Kamala Harris' border crisis. Biden put her in charge. (1 Viewer)

[KarmaPolice]

I might not have addressed your points specifically as well. As far as those two points, IMO a huge problem with our current system is the ridiculous backlog of cases combined with the inability to process. SC just posted that it's 40% of encounters that get in, and thats a lot.

What if we waved a magic wand and say tomorrow we had the facilities and ability to see all cases within 2 days, and the ability to hear these cases within that time. That would mean we instantly also turn away the people who shouldn't be here, and anybody who in let in, there is now no question of their status. Less need for Sanctuary cities, less stigma of the people coming across from the south vs other parts of the world, and its a deterrent to people because they know the option of getting in and hiding way less likely. Also, when or if the encounters drop these people could address the back cases and/or help with overstayed visas and those illegals.

That's the type of solution I would strive for- it addresses many of the main problems we are dealing with, not just one like a wall.

Does it fix everything, no. But for addressing the overall issue imo it is a far better use of money and a far better first step.

 

[FairWarning]

Well the border has to be the first thing, no matter what method. The other part that you allude to (people overstaying their visas), that is trickier. That was the issue with sanctuary cities vs ICE. Don’t know how that fixes anything.

 

[KarmaPolice]

Well the border has to be the first thing, no matter what method. The other part that you allude to (people overstaying their visas), that is trickier. That was the issue with sanctuary cities vs ICE. Don’t know how that fixes anything.

I believe my ideas address the border as I said. I'm not saying it wouldn't be a learning curve or time to calm down, but to me it feels like we are in a rut of just 2 ways to address it and it's not working. Time for long term solutions, not just one party letting it pile up, then the next one opening it up more without plans.

All that said, then my cynical side sets in and I ask- do the powers that be REALLY want there to be a large decrease in illegals? Imo R and D is a side show- its the 1% who run the show and there is a ton of money to be made exploiting these people. Making money on labor, and making money via prisons and deportations. I don't believe either party is truly serious about addressing this long term.

 

[KarmaPolice]

I feel like a core disagreement I have with many in here is that I don't believe the Rs care long term about the problem either, for reasons above. They will posture, and talk a big game, but as I've said before if they were truly serious about cracking down either party would go after businesses who employ illegals. Nope, never even a whiff of that, even when they are in power to do so. So it's just a game of political hot potato as one team slows the flow a bit, the other opens it, while they point fingers and nothing long term happens.

Overall I think people are fooling themselves if they think a wall is going to happen. Sure an R president might start one, then the D team will stop it, etc.

 

[Stealthycat]

I don’t think anyone has an idea how many we catch.

or don't catch

and the fact we have no idea should be highly troubling to everyone

I think the disconnect is people living far away in places and communities that all this doesn't really affect them and so they have this idealism of it all that just isn't a reality. Things they're NEVER want in their community they're very content with happening in other communities, because simply? its not their problem

ask Martha's Vineyard and the "sanctuary" cities that are now carrying a little of the burden as Texas and Florida share it.

 

[Stealthycat]

It's almost assuredly the Chinese government.

I google - we're #1 !!!

List of largest employers - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Stealthycat]

So how do you propose fixing the last point? We have established two things
- not all of them want to be here legally
- sanctuary cities protect the illegals.

nothing can be fixed until the southern border is secured

 

[Stealthycat]

Now we are in the goalpost moving portion of the discussion. Awesome. Good to know I underestimated the % of encounters sent back.

But yes I agree- this is what a wall addresses, and have said as much. Due to cameras and such they have estimates as to what that number is- you don't have to guess and make up numbers.

We agree on this, so we should agree your solution doesn't solve illegals in the country, and it only addresses a portion of the problems when we talk about the border and illegal immigrants.

I've moved nothing - you think cameras are catching all the illegals and trafficked humans? lol !! that's funny

I 100% promise you if the southern border was sealed today, tomorrow there would be very few illegally crossing people. Anytime you secure some place, that's what happens, didn't you know ?

 

[Stealthycat]

Sorry, what last point? The numbers that get across regardless, that a wall would help address?

If so, I said the other day, that it's not like I am against securing those trouble spots- be it with more tech, people, wall, etc. Of those things, I am still mostly against a physical wall because it just sits there and does nothing else- ie people could be used a variety of ways, tech could be moved/updated, etc. I know it sounds silly, but I will admit the symbolism of it is a part of my not liking it too.
Also, my overall gripe is the suggestion that this should be first and foremost step, and especially when it's suggested like SC did that it will fix illegals in the US.

If that's not what you meant, forgive the early morning rant and clarify.

look around you - privacy fences everywhere, businesses with chain link fencing and security by way of barriers, schools have barriers, .... physical barriers have always been used to deter and they work because they're used all over by so many people

the rich? they live in barrier communities ..... barriers to keep out all the people who'd illegally try to get in there, right ? its like that

what other walls/barriers are you against ?

it won't 100% stop it all ... but right now, illegals walk right across the border and come on in unchecked ..... illegally and unacceptable

 

[sho nuff]

Sorry, what last point? The numbers that get across regardless, that a wall would help address?

If so, I said the other day, that it's not like I am against securing those trouble spots- be it with more tech, people, wall, etc. Of those things, I am still mostly against a physical wall because it just sits there and does nothing else- ie people could be used a variety of ways, tech could be moved/updated, etc. I know it sounds silly, but I will admit the symbolism of it is a part of my not liking it too.
Also, my overall gripe is the suggestion that this should be first and foremost step, and especially when it's suggested like SC did that it will fix illegals in the US.

