Jimmy Smith is retiring (1 Viewer)

[CalBear]

2. That he caught a lot of balls but was never a bigtime TD threat.

Here are some numbers: 19, 18, 20, 14 20, 19, 17, 14, 15, 15. That's the number of TDs thrown by Brunell and Leftwich in the years they played with Jimmy. Some of the years there were some TDs thrown by other QBs, but not enough to change my point. In Jimmy Smith's career there were two seasons were a QB had 20 TDs, and all the rest were under 20. He was never in an offense that would allow him to have bigtime TD numbers. He was not a great goalline threat as a WR but produced a good amount of TDs when you factor in the systems he played in. He had 178 catches over 20 yards, 39 over 40 yards and averaged 14.3 per catch. It's not like was a short yardage, ball control only WR.

If Rice, TO, or Moss played for Jacksonville, there would have been more TDs. Can you imagine Moss getting 116 receptions and only scoring 6 times? It doesn't matter what the offense is, true difference-makers at WR will get in the end zone.

 

[Wadsworth]

2. That he caught a lot of balls but was never a bigtime TD threat.

Here are some numbers: 19, 18, 20, 14 20, 19, 17, 14, 15, 15. That's the number of TDs thrown by Brunell and Leftwich in the years they played with Jimmy. Some of the years there were some TDs thrown by other QBs, but not enough to change my point. In Jimmy Smith's career there were two seasons were a QB had 20 TDs, and all the rest were under 20. He was never in an offense that would allow him to have bigtime TD numbers. He was not a great goalline threat as a WR but produced a good amount of TDs when you factor in the systems he played in. He had 178 catches over 20 yards, 39 over 40 yards and averaged 14.3 per catch. It's not like was a short yardage, ball control only WR.

If Rice, TO, or Moss played for Jacksonville, there would have been more TDs. Can you imagine Moss getting 116 receptions and only scoring 6 times? It doesn't matter what the offense is, true difference-makers at WR will get in the end zone.

Randy Moss had 8 TDs this past season with the Raiders, oddly that was Jimmy's career high. Also oddly, Collins had 20 TD passes which is also right in line with the best a QB throwing to Jimmy ever had. Moss had only 60 catches and just over 1,000 yards, both well under what Jimmy averaged. Yes, Moss battled injury and yes, Randy Moss is a much better redzone WR than Jimmy Smith ever was. But with an inferior QB in an inferior offensive situation Moss's number dropped and were more in line with Jimmy's numbers. While Moss was injured he did start 15 games and played in all 16. It's not like he missed games. Randy Moss likely has the one of the highest TD/reception ratios of any WR ever. He is a great TD maker. I'm not sure how Jimmy getting 116 receptions and only having 6 TDs proves that he's not doing an excellent job. Would he be a better WR if only got 70 receptions with those 6 TDs?

Under Coughlin this past season 3 players tied for the team TD catch lead with 7 TDs. And Eli had 24 TD passes, 4 more than Brunelle ever had. Maybe TC likes to spread the ball around in the redzone?

But I get your point that Randy Moss is a HoF type WR and agree with it. Jimmy never put up the big TD numbers it will be that that likely keeps him out of the Hall. Jimmy never was a great redzone WR, but he also became the forgotten man in the redzone under TC. Maybe it was his talent or maybe it was coaching, but he didn't get many chances. Much like Fred Taylor in the redzone, who also suffers from very good stats but few TDs.

 

[Banger]

2. That he caught a lot of balls but was never a bigtime TD threat.

Here are some numbers: 19, 18, 20, 14 20, 19, 17, 14, 15, 15. That's the number of TDs thrown by Brunell and Leftwich in the years they played with Jimmy. Some of the years there were some TDs thrown by other QBs, but not enough to change my point. In Jimmy Smith's career there were two seasons were a QB had 20 TDs, and all the rest were under 20. He was never in an offense that would allow him to have bigtime TD numbers. He was not a great goalline threat as a WR but produced a good amount of TDs when you factor in the systems he played in. He had 178 catches over 20 yards, 39 over 40 yards and averaged 14.3 per catch. It's not like was a short yardage, ball control only WR.

If Rice, TO, or Moss played for Jacksonville, there would have been more TDs. Can you imagine Moss getting 116 receptions and only scoring 6 times? It doesn't matter what the offense is, true difference-makers at WR will get in the end zone.

