Curley, Schultz, Spanier) would do what he wanted, and spend the time and effort necessary to do it. He wanted them to bury it and they did, without he himself having to bother with dealing with it. It worked for a lot of years.

This world. You haven't explained why it was necessary for Paterno to go to Curley, Schultz & Spanier to "bury" something only Paterno & McQueary knew about. If Paterno wanted to bury it all he had to do was tell McQueary to keep his mouth shut. You aren't suggesting that Paterno could tell Curley, Schultz & Spanier what to do but he couldn't keep McQueary in line, are you?

So in Christo world, Joe Paterno did things wrong. The proof is that what he did doesn't support Christo's argument.

I have no idea what this means.

I explained why he did what he did. If you wish to make points that it's not logical or reasonable, you'll need to dig Joe up and tell him.

Your explanation was that Paterno involved three other men in covering up something only he and McQueary knew about. No need to dig anyone up. That is not logical on its face.

 

[Smack Tripper]

Halo removed from Paterno on painting.

It should have been removed awhile ago for being tacky. Pic

Didn't he just add it when Paterno died?

Yes. That was in the article.

Adding the blue ribbon has to infuriate the victims that he did absolutely nothing to help.

The blue ribbon is absolutely infuriating

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

A report on ESPN says the trustees have decided that the statue stays up for now. It looks like they are afraid to upset alumni (read donors) who adore the coach. One trustee is even quoted as saying "the statue represents the good that Joe did. It doesn't represent the bad he did".

Still worshipping at the altar of football and football donors. Nothing will change unless the NCAA steps in. Nothing.

My god, you people don't give up, do you? There was no NCAA infraction here. It isn't some all-seeing, all-knowing, all-powerful savior.

Then I guess nothing is going to change at PSU or any other campus where sports, and specifically football, has become its god. It's a sad commentary on where our society has gone. Protect a serial pedophile for the sake of a football program and the money it brings in and then just go on like it never happened. Sickening and sad. I hope the civil lawsuits gut that institution.

Penn St is the epitome of a football factory. I hope the NCAA steps in because no one at Penn St seems capable of doing the right thing.

 

[Christo]

Him personally look into it? No. He told Curley & Schultz. Curley met with Sandusky. Curley informed Second Mile. Second Mile concluded that nothing was going on. And as far as McQueary, maybe Paterno thought he had just misinterpreted it. As several people have pointed out, there was nothing logical to how he approached the situation.

There was logic to it. He reported it to Curley and Schultz so they could look into it and bury it. Which they decided to do 3 days later.

Three days after Mike McQueary saw Jerry Sandusky molesting a boy in a shower in 2001, two top administrators at Pennsylvania State University had begun to craft a plan:

They would not notify authorities.

How is that logical? If you want to bury something you don't go telling other people about it.

Its logical if you realize that Paterno needs a firewall of plausible deniability to continuing dealing with McQueary, who is part of the PSU football coaching community, the student body as a graduate student and the alumni network. Any further questions from him, Joe can say, "hey, i fed it up the ladder." And, coincidentally, this choice also protects Joe on one legal layer down the line, a point which has been the central pillar of his defense. " Joe told his bosses" is a mantra oft repeated in bold letters. The fine print of Joe also not told them to take a humane approach in managing the situation is not screamed from the mountaintops.

But he doesn't. This is a man who can tell university presidents to keep their mouths shut.

 

[Smack Tripper]

Him personally look into it? No. He told Curley & Schultz. Curley met with Sandusky. Curley informed Second Mile. Second Mile concluded that nothing was going on. And as far as McQueary, maybe Paterno thought he had just misinterpreted it. As several people have pointed out, there was nothing logical to how he approached the situation.

There was logic to it. He reported it to Curley and Schultz so they could look into it and bury it. Which they decided to do 3 days later.

Three days after Mike McQueary saw Jerry Sandusky molesting a boy in a shower in 2001, two top administrators at Pennsylvania State University had begun to craft a plan:

They would not notify authorities.

How is that logical? If you want to bury something you don't go telling other people about it.

Its logical if you realize that Paterno needs a firewall of plausible deniability to continuing dealing with McQueary, who is part of the PSU football coaching community, the student body as a graduate student and the alumni network. Any further questions from him, Joe can say, "hey, i fed it up the ladder." And, coincidentally, this choice also protects Joe on one legal layer down the line, a point which has been the central pillar of his defense. " Joe told his bosses" is a mantra oft repeated in bold letters. The fine print of Joe also not told them to take a humane approach in managing the situation is not screamed from the mountaintops.

