Dr. Awesome
Footballguy
Reports are the NCAA is going to come down with unprecedented sanctions. More details will come out tomorrow.
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Jerry Sandusky accused of child molestation (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter PoliSciGuy
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identikit
Footballguy
per CBS News, 'unprecedented penalties against Penn State' coming Monday :
(CBS News) CBS News has learned that the NCAA will announce what a high-ranking association source called "unprecedented" penalties against both the Penn State University football team and the school.
"I've never seen anything like it," the source told correspondent Armen Keteyian.
NCAA President Mark Emmert will make the announcement Monday morning at 9 a.m. at the organization's headquarters in Indianapolis.
The penalties come in the wake of the independent report by former FBI Director Louis Freeh that chronicled repeated efforts by four top Penn State officials, including former football Joe Paterno, to conceal allegations of serial child sex abuse Jerry Sandusky over a 14-year period.
The NCAA had been awaiting the school's response to four key questions pertaining to the sex abuse scandal, including issues involving institutional control and ethics.
My link
(CBS News) CBS News has learned that the NCAA will announce what a high-ranking association source called "unprecedented" penalties against both the Penn State University football team and the school.
"I've never seen anything like it," the source told correspondent Armen Keteyian.
NCAA President Mark Emmert will make the announcement Monday morning at 9 a.m. at the organization's headquarters in Indianapolis.
The penalties come in the wake of the independent report by former FBI Director Louis Freeh that chronicled repeated efforts by four top Penn State officials, including former football Joe Paterno, to conceal allegations of serial child sex abuse Jerry Sandusky over a 14-year period.
The NCAA had been awaiting the school's response to four key questions pertaining to the sex abuse scandal, including issues involving institutional control and ethics.
My link
Furious Styles
Footballguy
Nice move
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
Considering the NCAA killed SMU's football program entirely I'm having a hard time imagining what 'unprecedented' means. The Death Penalty + other punishments aimed at the University itself?
Rayderr
Footballguy
The team has to wear pink jerseys. That's unprecedented. Unprecedented can really mean anything.
identikit
Footballguy
SMU football didn't stay dead.
CrossEyed
Footballguy
Yeah, I'll hold my applause for the NCAA until I see what they actually do.
Sea Duck
Footballguy
Predictions? I'm thinking that the program WON'T get the death penalty, but they'll get a TV ban/bowl ban/recruiting ban, maybe a loss of some scholarships, and they'll be ordered to donate a portion of ticket sales to child abuse charities.
timschochet
Footballguy
http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/8188629/penn-state-nittany-lions-not-facing-death-penalty-monday-ncaa-source-says
NCAA president Mark Emmert has decided to punish Penn State with severe penalties likely to include a significant loss of scholarships and loss of multiple bowls, a source close to the decision told ESPN's Joe Schad on Sunday morning.
But Penn State will not receive the so-called "death penalty" that would have suspended the program for at least one year, the source said.
The penalties, however, are considered to be so harsh that the death penalty may have been preferable, the source said.
The NCAA will announce "corrective and punitive measures" for Penn State on Monday morning, it said in a statement Sunday. Emmert will reveal the sanctions at 9 a.m. ET in Indianapolis at the organization's headquarters along with Ed Ray, the chairman of the NCAA's executive committee and Oregon State's president, the news release said.
It is expected the NCAA Division I Board of Directors and/or the NCAA Executive Committee has granted Emmert the authority to punish through non-traditional methods, the source told Schad.
The NCAA's announcement will follow a day after Penn State removed Joe Paterno's statue outside Beaver Stadium, a decision that came 10 days after the scathing report by former FBI director Louis J. Freeh found that Paterno, with three other top Penn State administrators, had concealed allegations of child sexual abuse made against former defensive coordinator Jerry Sandusky. The Freeh report concluded their motive was to shield the university and its football program from negative publicity.
The NCAA is taking unprecedented measures with the decision to penalize Penn State without the due process of a Committee on Infractions hearing.
The NCAA has a system in place in which it conducts its own investigations, issues a notice of allegations and then allows the university 90 days to respond before a hearing is scheduled.
Following the hearing, the Infractions Committee then usually takes a minimum of six weeks but it can last into upwards of a year to issue its findings.
