Jerry Sandusky accused of child molestation (3 Viewers)

[Borat]

There does seem to be a bit of disingenuousness here among fans of other football powerhouses. If Penn State should shut down its program due to its outsized role on campus, then so should Alabama and Ohio State and Tennessee and pretty much every big football program.

You are not trying to compare hiding a child sexual abuse case to kids taking money under the table are you? There hasn't been anything in college football this bad. Even SMU in the 80's which got the death penalty (deservedly so) was nothing compared to this.

I'm not comparing anything. I'm just commenting on the reactions in this thread. People are saying that, in addition to punishing culpable parties, the football program should be shut down at least temporarily in an attempt to change the culture at Penn State. But that same culture exists at a lot of other universities. Penn State was just the only one (hopefully) that was unfortunate enough to have a pedophile take advantage of that culture to prey on kids. If your view is that the culture at Penn State needs to be changed, then it seems to follow that the culture also needs to change at all comparable schools.

Which comparable schools specifically, and what evidence are you bringing to the table that would suggest that people in positions of authority at these schools would enable a pedophile like they did at Penn State?Shutting down the Penn State football program would send one hell of a message to other schools. I don't know if that is the right move or not, but I would not be opposed to making an example out of them.

 

[Borat]

If the people of Pennsylvania have any class whatsoever, they will march to that campus and tear that statue down. Joe Paterno is a disgrace and his family should be ashamed.

If I march 150 miles to Happy Valley I'll be too tired to tear the statue down. Can I take the bus instead?

Sure. That way, you could also just plow right over the statue instead of having to tear it down.

 

[Wrighteous Ray]

If these places are problems just waiting to happen, it doesn't seem like we should wait to hear about all the bad stuff before taking steps.

The right step, imo, is to come down HARD on those who are caught. Kill a program (temporarily) like PSU and you send a powerful message to all other universities.

Yes, the message is "don't get caught." It seems like Penn State already had that message. That's what allowed this situation to continue.

 

[The Commish]

There does seem to be a bit of disingenuousness here among fans of other football powerhouses. If Penn State should shut down its program due to its outsized role on campus, then so should Alabama and Ohio State and Tennessee and pretty much every big football program.

As soon as their oversized role leads to repeated coverup of criminal activities, I'll agree with you.

If these places are problems just waiting to happen, it doesn't seem like we should wait to hear about all the bad stuff before taking steps.

The right step, imo, is to come down HARD on those who are caught. Kill a program (temporarily) like PSU and you send a powerful message to all other universities.

Given the current rep of the NCAA and the actions PSU has already taken, what you think the message would be that they receive?

 

[shake zula]

There does seem to be a bit of disingenuousness here among fans of other football powerhouses. If Penn State should shut down its program due to its outsized role on campus, then so should Alabama and Ohio State and Tennessee and pretty much every big football program.

You are not trying to compare hiding a child sexual abuse case to kids taking money under the table are you? There hasn't been anything in college football this bad. Even SMU in the 80's which got the death penalty (deservedly so) was nothing compared to this.

I'm not comparing anything. I'm just commenting on the reactions in this thread. People are saying that, in addition to punishing culpable parties, the football program should be shut down at least temporarily in an attempt to change the culture at Penn State. But that same culture exists at a lot of other universities. Penn State was just the only one (hopefully) that was unfortunate enough to have a pedophile take advantage of that culture to prey on kids. If your view is that the culture at Penn State needs to be changed, then it seems to follow that the culture also needs to change at all comparable schools.

Oh I am not naive to think that other major colleges wouldn't have had the same issues. I mean if guy like paterno can turn a blind eye to it then people we know are shady as hell would do the same.

I just think that if the NCAA has even a smidge of respect (which I doubt they do), they treat this much much worse then they did for things like Ohio State, Florida State, Miami, or probably USC.

I'm not sure this is true. I think most head coaches are shady as hell but there is a huge leap from shady as hell to institutional corruption to protect a child molester. Even among the shadiest people there is a line and this would seem to me to be well beyond it.