But he doesn't. This is a man who can tell university presidents to keep their mouths shut.

He also told them he'd coach his last game and leave and they were somehow able to kick him out. Can you have a little bit of absolute power?

 

[JZilla]

Halo removed from Paterno on painting.

It should have been removed awhile ago for being tacky. Pic

Didn't he just add it when Paterno died?

Yes. That was in the article.

Adding the blue ribbon has to infuriate the victims that he did absolutely nothing to help.

The blue ribbon is absolutely infuriating

It starting to get pretty weird how NOBODY up there seems to get it. The statue's staying. Here's a blue ribbon for Joe. Oopsy, Joe, you did a boo-boo so no more halo til things cool down!I know a couple PSU grads and they get it Hell one of them was burying JP from day one, I'm gonna have to apologize to her like I did to you torch wavers

Safe to say football is too big up there in the Happy Valley. That's an understatement at this point. What can anybody do about it? At this point maybe the alumni need to step forward and somehow issue a giant WAKE THE #### UP?

That statue has to go someday... typical brilliance shown by the board to put it off til school is back in full swing

 

[ICON211]

Your explanation was that Paterno involved three other men in covering up something only he and McQueary knew about. No need to dig anyone up. That is not logical on its face.

They all knew about the 1998 incident which takes on a new significance when the 2001 incident comes to light. It is possible that he was discussing what to do with others who knew about 1998. I also would like to know who else you believe was "in denial." Do you believe it was just Paterno or were Curley, Shultz and Spanier also in denial?

 

[Furious Styles]

The trustees have picked up right where Paterno, Spanier, Schultz and Curley left off when it comes to lack of leadership. Thinking the alumni will offer a wake up call seems unlikely as I would have to imagine the most powerful alumni are the ones saying don't even think about disrupting my Saturday football games.

While a monster like Sandusky is obviously an outlier don't the same dynamics still exist at PSU today that allowed him to operate with impunity for over a decade?

 

[JZilla]

The trustees have picked up right where Paterno, Spanier, Schultz and Curley left off when it comes to lack of leadership. Thinking the alumni will offer a wake up call seems unlikely as I would have to imagine the most powerful alumni are the ones saying don't even think about disrupting my Saturday football games. While a monster like Sandusky is obviously an outlier don't the same dynamics still exist at PSU today that allowed him to operate with impunity for over a decade?

Appears to be the caseI don't know what the solution is. Maybe the NCAA - who KNOW this is way out of their wheelhouse - are left with no choice but come out as self-respecting human beings and orchestrate the suspension of the program.

 

[The_Man]

I'm been around two other athletic programs that had situations that were minor in comparison to what went on at Penn State.

In 2000, news surfaced that the University of Vermont hockey team was hazing players. The University cancelled the season.

In 2001, a player from the #1 high school lacrosse team in the country showed teammates a tape of himself having sex with a girl. The school cancelled the rest of the season.

Obviously the Vermont hockey team and a Baltimore prep school's lacrosse team aren't as big a deal as Penn State football. However, to those 2 schools, they are a huge deal and far and away the most important sport. But those two schools had no problem with taking appropriate steps to deal with inappropriate behavior.

And it goes without saying that the infractions they reacted to were far less significant than allowing a coach - that is an employee of the institution who is supposed to be a leader in the community - to horrifically abuse children for a decade.

The leaders at Penn State made decisions that were not only wrong and selfish, but illegal and immoral, and there's no real indication that the culture has been sufficiently changed as of yet. I think they should tear it down - give up a season, or more - and start over. Otherwise, they're building on the same rotten foundation.

 

[Apple Jack]

I'm been around two other athletic programs that had situations that were minor in comparison to what went on at Penn State.

In 2000, news surfaced that the University of Vermont hockey team was hazing players. The University cancelled the season.

In 2001, a player from the #1 high school lacrosse team in the country showed teammates a tape of himself having sex with a girl. The school cancelled the rest of the season.

Obviously the Vermont hockey team and a Baltimore prep school's lacrosse team aren't as big a deal as Penn State football. However, to those 2 schools, they are a huge deal and far and away the most important sport. But those two schools had no problem with taking appropriate steps to deal with inappropriate behavior.

