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Justice League (1 Viewer)

Hawks64 said:
But as a non comic reader did you know who Hela was? GrandMaster? The Collector? Klaw? Ultron? Most non comic readers won't and that's ok, Marvel killed it with them and how they were presented. Which means familiarity doesn't matter. DC has sucked donkey richards so it's one more thing they have to overcome.
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The reason it works in marvel is the villains aren't irrelevant fringe guys. They are actually villains that have had decent histories in the marvel line.  They also introduce new heroes as they roll the villains out and the heroes ARE fairly well known (generally, marvel has more mid-major type heroes to draw from...it's not all about the bat, the super cat, and the green ring).  And, not unimportant, when you go to a marvel movie, there are ALWAYS others in the theater that are pretty much authorities on the marvel universe.  As soon as you saw the first infinity them reference edrop in a marvel movie, you had people in every isle buzzing and you could see them telling their less knowledgeable friends what that means.   

 
Shutout said:
The reason it works in marvel is the villains aren't irrelevant fringe guys. They are actually villains that have had decent histories in the marvel line.  They also introduce new heroes as they roll the villains out and the heroes ARE fairly well known (generally, marvel has more mid-major type heroes to draw from...it's not all about the bat, the super cat, and the green ring).  And, not unimportant, when you go to a marvel movie, there are ALWAYS others in the theater that are pretty much authorities on the marvel universe.  As soon as you saw the first infinity them reference edrop in a marvel movie, you had people in every isle buzzing and you could see them telling their less knowledgeable friends what that means.   
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The reason it works is Marvel is better at the making movies than DC. Period. Steppenwolf isn't an unknown villain or one without a long history, but I'm a DC guy so I recognize who he is and his importance. He's a new god of Apokalyips, serving Darkseid as the leader of his armies and the parademons and he's a member of the Elite. Created by the great Jake Kirby and has been around since the 70s. He's not as known as Granny Goodness but is around in pretty much any story involving Darkseid, so saying it's an irrelevant or fringe guy doesn't work IMO. DC sucks at the movies and that's why it matters. Marvel says the villain is Klaw, everyone is like hmm don't know that character but IDGAF since they kill it with these movies. DC says the Villain isn't the Joker or Luthor and everyone is like wtf is that? Awful.

 
Hawks64 said:
The reason it works is Marvel is better at the making movies than DC. Period. Steppenwolf isn't an unknown villain or one without a long history, but I'm a DC guy so I recognize who he is and his importance. He's a new god of Apokalyips, serving Darkseid as the leader of his armies and the parademons and he's a member of the Elite. Created by the great Jake Kirby and has been around since the 70s. He's not as known as Granny Goodness but is around in pretty much any story involving Darkseid, so saying it's an irrelevant or fringe guy doesn't work IMO. DC sucks at the movies and that's why it matters. Marvel says the villain is Klaw, everyone is like hmm don't know that character but IDGAF since they kill it with these movies. DC says the Villain isn't the Joker or Luthor and everyone is like wtf is that? Awful.
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Well then, perhaps it is much more about basic brand recognition then.  If the average Joe doesn't know anyone in the DC universe beyond Batman, Superman, and the joker and Lex, then it isn't just movies- they haven't done well marketing their brand for 60 years.

It's hard for me today because I'm a comic book junkie and, to me, it seems, like people just know who a lot of marvel characters are beyond the top 20 moreso than they know Dc.  But it's hard for me to say.  

 
Shutout said:
Well then, perhaps it is much more about basic brand recognition then.  If the average Joe doesn't know anyone in the DC universe beyond Batman, Superman, and the joker and Lex, then it isn't just movies- they haven't done well marketing their brand for 60 years.

It's hard for me today because I'm a comic book junkie and, to me, it seems, like people just know who a lot of marvel characters are beyond the top 20 moreso than they know Dc.  But it's hard for me to say.  
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Look at Capella's post, he said he didn't know who Hela, GrandMaster, The Collector or Klaw were. But his perception of Marvel >>>> DC because Marvel makes damn good movies. You don't care about the names or who anyone is since they have proven since movie #1 they do a great job of making it all accessible and enjoyable. Outside of the Nolan films DC has been a steaming pile, so DC went all in making everything dark and gritty. Which really only fits Batman, a dark GL movie or Superman? No thanks. I am hoping that Whedon put enough into JL(A) that I get to see some of my other DC favorites on the big screen but I don't hold high hopes.

 
Hawks64 said:
 I am hoping that Whedon put enough into JL(A) that I get to see some of my other DC favorites on the big screen but I don't hold high hopes.
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I did not follow the production too closely.  I only now read that Whedon ended up re-shooting and finishing the movie when Snyder went away (death in family?)