 

[Kiddnets]

Sad day...not a huge Penn St fan but admired Paterno for years...I knew it was coming and thought it was the right decision to fire him at the time...but this is nothing short of a complete damnation of Paterno and the others named. Im sure Paterno backers will try to explain the note re 2d mile liability and Joe was just a clueless old man but that holds no water to me. Its over - the guy protected a molester over innocent kids which makes him an accessory.

I think the death penalty is in order here - when a school for kids allows kids to be victiminzed to protect a game...its time to cancel the games....or even shut down the school itself.

 

[CrossEyed]

If these places are problems just waiting to happen, it doesn't seem like we should wait to hear about all the bad stuff before taking steps.

The right step, imo, is to come down HARD on those who are caught. Kill a program (temporarily) like PSU and you send a powerful message to all other universities.

Yes, the message is "don't get caught." It seems like Penn State already had that message. That's what allowed this situation to continue.

The message should be, "Come forward, and the penalty will be firm but reasonable. Don't come forward, and the penalty will be harsh and merciless."

 

[Wrighteous Ray]

Which comparable schools specifically, and what evidence are you bringing to the table that would suggest that people in positions of authority at these schools would enable a pedophile like they did at Penn State?

By "comparable schools" I'm talking about schools where football is a dominant force on campus and with alumni. I used Alabama, Ohio State and Tennessee as examples -- there are probably dozens of others.I guess my evidence is 1) those schools have a history of trying to sweep (less serious) football-related problems under the rug; and 2) one of the big reasons why this was allowed to happen at Penn State was a result of football's prominence on campus, and that same reason exists at those other schools.We certainly can't know for sure what would happen at each campus until it happens, but it doesn't strike me that there is anything particularly unique about Penn State suggesting it could only happen there.

 

[CrossEyed]

Which comparable schools specifically, and what evidence are you bringing to the table that would suggest that people in positions of authority at these schools would enable a pedophile like they did at Penn State?

By "comparable schools" I'm talking about schools where football is a dominant force on campus and with alumni. I used Alabama, Ohio State and Tennessee as examples -- there are probably dozens of others.I guess my evidence is 1) those schools have a history of trying to sweep (less serious) football-related problems under the rug; and 2) one of the big reasons why this was allowed to happen at Penn State was a result of football's prominence on campus, and that same reason exists at those other schools.

We certainly can't know for sure what would happen at each campus until it happens, but it doesn't strike me that there is anything particularly unique about Penn State suggesting it could only happen there.

Completely agree with this.

 

[Borat]

Which comparable schools specifically, and what evidence are you bringing to the table that would suggest that people in positions of authority at these schools would enable a pedophile like they did at Penn State?

By "comparable schools" I'm talking about schools where football is a dominant force on campus and with alumni. I used Alabama, Ohio State and Tennessee as examples -- there are probably dozens of others.I guess my evidence is 1) those schools have a history of trying to sweep (less serious) football-related problems under the rug; and 2) one of the big reasons why this was allowed to happen at Penn State was a result of football's prominence on campus, and that same reason exists at those other schools.We certainly can't know for sure what would happen at each campus until it happens, but it doesn't strike me that there is anything particularly unique about Penn State suggesting it could only happen there.

So your plan is to penalize other schools, based on their reputations, for something that happened at Penn State? Good luck with that.

 

[Smack Tripper]

Which comparable schools specifically, and what evidence are you bringing to the table that would suggest that people in positions of authority at these schools would enable a pedophile like they did at Penn State?

By "comparable schools" I'm talking about schools where football is a dominant force on campus and with alumni. I used Alabama, Ohio State and Tennessee as examples -- there are probably dozens of others.I guess my evidence is 1) those schools have a history of trying to sweep (less serious) football-related problems under the rug; and 2) one of the big reasons why this was allowed to happen at Penn State was a result of football's prominence on campus, and that same reason exists at those other schools.We certainly can't know for sure what would happen at each campus until it happens, but it doesn't strike me that there is anything particularly unique about Penn State suggesting it could only happen there.

What is unique is Joe's holier than thou attitude.

 

[timschochet]

After this report, there can be no more legitimate defense of Joe Paterno's actions. I apologize for my defense of him earlier.

 

[Smack Tripper]

After this report, there can be no more legitimate defense of Joe Paterno's actions. I apologize for my defense of him earlier.

