Jordan Peterson Explains Why (Radical) Leftists Don't Like Facts (5/23/22 14:24 PST) (1 Viewer)

[AAABatteries]

I don't know if he should be suspended. I still go back and forth on that. I think social media censorship is a hard question. 

But if nothing else, by deadnaming Elliott Page, Peterson has shown he's just a ####.

Tangent - I just started watching Umbrella Academy and was like - who is this lady, I've seen her before - then remembered it was Ellen Page from Juno.  I'm not sure I had any clue she was now Elliott Page and was unsure how they handle it in the show (or if they do).  I didn't want to read too much and have the show potentially spoiled but after finding out that he now goes by Elliott Page it made the scenes with Ellen (I'm assuming she still went by Ellen during s1??) kind of weird.

 

[moleculo]

Tangent - I just started watching Umbrella Academy and was like - who is this lady, I've seen her before - then remembered it was Ellen Page from Juno.  I'm not sure I had any clue she was now Elliott Page and was unsure how they handle it in the show (or if they do).  I didn't want to read too much and have the show potentially spoiled but after finding out that he now goes by Elliott Page it made the scenes with Ellen (I'm assuming she still went by Ellen during s1??) kind of weird.

The character transitions in S3 and everyone moves on without skipping a beat.  No big deal.  Not important to the plot so me telling you that isn't much of a spoiler.

 

[Philo Beddoe]

I don't like the term "radical leftist," but people who lie to left of liberals do often self-identify as "radicals."  In that community, "radical" means someone on the hard economic left who is actively opposed to capitalism.  Think of someone like Bernie Sanders, only more Marxist.  These people tend to not care much about culture war issues -- they see identity politics as a distraction from the more important issue of class conflict.

The other main flavor of more-left-than-liberal is the ideology that we refer to as "woke" because the people who hold this ideology refuse to give it a name.  This is the camp that gave us "pronouns in bio," DEI trainings, cancel culture, "anti-racism," and so on.

Ordinary "liberals" tend to look more like Mitt Romney or GHWB than either of these camps.  Liberals typically support free markets and free trade, support free speech, support the rule of law, and so on.  They typically wouldn't support banning books or interfering with peoples' freedom of thought, and they hold generally positive views toward the US.  Woke progressives are somewhere between indifferent to those norms and openly hostile to them.    

Jonathan Chait 2015

“The modern far left has borrowed the Marxist critique of liberalism and substituted race and gender identities for economic ones.”

“Can a white male liberal critique the country’s current political-correctness craze (which, by the way, hurts liberals most)? We’re sure you’ll let us know.” 

 

[Stoneworker]

what defines "radical leftist"?  I hear that tossed around a lot by our friends on the right, and i'm not sure what that means or who that represents. 

Of course there are people on the far left who push for crazy ideas, just as there people on the far right.  however, it seems that people on the far right accuse anyone left of center of being "radical".  I've been seeing this more and more all the time.

Where is the line between "liberal" and "radical leftist" drawn?

Medicare for All, basic income guarantee, open borders (or the current non-policy policy), defund-the-police, student loan forgiveness, woke culture, excessive diversity, equity, inclusion, birthing parents, Green New Deal, housing as a human right, etc, etc.

 

[sho nuff]

what defines "radical leftist"?  I hear that tossed around a lot by our friends on the right, and i'm not sure what that means or who that represents. 

Of course there are people on the far left who push for crazy ideas, just as there people on the far right.  however, it seems that people on the far right accuse anyone left of center of being "radical".  I've been seeing this more and more all the time.

Where is the line between "liberal" and "radical leftist" drawn?

It seems to be thrown around here to be purposefully inflammatory towards non-conservative posters.  And by non-conservative…I mean this current version of the Republican party. 

 

[moleculo]

Medicare for All, basic income guarantee, open borders (or the current non-policy policy), defund-the-police, student loan forgiveness, woke culture, excessive diversity, equity, inclusion, birthing parents, Green New Deal, housing as a human right, etc, etc.

So essentially anyone who wants things you don't is a "radical leftist"?

 

[Stoneworker]

So essentially anyone who wants things you don't is a "radical leftist"?

It's kind of like being at a poker table...anyone who can't immediately identify a radical leftist...is probably a radical leftist.

 

[moleculo]

It's kind of like being at a poker table...anyone who can't immediately identify a radical leftist...is probably a radical leftist.

what percentage of the PSF would you identify as "radical leftist"?