If that's not what you meant, forgive the early morning rant and clarify.

look around you - privacy fences everywhere, businesses with chain link fencing and security by way of barriers, schools have barriers, .... physical barriers have always been used to deter and they work because they're used all over by so many people

the rich? they live in barrier communities ..... barriers to keep out all the people who'd illegally try to get in there, right ? its like that

what other walls/barriers are you against ?

it won't 100% stop it all ... but right now, illegals walk right across the border and come on in unchecked ..... illegally and unacceptable

You think privacy fences in a residence are really there for security?
They are there for "privacy"...to sit in your backyard/patio and not have people looking at you...to keep your dog in without being on a leash. They are not at all effective as far as security...similar to most border walls.

 

[KarmaPolice]

Now we are in the goalpost moving portion of the discussion. Awesome. Good to know I underestimated the % of encounters sent back.

But yes I agree- this is what a wall addresses, and have said as much. Due to cameras and such they have estimates as to what that number is- you don't have to guess and make up numbers.

We agree on this, so we should agree your solution doesn't solve illegals in the country, and it only addresses a portion of the problems when we talk about the border and illegal immigrants.

I've moved nothing - you think cameras are catching all the illegals and trafficked humans? lol !! that's funny

I 100% promise you if the southern border was sealed today, tomorrow there would be very few illegally crossing people. Anytime you secure some place, that's what happens, didn't you know ?

Dude in this thread you have posted that you consider asylum seekers illegal. You know they come through the POEs too, right?

 

[KarmaPolice]

Sorry, what last point? The numbers that get across regardless, that a wall would help address?

If so, I said the other day, that it's not like I am against securing those trouble spots- be it with more tech, people, wall, etc. Of those things, I am still mostly against a physical wall because it just sits there and does nothing else- ie people could be used a variety of ways, tech could be moved/updated, etc. I know it sounds silly, but I will admit the symbolism of it is a part of my not liking it too.
Also, my overall gripe is the suggestion that this should be first and foremost step, and especially when it's suggested like SC did that it will fix illegals in the US.

If that's not what you meant, forgive the early morning rant and clarify.

look around you - privacy fences everywhere, businesses with chain link fencing and security by way of barriers, schools have barriers, .... physical barriers have always been used to deter and they work because they're used all over by so many people

the rich? they live in barrier communities ..... barriers to keep out all the people who'd illegally try to get in there, right ? its like that

what other walls/barriers are you against ?

it won't 100% stop it all ... but right now, illegals walk right across the border and come on in unchecked ..... illegally and unacceptable

As usual you are either not reading or not digesting my posts. Also the usual of picking out one line of a long post and incorrectly representing what I am saying.

I said it addresses the gotaways. On top of that is does nothing else, as in doesn't addresses the myriad of other issues with the border and immigration. And it's a small % of the issue.

What I propose above addresses some of your concerns, admitted nor as effectively AND addresses speed of processing, back cases, finding current illegals, etc. Your concrete wall doesn't.

 

[KarmaPolice]

Sorry, what last point? The numbers that get across regardless, that a wall would help address?

If so, I said the other day, that it's not like I am against securing those trouble spots- be it with more tech, people, wall, etc. Of those things, I am still mostly against a physical wall because it just sits there and does nothing else- ie people could be used a variety of ways, tech could be moved/updated, etc. I know it sounds silly, but I will admit the symbolism of it is a part of my not liking it too.
Also, my overall gripe is the suggestion that this should be first and foremost step, and especially when it's suggested like SC did that it will fix illegals in the US.

If that's not what you meant, forgive the early morning rant and clarify.

look around you - privacy fences everywhere, businesses with chain link fencing and security by way of barriers, schools have barriers, .... physical barriers have always been used to deter and they work because they're used all over by so many people

the rich? they live in barrier communities ..... barriers to keep out all the people who'd illegally try to get in there, right ? its like that

what other walls/barriers are you against ?

it won't 100% stop it all ... but right now, illegals walk right across the border and come on in unchecked ..... illegally and unacceptable

You think privacy fences in a residence are really there for security?
They are there for "privacy"...to sit in your backyard/patio and not have people looking at you...to keep your dog in without being on a leash. They are not at all effective as far as security...similar to most border walls.

I was reading about the Golden State Killer. The dude purposely stalked neighborhoods with single story houses and fences because it was easier to get away and hide. Those fences aren't stopping ****, and like you said mostly are decoration/privacy/keeping a pet in.

But yeah, of course it was totally not my point and (checks notes) yep- even posted that I wasn't totally against the wall and admitted it would help drop the gotaway numbers. Just the idea that it's the key to solving the overall issue I find misguided.

 

[KarmaPolice]

Long story short, I need out of this hospital. So bored I am clicking "show ignored content" too much.

 

[FairWarning]

Sorry, what last point? The numbers that get across regardless, that a wall would help address?

If so, I said the other day, that it's not like I am against securing those trouble spots- be it with more tech, people, wall, etc. Of those things, I am still mostly against a physical wall because it just sits there and does nothing else- ie people could be used a variety of ways, tech could be moved/updated, etc. I know it sounds silly, but I will admit the symbolism of it is a part of my not liking it too.
Also, my overall gripe is the suggestion that this should be first and foremost step, and especially when it's suggested like SC did that it will fix illegals in the US.

If that's not what you meant, forgive the early morning rant and clarify.

look around you - privacy fences everywhere, businesses with chain link fencing and security by way of barriers, schools have barriers, .... physical barriers have always been used to deter and they work because they're used all over by so many people

the rich? they live in barrier communities ..... barriers to keep out all the people who'd illegally try to get in there, right ? its like that

what other walls/barriers are you against ?

it won't 100% stop it all ... but right now, illegals walk right across the border and come on in unchecked ..... illegally and unacceptable

As usual you are either not reading or not digesting my posts. Also the usual of picking out one line of a long post and incorrectly representing what I am saying.