Randy Moss had 8 TDs this past season with the Raiders, oddly that was Jimmy's career high. Also oddly, Collins had 20 TD passes which is also right in line with the best a QB throwing to Jimmy ever had. Moss had only 60 catches and just over 1,000 yards, both well under what Jimmy averaged. Yes, Moss battled injury and yes, Randy Moss is a much better redzone WR than Jimmy Smith ever was. But with an inferior QB in an inferior offensive situation Moss's number dropped and were more in line with Jimmy's numbers. While Moss was injured he did start 15 games and played in all 16. It's not like he missed games. Randy Moss likely has the one of the highest TD/reception ratios of any WR ever. He is a great TD maker. I'm not sure how Jimmy getting 116 receptions and only having 6 TDs proves that he's not doing an excellent job. Would he be a better WR if only got 70 receptions with those 6 TDs?

Under Coughlin this past season 3 players tied for the team TD catch lead with 7 TDs. And Eli had 24 TD passes, 4 more than Brunelle ever had. Maybe TC likes to spread the ball around in the redzone?

But I get your point that Randy Moss is a HoF type WR and agree with it. Jimmy never put up the big TD numbers it will be that that likely keeps him out of the Hall. Jimmy never was a great redzone WR, but he also became the forgotten man in the redzone under TC. Maybe it was his talent or maybe it was coaching, but he didn't get many chances. Much like Fred Taylor in the redzone, who also suffers from very good stats but few TDs.

You make some good points but at the end of the day great wr's create td's out of nothing. Give TO or Moss 116 catches in a season and they score 20 tds. Everytime you get the ball in their hands there is a chance that they can take it to the house. This was never the case with Smith and that's the difference.

 

[Wadsworth]

2. That he caught a lot of balls but was never a bigtime TD threat.

Here are some numbers: 19, 18, 20, 14 20, 19, 17, 14, 15, 15. That's the number of TDs thrown by Brunell and Leftwich in the years they played with Jimmy. Some of the years there were some TDs thrown by other QBs, but not enough to change my point. In Jimmy Smith's career there were two seasons were a QB had 20 TDs, and all the rest were under 20. He was never in an offense that would allow him to have bigtime TD numbers. He was not a great goalline threat as a WR but produced a good amount of TDs when you factor in the systems he played in. He had 178 catches over 20 yards, 39 over 40 yards and averaged 14.3 per catch. It's not like was a short yardage, ball control only WR.

If Rice, TO, or Moss played for Jacksonville, there would have been more TDs. Can you imagine Moss getting 116 receptions and only scoring 6 times? It doesn't matter what the offense is, true difference-makers at WR will get in the end zone.

Randy Moss had 8 TDs this past season with the Raiders, oddly that was Jimmy's career high. Also oddly, Collins had 20 TD passes which is also right in line with the best a QB throwing to Jimmy ever had. Moss had only 60 catches and just over 1,000 yards, both well under what Jimmy averaged. Yes, Moss battled injury and yes, Randy Moss is a much better redzone WR than Jimmy Smith ever was. But with an inferior QB in an inferior offensive situation Moss's number dropped and were more in line with Jimmy's numbers. While Moss was injured he did start 15 games and played in all 16. It's not like he missed games. Randy Moss likely has the one of the highest TD/reception ratios of any WR ever. He is a great TD maker. I'm not sure how Jimmy getting 116 receptions and only having 6 TDs proves that he's not doing an excellent job. Would he be a better WR if only got 70 receptions with those 6 TDs?

Under Coughlin this past season 3 players tied for the team TD catch lead with 7 TDs. And Eli had 24 TD passes, 4 more than Brunelle ever had. Maybe TC likes to spread the ball around in the redzone?

But I get your point that Randy Moss is a HoF type WR and agree with it. Jimmy never put up the big TD numbers it will be that that likely keeps him out of the Hall. Jimmy never was a great redzone WR, but he also became the forgotten man in the redzone under TC. Maybe it was his talent or maybe it was coaching, but he didn't get many chances. Much like Fred Taylor in the redzone, who also suffers from very good stats but few TDs.

You make some good points but at the end of the day great wr's create td's out of nothing. Give TO or Moss 116 catches in a season and they score 20 tds. Everytime you get the ball in their hands there is a chance that they can take it to the house. This was never the case with Smith and that's the difference.

