Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
Josh Freeman - what's his future hold? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Tool
- Start date
Freeman has played poorly, but I really can't blame the guy. Schiano has not supported his development at all the last 2 years and has regularly undermined him. What else should Freeman do? Tuck his tail and go quietly into the night? Any competitor would want a second shot and I can't blame the guy.
Everything people are saying about Glennon people were saying about Freeman -- tall, strong arm, suspect decision making. Maybe that is bad news for Glennon, but I do think that Freeman is still young enough to emerge as a quality starter in this league. He definitely needs to be coached up, but I don't think Freeman is done in this league. However, if he does have a drug problem that doesn't get resolved, THAT could be enough to derail his career, which would be really unfortunate.
At this point, I think it would be in the Bucs interest to try and trade Freeman -- why not? Try and get something, anything in return to help the new GM and new coach rebuild the team next year.
Everything people are saying about Glennon people were saying about Freeman -- tall, strong arm, suspect decision making. Maybe that is bad news for Glennon, but I do think that Freeman is still young enough to emerge as a quality starter in this league. He definitely needs to be coached up, but I don't think Freeman is done in this league. However, if he does have a drug problem that doesn't get resolved, THAT could be enough to derail his career, which would be really unfortunate.
At this point, I think it would be in the Bucs interest to try and trade Freeman -- why not? Try and get something, anything in return to help the new GM and new coach rebuild the team next year.
Breesisdaman
Footballguy
If Freeman didn't have a huge guaranteed contract 8.43 million this year, he might be off to be someones backup or He would be a starter in Jacksonville , maybe Cleveland. Too much $$$ so the Bucs and Freeman are stuck with each other.
Last edited by a moderator:
Last edited by a moderator:
Raiderfan32904
Footballguy
Well you get your first look at Palmer this weekend. He's coming to town. Before you throw dirt on Palmer, check out the QB that plays against him in a side by side comparison, then throw out your judgment. I agree, he's not very good. Let that be the yardstick to compare Glennon to.
Chase Daniel and Drew Stanton?! It's been a long time since I've seen a professional head coach this willing to cut off his nose to spite his face.
In a sense, it's a shame that Freeman has performed poorly enough to justify the decision Schiano had arrived at before the season even kicked off. Otherwise, this had all the makings of a highly entertaining trainwreck instead of just a garden-variety trainwreck.
Last edited by a moderator:
Quez
Footballguy
Once again I find myself defending a coach I don't really like, but it's comments like these that make it necessary.
Schiano has a background as a DB coach and on the defensive side of the ball. He was never a QB coach, or even an OC. You can look to blame Schiano, Raheem, Greg Olson, John McNulty, Mike Sullivan, or whoever you want, but at the end of the day Josh Freeman has nobody to blame but Josh Freeman.
To miss meetings, be late, blow off your own football camp for kids, miss the team photo, etc... This is rediculous for a professional in a contract year. Oversleeping? Maybe losing millions of dolalrs is what it will take for this guy to learn how to use an alarm clock.
And as a QB, he stared down receivers, and could NEVER fake out a safety. He has never progressed as a QB.
It's unfair to blame Schiano for Josh Freemans downfall.
Raiderfan32904
Footballguy
Except they would probably had to trade a late draft pick (not an issue) with the Raiders and pay his crazy contract with $28 million left on it for two years (big time issue). Yes, Carson is an ideal vet to mentor a young QB and he did help out Terrelle Pryor a lot. Who knows what he may have been able to help Josh Freeman? But Carson wasn't going to play in the eastern time zone if he had any say in it. It was always going to be Phoenix once the Raiders de-committed to him. That's why he never returned the Bucs phone calls.
Quez
Footballguy
Big Dog yesterday - "He needs help"
Shaun King a few weeks ago - "Addiction is a problem blah blah blah I hope he can get help blah blah blah"
The podcast are on 620 if your interested. It's no secret in this town the guy likes to party.
Quez
Footballguy
Wow, I didn't realize AZ was paying him that much. No thanks. Once again why I think taking a flyer on a rookie is the best option these days. The new rookie wage scale really makes it worth the risk. If you miss on one you can cut bait and not be set back 5 years like in years past.
Even if Glennon looks good they could choose to use an early pick on either a backup or competition, and it would still be a wise cap move. That is partially why I wasn't against the Glennon pick. His salary is a bargain and beneficial to the cap even for a backup QB.