I saw today that there was some controversy when Whedon "liked" a tweet stating that "Steppenwolf was the worst comic book villain of all time".  

 
Hawks64 said:
But as a non comic reader did you know who Hela was? GrandMaster? The Collector? Klaw? Ultron? Most non comic readers won't and that's ok, Marvel killed it with them and how they were presented. Which means familiarity doesn't matter. DC has sucked donkey richards so it's one more thing they have to overcome.
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The biggest criticism of marvel movies has been their horrible villains with many people considering Loki their only good one. 

 
NewlyRetired said:
I did not follow the production too closely.  I only now read that Whedon ended up re-shooting and finishing the movie when Snyder went away (death in family?)

I saw today that there was some controversy when Whedon "liked" a tweet stating that "Steppenwolf was the worst comic book villain of all time".  
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I saw the same with Whedon liking that tweet, hopefully he's done enough to be able to keep the DC movies going.

 
DC tried to make their current/past couple of years comic universe into a movie franchise when the majority of the viewing public is more familiar with their SuperFriends version.  

That and the actors they've gotten haven't been really that good in the roles.  To their credit....Marvel took distressed assets (Robert Downey) and up and comers (Evans/Hemsworth/Pratt) who were perfect for the characters they portrayed.  DC hasn't done that all. 

 
Shutout said:
Well then, perhaps it is much more about basic brand recognition then.  If the average Joe doesn't know anyone in the DC universe beyond Batman, Superman, and the joker and Lex, then it isn't just movies- they haven't done well marketing their brand for 60 years.
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Do you really think the average Joe knew anyone from Marvel outside of Spiderman (and Marvel Studios did not even own him until recently), Hulk, and Captain America before the movies?

It's not like Loki, Iron Man, Vision, Black Widow, Hawkeye, Guardians of the Galaxy, Thor, Thanos, or Black Panther were household names outside of comic book people.

 
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I'm not average - I'm exceptional

I couldn't tell you anyone outside most of the regular people

*although I wait for HBO to watch any of these movies anyway.

** Funny story, I'm at work and this was when one of the X-Men movie came out.  Not even sure how it came up but it was about the Liev Shreiber character (i don't remember the name).

Guy goes thats Wolverines brother you dork.   I :lmao:  and said "I'm the dork?!@?!?@"   - that got a chuckle out of everyone.

 
Thunderlips said:
DC tried to make their current/past couple of years comic universe into a movie franchise when the majority of the viewing public is more familiar with their SuperFriends version.  
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SuperFriends version was the way to go to start. Then once you’ve got the audience you can start getting into the more hardcore stuff. 

I’m a casual and I’m seeing the previews and am like....where the hell is Superman and Green Lantern?

 
The best thing that ever happened to Marvel is that not as many people knew the back stories of the characters, hero or villain. Here me out. EVERYONE knows how Batman and Superman came to be. So when you see a batman reboot, every single director shoots the same scene of his parents being killed in another artistic way. There's nothing more they can do to make those characters grow and evolve because they've evolved all they ever will over the last 50 years. Take BvS. It was simply that they hate each other and then fought on the same side when a bigger threat arrived. That was the only evolution in the characters. 

Not knowing much about Tony Stark is magical when they tell about the billionaire playboy genius. Not having any idea who Loki is other than a character in Dogma is great. Learning about Black Widow and Nick Fury is what helps the story. One of the more interesting stories in the last Batman franchise was the evolution of Commissioner Gordon because we pretty much only know Gordon as the Commissioner, not how he got there and not why Batman trusts him so much. 

And that may have helped WW. I knew she was an Amazonian, but had no other knowledge of her background. I didn't know she had a sword and shield or could fly (other than in an invisible jet). 

That and the Marvel Characters are so much more real. Other than dark Batman, pretty much all the DC guys are all Truth, Justice and the American Way with fists planted firmly on hips and chests puffed out. Peter Parker, Bruce Banner, Tony Stark (early on, not as much later on), Black Widow all have big character flaws. Captain America is very DC like, but he's the only one. And this mirrors how DC started and how Timely/Atlas/Marvel comics came to be. One was all black and white and bland (with the distribution network) and the other was great story telling and graphics but their distribution was controlled by DC. 

(can you tell I just saw the Robert Kirkman's documentary on Marvel?)

 
shadyridr said:
The biggest criticism of marvel movies has been their horrible villains with many people considering Loki their only good one. 
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To be fair to Disney/Marvel.......they didn't own any of the rights to most of Marvels heavy hitter villains.  Not having access to any of Spider-Man, the Fantastic 4 or the Marvel Mutants villains really limited their options.  They've done about as good as they could have. 