I said it addresses the gotaways. On top of that is does nothing else, as in doesn't addresses the myriad of other issues with the border and immigration. And it's a small % of the issue.

What I propose above addresses some of your concerns, admitted nor as effectively AND addresses speed of processing, back cases, finding current illegals, etc. Your concrete wall doesn't.

We will disagree that it’s a small percentage. Anyway let’s say we do get 40,000 judges to handle this. It’s only encouraging more to come over as we can process more. There has to be a breaking point, and no one wants to address it.

 

[sho nuff]

Sorry, what last point? The numbers that get across regardless, that a wall would help address?

If so, I said the other day, that it's not like I am against securing those trouble spots- be it with more tech, people, wall, etc. Of those things, I am still mostly against a physical wall because it just sits there and does nothing else- ie people could be used a variety of ways, tech could be moved/updated, etc. I know it sounds silly, but I will admit the symbolism of it is a part of my not liking it too.
Also, my overall gripe is the suggestion that this should be first and foremost step, and especially when it's suggested like SC did that it will fix illegals in the US.

If that's not what you meant, forgive the early morning rant and clarify.

look around you - privacy fences everywhere, businesses with chain link fencing and security by way of barriers, schools have barriers, .... physical barriers have always been used to deter and they work because they're used all over by so many people

the rich? they live in barrier communities ..... barriers to keep out all the people who'd illegally try to get in there, right ? its like that

what other walls/barriers are you against ?

it won't 100% stop it all ... but right now, illegals walk right across the border and come on in unchecked ..... illegally and unacceptable

You think privacy fences in a residence are really there for security?
They are there for "privacy"...to sit in your backyard/patio and not have people looking at you...to keep your dog in without being on a leash. They are not at all effective as far as security...similar to most border walls.

I was reading about the Golden State Killer. The dude purposely stalked neighborhoods with single story houses and fences because it was easier to get away and hide. Those fences aren't stopping ****, and like you said mostly are decoration/privacy/keeping a pet in.

But yeah, of course it was totally not my point and (checks notes) yep- even posted that I wasn't totally against the wall and admitted it would help drop the gotaway numbers. Just the idea that it's the key to solving the overall issue I find misguided.

Yeah. I feel the same way.

 

[KarmaPolice]

Sorry, what last point? The numbers that get across regardless, that a wall would help address?

If so, I said the other day, that it's not like I am against securing those trouble spots- be it with more tech, people, wall, etc. Of those things, I am still mostly against a physical wall because it just sits there and does nothing else- ie people could be used a variety of ways, tech could be moved/updated, etc. I know it sounds silly, but I will admit the symbolism of it is a part of my not liking it too.
Also, my overall gripe is the suggestion that this should be first and foremost step, and especially when it's suggested like SC did that it will fix illegals in the US.

If that's not what you meant, forgive the early morning rant and clarify.

look around you - privacy fences everywhere, businesses with chain link fencing and security by way of barriers, schools have barriers, .... physical barriers have always been used to deter and they work because they're used all over by so many people

the rich? they live in barrier communities ..... barriers to keep out all the people who'd illegally try to get in there, right ? its like that

what other walls/barriers are you against ?

it won't 100% stop it all ... but right now, illegals walk right across the border and come on in unchecked ..... illegally and unacceptable

As usual you are either not reading or not digesting my posts. Also the usual of picking out one line of a long post and incorrectly representing what I am saying.

I said it addresses the gotaways. On top of that is does nothing else, as in doesn't addresses the myriad of other issues with the border and immigration. And it's a small % of the issue.

What I propose above addresses some of your concerns, admitted nor as effectively AND addresses speed of processing, back cases, finding current illegals, etc. Your concrete wall doesn't.

We will disagree that it’s a small percentage. Anyway let’s say we do get 40,000 judges to handle this. It’s only encouraging more to come over as we can process more. There has to be a breaking point, and no one wants to address it.

There is nothing that says we have to let every soul in, so more judges doesn't necessarily mean that.

When I say small %, I mean those are a fraction of the overall encounters at the border. Imo that is not debatable unless you believe that the number of unevountered = millions a year. I have never seen any estimate that high, even the last two years.

When I say it's a small portion of the issue, I think of the border/immigration as a whole which includes: encounters, gotaways, overstayed Visas, drugs, court hearings, etc.
Again, not sure where the disagreement is that is a small %, but I am guessing you are taking a narrower view of it when discussing the issue? If so, cool- we should just keep that in mind.

 

[Stealthycat]

You think privacy fences in a residence are really there for security?
They are there for "privacy"...to sit in your backyard/patio and not have people looking at you...to keep your dog in without being on a leash. They are not at all effective as far as security...similar to most border walls.

they absolutely give added levels of security - I guess you think businesses don't get security from their fences/barriers either ?

google is your friend

Privacy Fence: How It Offers Both Comfort and Security

You want to create the perfect space in your backyard for your friends and family to enjoy all throughout the year. You want to host barbecues, potlucks or even simply relax outside after a long day at work. All these things can be accomplished with a well maintained backyard that has a privacy...

www.lahabrafence.com

Preventing Thefts and Trespassing​

With a privacy fence installed, thefts and trespassing incidents can be prevented. Your property will be secured and a stranger is less likely to trespass your property line if it is surrounded by a privacy fence.

