Jerry Sandusky accused of child molestation (1 Viewer)

[Joe Bryant]

I've been hearing some criticism of the Penn State students on the radio this morning, the ones who went to Paterno's house last night and shouted their loyalty. I don't think this group should be criticized. This is human nature. Someone whom they regard as "one of their own" is under attack nationally, and the common reaction is to rally around him. Bob Knight received the same treatment. Given all of the facts and time to reflect, I'm betting that many if not most of these students will come to regret the fact that they were such vocal supporters of Paterno once this story broke. But let's not blame them for reacting emotionally in the initial stages.

Couldn't disagree more.People get to act however they want and they get a free pass because they're "emotional"? It's ok somehow as long as many of them regret it later?When you hear: "Tough life, when people do certain things to you. Anyway, you've been great. Everything's great, all right." and the very first response is to shout "We love you Joe". I don't give that a free pass. I'm sorry.I think it's a symptom of the bigger picture which looks to me why this was allowed to go on - the power wielded by the football program here allowed it to be above the law. Does anyone for a minute think this kind of thing would have been allowed to continue the same way if Sandusky was a non famous elementary school teacher with no political clout and his boss wasn't a legendary football coach? I don't.The blind loyalty ignoring reality is scary.And the question about turning your back on the guy is fair. But there is a difference between supporting someone you love and going to party on their front yard and yell for their hero. I can see that the decision to turn your friend into the police would be excruciating. That had to be difficult for Paterno. But if he knew about it, allowing it go on is worse in my opinion.J

Thanks for posting this again. But I believe it's human nature to rally around your own, especially when the criticism appears to come from national sources. Unlike you I think we should be generous with these students and give them a break for their initial reaction. If they continue to act this way in a few weeks' time, then I personally wouldn't be so forgiving.

I'm not saying it isn't human nature. That doesn't excuse anything. It was "human nature" to do whatever had to be done so that these people in power are protected too.J

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

Dumb question. Which victim started this investigation? How did they find out about all 8 victims? If this stuff was all kept on the hush hush until recently.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/09/penn-state-scandal-timeline-jerry-sandusky_n_1084204.html

A chronological look at the case against former Penn State assistant football coach Jerry Sandusky, based on a grand jury report in Pennsylvania state court. Some key dates in Penn State football history are included. Sandusky has been charged with 40 criminal counts, accusing him of serial sex abuse of minors.___1969 – Jerry Sandusky starts his coaching career at Penn State University as a defensive line coach.1977 – Jerry Sandusky founds The Second Mile. It begins as a group foster home dedicated to helping troubled boys and grows into a charity dedicated to helping children with absent or dysfunctional families.January 1983 – Associated Press voters select Penn State as college football's national champion for the 1982 season.January 1987 – Associated Press voters select Penn State as college football's national champion for the 1986 season.1994 – Boy known as Victim 7 in the report meets Sandusky through The Second Mile program at about the age of 10.1994-95 – Boy known as Victim 6 meets Sandusky at a Second Mile picnic at Spring Creek Park when he is 7 or 8 years old.1995-96 – Boy known as Victim 5, meets Sandusky through The Second Mile when he is 7 or 8, in second or third grade.1996-97 – Boy known as Victim 4, at the age of 12 or 13, meets Sandusky while he is in his second year participating in The Second Mile program.1996-98 – Victim 5 is taken to the locker rooms and showers at Penn State by Sandusky when he is 8 to 10 years old.Jan. 1, 1998 – Victim 4 is listed, along with Sandusky's wife, as a member of Sandusky's family party for the 1998 Outback Bowl.1998 – Victim 6 is taken into the locker rooms and showers when he is 11 years old. When Victim 6 is dropped off at home, his hair is wet from showering with Sandusky. His mother reports the incident to the university police, who investigate.Detective Ronald Schreffler testifies that he and State College Police Department Detective Ralph Ralston, with the consent of the mother of Victim 6, eavesdrop on two conversations the mother of Victim 6 has with Sandusky. Sandusky says he has showered with other boys and Victim 6's mother tries to make Sandusky promise never to shower with a boy again but he will not. At the end of the second conversation, after Sandusky is told he cannot see Victim 6 anymore, Schreffler testifies Sandusky says, "I understand. I was wrong. I wish I could get forgiveness. I know I won't get it from you. I wish I were dead."Jerry Lauro, an investigator with the Pennsylvania Department of Public Welfare, testifies he and Schreffler interviewed Sandusky, and that Sandusky admits showering naked with Victim 6, admits to hugging Victim 6 while in the shower and admits that it was wrong.The case is closed after then-Centre County District Attorney Ray Gricar decides there will be no criminal charge.June 1999 – Sandusky retires from Penn State but still holds emeritus status.Dec. 28, 1999 – Victim 4 is listed, along with Sandusky's wife, as a member of Sandusky's family party for the 1999 Alamo Bowl.Summer 2000 – Boy known as Victim 3 meets Sandusky through The Second Mile when he is between seventh and eighth grade.Fall 2000 – A janitor named James Calhoun observes Sandusky in the showers of the Lasch Football Building with a young boy, known as Victim 8, pinned up against the wall, performing oral sex on the boy. He tells other janitorial staff immediately. Fellow Office of Physical Plant employee Ronald Petrosky cleans the showers at Lasch and sees Sandusky and the boy, who he describes as being between the ages of 11 and 13.Calhoun tells other physical plant employees what he saw, including Jay Witherite, his immediate supervisor. Witherite tells him to whom he should report the incident. Calhoun was a temporary employee and never makes a report. Victim 8's identity is unknown.March 1, 2002 – A Penn State graduate assistant enters the locker room at the Lasch Football Building. In the showers, he sees a naked boy, known as Victim 2, whose age he estimates to be 10 years old, being subjected to anal intercourse by a naked Sandusky. The graduate assistant tells his father immediately.March 2, 2002 – In the morning, the graduate assistant calls Coach Joe Paterno and goes to Paterno's home, where he reports what he has seen.March 3, 2002 – Paterno calls Tim Curley, Penn State Athletic Director to his home the next day and reports a version of what the grad assistant had said.March 2002 – Later in the month the graduate assistant is called to a meeting with Curley and Senior Vice President for Finance and Business Gary Schultz. The grad assistant reports what he has seen and Curley and Schultz say they will look into it.March 27, 2002 (approximate) – The graduate assistant hears from Curley. He is told that Sandusky's locker room keys are taken away and that the incident has been reported to The Second Mile. The graduate assistant is never questioned by university police and no other entity conducts an investigation until the graduate assistant testifies in Grand Jury in December 2010.2005-2006 – Boy known as Victim 1 says that meets Sandusky through The Second Mile at age 11 or 12.Spring 2007 – During the 2007 track season, Sandusky begins spending time with Victim 1 weekly, having him stay overnight at his residence in College Township, Pa.Spring 2008 – Termination of contact with Victim 1 occurs when he is a freshman in a Clinton County high school. After the boy's mother calls the school to report sexual assault, Sandusky is barred from the school district attended by Victim 1 from that day forward and the matter is reported to authorities as mandated by law.Early 2009 – An investigation by the Pennsylvania attorney general begins when a Clinton County, Pa. teen boy tells authorities that Sandusky has inappropriately touched him several times over a four-year period.September 2010 – Sandusky retires from day-to-day involvement with The Second Mile, saying he wants to spend more time with family and handle personal matters.Nov. 5, 2011 – Sandusky is arrested and released on $100,000 bail after being arraigned on 40 criminal counts.Nov. 7, 2011 – Pennsylvania Attorney General Linda Kelly says Paterno is not a target of the investigation into how the school handled the accusations. But she refuses to say the same for university President Graham Spanier. Curley and Schultz, who have stepped down from their positions, surrender on charges that they failed to alert police to complaints against Sandusky.Nov. 8, 2011 – Possible ninth victim of Sandusky contacts state police as calls for ouster of Paterno and Spanier grow in state and beyond. Penn State abruptly cancels Paterno's regular weekly press conference.Nov. 9, 2011 – Paterno announces he'll retire at the end of the season.