Last edited by a moderator:
Grahamburn
Footballguy
Raiderfan32904
Footballguy
AZ only is paying him $10 Million for this year and I think another $6 million next year though that's not guaranteed. So Carson did take a healthy paycut from his Raiders contract. But once he was released from it, he got to pick and choose his next destination. He was not coming to Tampa unless they paid a premium for him.
Quez
Footballguy
I don't think a trade for Josh Freeman will ever happen. The Bucs are better off waiting for the NFL to give them a compensatory pick. I doubt they would get a 3rd for him, but a 5th or 6th is possible. So, the only way a trade gets done is if someone is willing to give a 4th, and I don't think that he is worth that.
As far as Schefter saying a trade unlikely until a QB gets hurt... Translation, nobody wants him. Not to mention, one of the excuses people always made for Josh was that "he hasn't been in the same system for 2 consecutive years". So, if the guy had a hard time learning a new system in training camp & off-season, then what are the chances he can pick up a new system quickly?
As far as Schefter saying a trade unlikely until a QB gets hurt... Translation, nobody wants him. Not to mention, one of the excuses people always made for Josh was that "he hasn't been in the same system for 2 consecutive years". So, if the guy had a hard time learning a new system in training camp & off-season, then what are the chances he can pick up a new system quickly?
Quez
Footballguy
I don't disagree with this. NE was probably his best game of the 3. However, I have seen a far more in depth breakdown of the Saints game and it really opened my eyes as to how bad he was. Someone did a good job of breaking down the coaching tape on Bucnation, and it's really what the cameras don't show that were his problem. He does a terrible job of seeing the field, and throwing to the best target. So, even if he made a completion, it may have been a TD if he threw to a different guy. This is an example of why stats are bs.
Freeman put up two good years and two bad ones in his first four full seasons. He's got all the physical tools necessary to be a successful NFL QB, but he clearly hasn't progressed as a passer or a leader since his 2010 campaign - in fact, he's probably regressed. Even so, for a guy with a 78.8 career rating and 6.9 YPA, "hideous" would be an overreach even now, much less this past offseason (which is when Schiano was out courting these other guys).Premier said:
You couldn't find 5 people in the entire NFL who'd have argued coming into training camp that Chase Daniel or Drew Stanton would give the Bucs a better chance to win in 2013 than Josh Freeman. But it's clear that one of those 5 was his own head coach!
If that coach had been Bill Belichick or Pete Carroll, I'd have been much more likely to trust his judgement. Greg Schiano? Not so much.
Clearly Josh has some off the field stuff going on, probably addiction issues as has been heavily rumored. I'm not absolving him of his clear role in his own demise as an NFL starting QB. However, to absolve Schiano is equally problematic imo. While he is a defensive coach, as head coach, you are the leader of the team, period. I mean, hey, he's out pursuing other QBs, right? And, Drew Stanton :X OOOOOOOOF :XGrahamburn said:
Schiano CLEARLY wanted his guy from day one, so he has clearly undermined Freeman since he arrived. How is that going to help Freeman develop as a young QB?
The Bucs were THRILLED to draft Freeman, despite the fans going "Huh???" when he was drafted. In his first couple years, he started showing a lot of promise and the fans bought in. Then, Schiano arrives, Freeman starts having off field problems, and his play starts going into a nosedive.
If he can get the off-field stuff resolved and a second chance on a franchise that can coach him up, why would it surprise anyone if he goes on to have a solid (not great) career as an NFL starting QB for another team in his late 20s and into his 30s, when most QBs actually come into their own?
Warrior
Footballguy
Of course they'll "try" to trade him. They obviously know that getting something for him is better than nothing. But they won't get anything.
Grahamburn
Footballguy
Weeks 5-10 last year, and even week 11 really, Josh was pretty great. 16 TDs to 3 INTs great. Like, people were talking MVP great. Schiano was the coach during those games.
Since that stretch the Bucs have lost 8 of 9 with the only win coming against an Atlanta team in week 17 that had already clinched their playoff berth. That's really bad. Josh has 8 TDs and 13 INTs in those games.
What happened?!
He's missed meetings. He missed the first day of his own football camp. He missed the team photo. When you're the starting quarterback for an NFL team you can't do that. Something has happened with this guy to cause that kind of statistical regression, and I don't think you can pin it all on Schiano.
There is a ton of talent on this team. Way too much talent to have lost 8 out of their last 9. Like I said, I've defended Josh a lot, but this change needed to happen.
