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KC offered ATL a 5th rounder for Tony G...... (1 Viewer)

Stinkin Ref

IBL Representative
Gonzo had changed his tune on not being open to a trade and was willing to go.....ATL must t hink they can salvage the season, cause they are losing him to retirement and they could have at least got something for him....

seems like this made a ton of sense for all three parties....

 

Bhdevault

Footballguy
I'm a huge Falcons fan.

My now 9 year old is a huge fan as well. We live in Ohio and planned a trip (preseason) to Atlanta for 3 days, check out the town and catch the Falcons/Seattle game.

My son was devastated when his two favorite players were put on IR, Spoon (may be back, but not for our game) and Julio. I told him the only saving grace is he can see Gonzalez, a first ballot hall of famer, in person. It stinks as well that we had HUGE expectations going into the year when we bought the tickets, thinking this was a preview of a playoff game.

The reason I told you all that? I too would have liked to see Atlanta trade him to K.C. for the remainder of the season. Not so much to get the draft pick, but to see Tony have at least one more legit shot at a Super Bowl ring. He deserves it.

 

Koya

Footballguy
5th rounder when you still want to hope for the playoffs and at the least, remain competitive and keep the fantasy interested wot cut it.

4th and maybe you are talking. A 3rd would be very hard to say no, to.

 

cstu

Footballguy
Atlanta is going nowhere this year. A 5th rounder for a guy retiring at the end of the year is a gift.
It's not a gift if you still want to put a good product on the field. The chances of a late 5th from the Chiefs making any impact is very low.

 

msudaisy26

Footballguy
No wonder Atlanta hates their sports teams, KC was giving you a gift and they said nope we think we are making the playoffs at 6 - 10

 

KCitons

Footballguy
I'm a huge Falcons fan.

My now 9 year old is a huge fan as well. We live in Ohio and planned a trip (preseason) to Atlanta for 3 days, check out the town and catch the Falcons/Seattle game.

My son was devastated when his two favorite players were put on IR, Spoon (may be back, but not for our game) and Julio. I told him the only saving grace is he can see Gonzalez, a first ballot hall of famer, in person. It stinks as well that we had HUGE expectations going into the year when we bought the tickets, thinking this was a preview of a playoff game.

The reason I told you all that? I too would have liked to see Atlanta trade him to K.C. for the remainder of the season. Not so much to get the draft pick, but to see Tony have at least one more legit shot at a Super Bowl ring. He deserves it.
I agree with what people are saying about the pick and the Falcons season being nearly over.

I don't agree with the statement that the Chiefs are a legit Super Bowl team.

 

Second Sight

Footballguy
Atlanta is going nowhere this year. A 5th rounder for a guy retiring at the end of the year is a gift.
It's not a gift if you still want to put a good product on the field. The chances of a late 5th from the Chiefs making any impact is very low.
When you look at it realistically, it was a gift; to Gonzalez because this is his last year playing and he has a legitimate chance to make the playoffs on the team he is most identified with and never got the opportunity to make the playoffs with the Chiefs and to the Falcons because they are not making the playoffs and the draft pick is worth more than Gonzalez is to the franchise and to the fans long-term.

Would it take any wind left in the sails out of the Atlanta fan base this year? Absolutely, it would. But every team has set backs and reality that does not match the expecations. Long-term, that 5th round pick could have been anything from nothing to a hall of famer and that, as broad a range as it is, is still worth much more than knowing that in eight weeks, Gonzalez is worth nothing forever.§

 

steveski

Footballguy
Atlanta is going nowhere this year. A 5th rounder for a guy retiring at the end of the year is a gift.
It's not a gift if you still want to put a good product on the field. The chances of a late 5th from the Chiefs making any impact is very low.
But there's no chance the Chiefs give up more than that for a 10 game rental. I would have taken it if I was the Falcons. If this was offered and Falcons turned it down, Gonzo is going to be upset and not give it his all anyways. He knows he has no chance of getting a ring now and why would he risk injuring himself when he's basically retired now anyways.

Only reason they said no is to not lose the fans. Gonzo was gone as soon as this trade was offered, whether they accepted or not.

 
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ldizzle

Footballguy
What a slap in the face to Gonzalez. He came back to try and win a ring. Atl sold him on that. Now there is likely no chance they even sniff the playoffs and they cant let him go do what his goal was this year? And they even get something in return. Total slap in the face

 

Stinkin Ref

IBL Representative
Atlanta is going nowhere this year. A 5th rounder for a guy retiring at the end of the year is a gift.
It's not a gift if you still want to put a good product on the field. The chances of a late 5th from the Chiefs making any impact is very low.
any other player and I might agree about the product on the field thing.....but they begged this guy out of retirement......and disagree about a 5th rounder making an impact....

 

Stinkin Ref

IBL Representative
personally I don't think they lose the fan base if they trade him....true fans would see the writing on the wall and realize this would have been a good move for their team......the true fans should be pissed they didn't pull the trigger.....