But in the case of Penn State, the NCAA appears to be using the Freeh report -- commissioned by the school's board of trustees -- instead of its own investigation, before handing down sanctions.
A former committee on infractions chair and current Division I appeals committee member told ESPN.com's Andy Katz the NCAA's penalizing of an institution and program for immoral and criminal behavior also breaks new ground.
The former chair, who has been involved with the NCAA for nearly three decades, said he couldn't use his name on the record since the case could come before him and the committee he still serves on in an appeals process.
"This is unique and this kind of power has never been tested or tried,'' said the former chair. "It's unprecedented to have this extensive power. This has nothing to do with the purpose of the infractions process. Nevertheless, somehow (the NCAA president and executive board) have taken it on themselves to be a commissioner and to penalize a school for improper conduct.''
NCAA presidents past and present have made a point of saying they are not akin to a commissioner in professional sports and don't have the power to penalize players, coaches or schools independently.
The former chair said the only "rule" that the NCAA could be holding onto here is a lack of institutional control.
"I would be surprised if they're treating this as simply a lack of institutional control under the rules,'' said the former chair. "Because then that would technically go through the committee.''
The chair said that the NCAA is choosing to do deal with a case that is outside the traditional rules or violations. He said this case does not fall within the basic fundamental purpose of NCAA regulations.
"The purpose of the NCAA is to keep a level playing field among schools and to make sure they use proper methods through scholarships and etc,'' the chair said. "This is not a case that would normally go through the process. It has nothing to do with a level playing field. It has nothing to do with whether Penn State gets advantages over other schools in recruiting or in the number of coaches or things that we normally deal with.''
The former chair said as an example the NCAA didn't get involved in the murder of Yeardley Love, a women's lacrosse player at Virginia, by her former boyfriend, a male lacrosse player at Virginia.
"The real question is whether or not under the overall rules and regulations of the NCAA do those in charge take action when it doesn't fall within the scope and realm of the normal infractions process,'' said the former chair. "This has nothing to do with a level playing field or competition. The NCAA is a voluntary organization and the schools sign on to be bound by the NCAA rules and regulations.''
The chair added that the only connection to athletics was that the department was lenient to Sandusky and that some of his crimes were committed at the Penn State football facility.
"But this has nothing to do with NCAA business,'' said the former chair. "This is new. If they're going to deal with situations of this kind that have nothing to do with the games of who plays and so on and rather deal with members of the athletic department who act immorally or criminally then it opens up the door to other cases.''
The NCAA, the chair said, didn't get involved in punishing the school for criminal behavior.
"The criminal courts are perfectly capable of handling these situations,'' said the former chair. "This is a new phase and a new thing. They are getting into bad behavior that are somehow connected to those who work in the athletic department.
"This is an important precedent,'' said the chair. "And it should be taken with extreme care.''
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Have no fear, Penn State! Christo says you can fight this and you'll win!
NCAA president Mark Emmert has decided to punish Penn State with severe penalties likely to include a significant loss of scholarships and loss of multiple bowls, a source close to the decision told ESPN's Joe Schad on Sunday morning.
But Penn State will not receive the so-called "death penalty" that would have suspended the program for at least one year, the source said.
The penalties, however, are considered to be so harsh that the death penalty may have been preferable, the source said.
The NCAA will announce "corrective and punitive measures" for Penn State on Monday morning, it said in a statement Sunday. Emmert will reveal the sanctions at 9 a.m. ET in Indianapolis at the organization's headquarters along with Ed Ray, the chairman of the NCAA's executive committee and Oregon State's president, the news release said.
It is expected the NCAA Division I Board of Directors and/or the NCAA Executive Committee has granted Emmert the authority to punish through non-traditional methods, the source told Schad.
The NCAA's announcement will follow a day after Penn State removed Joe Paterno's statue outside Beaver Stadium, a decision that came 10 days after the scathing report by former FBI director Louis J. Freeh found that Paterno, with three other top Penn State administrators, had concealed allegations of child sexual abuse made against former defensive coordinator Jerry Sandusky. The Freeh report concluded their motive was to shield the university and its football program from negative publicity.
The NCAA is taking unprecedented measures with the decision to penalize Penn State without the due process of a Committee on Infractions hearing.