 

[(HULK)]

Tangent - I just started watching Umbrella Academy and was like - who is this lady, I've seen her before - then remembered it was Ellen Page from Juno.  I'm not sure I had any clue she was now Elliott Page and was unsure how they handle it in the show (or if they do).  I didn't want to read too much and have the show potentially spoiled but after finding out that he now goes by Elliott Page it made the scenes with Ellen (I'm assuming she still went by Ellen during s1??) kind of weird.

The updated the credits from earlier seasons to swap out Ellen for Elliott. I assume at his request.

Anyone who has an issue with that must have a dang fine life to have time and energy to be bothered with what the credits on a streaming show say.

 

[Rich Conway]

Medicare for All, basic income guarantee, open borders (or the current non-policy policy), defund-the-police, student loan forgiveness, woke culture, excessive diversity, equity, inclusion, birthing parents, Green New Deal, housing as a human right, etc, etc.

You know that several of these things were originally conservative/Republican ideas, right?

 

[(HULK)]

Medicare for All, basic income guarantee, open borders (or the current non-policy policy), defund-the-police, student loan forgiveness, woke culture, excessive diversity, equity, inclusion, birthing parents, Green New Deal, housing as a human right, etc, etc.

Some of these items are far more radical than others. Equity and inclusion being listed is, well, disappointing. You think trying to have a fair society for all citizens is radical?

 

[Stoneworker]

Some of these items are far more radical than others. Equity and inclusion being listed is, well, disappointing. You think trying to have a fair society for all citizens is radical?

You conveniently skipped over the word "excessive."

 

[Rich Conway]

You conveniently skipped over the word "excessive."

In fairness, given the structure of the punctuation, I would have assumed that "excessive" was only modifying "diversity" and not equity, inclusion, and any other items.

 

[Stoneworker]

In fairness, given the structure of the punctuation, I would have assumed that "excessive" was only modifying "diversity" and not equity, inclusion, and any other items.

Understandable. I would have used "DEI" but spelled it out to be clear.

 

[moleculo]

I'm curious how one defines how much diversity, equity, and inclusion is appropriate vs how much is excessive.  Clearly there is a line.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

I'm curious how one defines how much diversity, equity, and inclusion is appropriate vs how much is excessive.  Clearly there is a line.

When I encounter the terms "equity" or "inclusion" in the wild, something objectionable follows approximately 100% of the time.  For "diversity," I would say something objectionable follows about 60% or so of the time.  People who use those terms unironically tend to be fundamentalists about it.

 

[(HULK)]

You conveniently skipped over the word "excessive."

You know how grammar works? Excessive diversity was a different item on the list the way it is written.

I don't even understand how excessive equity could be a thing... it's not possible to have things be more equal than equal.

 

[(HULK)]

In fairness, given the structure of the punctuation, I would have assumed that "excessive" was only modifying "diversity" and not equity, inclusion, and any other items.

This

 

[Stoneworker]

You know how grammar works? Excessive diversity was a different item on the list the way it is written.

I don't even understand how excessive equity could be a thing... it's not possible to have things be more equal than equal.

Good luck having a meaningful discussion starting out with that.

 

[(HULK)]

Good luck having a meaningful discussion starting out with that.

If you fail to communicate properly it's not on the rest of the world to accommodate your mistakes. Sounds like something only a radical leftist would want.

 

[Stoneworker]

I'm curious how one defines how much diversity, equity, and inclusion is appropriate vs how much is excessive.  Clearly there is a line.

Politicizing the Federal Reserve Bank to include "advancing racial and economic justice" as part of their mandate is clearly excessive. 

The Fed can use its existing authorities to help reverse the serious racial gaps in our economy, including in our current recovery from the COVID-19 crisis - and our bill will require the Fed to do so," said Senator Warren. "Systemic racism and inequality is not something that happens on its own -- it is a result of specific policy choices and the Fed must take deliberate action to fix it."

 

[(HULK)]

Politicizing the Federal Reserve Bank to include "advancing racial and economic justice" as part of their mandate is clearly excessive. 

I'm in agreement on this issue. That is radical leftism.

 

[moleculo]

When I encounter the terms "equity" or "inclusion" in the wild, something objectionable follows approximately 100% of the time.  For "diversity," I would say something objectionable follows about 60% or so of the time.  People who use those terms unironically tend to be fundamentalists about it.