 

FF Wiseguy

Footballguy
personally I don't think they lose the fan base if they trade him....true fans would see the writing on the wall and realize this would have been a good move for their team......the true fans should be pissed they didn't pull the trigger.....
Also, the true fans probably respect Gonzalez immensely, and would root for him to get one last shot at a ring.

Gonzalez was saying all the right things during the trade rumors, but I hate to see his last season go to waste, getting double and triple teamed for a team going nowhere. Don't think he dogs the rest of the season, don't think it's in his blood.

Would have been such a story, no matter how KC's season pans out. All-time great gets one last chance with his old team.

 

Ministry of Pain

Footballguy
I think KC should have put at least a 4th on the table...most guys drafted after the 3rd round are an absolute crap shoot, 5ths are almost like nothing, I think Atlanta was smart to hold their ground. Maybe Atlanta is not going to make the playoffs but they have been successful since Mike Smith got there outside of the playoffs, the team has a winning attitude, no reason to gift wrap anything to Kansas City.

KC can't seem to get Bowe moving in the passing game, why would Gonzo be that much different? There were other TEs they could have made a move for if they really felt they needed some more punch there. Lots of guys in the league IMO underutilized by their coaches.

Would have been happy for Gonzo but understand and applaud Atlanta for standing their ground.

 

Interseptopus

Footballguy
I think KC should have put at least a 4th on the table...most guys drafted after the 3rd round are an absolute crap shoot, 5ths are almost like nothing, I think Atlanta was smart to hold their ground. Maybe Atlanta is not going to make the playoffs but they have been successful since Mike Smith got there outside of the playoffs, the team has a winning attitude, no reason to gift wrap anything to Kansas City.

KC can't seem to get Bowe moving in the passing game, why would Gonzo be that much different? There were other TEs they could have made a move for if they really felt they needed some more punch there. Lots of guys in the league IMO underutilized by their coaches.

Would have been happy for Gonzo but understand and applaud Atlanta for standing their ground.
That's a completely ridiculous statement.

You realize how many starters in the nfl are selected in the fourth or later rounds?

Sure, superstars are hard to come by after the third round, but it does happen.

Thing is, Atlanta could find a quality startable player in the 5th round. Specifically on the DL or OL

 

psychobillies

Footballguy
personally I don't think they lose the fan base if they trade him....true fans would see the writing on the wall and realize this would have been a good move for their team......the true fans should be pissed they didn't pull the trigger.....
I think you are right. Besides, these are Atlanta "fans". They probably checked out after week one anyway.

 

dangerman77

Footballguy
I can't wrap my head around the idea that anyone "deserves" a shot at a championship, and should be granted a short-cut to a contender just because.

 

jmo87usc

Footballguy
If Atlanta wins out, which is highly unlikely, they would be 11-5. That's usually good for the playoffs. You keep trying at least until you are mathematically eliminated. If they lose Gonzo they have no chance. Tough decision I'm sure, but they made the right one.

 

SaintsInDome2006

Footballguy
I really dislike the Falcs, putting it mildly there and most Saints fans share that sentiment I'd say.

And I'm generally pulling for the Chiefs this year, from a distance.

I would have loved to see Gonz gone when the Saints play them next and would love to see the Chiefs bolster their offense in a much needed way.

On a sentimental level hey as long as it's not for ATL it would be great to see Gonz go far and who better than his old team who he will go into the HOF for.

From a Falcs & FF POV the fans and owners should have been pulling to see the rook Tolliolo (sp?) get in there and see what he could do.

All in all lose lose lose.

 

Interseptopus

Footballguy
Not to be "that guy" but has anyone shown a link or a credible source to back this up? I don't see this anywhere on my regular fantasy/nfl news sites. Not that really matters right now since the deadline is passed but no used in faulting the falcons if this trade offer never actually existed

 

massraider

Footballguy
The trade would mean a lot more to KC than ATL.

If Atlanta wants a late 5th, it can slide down in the 3rd round.

I like that Atlanta kept him, but would have understood if they had traded him.

Their season is probably over? Maybe. Maybe not. Roddy gets healthy, SJax gets healthy, who knows? Probably not, but teams have turned it around before.

Halfway through the season, don't tell the rest of your team that you are throwing in the towel, by trading what must be one of the most respected leaders on the team, for a stinking 5th.

Don't trade your franchise QB's security blanket, and increase the chance that he gets injured under a barrage of pass rushers.

The front office and coaching staff, their jobs are on the line, every year. They should give away their 2nd best offensive player, for a late 5th?

They aren't going anywhere? That's a childs argument. It doesn't mean you don't work to get somewhere. Losing is contagious, and so is winning.

If the team goes 6-3 the rest of the way, was it wasted, because they didn't get 'anywhere'? Of course not.

 

Stinkin Ref

IBL Representative
Not to be "that guy" but has anyone shown a link or a credible source to back this up? I don't see this anywhere on my regular fantasy/nfl news sites. Not that really matters right now since the deadline is passed but no used in faulting the falcons if this trade offer never actually existed
bleacher report....

 

massraider

Footballguy
Good for ATL, frankly. They showed pride. I am so eager for KC to collapse.
mind if I ask why.....?
Denver fan I would guess
You don't have to be a hater to look at their schedule and say, well, that's the softest 8-0 ever.