Can Fencing Reduce Your Homeowners Insurance Cost? | L&C Fence and Gate

Homeowners insurance protects you financially if your property is damaged or someone has an accident while visiting you. Raising your deductible, installin

www.lcfencegate.com

A fence might reduce your homeowners insurance premium, too.
Reduce Vandalism and Burglary Risk

Build a sturdy fence around your property, and vandals or burglars are less likely to enter your home. Your insurance costs could go down because of this security measure.

​

 

[Stealthycat]

As usual you are either not reading or not digesting my posts. Also the usual of picking out one line of a long post and incorrectly representing what I am saying.

I said it addresses the gotaways. On top of that is does nothing else, as in doesn't addresses the myriad of other issues with the border and immigration. And it's a small % of the issue.

What I propose above addresses some of your concerns, admitted nor as effectively AND addresses speed of processing, back cases, finding current illegals, etc. Your concrete wall doesn't.

a wall/barrier is absolutely needed, more border security patrol is needed (how about 87,000 of them vs 87,000 trying to find tax errors?)

seal the border, make it very hard to get across and people would stop trying - nobody is going to travel 500-1000 miles to stop at a border they can't get across

it would help stop a large % of the drugs coming across, it would dry up the human trafficking



until we seal the border none of that stops and anyone who is against border being sealed is essentially saying they're ok with the massive drugs and human trafficking and humanitarian crisis and impacts to US citizens

 

[FairWarning]

Sorry, what last point? The numbers that get across regardless, that a wall would help address?

If so, I said the other day, that it's not like I am against securing those trouble spots- be it with more tech, people, wall, etc. Of those things, I am still mostly against a physical wall because it just sits there and does nothing else- ie people could be used a variety of ways, tech could be moved/updated, etc. I know it sounds silly, but I will admit the symbolism of it is a part of my not liking it too.
Also, my overall gripe is the suggestion that this should be first and foremost step, and especially when it's suggested like SC did that it will fix illegals in the US.

If that's not what you meant, forgive the early morning rant and clarify.

look around you - privacy fences everywhere, businesses with chain link fencing and security by way of barriers, schools have barriers, .... physical barriers have always been used to deter and they work because they're used all over by so many people

the rich? they live in barrier communities ..... barriers to keep out all the people who'd illegally try to get in there, right ? its like that

what other walls/barriers are you against ?

it won't 100% stop it all ... but right now, illegals walk right across the border and come on in unchecked ..... illegally and unacceptable

As usual you are either not reading or not digesting my posts. Also the usual of picking out one line of a long post and incorrectly representing what I am saying.

I said it addresses the gotaways. On top of that is does nothing else, as in doesn't addresses the myriad of other issues with the border and immigration. And it's a small % of the issue.

What I propose above addresses some of your concerns, admitted nor as effectively AND addresses speed of processing, back cases, finding current illegals, etc. Your concrete wall doesn't.

We will disagree that it’s a small percentage. Anyway let’s say we do get 40,000 judges to handle this. It’s only encouraging more to come over as we can process more. There has to be a breaking point, and no one wants to address it.

There is nothing that says we have to let every soul in, so more judges doesn't necessarily mean that.

When I say small %, I mean those are a fraction of the overall encounters at the border. Imo that is not debatable unless you believe that the number of unevountered = millions a year. I have never seen any estimate that high, even the last two years.

When I say it's a small portion of the issue, I think of the border/immigration as a whole which includes: encounters, gotaways, overstayed Visas, drugs, court hearings, etc.
Again, not sure where the disagreement is that is a small %, but I am guessing you are taking a narrower view of it when discussing the issue? If so, cool- we should just keep that in mind.

The problem isn’t people coming in at the border, it’s the ones who are coming in elsewhere.

 

[KarmaPolice]

Sorry, what last point? The numbers that get across regardless, that a wall would help address?

If so, I said the other day, that it's not like I am against securing those trouble spots- be it with more tech, people, wall, etc. Of those things, I am still mostly against a physical wall because it just sits there and does nothing else- ie people could be used a variety of ways, tech could be moved/updated, etc. I know it sounds silly, but I will admit the symbolism of it is a part of my not liking it too.
Also, my overall gripe is the suggestion that this should be first and foremost step, and especially when it's suggested like SC did that it will fix illegals in the US.

If that's not what you meant, forgive the early morning rant and clarify.

look around you - privacy fences everywhere, businesses with chain link fencing and security by way of barriers, schools have barriers, .... physical barriers have always been used to deter and they work because they're used all over by so many people

the rich? they live in barrier communities ..... barriers to keep out all the people who'd illegally try to get in there, right ? its like that

what other walls/barriers are you against ?

it won't 100% stop it all ... but right now, illegals walk right across the border and come on in unchecked ..... illegally and unacceptable

As usual you are either not reading or not digesting my posts. Also the usual of picking out one line of a long post and incorrectly representing what I am saying.

I said it addresses the gotaways. On top of that is does nothing else, as in doesn't addresses the myriad of other issues with the border and immigration. And it's a small % of the issue.

What I propose above addresses some of your concerns, admitted nor as effectively AND addresses speed of processing, back cases, finding current illegals, etc. Your concrete wall doesn't.

We will disagree that it’s a small percentage. Anyway let’s say we do get 40,000 judges to handle this. It’s only encouraging more to come over as we can process more. There has to be a breaking point, and no one wants to address it.

There is nothing that says we have to let every soul in, so more judges doesn't necessarily mean that.

When I say small %, I mean those are a fraction of the overall encounters at the border. Imo that is not debatable unless you believe that the number of unevountered = millions a year. I have never seen any estimate that high, even the last two years.

When I say it's a small portion of the issue, I think of the border/immigration as a whole which includes: encounters, gotaways, overstayed Visas, drugs, court hearings, etc.
Again, not sure where the disagreement is that is a small %, but I am guessing you are taking a narrower view of it when discussing the issue? If so, cool- we should just keep that in mind.