And it goes without saying that the infractions they reacted to were far less significant than allowing a coach - that is an employee of the institution who is supposed to be a leader in the community - to horrifically abuse children for a decade.

The leaders at Penn State made decisions that were not only wrong and selfish, but illegal and immoral, and there's no real indication that the culture has been sufficiently changed as of yet. I think they should tear it down - give up a season, or more - and start over. Otherwise, they're building on the same rotten foundation.

Those two schools weren't dealing with the kind of money that the Penn State football program pulls in.

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

I'm been around two other athletic programs that had situations that were minor in comparison to what went on at Penn State.

In 2000, news surfaced that the University of Vermont hockey team was hazing players. The University cancelled the season.

In 2001, a player from the #1 high school lacrosse team in the country showed teammates a tape of himself having sex with a girl. The school cancelled the rest of the season.

Obviously the Vermont hockey team and a Baltimore prep school's lacrosse team aren't as big a deal as Penn State football. However, to those 2 schools, they are a huge deal and far and away the most important sport. But those two schools had no problem with taking appropriate steps to deal with inappropriate behavior.

And it goes without saying that the infractions they reacted to were far less significant than allowing a coach - that is an employee of the institution who is supposed to be a leader in the community - to horrifically abuse children for a decade.

The leaders at Penn State made decisions that were not only wrong and selfish, but illegal and immoral, and there's no real indication that the culture has been sufficiently changed as of yet. I think they should tear it down - give up a season, or more - and start over. Otherwise, they're building on the same rotten foundation.

Those two schools weren't dealing with the kind of money that the Penn State football program pulls in.

Yep. Penn St showing that football money is more important than anything else. Pathetic.

 

[timschochet]

Is Christo a PSU alum/fan or is he just arguing to argue in here?

The latter.

Yep

Neither. His point is valid.

 

[ICLight]

I'm been around two other athletic programs that had situations that were minor in comparison to what went on at Penn State.

In 2000, news surfaced that the University of Vermont hockey team was hazing players. The University cancelled the season.

In 2001, a player from the #1 high school lacrosse team in the country showed teammates a tape of himself having sex with a girl. The school cancelled the rest of the season.

Obviously the Vermont hockey team and a Baltimore prep school's lacrosse team aren't as big a deal as Penn State football. However, to those 2 schools, they are a huge deal and far and away the most important sport. But those two schools had no problem with taking appropriate steps to deal with inappropriate behavior.

And it goes without saying that the infractions they reacted to were far less significant than allowing a coach - that is an employee of the institution who is supposed to be a leader in the community - to horrifically abuse children for a decade.

The leaders at Penn State made decisions that were not only wrong and selfish, but illegal and immoral, and there's no real indication that the culture has been sufficiently changed as of yet. I think they should tear it down - give up a season, or more - and start over. Otherwise, they're building on the same rotten foundation.

Those two schools weren't dealing with the kind of money that the Penn State football program pulls in.

Yep. Penn St showing that football money is more important than anything else. Pathetic.

Yep. To the tune of over $53 million:Revenues of $72,747,734. Expenses of $19,519,288.

These are the figures Penn State's associate athletic director Richard Kaluza entered on a required U.S. Department of Education form detailing financial data for PSU's football team during the fiscal year ending June 30, 2011.

That's $53,228,446 in profit

http://blog.pennlive.com/davidjones/2012/07/penn_state_football_is_a_53_mi.html

 

[JZilla]

I don't know if anybody has brought up how much this situation at the top of Penn State football was like the Mafia, but wow. The infallible don, in poor health but still sharp, capos who were just following orders, the kid McQueary who did right by the family and was rewarded for it... all to protect a made guy who had a horrible habit.

I don't know how much fear of embarrassment to the program really had to do with it. Maybe on the part of the capos. I think in reality it was more like the mafia protecting their own.

I was very naive about the power Joe Pa held up there, and the extent of the reverence as well. Many of us were I think.

 

[timschochet]

I predict that within less than a month the board will reconsider their decision and remove the statue.

 

[The Commish]

Based on what grounds? I know the LOIC premise has been brought up, but I fail to see how that applies here. Every single LOIC case that's been brought has been brought because of NCAA rules being broken over and over at schools. ...