I think they are well coached, and have a top 5 RB, and two great pass rushers. That's good enough. They are for real, but I think it remains to be seen if the are FOR REALZZ.....

 

Stinkin Ref

IBL Representative
The trade would mean a lot more to KC than ATL.

If Atlanta wants a late 5th, it can slide down in the 3rd round.

I like that Atlanta kept him, but would have understood if they had traded him.

Their season is probably over? Maybe. Maybe not. Roddy gets healthy, SJax gets healthy, who knows? Probably not, but teams have turned it around before.

Halfway through the season, don't tell the rest of your team that you are throwing in the towel, by trading what must be one of the most respected leaders on the team, for a stinking 5th.

Don't trade your franchise QB's security blanket, and increase the chance that he gets injured under a barrage of pass rushers.

The front office and coaching staff, their jobs are on the line, every year. They should give away their 2nd best offensive player, for a late 5th?

They aren't going anywhere? That's a childs argument. It doesn't mean you don't work to get somewhere. Losing is contagious, and so is winning.

If the team goes 6-3 the rest of the way, was it wasted, because they didn't get 'anywhere'? Of course not.
thats probably the worse case for ATL right now....that would put them at 8-8 and in all probability on the outside looking in come playoff time.....their only shot, and it's not even a good one, is for the 6th and final spot......they ain't catching NO.....and one of SF or SEA will be one WC spot, leaving just one left.....

not only does 8-8 not get them in.....it gets them a lower draft pick next year......

ATL still has to play SF, SEA, and GB at GB....as well as NO, etc....WAS, an improving CAR.....

I'm all about staying competitive and trying to win.....but getting a 5th for a guy you know is gone and your season is toast seems like a good deal right now....we don't need to list examples of guys that were taken AFTER the 5th round that were major contributors do we....

decision came down to helping your team now or down the road......ATL chose now.....IMO I think it was a bad call....

 

Maurile Tremblay

Administrator
Staff member
I don't agree with the statement that the Chiefs are a legit Super Bowl team.
Any team that makes the playoffs has a legitimate shot at winning the Super Bowl (as the Giants have proved a couple times). The Chiefs are pretty much a shoe-in to make the playoffs this season.

I'm not a Chiefs fan in the slightest, but Gonzalez has always seemed like a good dude, and it'd be pretty cool for him to retire as a Chief (on more than a one-day contract). I wish this deal had happened.

On the other hand, I don't at all begrudge the Falcons for wanting to put the best team on the field this year that they can, and their best team includes Gonzalez.

 
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massraider

Footballguy
The trade would mean a lot more to KC than ATL.

If Atlanta wants a late 5th, it can slide down in the 3rd round.

I like that Atlanta kept him, but would have understood if they had traded him.

Their season is probably over? Maybe. Maybe not. Roddy gets healthy, SJax gets healthy, who knows? Probably not, but teams have turned it around before.

Halfway through the season, don't tell the rest of your team that you are throwing in the towel, by trading what must be one of the most respected leaders on the team, for a stinking 5th.

Don't trade your franchise QB's security blanket, and increase the chance that he gets injured under a barrage of pass rushers.

The front office and coaching staff, their jobs are on the line, every year. They should give away their 2nd best offensive player, for a late 5th?

They aren't going anywhere? That's a childs argument. It doesn't mean you don't work to get somewhere. Losing is contagious, and so is winning.

If the team goes 6-3 the rest of the way, was it wasted, because they didn't get 'anywhere'? Of course not.
thats probably the worse case for ATL right now....that would put them at 8-8 and in all probability on the outside looking in come playoff time.....their only shot, and it's not even a good one, is for the 6th and final spot......they ain't catching NO.....and one of SF or SEA will be one WC spot, leaving just one left.....

not only does 8-8 not get them in.....it gets them a lower draft pick next year......

ATL still has to play SF, SEA, and GB at GB....as well as NO, etc....WAS, an improving CAR.....

I'm all about staying competitive and trying to win.....but getting a 5th for a guy you know is gone and your season is toast seems like a good deal right now....we don't need to list examples of guys that were taken AFTER the 5th round that were major contributors do we....

decision came down to helping your team now or down the road......ATL chose now.....IMO I think it was a bad call....
You are missing my point. If ATL turns around, and plays well the rest of the year, and doesn't make the playoffs, was the winning streak wasted? Was finishing strong wasted?

Should fans root for the team to lose the rest of their games, to get Clowney (or whoever)??

Honestly, any discussion about teams winning games as a negative, because it may affect draft freaking position, is madness.

 

Stinkin Ref

IBL Representative
Good for ATL, frankly. They showed pride. I am so eager for KC to collapse.
mind if I ask why.....?
Denver fan I would guess
You don't have to be a hater to look at their schedule and say, well, that's the softest 8-0 ever.

I think they are well coached, and have a top 5 RB, and two great pass rushers. That's good enough. They are for real, but I think it remains to be seen if the are FOR REALZZ.....
by season end they will have played the same schedule as DEN cept for 2 games....

and I bet if you are honest....going into the season you would have chalked up their DAL, NYG, probably PHI, HOU and probably at TEN all as losses....

