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John Elway (1 Viewer)

Buffaloes

Footballguy
has any (sports) individual meant more to a franchise and possibly a city than JFE?

I know Floyd Little is the franchise and I love him for that, but John Elway.

The 80s, the 90s, 1997, 1998. and then building this Bronco team after the Josh McDaniels thing. From the worst record in franchise history to Von Miller, Tebow Time, Peyton Manning, 5 straight AFCW title.

A Super Bowl embarrassment that led to a completely remade team in 2 years, complete with the best D in the league and a return to Bronco and championship football with Wade and Kubiak. "This one's for Pat!"

This isn't a Bronco forum, but I don't care. John Elway, baby

 
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has any (sports) individual meant more to a franchise and possibly a city than JFE?

I know Floyd Little is the franchise and I love him for that, but John Elway.

The 80s, the 90s, 1997, 1998. and then building this Bronco team after the Josh McDaniels thing. From the worst record in franchise history to Von Miller, Tebow Time, Peyton Manning, 5 straight AFCW title.

A Super Bowl embarrassment that led to a completely remade team in 2 years, complete with the best D in the league and a return to Bronco and championship football with Wade and Kubiak.

This isn't a Bronco forum, but I don't care. John Elway, baby
:thumbup: :thumbup:

 
The Patriots were horrible until Brady showed up, so maybe him.

Miami has done nothing since Marino retired but they at least had success in the 70s.

Russell Wilson has pretty much been the face of the Seahawks during their year of dominance.

 
I'm an old school Seahawks fan so I hate Elway, but I respect him like no other.

I think he is actually underrated as a player and he's done very well as an executive. Very Steve Yzerman-esque.

 
I was just wondering of Elway can make the HoF again.

IMO, its impossible to find a single person that meant more to a team than Elway over 30+ years.

 
Always liked him. Still pissed about that SB loss to the Redskins when I was a kid.

 
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has any (sports) individual meant more to a franchise and possibly a city than JFE?

I know Floyd Little is the franchise and I love him for that, but John Elway.

The 80s, the 90s, 1997, 1998. and then building this Bronco team after the Josh McDaniels thing. From the worst record in franchise history to Von Miller, Tebow Time, Peyton Manning, 5 straight AFCW title.

A Super Bowl embarrassment that led to a completely remade team in 2 years, complete with the best D in the league and a return to Bronco and championship football with Wade and Kubiak. "This one's for Pat!"

This isn't a Bronco forum, but I don't care. John Elway, baby
I don't like Elway at all and I completely agree with this post.

 
The list is pretty short for great players that turned into good to great coaches/GMs in all of sports. Elways is really unique in those terms.

For figures that are synonymous with a franchise the people that come to mind are Red Auerbach, Michael Jordan & Wayne Gretzky (there are probably a few more). Red built the Celtics plus succeeded as coach & GM. MJ & Gretzky are godlike in their respected cities. Gretzky saved the entire sport of hockey. But neither MJ or Gretzky shares Elways success after retiring from playing the sport.

 
Stevie Y in Detroit, he drug my Dad out of depression. Im still waiting for the football version.Elway is special.

 
The list is pretty short for great players that turned into good to great coaches/GMs in all of sports. Elways is really unique in those terms.

For figures that are synonymous with a franchise the people that come to mind are Red Auerbach, Michael Jordan & Wayne Gretzky (there are probably a few more). Red built the Celtics plus succeeded as coach & GM. MJ & Gretzky are godlike in their respected cities. Gretzky saved the entire sport of hockey. But neither MJ or Gretzky shares Elways success after retiring from playing the sport.
Yzerman and Elway easily surpass those guys, those are terrible examples. Not even sure if Jordan's Charlotte teams have ever had a winning record, not sure if Auerbach even played hoops in high school. Grezky also a non-factor in executive management, you went 0-3.

 
Closest I can come up with, and this only meets criteria for franchise-not city, is Ozzie due to HOF playing career and HOF executive career but due to position and lack of SB's as a player I have to say Elway trumps him.

 
MDSkinner said:
Buffaloes said:
has any (sports) individual meant more to a franchise and possibly a city than JFE?

I know Floyd Little is the franchise and I love him for that, but John Elway.