So then TDs is the measure of a great WR? I'm not disagreeing just wanting to be clear. Because the TO comparison is an interesting one because his career basically started at the same time as Jimmy's career. In that time frame Jimmy had 146 more catches, 1,752 more yards but 34 fewer TDs(that is a lot). TO averaged 14.7 per catch and Jimmy 14.3. Jimmy had 20 more catches over 20 yards and they were 1 apart in catches over 40 yards. Jimmy also picked 106 more first downs. TO is widely considered a great WR and most would call him a HoF'r. He is also obviously a much better fantasy football WR. But in the real NFL are 34 more TDs that much better than 146 more catches, 1,752 more yards and 106 more first downs? Especially when consider that TO has played his whole career in pass happy offenses.

 

[CalBear]

So then TDs is the measure of a great WR? I'm not disagreeing just wanting to be clear. Because the TO comparison is an interesting one because his career basically started at the same time as Jimmy's career. In that time frame Jimmy had 146 more catches, 1,752 more yards but 34 fewer TDs(that is a lot). TO averaged 14.7 per catch and Jimmy 14.3. Jimmy had 20 more catches over 20 yards and they were 1 apart in catches over 40 yards. Jimmy also picked 106 more first downs.

TO is widely considered a great WR and most would call him a HoF'r. He is also obviously a much better fantasy football WR. But in the real NFL are 34 more TDs that much better than 146 more catches, 1,752 more yards and 106 more first downs? Especially when consider that TO has played his whole career in pass happy offenses.

Jimmy Smith entered the league four years before TO did. In four years, TO will be well ahead of Smith in every category.

 

[Banger]

2. That he caught a lot of balls but was never a bigtime TD threat.

Here are some numbers: 19, 18, 20, 14 20, 19, 17, 14, 15, 15. That's the number of TDs thrown by Brunell and Leftwich in the years they played with Jimmy. Some of the years there were some TDs thrown by other QBs, but not enough to change my point. In Jimmy Smith's career there were two seasons were a QB had 20 TDs, and all the rest were under 20. He was never in an offense that would allow him to have bigtime TD numbers. He was not a great goalline threat as a WR but produced a good amount of TDs when you factor in the systems he played in. He had 178 catches over 20 yards, 39 over 40 yards and averaged 14.3 per catch. It's not like was a short yardage, ball control only WR.

If Rice, TO, or Moss played for Jacksonville, there would have been more TDs. Can you imagine Moss getting 116 receptions and only scoring 6 times? It doesn't matter what the offense is, true difference-makers at WR will get in the end zone.

Randy Moss had 8 TDs this past season with the Raiders, oddly that was Jimmy's career high. Also oddly, Collins had 20 TD passes which is also right in line with the best a QB throwing to Jimmy ever had. Moss had only 60 catches and just over 1,000 yards, both well under what Jimmy averaged. Yes, Moss battled injury and yes, Randy Moss is a much better redzone WR than Jimmy Smith ever was. But with an inferior QB in an inferior offensive situation Moss's number dropped and were more in line with Jimmy's numbers. While Moss was injured he did start 15 games and played in all 16. It's not like he missed games. Randy Moss likely has the one of the highest TD/reception ratios of any WR ever. He is a great TD maker. I'm not sure how Jimmy getting 116 receptions and only having 6 TDs proves that he's not doing an excellent job. Would he be a better WR if only got 70 receptions with those 6 TDs?

Under Coughlin this past season 3 players tied for the team TD catch lead with 7 TDs. And Eli had 24 TD passes, 4 more than Brunelle ever had. Maybe TC likes to spread the ball around in the redzone?

But I get your point that Randy Moss is a HoF type WR and agree with it. Jimmy never put up the big TD numbers it will be that that likely keeps him out of the Hall. Jimmy never was a great redzone WR, but he also became the forgotten man in the redzone under TC. Maybe it was his talent or maybe it was coaching, but he didn't get many chances. Much like Fred Taylor in the redzone, who also suffers from very good stats but few TDs.

You make some good points but at the end of the day great wr's create td's out of nothing. Give TO or Moss 116 catches in a season and they score 20 tds. Everytime you get the ball in their hands there is a chance that they can take it to the house. This was never the case with Smith and that's the difference.