The NCAA has a system in place in which it conducts its own investigations, issues a notice of allegations and then allows the university 90 days to respond before a hearing is scheduled.
Following the hearing, the Infractions Committee then usually takes a minimum of six weeks but it can last into upwards of a year to issue its findings.
But in the case of Penn State, the NCAA appears to be using the Freeh report -- commissioned by the school's board of trustees -- instead of its own investigation, before handing down sanctions.
A former committee on infractions chair and current Division I appeals committee member told ESPN.com's Andy Katz the NCAA's penalizing of an institution and program for immoral and criminal behavior also breaks new ground.
The former chair, who has been involved with the NCAA for nearly three decades, said he couldn't use his name on the record since the case could come before him and the committee he still serves on in an appeals process.
"This is unique and this kind of power has never been tested or tried,'' said the former chair. "It's unprecedented to have this extensive power. This has nothing to do with the purpose of the infractions process. Nevertheless, somehow (the NCAA president and executive board) have taken it on themselves to be a commissioner and to penalize a school for improper conduct.''
NCAA presidents past and present have made a point of saying they are not akin to a commissioner in professional sports and don't have the power to penalize players, coaches or schools independently.
The former chair said the only "rule" that the NCAA could be holding onto here is a lack of institutional control.
"I would be surprised if they're treating this as simply a lack of institutional control under the rules,'' said the former chair. "Because then that would technically go through the committee.''
The chair said that the NCAA is choosing to do deal with a case that is outside the traditional rules or violations. He said this case does not fall within the basic fundamental purpose of NCAA regulations.
"The purpose of the NCAA is to keep a level playing field among schools and to make sure they use proper methods through scholarships and etc,'' the chair said. "This is not a case that would normally go through the process. It has nothing to do with a level playing field. It has nothing to do with whether Penn State gets advantages over other schools in recruiting or in the number of coaches or things that we normally deal with.''
The former chair said as an example the NCAA didn't get involved in the murder of Yeardley Love, a women's lacrosse player at Virginia, by her former boyfriend, a male lacrosse player at Virginia.
"The real question is whether or not under the overall rules and regulations of the NCAA do those in charge take action when it doesn't fall within the scope and realm of the normal infractions process,'' said the former chair. "This has nothing to do with a level playing field or competition. The NCAA is a voluntary organization and the schools sign on to be bound by the NCAA rules and regulations.''
The chair added that the only connection to athletics was that the department was lenient to Sandusky and that some of his crimes were committed at the Penn State football facility.
"But this has nothing to do with NCAA business,'' said the former chair. "This is new. If they're going to deal with situations of this kind that have nothing to do with the games of who plays and so on and rather deal with members of the athletic department who act immorally or criminally then it opens up the door to other cases.''
The NCAA, the chair said, didn't get involved in punishing the school for criminal behavior.
"The criminal courts are perfectly capable of handling these situations,'' said the former chair. "This is a new phase and a new thing. They are getting into bad behavior that are somehow connected to those who work in the athletic department.
"This is an important precedent,'' said the chair. "And it should be taken with extreme care.''
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Have no fear, Penn State! Christo says you can fight this and you'll win!
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
If I was the NCAA, I don't think I would pick this particular moment to throw due process and my normal procedures out the window. They're going out on a limb here by pursuing this issue at all. Making up procedure as they go along just makes that limb thinner.
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
People are just stupid. Would love to hear the NCAA clown show someone where a lacrosse coach, athletic director, or President attempted to coverup the murder at UVA. Apples and Oranges.
The Flying Elvis
Footballguy
Not sure how reliable this rumor is but 5 year bowl ban, 60 scholarships reduced. 3 year tv ban.... Not sure if this was gotten from message boards etc but I know the person who posted it where I read is very close to former Penn St. staff/coaches.
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Actually, this is probably the right moment - they appear to have taken the death penalty off the table, and PSU is in no position to really challenge this from a PR perspective (not that they have shown much PR acumen in the past). PSU has no real defense to the charges - only a question of whether that falls within the purview of the NCAA. Of course PSU can choose to leave the NCAA if it does not like how it is treated...