 

[CrossEyed]

Dumb question. Which victim started this investigation? How did they find out about all 8 victims? If this stuff was all kept on the hush hush until recently.

A high school kid where Sandusky was a volunteer coach went to his mom, who went to the high school, who called the police.

I thought a HS wresting coach came upon them and informed the principal and it went from there.

I don't think that coach did anything until after the fact. But I've read so much on this case I may be remembering incorrectly.

 

[bagger]

just waiting for it to come out that mccreary got the wr coaching job for keeping this quiet all this time.

 

[Reepicheep]

seems like a huge reach to connect the missing DA with this case. Guy could have been involved in dozens or hundreds of other cases that put him in the crosshairs of some bad people, no?

Hi Aaron, sure it's a reach as there is no evidence. But a DA that mysteriously goes missing as one of the biggest scandals in college sports stays quiet (for a while) would definitely raise suspicion. Maybe I've seen too many movies but that was the first thing I thought of when I heard the guy was found missing like that.J

he also had a bipolar brother who killed himself. just seems too Hollywood for that to connect to this, but no way to know for sure.who exactly would be behind disappearing this guy? Sandusky? the Penn State administration? some powerful booster?

Agree it feels like a reach. But this whole thing stinks so bad and there is some serious $$$ at stake with college football so it's hard not to wonder. It's even possible the guy disappeared himself, either out of shame of involvment or fear for his life. Who knows.

 

[CrossEyed]

"Sources" saying that Spanier will be gone by end of day.

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

But unless Paterno or University officials were putting those kids in rooms with Sandusky, I don't see a duty of care breach.

what about him and the football program/university giving Sandusky access to facilities, equipment, and whatever else that helped him prey on these kids?

 

[B-Deep]

Another good posting Chase. One thing I have been struggling with here the whole time was what was in it for Curley? Why would he lie under oath? Why wouldn't he act on what Joe and McQueary told him?

At this point, Joe is the least culpable in my mind. I do not think McQueary gave Joe the full picture. The grand jury and DA agree that both Joe and McQueary's testimony/stories do not contradict each other.

My question revolves around the 1998 incident and who at PSU knew of this investigation.

Really? Remember what McQueary saw. He saw a grown man raping a 10 year old boy. And you think he told Paterno there was just some inappropriate behavior going on? Maybe that's true, but I find that explanation incredible. How else would McQueary describe it? I think its impossible to believe that McQueary saw the rape and didn't tell Paterno the full extent. How could he not?

Would you tell your conservative 80 year old grandfather all of those gruesome details, or would you use a little more tact? Based on the coward McQueary calling his dad asking what he should do, I think he did something similar with Paterno. He told him what he saw, but in more general terms. He asked Joe what he should do. Joe should have said to call the police. Instead, Joe said he would call the AD and the school would take it from there etc.

Again, I'm not buying it. First, Paterno was 75 not 80. Second - he wasn't McQueary's grandfather. He was his boss. At the minimum, McQueary would have said, "Sandusky was having sex with a 10 year old boy." That's not a gruesome detail but it does convey what happened better than "inappropriate conduct." And its MORE than enough to put Paterno into action. Or at least it should have been.

Even if MM was vague at the beginning of the talk, at some point when he saw how Paterno was reacting, he HAD to have made it clear what happened. It was too big. Too dramatic. There's no way he brushed it aside.

And even if he didn't tell Paterno at the initial meeting (which, again, I think is completely unbelievable), there's simply no way MM didn't make it clear to the AD the next day. At a meeting that Paterno attended.

Paterno knew what happened.

Paterno was not at the meeting with McQueary and the AD. The AD did not contact McQueary for over a week. Nobody doubts McQueary gave all the details to the AD. The grand jury and DA believe what Joe said Mcqueary told him. That's why he isn't charged with perjury.

orhe was not charged because he is Joe freaking Paterno

 

[Sinn Fein]

It's not schadenfreude, it's outrage.

Yeah, nothing says "outrage" quite like childishly mocking pedophilia.

I think "Pedo State" mocks Penn State, not pedophilia it is childish, but then again, almost all mocking is childish.