Politicizing the Federal Reserve Bank to include "advancing racial and economic justice" as part of their mandate is clearly excessive. 

would it be more fair to say "forced" equity or inclusion as opposed to excessive?

 

[(HULK)]

would it be more fair to say "forced" equity or inclusion as opposed to excessive?

I dunno. Like, some situations like school integration, it was forced but also very necessary.

Making it part of the mandate of a bank that's supposed to be primarily concerned with monetary policy is well, just a weird overreach.

 

[dkp993]

The calling of anyone not considered conservative “radical woke leftist” is the rights equivalent of mislabeling and slander to the left calling every conservative “racist”.  

 

[Joe Bryant]

Making it part of the mandate of a bank that's supposed to be primarily concerned with monetary policy is well, just a weird overreach.

I don't know the intent exactly of the thread of course but I think that's the kind of stuff that might be useful to discuss.

 

[Joe Bryant]

The calling of anyone not considered conservative “radical woke leftist” is the rights equivalent of mislabeling and slander to the left calling every conservative “racist”.  

I'm not sure. Racist has a much more serious and negative meaning than radical woke leftist. 

 

[dkp993]

The calling of anyone not considered conservative “radical woke leftist” is the rights equivalent of mislabeling and slander to the left calling every conservative “racist”.  

I'm not sure. Racist has a much more serious and negative meaning than radical woke leftist. 

I didn’t say they were equal in weight of accusation.  I said “mislabeling and slander”.  

In other words the left calls the right “racists” and the right calls the left “radical woke leftist”.  It’s their way of being dismissive of each other.   I think the “racists” accusation is clearly a worse one.  I was just merely speaking to the act of dismissiveness. 

 

[tommyGunZ]

The calling of anyone not considered conservative “radical woke leftist” is the rights equivalent of mislabeling and slander to the left calling every conservative “racist”.  

Does it matter that “the left” does not in fact call every conservative “racist”?  

 

[dkp993]

Does it matter that “the left” does not in fact call every conservative “racist”?  

It’s hard to deny it’s the go to for many on the left.  

 

[Philo Beddoe]

“A liberal is a man too broadminded to take his own side in a quarrel.”

Robert Frost

 

[(HULK)]

I think that the whole radical woke leftist, racist homophobe righty thing is entirely about dismissing a point of view by labelling the person holding that point of view. Honestly, it's irrelevant to the topic. If you favor discussion, focusing on the actual issue/topic is what should be done, rather than labelling those with opposing view points.

 

[Captain Cranks]

I didn’t say they were equal is weight of accusation.  I said “mislabeling and slander”.  

In other words the left calls the right “racists” and the right calls the left “radical woke leftist”.  It’s their way of being dismissive of each other.   I think the “racists” accusation is clearly a worse one.  I was just merely speaking to the act of dismissiveness. 

One thing I'm learning is that it's not upsetting to conservatives that people are generalized and mislabeled. It's upsetting to conservatives that conservatives are generalized and mislabeled. Labeling the left as pedos and groomers is perfectly acceptable for some.

 

[Rich Conway]

One thing I'm learning is that it's not upsetting to conservatives that people are generalized and mislabeled. It's upsetting to conservatives that conservatives are generalized and mislabeled. Labeling the left as pedos and groomers is perfectly acceptable for some.

Ditto cancel culture.  The MAGA crowd loves cancel culture as long as they are the ones doing the canceling (see: Florida GOP and Disney).

 

[GordonGekko]

The updated the credits from earlier seasons to swap out Ellen for Elliott. I assume at his request.Anyone who has an issue with that must have a dang fine life to have time and energy to be bothered with what the credits on a streaming show say.

Direct Headline: Elliot Page's Umbrella Academy Character Comes Out as Trans In Season 3

When Page first came out as transgender, insiders told Variety that Netflix didn’t have plans to change Page’s character’s gender on the show. “Trans actors can and do play both trans and cisgender characters. I’m sure Elliot will continue to be brilliant in Umbrella Academy and many different types of roles in the future,” Nick Adams, director of transgender media at GLAAD, told Variety at the time.

