Jerry Sandusky accused of child molestation (2 Viewers)

[The_Man]

Sick of people trying to find excuses.

this is a normal reaction, but some people are interested in understanding how good people could let something like this happen. it's not making excuses. it's understanding behavior and is really one of the best ways to prevent similar situations in the future.

I've spent a lot of time thinking about this.There's absolutely no grey area when it comes to right and wrong. If this was a TV show, and Jack Bauer or whatever TV good guy heard about this, his next phone call is obviously to the cops. No doubt about right/wrong.But I do understand the great burden a Paterno must have felt. You kind of have to feel like you're playing god. With one phone call, you ruin your good friend's life. And not just ruin -- really, really, really ruin. You send his reputation down to the tubes and send this man to prison for the rest of his life. That's kind of a 'whoa' moment. I think it's probably easier to not report to the police a murder than a child rape, as you can probably talk yourself into circles about some murders (the victim was a scumbag, the murderer didn't mean for it to happen, it was a one time thing, etc.). There's absolutely no grey area when it comes to child rape. I get that. I just try to think how I'd feel if someone came to me and told me my best friend was doing such a thing. It definitely takes guts to send your good friend to hell for the rest of their lives. It's the right thing to do, no question. But it's certainly not the easy thing to do. And if I was ever related to such a victim, I'd be livid if anyone tried to protect such a monster. But I think we've been trained to try to avoid the tough questions. I can see a lot of people thinking "why me? Why am I the one that has to ruin my friend's life? Why am I the one that has to make this call?" Again, not really sure where I'm going with this, just something I've been thinking about. I hope that I would realize that I really wouldn't have any choice in the matter and would inform the authorities immediately. But I don't think it would be easy even for a second.(For whatever it's worth, it would be much easier for me to act as McQueary than as JoePa. In the heat of the moment, I don't think I'd have even a second's thought about stopping Sandusky. Maybe it would be the emotion.)

Appreciate the honesty here. Ive been thinking about the same thing. With the benefit of hindsight, of course Id like to think that I would make the right decision. I too have young kids and think of myself as having high moral character. But I keep on putting myself in McQueary's shoes at the age of 22 and think to myself - what would I have done? After all, I was hardly a bastion of wisdom at 22.That said, given the heinous nature of the crime witnessed, I think we all agree that he should have notified the authorities. Then I ask myself, what if a lesser crime was committed that wasnt quite as heinous? What if Sandusky was caught looking at child porn on a PC? What if he was caught stealing supplies from the Locker Room? Does a person have the same moral obligation to call the authorities, or would telling his superiors suffice?To be clear, Im not trying to justify anyones actions. Like Chase and Aaron said, this issue is complex and there is a moral question about how much a person is required to do to fulfill his civic and ethical responsibilities.

Who you really are is what you do when nobody is looking. Or at least when you think nobody is looking. When Paterno, McQueary, Curley, etc. thought nobody was looking they put the university, the football program, and their own self-interests above the most vulnerable young victims.Sick of people trying to find excuses.

Last night I was walking my dog in the pouring rain and cold, and she squatted to drop a deuce along a row of bushes next to the vacant lot where all the neighborhood kids play. And I didn't have a bag, so I finished the walk, came home, then grabbed a bag and went back out in the rain - when all I wanted to do was watch football - to pick up the deuce, because I could envision some kid playing out there and stepping in what my dog left behind. And then, out of the blue, this whole situation hit me and sickened me. I felt bad enough about potentially being responsible for a kid getting his shoes in crap to do something about it. What kind of man walks in on a scene of unspeakable abuse and turns his back on that kid? What kind of men make it possible for such horror to be visited upon other innocent victims?I'm not saying, like some others have, that they would have rushed into the shower and thrown Sandusky off the kid. It would have been a moment of confusion and panic. But after you went home, how do you not call 911?If anyone ends up offing himself from this, I could see it being McQueary, not Sandusky. Sandusky knows what he is, and can seemingly live with it - or else he would have killed himself long ago. But McQueary has to live with the knowledge that when his character was tested - when it came to truly define what kind of man he is - he came up profoundly short. It seems that his testimony is now key to nailing the higher-ups for perjury. So I hope he redeems himself a little and makes them pay. But it wouldn't surprise me much if he suddenly lawyers up and refuses to testify any further until he's guaranteed immunity.

 

[optionmaven]

I'm sure its been stated on previous pages, but what a p$$$y mcqueer and the janitor are. You walk in on that and you don't take a running drop kick on the guy? I can't think of any other reaction. Then I would pummel him until he was just about knocked out. Then call the campus cops, the regular cops. Continue beating sandusky (ala Joe Pesci Robert Deniro style) and let the kid join in until they arrrived. Even if you were a docile man and walked in on that, how is a call to the cops not the first thing you do? Your father, thats who you called?? WTF. Now all these people are responsible for letting the monster get away with it for ten more yrs. So f'n disgusting and all of it could have been avoided if either of these two were any kind of man.

curious, why do you insinuate McQueary is gay? Are you saying that gay people would look the other way at child rape?

Sorry, no, not at all. Just spelled his name like that out of being disgusted with him for lack of manhood. It was wrong, and not well thought out. Wasn't implying anything.

 

[culdeus]

I'm sure its been stated on previous pages, but what a p$$$y mcqueer and the janitor are. You walk in on that and you don't take a running drop kick on the guy? I can't think of any other reaction. Then I would pummel him until he was just about knocked out. Then call the campus cops, the regular cops. Continue beating sandusky (ala Joe Pesci Robert Deniro style) and let the kid join in until they arrrived. Even if you were a docile man and walked in on that, how is a call to the cops not the first thing you do? Your father, thats who you called?? WTF. Now all these people are responsible for letting the monster get away with it for ten more yrs. So f'n disgusting and all of it could have been avoided if either of these two were any kind of man.

curious, why do you insinuate McQueary is gay? Are you saying that gay people would look the other way at child rape?

Poke holes in this theory (guess):-People told that Sandusky is closeted gay. It's why he can't coach anymore. A worst kept secret of sorts.