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

Thanks for posting this again. But I believe it's human nature to rally around your own, especially when the criticism appears to come from national sources. Unlike you I think we should be generous with these students and give them a break for their initial reaction. If they continue to act this way in a few weeks' time, then I personally wouldn't be so forgiving.

does anyone remember the people outside the Michael Jackson trial?he was on trial for child molestation, no? Paterno isn't exactly the perp here.

 

[E-Z Glider]

It's not schadenfreude, it's outrage.

Yeah, nothing says "outrage" quite like childishly mocking pedophilia.

Don't take me out of context, #######. Was not talking about the Pedo State stuff.

Sorry, wasnt meant to refer to you, just used your post. Was referring to the imbeciles who are obviously only in this thread to get a rise out of someone.

 

[ClownCausedChaos]

"Sources" saying that Spanier will be gone by end of day.

Link? (not doubting you, just curious)

 

[Joe Bryant]

seems like a huge reach to connect the missing DA with this case. Guy could have been involved in dozens or hundreds of other cases that put him in the crosshairs of some bad people, no?

Hi Aaron, sure it's a reach as there is no evidence. But a DA that mysteriously goes missing as one of the biggest scandals in college sports stays quiet (for a while) would definitely raise suspicion. Maybe I've seen too many movies but that was the first thing I thought of when I heard the guy was found missing like that.J

he also had a bipolar brother who killed himself. just seems too Hollywood for that to connect to this, but no way to know for sure.who exactly would be behind disappearing this guy? Sandusky? the Penn State administration? some powerful booster?

Sure. We're seeing it unfold right now that lots of very powerful people have huge reasons for this not to have been made public.Again, I'm not saying there is anything there. But when a guy mysteriously disappears holding a powederkeg that could blow apart legendary careers and institutions, I don't just chalk that up to coincidence. I'm just saying quite a few people had some very serious reasons to keep the guy quiet. That's unseemly to think about but it seems naive to just dismiss it. And for all I know, every stone has been thoroughly turned over and there is excellent reason to think it is purely coincidental. I'm just commenting on the surface that I was when I saw the DA disappeared.J

 

[Sinn Fein]

But unless Paterno or University officials were putting those kids in rooms with Sandusky, I don't see a duty of care breach.

what about him and the football program/university giving Sandusky access to facilities, equipment, and whatever else that helped him prey on these kids?

I think you still have a nexus issue to say that Penn State's actions caused the abuse. It helps that Penn State had institutional knowledge that Sandusky, at best, behaved inappropriately with young kids on Penn State property.

 

[Joe Summer]

Based on the coward McQueary calling his dad asking what he should do, I think he did something similar with Paterno. He told him what he saw, but in more general terms. He asked Joe what he should do. Joe should have said to call the police. Instead, Joe said he would call the AD and the school would take it from there etc.

I'm not going to call McQueary a coward for running away from Sandusky. He panicked in the middle of a traumatic moment. I can't justify it but I can understand it.However, he absolutely IS a coward for staying silent for 7+ years afterwards -- even as he saw Sandusky coming and going on campus, using the facilities, bringing little kids to bowl games, etc. He was the ONLY person who really knew what happened in that shower, and he did as close to nothing about it as he possibly could.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Thanks for posting this again. But I believe it's human nature to rally around your own, especially when the criticism appears to come from national sources. Unlike you I think we should be generous with these students and give them a break for their initial reaction. If they continue to act this way in a few weeks' time, then I personally wouldn't be so forgiving.

does anyone remember the people outside the Michael Jackson trial?he was on trial for child molestation, no? Paterno isn't exactly the perp here.

Sure. Sandusky is the only guy accused of a crime. But do think Paterno is clean here?

J

 

[Socrates11]

Editorial: "How Much Did Joe Paterno Know About 1998 Incident?"

By the way, this article was published SEVEN MONTHS AGO.

Allegations of improper conduct with an underage male first surfaced in 1998, while Sandusky was still employed by Penn State. That incident allegedly occurred in a shower at Penn State's on-campus football facility. No charges were filed.

Sandusky retired the next year, in 1999. He was 55, prime age for a coach. Odd, to say the least - especially with Joe Paterno thought even then to be ready to quit and Sandusky a likely, openly-discussed successor.

t seems logical to ask: What did Paterno know, and when did he know it? What did Penn State's administration know, and when did they know it?

Best-case scenario: Charges are never brought, and Sandusky walks away with his reputation permanently scarred. The rumors, the jokes, the sideways glances - they won't ever stop. Paterno and Penn State do the great escape.

Worst-case scenario: Sandusky is charged. Then it seems reasonable to wonder: Did Penn State not make an issue of Sandusky's alleged behavior in 1998 in exchange for him walking away from the program at an age premature for most coaches? Did Penn State's considerable influence help get Sandusky off the hook?

Don't kid yourself. That could happen. Don't underestimate the power of Paterno and Penn State in central Pennsylvania when it comes to politicians, the police and the media.

In 1999, Penn State was rid of Sandusky. His rep was unblemished, which allowed him to continue running a charitable foundation that gave him access to underage males. To be a volunteer assistant with a high school football team, thus gaining access to underage males.

If Paterno and Penn State knew, but didn't act, instead facilitating Sandusky's untroubled retirement - are Paterno and Penn State responsible for untoward acts since committed by Sandusky?

Wow. Damning.Paterno needs to be gone, now.

 

[JZilla]

It's not schadenfreude, it's outrage.

Yeah, nothing says "outrage" quite like childishly mocking pedophilia.

Don't take me out of context, #######. Was not talking about the Pedo State stuff.

Sorry, wasnt meant to refer to you, just used your post. Was referring to the imbeciles who are obviously only in this thread to get a rise out of someone.

Cool. I think acting like the people who are pissed about this are actually enjoying it, by calling it "schadenfreude", is equally toolish.Tressel, now that was schadenfreude

 

[The Future Champs]

lots of rumors on the PSU messageboard that the next shoe to drop is Sandusky's (and the PSU admin) role in the death of Ray Gricar (the DA that investigated the 1998 incident)..

probably made up, but you never know

I would expect this to start to get more attention. http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/sandusky-investigator-center-mystery/story?id=14905668#.TrnPW0OIk8k

It does not add up that a DA would see all this and then not move forward with the process. You legal guys please chime in as to what the DA does there and how he does it. But no charges and a mysteriously missing DA does not sound good either.