All this demonstrates is that the NCAA knows it does not have the basis under its rules to sanction PSU. If it had a basis it would take its time, prove its case and bring the hammer down. All the NCAA has is public outrage and its hope that PSU takes its medicine.
pantherclub
Footballguy
Honestly how the eff would you know what the NCAA can penalize for? Honestly you come across as someone who just wants to argue whenever there is some sort of consensus on this board.
I read its rules.
timschochet
Footballguy
As I wrote before, they can pretty much do whatever they want in this situation, and there's not a chance in hell Penn State will challenge it, your arguments notwithstanding.
fatness
Footballguy
The talk on Baltimore sports radio this morning included mention of groups of "large donors" to Penn State who were going to withhold their donations now that Paterno's statue has been taken down.
I'm not sure how you confirm something like that, but if it's true I think it's appropriate. The donors should pool their funds, buy some land if they don't already own enough, and start their own university.
The donors who donated $650,000 to build and erect Paterno can ask for their money back, be given the statue instead, and erect it on their new campus. And Paterno University will be born. They can worry about things like courses, accreditation, and faculty later. They'll have the 3 things they need most: money, a hero, and righteous indignation. The rest is details.
I'm not sure how you confirm something like that, but if it's true I think it's appropriate. The donors should pool their funds, buy some land if they don't already own enough, and start their own university.
The donors who donated $650,000 to build and erect Paterno can ask for their money back, be given the statue instead, and erect it on their new campus. And Paterno University will be born. They can worry about things like courses, accreditation, and faculty later. They'll have the 3 things they need most: money, a hero, and righteous indignation. The rest is details.
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You keep saying this as if I didn't acknowledge the possibility in one of my very first posts on the subject.
ConstruxBoy
Kate's Daddy
I'd say something like this is fair:2012 - TV Ban, Bowl ban, 15 scholarships lost, 80% of revenue to charity2013 - Bowl ban, 10 scholarships lost, 60 % of revenue to charity2014 - 5 scholarships lost, 40% of revenue to charity2015 - 20% of revenue to charity
ConstruxBoy
Kate's Daddy
That's way too harsh, IMO
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
The revenue is irrelevant. PSU has two billion dollars in endowment to make up for that. That would be an extremely weak penalty, IMO. But I know you're interested in protecting the factory too.
Smack Tripper
Footballguy
PLEASE, that would be getting off easy. You should take that and run, that keeps your program in tact. I would personally make this a band-aid. Rip it off and move on. Years and years of sanction mean little to me, one year, shut down would be ok with me. I truly don't want to impair the program and muddy the water of a mixed message here with TV or bowl bans or any of that crap. That should be reserved for recruitment issues. To me, the penalty, to make it stick to make it something memorable and impact, would be to shut the show down. To show, not in a symbollic manner, but a very real one, that football is NOT bigger than people. One is fine, two would be nice, but One honestly works for me, and see ya in 2013. This is a different issue than standard violations and should be respected and treated as such.
Mario Kart
Footballguy
I still think a ten year ban would be good. Similar to the amount of time the cover up was going on. Eye for an eye.
For those of you who are inclined to paint everyone and everything associated with Penn State with a broad brush, enjoy your binary "black-and-white" world view.
For many of us, the last 265 or so days have been like a shadow world where we've seen our university shaken to its' foundation, our leaders (past and present) fail miserably, and a seemingly insatiable feeding frenzy/blood thirst shape a relatively one-dimensional narrative where external forces seem to trip over themselves in a twisted game of one-upmanship to find new ways to express both real and faux outrage. A cult? Really? The university fired Spanier & Paterno? Not enough! Sandusky is going to spend the rest of his life in jail? Not enough! The Freeh report confirms that leaders of the university exercised as poor judgment as can be reasonably imagined? Not enough. TAKE DOWN THE STATUE! RENAME THE LIBRARY! STOP SELLING PEACHY PATERNO! GIVE THEM THE DEATH PENALTY! VACATE WINS SINCE 1998! REMOVE THE LETTER "P" FROM THE ALPHABET SO NO ONE CAN EVER EVEN SPELL PATERNO EVER AGAIN!
When (and where) does it end?
As a PSU alumnus, I can tell you the football program is the least of my concerns here.