Sophia June 3/30/22

https://www.nylon.com/life/elliot-page-umbrella-academy-transgender-viktor-hargreeves

Direct Headline: Men Who Play Transgender Women Send a “Toxic and Dangerous” Message (Guest Column)

GLAAD's Nick Adams argues that Hollywood needs to let go of the idea "that putting a male actor in a dress, wig and makeup is an accurate portrayal of a transgender woman."...And yet — in spite of the critical and commercial success of projects that put trans people front and center — Hollywood is having a very difficult time letting go of the idea that putting a male actor in a dress, wig and makeup is an accurate portrayal of a transgender woman....

....The decision to put yet another man in a dress to portray a transgender woman touches a nerve for transgender people, and rightfully so. It’s yet another painful reminder that, in the eyes of so many people, transgender women are really just men.....

To all those writers, directors, producers and showrunners out there, let me say this: If you don’t see the dangerous real-world implications of casting men to play transgender women; if you are more concerned with the bottom line or with star power or with how your product will sell overseas, then don’t write transgender characters into your projects. We would rather be left out than be constantly portrayed as something we’re not. Portrayed in a way that gets us killed....That message is toxic and dangerous.....

Nick Adams September 1, 2016 5:11pm

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/general-news/matt-bomer-transgender-movie-anything-guest-column-925170/

Direct Headline: Umbrella Academy Fans Are Confused As To Why Elliot Page Will Return As Vanya

After Elliot Page announced in a public statement earlier this week that he’s a trans man, Netflix confirmed that he’ll continue playing Vanya Hargreeves, a cis woman, on The Umbrella Academy.... viewers have been confused by the logistics of a man portraying a woman....

Playing devils advocate but if a straight no trans played a trans character, there would be uproar in Hollywood. So should a man play a woman?

— Chris McLaughlin ( XX@XX Chr1sMcLaughlin) December 1, 2020

You genuinely believe if a non trans person played a trans character, there wouldn't be an issue?

— Chris McLaughlin ( XX@XX Chr1sMcLaughlin) December 1, 2020

Andrew Marshall Dec 3, 2020 12:49 pm

https://wegotthiscovered.com/tv/umbrella-academy-fans-confused-elliot-page-return-vanya/

********

I consider the positions and blind hypocrisy of Nick Adams of GLAAD to use the same tactics as any other grifter who operates as a pseudo "now socially approved" cultural terrorist.

The first defense against that is just to call myself a bigot. Except there's always a larger overall context.

Adams says that Hollywood roles should not be "appropriated", but when Ellen Page became Elliot Page, the "message" became it's not a big deal.

"Anyone who has an issue" will point out Adams and Page found a way to make the lives of LGBT much much harder. Not by being LGBT, but by setting the wrong example in front of the general public and to a massive audience that will not tolerate the cognitive dissonance.

The change to the Vanya character didn't happen organically. It happened because the positions held by cultural terrorists like Adams were no longer tenable against practical media optics. That's not real substance and without real substance, you can't demand the world around you changes substantively towards more empathy.

Your purity test only reinforces that total lack of empathy for the rest of the world that it's not just all about Ellen Page/Elliot Page.  Hence the root of all cultural terrorists is a kind of unhinged relentless narcissism. This approach defies all basic tenets of actual effective behavioral psychology. It tries to sell the idea that validation can only be attained externally.  What a horrible overall example for the entire LGBT community.

Maybe we should skip to the part where woke radicals here start shouting "Bigot! Bigot!" because actual context is too suffocating.

“There are some games you don't get to play unless you are all in.”
― Jordan B. Peterson

“...if you cannot understand why someone did something, look at the consequences—and infer the motivation.”
― Jordan B. Peterson

“If your life is not what it could be, try telling the truth. If you cling desperately to an ideology, or wallow in nihilism, try telling the truth. If you feel weak and rejected, and desperate, and confused, try telling the truth. In Paradise, everyone speaks the truth. That is what makes it Paradise. Tell the truth. Or, at least, don’t lie.”
― Jordan B. Peterson

 

[tymarsas]

Direct Headline: Elliot Page's Umbrella Academy Character Comes Out as Trans In Season 3

When Page first came out as transgender, insiders told Variety that Netflix didn’t have plans to change Page’s character’s gender on the show. “Trans actors can and do play both trans and cisgender characters. I’m sure Elliot will continue to be brilliant in Umbrella Academy and many different types of roles in the future,” Nick Adams, director of transgender media at GLAAD, told Variety at the time.