-McQ sees him doing this and it triggers a confirmation bias that he's unable to get past, and his father can't even set him straight

-That one sports writer was right in that it was super odd that he was a high powered coach and unable to find a job in his prime years. There had to be some rumor out on this.

No, he is a pedophile, that is why he can't coach anymore.

I'm talking about actions that would lead up to McQueary's actions. Why he would react in this manner.For a comparision look at

http://www.star-telegram.com/2011/11/09/3514061/baylor-penn-state-scandals-carry.html

 

[Brock Middlebrook]

I'm sure its been stated on previous pages, but what a p$$$y mcqueer and the janitor are. You walk in on that and you don't take a running drop kick on the guy? I can't think of any other reaction. Then I would pummel him until he was just about knocked out. Then call the campus cops, the regular cops. Continue beating sandusky (ala Joe Pesci Robert Deniro style) and let the kid join in until they arrrived. Even if you were a docile man and walked in on that, how is a call to the cops not the first thing you do? Your father, thats who you called?? WTF. Now all these people are responsible for letting the monster get away with it for ten more yrs. So f'n disgusting and all of it could have been avoided if either of these two were any kind of man.

"Hello 911, I'd like to report a murder""When did murder this take place""As soon As I get off the phone"

 

[tri-man 47]

It’s easy to imagine how hopeful the child must have felt when he locked eyes with McQueary. And it’s devastating to imaginehow he must have felt when McQueary fled.

I literally just burst into tears reading these lines. I've always been a bit of a softy, and now that I have a son of my own these things hit me harder than ever before, but this is the kind of thought that makes this whole thing such an inexcusable tragedy. How any man could know that this was happening and not do everything in his power to make it stop is unfathomable to me.

Agreed ...especially a big, imposing, former football player. This isn't the kind of person I'd expect to be passive in such a situation. And McQueary thinks he can just carry on? Did he really think he could just stroll onto the field for Saturday's game? Horrible.

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

with regard to McQueary, he could have easily told the grand jury a different story, couldn't he? If he goes in there and says he saw something inappropriate going on but wasn't exactly sure what was happening. So, he reported it the next day to Paterno and didn't think much of it when nothing else came of it.

if he does that, the whole thing turns out differently it seems. It doesn't excuse his earlier behavior, but his honest testimony there seems to be the key reason we know about all this at this point. He could have saved himself, Paterno, and the others by lying to the grand jury.

Seems like it had probably been eating away at him for years. At least he did the right thing even though it was years too late and relied on other people coming forward first.

 

[Ignoratio Elenchi]

But I keep on putting myself in McQueary's shoes at the age of 22 and think to myself - what would I have done? After all, I was hardly a bastion of wisdom at 22.

:touched:

 

[meanjoegreen]

Who you really are is what you do when nobody is looking. Or at least when you think nobody is looking. When Paterno, McQueary, Curley, etc. thought nobody was looking they put the university, the football program, and their own self-interests above the most vulnerable young victims.Sick of people trying to find excuses.

I remember you finding excuses for Big Ben.

 

[NCCommish]

CrossEyed's a Pitt fan, right?

Sorry, but you're a complete fool if you think this has anything to do with sports.

Ok. But are you?

You might want to take a break, because you are heading down a road that is about to get ugly.

I'm curious. He seems to want to dismantle the university brick by brick. Certainly heinous crimes have been committed, but he's conveniently ignoring the 500,000 alumni/current students and administration that had nothing to do with it when he condemns "PSU". This could be 5, 10, 20 or 100 people. But it isn't PENN STATE. PENN STATE is bigger than that and for him to put the onus there is, potentially, rooted in bias. It is unfair to those who love PSU and are just as hurt and appalled by this allegation everyone else. Some leeway should be granted 19 year olds (not 28) who are having difficulty navigating pride for their school which they should be able to have and abhorrence at the acts of an undetermined number of people. PENN STATE is not and should not be under attack, because when you are attacking PENN STATE, you are attacking not only those culpable but casting a very broad net that captures many without any culpability - and that is why you are getting defensiveness from many.

Something terrible happened. The president, vice president, AD and legendary coach did not do enough to stop a monster in spite of having plenty of evidence. People across the world are outraged. But there is nothing they can do to go back in time and stop Sandusky now, so their focus turns toward the future. The reason people are screaming for punishment is not that they are college rivals or even a lust of vengeance. The reason people want severe punishment it because the next time something similar happens they want the people in power to fully understand the wrath that will come down upon them if they chose to ignore a monster the next time. It's not about Pitt or Penn State, it's about protecting children.

Exactly. So instead of using language that invokes PSU, use language that implicates those you wish to condemn.

Whether you like it or not, and whether I agree that it is reasonable or not, Penn State is implicated.

Depends on how you define Penn State. I would say an unknown number of employees of Penn State are implicated. I'd suggest Penn State was where it occurred. I'd suggest that what I believe is "Penn State" is not implicated.

That was a complete institutional failure on every level. Of course Penn State is implicated. In fact it is the Penn State brand being defended and deferred to that got us here.

 

[Wrigley]

Sick of people trying to find excuses.

this is a normal reaction, but some people are interested in understanding how good people could let something like this happen. it's not making excuses. it's understanding behavior and is really one of the best ways to prevent similar situations in the future.

I've spent a lot of time thinking about this.There's absolutely no grey area when it comes to right and wrong. If this was a TV show, and Jack Bauer or whatever TV good guy heard about this, his next phone call is obviously to the cops. No doubt about right/wrong.

But I do understand the great burden a Paterno must have felt. You kind of have to feel like you're playing god. With one phone call, you ruin your good friend's life. And not just ruin -- really, really, really ruin. You send his reputation down to the tubes and send this man to prison for the rest of his life. That's kind of a 'whoa' moment.