The 80s, the 90s, 1997, 1998. and then building this Bronco team after the Josh McDaniels thing. From the worst record in franchise history to Von Miller, Tebow Time, Peyton Manning, 5 straight AFCW title.

A Super Bowl embarrassment that led to a completely remade team in 2 years, complete with the best D in the league and a return to Bronco and championship football with Wade and Kubiak. "This one's for Pat!"

This isn't a Bronco forum, but I don't care. John Elway, baby
I don't like Elway at all and I completely agree with this post.
As a long time Raiders fan, I hate the Broncos and I hate Elway more. I too completely agree with the original post.

 
When Elway took the front office position in Denver, the Broncos were coming off of a 4-12 season and had just fired their head coach. In the 5 years since, the Broncos have won 5 divisional titles, three #1 seeds, two AFC titles, and one Lombardi.

It's not just Manning either - Elway drafted (or UDFA signed): Von Miller, Julius Thomas, Chris Harris, Bradley Roby, Shane Ray, Sylvester Williams, Derek Wolfe, Malik Jackson, Danny Trevathan, Virgil Green, Ronnie Hillman, CJ Anderson, Matt Paradis, Brock Osweiler, Shaq Barrett, Britton Colquitt, Max Garcia.

He was able to land some big name free agents: Peyton Manning, DeMarcus Ware, Aquib Talib, Wes Welker, Emmanuel Sanders, TJ Ward, Luis Vasquez, Dominique Rogers-Cromartie.

Besides these guys, he signed a number of really great unheralded free-agents, some of whom resurrected their careers for bigger pay-days elsewhere: Terrance Knighton, Brandon Marshall, Darian Stewart, Owen Daniels, Ryan Harris.

Really, looking at the roster, there are only a handful of guys left over from the pre-Elway era: Demaryius Thomas, Brunton, Clady.

It really is amazing how Elway was able to reconstruct the team from the worst season in franchise history to SB champs 5 years later, while winning division titles and playoff games along the way.

 
Elway is a stud...in many ways he was the prototype QB as his physical skills were second to none...as for his front office skills they have been very impressive as it has been a combo of drafting and spending pretty decent money on free agents...the second part is quite often not a recipe for success but he has been excellent at it...

I still think Jerry West is #1 in this category (I am assuming the category we are discussing is playing and managing...because I am sure each city has a candidate in the "beloved" category)...his record is second to none both on the field or court and off...

 
The crazy thing is, when Mr. B appointed Elway as President/GM, I think it was largely a PR move intended to inject some hope and life back into the fan base after the McDaniels fiasco. Denver fans are not ones to jump ship, ever, but the outlook was bleak and fan optimism was at an all time low. I'm sure Mr. B expected Elway would at least do a competent job, but I don't think in his wildest dreams he imagined that Elway would prove THIS successful.

It's important to note, too, that he has been criticized over the years for what were by and large considered some pretty sub-par drafts. In particular, the Wolfe pick was considered terrible and a huge reach. Sly Williams was considered at best a disappointment and at worst a flat out bust coming into this season. The Osweiler pick was ridiculed as something of a luxury dart throw that the team could ill-afford considering the WIN NOW mentality (although for Elway it has never been win now but WIN FROM NOW ON). The Hillman pick looked terrible for a good while and though I'm not a huge Hillman supporter he has at least come up big in spots and stretches and probably exceeded any realistic expectations for a 3rd round RB. Each of those players have played important roles, either as instrumental pieces or solid part time contributors, during this Super Bowl run. Throw in all of the late round/UDFA picks/signings mentioned by Moleculo that have paid huge dividends and I'd say Elway's drafts have been very good to great. Did he miss on some picks badly? Sure. Montee Ball is probably the most notable. But no one bats a thousand. What had been long criticized as some pretty sub-par drafts classes and some very questionable picks all of a sudden look pretty damn good.

Add to that the incredible work he has done in FA and, well, Elway is THE ####### MAN!

I'll add that I don't think people outside of Denver truly realize how important Elway is and has been to not only football but sports in this town over the last 30+ years. Denver's identity not just as a sports city but as a city in general is so strongly tied to John Elway in so many ways and that will NEVER change.