 

[Todd Andrews]

After this report, there can be no more legitimate defense of Joe Paterno's actions. I apologize for my defense of him earlier.

Thank you. More people should be this honest.

 

[The Commish]

If these places are problems just waiting to happen, it doesn't seem like we should wait to hear about all the bad stuff before taking steps.

The right step, imo, is to come down HARD on those who are caught. Kill a program (temporarily) like PSU and you send a powerful message to all other universities.

Yes, the message is "don't get caught." It seems like Penn State already had that message. That's what allowed this situation to continue.

The message should be, "Come forward, and the penalty will be firm but reasonable. Don't come forward, and the penalty will be harsh and merciless."

Yeah, the NCAA doesn't have a chance in getting that message across. It's not the bed they've made.

 

[Joe Summer]

All I've got to say is that the people yelling "CHILD RAPE ENABLER" turned out to be right all along.

 

[Wrighteous Ray]

So your plan is to penalize other schools, based on their reputations, for something that happened at Penn State? Good luck with that.

I don't have a "plan." This is all a response to discussion in this thread:1) Folks are saying "shut down the football program." 2) Other folks said "that doesn't make sense -- it just hurts a bunch of people that didn't do anything wrong." 3) The first people responded with "it doesn't matter that shutting down the football program would not punish the culpable parties -- it needs to be done to change the culture of the university."That's what I was responding to. If shutting down football is a punishment, then it seems like a bad one, because the impact would be felt almost exclusively by people uninvolved with the Sandusky scandal. If shutting down football is just an attempt to change university culture, it seems equally applicable to dozens of other schools.

 

[RUSF18]

Which comparable schools specifically, and what evidence are you bringing to the table that would suggest that people in positions of authority at these schools would enable a pedophile like they did at Penn State?

By "comparable schools" I'm talking about schools where football is a dominant force on campus and with alumni. I used Alabama, Ohio State and Tennessee as examples -- there are probably dozens of others.I guess my evidence is 1) those schools have a history of trying to sweep (less serious) football-related problems under the rug; and 2) one of the big reasons why this was allowed to happen at Penn State was a result of football's prominence on campus, and that same reason exists at those other schools.

We certainly can't know for sure what would happen at each campus until it happens, but it doesn't strike me that there is anything particularly unique about Penn State suggesting it could only happen there.

Completely agree with this.

I disagree. Those other schools don't have Joe Paterno. I honestly don't think we get to this point if Paterno retired in the mid 90s, another coach came in, and everything with Sandusky came to light. That coach wouldn't have had the power to "protect the program" like Paterno even if he wanted to. If it gets reported at the beginning, it's obviously a huge hit to the school's and the program's reputation, but that passes especially with swift action. Do you really think Nick Saban is untouchable at Alabama? Why? If they fired him and hired Jon Gruden they would still continue to print money and win titles. Hell, talk to Arkansas fans...they thought Petrino was untouchable and he didn't have anywhere near the success of Saban. Didn't take much for him to go down.

 

[Wrighteous Ray]

We certainly can't know for sure what would happen at each campus until it happens, but it doesn't strike me that there is anything particularly unique about Penn State suggesting it could only happen there.

Completely agree with this.

I disagree. Those other schools don't have Joe Paterno.

Well, neither does Penn State anymore so I guess there's no need to shut down football there. We might want to shut down Duke basketball though. Coach K has sort of a Paterno-like reputation.

 

[Todd Andrews]

Sick. Just sick. From the report:

The evidence shows that Mr. Paterno was made aware of the 1998 investigation of Sandusky, followed it closely, but failed to take any action, even though Sandusky had been a key member of his coaching staff for almost 30 years, and had an office just steps away from Mr. Paterno’s. At the very least, Mr. Paterno could have alerted the entire football staff, in order to prevent Sandusky from bringing another child into the Lasch Building. Messrs. Spanier, Schultz, Paterno and Curley also failed to alert the Board of Trustees about the 1998 investigation or take any further action against Mr. Sandusky. None of them even spoke to Sandusky about his conduct. In short, nothing was done and Sandusky was allowed to continue with impunity.



