Jonas Gray (RB - New England) (1 Viewer)

[BobbyLayne]

is he even dressed? its says he is active he could possible come back for the second half?

Yes, he is.

Next to BB the entire game, helmet on. Noticed he finally unbuckled the lower snaps in the 4th Q.

 

[PatsWillWin]

Averaging 25 PPG over his past 2 games.

True fact. Don't see it lasting though, I think he settles in around 16.67 ppg average after next week.

 

[ponchsox]

Fantasy aside Belichick is a sadistic piece of ####, how can you treat a player like this is beyond me.

You must be part of the entitlement/zero accountability generation.

 

[shadyridr]

Averaging 25 PPG over his past 2 games.

thats high end RB1 status right there

 

[General Tso]

So is he just another guy now? Roster spots are too valuable.

I'm holding, but his value has fallen quite a bit with the Blount signing. I still feel very confident that NE running backs will score multiple TD's per week coming up. But right now I see Blount getting at least half of the TD's that Gray alone was going to get prior to the Blount signing.

 

[General Tso]

Fantasy aside Belichick is a sadistic piece of ####, how can you treat a player like this is beyond me.

You must be part of the entitlement/zero accountability generation.

Just curious - how was Blount held accountable?

 

[General Tso]

Averaging 25 PPG over his past 2 games.

thats high end RB1 status right there

Actually, it is dufus.

 

[PatsWillWin]

Fantasy aside Belichick is a sadistic piece of ####, how can you treat a player like this is beyond me.

You must be part of the entitlement/zero accountability generation.

Just curious - how was Blount held accountable?

He was cut.

 

[IHEARTFF]

lol some mad folks up in here

 

[General Tso]

Fantasy aside Belichick is a sadistic piece of ####, how can you treat a player like this is beyond me.

You must be part of the entitlement/zero accountability generation.

Just curious - how was Blount held accountable?

He was cut.

And a week later he has a bigger role on a better team and plays the whole game. Not sure I'd call that being held accountable.

 

[Ladsud]

Thanks Bill, last few posts have been good for a few laughs.

 

[theplayer11]

Fantasy aside Belichick is a sadistic piece of ####, how can you treat a player like this is beyond me.

You must be part of the entitlement/zero accountability generation.

Just curious - how was Blount held accountable?

He was cut.

And a week later he has a bigger role on a better team and plays the whole game. Not sure I'd call that being held accountable.

He was held accountable by the team he was currently on..he was cut. If he screws up in NE, he will be held accountable again.

 

[PatsWillWin]

Fantasy aside Belichick is a sadistic piece of ####, how can you treat a player like this is beyond me.

You must be part of the entitlement/zero accountability generation.

Just curious - how was Blount held accountable?

He was cut.

And a week later he has a bigger role on a better team and plays the whole game. Not sure I'd call that being held accountable.

He was held accountable to the Steelers for something he did while on the Steelers.

 

[mnmplayer]

He had a nice career.

elite ppg avg.

 

[General Tso]

Thanks Bill, last few posts have been good for a few laughs.

Bill would have Charles Manson start next week if he was talented enough. Or even shadyridr.

 

[General Tso]

Fantasy aside Belichick is a sadistic piece of ####, how can you treat a player like this is beyond me.

You must be part of the entitlement/zero accountability generation.

Just curious - how was Blount held accountable?

He was cut.

And a week later he has a bigger role on a better team and plays the whole game. Not sure I'd call that being held accountable.

He was held accountable to the Steelers for something he did while on the Steelers.

And Aaron Hernandez was held accountable by the Gators for what he did while on the Gators.

 

[theplayer11]

lol at Gray owners who are taking it out on Bellichick..

 

[ponchsox]

Fantasy aside Belichick is a sadistic piece of ####, how can you treat a player like this is beyond me.

You must be part of the entitlement/zero accountability generation.

Just curious - how was Blount held accountable?

He was cut.

And a week later he has a bigger role on a better team and plays the whole game. Not sure I'd call that being held accountable.

It didn't happen in New England, not their problem. He would have been disciplined if he pulled that with Belichick.

 

[General Tso]

Fantasy aside Belichick is a sadistic piece of ####, how can you treat a player like this is beyond me.

You must be part of the entitlement/zero accountability generation.

Just curious - how was Blount held accountable?

He was cut.