I think it's probably easier to not report to the police a murder than a child rape, as you can probably talk yourself into circles about some murders (the victim was a scumbag, the murderer didn't mean for it to happen, it was a one time thing, etc.). There's absolutely no grey area when it comes to child rape. I get that. I just try to think how I'd feel if someone came to me and told me my best friend was doing such a thing. It definitely takes guts to send your good friend to hell for the rest of their lives. It's the right thing to do, no question. But it's certainly not the easy thing to do. And if I was ever related to such a victim, I'd be livid if anyone tried to protect such a monster.

But I think we've been trained to try to avoid the tough questions. I can see a lot of people thinking "why me? Why am I the one that has to ruin my friend's life? Why am I the one that has to make this call?" Again, not really sure where I'm going with this, just something I've been thinking about. I hope that I would realize that I really wouldn't have any choice in the matter and would inform the authorities immediately. But I don't think it would be easy even for a second.

(For whatever it's worth, it would be much easier for me to act as McQueary than as JoePa. In the heat of the moment, I don't think I'd have even a second's thought about stopping Sandusky. Maybe it would be the emotion.)

Appreciate the honesty here. Ive been thinking about the same thing. With the benefit of hindsight, of course Id like to think that I would make the right decision. I too have young kids and think of myself as having high moral character. But I keep on putting myself in McQueary's shoes at the age of 22 and think to myself - what would I have done? After all, I was hardly a bastion of wisdom at 22.That said, given the heinous nature of the crime witnessed, I think we all agree that he should have notified the authorities. Then I ask myself, what if a lesser crime was committed that wasnt quite as heinous? What if Sandusky was caught looking at child porn on a PC? What if he was caught stealing supplies from the Locker Room? Does a person have the same moral obligation to call the authorities, or would telling his superiors suffice?

To be clear, Im not trying to justify anyones actions. Like Chase and Aaron said, this issue is complex and there is a moral question about how much a person is required to do to fulfill his civic and ethical responsibilities.

Wasn't he 28 when this happened?

 

[ClownCausedChaos]

So, first there was Paterno and he got fired. Now there's McQueary. I'm just curious....After he loses his job, who are you guys going to talk about?

 

[Short Corner]

Depends on how you define Penn State. I would say an unknown number of employees of Penn State are implicated. I'd suggest Penn State was where it occurred. I'd suggest that what I believe is "Penn State" is not implicated.

Define it how you want but PENN STATE will be the entity with the decommits and transfer approvals. PENN STATE will see a major drop from its donors as a direct consequence of the events. PENN STATE will lose hundreds of millions of dollars settling the civil suits. But we'll make sure not to implicate PENN STATE as to not offend you. The fact that people have the nerve to complain about such trivial things in the wake of this is appalling.

 

[squistion]

with regard to McQueary, he could have easily told the grand jury a different story, couldn't he? If he goes in there and says he saw something inappropriate going on but wasn't exactly sure what was happening. So, he reported it the next day to Paterno and didn't think much of it when nothing else came of it.

if he does that, the whole thing turns out differently it seems. It doesn't excuse his earlier behavior, but his honest testimony there seems to be the key reason we know about all this at this point. He could have saved himself, Paterno, and the others by lying to the grand jury.

Seems like it had probably been eating away at him for years. At least he did the right thing even though it was years too late and relied on other people coming forward first.

Well, yeah, but he would run the risk there might be some documentation somewhere (perhaps in the form of an email) that details exactly what he said or that others in the grand jury proceeding would contradict a change in his story - unlikely but it would run through my mind if I were him and were called to go before a grand jury..

 

[ClownCausedChaos]

Sick of people trying to find excuses.

this is a normal reaction, but some people are interested in understanding how good people could let something like this happen. it's not making excuses. it's understanding behavior and is really one of the best ways to prevent similar situations in the future.

I've spent a lot of time thinking about this.There's absolutely no grey area when it comes to right and wrong. If this was a TV show, and Jack Bauer or whatever TV good guy heard about this, his next phone call is obviously to the cops. No doubt about right/wrong.

But I do understand the great burden a Paterno must have felt. You kind of have to feel like you're playing god. With one phone call, you ruin your good friend's life. And not just ruin -- really, really, really ruin. You send his reputation down to the tubes and send this man to prison for the rest of his life. That's kind of a 'whoa' moment.

I think it's probably easier to not report to the police a murder than a child rape, as you can probably talk yourself into circles about some murders (the victim was a scumbag, the murderer didn't mean for it to happen, it was a one time thing, etc.). There's absolutely no grey area when it comes to child rape. I get that. I just try to think how I'd feel if someone came to me and told me my best friend was doing such a thing. It definitely takes guts to send your good friend to hell for the rest of their lives. It's the right thing to do, no question. But it's certainly not the easy thing to do. And if I was ever related to such a victim, I'd be livid if anyone tried to protect such a monster.

But I think we've been trained to try to avoid the tough questions. I can see a lot of people thinking "why me? Why am I the one that has to ruin my friend's life? Why am I the one that has to make this call?" Again, not really sure where I'm going with this, just something I've been thinking about. I hope that I would realize that I really wouldn't have any choice in the matter and would inform the authorities immediately. But I don't think it would be easy even for a second.

(For whatever it's worth, it would be much easier for me to act as McQueary than as JoePa. In the heat of the moment, I don't think I'd have even a second's thought about stopping Sandusky. Maybe it would be the emotion.)

Appreciate the honesty here. Ive been thinking about the same thing. With the benefit of hindsight, of course Id like to think that I would make the right decision. I too have young kids and think of myself as having high moral character. But I keep on putting myself in McQueary's shoes at the age of 22 and think to myself - what would I have done? After all, I was hardly a bastion of wisdom at 22.That said, given the heinous nature of the crime witnessed, I think we all agree that he should have notified the authorities. Then I ask myself, what if a lesser crime was committed that wasnt quite as heinous? What if Sandusky was caught looking at child porn on a PC? What if he was caught stealing supplies from the Locker Room? Does a person have the same moral obligation to call the authorities, or would telling his superiors suffice?

To be clear, Im not trying to justify anyones actions. Like Chase and Aaron said, this issue is complex and there is a moral question about how much a person is required to do to fulfill his civic and ethical responsibilities.

Wasn't he 28 when this happened?

In Mountain Time.