 
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The crazy thing is, when Mr. B appointed Elway as President/GM, I think it was largely a PR move intended to inject some hope and life back into the fan base after the McDaniels fiasco. Denver fans are not ones to jump ship, ever, but the outlook was bleak and fan optimism was at an all time low. I'm sure Mr. B expected Elway would at least do a competent job, but I don't think in his wildest dreams he imagined that Elway would prove THIS successful.
I don't know of anyone who thought it was any more than that.

 
The crazy thing is, when Mr. B appointed Elway as President/GM, I think it was largely a PR move intended to inject some hope and life back into the fan base after the McDaniels fiasco. Denver fans are not ones to jump ship, ever, but the outlook was bleak and fan optimism was at an all time low. I'm sure Mr. B expected Elway would at least do a competent job, but I don't think in his wildest dreams he imagined that Elway would prove THIS successful.
I don't know of anyone who thought it was any more than that.
Right, which is why what he's done is so impressive.

 
The crazy thing is, when Mr. B appointed Elway as President/GM, I think it was largely a PR move intended to inject some hope and life back into the fan base after the McDaniels fiasco. Denver fans are not ones to jump ship, ever, but the outlook was bleak and fan optimism was at an all time low. I'm sure Mr. B expected Elway would at least do a competent job, but I don't think in his wildest dreams he imagined that Elway would prove THIS successful.
I don't know of anyone who thought it was any more than that.
I don't know how involved he was in the decision making, but the arena team he owned was pretty good year round and won a championship. He always seemed like a guy who would do everything he could to win, whether that was on the field or in business. So count me as the one guy who thought he would be successful as GM. Hes a guy whose gonna do what it takes to win, not play it safe to keep his job year round. You can see that in the way he drafts, the personnel he hires/fires, and the fas he brings in and it's why I loved him getting that job. The guy gets #### done. Without Elway who does Peyton play for?

 
Its interesting that the 2015 draft was a blank for the Broncos, yet they won the Super Bowl anyway.

Round 1: LB Shane Ray (backup)

Round 2: OT Ty Sambrailo (played weeks 1-3) then tore a labrum and went to IR for the season)

Round 3: TE Jeff Heuerman (tore his ACL in rookie minicamp 8 days after the 2015 draft, lost for the entire season)

Round 4: OT Max Garcia (lost the starting job in camp. Broncos signed Evan Mathis because Garcia wasn't good enough. Regained job because of injuries to the line. Started 5 games.)

Round 5: CB Lorenzo Doss (active, no stats)

Round 6: NT Darius Kilgo (developmental player, backup nose tackle)

Round 7 QB Trevor Siemian (backup)

Round 7: CB Taurean Nixon (no stats)

Round 7: S Josh Furman (cut)

You can blow a whole draft and still win the super bowl. Grading GMs is not about looking at their busts, because they all have busts. You grade them on their hits.

 
Our local Packers beat writer in Milwaukee, Bob McGinn, did a piece on Elway last week noting that, of the 14 HoF QB's, Elway and Bart Starr are the only two who made a real effort to continue in the game as GM or in coaching. Starr was GM and coach of the Packers for years, and is generally considered a failure. Dan Marino was named "Senior Vice President of Football Operations" in Miami but only lasted a month upon realizing how hard the work is. After beating the crap out of their bodies for years, these guys generally have an easy path to follow just trading off their names, and who could blame them? Elway has never been a name-only guy though, even (as McGinn pointed out) travelling to scout the Senior Bowl and Collegiate Bowl in the weeks before the Superbowl. He also developed hugely successful restaurant and car dealership businesses which alone made him a multi millionaire. He's really had an amazing career as an athlete, businessman and GM - a truly exceptional success story.

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/denvers-john-elway-goes-full-throttle-as-gm-b99663385z1-367613501.html

 
Its interesting that the 2015 draft was a blank for the Broncos, yet they won the Super Bowl anyway.

Round 1: LB Shane Ray (backup)

Round 2: OT Ty Sambrailo (played weeks 1-3) then tore a labrum and went to IR for the season)

Round 3: TE Jeff Heuerman (tore his ACL in rookie minicamp 8 days after the 2015 draft, lost for the entire season)

Round 4: OT Max Garcia (lost the starting job in camp. Broncos signed Evan Mathis because Garcia wasn't good enough. Regained job because of injuries to the line. Started 5 games.)