And a week later he has a bigger role on a better team and plays the whole game. Not sure I'd call that being held accountable.

It didn't happen in New England, not their problem.

The Patriot Way.

 

[Green and Gold]

How often can you sign someone mid-season that already knows your offense, has been highly productive in said offense, and is filling a positiom of need after an injury? Yes, he has had discipline problems in other organizations, but never in new england.

 

[PatsWillWin]

Fantasy aside Belichick is a sadistic piece of ####, how can you treat a player like this is beyond me.

You must be part of the entitlement/zero accountability generation.

Just curious - how was Blount held accountable?

He was cut.

And a week later he has a bigger role on a better team and plays the whole game. Not sure I'd call that being held accountable.

It didn't happen in New England, not their problem.

The Patriot Way.

Pick up veteran "clubhouse problem" guys for dirt cheap and get valuable production out of them? Yes, that is in fact the Patriot Way.

 

[RenegadeGM]

I may be in the minority, but I think what happened today had nothing to do with Gray oversleeping. I think it was all about the fact they trust Blount more than they trust Gray after what Blount did down the stretch last year.

Now, if Belichick can use the situation at the same time to send a message about accountability, I don't think he'll shy away from it. But I think Blount would have had this role no matter what happened with Gray this week. It's easy to forget how productive Blount was down the stretch for them last year.

 

[Faust]

Rotoworld:

Jonas Gray didn't play a single snap in the Patriots' Week 12 win over Detroit.

Shane Vereen played 62 downs, LeGarrette Blount played 17, and Brandon Bolden played two. Last week's four-TD superstar was nowhere to be found after reporting to the Patriots' facility late on Friday and missing practice. Gray could be doghoused for good. He is a replacement-level power back.

Nov 23 - 4:27 PM

 

[General Tso]

I'm starting to think he didn't oversleep...

 

[SameSongNDance]

I'm starting to think he didn't oversleep...

Yeah, there's more to this story than meets the eye. Is it possible that Jonas Gray is a terrorist?

 

[CR69]

I'm starting to think he didn't oversleep...

Yeah, there's more to this story than meets the eye. Is it possible that Jonas Gray is a terrorist?

Maybe he slept with Bill's wife?

 

[ffjunk]

I'm thinking it may have been more to do with his after the fact tweet.

 

[metoo]

Who didn't see this coming?

 

[General Tso]

I'm starting to think he didn't oversleep...

Yeah, there's more to this story than meets the eye. Is it possible that Jonas Gray is a terrorist?

I'm thinking that Gray was (rightfully) pissed at the Blount signing and was late to practice as some sort of "protest" that grossly backfired on him. Or at least that's the way it was viewed by Belichik. The punishment here just doesn't seem to fit the crime, especially on the heels of such a great performance on Sunday night. Having the guy dress for the game, stand on the bench with his helmet on the whole game, and not give him one single snap seems a little over the top for a tardy practice.

 

[shadyridr]

Who didn't see this coming?

i can think of one person

 

[CR69]

These are some crazy conspiracies. Have you guys read anything gray has said in interviews? He genuinely seems like a good kid, is a hard worker and knows his place. I guarantee he wasn't taking about the coaches in his Tweet and there's no way him being late was some passive aggressive response to the Blount signing.

 

[General Tso]

Who didn't see this coming?

i can think of one person

How did Gronk do for you today shady? Oh, I forgot, you traded him!! LOL.

 

[joey]

It's simple: avoid Patriots running game. It's a crap shoot.

 

[Rimez]

I'm starting to think he didn't oversleep...

Yeah, there's more to this story than meets the eye. Is it possible that Jonas Gray is a terrorist?

I'm thinking that Gray was (rightfully) pissed at the Blount signing and was late to practice as some sort of "protest" that grossly backfired on him. Or at least that's the way it was viewed by Belichik. The punishment here just doesn't seem to fit the crime, especially on the heels of such a great performance on Sunday night. Having the guy dress for the game, stand on the bench with his helmet on the whole game, and not give him one single snap seems a little over the top for a tardy practice.