Who is Rudy Archer? Well I guess a coach driving a former player who flunked out to a community college each day is technically "being broken over and over at schools".I think this situation, while far from a perfect analogy or anywhere near the same magnitude is still the correct one for this situation. Allowing the football team/athletic department to create their own internal rules to run by is the very definition of lack of institutional control.

The point was made earlier that the powers of the school seemed to know exactly what they were doing and were in complete control.

If you include the board among "the powers", I completely disagree.

And if you exclude them?

Why would you?

Why did you go with the "if" in your first question. I didn't say ALL the people in power knew about it and orchestrated it. That's not what the report said.

Because the discussion earlier did not include that information was concealed from the board.

I thought it was well established regarding who knew what and what they knew. I didn't feel it necessary to list the individuals by name. Sorry.

No one thought to list them, so it appears that no one considered them. Do you think they're an important consideration regarding "institutional control"? Or do you think you can fairly exclude them and come to the same conclusions?

This pretty much asking me if I think the CEO should know about the dealings of every single person first hand in the company and if he/she should be responsible when an employee goes rogue. If we believe the report and that there is no evidence that the board had any knowledge of these activities and there's a list of specific people who not only orchestrated the events but also kept the information from the board, I see no reason in bringing the board into this. For now, based on what we know, I have no problem excluding them and coming to my same conclusions. One could always place the unreasonable responsibility I outlined on them, but to me, I don't see the point in doing that.

 

[The Commish]

A report on ESPN says the trustees have decided that the statue stays up for now. It looks like they are afraid to upset alumni (read donors) who adore the coach. One trustee is even quoted as saying "the statue represents the good that Joe did. It doesn't represent the bad he did".

This won't end well if they keep going down this path.

 

[The Commish]

A report on ESPN says the trustees have decided that the statue stays up for now. It looks like they are afraid to upset alumni (read donors) who adore the coach. One trustee is even quoted as saying "the statue represents the good that Joe did. It doesn't represent the bad he did".

Still worshipping at the altar of football and football donors. Nothing will change unless the NCAA steps in. Nothing.

It doesn't matter what the NCAA does. There is still going to be blind worship for people/places/things. This is no exception.

 

[Apple Jack]

A report on ESPN says the trustees have decided that the statue stays up for now. It looks like they are afraid to upset alumni (read donors) who adore the coach. One trustee is even quoted as saying "the statue represents the good that Joe did. It doesn't represent the bad he did".

This won't end well if they keep going down this path.

They're going to need to guard it 24/7.

 

[The Commish]

A report on ESPN says the trustees have decided that the statue stays up for now. It looks like they are afraid to upset alumni (read donors) who adore the coach. One trustee is even quoted as saying "the statue represents the good that Joe did. It doesn't represent the bad he did".

This won't end well if they keep going down this path.

They're going to need to guard it 24/7.

It need not even be up much less the trustees telling people what it represents. That's the part that won't be received well.

 

[The Commish]

So, let's say the NCAA comes in and stick their nose in where it doesn't belong. What kind of punishment are they looking at dealing here? If there is some ethics rule that they hide behind and dump LOIC on top of it, what's the sentence? A few years of bowl bans and loss of scholarships? That's the precedence they've set with their past actions. How could anyone be happy with a punishment like that? Or is there a real thought that the NCAA will just ignore their history and pattern of rules applications and attempt to shut everything down? IMO, they go this route it does nothing but help PSU sweep it under the rug because PSU is certain to sue and make this about the NCAA vs PSU.

 

[JZilla]

A report on ESPN says the trustees have decided that the statue stays up for now. It looks like they are afraid to upset alumni (read donors) who adore the coach. One trustee is even quoted as saying "the statue represents the good that Joe did. It doesn't represent the bad he did".

Still worshipping at the altar of football and football donors. Nothing will change unless the NCAA steps in. Nothing.

It doesn't matter what the NCAA does. There is still going to be blind worship for people/places/things. This is no exception.

Maybe I'm still being naive but I think this is a pretty exceptional case. Football's huge in a lot of places but I'd like to see Nick Saban try to muscle Dr. Bonner and Mal Moore into protecting a child molester on his staff. Hell, Jim Tressel was ####canned for - what? I don't even remember.This is a product of one guy being too successful for too long in the same place. There have been cases like it before, certainly in Bama at one time, but it's not common. There are a few programs in college hoops where the head coach has an awful lot of clout but not like this.. if nothing else, basketball just isn't that big..There are a lot of statues of sports figures around this country and I'd like to think that 99% of them would come right down without question if the conscious enabling of child rape came to light.