The problem isn’t people coming in at the border, it’s the ones who are coming in elsewhere.

Like I said, I consider that A problem, not THE problem. That is certainly a core disagreement we have then.

 

[Stealthycat]

The problem isn’t people coming in at the border, it’s the ones who are coming in elsewhere.

we have more than 1.7-2 million coming in other places illegally without any idea who they are ?

DO TELL !! links please

 

[FairWarning]

The problem isn’t people coming in at the border, it’s the ones who are coming in elsewhere.

we have more than 1.7-2 million coming in other places illegally without any idea who they are ?

DO TELL !! links please

I mean at the checkpoints. If you are trying to sneak in, its probably not going to occur at the Tijuana border crossing, its going to be 5 miles east.

 

[The Commish]

Sorry, what last point? The numbers that get across regardless, that a wall would help address?

If so, I said the other day, that it's not like I am against securing those trouble spots- be it with more tech, people, wall, etc. Of those things, I am still mostly against a physical wall because it just sits there and does nothing else- ie people could be used a variety of ways, tech could be moved/updated, etc. I know it sounds silly, but I will admit the symbolism of it is a part of my not liking it too.
Also, my overall gripe is the suggestion that this should be first and foremost step, and especially when it's suggested like SC did that it will fix illegals in the US.

If that's not what you meant, forgive the early morning rant and clarify.

look around you - privacy fences everywhere, businesses with chain link fencing and security by way of barriers, schools have barriers, .... physical barriers have always been used to deter and they work because they're used all over by so many people

the rich? they live in barrier communities ..... barriers to keep out all the people who'd illegally try to get in there, right ? its like that

what other walls/barriers are you against ?

it won't 100% stop it all ... but right now, illegals walk right across the border and come on in unchecked ..... illegally and unacceptable

As usual you are either not reading or not digesting my posts. Also the usual of picking out one line of a long post and incorrectly representing what I am saying.

I said it addresses the gotaways. On top of that is does nothing else, as in doesn't addresses the myriad of other issues with the border and immigration. And it's a small % of the issue.

What I propose above addresses some of your concerns, admitted nor as effectively AND addresses speed of processing, back cases, finding current illegals, etc. Your concrete wall doesn't.

We will disagree that it’s a small percentage. Anyway let’s say we do get 40,000 judges to handle this. It’s only encouraging more to come over as we can process more. There has to be a breaking point, and no one wants to address it.

We don't know this for certain. We can have a system where we plan for the worst and have a process for worst case scenario when we find ourselves in the situation because of particular circumstances outside our control though. There should be ZERO reason we can't handle the volumes we've faced historically or currently. For "day to day" or "day in the life" circumstances, staff accordingly and it makes ramping up for extreme situations that much easier. We do this in technology ALL THE TIME!!!! No reason it can't be done here. "Breaking point" is probably close to the bottom of the list of reasons why people don't want to address it. These people are useful politically to the "sides". THAT is why it's not changing.

 

[parasaurolophus]

Just want to point out that proposing we hire more attorneys, judges, and build more housing is not actually proposing a solution.

 

[Stealthycat]

We don't know this for certain. We can have a system where we plan for the worst and have a process for worst case scenario when we find ourselves in the situation because of particular circumstances outside our control though. There should be ZERO reason we can't handle the volumes we've faced historically or currently. For "day to day" or "day in the life" circumstances, staff accordingly and it makes ramping up for extreme situations that much easier. We do this in technology ALL THE TIME!!!! No reason it can't be done here. "Breaking point" is probably close to the bottom of the list of reasons why people don't want to address it. These people are useful politically to the "sides". THAT is why it's not changing.

what we know is all the money taxpayer are pouring into the judges and lawyers and system right now .......... and we have record numbers of illegals

there should be ZERO need to handle the volume

 

[KarmaPolice]

Just want to point out that proposing we hire more attorneys, judges, and build more housing is not actually proposing a solution.

Sure it is. It's just not one you agree with evidently.

 

[KarmaPolice]

So let's say we give SC his wish- 100ft wall, turrets, barb wire, the whole 9 yards.

Problem solved- no more "illegals" getting in.

Questions:
1. Are you guys satisfied with that, or you want more done?
2. If no- what else do you think should be done?
3. Do you think people desperate enough to try those illegal means are just largely walk away, or are the ports of entry now going to be more overrun?
4. Any negative or unintended consequences we can think of?
5. Do you think stopping drugs should be a primary concern for a 1step solution to the border?

 

[Dickies]

This isnt unique to Biden. Every administration since Ive been alive has failed at the border. Yes....just letting them pile up is just as problematic as letting them in. Address it and move on. Neither of your "sides" wants to though. Pawns are too valuable politically.

Trump was trying to stop it with pushing increased border security, legislation, barriers and talking about it every chance he had....... what has Democrats offered to try and stop it ? they WANT all these illegals ... that's plain and clear

• President Biden cancelled construction of the border wall which decreased illegal entries by 87%.
• The Biden administration is determined to end Title 42 with the knowledge that the southern border will encounter 18,000 migrants per day as soon as it is lifted.
• President Biden will reinstate the Obama-era “catch and release” policy which allows dangerous illegal immigrants to disappear into the United States.