 

KCitons

Footballguy
I don't agree with the statement that the Chiefs are a legit Super Bowl team.
Any team that makes the playoffs has a legitimate shot at winning the Super Bowl (as the Giants have proved a couple times). The Chiefs are pretty much a shoe-in to make the playoffs this season.

I'm not a Chiefs fan in the slightest, but Gonzalez has always seemed like a good dude, and it'd be pretty cool for him to retire as a Chief (on more than a one-day contract). I wish this deal had happened.

On the other hand, I don't at all begrudge the Falcons for wanting to put the best team on the field this year that they can, and their best team includes Gonzalez.
Let's put a pin in this until January. KC has 9 more weeks. We've also seen teams go into a tailspin the second half of a season and miss the playoffs. I don't feel confident that the Chiefs would beat the Broncos, Bengals, or Pats in the playoffs, only to match up with SF, NO or Seattle in the Super Bowl.

 

massraider

Footballguy
Good for ATL, frankly. They showed pride. I am so eager for KC to collapse.
mind if I ask why.....?
Denver fan I would guess
You don't have to be a hater to look at their schedule and say, well, that's the softest 8-0 ever.

I think they are well coached, and have a top 5 RB, and two great pass rushers. That's good enough. They are for real, but I think it remains to be seen if the are FOR REALZZ.....
by season end they will have played the same schedule as DEN cept for 2 games....

and I bet if you are honest....going into the season you would have chalked up their DAL, NYG, probably PHI, HOU and probably at TEN all as losses....
Yes, I would have. Well, not TEN.

Does that have anything to do with the price of tea in China? Look, today, the schedule looks soft. If that doesn't, what does a soft one look like?

Basically, I think Alex Smith will be their undoing. I don't think the defense is good enough for a 2000 Ravens-type outcome, and Smith's dink and dunk limitations, even as he plays for a very good coach, will be a problem.

 

Interseptopus

Footballguy
Good for ATL, frankly. They showed pride. I am so eager for KC to collapse.
mind if I ask why.....?
Denver fan I would guess
You don't have to be a hater to look at their schedule and say, well, that's the softest 8-0 ever.I think they are well coached, and have a top 5 RB, and two great pass rushers. That's good enough. They are for real, but I think it remains to be seen if the are FOR REALZZ.....
by season end they will have played the same schedule as DEN cept for 2 games....

and I bet if you are honest....going into the season you would have chalked up their DAL, NYG, probably PHI, HOU and probably at TEN all as losses....
Yes, I would have. Well, not TEN.Does that have anything to do with the price of tea in China? Look, today, the schedule looks soft. If that doesn't, what does a soft one look like?

Basically, I think Alex Smith will be their undoing. I don't think the defense is good enough for a 2000 Ravens-type outcome, and Smith's dink and dunk limitations, even as he plays for a very good coach, will be a problem.
The QB with the highest winning percentage as a starter in the nfl is going to be their undoing?

:lol:

 

Stinkin Ref

IBL Representative
The trade would mean a lot more to KC than ATL.

If Atlanta wants a late 5th, it can slide down in the 3rd round.

I like that Atlanta kept him, but would have understood if they had traded him.

Their season is probably over? Maybe. Maybe not. Roddy gets healthy, SJax gets healthy, who knows? Probably not, but teams have turned it around before.

Halfway through the season, don't tell the rest of your team that you are throwing in the towel, by trading what must be one of the most respected leaders on the team, for a stinking 5th.

Don't trade your franchise QB's security blanket, and increase the chance that he gets injured under a barrage of pass rushers.

The front office and coaching staff, their jobs are on the line, every year. They should give away their 2nd best offensive player, for a late 5th?

They aren't going anywhere? That's a childs argument. It doesn't mean you don't work to get somewhere. Losing is contagious, and so is winning.

If the team goes 6-3 the rest of the way, was it wasted, because they didn't get 'anywhere'? Of course not.
thats probably the worse case for ATL right now....that would put them at 8-8 and in all probability on the outside looking in come playoff time.....their only shot, and it's not even a good one, is for the 6th and final spot......they ain't catching NO.....and one of SF or SEA will be one WC spot, leaving just one left.....

not only does 8-8 not get them in.....it gets them a lower draft pick next year......

ATL still has to play SF, SEA, and GB at GB....as well as NO, etc....WAS, an improving CAR.....

I'm all about staying competitive and trying to win.....but getting a 5th for a guy you know is gone and your season is toast seems like a good deal right now....we don't need to list examples of guys that were taken AFTER the 5th round that were major contributors do we....

decision came down to helping your team now or down the road......ATL chose now.....IMO I think it was a bad call....
You are missing my point. If ATL turns around, and plays well the rest of the year, and doesn't make the playoffs, was the winning streak wasted? Was finishing strong wasted?

Should fans root for the team to lose the rest of their games, to get Clowney (or whoever)??