 
Thunderlips said:
To be fair to Disney/Marvel.......they didn't own any of the rights to most of Marvels heavy hitter villains.  Not having access to any of Spider-Man, the Fantastic 4 or the Marvel Mutants villains really limited their options.  They've done about as good as they could have. 
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Fair point indeed

 
Dr. Octopus said:
Do you really think the average Joe knew anyone from Marvel outside of Spiderman (and Marvel Studios did not even own him until recently), Hulk, and Captain America before the movies?

It's not like Loki, Iron Man, Vision, Black Widow, Hawkeye, Guardians of the Galaxy, Thor, Thanos, or Black Panther were household names outside of comic book people.
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Well, like I said in my earlier post, I may not be a good person for having this opinion because I'm a comic book junkie. So to me, it's almost wild tomthink that a person interested enough to go see a comic book based movie wouldn't have a fairly broad knowledge base (like, do casual Harry Potter fans go to these movies not knowing basic info beyond the main character?).  

But like I said, I'm not the casual fan.  When I first hear G.O.T.G was going to be made, I was drooling thinking I was going to see the version that includes Ripjak and the storyline of the Martian earth invasion.  I thought it would be great to see all the old characters that lived through the war, etc.  So I don't expect everyone to follow the non-main characters and story arcs but I guess I thought if a person was fan enough to go see some DC movies, they would have a pretty good base for the universe at large.  

 
Shutout said:
Well, like I said in my earlier post, I may not be a good person for having this opinion because I'm a comic book junkie. So to me, it's almost wild tomthink that a person interested enough to go see a comic book based movie wouldn't have a fairly broad knowledge base (like, do casual Harry Potter fans go to these movies not knowing basic info beyond the main character?).  

But like I said, I'm not the casual fan.  When I first hear G.O.T.G was going to be made, I was drooling thinking I was going to see the version that includes Ripjak and the storyline of the Martian earth invasion.  I thought it would be great to see all the old characters that lived through the war, etc.  So I don't expect everyone to follow the non-main characters and story arcs but I guess I thought if a person was fan enough to go see some DC movies, they would have a pretty good base for the universe at large.  
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They only know what they saw in the previous movie, yes.  I never touched a Harry Potter book until I'd seen all of the movies.  I'd much rather see a movie first, then read the book, since the book usually has far more in it than the movies do.

 
Shutout said:
Well, like I said in my earlier post, I may not be a good person for having this opinion because I'm a comic book junkie. So to me, it's almost wild tomthink that a person interested enough to go see a comic book based movie wouldn't have a fairly broad knowledge base (like, do casual Harry Potter fans go to these movies not knowing basic info beyond the main character?).  

But like I said, I'm not the casual fan.  When I first hear G.O.T.G was going to be made, I was drooling thinking I was going to see the version that includes Ripjak and the storyline of the Martian earth invasion.  I thought it would be great to see all the old characters that lived through the war, etc.  So I don't expect everyone to follow the non-main characters and story arcs but I guess I thought if a person was fan enough to go see some DC movies, they would have a pretty good base for the universe at large.  
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Walking dead

Game of thrones

Preacher

Gotg

These are just some examples of shows or movies I've seen with zero background from the source material. Its pretty normal. 

 
Saw it today.  It was fun enough.  Steppenwolf was cliche as all get out and the CUBES OF DOOM were pretty cheesy but ... get the lead char. chemistry right, keep the plot moving and don't botch the fight scenes... I'm happy enough with a comic movie if It does those things.  This did. 

Not as good as WW, but way better than Man of Steel or Batman vs Superman.  

 
TheFanatic said:
The best thing that ever happened to Marvel is that not as many people knew the back stories of the characters, hero or villain. Here me out. EVERYONE knows how Batman and Superman came to be. So when you see a batman reboot, every single director shoots the same scene of his parents being killed in another artistic way. There's nothing more they can do to make those characters grow and evolve because they've evolved all they ever will over the last 50 years. Take BvS. It was simply that they hate each other and then fought on the same side when a bigger threat arrived. That was the only evolution in the characters. 

Not knowing much about Tony Stark is magical when they tell about the billionaire playboy genius. Not having any idea who Loki is other than a character in Dogma is great. Learning about Black Widow and Nick Fury is what helps the story. One of the more interesting stories in the last Batman franchise was the evolution of Commissioner Gordon because we pretty much only know Gordon as the Commissioner, not how he got there and not why Batman trusts him so much. 

And that may have helped WW. I knew she was an Amazonian, but had no other knowledge of her background. I didn't know she had a sword and shield or could fly (other than in an invisible jet). 