Raiderfan32904
Footballguy
The Bucs should demote Freeman to #3 QB or emergency QB. Back in 99, when Dungy was the head coach, he benched Dilfer for poor performance and and unknown rookie came in to mop up the season only to get hurt and Dilfer went back in. That's an egg on face potential situation. You know the fanbase is not happy about the direction of the franchise. They were expecting a playoff contending team and invest their season tickets and made plans accordingly. Now the fanbase is being told it's a complete rebuilding year with an OTJ rookie QB handed the keys to the new caddilac. It's not going to be fun watching from the stands, seeing Glennon learn by the school of hard knocks. When they see #5 on the sidelines in a baseball cap, there are going to be restlessness and jeers, maybe sarcastic, but maybe sincere to get Josh back in the game. There's only so much misery anyone is willing to watch. This could blow up in the Bucs faces. They need to trade him, and failing that, need to consider cutting him and take their medicine. The distraction of having Freeman as a spectator isn't worth any benefits of him potentially being forced into a mop up role. He knows his own franchise thinks he's an incorragable failure. They can no longer co-exist.
Quez
Footballguy
I'm sure Schiano would of rather had Josh be a great QB instead of having to pursue other QBs. I am also sure the reason he was out pursuing other QBs is because he didn't think he was as great as perceived. Besides, there is nothing at all wrong with bringing in competition at every position. Not only is competition good, but people get hurt. You have to have a capable backup at every position.
I agree Freeman could go on to be good somewhere else, but he squandered his opportunity here. Nobody ever questioned his physical ability. The problem with Freeman is between his ears, and his commitment & dedication.
Also, you may still be able to get a few Bucs for your Freeman jersey on Ebay. If anything you could just peel off the "Free" and it would just say "man" which could really be anyone, and won't seem outdated.
Raiderfan32904
Footballguy
I like this idea of updating the #5 jersey. But instead of simply peeling off the "Free", I'd replace it with "C'mon"
I'm not denying the change needed to happen. All I'm saying is that if Freeman is a competitor at all, which he appears to be, then he should be fired up to try and get a second chance with another team
I'm also not pinning it all on Schiano. I said right in my post that Freeman has played a role in his own demise as a starting QB
I'm just saying you can't 100% absolve Schiano on the Freeman issue
I'm not a Freeman fanboy. Look back through my posts and I've said a lot that Freeman is inaccurate, esp on timing routes, and that he makes a lot of bad decisions.
I can believe that and also, simultaneously, believe that Freeman is a young QB with potential who has received poor support and coaching from the Bucs. Schiano and Morris have been bad coaches and the Bucs haven't been able to develop a QB in a long time.
RUSF18
Footballguy
A kind of funny/interesting situation I just remembered. When Schiano was at Rutgers, our offense was generally disappointing especially towards the end of his tenure. He would bring in fairly unknown OCs every couple years, guys he knew he could control and who would be conservative and mix in with his defense-first philosophy. Guys like Frank Cignetti, Kirk Ciarrocca, and John McNulty (currently on his TB staff). So Schiano leaves Rutgers, Kyle Flood steps in at HC and his first major hire is to bring in Ron Prince at Offensive Coordinator this season, and gives him full autonomy with the offense. Early results are very positive. And Prince got his big break at Kansas State when, right after he got hired, he was able to convince Josh Freeman to commit.
fantasycurse42
Footballguy Jr.
A lot of powder and a chapter 7 filing in the year 2019
Mr. Retukes
Footballguy
Freeman reportedly skipped team meetings and has been deactivated for this week's game.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000251904/article/josh-freeman-missed-bucs-meetings-inactive-sunday
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000251904/article/josh-freeman-missed-bucs-meetings-inactive-sunday
fruity pebbles
Footballguy
He just needs to shut up. Everything he does right now, words and actions, screams whiny tool.
Riffraff
Footballguy
Wonder if he tries to push the envelop and eventually makes the team fine / suspend him for conduct detrimental to the team.
only listened at a few points for a bit. rambles a bit at the beginning but it doesn't sound too bad to me.
cstu
Footballguy
Raiderfan32904
Footballguy
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9750827/sources-josh-freeman-tampa-bay-buccaneers-nfl-drug-program-not-danger-suspension
Josh Freeman is in Stage 1 of NFL's drug program. The other shoe just dropped.
Josh Freeman is in Stage 1 of NFL's drug program. The other shoe just dropped.
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
Not really sure what to make of it, but...
Raiderfan32904
Footballguy
Looks like a meth addict in that photo. ESPN had the pic tucked away waiting to break this story.
Scumbag move to tarnish his name yet somehow not hurt his trade value too much. I'd venture to guess a vast number of players are in this stage yet their teams have yet to go public with it. I'm gonna enjoy watching schiano get sent back to the college ranks with his tail between his legs.