Sophia June 3/30/22

https://www.nylon.com/life/elliot-page-umbrella-academy-transgender-viktor-hargreeves

Direct Headline: Men Who Play Transgender Women Send a “Toxic and Dangerous” Message (Guest Column)

GLAAD's Nick Adams argues that Hollywood needs to let go of the idea "that putting a male actor in a dress, wig and makeup is an accurate portrayal of a transgender woman."...And yet — in spite of the critical and commercial success of projects that put trans people front and center — Hollywood is having a very difficult time letting go of the idea that putting a male actor in a dress, wig and makeup is an accurate portrayal of a transgender woman....

....The decision to put yet another man in a dress to portray a transgender woman touches a nerve for transgender people, and rightfully so. It’s yet another painful reminder that, in the eyes of so many people, transgender women are really just men.....

To all those writers, directors, producers and showrunners out there, let me say this: If you don’t see the dangerous real-world implications of casting men to play transgender women; if you are more concerned with the bottom line or with star power or with how your product will sell overseas, then don’t write transgender characters into your projects. We would rather be left out than be constantly portrayed as something we’re not. Portrayed in a way that gets us killed....That message is toxic and dangerous.....

Nick Adams September 1, 2016 5:11pm

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/general-news/matt-bomer-transgender-movie-anything-guest-column-925170/

Direct Headline: Umbrella Academy Fans Are Confused As To Why Elliot Page Will Return As Vanya

After Elliot Page announced in a public statement earlier this week that he’s a trans man, Netflix confirmed that he’ll continue playing Vanya Hargreeves, a cis woman, on The Umbrella Academy.... viewers have been confused by the logistics of a man portraying a woman....

Playing devils advocate but if a straight no trans played a trans character, there would be uproar in Hollywood. So should a man play a woman?

— Chris McLaughlin ( XX@XX Chr1sMcLaughlin) December 1, 2020

You genuinely believe if a non trans person played a trans character, there wouldn't be an issue?

— Chris McLaughlin ( XX@XX Chr1sMcLaughlin) December 1, 2020

Andrew Marshall Dec 3, 2020 12:49 pm

https://wegotthiscovered.com/tv/umbrella-academy-fans-confused-elliot-page-return-vanya/

********

I consider the positions and blind hypocrisy of Nick Adams of GLAAD to use the same tactics as any other grifter who operates as a pseudo "now socially approved" cultural terrorist.

The first defense against that is just to call myself a bigot. Except there's always a larger overall context.

Adams says that Hollywood roles should not be "appropriated", but when Ellen Page became Elliot Page, the "message" became it's not a big deal.

"Anyone who has an issue" will point out Adams and Page found a way to make the lives of LGBT much much harder. Not by being LGBT, but by setting the wrong example in front of the general public and to a massive audience that will not tolerate the cognitive dissonance.

The change to the Vanya character didn't happen organically. It happened because the positions held by cultural terrorists like Adams were no longer tenable against practical media optics. That's not real substance and without real substance, you can't demand the world around you changes substantively towards more empathy.

Your purity test only reinforces that total lack of empathy for the rest of the world that it's not just all about Ellen Page/Elliot Page.  Hence the root of all cultural terrorists is a kind of unhinged relentless narcissism. This approach defies all basic tenets of actual effective behavioral psychology. It tries to sell the idea that validation can only be attained externally.  What a horrible overall example for the entire LGBT community.

Maybe we should skip to the part where woke radicals here start shouting "Bigot! Bigot!" because actual context is too suffocating.

“There are some games you don't get to play unless you are all in.”
― Jordan B. Peterson

“...if you cannot understand why someone did something, look at the consequences—and infer the motivation.”
― Jordan B. Peterson

“If your life is not what it could be, try telling the truth. If you cling desperately to an ideology, or wallow in nihilism, try telling the truth. If you feel weak and rejected, and desperate, and confused, try telling the truth. In Paradise, everyone speaks the truth. That is what makes it Paradise. Tell the truth. Or, at least, don’t lie.”
― Jordan B. Peterson

I am not sure I understand your point. I don't agree with Adams that it is appropriation for a cis actor to play a trans character, but that's not what is happened here. It is a trans actor playing a trans character. Isn't that exactly what Adams wants? Isn't that a good example for the LGBT community?

 

[tommyGunZ]

It’s hard to deny it’s the go to for many on the left.  

How many?   5%?  

What's your guesstimate for the percentage of folks on the left who label every conservative racist?

 

[Sand]

How many?   5%?  

What's your guesstimate for the percentage of folks on the left who label every conservative racist?