Messrs. Spanier, Schultz, Paterno and Curley never demonstrated, through actions or words, any concern for the safety and well-being of Sandusky’s victims until after Sandusky’s arrest... In order to avoid the consequences of bad publicity, the most powerful leaders at Penn State University...repeatedly concealed critical facts relating to Sandusky’s child abuse.

 

[CrossEyed]

If these places are problems just waiting to happen, it doesn't seem like we should wait to hear about all the bad stuff before taking steps.

The right step, imo, is to come down HARD on those who are caught. Kill a program (temporarily) like PSU and you send a powerful message to all other universities.

Yes, the message is "don't get caught." It seems like Penn State already had that message. That's what allowed this situation to continue.

The message should be, "Come forward, and the penalty will be firm but reasonable. Don't come forward, and the penalty will be harsh and merciless."

Yeah, the NCAA doesn't have a chance in getting that message across. It's not the bed they've made.

Beds can be changed. This would be a great time to start.

 

[Smack Tripper]

So your plan is to penalize other schools, based on their reputations, for something that happened at Penn State? Good luck with that.

I don't have a "plan." This is all a response to discussion in this thread:1) Folks are saying "shut down the football program."

2) Other folks said "that doesn't make sense -- it just hurts a bunch of people that didn't do anything wrong."

3) The first people responded with "it doesn't matter that shutting down the football program would not punish the culpable parties -- it needs to be done to change the culture of the university."

That's what I was responding to. If shutting down football is a punishment, then it seems like a bad one, because the impact would be felt almost exclusively by people uninvolved with the Sandusky scandal. If shutting down football is just an attempt to change university culture, it seems equally applicable to dozens of other schools.

Well, not quite equally. If you can't separate a testosterone charged teenager getting into a fight or a recruit taking some money, with what happened here, I don't know what to tell you.

I do agree, its not like its impossible this can't happen elsewhere. Numbers would dictate it HAS happened SOMEWHERE. But lets get real here. This was systemic abuse that was facilitated in multiple ways BY the football program, from the status of proximity functioning as a magnet to these kids, to actually using the fieldhouse for the abuse. I mean, I don't know what to say.

I do understand what you're getting at, and I think the message would be served and heard by all I do hope, but some things are worse than others. And this is basically the worst thing.

 

[Wrighteous Ray]

It's a big investment of time, but reading the whole report is really illuminating. The guys at the top, including Paterno, appear to have been big fat liars about stuff. Claiming they didn't know about the 1998 incident, claiming that McQueary just said Sandusky was "horsing around" in the shower, claiming that there weren't subsequent conversations about what to do after the 2001 incident, using code words in emails to try to protect themselves. Just reading the summary doesn't really give the full flavor.

 

[tri-man 47]

Shutting down the Penn State football program would send one hell of a message to other schools. I don't know if that is the right move or not, but I would not be opposed to making an example out of them.

That part is critical. Like with any crime, enforcing a penalty sends a message to others. If they don't shut down the program, it lets other schools know that football programs still trump all else. This case goes so far beyond other transgressions ...they have to come down hard.

 

[culdeus]

How is Schultz not indictable? Lawyers?

Were any of the PSU people offered deals to testify if needed?

 

[Premier]

After this report, there can be no more legitimate defense of Joe Paterno's actions. I apologize for my defense of him earlier.

Thank you. More people should be this honest.

at thank you. As if you're the one harmed here. It's not about you Todd.

 

[timschochet]

Shutting down the Penn State football program would send one hell of a message to other schools. I don't know if that is the right move or not, but I would not be opposed to making an example out of them.

That part is critical. Like with any crime, enforcing a penalty sends a message to others. If they don't shut down the program, it lets other schools know that football programs still trump all else. This case goes so far beyond other transgressions ...they have to come down hard.

Upon reflection...I have to agree. At this point allowing the football program to continue is a terrible message to send. If I'm the president of that university, I would declare an end to the football program as of today, and forfeit all games this year. Doubt this will happen though.

 

[Plorfu]

After this report, there can be no more legitimate defense of Joe Paterno's actions. I apologize for my defense of him earlier.

This report was definitely the turning point in the Penn State scandal.

 

[Todd Andrews]

After this report, there can be no more legitimate defense of Joe Paterno's actions. I apologize for my defense of him earlier.