He definitely talked about it...no question...lots of talk. Weird thing is when more staff, new technology at POEs, more lawyers, more judges etc were all proposed in a bill, he rejected them because there was no wall. Actions speak louder than words

And in my view, simply letting people pile up on the Mexico side of the border isn't "stopping" anything...at best it's a delay. Fact remains, the solution to our border is to process these people faster with mor facilities, lawyers and judges. The faster they are processed, the faster they know their fate and the faster their future is determined in this country. But then the pawns are gone and can't be used in these political stunts by the "sides". It's not getting resolved any time soon. At some point, you'll realize that those you are defending and advocating for aren't any better in any meaningful way than those you claim to loathe.

Too many syllables for his supporters to recite.

 

[KarmaPolice]

This isnt unique to Biden. Every administration since Ive been alive has failed at the border. Yes....just letting them pile up is just as problematic as letting them in. Address it and move on. Neither of your "sides" wants to though. Pawns are too valuable politically.

Trump was trying to stop it with pushing increased border security, legislation, barriers and talking about it every chance he had....... what has Democrats offered to try and stop it ? they WANT all these illegals ... that's plain and clear

• President Biden cancelled construction of the border wall which decreased illegal entries by 87%.
• The Biden administration is determined to end Title 42 with the knowledge that the southern border will encounter 18,000 migrants per day as soon as it is lifted.
• President Biden will reinstate the Obama-era “catch and release” policy which allows dangerous illegal immigrants to disappear into the United States.

He definitely talked about it...no question...lots of talk. Weird thing is when more staff, new technology at POEs, more lawyers, more judges etc were all proposed in a bill, he rejected them because there was no wall. Actions speak louder than words

And in my view, simply letting people pile up on the Mexico side of the border isn't "stopping" anything...at best it's a delay. Fact remains, the solution to our border is to process these people faster with mor facilities, lawyers and judges. The faster they are processed, the faster they know their fate and the faster their future is determined in this country. But then the pawns are gone and can't be used in these political stunts by the "sides". It's not getting resolved any time soon. At some point, you'll realize that those you are defending and advocating for aren't any better in any meaningful way than those you claim to loathe.

Too many syllables for his supporters to recite.

We don't need to go here, man.

 

[sho nuff]

You think privacy fences in a residence are really there for security?
They are there for "privacy"...to sit in your backyard/patio and not have people looking at you...to keep your dog in without being on a leash. They are not at all effective as far as security...similar to most border walls.

they absolutely give added levels of security - I guess you think businesses don't get security from their fences/barriers either ?

google is your friend

Privacy Fence: How It Offers Both Comfort and Security

You want to create the perfect space in your backyard for your friends and family to enjoy all throughout the year. You want to host barbecues, potlucks or even simply relax outside after a long day at work. All these things can be accomplished with a well maintained backyard that has a privacy...

www.lahabrafence.com

Preventing Thefts and Trespassing​

With a privacy fence installed, thefts and trespassing incidents can be prevented. Your property will be secured and a stranger is less likely to trespass your property line if it is surrounded by a privacy fence.

Can Fencing Reduce Your Homeowners Insurance Cost? | L&C Fence and Gate

Homeowners insurance protects you financially if your property is damaged or someone has an accident while visiting you. Raising your deductible, installin

www.lcfencegate.com

A fence might reduce your homeowners insurance premium, too.
Reduce Vandalism and Burglary Risk

Build a sturdy fence around your property, and vandals or burglars are less likely to enter your home. Your insurance costs could go down because of this security measure.

​

Almost every privacy fence has a gate that you can easily open and walk through. Arguing they are for security is really really odd. They provide areas to actually hide from the view of neighbors who could report someone walking around. Obviously a place selling fences is going to claim they provide security. And you can secure them...they are also pretty easy to get over and around...this is a really odd way to promote a border wall...

 

[The Commish]

We don't know this for certain. We can have a system where we plan for the worst and have a process for worst case scenario when we find ourselves in the situation because of particular circumstances outside our control though. There should be ZERO reason we can't handle the volumes we've faced historically or currently. For "day to day" or "day in the life" circumstances, staff accordingly and it makes ramping up for extreme situations that much easier. We do this in technology ALL THE TIME!!!! No reason it can't be done here. "Breaking point" is probably close to the bottom of the list of reasons why people don't want to address it. These people are useful politically to the "sides". THAT is why it's not changing.

what we know is all the money taxpayer are pouring into the judges and lawyers and system right now .......... and we have record numbers of illegals

there should be ZERO need to handle the volume

Now, we finally agree on something. There should be ZERO need to handle the volume, because the volume shouldn't be there because we should have funded and resourced the laws we wrote in the first place. But both parties have been completely negligent in funding this and they've created this mess.

 

[KarmaPolice]

I swear, SC must work either in the fecing or walls business or for the prison industrial complex in some manner.

 

[KarmaPolice]

Also, when I think about a wall I think about the pod and article I read that talked about how there was a rise in illegals in the country after we started "cracking down" on the problem. They started bringing family instead of going back home was one reason suggested.

Their models and info pointed to there being less illegals here now if we wouldn't implemented those measures. I thought it was interesting, have said it before, and is usually met with crickets. That's why I asked the above question about unintended consequences.

 

[Stealthycat]

Now, we finally agree on something. There should be ZERO need to handle the volume, because the volume shouldn't be there because we should have funded and resourced the laws we wrote in the first place. But both parties have been completely negligent in funding this and they've created this mess.

I agree, we HAVE to stop the volume

allowing millions across is not stopping the volume, and Democrat policies have increased the volume

you're arguing that those 1.5-1 million illegally here people just need their day in court - that is absolutely ignoring that they're here, the volume

me? I'm saying stop them at the border and only come in legally - which is actually addressing the volume

 

[Stealthycat]

So let's say we give SC his wish- 100ft wall, turrets, barb wire, the whole 9 yards.

Problem solved- no more "illegals" getting in.