NE schemes specifically for their opponent more than any other team, and friday is the most important practice for the gameplan and so missing friday will cut your snaps by a lot, even if he wasnt late there is no guarantee the touches wouldnt have played out any differently today. everyone besides brady is just another cog in the machine and can be inactive or replaced at any time, and in their eyes "the pats gameplan" rushed for 200 yards and 4 TDs against indy not gray. blount is bigger with better long speed, so it shouldnt come as a surprise if he ends up being the starting big back from here out. but hey its BB, white could get the start next week.

 

[General Tso]

These are some crazy conspiracies. Have you guys read anything gray has said in interviews? He genuinely seems like a good kid, is a hard worker and knows his place. I guarantee he wasn't taking about the coaches in his Tweet and there's no way him being late was some passive aggressive response to the Blount signing.

What was the penalty for Revis after the missed practice? If I remember correctly he played the following game against Chicago. Funny how consistency and fairness take a back seat when it comes to winning.

 

[Rimez]

These are some crazy conspiracies. Have you guys read anything gray has said in interviews? He genuinely seems like a good kid, is a hard worker and knows his place. I guarantee he wasn't taking about the coaches in his Tweet and there's no way him being late was some passive aggressive response to the Blount signing.

What was the penalty for Revis after the missed practice? If I remember correctly he played the following game against Chicago. Funny how consistency and fairness take a back seat when it comes to winning.

who said gray was penalized on gameday? he could have just straight up lost his job to blount even if he was on time.

 

[Ladsud]

These are some crazy conspiracies. Have you guys read anything gray has said in interviews? He genuinely seems like a good kid, is a hard worker and knows his place. I guarantee he wasn't taking about the coaches in his Tweet and there's no way him being late was some passive aggressive response to the Blount signing.

What was the penalty for Revis after the missed practice? If I remember correctly he played the following game against Chicago. Funny how consistency and fairness take a back seat when it comes to winning.

You got Belichicked. You should step away from the PC, have a beer and know your not the first.

 

[ponchsox]

These are some crazy conspiracies. Have you guys read anything gray has said in interviews? He genuinely seems like a good kid, is a hard worker and knows his place. I guarantee he wasn't taking about the coaches in his Tweet and there's no way him being late was some passive aggressive response to the Blount signing.

What was the penalty for Revis after the missed practice? If I remember correctly he played the following game against Chicago. Funny how consistency and fairness take a back seat when it comes to winning.

Belichick isn't stupid. He's not sitting his best players. His team, his rules.

 

[General Tso]

These are some crazy conspiracies. Have you guys read anything gray has said in interviews? He genuinely seems like a good kid, is a hard worker and knows his place. I guarantee he wasn't taking about the coaches in his Tweet and there's no way him being late was some passive aggressive response to the Blount signing.

What was the penalty for Revis after the missed practice? If I remember correctly he played the following game against Chicago. Funny how consistency and fairness take a back seat when it comes to winning.

You got Belichicked. You should step away from the PC, have a beer and know your not the first.

Dude, are you as dumb as that picture of yours? I didn't get Belichiked at all. Once Blount got signed I knew it was pretty much over for Gray and didn't play him this week. I rolled the dice on a high upside player a few weeks ago, got lucky, and then got very unlucky. At this stage of the game I'm just wondering why Bill made him active only to have him sit on the sidelines the entire game with his helmet on and not get a single snap. Seems like he was acting out of anger and doing something above and beyond the normal punishment for being tardy to a practice. Seems like a worthwhile conversation to have. Trying to understand what motivated Billy Boy to do what he did today. People like to think he always acts fairly, or always acts in the best interests of the team, but sometimes I wonder if he sometimes does things purely out of ego, especially when he feels like his authorit may have been challenged.

 

[Ladsud]

These are some crazy conspiracies. Have you guys read anything gray has said in interviews? He genuinely seems like a good kid, is a hard worker and knows his place. I guarantee he wasn't taking about the coaches in his Tweet and there's no way him being late was some passive aggressive response to the Blount signing.

What was the penalty for Revis after the missed practice? If I remember correctly he played the following game against Chicago. Funny how consistency and fairness take a back seat when it comes to winning.

You got Belichicked. You should step away from the PC, have a beer and know your not the first.