J

The DA's brother had killed himself in a similar fashion 9 years earlier. The brother had suffered from bipolar disorder, and it has been speculated that the DA suffered from something similar.Nonetheless, it's very troubling that the DA had done web searches on how to erase a hard drive, and a few weeks later his erased hard drive was found in the river.

This is pure speculation. The DA in the 1998 case goes missing in 2005, and his hard drive from his laptop turns up damaged beyond all repair. He searched from his home two weeks before he went missing for information on how to destroy hard drives. Fill in the missing pieces that somehow wraps this into the Sandusky scandal.

Something on the HD that linked him back to a cover-up in '99? Maybe he got paid off? Then couldn't live with it anymore, and decided to trash the evidence and commit suicide? Or somewhere along the line more allegations came up, and he was getting more heat from Sandusky, and decided to cover up any connection and just disappear? So his kids can keep the $ and he can live? Just a couple ideas off the top of my head.I agree it's a stretch, and there are so many different kinds of crazy dealings that a DA can end up neck-deep in. But there is some serious $$$ at stake in college football, this is no joke.

So he sits on the evidence for seven years, and then decides to disappear? But he also decides the evidence THAT HE LEFT ON HIS LAPTOP FOR SEVEN YEARS is now too dangerous to possess once he goes into hiding? There's a whole lot of fail in that reasoning.

 

[Joe Bryant]

It's not schadenfreude, it's outrage.

Yeah, nothing says "outrage" quite like childishly mocking pedophilia.

I think "Pedo State" mocks Penn State, not pedophilia it is childish, but then again, almost all mocking is childish.

Either way, please let's not have childish mocking or name calling in this thread.Thanks.J

 

[whoknew]

Another good posting Chase. One thing I have been struggling with here the whole time was what was in it for Curley? Why would he lie under oath? Why wouldn't he act on what Joe and McQueary told him?

At this point, Joe is the least culpable in my mind. I do not think McQueary gave Joe the full picture. The grand jury and DA agree that both Joe and McQueary's testimony/stories do not contradict each other.

My question revolves around the 1998 incident and who at PSU knew of this investigation.

Really? Remember what McQueary saw. He saw a grown man raping a 10 year old boy. And you think he told Paterno there was just some inappropriate behavior going on? Maybe that's true, but I find that explanation incredible. How else would McQueary describe it? I think its impossible to believe that McQueary saw the rape and didn't tell Paterno the full extent. How could he not?

Would you tell your conservative 80 year old grandfather all of those gruesome details, or would you use a little more tact? Based on the coward McQueary calling his dad asking what he should do, I think he did something similar with Paterno. He told him what he saw, but in more general terms. He asked Joe what he should do. Joe should have said to call the police. Instead, Joe said he would call the AD and the school would take it from there etc.

Again, I'm not buying it. First, Paterno was 75 not 80. Second - he wasn't McQueary's grandfather. He was his boss. At the minimum, McQueary would have said, "Sandusky was having sex with a 10 year old boy." That's not a gruesome detail but it does convey what happened better than "inappropriate conduct." And its MORE than enough to put Paterno into action. Or at least it should have been.

Even if MM was vague at the beginning of the talk, at some point when he saw how Paterno was reacting, he HAD to have made it clear what happened. It was too big. Too dramatic. There's no way he brushed it aside.

And even if he didn't tell Paterno at the initial meeting (which, again, I think is completely unbelievable), there's simply no way MM didn't make it clear to the AD the next day. At a meeting that Paterno attended.

Paterno knew what happened.

Paterno was not at the meeting with McQueary and the AD. The AD did not contact McQueary for over a week. Nobody doubts McQueary gave all the details to the AD. The grand jury and DA believe what Joe said Mcqueary told him. That's why he isn't charged with perjury.

That's right. Paterno went to the AD himself. I messed that up.I still don't believe that he did not know the extent of what happened.

 

[CrossEyed]

"Sources" saying that Spanier will be gone by end of day.

Link? (not doubting you, just curious)

Sorry, radio report.

 

[E-Z Glider]

just waiting for it to come out that mccreary got the wr coaching job for keeping this quiet all this time.

I really dont think this is the case. He was born and raised in State College PA. He was the star QB at State College High. He was essentially an assistant coach for all 5 years he was on the sidelines, always had the headphones on. Even beck then they talked about his coaching future. He has been Joe's eyes and ears for the past 10 years. He has been running the sidelines for the past 3-4 years. Maybe all this happened because of the "dirt" he had, but I certainly dont think its a given.

 

[Chase Stuart]

But unless Paterno or University officials were putting those kids in rooms with Sandusky, I don't see a duty of care breach.

what about him and the football program/university giving Sandusky access to facilities, equipment, and whatever else that helped him prey on these kids?

I think you still have a nexus issue to say that Penn State's actions caused the abuse. It helps that Penn State had institutional knowledge that Sandusky, at best, behaved inappropriately with young kids on Penn State property.

Right. Despite popular perception, it's not easy to just sue anyone for anything.

 

[ClownCausedChaos]

"Sources" saying that Spanier will be gone by end of day.

Link? (not doubting you, just curious)

Sorry, radio report.

No prob.

 

[Reepicheep]

Editorial: "How Much Did Joe Paterno Know About 1998 Incident?"

By the way, this article was published SEVEN MONTHS AGO.

Allegations of improper conduct with an underage male first surfaced in 1998, while Sandusky was still employed by Penn State. That incident allegedly occurred in a shower at Penn State's on-campus football facility. No charges were filed.

Sandusky retired the next year, in 1999. He was 55, prime age for a coach. Odd, to say the least - especially with Joe Paterno thought even then to be ready to quit and Sandusky a likely, openly-discussed successor.

t seems logical to ask: What did Paterno know, and when did he know it? What did Penn State's administration know, and when did they know it?

Best-case scenario: Charges are never brought, and Sandusky walks away with his reputation permanently scarred. The rumors, the jokes, the sideways glances - they won't ever stop. Paterno and Penn State do the great escape.