That and the Marvel Characters are so much more real. Other than dark Batman, pretty much all the DC guys are all Truth, Justice and the American Way with fists planted firmly on hips and chests puffed out. Peter Parker, Bruce Banner, Tony Stark (early on, not as much later on), Black Widow all have big character flaws. Captain America is very DC like, but he's the only one. And this mirrors how DC started and how Timely/Atlas/Marvel comics came to be. One was all black and white and bland (with the distribution network) and the other was great story telling and graphics but their distribution was controlled by DC. 

(can you tell I just saw the Robert Kirkman's documentary on Marvel?)
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Agreed. Take Gotham for example. The worst part of that show is Bruce. Gordon and the rising villains are somewhat interesting and make it worthwhile. Like you said, we don't really know young Gordon, penguin, Riddler, etc. So seeing their backstory and development along with the lesser known characters is kind of fun. 

Not knowing how a character will develop doesn't always been success of course. Aside from seeing Halle Berry in leather, Catwoman was horrible. The Daredevil movies weren't good imo, but Netflix was excellent. 

We'll wait for the cheap theater to see JL, but we made sure to see Thor early. We've come to care about the MCU, don't see us getting there with DC. 

 
AhrnCityPahnder said:
Saw it today.  It was fun enough.  Steppenwolf was cliche as all get out and the CUBES OF DOOM were pretty cheesy but ... get the lead char. chemistry right, keep the plot moving and don't botch the fight scenes... I'm happy enough with a comic movie if It does those things.  This did. 

Not as good as WW, but way better than Man of Steel or Batman vs Superman.  
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:goodposting: This is where I am at, definitely think Whedon helped lighten this up a ton. I could feel the heaviness of Snyder pulling often but having not just the Flash have light moments was good. Feels like Whedon there to me. Overall a decent flick. I really wanted to see more of Momoa on screen, another pleasant surprise for me.

I am not sure this really sets up a ton moving forward, I figured it would have had a Darkseid moment or stronger reference in one of the post credit scenes. I was pleasantly surprised by Deathstroke and a whole lot of

:X with Luthor. I was hoping to see Steppenwolf being brought back to heal or him at least on Apokolips and maybe Granny Goodness or something.
 
Rumors are that Affleck is out of future movies. Gylenhall will be the new batman and will slide into future movies without a reboot. 

 
SwampDawg said:
And in those leather pants  :yes:
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Oh, hell yes!

When she was walking down the street looking for Cyborg and they had the camera centered on her קַת in those pants. Plus, she can tie me up any time, with or without the golden lasso

 
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Capella said:
Rumors are that Affleck is out of future movies. Gylenhall will be the new batman and will slide into future movies without a reboot. 
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Won't need a reboot after the Flash movie. It's supposed to be based on Flashpoint so guessing they will wipe all the crap away and start pseudo fresh without the need for a reboot.

 
Hawks64 said:
Won't need a reboot after the Flash movie. It's supposed to be based on Flashpoint so guessing they will wipe all the crap away and start pseudo fresh without the need for a reboot.
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I don't know anything about flashpoint. How would that bring about a completely different batman? 

 
It was worth seeing - lacked a lot of heart until Superman showed up.  Steppenwolf was a horrible choice - and going all out CGI on him was even worse.  I loved the novice Flash - the mid movie scene with Supes was great.  Cyborg was a bad choice but fit the story.  

Going Injustice League in the sequel would be an awesome idea.  Part of why Avengers 2 was flat was it was too close in villain to Avengers 1 - mid level power Avengers fighting henchmen.

 
Capella said:
I don't know anything about flashpoint. How would that bring about a completely different batman? 
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Because Flash goes and f's around with time and parallel dimensions. Historically DC has always gone about retconning bad storylines/character changes by a big all encompassing crossover, there were multiple different Crisis series (Crisis on Mulitple Earths, Infinite Crisis, Final Crisis), The New 52 and Flashpoint. All were part of changing timelines, charcaters, etc.

If they are moving forward with Flashpoint then there are plans to do something with the timelines and/or the characters.

 
The Dude said:
It was worth seeing - lacked a lot of heart until Superman showed up.  Steppenwolf was a horrible choice - and going all out CGI on him was even worse.  I loved the novice Flash - the mid movie scene with Supes was great.  Cyborg was a bad choice but fit the story.  

Going Injustice League in the sequel would be an awesome idea.  Part of why Avengers 2 was flat was it was too close in villain to Avengers 1 - mid level power Avengers fighting henchmen.
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The more I think about it, it does feel like a different version of Superman in JLA. Seemed to a be a lighter/more hopeful version that lines up with the character better.

I really hope they don't go that route, I'd much prefer to see Darkseid in the next movie if it gets made.

 
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