Round 5: CB Lorenzo Doss (active, no stats)

Round 6: NT Darius Kilgo (developmental player, backup nose tackle)

Round 7 QB Trevor Siemian (backup)

Round 7: CB Taurean Nixon (no stats)

Round 7: S Josh Furman (cut)

You can blow a whole draft and still win the super bowl. Grading GMs is not about looking at their busts, because they all have busts. You grade them on their hits.
You don't win the Superbowl on the basis of that years draft...you win the Superbowl on drafts 3,4,5 years ago.

The takeaway should be the 2014 Broncos were good enough to win the Superbowl if they hadn't Foxed it all up.

 
Elway has been the face of Denver sports for 30 years.

Then again he has been a part of only 3 championships.

Just in the NFL During that time Montana, Brady and the Maras have all brought more titles to their city. Montana doesn't have anything to do with the 49ers anymore as far as I know, Brady has only been the face of the franchise for 15 years (and likely won't be part of the organization post playing days) and the Maras never played.

In the NBA Jordan, Duncan, Kobe, Magic have all been around for at least 4 during that time for their franchises.

Baseball you have guys like Jeter, Ortiz (only 3) whoever you'd say is the guy for SF (Bumgarner?).

So yes, he has been the face of his Denver sports for longer than anyone has been the face of their team. But a whole lot of guys have had more successful runs during that time or at least as successful. So I guess it depends what you're looking at.

 
I was just wondering of Elway can make the HoF again.

IMO, its impossible to find a single person that meant more to a team than Elway over 30+ years.
Al Davis.
George Halas?
Yup, another good one. Also Paul Brown and Curly Lambeau are easy picks. Chuck Noll, Don Shula, and Tom Landry are harder ones. They've got longer tenures with a single franchise than Elway's 21 years, but none can come close to his 8 Super Bowl appearances, and only Noll can top his 2 Super Bowl wins. But Noll also has the worst lifetime winning percentage of the trio.

Lombardi and Walsh would be slam dunks, but Walsh only spent 10 years with the Niners and Lombardi only spent 9 with the Packers. I'd be inclined to give Walsh credit for legacy success, (Seifert won two more titles and actually had a higher lifetime winning percentage, and his offense created a long-term advantage that lasted for decades), but not Lombardi, (the Packers only made the playoffs twice in the 25 years after he left, with fifteen losing seasons during that span).

Owners are tough, outside of Davis. Jerry Jones is as hands-on, but it's hard to say how much is him and how much was Jimmy Johnson. Plus the Cowboys were America's Team long before he bought them. Others made league-wide contributions, but few contributed much to their own team's record.

Belichick might deserve to be on this list, but you'll get some wondering whether he's even the most important person related to the Pats franchise of the last 20 years, (Tom Brady). Bill Polian's contributions have almost certainly been more remarkable, but those were split between three different franchises.

So I'd maybe put Elway around sixth, behind Al Davis, Paul Brown, George Halas, Curly Lambeau, and Bill Walsh. I could see arguments for as high as 4th and as low as 10th.

 
Our local Packers beat writer in Milwaukee, Bob McGinn, did a piece on Elway last week noting that, of the 14 HoF QB's, Elway and Bart Starr are the only two who made a real effort to continue in the game as GM or in coaching. Starr was GM and coach of the Packers for years, and is generally considered a failure. Dan Marino was named "Senior Vice President of Football Operations" in Miami but only lasted a month upon realizing how hard the work is. After beating the crap out of their bodies for years, these guys generally have an easy path to follow just trading off their names, and who could blame them? Elway has never been a name-only guy though, even (as McGinn pointed out) travelling to scout the Senior Bowl and Collegiate Bowl in the weeks before the Superbowl. He also developed hugely successful restaurant and car dealership businesses which alone made him a multi millionaire. He's really had an amazing career as an athlete, businessman and GM - a truly exceptional success story.

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/denvers-john-elway-goes-full-throttle-as-gm-b99663385z1-367613501.html
Hall of Fame quarterback Norm Van Brocklin was a head coach for 13 years. Otto Graham, Sammy Baugh, and Bob Waterfield are three other Hall of Fame quarterbacks who lasted three seasons each as an NFL head coach.