Worst-case scenario: Sandusky is charged. Then it seems reasonable to wonder: Did Penn State not make an issue of Sandusky's alleged behavior in 1998 in exchange for him walking away from the program at an age premature for most coaches? Did Penn State's considerable influence help get Sandusky off the hook?

Don't kid yourself. That could happen. Don't underestimate the power of Paterno and Penn State in central Pennsylvania when it comes to politicians, the police and the media.

In 1999, Penn State was rid of Sandusky. His rep was unblemished, which allowed him to continue running a charitable foundation that gave him access to underage males. To be a volunteer assistant with a high school football team, thus gaining access to underage males.

If Paterno and Penn State knew, but didn't act, instead facilitating Sandusky's untroubled retirement - are Paterno and Penn State responsible for untoward acts since committed by Sandusky?

Wow. Damning.Paterno needs to be gone, now.

Very interesting read.

 

[simey]

seems like a huge reach to connect the missing DA with this case. Guy could have been involved in dozens or hundreds of other cases that put him in the crosshairs of some bad people, no?

Absolutely, and his case has been investigated at length and even been featured on shows like Dateline, 48 hours Mystery, etc. I remember he was working on a huge heroin case when he went missing.

 

[RUSF18]

seems like a huge reach to connect the missing DA with this case. Guy could have been involved in dozens or hundreds of other cases that put him in the crosshairs of some bad people, no?

Hi Aaron, sure it's a reach as there is no evidence. But a DA that mysteriously goes missing as one of the biggest scandals in college sports stays quiet (for a while) would definitely raise suspicion. Maybe I've seen too many movies but that was the first thing I thought of when I heard the guy was found missing like that.J

he also had a bipolar brother who killed himself. just seems too Hollywood for that to connect to this, but no way to know for sure.who exactly would be behind disappearing this guy? Sandusky? the Penn State administration? some powerful booster?

Sure. We're seeing it unfold right now that lots of very powerful people have huge reasons for this not to have been made public.Again, I'm not saying there is anything there. But when a guy mysteriously disappears holding a powederkeg that could blow apart legendary careers and institutions, I don't just chalk that up to coincidence. I'm just saying quite a few people had some very serious reasons to keep the guy quiet. That's unseemly to think about but it seems naive to just dismiss it. And for all I know, every stone has been thoroughly turned over and there is excellent reason to think it is purely coincidental. I'm just commenting on the surface that I was when I saw the DA disappeared.J

The 1998 investigation that didn't produce charges wasn't a secret (at least beyond the general public). He already chose not to pursue charges...what does killing him accomplish?

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

Sure. Sandusky is the only guy accused of a crime. But do think Paterno is clean here?J

No, I don't think he is clean. He certainly deserves some blame for not doing more here. I have been saying that since this thread started.But I also don't find it surprising that college students there would be putting their support behind him given what we see from other celebrities who commit much worse acts.

 

[E-Z Glider]

It's not schadenfreude, it's outrage.

Yeah, nothing says "outrage" quite like childishly mocking pedophilia.

Don't take me out of context, #######. Was not talking about the Pedo State stuff.

Sorry, wasnt meant to refer to you, just used your post. Was referring to the imbeciles who are obviously only in this thread to get a rise out of someone.

Cool. I think acting like the people who are pissed about this are actually enjoying it, by calling it "schadenfreude", is equally toolish.Tressel, now that was schadenfreude

I think 93% of the posters (including you) are both pissed and outraged at the whole situation. I think 5% of the posters here are truly enjoying the downfall of PSU and have little concern about the people involved. I think 2% of the posters here are just plain idiots.

 

[CrossEyed]

seems like a huge reach to connect the missing DA with this case. Guy could have been involved in dozens or hundreds of other cases that put him in the crosshairs of some bad people, no?

Hi Aaron, sure it's a reach as there is no evidence. But a DA that mysteriously goes missing as one of the biggest scandals in college sports stays quiet (for a while) would definitely raise suspicion. Maybe I've seen too many movies but that was the first thing I thought of when I heard the guy was found missing like that.J

he also had a bipolar brother who killed himself. just seems too Hollywood for that to connect to this, but no way to know for sure.who exactly would be behind disappearing this guy? Sandusky? the Penn State administration? some powerful booster?

Sure. We're seeing it unfold right now that lots of very powerful people have huge reasons for this not to have been made public.Again, I'm not saying there is anything there. But when a guy mysteriously disappears holding a powederkeg that could blow apart legendary careers and institutions, I don't just chalk that up to coincidence. I'm just saying quite a few people had some very serious reasons to keep the guy quiet. That's unseemly to think about but it seems naive to just dismiss it. And for all I know, every stone has been thoroughly turned over and there is excellent reason to think it is purely coincidental. I'm just commenting on the surface that I was when I saw the DA disappeared.J

The 1998 investigation that didn't produce charges wasn't a secret (at least beyond the general public). He already chose not to pursue charges...what does killing him accomplish?

Maybe more info kept coming to light. Who knows? What we do know is that there was info on his computer that he felt he needed to destroy. Maybe someone threatened his family if the information ever became public. All speculation.

 

[=Smackdown=]

Don't know which is worse?

The fact that the animal is out on bail.

or

That everyone involved is still there - how can they possibly let him lead his team out onto the field on Saturday?

 

[Joe Summer]

But unless Paterno or University officials were putting those kids in rooms with Sandusky, I don't see a duty of care breach.

Penn State and/or Paterno continued to provide Sandusky with tickets to games, where he was seen with little boys. After at least one of these games, Sandusky raped a little boy in his hotel room.You don't think that's just a bit of a breach?

 

[Reepicheep]

lots of rumors on the PSU messageboard that the next shoe to drop is Sandusky's (and the PSU admin) role in the death of Ray Gricar (the DA that investigated the 1998 incident)..

probably made up, but you never know

I would expect this to start to get more attention. http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/sandusky-investigator-center-mystery/story?id=14905668#.TrnPW0OIk8k

It does not add up that a DA would see all this and then not move forward with the process. You legal guys please chime in as to what the DA does there and how he does it. But no charges and a mysteriously missing DA does not sound good either.

J

The DA's brother had killed himself in a similar fashion 9 years earlier. The brother had suffered from bipolar disorder, and it has been speculated that the DA suffered from something similar.Nonetheless, it's very troubling that the DA had done web searches on how to erase a hard drive, and a few weeks later his erased hard drive was found in the river.