I would put it at roughly half.

"The right believes the left are people with bad opinions.  The left believes the right are bad people."  Very general, but I've found it to be more and more true as time goes on.

 

[AAABatteries]

The character transitions in S3 and everyone moves on without skipping a beat.  No big deal.  Not important to the plot so me telling you that isn't much of a spoiler.

I was more thinking maybe they kill off the character if Elliott no longer wanted to play a woman or have romantic interest with a man on screen.  But thanks for the heads up.

 

[AAABatteries]

How many?   5%?  

What's your guesstimate for the percentage of folks on the left who label every conservative racist?

I would put it at roughly half.

"The right believes the left are people with bad opinions.  The left believes the right are bad people."  Very general, but I've found it to be more and more true as time goes on.

These posts b2b remind me of a thread I thought about starting.

You guys are throwing out guesses on the % of a group that isn't even well defined about another group that isn't well defined.  I'm not positive but I think In mathematics they call that a #### show.  We all throw around names and labels so freely that they become almost meaningless.  

 

[dkp993]

How many?   5%?  

What's your guesstimate for the percentage of folks on the left who label every conservative racist?

Tommy- we can parse words if you’d like, but do you understand the context of what I was saying or not?  My use of “every” in that sentence was likely hyperbolic and unintentional. The context of my point was what I was focused on conveying not every word being analyzed.  

 

[tymarsas]

I would put it at roughly half.

"The right believes the left are people with bad opinions.  The left believes the right are bad people."  Very general, but I've found it to be more and more true as time goes on.

I've seen that quote many times and it might be the most hilariously smug and hypocritical thing I've ever read. Essentially "that group of people is bad for generalizing my group of people as bad, but when my group does it we are principled".

 

[That one guy]

The character transitions in S3 and everyone moves on without skipping a beat.  No big deal.  Not important to the plot so me telling you that isn't much of a spoiler.

It’s quite possibly the best I’ve seen any of these so-called controversial topics tackled by a TV show, literally nothing more than *this thing happened and everyone is cool, whatevs*.  It made absolutely no impact at all to the people, the story, the show.  To me that was simplistically refreshing

 

[FairWarning]

The woman speaking at the NEA convention insisting on calling mothers “birthing people” would qualify as radical left.  

 

[AAABatteries]

The woman speaking at the NEA convention insisting on calling mothers “birthing people” would qualify as radical left.  

a crazy person

 

[BladeRunner]

It’s quite possibly the best I’ve seen any of these so-called controversial topics tackled by a TV show, literally nothing more than *this thing happened and everyone is cool, whatevs*.  It made absolutely no impact at all to the people, the story, the show.  To me that was simplistically refreshing

While I agree that this was the first I've ever seen something like this muted (usually it's a seven episode arc celebrating stuff like this), I disagree that it would be that easy on everyone else around her.  Not a single person messed up her name after that.  Or misgendered her.

From what I understand, it was the show writers who insisted on putting this in, not her.   She was perfectly fine playing the character as female (which is what should have been done, IMO).

 

[LawFitz]

“If your life is not what it could be, try telling the truth. If you cling desperately to an ideology, or wallow in nihilism, try telling the truth. If you feel weak and rejected, and desperate, and confused, try telling the truth. In Paradise, everyone speaks the truth. That is what makes it Paradise. Tell the truth. Or, at least, don’t lie.”
― Jordan B. Peterson

 

[moleculo]

I would put it at roughly half.

"The right believes the left are people with bad opinions.  The left believes the right are bad people."  Very general, but I've found it to be more and more true as time goes on.

its interesting that the people who say the above are the right - i.e. its the right stating what they believe the left believes.

 

[moleculo]

It’s quite possibly the best I’ve seen any of these so-called controversial topics tackled by a TV show, literally nothing more than *this thing happened and everyone is cool, whatevs*.  It made absolutely no impact at all to the people, the story, the show.  To me that was simplistically refreshing

yeah, I hadn't thought about it, but you are right, and the lack of a big deal is probably the biggest deal of all.

 

[moleculo]

Direct Headline: Elliot Page's Umbrella Academy Character Comes Out as Trans In Season 3

When Page first came out as transgender, insiders told Variety that Netflix didn’t have plans to change Page’s character’s gender on the show. “Trans actors can and do play both trans and cisgender characters. I’m sure Elliot will continue to be brilliant in Umbrella Academy and many different types of roles in the future,” Nick Adams, director of transgender media at GLAAD, told Variety at the time.