 

[Idiot Boxer]

Depends on how you define Penn State. I would say an unknown number of employees of Penn State are implicated. I'd suggest Penn State was where it occurred. I'd suggest that what I believe is "Penn State" is not implicated.

Define it how you want but PENN STATE will be the entity with the decommits and transfer approvals. PENN STATE will see a major drop from its donors as a direct consequence of the events. PENN STATE will lose hundreds of millions of dollars settling the civil suits. But we'll make sure not to implicate PENN STATE as to not offend you. The fact that people have the nerve to complain about such trivial things in the wake of this is appalling.

Sorry buddy. Here's another rock. Throw away.

 

[The Future Champs]

Whether you like it or not, and whether I agree that it is reasonable or not, Penn State is implicated.

Great post! You manage to implicate all of Penn State while keeping your hands clean of implicating all of Penn State.

 

[Wadsworth]

CrossEyed's a Pitt fan, right?

Sorry, but you're a complete fool if you think this has anything to do with sports.

Ok. But are you?

You might want to take a break, because you are heading down a road that is about to get ugly.

I'm curious. He seems to want to dismantle the university brick by brick. Certainly heinous crimes have been committed, but he's conveniently ignoring the 500,000 alumni/current students and administration that had nothing to do with it when he condemns "PSU". This could be 5, 10, 20 or 100 people. But it isn't PENN STATE. PENN STATE is bigger than that and for him to put the onus there is, potentially, rooted in bias. It is unfair to those who love PSU and are just as hurt and appalled by this allegation everyone else. Some leeway should be granted 19 year olds (not 28) who are having difficulty navigating pride for their school which they should be able to have and abhorrence at the acts of an undetermined number of people. PENN STATE is not and should not be under attack, because when you are attacking PENN STATE, you are attacking not only those culpable but casting a very broad net that captures many without any culpability - and that is why you are getting defensiveness from many.

Something terrible happened. The president, vice president, AD and legendary coach did not do enough to stop a monster in spite of having plenty of evidence. People across the world are outraged. But there is nothing they can do to go back in time and stop Sandusky now, so their focus turns toward the future. The reason people are screaming for punishment is not that they are college rivals or even a lust of vengeance. The reason people want severe punishment it because the next time something similar happens they want the people in power to fully understand the wrath that will come down upon them if they chose to ignore a monster the next time. It's not about Pitt or Penn State, it's about protecting children.

Exactly. So instead of using language that invokes PSU, use language that implicates those you wish to condemn.

Whether you like it or not, and whether I agree that it is reasonable or not, Penn State is implicated.

Depends on how you define Penn State. I would say an unknown number of employees of Penn State are implicated. I'd suggest Penn State was where it occurred. I'd suggest that what I believe is "Penn State" is not implicated.

How much money and prestige did an unknown number of employees cost the Catholic Church?

 

[ClownCausedChaos]

It’s easy to imagine how hopeful the child must have felt when he locked eyes with McQueary. And it’s devastating to imaginehow he must have felt when McQueary fled.

I literally just burst into tears reading these lines. I've always been a bit of a softy, and now that I have a son of my own these things hit me harder than ever before, but this is the kind of thought that makes this whole thing such an inexcusable tragedy. How any man could know that this was happening and not do everything in his power to make it stop is unfathomable to me.

 

[The Future Champs]

Who you really are is what you do when nobody is looking. Or at least when you think nobody is looking. When Paterno, McQueary, Curley, etc. thought nobody was looking they put the university, the football program, and their own self-interests above the most vulnerable young victims.Sick of people trying to find excuses.

I remember you finding excuses for Big Ben.

Raping adults isn't all that big of a deal.

 

[Parrothead]

Sick of people trying to find excuses.

this is a normal reaction, but some people are interested in understanding how good people could let something like this happen. it's not making excuses. it's understanding behavior and is really one of the best ways to prevent similar situations in the future.

I've spent a lot of time thinking about this.There's absolutely no grey area when it comes to right and wrong. If this was a TV show, and Jack Bauer or whatever TV good guy heard about this, his next phone call is obviously to the cops. No doubt about right/wrong.

But I do understand the great burden a Paterno must have felt. You kind of have to feel like you're playing god. With one phone call, you ruin your good friend's life. And not just ruin -- really, really, really ruin. You send his reputation down to the tubes and send this man to prison for the rest of his life. That's kind of a 'whoa' moment.

I think it's probably easier to not report to the police a murder than a child rape, as you can probably talk yourself into circles about some murders (the victim was a scumbag, the murderer didn't mean for it to happen, it was a one time thing, etc.). There's absolutely no grey area when it comes to child rape. I get that. I just try to think how I'd feel if someone came to me and told me my best friend was doing such a thing. It definitely takes guts to send your good friend to hell for the rest of their lives. It's the right thing to do, no question. But it's certainly not the easy thing to do. And if I was ever related to such a victim, I'd be livid if anyone tried to protect such a monster.

But I think we've been trained to try to avoid the tough questions. I can see a lot of people thinking "why me? Why am I the one that has to ruin my friend's life? Why am I the one that has to make this call?" Again, not really sure where I'm going with this, just something I've been thinking about. I hope that I would realize that I really wouldn't have any choice in the matter and would inform the authorities immediately. But I don't think it would be easy even for a second.

(For whatever it's worth, it would be much easier for me to act as McQueary than as JoePa. In the heat of the moment, I don't think I'd have even a second's thought about stopping Sandusky. Maybe it would be the emotion.)

Appreciate the honesty here. Ive been thinking about the same thing. With the benefit of hindsight, of course Id like to think that I would make the right decision. I too have young kids and think of myself as having high moral character. But I keep on putting myself in McQueary's shoes at the age of 22 and think to myself - what would I have done? After all, I was hardly a bastion of wisdom at 22.That said, given the heinous nature of the crime witnessed, I think we all agree that he should have notified the authorities. Then I ask myself, what if a lesser crime was committed that wasnt quite as heinous? What if Sandusky was caught looking at child porn on a PC? What if he was caught stealing supplies from the Locker Room? Does a person have the same moral obligation to call the authorities, or would telling his superiors suffice?