Hall of Famers at other positions have gone on to the coaching or front office ranks, too. Forrest Gregg coached for 11 years and once led the Cincinnati Bengals to the Super Bowl. Ditka obviously won a title coaching the Bears. Art Shell and Raymond Berry gave 7 and 6 years, respectively. Dutch Clark coached for 6 years, but he was a player-coach for a couple of them, (the transition was more common and more seamless back in the '30s and '40s). Mike McCormack, Joe Schmidt, Mike Singletary, Jack Christiansen, and **** LeBeau were all Hall of Fame players who spent some time as a head coach in the NFL. Tom Fears, Joe Stydahar, Mike Munchak. A lot of guys never make it to head coach, but still hang around football and take part in the major grind. Hall of Fame receiver Charley Taylor was Washington's WR coach for fourteen years under Joe Gibbs, for instance.

I don't have a handy database of GMs, so I can't really say how common the Hall of Fame to Front Office transition is, historically. I think a lot of former players become scouts, (Bobby Mitchell did, I recall), but it seems rarer for them to rise through the ranks. Obviously Ozzie Newsome comes to mind, but beyond that I've got nothing.

Elway's *SUCCESS* at every level is extremely rare, but it's not at all uncommon for players-- even great, famous players who could trade on name value alone-- to stay around football and work long hours after they retire.

 
Its interesting that the 2015 draft was a blank for the Broncos, yet they won the Super Bowl anyway.

Round 1: LB Shane Ray (backup)

Round 2: OT Ty Sambrailo (played weeks 1-3) then tore a labrum and went to IR for the season)

Round 3: TE Jeff Heuerman (tore his ACL in rookie minicamp 8 days after the 2015 draft, lost for the entire season)

Round 4: OT Max Garcia (lost the starting job in camp. Broncos signed Evan Mathis because Garcia wasn't good enough. Regained job because of injuries to the line. Started 5 games.)

Round 5: CB Lorenzo Doss (active, no stats)

Round 6: NT Darius Kilgo (developmental player, backup nose tackle)

Round 7 QB Trevor Siemian (backup)

Round 7: CB Taurean Nixon (no stats)

Round 7: S Josh Furman (cut)

You can blow a whole draft and still win the super bowl. Grading GMs is not about looking at their busts, because they all have busts. You grade them on their hits.
blow the draft?

Shane Ray played every game he was healthy for and stepped in for Ware when Ware was injured this year. he laid a huge hit on Newton in the Super Bowl on the long completion to Funchess.

Max Garcia also played nearly every game this year up until maybe the Super Bowl. Denver rotated Mathis/Garcia/Vasquez and Garcia was a fixture on the ol.

Sambraillo was the starting RT til Clady was injured and then was the starting LT until he was injured. that's not blowing the draft.

 
Its interesting that the 2015 draft was a blank for the Broncos, yet they won the Super Bowl anyway.

Round 1: LB Shane Ray (backup)

Round 2: OT Ty Sambrailo (played weeks 1-3) then tore a labrum and went to IR for the season)

Round 3: TE Jeff Heuerman (tore his ACL in rookie minicamp 8 days after the 2015 draft, lost for the entire season)

Round 4: OT Max Garcia (lost the starting job in camp. Broncos signed Evan Mathis because Garcia wasn't good enough. Regained job because of injuries to the line. Started 5 games.)

Round 5: CB Lorenzo Doss (active, no stats)

Round 6: NT Darius Kilgo (developmental player, backup nose tackle)

Round 7 QB Trevor Siemian (backup)

Round 7: CB Taurean Nixon (no stats)

Round 7: S Josh Furman (cut)

You can blow a whole draft and still win the super bowl. Grading GMs is not about looking at their busts, because they all have busts. You grade them on their hits.
You don't win the Superbowl on the basis of that years draft...you win the Superbowl on drafts 3,4,5 years ago.

The takeaway should be the 2014 Broncos were good enough to win the Superbowl if they hadn't Foxed it all up.
I looked it up and the last time there was an impact player drafted by the eventual super bowl champ that year was Joe Addai in 2006!

 
Its interesting that the 2015 draft was a blank for the Broncos, yet they won the Super Bowl anyway.