Sophia June 3/30/22

https://www.nylon.com/life/elliot-page-umbrella-academy-transgender-viktor-hargreeves

Direct Headline: Men Who Play Transgender Women Send a “Toxic and Dangerous” Message (Guest Column)

GLAAD's Nick Adams argues that Hollywood needs to let go of the idea "that putting a male actor in a dress, wig and makeup is an accurate portrayal of a transgender woman."...And yet — in spite of the critical and commercial success of projects that put trans people front and center — Hollywood is having a very difficult time letting go of the idea that putting a male actor in a dress, wig and makeup is an accurate portrayal of a transgender woman....

....The decision to put yet another man in a dress to portray a transgender woman touches a nerve for transgender people, and rightfully so. It’s yet another painful reminder that, in the eyes of so many people, transgender women are really just men.....

To all those writers, directors, producers and showrunners out there, let me say this: If you don’t see the dangerous real-world implications of casting men to play transgender women; if you are more concerned with the bottom line or with star power or with how your product will sell overseas, then don’t write transgender characters into your projects. We would rather be left out than be constantly portrayed as something we’re not. Portrayed in a way that gets us killed....That message is toxic and dangerous.....

Nick Adams September 1, 2016 5:11pm

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/general-news/matt-bomer-transgender-movie-anything-guest-column-925170/

Direct Headline: Umbrella Academy Fans Are Confused As To Why Elliot Page Will Return As Vanya

After Elliot Page announced in a public statement earlier this week that he’s a trans man, Netflix confirmed that he’ll continue playing Vanya Hargreeves, a cis woman, on The Umbrella Academy.... viewers have been confused by the logistics of a man portraying a woman....

Playing devils advocate but if a straight no trans played a trans character, there would be uproar in Hollywood. So should a man play a woman?

— Chris McLaughlin ( XX@XX Chr1sMcLaughlin) December 1, 2020

You genuinely believe if a non trans person played a trans character, there wouldn't be an issue?

— Chris McLaughlin ( XX@XX Chr1sMcLaughlin) December 1, 2020

Andrew Marshall Dec 3, 2020 12:49 pm

https://wegotthiscovered.com/tv/umbrella-academy-fans-confused-elliot-page-return-vanya/

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I consider the positions and blind hypocrisy of Nick Adams of GLAAD to use the same tactics as any other grifter who operates as a pseudo "now socially approved" cultural terrorist.

The first defense against that is just to call myself a bigot. Except there's always a larger overall context.

Adams says that Hollywood roles should not be "appropriated", but when Ellen Page became Elliot Page, the "message" became it's not a big deal.

"Anyone who has an issue" will point out Adams and Page found a way to make the lives of LGBT much much harder. Not by being LGBT, but by setting the wrong example in front of the general public and to a massive audience that will not tolerate the cognitive dissonance.

The change to the Vanya character didn't happen organically. It happened because the positions held by cultural terrorists like Adams were no longer tenable against practical media optics. That's not real substance and without real substance, you can't demand the world around you changes substantively towards more empathy.

Your purity test only reinforces that total lack of empathy for the rest of the world that it's not just all about Ellen Page/Elliot Page.  Hence the root of all cultural terrorists is a kind of unhinged relentless narcissism. This approach defies all basic tenets of actual effective behavioral psychology. It tries to sell the idea that validation can only be attained externally.  What a horrible overall example for the entire LGBT community.

Maybe we should skip to the part where woke radicals here start shouting "Bigot! Bigot!" because actual context is too suffocating.

“There are some games you don't get to play unless you are all in.”
― Jordan B. Peterson

“...if you cannot understand why someone did something, look at the consequences—and infer the motivation.”
― Jordan B. Peterson

“If your life is not what it could be, try telling the truth. If you cling desperately to an ideology, or wallow in nihilism, try telling the truth. If you feel weak and rejected, and desperate, and confused, try telling the truth. In Paradise, everyone speaks the truth. That is what makes it Paradise. Tell the truth. Or, at least, don’t lie.”
― Jordan B. Peterson

i have no idea what the purple above means.  Can you dumb it down for me?  I mean, I think, as someone who has watched Umbrella Academy since S1 and will finish S3 tonight, I think you are probably way off base, but as I don't know what you are referring to, its hard for me to comment.