To be clear, Im not trying to justify anyones actions. Like Chase and Aaron said, this issue is complex and there is a moral question about how much a person is required to do to fulfill his civic and ethical responsibilities.

Wasn't he 28 when this happened?

In Mountain Time.

Colorado is a state-related school

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

It’s easy to imagine how hopeful the child must have felt when he locked eyes with McQueary. And it’s devastating to imaginehow he must have felt when McQueary fled.

I literally just burst into tears reading these lines. I've always been a bit of a softy, and now that I have a son of my own these things hit me harder than ever before, but this is the kind of thought that makes this whole thing such an inexcusable tragedy. How any man could know that this was happening and not do everything in his power to make it stop is unfathomable to me.

 

[Idiot Boxer]

It's easy to imagine how hopeful the child must have felt when he locked eyes with McQueary. And it's devastating to imaginehow he must have felt when McQueary fled.

I literally just burst into tears reading these lines. I've always been a bit of a softy, and now that I have a son of my own these things hit me harder than ever before, but this is the kind of thought that makes this whole thing such an inexcusable tragedy. How any man could know that this was happening and not do everything in his power to make it stop is unfathomable to me.

Seems uncalled for.

 

[CrossEyed]

It’s easy to imagine how hopeful the child must have felt when he locked eyes with McQueary. And it’s devastating to imaginehow he must have felt when McQueary fled.

I literally just burst into tears reading these lines. I've always been a bit of a softy, and now that I have a son of my own these things hit me harder than ever before, but this is the kind of thought that makes this whole thing such an inexcusable tragedy. How any man could know that this was happening and not do everything in his power to make it stop is unfathomable to me.

Absolutely. Probably the reason that kid never spoke out, and probably never will.

 

[CrossEyed]

Who you really are is what you do when nobody is looking. Or at least when you think nobody is looking. When Paterno, McQueary, Curley, etc. thought nobody was looking they put the university, the football program, and their own self-interests above the most vulnerable young victims.Sick of people trying to find excuses.

I remember you finding excuses for Big Ben.

I don't think you do. I was one of the most vocal critics of Ben among Steeler fans.

 

[ClownCausedChaos]

It’s easy to imagine how hopeful the child must have felt when he locked eyes with McQueary. And it’s devastating to imaginehow he must have felt when McQueary fled.

I literally just burst into tears reading these lines. I've always been a bit of a softy, and now that I have a son of my own these things hit me harder than ever before, but this is the kind of thought that makes this whole thing such an inexcusable tragedy. How any man could know that this was happening and not do everything in his power to make it stop is unfathomable to me.

Sorry, I just don't get this. I have a 1-year-old son, and he's the light of my life. I'd kill if something like this happened to him. But, having this kind of reaction to words on a page from some journalist trying to use the most shocking imagery that he possibly can just to outdo the thousands of other sports writers that came before him....I just don't get it.This whole media thing has become a big game of "can-you-top-this", and I actually find it repulsive that this writer would stoop to the level of attempting to place this image into his readers' heads. I had the complete opposite reaction when I read it. It pissed me off.

 

[The Future Champs]

-That one sports writer was right in that it was super odd that he was a high powered coach and unable to find a job in his prime years. There had to be some rumor out on this.

Maybe, but I'll throw out another possibility that he didn't coach again: finding another coaching job would have required leaving State College, and that would have meant leaving behind the 2nd Mile pipeline that he'd built up over all those years that supplied him with victims. Sick, but possible.

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

Seems like a couple of you guys are trying to join LHUCKS and Goggins this week. Whole lot of mods watching this thread so I'd watch myself if I were some of you.

 

[ClownCausedChaos]

Its easy to imagine how hopeful the child must have felt when he locked eyes with McQueary. And its devastating to imaginehow he must have felt when McQueary fled.

I literally just burst into tears reading these lines. I've always been a bit of a softy, and now that I have a son of my own these things hit me harder than ever before, but this is the kind of thought that makes this whole thing such an inexcusable tragedy. How any man could know that this was happening and not do everything in his power to make it stop is unfathomable to me.

Go #### yourself, idiot.

I apokogize, I'm sorry. You're right, it was uncalled for In my previous reply to Aaron, I attempted to explain myself. Perhaps the smiley I used was not the correct one for the message I was trying to convey.TO that extent, I understand if you choose not to accept my apology. Seems its time for me to withdrawl from this thread. My emotions are getting the best of me. I apologize to everyone, but to Ignoratio Elenchi, specifically.

One last thought: Mods - Please do not view Ignoratio's response to my post as "not being excellent". It was a proper response to my ignorant reaction.

 

[Idiot Boxer]

Let me suggest that it is wrong for people in here to insult others for having differing opinions on a lot of this.

We all agree the base act is horrendous and abominable. We have differing opinions on some of the issues surrounding this complicated matter and I've seen too many people attack others in here for not sharing their own viewpoint. Guilty of this myself.

I'm stepping out of the conversation for awhile. I'd suggest some of the most vocal of us do the same.

 

[Idiot Boxer]

Seems like a couple of you guys are trying to join LHUCKS and Goggins this week. Whole lot of mods watching this thread so I'd watch myself if I were some of you.

* Final one for now. I agree, but don't be so narrow-minded in your conclusions to fail to see that some on your side of this have been 'bullying' as well.Stepping out. Back to funny-IB as proninja asked.

 

[CrossEyed]

Let me suggest that it is wrong for people in here to insult others for having differing opinions on a lot of this.We all agree the base act is horrendous and abominable. We have differing opinions on some of the issues surrounding this complicated matter and I've seen too many people attack others in here for not sharing their own viewpoint. Guilty of this myself.I'm stepping out of the conversation for awhile. I'd suggest some of the most vocal of us do the same.

Pretty wise counsel...for a PSU grad.IT'S A JOKE!!!