Thank you. More people should be this honest.

at thank you. As if you're the one harmed here. It's not about you Todd.

I am thanking him for having the courage to come post that, not for doing anything for me personally. I criticize Tim heavily for being the spineless soulless coward he is so when he does step up I believe he should also be recognized.

 

[RBM]

After this report, there can be no more legitimate defense of Joe Paterno's actions. I apologize for my defense of him earlier.

I havent posted in here but I took the same stance as you, and now regret that stance. What a disgrace.

 

[Wrighteous Ray]

The guy that started this thread only has 25 posts total. Gotta be a record for somebody with that few posts to start such a long thread.

 

[Dragons]

How is Schultz not indictable? Lawyers?Were any of the PSU people offered deals to testify if needed?

Schultz (and Curley) has been indicted on perjury charges. What's most alarming is Spanier hasn't been charged with anything, yet. I would suspect that all 3 should be prepared for more charges to come in the near future.Do they charge people posthumously?

 

[culdeus]

When they shut down SMU for a few years the main change was programs went from an arms race of Thunderbirds and Vettes to an arms race of indoor practice facilities and Xbox-es in locker rooms. This was followed by BILLION dollar TV deals and all the risk that such a scandal could force on you.

The lack of institutional control of athletics on campus has to stop. And if not for this then for the rampant corruption that such a system breeds. These programs are taking in hundreds of millions, and for what? Maybe in an ideal world the genie can go back in the bottle. Doubtful.

 

[timschochet]

After this report, there can be no more legitimate defense of Joe Paterno's actions. I apologize for my defense of him earlier.

This report was definitely the turning point in the Penn State scandal.

Please don't. I know people like to make fun of me in this forum, but this isn't the right time for it.

 

[timschochet]

And how bad would it have been to expose Sandusky in 1998? It would have been an ugly incident, probably hurt recruiting for a year or two, and then Penn State would have continued on without too much blemish. Paterno's legacy would have been intact.

So not only is this morally reprehensible beyond belief, it was also incredibly stupid and short-sided.

 

[Todd Andrews]

And how bad would it have been to expose Sandusky in 1998? It would have been an ugly incident, probably hurt recruiting for a year or two, and then Penn State would have continued on without too much blemish. Paterno's legacy would have been intact. So not only is this morally reprehensible beyond belief, it was also incredibly stupid and short-sided.

It is criminal child rape enabling. It is far beyond morally reprehensible, stupid and short sighted.

 

[timschochet]

And how bad would it have been to expose Sandusky in 1998? It would have been an ugly incident, probably hurt recruiting for a year or two, and then Penn State would have continued on without too much blemish. Paterno's legacy would have been intact. So not only is this morally reprehensible beyond belief, it was also incredibly stupid and short-sided.

It is criminal child rape enabling. It is far beyond morally reprehensible, stupid and short sighted.

Yes. I was only trying to point out that the "reasons" behind it were incredibly stupid as well.

 

[Limp Ditka]

SportsPickle ‏@sportspickleI understand the push to tear down Paterno's statue. But in fairness: the statue did more to protect kids than Joe Paterno did.

 

[Wrighteous Ray]

And how bad would it have been to expose Sandusky in 1998? It would have been an ugly incident, probably hurt recruiting for a year or two, and then Penn State would have continued on without too much blemish. Paterno's legacy would have been intact. So not only is this morally reprehensible beyond belief, it was also incredibly stupid and short-sided.

Reading the report makes the failure to report the 1998 incident at the time pretty understandable, actually. Sandusky's behavior as reported by the kid came across as inappropriate and strange, but it really wasn't clear that it was abusive. I can imagine being wary about turning over a long-time friend and employee over something ambiguous like that. If Sandusky was just a guy with some questionable boundary issues, you're basically destroying his life.Once the incident McQueary witnessed happened, though, the 1998 incidents would be viewed in a very different light.

 

[Rayderr]

SportsPickle ‏@sportspickleI understand the push to tear down Paterno's statue. But in fairness: the statue did more to protect kids than Joe Paterno did.