This is pure speculation. The DA in the 1998 case goes missing in 2005, and his hard drive from his laptop turns up damaged beyond all repair. He searched from his home two weeks before he went missing for information on how to destroy hard drives. Fill in the missing pieces that somehow wraps this into the Sandusky scandal.

Something on the HD that linked him back to a cover-up in '99? Maybe he got paid off? Then couldn't live with it anymore, and decided to trash the evidence and commit suicide? Or somewhere along the line more allegations came up, and he was getting more heat from Sandusky, and decided to cover up any connection and just disappear? So his kids can keep the $ and he can live? Just a couple ideas off the top of my head.I agree it's a stretch, and there are so many different kinds of crazy dealings that a DA can end up neck-deep in. But there is some serious $$$ at stake in college football, this is no joke.

So he sits on the evidence for seven years, and then decides to disappear? But he also decides the evidence THAT HE LEFT ON HIS LAPTOP FOR SEVEN YEARS is now too dangerous to possess once he goes into hiding? There's a whole lot of fail in that reasoning.

Good grief, I acknowledged it's a stretch, calm down. It didn't have to be on a specific laptop for 7 years. We know Sandusky's crimes didn't stop in '99, there could have easily been continued contact/connection/leads/cover-up/whatever on this whole deal through 2005.

 

[johnnycakes]

Attorneys out there- if you are the parents of one of the molested children, whom could you justifiably sue in this situation? Can you sue the University, or Paterno? (I realize that technically you can sue anybody, but I'm talking about suing with reasonable expectations of some kind of award.)

Unless there's a statute to sue under -- and I have no idea if there is -- I think you're left with common law negligence.One of the elements of negligence is duty of care; it would be hard to think what duty of care Paterno would owe any of the victims (legally speaking). Same goes for the University. If I'm building you a house, I owe you a duty of care not to negligently build it. If I'm driving my car next to you, I owe you a duty of care to drive safely.But unless Paterno or University officials were putting those kids in rooms with Sandusky, I don't see a duty of care breach.

Oh, come on. Suppose you're a hungry lawyer at a big-time Philadelphia law firm that has just landed all 8 of these victims as clients. Are you really going to go to the senior partner with this? Not if you want to make partner for yourself, you won't. off the top of my head, I would present something more along the lines of Penn State having created an environment that protected personnel who were key players in its most valuable asset - it's lucrative football program. I would find a way to make this an institutional problem, not a Joe Paterno or Jerry Sandusky problem. But a problem that was allowed to exist because of the goals and the culture of the institution. I would then argue that substantial funding for PSU comes from the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania... that, yes, technically it is "state-related", meaning independent control, rather than state control, but the money trail leads straight to the Commonwealth jackpot. perhpas file suit against the University, then... if a big enough suit is won, maybe they have to go to the Commonwealth to pay it... But I cannot really think of not at least taking a shot at the Commonwealth directly.... perhaps naming PSU and the Commonwealth as co-defendants, doing lots of research and creative thinking in order to make a decent argument for a jury to sort out.

 

[E-Z Glider]

"Sources" saying that Spanier will be gone by end of day.

Link? (not doubting you, just curious)

Sorry, radio report.

No prob.

Penn State President Graham Spanier will quit or be fired today in wake of Sandusky charges, source says

 

[ClownCausedChaos]

It's not schadenfreude, it's outrage.

Yeah, nothing says "outrage" quite like childishly mocking pedophilia.

Don't take me out of context, #######. Was not talking about the Pedo State stuff.

Sorry, wasnt meant to refer to you, just used your post. Was referring to the imbeciles who are obviously only in this thread to get a rise out of someone.

Cool. I think acting like the people who are pissed about this are actually enjoying it, by calling it "schadenfreude", is equally toolish.Tressel, now that was schadenfreude

I think 93% of the posters (including you) are both pissed and outraged at the whole situation. I think 5% of the posters here are truly enjoying the downfall of PSU and have little concern about the people involved. I think 2% of the posters here are just plain idiots.

Ooo!! Ooo!! Ooo!! Which one am I?? Which one am I??

 

[Tin Cup]

Penn State alumnus and football season ticket holder here.

Like many others, I've been working through a series of emotions and reactions this week ranging from disbelief to disappointmenent to anger to profound sadness.

I've mostly watched rather than contributed to this thread over the past few days, but after watching what I consider to be repeated "piling on" I just wanted to add my perspective as a potential counterbalance to what appears to be a "lynch mob" mentality.

As a parent, my heart breaks for the victims (known and unknown) of the monster that is Jerry Sandusky. I wish to god that Joe (or Mike or Mike's dad or Tim or Gary or Graham or the janitor or the janitor's boss or the people at Second Mile) would have done more anywhere along the way to stop this. I'd like to think that, in any of their positions, I might have made a different (and better) choice.

As an alumnus, it is devastating to learn that our leaders and role models acted so negligently. It is equally difficult to watch the university I hold so dearly and think so highly of shaken to its' foundation like this. To see the nightly news emanating from Happy Valley under such dark circumstances is surreal.

Having said all that (and in no way attempting to defend the inexcusable inaction of the individuals mentioned above), I am also saddened to see the venom and "black-and-white" rhetoric being bandied about by the self-proclaimed moral police, the torch-and-pitchfork crowd, and the "holier-than-thou" bunch. Note: I fully realize that child abuse IS black-and-white. People (and their actions and motivations and thought process) aren't.

Joe Paterno has done an awful lot of good in his life, for Penn State and for the young men who passed through his football program and who he helped mentor and instill life values in. Look at how hard this has been and how this has affected people like Matt Millen, Todd Blackledge, Lavar Arrington, etc.

Joe has also done (intentionally or unintentionally) some unimaginable harm in whatever role he had in this (more by actions not taken than taken, based on the facts I've seen so far).

To see him being seemingly vilified as evil incarnate is difficult. I fully get the emotion of this situation and the need (and call) for justice and consequences.

I think his resignation is appropriate (and overdue). I have mixed feelings about the game Saturday and whether he should or should not be on the sideline and whether I want him to be there or not.