 

[Wadsworth]

with regard to McQueary, he could have easily told the grand jury a different story, couldn't he? If he goes in there and says he saw something inappropriate going on but wasn't exactly sure what was happening. So, he reported it the next day to Paterno and didn't think much of it when nothing else came of it.if he does that, the whole thing turns out differently it seems. It doesn't excuse his earlier behavior, but his honest testimony there seems to be the key reason we know about all this at this point. He could have saved himself, Paterno, and the others by lying to the grand jury.Seems like it had probably been eating away at him for years. At least he did the right thing even though it was years too late and relied on other people coming forward first.

Mike is a father now. And it does eat away at him daily... as it should.

 

[mad sweeney]

Sick of people trying to find excuses.

this is a normal reaction, but some people are interested in understanding how good people could let something like this happen. it's not making excuses. it's understanding behavior and is really one of the best ways to prevent similar situations in the future.

I've spent a lot of time thinking about this.There's absolutely no grey area when it comes to right and wrong. If this was a TV show, and Jack Bauer or whatever TV good guy heard about this, his next phone call is obviously to the cops. No doubt about right/wrong.But I do understand the great burden a Paterno must have felt. You kind of have to feel like you're playing god. With one phone call, you ruin your good friend's life. And not just ruin -- really, really, really ruin. You send his reputation down to the tubes and send this man to prison for the rest of his life. That's kind of a 'whoa' moment. I think it's probably easier to not report to the police a murder than a child rape, as you can probably talk yourself into circles about some murders (the victim was a scumbag, the murderer didn't mean for it to happen, it was a one time thing, etc.). There's absolutely no grey area when it comes to child rape. I get that. I just try to think how I'd feel if someone came to me and told me my best friend was doing such a thing. It definitely takes guts to send your good friend to hell for the rest of their lives. It's the right thing to do, no question. But it's certainly not the easy thing to do. And if I was ever related to such a victim, I'd be livid if anyone tried to protect such a monster. But I think we've been trained to try to avoid the tough questions. I can see a lot of people thinking "why me? Why am I the one that has to ruin my friend's life? Why am I the one that has to make this call?" Again, not really sure where I'm going with this, just something I've been thinking about. I hope that I would realize that I really wouldn't have any choice in the matter and would inform the authorities immediately. But I don't think it would be easy even for a second.(For whatever it's worth, it would be much easier for me to act as McQueary than as JoePa. In the heat of the moment, I don't think I'd have even a second's thought about stopping Sandusky. Maybe it would be the emotion.)

Appreciate the honesty here. Ive been thinking about the same thing. With the benefit of hindsight, of course Id like to think that I would make the right decision. I too have young kids and think of myself as having high moral character. But I keep on putting myself in McQueary's shoes at the age of 22 and think to myself - what would I have done? After all, I was hardly a bastion of wisdom at 22.That said, given the heinous nature of the crime witnessed, I think we all agree that he should have notified the authorities. Then I ask myself, what if a lesser crime was committed that wasnt quite as heinous? What if Sandusky was caught looking at child porn on a PC? What if he was caught stealing supplies from the Locker Room? Does a person have the same moral obligation to call the authorities, or would telling his superiors suffice?To be clear, Im not trying to justify anyones actions. Like Chase and Aaron said, this issue is complex and there is a moral question about how much a person is required to do to fulfill his civic and ethical responsibilities.

First of all, he was a 28 year old large former athlete. Second, I don't know how much wisdom you need to have to stop an old man raping a kid. Actually I do, zero. The guy's a coward and an enabler and he should be fired as well as prosecuted.

 

[Parrothead]

Let me suggest that it is wrong for people in here to insult others for having differing opinions on a lot of this.We all agree the base act is horrendous and abominable. We have differing opinions on some of the issues surrounding this complicated matter and I've seen too many people attack others in here for not sharing their own viewpoint. Guilty of this myself.I'm stepping out of the conversation for awhile. I'd suggest some of the most vocal of us do the same.

Pretty wise counsel...for a PSU grad.IT'S A JOKE!!!

why do you hate state schools?

 

[Dr. Awesome]

It’s easy to imagine how hopeful the child must have felt when he locked eyes with McQueary. And it’s devastating to imaginehow he must have felt when McQueary fled.

I literally just burst into tears reading these lines. I've always been a bit of a softy, and now that I have a son of my own these things hit me harder than ever before, but this is the kind of thought that makes this whole thing such an inexcusable tragedy. How any man could know that this was happening and not do everything in his power to make it stop is unfathomable to me.

Sorry, I just don't get this. I have a 1-year-old son, and he's the light of my life. I'd kill if something like this happened to him. But, having this kind of reaction to words on a page from some journalist trying to use the most shocking imagery that he possibly can just to outdo the thousands of other sports writers that came before him....I just don't get it.This whole media thing has become a big game of "can-you-top-this", and I actually find it repulsive that this writer would stoop to the level of attempting to place this image into his readers' heads. I had the complete opposite reaction when I read it. It pissed me off.

I get that. It's a fine line between being over the top and trying to emotionally connect with the reader.

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

Seems like a couple of you guys are trying to join LHUCKS and Goggins this week. Whole lot of mods watching this thread so I'd watch myself if I were some of you.

* Final one for now. I agree, but don't be so narrow-minded in your conclusions to fail to see that some on your side of this have been 'bullying' as well.Stepping out. Back to funny-IB as proninja asked.

Narrow-minded? I've re-read my post a dozen times and it still reads to me like I'm talking to everyone. I would hate to see any long time poster here get banned over this topic. Not sure how that makes me narrow-minded. Also, if we have to choose sides I'm on the side that is against child rape? Are there people here for child rape? Didn't realize we were on different sides on this topic.

 

[Brock Middlebrook]

Let me suggest that it is wrong for people in here to insult others for having differing opinions on a lot of this.We all agree the base act is horrendous and abominable. We have differing opinions on some of the issues surrounding this complicated matter and I've seen too many people attack others in here for not sharing their own viewpoint. Guilty of this myself.I'm stepping out of the conversation for awhile. I'd suggest some of the most vocal of us do the same.

Pretty wise counsel...for a PSU grad.IT'S A JOKE!!!

why do you hate state schools?

state related?