Honestly, any discussion about teams winning games as a negative, because it may affect draft freaking position, is madness.
ATL probably thinks it would be wasted....it was SB or bust this year.....the whole reason they talked Gonzo into coming back....so yeah on some level it's a waste if your goal is SB, which it should be for every team (but we know it's not realisticly).....if I'm an ATL fan, "finishing strong" only goes so far and while it sounds great in the year end press conference all it really accomplishes is lowering your draft pick.....having a ####ty record while losing White, Julio, Sjax, etc shouldn't cost anybody their job and shouldn't prevent FA's from seeing what ATL will have next year.....

as a KC fan I have been down this road.....it really kinda sucks to finish just outside of the playoffs and see a mid range draft pick staring you in the face while everybody else loads up on the franchise QB's.....then you do go 2-14 only to have NO franchise QB in the draft.....so yeah it's tough for fans to try and figure out do I wanna stay in the moment and win 6 more really meaningless games.....or do I want to go ahead and get another draft pick in a trade, maybe lose a couple because of it, and see our draft pick get better for the following year....

you're naive if you don't think even true fans don't mind seeing their teams lose the last few if it means getting an Andrew Luck....

and you're also naive if you don't think GM's and owners factor in potential future draft position when they make any type of transaction.....

 
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drummer

Footballguy
Good for ATL, frankly. They showed pride. I am so eager for KC to collapse.
mind if I ask why.....?
Denver fan I would guess
You don't have to be a hater to look at their schedule and say, well, that's the softest 8-0 ever.I think they are well coached, and have a top 5 RB, and two great pass rushers. That's good enough. They are for real, but I think it remains to be seen if the are FOR REALZZ.....
by season end they will have played the same schedule as DEN cept for 2 games....

and I bet if you are honest....going into the season you would have chalked up their DAL, NYG, probably PHI, HOU and probably at TEN all as losses....
Yes, I would have. Well, not TEN.Does that have anything to do with the price of tea in China? Look, today, the schedule looks soft. If that doesn't, what does a soft one look like?

Basically, I think Alex Smith will be their undoing. I don't think the defense is good enough for a 2000 Ravens-type outcome, and Smith's dink and dunk limitations, even as he plays for a very good coach, will be a problem.
The QB with the highest winning percentage as a starter in the nfl is going to be their undoing?

:lol:
That's since 2011 on two teams. They lose Lamar Charles, and that offense has to rely on Smith, who then could regress into pre-2011 Smith.

It happened on the 2012 49ers, even with Gore. Thus why he isn't there anymore.

 

Stinkin Ref

IBL Representative
Good for ATL, frankly. They showed pride. I am so eager for KC to collapse.
mind if I ask why.....?
Denver fan I would guess
You don't have to be a hater to look at their schedule and say, well, that's the softest 8-0 ever.I think they are well coached, and have a top 5 RB, and two great pass rushers. That's good enough. They are for real, but I think it remains to be seen if the are FOR REALZZ.....
by season end they will have played the same schedule as DEN cept for 2 games....

and I bet if you are honest....going into the season you would have chalked up their DAL, NYG, probably PHI, HOU and probably at TEN all as losses....
Yes, I would have. Well, not TEN.Does that have anything to do with the price of tea in China? Look, today, the schedule looks soft. If that doesn't, what does a soft one look like?

Basically, I think Alex Smith will be their undoing. I don't think the defense is good enough for a 2000 Ravens-type outcome, and Smith's dink and dunk limitations, even as he plays for a very good coach, will be a problem.
The QB with the highest winning percentage as a starter in the nfl is going to be their undoing?

:lol:
unfortunately he is probably right.....

 

Interseptopus

Footballguy
Good for ATL, frankly. They showed pride. I am so eager for KC to collapse.
mind if I ask why.....?
Denver fan I would guess
You don't have to be a hater to look at their schedule and say, well, that's the softest 8-0 ever.I think they are well coached, and have a top 5 RB, and two great pass rushers. That's good enough. They are for real, but I think it remains to be seen if the are FOR REALZZ.....
by season end they will have played the same schedule as DEN cept for 2 games....

and I bet if you are honest....going into the season you would have chalked up their DAL, NYG, probably PHI, HOU and probably at TEN all as losses....
Yes, I would have. Well, not TEN.Does that have anything to do with the price of tea in China? Look, today, the schedule looks soft. If that doesn't, what does a soft one look like?

Basically, I think Alex Smith will be their undoing. I don't think the defense is good enough for a 2000 Ravens-type outcome, and Smith's dink and dunk limitations, even as he plays for a very good coach, will be a problem.
The QB with the highest winning percentage as a starter in the nfl is going to be their undoing? :lol:
That's since 2011 on two teams. They lose Lamar Charles, and that offense has to rely on Smith, who then could regress into pre-2011 Smith.