Questions:
1. Are you guys satisfied with that, or you want more done?
2. If no- what else do you think should be done?
3. Do you think people desperate enough to try those illegal means are just largely walk away, or are the ports of entry now going to be more overrun?
4. Any negative or unintended consequences we can think of?
5. Do you think stopping drugs should be a primary concern for a 1step solution to the border?

I've already said dozens of times increase who would allow legally into the USA by 2X or even 3X through a system of legal immigration where maybe you apply, you're background checked and vetted and then you get a path to citizenship. Legally

on 3 ....... see, those are all the people we have to stop. Yes, there will still be some but we need a system that deals with illegally here people fast and harsh enough to deter it. Open border that Democrats have led us to right now is an absolute failure

on 5 I think its as important as the sex/human trafficking and child abuse .... if you're had a close family member die from drugs, it hits harder

 

[The Commish]

Now, we finally agree on something. There should be ZERO need to handle the volume, because the volume shouldn't be there because we should have funded and resourced the laws we wrote in the first place. But both parties have been completely negligent in funding this and they've created this mess.

I agree, we HAVE to stop the volume

allowing millions across is not stopping the volume, and Democrat policies have increased the volume

you're arguing that those 1.5-1 million illegally here people just need their day in court - that is absolutely ignoring that they're here, the volume

me? I'm saying stop them at the border and only come in legally - which is actually addressing the volume

Wh3ay studies do you have at tour disposal that say the quantity of people in this country is a problem? Ive never heard that argument before...especially in the day and age where the US is plateauing in quantity.

 

[KarmaPolice]

Only come in legally- as in show up, claim amnesty and get a court date?

 

[Stealthycat]

Wh3ay studies do you have at tour disposal that say the quantity of people in this country is a problem? Ive never heard that argument before...especially in the day and age where the US is plateauing in quantity.

well people have said there is a population problem. Not me, but its been said.

lets say 2 million come here every year illegally ......... do you think they're wealthy? what % you think get good paying jobs? realistically we're adding millions over a few years period to the numbers of poor people in the USA and they're illegal, its not like they're going to pursue the American dream. No, they'll be shackled to low paying jobs under the radar of US Labor laws, exploited by their employers (those who work)

you think that's a good solid plan ?

but aside from that, they are illegally here

illegal - meaning they're not supposed to be here and it impacts US citizens in many many ways. It probably doesn't impact you any because you don't have to deal with them, am I right ?

 

[Stealthycat]

Only come in legally- as in show up, claim amnesty and get a court date?

you are right, we need to do away with the amnesty laws that we have ... they're being exploited by Democrats and we need to revamp them now

how many millions coming here requesting that would it take before you recognized and admitted it was a problem? 10 million ? 40 million ?

 

[The Commish]

Wh3ay studies do you have at tour disposal that say the quantity of people in this country is a problem? Ive never heard that argument before...especially in the day and age where the US is plateauing in quantity.

well people have said there is a population problem. Not me, but its been said.

lets say 2 million come here every year illegally ......... do you think they're wealthy? what % you think get good paying jobs? realistically we're adding millions over a few years period to the numbers of poor people in the USA and they're illegal, its not like they're going to pursue the American dream. No, they'll be shackled to low paying jobs under the radar of US Labor laws, exploited by their employers (those who work)

you think that's a good solid plan ?

but aside from that, they are illegally here

illegal - meaning they're not supposed to be here and it impacts US citizens in many many ways. It probably doesn't impact you any because you don't have to deal with them, am I right ?

Not even close. I live in Florida. You take away the 40-50K "illegals" living here and the AG industry crumbles, so yes, they impact me in a significant way.

To the rest, I'll just categorize it as a "feeling" kind of position you have with no real data or meaningful study to back it up....thanks.

 

[KarmaPolice]

Only come in legally- as in show up, claim amnesty and get a court date?

you are right, we need to do away with the amnesty laws that we have ... they're being exploited by Democrats and we need to revamp them now

how many millions coming here requesting that would it take before you recognized and admitted it was a problem? 10 million ? 40 million ?

Maybe actually read my posts, chief?

 

[Stealthycat]

Not even close. I live in Florida. You take away the 40-50K "illegals" living here and the AG industry crumbles, so yes, they impact me in a significant way.

To the rest, I'll just categorize it as a "feeling" kind of position you have with no real data or meaningful study to back it up....thanks.

how often have them camped in your backyard? left trash all over your property? trespassed over and over? does the drug trade affect you any? human trafficking? do the illegals and the language problems impact your schools and if so how?

but I bet you don't have a barrier around your neighborhood, no fence around your back yard, none of that because they don't work according to some people right?

I've put in links and numbers and I've done it over and over and over ..... that's one thing nobody can say about me, I DO provide the information to back the beliefs/views I have



I wish the crap countries these people pour in from would get their governments overthrown and take out the crime lords, the military dictators, the drug cartels etc etc .... but you got to stay and fight for your homeland to get that done so ... I dunno ....

 

[Stealthycat]

Maybe actually read my posts, chief?

I did

you seem to think all these millions come here, and seek out our judicial system in earnest so they can have validated their claims of being political refugee's (they're almost all NOT)

if that's the case ... why even HAVE border control ? just let millions and millions come in right ? I mean lets just stop all border control, and let them flood in by the 10's of millions right ?

you don't have limits? if you do, what are they ? I understand you don't want to talk about specifics .... kind of a gotcha isn't it ?

 

[KarmaPolice]

Maybe actually read my posts, chief?