Others will surely disagree with me, but I'm not sure he (or anyone other than Sandusky) deserves this circus. The way many are treating Joe does NOTHING to help anyone or begin the healing process. Now that he is stepping aside, the pain and questions and problems will long endure. Where do we turn next?

 

[simey]

Maybe more info kept coming to light. Who knows? What we do know is that there was info on his computer that he felt he needed to destroy. Maybe someone threatened his family if the information ever became public. All speculation.

or perhaps he was killed because he was prosecuting the biggest heroin bust in the history of pennsylvania?

 

[Mr. Pickles]

how can they possibly let him lead his team out onto the field on Saturday?

No way they can, unless they're okay with looking completely out of touch and defiant. Lots of eyes on Penn State as an institution here. This is way beyond football.

 

[culdeus]

Penn State alumnus and football season ticket holder here.Like many others, I've been working through a series of emotions and reactions this week ranging from disbelief to disappointmenent to anger to profound sadness.I've mostly watched rather than contributed to this thread over the past few days, but after watching what I consider to be repeated "piling on" I just wanted to add my perspective as a potential counterbalance to what appears to be a "lynch mob" mentality.As a parent, my heart breaks for the victims (known and unknown) of the monster that is Jerry Sandusky. I wish to god that Joe (or Mike or Mike's dad or Tim or Gary or Graham or the janitor or the janitor's boss or the people at Second Mile) would have done more anywhere along the way to stop this. I'd like to think that, in any of their positions, I might have made a different (and better) choice.As an alumnus, it is devastating to learn that our leaders and role models acted so negligently. It is equally difficult to watch the university I hold so dearly and think so highly of shaken to its' foundation like this. To see the nightly news emanating from Happy Valley under such dark circumstances is surreal.Having said all that (and in no way attempting to defend the inexcusable inaction of the individuals mentioned above), I am also saddened to see the venom and "black-and-white" rhetoric being bandied about by the self-proclaimed moral police, the torch-and-pitchfork crowd, and the "holier-than-though" bunch. Note: I fully realize that child abuse IS black-and-white. People (and their actions and motivations and thought process) aren't.Joe Paterno has done an awful lot of good in his life, for Penn State and for the young men who passed through his football program and who he helped mentor and instill life values in. Look at how hard this has been and how this has affected people like Matt Millen, Todd Blackledge, Lavar Arrington, etc.Joe has also done (intentionally or unintentionally) some unimaginable harm in whatever role he had in this (more by actions taken than not taken, based on the facts I've seen so far).To see him being seemingly vilified as evil incarnate is difficult. I fully get the emotion of this situation and the need (and call) for justice and consequences.I think his resignation is appropriate (and overdue). I have mixed feelings about the game Saturday and whether he should or should not be on the sideline and whether I want him to be there or not.Others will surely disagree with me, but I'm not sure he (or anyone other than Sandusky) deserves this circus. The way many are treating Joe does NOTHING to help anyone or begin the healing process. Now that he is stepping aside, the pain and questions and problems will long endure. Where do we turn next?

Are you going to continue to be a season ticket holder/donor to the program?

 

[Sconch]

Maybe more info kept coming to light. Who knows? What we do know is that there was info on his computer that he felt he needed to destroy. Maybe someone threatened his family if the information ever became public. All speculation.

or perhaps he was killed because he was prosecuting the biggest heroin bust in the history of pennsylvania?

Any chance that members of the Penn State athletic department were dealing heroin?

 

[Reepicheep]

Maybe more info kept coming to light. Who knows? What we do know is that there was info on his computer that he felt he needed to destroy. Maybe someone threatened his family if the information ever became public. All speculation.

or perhaps he was killed because he was prosecuting the biggest heroin bust in the history of pennsylvania?

Everyone agrees there's lots of crazy stuff a DA can be neck-deep in. It is unlikely that his disappearance had anything to do with this. But I don't see how you can just rule it out.

 

[E-Z Glider]

It's not schadenfreude, it's outrage.

Yeah, nothing says "outrage" quite like childishly mocking pedophilia.

Don't take me out of context, #######. Was not talking about the Pedo State stuff.

Sorry, wasnt meant to refer to you, just used your post. Was referring to the imbeciles who are obviously only in this thread to get a rise out of someone.

Cool. I think acting like the people who are pissed about this are actually enjoying it, by calling it "schadenfreude", is equally toolish.Tressel, now that was schadenfreude

I think 93% of the posters (including you) are both pissed and outraged at the whole situation. I think 5% of the posters here are truly enjoying the downfall of PSU and have little concern about the people involved. I think 2% of the posters here are just plain idiots.

Ooo!! Ooo!! Ooo!! Which one am I?? Which one am I??

My link

 

[The Future Champs]

lots of rumors on the PSU messageboard that the next shoe to drop is Sandusky's (and the PSU admin) role in the death of Ray Gricar (the DA that investigated the 1998 incident)..

probably made up, but you never know

I would expect this to start to get more attention. http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/sandusky-investigator-center-mystery/story?id=14905668#.TrnPW0OIk8k

It does not add up that a DA would see all this and then not move forward with the process. You legal guys please chime in as to what the DA does there and how he does it. But no charges and a mysteriously missing DA does not sound good either.

J

The DA's brother had killed himself in a similar fashion 9 years earlier. The brother had suffered from bipolar disorder, and it has been speculated that the DA suffered from something similar.Nonetheless, it's very troubling that the DA had done web searches on how to erase a hard drive, and a few weeks later his erased hard drive was found in the river.

This is pure speculation. The DA in the 1998 case goes missing in 2005, and his hard drive from his laptop turns up damaged beyond all repair. He searched from his home two weeks before he went missing for information on how to destroy hard drives. Fill in the missing pieces that somehow wraps this into the Sandusky scandal.

Something on the HD that linked him back to a cover-up in '99? Maybe he got paid off? Then couldn't live with it anymore, and decided to trash the evidence and commit suicide? Or somewhere along the line more allegations came up, and he was getting more heat from Sandusky, and decided to cover up any connection and just disappear? So his kids can keep the $ and he can live? Just a couple ideas off the top of my head.I agree it's a stretch, and there are so many different kinds of crazy dealings that a DA can end up neck-deep in. But there is some serious $$$ at stake in college football, this is no joke.