 

[CrossEyed]

Let me suggest that it is wrong for people in here to insult others for having differing opinions on a lot of this.We all agree the base act is horrendous and abominable. We have differing opinions on some of the issues surrounding this complicated matter and I've seen too many people attack others in here for not sharing their own viewpoint. Guilty of this myself.I'm stepping out of the conversation for awhile. I'd suggest some of the most vocal of us do the same.

Pretty wise counsel...for a PSU grad.IT'S A JOKE!!!

why do you hate state schools?

State-related.ETA: Curse you, Brock Middlebrook!!

 

[Sinn Fein]

I am really not sure there is anymore to see here right now. Absent additional evidence, or new allegations, there is nothing but speculation as to how deep, or even if, there was an institutional cover-up here.

We know:

1. McQueary says he viewed Sandusky rape a boy. - Sandusky has been arrested, McQueary probably has coached his last game at Penn State.

2. McQueary told Paterno something about the incident. Paterno notified the AD, but not law enforcement. - Paterno has been fired; AD has been charged with perjury.

3. The president has been fired.

We can speculate as to what was said at each step of the way, and why each person acted the way they did, but that is just speculation. At some point more facts will be known, and we can discuss the ramifications.

 

[scoobygang]

It’s easy to imagine how hopeful the child must have felt when he locked eyes with McQueary. And it’s devastating to imaginehow he must have felt when McQueary fled.

I literally just burst into tears reading these lines. I've always been a bit of a softy, and now that I have a son of my own these things hit me harder than ever before, but this is the kind of thought that makes this whole thing such an inexcusable tragedy. How any man could know that this was happening and not do everything in his power to make it stop is unfathomable to me.

Sorry, I just don't get this. I have a 1-year-old son, and he's the light of my life. I'd kill if something like this happened to him. But, having this kind of reaction to words on a page from some journalist trying to use the most shocking imagery that he possibly can just to outdo the thousands of other sports writers that came before him....I just don't get it.This whole media thing has become a big game of "can-you-top-this", and I actually find it repulsive that this writer would stoop to the level of attempting to place this image into his readers' heads. I had the complete opposite reaction when I read it. It pissed me off.

I think it's also incredibly naive of the journalist to think that sexual abuse victims are hoping to be discovered. If that were true, they'd be telling people. They think THEY'RE doing something wrong. They blame themselves. That kid probably wasn't filled with hope when he locked eyes with McQueary. He was likely filled with shame and fear. Which is obviously heartbreaking in its own way.

 

[Monsieur Meursault]

It's gonna come out that Sandusky has filled several prescriptions for Viagra. Just wait.

 

[Johnnymac]

JoePa is what, 84 years old? Not charged with any crime... why wouldn't he write a deathbed autobiography that told his side of all this? I have to think he won't go to the grave keeping all the details to which he was privy, a secret. Well, unless the autobiography would paint him in a really poor light, I suppose. Just a thought. And if JoePa were to write a book, I would be most interested to see where the proceeds go... to his family, or back to PSU or to some victims' fund.

Would you believe what he wrote?

 

[mad sweeney]

Let me suggest that it is wrong for people in here to insult others for having differing opinions on a lot of this.We all agree the base act is horrendous and abominable. We have differing opinions on some of the issues surrounding this complicated matter and I've seen too many people attack others in here for not sharing their own viewpoint. Guilty of this myself.I'm stepping out of the conversation for awhile. I'd suggest some of the most vocal of us do the same.

Is that an apology?

 

[Sinn Fein]

Let me suggest that it is wrong for people in here to insult others for having differing opinions on a lot of this.We all agree the base act is horrendous and abominable. We have differing opinions on some of the issues surrounding this complicated matter and I've seen too many people attack others in here for not sharing their own viewpoint. Guilty of this myself.I'm stepping out of the conversation for awhile. I'd suggest some of the most vocal of us do the same.

Pretty wise counsel...for a PSU grad.IT'S A JOKE!!!

why do you hate state schools?

Because I am 28 years old. I am a man. Come after me.Oh wait, I am getting my shtick mixed together.

 

[shadyridr]

Appreciate the honesty here. Ive been thinking about the same thing. With the benefit of hindsight, of course Id like to think that I would make the right decision. I too have young kids and think of myself as having high moral character. But I keep on putting myself in McQueary's shoes at the age of 22 and think to myself - what would I have done? After all, I was hardly a bastion of wisdom at 22.

What about at 28?

 

[scoobygang]

I am really not sure there is anymore to see here right now. Absent additional evidence, or new allegations, there is nothing but speculation as to how deep, or even if, there was an institutional cover-up here.We know:1. McQueary says he viewed Sandusky rape a boy. - Sandusky has been arrested, McQueary probably has coached his last game at Penn State.2. McQueary told Paterno something about the incident. Paterno notified the AD, but not law enforcement. - Paterno has been fired; AD has been charged with perjury.3. The president has been fired.We can speculate as to what was said at each step of the way, and why each person acted the way they did, but that is just speculation. At some point more facts will be known, and we can discuss the ramifications.

A problem we have is that the Grand Jury presentment goes to great pains to try to weight the creibility of McQueary agains Curley and Schultz but never performs the same analysis with Joe Pa. It's a bit baffling. So it's hard to know how the story changed between what McQueary saw and what Joe Pa reported.I can construct a scenario where Joe Pa is just completely naive and out of touch. Maybe he knows nothing came out of the 1998 investigation. Maybe he thinks Sandusky has a thing for inappropriate (but not SEXUAL) contact. Joe Pa knows that's weird, but relies on the police who said it wasn't criminal. And he hears a new report and thinks it's the same thing. He reports it and doesn't do anything else. It's not his problem. Whatever. That doesn't make it right. He should lose his job, as he did. It's terribly out of touch. But that doesn't mean it's a cover up. But it's tough to give credence to that narrative without details, and the presentment just leaves them out.

 

[Ignoratio Elenchi]

It’s easy to imagine how hopeful the child must have felt when he locked eyes with McQueary. And it’s devastating to imaginehow he must have felt when McQueary fled.