 

[Borat]

I was very naive about the power Joe Pa held up there, and the extent of the reverence as well. Many of us were I think.

I don't think so at all. I think those of us who were calling for Paterno's head from the beginning had a pretty good idea of what happened there. I think it was primarily the Penn State fans/alumni and the Paterno defenders who wanted to bury their heads in the sand on this.

 

[The Commish]

A report on ESPN says the trustees have decided that the statue stays up for now. It looks like they are afraid to upset alumni (read donors) who adore the coach. One trustee is even quoted as saying "the statue represents the good that Joe did. It doesn't represent the bad he did".

Still worshipping at the altar of football and football donors. Nothing will change unless the NCAA steps in. Nothing.

It doesn't matter what the NCAA does. There is still going to be blind worship for people/places/things. This is no exception.

Maybe I'm still being naive but I think this is a pretty exceptional case. Football's huge in a lot of places but I'd like to see Nick Saban try to muscle Dr. Bonner and Mal Moore into protecting a child molester on his staff. Hell, Jim Tressel was ####canned for - what? I don't even remember.This is a product of one guy being too successful for too long in the same place. There have been cases like it before, certainly in Bama at one time, but it's not common. There are a few programs in college hoops where the head coach has an awful lot of clout but not like this.. if nothing else, basketball just isn't that big..There are a lot of statues of sports figures around this country and I'd like to think that 99% of them would come right down without question if the conscious enabling of child rape came to light.

I'd like to think all this as well, but my cynicism won't allow me to.

 

[JZilla]

I was very naive about the power Joe Pa held up there, and the extent of the reverence as well. Many of us were I think.

I don't think so at all. I those of us who were calling for Paterno's head from the beginning had a pretty good idea of what happened there. I think it was primarily the Penn State fans/alumni and the Paterno defenders who wanted to bury their heads in the sand on this.

I didn't say all of us were, but thanks for another dose of self-righteousnessYou #######s were right but you've said a lot of terrible things to a lot of good people in this thread and for that you can go #### yourselves.

 

[Wrighteous Ray]

There are a lot of statues of sports figures around this country

Is this true? I can't really think of any I know.

 

[JZilla]

There are a lot of statues of sports figures around this country

Is this true? I can't really think of any I know.

Off the top of my head I know of three stadiums within an hour of you that have at least one

 

[Borat]

There are a lot of statues of sports figures around this country

Is this true? I can't really think of any I know.

In Boston alone, there are statues for Ted Williams (2 of them), Bobby Doerr, Dom DiMaggio, Johnny Pesky, Red Auerbach, Cy Young, Doug Flutie, and Bobby Orr, with a Bill Russell statue forthcoming. I would imagine that Tom Brady will one day have one, too.

 

[timschochet]

How many college coaches have ever received the reverence of Joe Paterno? What I mean is, respected in their communities not only as great coaches, but also as great men? I can only think of three:

John Wooden

Bear Bryant

Tom Osborne

Perhaps there are others, but they're not coming to mind for me right now.

 

[Borat]

I was very naive about the power Joe Pa held up there, and the extent of the reverence as well. Many of us were I think.

I don't think so at all. I those of us who were calling for Paterno's head from the beginning had a pretty good idea of what happened there. I think it was primarily the Penn State fans/alumni and the Paterno defenders who wanted to bury their heads in the sand on this.

I didn't say all of us were, but thanks for another dose of self-righteousnessYou #######s were right but you've said a lot of terrible things to a lot of good people in this thread and for that you can go #### yourselves.

I don't recall saying anything terrible to anyone in this thread.

 

[Wrighteous Ray]

There are a lot of statues of sports figures around this country

Is this true? I can't really think of any I know.

Off the top of my head I know of three stadiums within an hour of you that have at least one

Hmm, I have no idea what they are.

 

[Borat]

How many college coaches have ever received the reverence of Joe Paterno? What I mean is, respected in their communities not only as great coaches, but also as great men? I can only think of three:

John Wooden

Bear Bryant

Tom Osborne

Perhaps there are others, but they're not coming to mind for me right now.

Boston University hockey coach Jack Parker comes to mind, but he might get about 1% of the recognition nationally that Joe Paterno did.