 

[Dragons]

And how bad would it have been to expose Sandusky in 1998? It would have been an ugly incident, probably hurt recruiting for a year or two, and then Penn State would have continued on without too much blemish. Paterno's legacy would have been intact. So not only is this morally reprehensible beyond belief, it was also incredibly stupid and short-sided.

The 1998 investigation did not involve Penn State, other than them being notified and then told there was not enough evidence to press charges by the Pennsylvania AG.

 

[Borat]

SportsPickle ‏@sportspickleI understand the push to tear down Paterno's statue. But in fairness: the statue did more to protect kids than Joe Paterno did.

 

[TexanFan02]

And how bad would it have been to expose Sandusky in 1998? It would have been an ugly incident, probably hurt recruiting for a year or two, and then Penn State would have continued on without too much blemish. Paterno's legacy would have been intact. So not only is this morally reprehensible beyond belief, it was also incredibly stupid and short-sided.

Reading the report makes the failure to report the 1998 incident at the time pretty understandable, actually. Sandusky's behavior as reported by the kid came across as inappropriate and strange, but it really wasn't clear that it was abusive. I can imagine being wary about turning over a long-time friend and employee over something ambiguous like that. If Sandusky was just a guy with some questionable boundary issues, you're basically destroying his life.Once the incident McQueary witnessed happened, though, the 1998 incidents would be viewed in a very different light.

Sounds like they were. They made the decision to try to get him to help himself, and inform 2nd Mile. Didn't work out so good. That's essentially what Paterno said.

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

Penn State deserves the Death Penalty.

 

[Joe Summer]

And how bad would it have been to expose Sandusky in 1998? It would have been an ugly incident, probably hurt recruiting for a year or two, and then Penn State would have continued on without too much blemish. Paterno's legacy would have been intact.

So not only is this morally reprehensible beyond belief, it was also incredibly stupid and short-sided.

The 1998 investigation did not involve Penn State, other than them being notified and then told there was not enough evidence to press charges by the Pennsylvania AG.

The 1998 assault took place on PSU's campus, and a university police detective was part of the investigation. So yes, I would say that it did involve Penn State.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

I agree with FatGuy with respect to shutting down the football program. All that accomplishes is punishing a bunch of people who didn't have anything to do with this, creating a second group of victims. I agree that it's important to send a message about not letting the football program take priority over stopping child molestation, but the way to send that message is to send Curley and Spanier to prison, and to remove Joe Paterno's name from the Penn State campus.

 

[Rayderr]

Penn State deserves the Death Penalty.

I think this might be the first time I actually agree with you.

 

[mad sweeney]

And how bad would it have been to expose Sandusky in 1998? It would have been an ugly incident, probably hurt recruiting for a year or two, and then Penn State would have continued on without too much blemish. Paterno's legacy would have been intact. So not only is this morally reprehensible beyond belief, it was also incredibly stupid and short-sided.

It is criminal child rape enabling. It is far beyond morally reprehensible, stupid and short sighted.

I think morally reprehensible is a pretty good phrase for it.

 

[Yankee23Fan]

Penn State deserves the Death Penalty.

I never thought the day would ever come where I typed this, but I agree with you. I've stayed away from this thread because this whole is sickening. I get that killing the football program would injur people that were completely innocent of what happened here, but frankly, so what. Playing college football is not a right under any definition of the word. Nor is it something that should be measured and weighed against what happened to the victims of Sandusky.There needs to be a message to all these high profile programs that in the end, you are not more important than the rule of law and common decency. For all the nonsense the NCAA pulls with its moronic rules I would applaud them if they shut this program down for a year as a penalty and would be ok with it being more than a year.

 

[Wrighteous Ray]

And how bad would it have been to expose Sandusky in 1998? It would have been an ugly incident, probably hurt recruiting for a year or two, and then Penn State would have continued on without too much blemish. Paterno's legacy would have been intact.

So not only is this morally reprehensible beyond belief, it was also incredibly stupid and short-sided.

The 1998 investigation did not involve Penn State, other than them being notified and then told there was not enough evidence to press charges by the Pennsylvania AG.

The 1998 assault took place on PSU's campus, and a university police detective was part of the investigation. So yes, I would say that it did involve Penn State.

Shultz, Curley and Spanier also exchanged numerous emails about it at the time, some referencing Paterno, who also apparently knew about it.