I literally just burst into tears reading these lines. I've always been a bit of a softy, and now that I have a son of my own these things hit me harder than ever before, but this is the kind of thought that makes this whole thing such an inexcusable tragedy. How any man could know that this was happening and not do everything in his power to make it stop is unfathomable to me.

Go #### yourself, idiot.

I apokogize, I'm sorry. You're right, it was uncalled for In my previous reply to Aaron, I attempted to explain myself. Perhaps the smiley I used was not the correct one for the message I was trying to convey.TO that extent, I understand if you choose not to accept my apology. Seems its time for me to withdrawl from this thread. My emotions are getting the best of me. I apologize to everyone, but to Ignoratio Elenchi, specifically.

One last thought: Mods - Please do not view Ignoratio's response to my post as "not being excellent". It was a proper response to my ignorant reaction.

Apology accepted. I've been guilty of posting things I later regret, too. Sorry I lashed back at you like that.These things just really get me, though. Don't know why, but they do. I can hear about all kinds of other crimes and not get too upset but when it comes to kids I can't take it. I lost my #### when they found that 8 year old Jewish kid in Brooklyn back in the summer. All he wanted to do was be allowed to walk home on his own one time, and his parents finally let him, and some monster found him and tortured him and killed him. And I just kept thinking how scared he must have been, and how alone he must have felt. It rips me up. Same with the McQueary thing - that poor boy was getting raped by Sandusky, and he must have felt so scared and so alone. And then all of a sudden McQueary walks in and they all make eye contact, and for a moment that boy probably felt such immense joy that he'd been saved. And then McQueary ran away, and never did anything to help that boy. No one ever did. The lines I quoted from the article sum up exactly how I feel - I can't imagine how horrible it must be to endure being raped, but for whatever reason I think the devastation that boy felt when McQueary ran away must have somehow been worse.

 

[Native]

Appreciate the honesty here. Ive been thinking about the same thing. With the benefit of hindsight, of course Id like to think that I would make the right decision. I too have young kids and think of myself as having high moral character. But I keep on putting myself in McQueary's shoes at the age of 22 and think to myself - what would I have done? After all, I was hardly a bastion of wisdom at 22.

What about at 28?

Every day that passed where he didnt say anything makes it worse and worse. If he didnt realize the ramifications of what he saw at 22, Id hope several days/weeks/months later he wouldve put things into proper perspective.

 

[culdeus]

Sick of people trying to find excuses.

this is a normal reaction, but some people are interested in understanding how good people could let something like this happen. it's not making excuses. it's understanding behavior and is really one of the best ways to prevent similar situations in the future.

I've spent a lot of time thinking about this.There's absolutely no grey area when it comes to right and wrong. If this was a TV show, and Jack Bauer or whatever TV good guy heard about this, his next phone call is obviously to the cops. No doubt about right/wrong.But I do understand the great burden a Paterno must have felt. You kind of have to feel like you're playing god. With one phone call, you ruin your good friend's life. And not just ruin -- really, really, really ruin. You send his reputation down to the tubes and send this man to prison for the rest of his life. That's kind of a 'whoa' moment. I think it's probably easier to not report to the police a murder than a child rape, as you can probably talk yourself into circles about some murders (the victim was a scumbag, the murderer didn't mean for it to happen, it was a one time thing, etc.). There's absolutely no grey area when it comes to child rape. I get that. I just try to think how I'd feel if someone came to me and told me my best friend was doing such a thing. It definitely takes guts to send your good friend to hell for the rest of their lives. It's the right thing to do, no question. But it's certainly not the easy thing to do. And if I was ever related to such a victim, I'd be livid if anyone tried to protect such a monster. But I think we've been trained to try to avoid the tough questions. I can see a lot of people thinking "why me? Why am I the one that has to ruin my friend's life? Why am I the one that has to make this call?" Again, not really sure where I'm going with this, just something I've been thinking about. I hope that I would realize that I really wouldn't have any choice in the matter and would inform the authorities immediately. But I don't think it would be easy even for a second.(For whatever it's worth, it would be much easier for me to act as McQueary than as JoePa. In the heat of the moment, I don't think I'd have even a second's thought about stopping Sandusky. Maybe it would be the emotion.)

Appreciate the honesty here. Ive been thinking about the same thing. With the benefit of hindsight, of course Id like to think that I would make the right decision. I too have young kids and think of myself as having high moral character. But I keep on putting myself in McQueary's shoes at the age of 22 and think to myself - what would I have done? After all, I was hardly a bastion of wisdom at 22.That said, given the heinous nature of the crime witnessed, I think we all agree that he should have notified the authorities. Then I ask myself, what if a lesser crime was committed that wasnt quite as heinous? What if Sandusky was caught looking at child porn on a PC? What if he was caught stealing supplies from the Locker Room? Does a person have the same moral obligation to call the authorities, or would telling his superiors suffice?To be clear, Im not trying to justify anyones actions. Like Chase and Aaron said, this issue is complex and there is a moral question about how much a person is required to do to fulfill his civic and ethical responsibilities.

First of all, he was a 28 year old large former athlete. Second, I don't know how much wisdom you need to have to stop an old man raping a kid. Actually I do, zero. The guy's a coward and an enabler and he should be fired as well as prosecuted.

In Texas they will prosecute you for exactly what he did not do. There is no such law in PA.

 

[Parrothead]

Let me suggest that it is wrong for people in here to insult others for having differing opinions on a lot of this.

We all agree the base act is horrendous and abominable. We have differing opinions on some of the issues surrounding this complicated matter and I've seen too many people attack others in here for not sharing their own viewpoint. Guilty of this myself.

I'm stepping out of the conversation for awhile. I'd suggest some of the most vocal of us do the same.

Pretty wise counsel...for a PSU grad.IT'S A JOKE!!!

why do you hate state schools?

Because I am 28 years old. I am a man. Come after me.Oh wait, I am getting my shtick mixed together.

and you would tackle a naked creepy old guy with a boner.. because you are 28 and read Touched