It happened on the 2012 49ers, even with Gore. Thus why he isn't there anymore.
That's a ridiculous statement, it's like saying "well if you take out those 3 90 yard runs the rb only averaged 2.0 ypc"So when they had Jamal Charles, and Matt Cassel at QB, by your theory They shouldn't have went 2-14 because Jamal Charles is so good he will make any QB look great

When Drew Brees went from SD to NO he had a career resurgence. If I'm not mistaken Smith is younger than Brees when Brees switched teams

 
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drummer

Footballguy
Good for ATL, frankly. They showed pride. I am so eager for KC to collapse.
mind if I ask why.....?
Denver fan I would guess
You don't have to be a hater to look at their schedule and say, well, that's the softest 8-0 ever.I think they are well coached, and have a top 5 RB, and two great pass rushers. That's good enough. They are for real, but I think it remains to be seen if the are FOR REALZZ.....
by season end they will have played the same schedule as DEN cept for 2 games....

and I bet if you are honest....going into the season you would have chalked up their DAL, NYG, probably PHI, HOU and probably at TEN all as losses....
Yes, I would have. Well, not TEN.Does that have anything to do with the price of tea in China? Look, today, the schedule looks soft. If that doesn't, what does a soft one look like?

Basically, I think Alex Smith will be their undoing. I don't think the defense is good enough for a 2000 Ravens-type outcome, and Smith's dink and dunk limitations, even as he plays for a very good coach, will be a problem.
The QB with the highest winning percentage as a starter in the nfl is going to be their undoing? :lol:
That's since 2011 on two teams. They lose Lamar Charles, and that offense has to rely on Smith, who then could regress into pre-2011 Smith.

It happened on the 2012 49ers, even with Gore. Thus why he isn't there anymore.
That's a ridiculous statement, it's like saying "well if you take out those 3 90 yard runs the rb only averaged 2.0 ypc"So when they had Jamal Charles, and Matt Cassel at QB, by your theory They shouldn't have went 2-14 because Jamal Charles is so good he will make any QB look great
Chase Stuart has an NYT article on this:

On offense, the Chiefs have largely been a one-man show. Jamaal Charles is second in yards from scrimmage behind the Philadelphia Eagles’ LeSean McCoy, and Charles ranks in the top three among running backs in rushing yards, rushing touchdowns, receptions and receiving yards. Charles has accounted for 38.8 percent of the Chiefs’ offensive yards, by far the highest percentage by a player this season.


An outstanding defense and a singular talent on offense have enabled the Chiefs to get by with mediocre play at quarterback. Alex Smith has earned a label as a winner with a 26-5-1 record as a starter since 2011. But this year, his main role has been to throw short, safe passes, and even that has been a challenge.

Smith’s average pass has traveled just 6.23 yards past the line of scrimmage this year, the shortest of any passer. Quarterbacks who throw shorter passes tend to produce high completion percentages. Smith, who frequently checked down with San Francisco, too, completed 70.2 percent of his passes last year with the 49ers, but this season with the Chiefs he has completed only 58 percent.

The Chiefs rank 23rd with just 1.49 points per offensive drive, according to Pro-Football-Reference.com. The Chiefs’ offense has yet to prove that it can keep pace with some of the N.F.L.’s best teams.

Of course, one reason the Chiefs are 7-0 is precisely because Kansas City has not faced the best teams. Chiefs opponents have a 15-33 record; if the seven losses to Kansas City are not counted, those teams still have only a 36.6 winning percentage.

Only one of Kansas City’s victories came against a team with a winning record, and that team, the Dallas Cowboys, has not beaten a team with a winning record this year. No team has had an easier schedule than Kansas City.

But the expectations were never that Kansas City would go from having the No. 1 pick in the draft to winning the Lombardi Trophy. That the Chiefs remain the lone unbeaten team is a testament to the remarkable turnaround led by Coach Andy Reid.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/23/sports/football/many-reasons-for-chiefs-success-but-passing-isnt-one-of-them.html?ref=football&_r=0

 

karmarooster

Footballguy
The trade would mean a lot more to KC than ATL.

If Atlanta wants a late 5th, it can slide down in the 3rd round.

I like that Atlanta kept him, but would have understood if they had traded him.

Their season is probably over? Maybe. Maybe not. Roddy gets healthy, SJax gets healthy, who knows? Probably not, but teams have turned it around before.

Halfway through the season, don't tell the rest of your team that you are throwing in the towel, by trading what must be one of the most respected leaders on the team, for a stinking 5th.

Don't trade your franchise QB's security blanket, and increase the chance that he gets injured under a barrage of pass rushers.

The front office and coaching staff, their jobs are on the line, every year. They should give away their 2nd best offensive player, for a late 5th?

They aren't going anywhere? That's a childs argument. It doesn't mean you don't work to get somewhere. Losing is contagious, and so is winning.

If the team goes 6-3 the rest of the way, was it wasted, because they didn't get 'anywhere'? Of course not.
Of course it's wasted... the team actually HURTS itself by winning a game or two or three more than they would've WITHOUT Gonzo, because it negatively affects their draft slot in every round of the draft.

 

FUBAR

Footballguy
The trade would mean a lot more to KC than ATL.

If Atlanta wants a late 5th, it can slide down in the 3rd round.

I like that Atlanta kept him, but would have understood if they had traded him.

Their season is probably over? Maybe. Maybe not. Roddy gets healthy, SJax gets healthy, who knows? Probably not, but teams have turned it around before.