This was an upspeakable tragedy. Jerry Sandusky is a monster, and if he breathes his last breath sooner rather than later it can't be soon enough for me. As a parent, it saddens me beyond the words I have to express it to think of what Sandusky's victims went through and the impact that has had and will continue to have over the rest of their lives.
To the extent that Spanier, Shultz, and Curley were in a position to do something and failed, I hope they are brought to justice in both this world and the next.
As for Paterno, his failing here is deep and (in my opinion) uncharacteristic.
Do I think he knew about 1998? Yes. I believe he became aware of the investigation that led to no charges being filed against Sandusky.
Do I think he should have exerted more influence to make sure something was done in 2001? Absolutely. All kinds of alarms should go off for a reasonable person at this point, especially with the knowledge that something similar had occurred just three years earlier.
Do I buy that he "reported this to his superiors", and that was the extent of his moral responsibility? No.
Do I think he purposely covered this up to protect his football program? No, I do not. I think it more likely that he thought that he could "control" this like he controlled everything else and that the sheer force of his will (directly or indirectly) could keep Sandusky in line. If this is true, it was a horrible and tragic assessment.
So here we are now, 8+ months later. Paterno is dead. Sandusky is in jail. Curley & Shultz will soon have their own day in court. The statue is down, the hagiography muted. And the university now faces unprecedented sanctions, in the absence of (and likely with the university president having waived) anything resembling reasonable due process.
The facts we already know are terrible. There are likely facts we do not yet know some of which will probably paint things in an even more negative light and some of which might serve to add nuance and context to some of what we think we already fully understand. At the least, Governor Corbett's involvement and actions as both AG and trustee are curious at best.
I'll ask the same question I did on page 37 of this thread. Where will this end? If we give the entire athletic department the death penalty and vacate the last 100+ of Paterno's wins and donate the entire university endowment to victim's groups, will that be enough?
For many of us, the last 265 or so days have been like a shadow world where we've seen our university shaken to its' foundation, our leaders (past and present) fail miserably, and a seemingly insatiable feeding frenzy/blood thirst shape a relatively one-dimensional narrative where external forces seem to trip over themselves in a twisted game of one-upmanship to find new ways to express both real and faux outrage. A cult? Really? The university fired Spanier & Paterno? Not enough! Sandusky is going to spend the rest of his life in jail? Not enough! The Freeh report confirms that leaders of the university exercised as poor judgment as can be reasonably imagined? Not enough. TAKE DOWN THE STATUE! RENAME THE LIBRARY! STOP SELLING PEACHY PATERNO! GIVE THEM THE DEATH PENALTY! VACATE WINS SINCE 1998! REMOVE THE LETTER "P" FROM THE ALPHABET SO NO ONE CAN EVER EVEN SPELL PATERNO EVER AGAIN!
When (and where) does it end?
As a PSU alumnus, I can tell you the football program is the least of my concerns here.
This was an upspeakable tragedy. Jerry Sandusky is a monster, and if he breathes his last breath sooner rather than later it can't be soon enough for me. As a parent, it saddens me beyond the words I have to express it to think of what Sandusky's victims went through and the impact that has had and will continue to have over the rest of their lives.
To the extent that Spanier, Shultz, and Curley were in a position to do something and failed, I hope they are brought to justice in both this world and the next.
As for Paterno, his failing here is deep and (in my opinion) uncharacteristic.
Do I think he knew about 1998? Yes. I believe he became aware of the investigation that led to no charges being filed against Sandusky.
Do I think he should have exerted more influence to make sure something was done in 2001? Absolutely. All kinds of alarms should go off for a reasonable person at this point, especially with the knowledge that something similar had occurred just three years earlier.
Do I buy that he "reported this to his superiors", and that was the extent of his moral responsibility? No.
Do I think he purposely covered this up to protect his football program? No, I do not. I think it more likely that he thought that he could "control" this like he controlled everything else and that the sheer force of his will (directly or indirectly) could keep Sandusky in line. If this is true, it was a horrible and tragic assessment.
So here we are now, 8+ months later. Paterno is dead. Sandusky is in jail. Curley & Shultz will soon have their own day in court. The statue is down, the hagiography muted. And the university now faces unprecedented sanctions, in the absence of (and likely with the university president having waived) anything resembling reasonable due process.