I did

you seem to think all these millions come here, and seek out our judicial system in earnest so they can have validated their claims of being political refugee's (they're almost all NOT)

if that's the case ... why even HAVE border control ? just let millions and millions come in right ? I mean lets just stop all border control, and let them flood in by the 10's of millions right ?

you don't have limits? if you do, what are they ? I understand you don't want to talk about specifics .... kind of a gotcha isn't it ?

Maybe read closer?

Pretty sure there is a post or two where I talk about how easy the system is to exploit now. I also have never said let them all in, and today I'm pretty sure there is a post where I said we should have reasonable and honest expectations of the number we let in.

No, I don't have specific number in mind, sorry. I think we can "handle" more than you want, because they are a big driver of the economy for us.

 

[KarmaPolice]

Not even close. I live in Florida. You take away the 40-50K "illegals" living here and the AG industry crumbles, so yes, they impact me in a significant way.

To the rest, I'll just categorize it as a "feeling" kind of position you have with no real data or meaningful study to back it up....thanks.

how often have them camped in your backyard? left trash all over your property? trespassed over and over? does the drug trade affect you any? human trafficking? do the illegals and the language problems impact your schools and if so how?

but I bet you don't have a barrier around your neighborhood, no fence around your back yard, none of that because they don't work according to some people right?

I've put in links and numbers and I've done it over and over and over ..... that's one thing nobody can say about me, I DO provide the information to back the beliefs/views I have



I wish the crap countries these people pour in from would get their governments overthrown and take out the crime lords, the military dictators, the drug cartels etc etc .... but you got to stay and fight for your homeland to get that done so ... I dunno ....

Lol. On fire today, SC.

 

[The Commish]

Not even close. I live in Florida. You take away the 40-50K "illegals" living here and the AG industry crumbles, so yes, they impact me in a significant way.

To the rest, I'll just categorize it as a "feeling" kind of position you have with no real data or meaningful study to back it up....thanks.

how often have them camped in your backyard? left trash all over your property? trespassed over and over? does the drug trade affect you any? human trafficking? do the illegals and the language problems impact your schools and if so how?

but I bet you don't have a barrier around your neighborhood, no fence around your back yard, none of that because they don't work according to some people right?

I've put in links and numbers and I've done it over and over and over ..... that's one thing nobody can say about me, I DO provide the information to back the beliefs/views I have



I wish the crap countries these people pour in from would get their governments overthrown and take out the crime lords, the military dictators, the drug cartels etc etc .... but you got to stay and fight for your homeland to get that done so ... I dunno ....

I haven't had any of these alleged problems. Nor has my BIL who works with them daily. I don't have a fence around my yard and I don't have a gate to my neighborhood. Like I said before, we have roughly 40-50K of them here and the state and our own GOVERNOR doesn't seem to think they are a problem or he'd be using his millions allocated to "fighting illegals" to get them removed from the state instead of pulling stunts and sending people from Texas to Martha's Vineyard

Ironically enough though, I DO have this problem with my MAGA neighbor regarding the bold As much as it's an actual "problem"....I really don't care.

 

[KarmaPolice]

Not even close. I live in Florida. You take away the 40-50K "illegals" living here and the AG industry crumbles, so yes, they impact me in a significant way.

To the rest, I'll just categorize it as a "feeling" kind of position you have with no real data or meaningful study to back it up....thanks.

how often have them camped in your backyard? left trash all over your property? trespassed over and over? does the drug trade affect you any? human trafficking? do the illegals and the language problems impact your schools and if so how?

but I bet you don't have a barrier around your neighborhood, no fence around your back yard, none of that because they don't work according to some people right?

I've put in links and numbers and I've done it over and over and over ..... that's one thing nobody can say about me, I DO provide the information to back the beliefs/views I have



I wish the crap countries these people pour in from would get their governments overthrown and take out the crime lords, the military dictators, the drug cartels etc etc .... but you got to stay and fight for your homeland to get that done so ... I dunno ....

I haven't had any of these alleged problems. Nor has my BIL who works with them daily. I don't have a fence around my yard and I don't have a gate to my neighborhood. Like I said before, we have roughly 40-50K of them here and the state and our own GOVERNOR doesn't seem to think they are a problem or he'd be using his millions allocated to "fighting illegals" to get them removed from the state instead of pulling stunts and sending people from Texas to Martha's Vineyard

Ironically enough though, I DO have this problem with my MAGA neighbor regarding the bold As much as it's an actual "problem"....I really don't care.

But, but, the GOP can't do anything about that! (For reasons - which I am sure is the dems fault, not that that really don't want it).

 

[KarmaPolice]

Wh3ay studies do you have at tour disposal that say the quantity of people in this country is a problem? Ive never heard that argument before...especially in the day and age where the US is plateauing in quantity.

well people have said there is a population problem. Not me, but its been said.

lets say 2 million come here every year illegally ......... do you think they're wealthy? what % you think get good paying jobs? realistically we're adding millions over a few years period to the numbers of poor people in the USA and they're illegal, its not like they're going to pursue the American dream. No, they'll be shackled to low paying jobs under the radar of US Labor laws, exploited by their employers (those who work)

you think that's a good solid plan ?

but aside from that, they are illegally here

illegal - meaning they're not supposed to be here and it impacts US citizens in many many ways. It probably doesn't impact you any because you don't have to deal with them, am I right ?

Not even close. I live in Florida. You take away the 40-50K "illegals" living here and the AG industry crumbles, so yes, they impact me in a significant way.

To the rest, I'll just categorize it as a "feeling" kind of position you have with no real data or meaningful study to back it up....thanks.

What would the ramifications be for FL and the US if desantis walled off the state and tossed out the illegals?

 

[KarmaPolice]

Is it a safe assumption that those illegals working for big AG aren't making minimum wage?