Halfway through the season, don't tell the rest of your team that you are throwing in the towel, by trading what must be one of the most respected leaders on the team, for a stinking 5th.

Don't trade your franchise QB's security blanket, and increase the chance that he gets injured under a barrage of pass rushers.

The front office and coaching staff, their jobs are on the line, every year. They should give away their 2nd best offensive player, for a late 5th?

They aren't going anywhere? That's a childs argument. It doesn't mean you don't work to get somewhere. Losing is contagious, and so is winning.

If the team goes 6-3 the rest of the way, was it wasted, because they didn't get 'anywhere'? Of course not.
Of course it's wasted... the team actually HURTS itself by winning a game or two or three more than they would've WITHOUT Gonzo, because it negatively affects their draft slot in every round of the draft.
Moving back a few slots in the draft rarely makes a difference long term unless you lose out on a franchise QB. Which Atlanta doesn't need.

 

Interseptopus

Footballguy
Good for ATL, frankly. They showed pride. I am so eager for KC to collapse.
mind if I ask why.....?
Denver fan I would guess
You don't have to be a hater to look at their schedule and say, well, that's the softest 8-0 ever.

I think they are well coached, and have a top 5 RB, and two great pass rushers. That's good enough. They are for real, but I think it remains to be seen if the are FOR REALZZ.....
by season end they will have played the same schedule as DEN cept for 2 games....

and I bet if you are honest....going into the season you would have chalked up their DAL, NYG, probably PHI, HOU and probably at TEN all as losses....
Yes, I would have. Well, not TEN.

Does that have anything to do with the price of tea in China? Look, today, the schedule looks soft. If that doesn't, what does a soft one look like?

Basically, I think Alex Smith will be their undoing. I don't think the defense is good enough for a 2000 Ravens-type outcome, and Smith's dink and dunk limitations, even as he plays for a very good coach, will be a problem.
The QB with the highest winning percentage as a starter in the nfl is going to be their undoing? :lol:
That's since 2011 on two teams. They lose Lamar Charles, and that offense has to rely on Smith, who then could regress into pre-2011 Smith.

It happened on the 2012 49ers, even with Gore. Thus why he isn't there anymore.
That's a ridiculous statement, it's like saying "well if you take out those 3 90 yard runs the rb only averaged 2.0 ypc"

So when they had Jamal Charles, and Matt Cassel at QB, by your theory They shouldn't have went 2-14 because Jamal Charles is so good he will make any QB look great
Chase Stuart has an NYT article on this:

On offense, the Chiefs have largely been a one-man show. Jamaal Charles is second in yards from scrimmage behind the Philadelphia Eagles’ LeSean McCoy, and Charles ranks in the top three among running backs in rushing yards, rushing touchdowns, receptions and receiving yards. Charles has accounted for 38.8 percent of the Chiefs’ offensive yards, by far the highest percentage by a player this season.

An outstanding defense and a singular talent on offense have enabled the Chiefs to get by with mediocre play at quarterback. Alex Smith has earned a label as a winner with a 26-5-1 record as a starter since 2011. But this year, his main role has been to throw short, safe passes, and even that has been a challenge.

Smith’s average pass has traveled just 6.23 yards past the line of scrimmage this year, the shortest of any passer. Quarterbacks who throw shorter passes tend to produce high completion percentages. Smith, who frequently checked down with San Francisco, too, completed 70.2 percent of his passes last year with the 49ers, but this season with the Chiefs he has completed only 58 percent.

The Chiefs rank 23rd with just 1.49 points per offensive drive, according to Pro-Football-Reference.com. The Chiefs’ offense has yet to prove that it can keep pace with some of the N.F.L.’s best teams.

Of course, one reason the Chiefs are 7-0 is precisely because Kansas City has not faced the best teams. Chiefs opponents have a 15-33 record; if the seven losses to Kansas City are not counted, those teams still have only a 36.6 winning percentage.

Only one of Kansas City’s victories came against a team with a winning record, and that team, the Dallas Cowboys, has not beaten a team with a winning record this year. No team has had an easier schedule than Kansas City.

But the expectations were never that Kansas City would go from having the No. 1 pick in the draft to winning the Lombardi Trophy. That the Chiefs remain the lone unbeaten team is a testament to the remarkable turnaround led by Coach Andy Reid.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/23/sports/football/many-reasons-for-chiefs-success-but-passing-isnt-one-of-them.html?ref=football&_r=0
That's great, but to me that looks like a hate fest on the chiefs. He must have lost some money on them or something.

We've seen teams with QBs who can manage a game win superbowls.

Joe Flacco

Trent Dilfer

Heck even Eli Manning could fall into that category

All 3 relied on a rushing attack and defense.

So the question for me is, does kc have a good enough defense to rely on? Hard to tell with the way their schedule has played out- not what people thought 2 months ago

 

Adam Harstad

Moderator
Atlanta is going nowhere this year. A 5th rounder for a guy retiring at the end of the year is a gift.
It's not a gift if you still want to put a good product on the field. The chances of a late 5th from the Chiefs making any impact is very low.
When you look at it realistically, it was a gift; to Gonzalez because this is his last year playing and he has a legitimate chance to make the playoffs on the team he is most identified with and never got the opportunity to make the playoffs with the Chiefs and to the Falcons because they are not making the playoffs and the draft pick is worth more than Gonzalez is to the franchise and to the fans long-term.