Round 1: LB Shane Ray (backup)

Round 2: OT Ty Sambrailo (played weeks 1-3) then tore a labrum and went to IR for the season)

Round 3: TE Jeff Heuerman (tore his ACL in rookie minicamp 8 days after the 2015 draft, lost for the entire season)

Round 4: OT Max Garcia (lost the starting job in camp. Broncos signed Evan Mathis because Garcia wasn't good enough. Regained job because of injuries to the line. Started 5 games.)

Round 5: CB Lorenzo Doss (active, no stats)

Round 6: NT Darius Kilgo (developmental player, backup nose tackle)

Round 7 QB Trevor Siemian (backup)

Round 7: CB Taurean Nixon (no stats)

Round 7: S Josh Furman (cut)

You can blow a whole draft and still win the super bowl. Grading GMs is not about looking at their busts, because they all have busts. You grade them on their hits.
blow the draft?

Shane Ray played every game he was healthy for and stepped in for Ware when Ware was injured this year. he laid a huge hit on Newton in the Super Bowl on the long completion to Funchess.

Max Garcia also played nearly every game this year up until maybe the Super Bowl. Denver rotated Mathis/Garcia/Vasquez and Garcia was a fixture on the ol.

Sambraillo was the starting RT til Clady was injured and then was the starting LT until he was injured. that's not blowing the draft.
I know he said they blew the draft but I don't really think that's what he was getting at. I think he was more suggesting that they did not get a ton of production out of the draft. As you said, Garcia and Ray came up big in spots, but he's right that no one from that draft class played a prominent role for the Broncos this season, at least from a pure numbers/production/playing time point of view.

That being said, I don't think the roles that Garcia and Ray played should be minimalized simply because they weren't starters. Garcia allowed Mathis and Vasquez to remain fresh by rotating series with both of them, something which can't be measured but probably had an impact in several games given that the running game came up big late in key spots--this may not have been possible if the OG's weren't fresh. Shane Ray (along with Shaq Barrett) were integral in stepping in for Von and Ware for 10-15 snaps per game and still applying comparable pressure which played a huge role in keeping them fresh thus allowing them to make key plays when it mattered most.

The amazing part of this Denver team was its depth, and that is where they are going to be most hurt during this free agency period. They may be able to keep the big name free agents (Von, Malik, Brock, maybe Trevathan) but they are probably going to lose several solid depth players. Then again, when you consider that nearly $30 million of this years cap went toward Clady who didn't play a snap and Peyton who.... yeah.... the future of this team and its ability to retain its core players looks pretty bright. Further, much as I would hate to see it happen, I could see Ware retiring which would free up another $10 or so million. Supposedly he hinted at this during his pre-Super Bowl speech Saturday night.

 
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has any (sports) individual meant more to a franchise and possibly a city than JFE?

I know Floyd Little is the franchise and I love him for that, but John Elway.

The 80s, the 90s, 1997, 1998. and then building this Bronco team after the Josh McDaniels thing. From the worst record in franchise history to Von Miller, Tebow Time, Peyton Manning, 5 straight AFCW title.

A Super Bowl embarrassment that led to a completely remade team in 2 years, complete with the best D in the league and a return to Bronco and championship football with Wade and Kubiak. "This one's for Pat!"

This isn't a Bronco forum, but I don't care. John Elway, baby
Yes. Mario Lemeiux has meant more to the Penguins franchise than Elway has to the Broncos. He single-handedly saved the franchise from folding.

 
Its interesting that the 2015 draft was a blank for the Broncos, yet they won the Super Bowl anyway.

Round 1: LB Shane Ray (backup)

Round 2: OT Ty Sambrailo (played weeks 1-3) then tore a labrum and went to IR for the season)

Round 3: TE Jeff Heuerman (tore his ACL in rookie minicamp 8 days after the 2015 draft, lost for the entire season)

Round 4: OT Max Garcia (lost the starting job in camp. Broncos signed Evan Mathis because Garcia wasn't good enough. Regained job because of injuries to the line. Started 5 games.)

Round 5: CB Lorenzo Doss (active, no stats)

Round 6: NT Darius Kilgo (developmental player, backup nose tackle)

Round 7 QB Trevor Siemian (backup)

Round 7: CB Taurean Nixon (no stats)

Round 7: S Josh Furman (cut)

You can blow a whole draft and still win the super bowl. Grading GMs is not about looking at their busts, because they all have busts. You grade them on their hits.
blow the draft?