Dude, are you as dumb as that picture of yours? I didn't get Belichiked at all. Once Blount got signed I knew it was pretty much over for Gray and didn't play him this week. I rolled the dice on a high upside player a few weeks ago, got lucky, and then got very unlucky. At this stage of the game I'm just wondering why Bill made him active only to have him sit on the sidelines the entire game with his helmet on and not get a single snap. Seems like he was acting out of anger and doing something above and beyond the normal punishment for being tardy to a practice. Seems like a worthwhile conversation to have. Trying to understand what motivated Billy Boy to do what he did today. People like to think he always acts fairly, or always acts in the best interests of the team, but sometimes I wonder if he sometimes does things purely out of ego, especially when he feels like his authorit may have been challenged.

You got Belichicked lol

 

[General Tso]

These are some crazy conspiracies. Have you guys read anything gray has said in interviews? He genuinely seems like a good kid, is a hard worker and knows his place. I guarantee he wasn't taking about the coaches in his Tweet and there's no way him being late was some passive aggressive response to the Blount signing.

What was the penalty for Revis after the missed practice? If I remember correctly he played the following game against Chicago. Funny how consistency and fairness take a back seat when it comes to winning.

Belichick isn't stupid. He's not sitting his best players. His team, his rules.

We are at last in agreement. I got confused earlier when you went down the accountability road. That word usually implies a sense of consistency and fairness, which obviously is not first and foremost when it comes to BB and the Pats.

 

[theplayer11]

These are some crazy conspiracies. Have you guys read anything gray has said in interviews? He genuinely seems like a good kid, is a hard worker and knows his place. I guarantee he wasn't taking about the coaches in his Tweet and there's no way him being late was some passive aggressive response to the Blount signing.

What was the penalty for Revis after the missed practice? If I remember correctly he played the following game against Chicago. Funny how consistency and fairness take a back seat when it comes to winning.

You got Belichicked. You should step away from the PC, have a beer and know your not the first.

Dude, are you as dumb as that picture of yours? I didn't get Belichiked at all. Once Blount got signed I knew it was pretty much over for Gray and didn't play him this week. I rolled the dice on a high upside player a few weeks ago, got lucky, and then got very unlucky. At this stage of the game I'm just wondering why Bill made him active only to have him sit on the sidelines the entire game with his helmet on and not get a single snap. Seems like he was acting out of anger and doing something above and beyond the normal punishment for being tardy to a practice. Seems like a worthwhile conversation to have. Trying to understand what motivated Billy Boy to do what he did today. People like to think he always acts fairly, or always acts in the best interests of the team, but sometimes I wonder if he sometimes does things purely out of ego, especially when he feels like his authorit may have been challenged.

you really can't understand this? A rookie overslept and was late to practice. The game plan was to throw. Pats just signed Blount.

Perfect time to set an example. I repeat, do you think Gray will oversleep again? Do you think anyone else on the team will?..LIFE LESSON...great coaching

 

[General Tso]

These are some crazy conspiracies. Have you guys read anything gray has said in interviews? He genuinely seems like a good kid, is a hard worker and knows his place. I guarantee he wasn't taking about the coaches in his Tweet and there's no way him being late was some passive aggressive response to the Blount signing.

What was the penalty for Revis after the missed practice? If I remember correctly he played the following game against Chicago. Funny how consistency and fairness take a back seat when it comes to winning.

You got Belichicked. You should step away from the PC, have a beer and know your not the first.

Dude, are you as dumb as that picture of yours? I didn't get Belichiked at all. Once Blount got signed I knew it was pretty much over for Gray and didn't play him this week. I rolled the dice on a high upside player a few weeks ago, got lucky, and then got very unlucky. At this stage of the game I'm just wondering why Bill made him active only to have him sit on the sidelines the entire game with his helmet on and not get a single snap. Seems like he was acting out of anger and doing something above and beyond the normal punishment for being tardy to a practice. Seems like a worthwhile conversation to have. Trying to understand what motivated Billy Boy to do what he did today. People like to think he always acts fairly, or always acts in the best interests of the team, but sometimes I wonder if he sometimes does things purely out of ego, especially when he feels like his authorit may have been challenged.

You got Belichicked lol

All I can see is our avatar saying that in a goofy voice. Made me laugh. Thanks : )

 

[Quez]

 

[General Tso]

These are some crazy conspiracies. Have you guys read anything gray has said in interviews? He genuinely seems like a good kid, is a hard worker and knows his place. I guarantee he wasn't taking about the coaches in his Tweet and there's no way him being late was some passive aggressive response to the Blount signing.