So then TDs is the measure of a great WR? I'm not disagreeing just wanting to be clear. Because the TO comparison is an interesting one because his career basically started at the same time as Jimmy's career. In that time frame Jimmy had 146 more catches, 1,752 more yards but 34 fewer TDs(that is a lot). TO averaged 14.7 per catch and Jimmy 14.3. Jimmy had 20 more catches over 20 yards and they were 1 apart in catches over 40 yards. Jimmy also picked 106 more first downs. TO is widely considered a great WR and most would call him a HoF'r. He is also obviously a much better fantasy football WR. But in the real NFL are 34 more TDs that much better than 146 more catches, 1,752 more yards and 106 more first downs? Especially when consider that TO has played his whole career in pass happy offenses.

Good post. The comparison to TO is a good one but basically shows that Smith was a good between the 20's possession type wr and (not unlike the other Smith) not a game breaker. TO will surpass Smith's catch's and yards within a season and a half while still adding to his TD total. Regarding your question I would say yes the TD's are more important because they resulted in nearly 250 real NFL points which is how games are won. Catches, yards and 1st downs are all nice but points are what wins games.

 

[Wadsworth]

So then TDs is the measure of a great WR? I'm not disagreeing just wanting to be clear. Because the TO comparison is an interesting one because his career basically started at the same time as Jimmy's career. In that time frame Jimmy had 146 more catches, 1,752 more yards but 34 fewer TDs(that is a lot). TO averaged 14.7 per catch and Jimmy 14.3. Jimmy had 20 more catches over 20 yards and they were 1 apart in catches over 40 yards. Jimmy also picked 106 more first downs.

TO is widely considered a great WR and most would call him a HoF'r. He is also obviously a much better fantasy football WR. But in the real NFL are 34 more TDs that much better than 146 more catches, 1,752 more yards and 106 more first downs? Especially when consider that TO has played his whole career in pass happy offenses.

Jimmy Smith entered the league four years before TO did. In four years, TO will be well ahead of Smith in every category.

Oh please Cal bear, you are better than that. You know he broke his leg and had emergency surgury which lead to him being cut and not playing for much of that time. From 92-94 he played in a total of 7 games and had no catches. Are you really suggest that those years should count in a comparison of skills? What does it say for your argument that you need to add years that Jimmy barely even played to his career for the numbers to work out the way you'd like?

 

[CalBear]

Oh please Cal bear, you are better than that. You know he broke his leg and had emergency surgury which lead to him being cut and not playing for much of that time. From 92-94 he played in a total of 7 games and had no catches. Are you really suggest that those years should count in a comparison of skills? What does it say for your argument that you need to add years that Jimmy barely even played to his career for the numbers to work out the way you'd like?

Jimmy Smith has played in 179 games; TO in 142. Even if you remove those 7 games from 92-94 (which makes no sense, because they're part of his career), TO still gets 30 more games to surpass Smith's numbers (which he will).

 

[SSOG]

What if a Michael Jordan kind of Smith comes into the league and goes to the HOF? Are all future Smith's damned to be left out because of that rule?

I don't know if either of these Smith's should be in the hall, but I have to question your logic a bit. They've played in almost the same number of games and Jimmy has, and for the most part, always has had, better numbers. He was always more feared than Rod and was consistently drafted higher in pretty much every league over the past eleven seasons.

Your point is that Rod has Super Bowl rings and was undrafted while Jimmy has had some drug and suspension issues. I can agree with that, but if the HOF voters put more weight on talent, and less on rings and Rudyism, then Jimmy goes in long before Rod does.

First off, please, I think it was abundantly clear that I was only referring to the Current Crop of Catching Smiths. I also don't know about the "more highly feared than Rod Smith" thing, either. I've read players say a lot of good things about Jimmy... but I've heard them say a lot of good things about Rod, too. And despite Jimmy usually being more coveted in fantasy circles, general consensus (or at least, as far as *I* always heard) was that Rod was the better Smith.

Also worth noting... Jimmy came into the league 3 years before Rod. While he didn't get a lot of playing time, he certainly got a lot of seasoning. In 1996, Rod was a 2nd year undrafted free agent while Jimmy was a 5th year vet on his way to a 1,200 yard season. If you just compare the stats from 1997 on, they look a lot more comparable.

Jimmy: 140 games, 757 receptions for 10755 yards and 57 TDs

Rod: 141 games, 775 receptions for 10488 yards and 62 TDs.

I don't see where this "Jimmy was a bigger threat" thing comes from. I always thought of them as pretty comparable, talent and production wise, with Rod getting a huge edge in the intangibles category that the HoF seems so fond of.