Shane Ray played every game he was healthy for and stepped in for Ware when Ware was injured this year. he laid a huge hit on Newton in the Super Bowl on the long completion to Funchess.

Max Garcia also played nearly every game this year up until maybe the Super Bowl. Denver rotated Mathis/Garcia/Vasquez and Garcia was a fixture on the ol.

Sambraillo was the starting RT til Clady was injured and then was the starting LT until he was injured. that's not blowing the draft.
I know he said they blew the draft but I don't really think that's what he was getting at. I think he was more suggesting that they did not get a ton of production out of the draft. As you said, Garcia and Ray came up big in spots, but he's right that no one from that draft class played a prominent role for the Broncos this season, at least from a pure numbers/production/playing time point of view.

That being said, I don't think the roles that Garcia and Ray played should be minimalized simply because they weren't starters. Garcia allowed Mathis and Vasquez to remain fresh by rotating series with both of them, something which can't be measured but probably had an impact in several games given that the running game came up big late in key spots--this may not have been possible if the OG's weren't fresh. Shane Ray (along with Shaq Barrett) were integral in stepping in for Von and Ware for 10-15 snaps per game and still applying comparable pressure which played a huge role in keeping them fresh thus allowing them to make key plays when it mattered most.

The amazing part of this Denver team was its depth, and that is where they are going to be most hurt during this free agency period. They may be able to keep the big name free agents (Von, Malik, Brock, maybe Trevathan) but they are probably going to lose several solid depth players. Then again, when you consider that nearly $30 million of this years cap went toward Clady who didn't play a snap and Peyton who.... yeah.... the future of this team and its ability to retain its core players looks pretty bright. Further, much as I would hate to see it happen, I could see Ware retiring which would free up another $10 or so million. Supposedly he hinted at this during his pre-Super Bowl speech Saturday night.
I think Ware restructures and comes back for one more try at it. He is not going to mess around with testing the market at his age. Shane Ray was an absolute steal for Denver because NE would have taken him next if they could have. And a name I think you are going to hear about is Siemian. From the small sample size we saw in pre-season, this kid looks like he could be someone that could hang around behind Brock. He just had this look of confidence when he was on the field.

 
Courtjester said:
thatguy said:
Its interesting that the 2015 draft was a blank for the Broncos, yet they won the Super Bowl anyway.

Round 1: LB Shane Ray (backup)

Round 2: OT Ty Sambrailo (played weeks 1-3) then tore a labrum and went to IR for the season)

Round 3: TE Jeff Heuerman (tore his ACL in rookie minicamp 8 days after the 2015 draft, lost for the entire season)

Round 4: OT Max Garcia (lost the starting job in camp. Broncos signed Evan Mathis because Garcia wasn't good enough. Regained job because of injuries to the line. Started 5 games.)

Round 5: CB Lorenzo Doss (active, no stats)

Round 6: NT Darius Kilgo (developmental player, backup nose tackle)

Round 7 QB Trevor Siemian (backup)

Round 7: CB Taurean Nixon (no stats)

Round 7: S Josh Furman (cut)

You can blow a whole draft and still win the super bowl. Grading GMs is not about looking at their busts, because they all have busts. You grade them on their hits.
blow the draft?

Shane Ray played every game he was healthy for and stepped in for Ware when Ware was injured this year. he laid a huge hit on Newton in the Super Bowl on the long completion to Funchess.

Max Garcia also played nearly every game this year up until maybe the Super Bowl. Denver rotated Mathis/Garcia/Vasquez and Garcia was a fixture on the ol.

Sambraillo was the starting RT til Clady was injured and then was the starting LT until he was injured. that's not blowing the draft.
I know he said they blew the draft but I don't really think that's what he was getting at. I think he was more suggesting that they did not get a ton of production out of the draft. As you said, Garcia and Ray came up big in spots, but he's right that no one from that draft class played a prominent role for the Broncos this season, at least from a pure numbers/production/playing time point of view.

That being said, I don't think the roles that Garcia and Ray played should be minimalized simply because they weren't starters. Garcia allowed Mathis and Vasquez to remain fresh by rotating series with both of them, something which can't be measured but probably had an impact in several games given that the running game came up big late in key spots--this may not have been possible if the OG's weren't fresh. Shane Ray (along with Shaq Barrett) were integral in stepping in for Von and Ware for 10-15 snaps per game and still applying comparable pressure which played a huge role in keeping them fresh thus allowing them to make key plays when it mattered most.