What was the penalty for Revis after the missed practice? If I remember correctly he played the following game against Chicago. Funny how consistency and fairness take a back seat when it comes to winning.

You got Belichicked. You should step away from the PC, have a beer and know your not the first.

Dude, are you as dumb as that picture of yours? I didn't get Belichiked at all. Once Blount got signed I knew it was pretty much over for Gray and didn't play him this week. I rolled the dice on a high upside player a few weeks ago, got lucky, and then got very unlucky. At this stage of the game I'm just wondering why Bill made him active only to have him sit on the sidelines the entire game with his helmet on and not get a single snap. Seems like he was acting out of anger and doing something above and beyond the normal punishment for being tardy to a practice. Seems like a worthwhile conversation to have. Trying to understand what motivated Billy Boy to do what he did today. People like to think he always acts fairly, or always acts in the best interests of the team, but sometimes I wonder if he sometimes does things purely out of ego, especially when he feels like his authorit may have been challenged.

you really can't understand this? A rookie overslept and was late to practice. The game plan was to throw. Pats just signed Blount.Perfect time to set an example. I repeat, do you think Gray will oversleep again? Do you think anyone else on the team will?..LIFE LESSON...great coaching

Wait a minute, what's the lesson here exactly?1) Revis over sleeps, gets sent home from practice, plays the entire next game.

2) Blount pouts at not being played enough, leaves the field DURING A GAME, gets fired by his team for it, and then gets signed by the Pats and gets the feature RB role 6 days later, plays the entire game, and scores 2 touchdowns.

3) Gray carries the ball 37 times, and the entire team on his shoulders, and turns in one of the greatest single rushing performances in history, and 4 days later his team signs Blount, he is then late for practice, gets sent home, and then doesn't get benched by being deactivated but gets to be publicly humiliated by standing on the sidelines the whole game with his helmet on and not getting one single snap.

I don't know, but where I come from true leadership and "great coaching" is measured by consistency and fairness. I don't really see any of that in the above, but maybe it's just me.

 

[PatsWillWin]

It's simple: avoid Patriots running game. It's a crap shoot.

I regularly start Vereen in my PPR league. No complains.

 

[PatsWillWin]

These are some crazy conspiracies. Have you guys read anything gray has said in interviews? He genuinely seems like a good kid, is a hard worker and knows his place. I guarantee he wasn't taking about the coaches in his Tweet and there's no way him being late was some passive aggressive response to the Blount signing.

What was the penalty for Revis after the missed practice? If I remember correctly he played the following game against Chicago. Funny how consistency and fairness take a back seat when it comes to winning.

You got Belichicked. You should step away from the PC, have a beer and know your not the first.

Dude, are you as dumb as that picture of yours? I didn't get Belichiked at all. Once Blount got signed I knew it was pretty much over for Gray and didn't play him this week. I rolled the dice on a high upside player a few weeks ago, got lucky, and then got very unlucky. At this stage of the game I'm just wondering why Bill made him active only to have him sit on the sidelines the entire game with his helmet on and not get a single snap. Seems like he was acting out of anger and doing something above and beyond the normal punishment for being tardy to a practice. Seems like a worthwhile conversation to have. Trying to understand what motivated Billy Boy to do what he did today. People like to think he always acts fairly, or always acts in the best interests of the team, but sometimes I wonder if he sometimes does things purely out of ego, especially when he feels like his authorit may have been challenged.

you really can't understand this? A rookie overslept and was late to practice. The game plan was to throw. Pats just signed Blount.Perfect time to set an example. I repeat, do you think Gray will oversleep again? Do you think anyone else on the team will?..LIFE LESSON...great coaching

Wait a minute, what's the lesson here exactly?1) Revis over sleeps, gets sent home from practice, plays the entire next game.

2) Blount pouts at not being played enough, leaves the field DURING A GAME, gets fired by his team for it, and then gets signed by the Pats and gets the feature RB role 6 days later and scores 2 touchdowns.

3) Gray carries the ball 37 times, and the entire team on his shoulders, and turns in one of the greatest single rushing performances in history, and 4 days later his team signs Blount, he is then late for practice, gets sent home, and then doesn't get benched by being deactivated but gets to be publicly humiliated by standing on the sidelines the whole game with his helmet on and not getting one single snap.