The facts we already know are terrible. There are likely facts we do not yet know some of which will probably paint things in an even more negative light and some of which might serve to add nuance and context to some of what we think we already fully understand. At the least, Governor Corbett's involvement and actions as both AG and trustee are curious at best.
I'll ask the same question I did on page 37 of this thread. Where will this end? If we give the entire athletic department the death penalty and vacate the last 100+ of Paterno's wins and donate the entire university endowment to victim's groups, will that be enough?
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fatness
Footballguy
After that charity will have to be cut off, before it sucks the lifeblood out of the vital football program.
fatness
Footballguy
Some of the kids Sandusky raped victims will file lawsuits against Penn State, who failed to report things. That'll take years to go through. The kids were the victims here, not Penn State.
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
ConstruxBoy
Kate's Daddy
People like you sadden me.
Thanks for making my point about a binary world view. Of course, there can only be one set of victims here. No one else! Carry on!
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ConstruxBoy
Kate's Daddy
Here's the best part, for people like fatness:Let’s not create new victims. Instead lets ask ourselves, “do I desire punishment for Penn State for my own personal satisfaction, or have I asked the victims what they want, and they told me it was.” If you truly want to do something in your moral outrage, yelling at the TV or via Twitter that “they” should take down a statue or give the death penalty to Penn State doesn’t hold a candle to putting your time and money where your mouth is, and helping actual victims through the innumerable charities available.
CrossEyed
Footballguy
Yeah, what a fortunate turn of events that was.
ConstruxBoy
Kate's Daddy
He's not worth it.
Smack Tripper
Footballguy
Penn State is not unique, but it is a prime example of what happens when football gets too big in any environment. I'm a bit torn tin cup, because I read your impassioned words and my instinct is to have sympathy for you, but at the same time, I'm somewhat shocked by this handwringing over football. A damn football team, and a damn coach, who's actions could not support his words of integrity and "doing things the right way", etc. What will be enough? An awareness and acknowledgement that a game is not bigger than people, and frankly, your attempt to act as a martyr in defense of a college football team show a continued tone deafness to the realities of what happened here and the fact that the very game that you're defending is in, lets hope, complete totality the reason why these crimes were covered up. Penn State could have very well taken its medicine last fall, and canceled those last 2 or 3 games, or whatever it was, AND the bowl game and this would have been a demonstration, to the world and community outside of your, that, ok, maybe these guys get it. And the fans and school WERE aware of how black a moment this was. I mean, really, thinking about now, how Paterno planned to coach in the wake of this happened, how he acted with an oblique defiance on his front lawn that night, and the fact the school was more outraged at his ouster than Sandusky, as far as meaningful public outrage. What will be enough? A shutdown. Keep your money, keep your attempts at self sanctions that are window dressing on keeping this thing going. Maybe a shutdown will offer a time for reflection and a clean slate that will let EVERYONE move forward. If this school goes on, its almost the worst thing that could happen to it, as this incident will never die.Take your punishment, come out anew and no one can say Penn State doesn't "get it". Because they would have gotten it.
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
Perhaps you missed the part of my original post bolded above?In any event, thank you for a thoughtful response. What's been interesting to me about this is that I really don't see "sides" to this. Everyone I've seen thinks Sandusky is evil on Earth. This is an emotionally charged situation, and that energy manifests in different ways for different people.
Peace.
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fatness
Footballguy
Penn State isn't a victim.
fatness
Footballguy
mad sweeney
Footballguy
Of course they are. It's foolish to think that the vast majority of PSU staff, alumni and students aren't impacted by this. They're not near the same category as the abused children and their families but their lives are negatively impacted by this. To think that such a grievous activity can only impact the worst of the victims doesn't make a lick of sense.
fatness
Footballguy
Here's his point ---- that Sandusky's victims need to confront the statue of Joe Paterno in order to achieve peace and wellness.
That's the most twisted reasoning I've seen yet for why the statue should remain up.
Smack Tripper
Footballguy
With all due respect, I fully believe you THINK you mean that, but I think what you supported this thought with runs contrary to an opinion that football hasn't and doesn't rule the roost at Penn State.