So he sits on the evidence for seven years, and then decides to disappear? But he also decides the evidence THAT HE LEFT ON HIS LAPTOP FOR SEVEN YEARS is now too dangerous to possess once he goes into hiding? There's a whole lot of fail in that reasoning.

Good grief, I acknowledged it's a stretch, calm down. It didn't have to be on a specific laptop for 7 years. We know Sandusky's crimes didn't stop in '99, there could have easily been continued contact/connection/leads/cover-up/whatever on this whole deal through 2005.

So why would he destroy the evidence if he was going into hiding, after sitting on it for 7 years? Don't you think he would take it with him as a potential bargaining chip? And, to address Crosseyed's speculation, why would he search for info on destroying hard drives two weeks before he disappeared, if in fact he was murdered to hush him up? He knew he was going to be murdered, and that the murderer would destroy his hard drive? Fail.

 

[Ray Karpis]

Relevant portions of a press release from Sandusky's retirement circa 1998:

Sandusky To Retire

STATE COLLEGE, Pa., July 1 -- Long-time defensive coordinator Jerry Sandusky, the senior member of Coach Joe Paterno's Penn State staff, will retire following the 1999 football season, athletic director Tim Curley announced today.

Curley said that Sandusky--the founder of The Second Mile, a charitable organization that addresses the welfare of children--will continue to offer his services on a volunteer basis to the athletic department's Lifeskills and Outreach programs.

"Football coaching has been a wonderful career because it has brought me into contact with so many exceptional young people," Sandusky said. "The opportunity to impact the lives of the many student-athletes who've come through the program has been one of the great rewards for me. Penn State football is special because of the sense of family established by those associated with the program today and those players, coaches and staff who've been part of it over the years.

"Retiring as an active coach will permit me to devote more time to The Second Mile. As the organization has grown, the demands for my hands-on involvement have increased dramatically. The staff has done a marvelous job of building the organization, which now touches more than 150,000 children annually through eight different programs. I'm anxious to devote my full-time energies to expanding the reach and influence of The Second Mile in a day and age when more and more kids seem to be at risk.

"I'm looking forward to the 1999 season," Sanduky said. "We have an opportunity to be a good football team if our players can continue to develop their athletic skills and to maintain their focus on the things that are important to team success. I won't permit my personal situation to be a distraction in any fashion."

Sandusky said he elected to make the announcement prior to the season to take advantage of a retirement option available to long-time Penn State employees only for a limited time.

"We can't say enough about what he has brought to the football program as an exceptional coach, a fine player and a person of great character and integrity," head coach Joe Paterno said. "The success that the Nittany Lions have enjoyed over the last three decades is due in large part to the contribution of people on our coaching staff like Jerry Sandusky Jerry always has dreamed big dreams and, as he's proven with The Second Mile, he's someone who can turn hope into reality."

"Jerry Sandusky has been an integral part of Penn State since his days as an undergraduate," Curley said. "He is someone who has set a tone in his professional and personal life that is an inspiration to everyone inside and outside the program. His success as a coach is authenticated by the numerous All-America players he has developed over three decades. His achievement as a human being is splendidly demonstrated by the thousands of youngsters he touches annually through The Second Mile.

"I'm pleased that following the conclusion of his coaching career, Jerry has agreed to continue a close relationship with the athletic department by volunteeering his leadership skills to assist the continuing development of our current Nagle Champs Lifeskills and Continuing Outreach programs."

Sandusky is married to the former Dorothy Gross of Chattanooga, Tenn. They have six children-five boys and a girl. Ray, Kara and E.J., the starting center for the 1992 Nittany Lions and head coach at Albright College, are Penn State graduates.

Sandusky is the author of "Developing Linebackers, The Penn State Way". Proceeds of the book benefit The Second Mile.

Aside from all the "touching kids" language thrown around, the bolded really stands out to me.How much you want to bet this special limited-time-only retirement option only popped up after he was investigated for showering with Victim 6.

 

[E-Z Glider]

50YardBard Conor Nelson This is from a very reliable source: Graham Spanier was the one who called the New York Times to make false claims about Joe's status. 50YardBard Conor Nelson I'm hearing that Graham Spanier has been completely stripped of his presidential powers and gagged by the BOT. The prez's office is a shell.

 

[B-Deep]

But unless Paterno or University officials were putting those kids in rooms with Sandusky, I don't see a duty of care breach.

what about him and the football program/university giving Sandusky access to facilities, equipment, and whatever else that helped him prey on these kids?

I think you still have a nexus issue to say that Penn State's actions caused the abuse. It helps that Penn State had institutional knowledge that Sandusky, at best, behaved inappropriately with young kids on Penn State property.

Right. Despite popular perception, it's not easy to just sue anyone for anything.

If you say that again i swear to raptor jesus i will sue you

 

[JZilla]

Joe has also done (intentionally or unintentionally) some unimaginable harm in whatever role he had in this (more by actions taken than not taken, based on the facts I've seen so far).To see him being seemingly vilified as evil incarnate is difficult. I fully get the emotion of this situation and the need (and call) for justice and consequences.I think his resignation is appropriate (and overdue). I have mixed feelings about the game Saturday and whether he should or should not be on the sideline and whether I want him to be there or not.Others will surely disagree with me, but I'm not sure he (or anyone other than Sandusky) deserves this circus. The way many are treating Joe does NOTHING to help anyone or begin the healing process. Now that he is stepping aside, the pain and questions and problems will long endure. Where do we turn next?

If it's true that Spanier is out, Joe's the only one left who has not yet been held accountable for his role in this cover-upI'll keep waving my pitchfork around until that happens, and I can't understand why you and other Penn State alums would notYou don't get a free pass for something as horrible on the human scale as this, I don't care how many tackle football games you've won

 

[Brock Middlebrook]

Attorneys out there- if you are the parents of one of the molested children, whom could you justifiably sue in this situation? Can you sue the University, or Paterno? (I realize that technically you can sue anybody, but I'm talking about suing with reasonable expectations of some kind of award.)

If you can sue a business if you slip on their sidewalk....