I don't know, but where I come from true leadership and "great coaching" is measured by consistency and fairness. I don't really see any of that in the above, but maybe it's just me.

The difference between Gray and those other guys is that you had Gray in a lineup and feel butthurt about it.

Single greatest rushing performances in history.

I like Gray. He's a nice player for what he is, and I'm glad we have him with Ridley out. But he ran 199 yards and I don't think he changed direction once. He's a no non-sense, North/South runner who given 37 carries against a joke of a defense will do a competent job. There was nothing "all time in history" about his performance last week unless you're just talking about pure stats, which of course, means very little outside of context.

 

[Apple Jack]

Good lord, that is some all-world whining.

 

[rdrouyn]

You were warned. Bill Belichek is the Fantasy Darth Vader.

 

[General Tso]

These are some crazy conspiracies. Have you guys read anything gray has said in interviews? He genuinely seems like a good kid, is a hard worker and knows his place. I guarantee he wasn't taking about the coaches in his Tweet and there's no way him being late was some passive aggressive response to the Blount signing.

What was the penalty for Revis after the missed practice? If I remember correctly he played the following game against Chicago. Funny how consistency and fairness take a back seat when it comes to winning.

You got Belichicked. You should step away from the PC, have a beer and know your not the first.

Dude, are you as dumb as that picture of yours? I didn't get Belichiked at all. Once Blount got signed I knew it was pretty much over for Gray and didn't play him this week. I rolled the dice on a high upside player a few weeks ago, got lucky, and then got very unlucky. At this stage of the game I'm just wondering why Bill made him active only to have him sit on the sidelines the entire game with his helmet on and not get a single snap. Seems like he was acting out of anger and doing something above and beyond the normal punishment for being tardy to a practice. Seems like a worthwhile conversation to have. Trying to understand what motivated Billy Boy to do what he did today. People like to think he always acts fairly, or always acts in the best interests of the team, but sometimes I wonder if he sometimes does things purely out of ego, especially when he feels like his authorit may have been challenged.

you really can't understand this? A rookie overslept and was late to practice. The game plan was to throw. Pats just signed Blount.Perfect time to set an example. I repeat, do you think Gray will oversleep again? Do you think anyone else on the team will?..LIFE LESSON...great coaching

Wait a minute, what's the lesson here exactly?1) Revis over sleeps, gets sent home from practice, plays the entire next game.

2) Blount pouts at not being played enough, leaves the field DURING A GAME, gets fired by his team for it, and then gets signed by the Pats and gets the feature RB role 6 days later and scores 2 touchdowns.

3) Gray carries the ball 37 times, and the entire team on his shoulders, and turns in one of the greatest single rushing performances in history, and 4 days later his team signs Blount, he is then late for practice, gets sent home, and then doesn't get benched by being deactivated but gets to be publicly humiliated by standing on the sidelines the whole game with his helmet on and not getting one single snap.

I don't know, but where I come from true leadership and "great coaching" is measured by consistency and fairness. I don't really see any of that in the above, but maybe it's just me.

The difference between Gray and those other guys is that you had Gray in a lineup and feel butthurt about it.

Single greatest rushing performances in history.

I like Gray. He's a nice player for what he is, and I'm glad we have him with Ridley out. But he ran 199 yards and I don't think he changed direction once. He's a no non-sense, North/South runner who given 37 carries against a joke of a defense will do a competent job. There was nothing "all time in history" about his performance last week unless you're just talking about pure stats, which of course, means very little outside of context.

Jeez, I'm starting to be embarrassed by being a Patriot fan... First off, I didn't play Gray, so you are wrong there. Second, pretty bush league to misquote me like that. I said "one of the single greatest rushing performances in history". And it wasn't me who originally said this - Al Michaels said it on Sunday night football. He put up a graphic at the end of the game showing the most dominating rushing performances in NFL history in terms of total yardage (over 200) and TD's (4 or more). The list consisted of only 7 or 8 people in NFL history, and other than Doug Martin I believe everyone else who did it was a Hall of Famer. Third, he ran for 201 yards, not 199, and he ran very well all night - hard, low to the ground, and with surprising quickness to the edge.The Pats do a lot of things well, but in this case I think they really screwed the kid. And as a Pats fan I'm sick of being on the wrong end of karma. Every time BB does something stupid (Aaron Hernandez, Spygate, etc) it comes back to bite us.