I'm not saying you fit into this classfication, but I sense a major undercurrent to the PSU community that these are somehow PSU "haters" coming down on them. I can speak only for myself when I tell you, I'm not. If anything, I held a positive view to the school and Paterno, who wouldn't. I, in fact, support Joe Pa leaving whenever he wanted on his own terms, and I"m pretty sure I'm quoted as such on the board here.
What I'm getting at is, what is the point of your post if its NOT about football? If football is completely secondary, why wonder about any sanction and where it stops? I think there is a pretty substantial divide in what the majority of those in the PSU community think and what those outside of it think. I'm sure there are fringe elements that would say shut the program down and level the stadium but I dont' think thats anywhere close to consensus.
Where it stops is going to be ultimately what the NCAA rules upon. Rock bottom comes tomorrow, like it or not, so there is not much point wondering whats next, unless there is somehow another shoe to drop on the Sandusky front.
But I come back to this, PSU could have been its own biggest supporter if they took care of this fall. That was the real slap in the face, that they could play a damn bowl game, a meaningless one at that, with this over their head, is what I think turned much of the country to an us and them question.
NFLDraftMonster
Footballguy
No MY point was that people who are unrelated to the situation, are venting some personal moral outrage, and using the real victims as a shield to do it.I used an anecdote about my confrontation with an image of my attacker is empowering. I also very specifically typed out that I can't claim to speak for the victims, only empathize. Which is a position those using the victims to further their own outrage here would do well to adopt.
I, for one, hope you are right and that whatever happens tomorrow begins/accelerates some meaningful healing process and provides a clear dividing line between the past and the future.Sadly, I fear it will not. And I don't know what will, if anything ever can.
identikit
Footballguy
Thanks for coming in here to clarify your viewpoint.I posted your article only because of your unique perspective (though not one you asked to have).
Smack Tripper
Footballguy
Here's what I'll see coming, if the penalty doesn't include the death penalty, there will be 3 days to a week of grousing, but after that, whats done is done. I think the statue going is a step in the right direction. People that would be or will be hung up on this, excepting and respecting a total cream puff pass given by the NCAA, are the outliers your can label as "haters". I think the majority will accept whatever comes tomorrow in conjunction with what happened today. It sounds like there will be no death penalty, which to me personally is unfortunate, for PSU as much as anyone. I had long supported PSU giving THEMSELVES the death penalty, even for a short time last year, but certainly for the 2012 season. Had they done that in March, this would not even be an issue now, and very likely, the Paterno statue would stand.
ConstruxBoy
Kate's Daddy
Ditto. Sorry to hear about what happened to you and thanks for sharing it with us.
NFLDraftMonster
Footballguy
No problem, a friend pointed out that my story had been linked here, and I was curious. Thank you for the spport.
ConstruxBoy
Kate's Daddy
One thing about what you call "haters": I do think there are a number of people out there who are much more angry and want destruction of Penn State more than the average person. It seems to me that a whole lot of them are fans of other huge football schools. I didn't understand that at all several months ago. I thought those type of people, more so than the average non-CFB fan, would feel horrible for the victims but understand the conflicted feeling of PSU fans/alumni since they too likely have seen things at their school (less serious than this of course) where football took priority over something else more important. But they haven't acted like that at all. They've acted even more angry than non-CFB folks. However I read/saw something about 3 weeks ago and wish I could remember where. It was someone asking that question (Why do fans of other teams seem so over the top angry), and someone said that human reaction to a "near miss" is generally to get angry and not to have empathy. Empathy comes later, if at all. And to be honest, I've seen that as a parent. I've had a child almost get seriously hurt due to stupidity and immediately screamed at her for it. Only later did I feel bad and say I was sorry. But I was so scared that it could have been a horrible thing, a "near miss" made me angry. So I think this explanation explains the reaction of a lot of those type of fans from huge schools. They know that something like this is (was) at least possible at their school with the football dominate culture. I don't think many schools had AS dominate a singular person in a long time though. Florida State 10 years ago is the only one I can think of. And I personally think that was the issue much more than the general football culture that made this possible more than it would have been at Alabama, USC, Ohio State, or where ever. But if nothing else, I think this will make all schools certain they have a correct decision structure in place. And that's a step in the right direction.
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