The amazing part of this Denver team was its depth, and that is where they are going to be most hurt during this free agency period. They may be able to keep the big name free agents (Von, Malik, Brock, maybe Trevathan) but they are probably going to lose several solid depth players. Then again, when you consider that nearly $30 million of this years cap went toward Clady who didn't play a snap and Peyton who.... yeah.... the future of this team and its ability to retain its core players looks pretty bright. Further, much as I would hate to see it happen, I could see Ware retiring which would free up another $10 or so million. Supposedly he hinted at this during his pre-Super Bowl speech Saturday night.
I think Ware restructures and comes back for one more try at it. He is not going to mess around with testing the market at his age. Shane Ray was an absolute steal for Denver because NE would have taken him next if they could have. And a name I think you are going to hear about is Siemian. From the small sample size we saw in pre-season, this kid looks like he could be someone that could hang around behind Brock. He just had this look of confidence when he was on the field.
Agreed. I'm also high on Jeff Heuerman's prospects going forward. Sambraillo should at worst develop into a solid RT, at best he could be a very good LT in Kubiak's scheme. Garcia will be starting at OG next season. Kilgo should at worst continue to provide decent DL depth. Not sure about the DBs, but don't get me wrong, I love the 2015 draft class long term. The thing about Siemian is that this is the first time in a long time Denver carried a third QB on their 53 man roster, which shows that they are in fact very high on him considering he was a 7th round dart throw. So we're on the same page :hifive: and I too hope Ware restructures.

 
How about Mike Matheny with the Cardinals. Wins a bunch of gold gloves, takes them to the playoffs a few times and loses in the WS to the Red Sox in 2004. Comes back as the skipper and wins a WS and takes them to another WS and has been in the playoffs every year. Not to the level of John Elway, but on the same track in maybe a second tier level...

 
Elway has been the face of Denver sports for 30 years.

Then again he has been a part of only 3 championships.

Just in the NFL During that time Montana, Brady and the Maras have all brought more titles to their city. Montana doesn't have anything to do with the 49ers anymore as far as I know, Brady has only been the face of the franchise for 15 years (and likely won't be part of the organization post playing days) and the Maras never played.

In the NBA Jordan, Duncan, Kobe, Magic have all been around for at least 4 during that time for their franchises.

Baseball you have guys like Jeter, Ortiz (only 3) whoever you'd say is the guy for SF (Bumgarner?).

So yes, he has been the face of his Denver sports for longer than anyone has been the face of their team. But a whole lot of guys have had more successful runs during that time or at least as successful. So I guess it depends what you're looking at.
Didn't he drag three teams to the super bowl as well, even if they didn't win? Not sure that getting the additional ring or two necessarily trumps the long-lasting impact of elway. I don't really care one way or the other, just pointing it out.

 
TheFanatic said:
How about Mike Matheny with the Cardinals. Wins a bunch of gold gloves, takes them to the playoffs a few times and loses in the WS to the Red Sox in 2004. Comes back as the skipper and wins a WS and takes them to another WS and has been in the playoffs every year. Not to the level of John Elway, but on the same track in maybe a second tier level...
He wasn't the skipper when they won their last WS, he came on the year after. Best World Series ever as a cards fan, I loved the Matheny signing the year later tho, he's definitely blown away my expectations.

 
I know Elway is taking a lot of flack for how this off-season is unfolding.  Before everyone sharpens their pitchforks too much, let's remember that the Bronco 2012 draft was widely panned. It's worth remembering, I think.  6 of 7 draftees were on the roster 4 years later, with 3 starters.  4 players were rewarded with huge second contracts, including some of the most note-worthy signings this off-season.

2014 saw 2 SB starters, and the nickel CB (who could probably start for most teams).

2015 had only Sambralio as a starter, but Ray and Garcia were key contributors...it's unfortunate that Heuerman was hurt, he could have been a key guy last year as well.

 
Kind of early to bury DEN and doubt Elway.  They won the SB with some of the worst QB play in the NFL.  Any QB they throw in there will be better than 2015 Manning. 

 

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