Would it take any wind left in the sails out of the Atlanta fan base this year? Absolutely, it would. But every team has set backs and reality that does not match the expecations. Long-term, that 5th round pick could have been anything from nothing to a hall of famer and that, as broad a range as it is, is still worth much more than knowing that in eight weeks, Gonzalez is worth nothing forever.§
Tony Gonzalez made the playoffs three times with the Chiefs, including the 2003 season where Kansas City opened 9-0, finished 13-3, and earned the #1 seed in the AFC.

 

Adam Harstad

Moderator
The QB with the highest winning percentage as a starter in the nfl is going to be their undoing? :lol:
Huh? Winning percentage as a starter:

Alex Smith - 56%

Peyton Manning - 69%

Tom Brady - 76%

Hell, Alex Smith isn't even Tony Romo (58%).

ETA:

Tim Tebow - 57%

Vince Young - 62%

 
Last edited by a moderator:

massraider

Footballguy
The trade would mean a lot more to KC than ATL.

If Atlanta wants a late 5th, it can slide down in the 3rd round.

I like that Atlanta kept him, but would have understood if they had traded him.

Their season is probably over? Maybe. Maybe not. Roddy gets healthy, SJax gets healthy, who knows? Probably not, but teams have turned it around before.

Halfway through the season, don't tell the rest of your team that you are throwing in the towel, by trading what must be one of the most respected leaders on the team, for a stinking 5th.

Don't trade your franchise QB's security blanket, and increase the chance that he gets injured under a barrage of pass rushers.

The front office and coaching staff, their jobs are on the line, every year. They should give away their 2nd best offensive player, for a late 5th?

They aren't going anywhere? That's a childs argument. It doesn't mean you don't work to get somewhere. Losing is contagious, and so is winning.

If the team goes 6-3 the rest of the way, was it wasted, because they didn't get 'anywhere'? Of course not.
Of course it's wasted... the team actually HURTS itself by winning a game or two or three more than they would've WITHOUT Gonzo, because it negatively affects their draft slot in every round of the draft.
In almost every case, I disagree with this line of thinking. Now, if the Jags win a meaningless couple of games, and miss out on Teddy B (assuming he is a franchise QB), yeah, I think Jags fans should be rooting for 1-15 or 0-16.

But for the most part, teams should always be trying to win as many as possible.

Draft position? Seems to me that it's better to have a smart front office than a good draft position.

4-12 isn't better than 8-8 because they get a better draft pick.

 

Interseptopus

Footballguy
The trade would mean a lot more to KC than ATL.

If Atlanta wants a late 5th, it can slide down in the 3rd round.

I like that Atlanta kept him, but would have understood if they had traded him.

Their season is probably over? Maybe. Maybe not. Roddy gets healthy, SJax gets healthy, who knows? Probably not, but teams have turned it around before.

Halfway through the season, don't tell the rest of your team that you are throwing in the towel, by trading what must be one of the most respected leaders on the team, for a stinking 5th.

Don't trade your franchise QB's security blanket, and increase the chance that he gets injured under a barrage of pass rushers.

The front office and coaching staff, their jobs are on the line, every year. They should give away their 2nd best offensive player, for a late 5th?

They aren't going anywhere? That's a childs argument. It doesn't mean you don't work to get somewhere. Losing is contagious, and so is winning.

If the team goes 6-3 the rest of the way, was it wasted, because they didn't get 'anywhere'? Of course not.
Of course it's wasted... the team actually HURTS itself by winning a game or two or three more than they would've WITHOUT Gonzo, because it negatively affects their draft slot in every round of the draft.
Moving back a few slots in the draft rarely makes a difference long term unless you lose out on a franchise QB. Which Atlanta doesn't need.
I disagree

http://www.mynfldraft.com/points.php

 

Interseptopus

Footballguy
Good for ATL, frankly. They showed pride. I am so eager for KC to collapse.
mind if I ask why.....?
Denver fan I would guess
You don't have to be a hater to look at their schedule and say, well, that's the softest 8-0 ever.I think they are well coached, and have a top 5 RB, and two great pass rushers. That's good enough. They are for real, but I think it remains to be seen if the are FOR REALZZ.....
by season end they will have played the same schedule as DEN cept for 2 games....

and I bet if you are honest....going into the season you would have chalked up their DAL, NYG, probably PHI, HOU and probably at TEN all as losses....
Yes, I would have. Well, not TEN.Does that have anything to do with the price of tea in China? Look, today, the schedule looks soft. If that doesn't, what does a soft one look like?

Basically, I think Alex Smith will be their undoing. I don't think the defense is good enough for a 2000 Ravens-type outcome, and Smith's dink and dunk limitations, even as he plays for a very good coach, will be a problem.
The QB with the highest winning percentage as a starter in the nfl is going to be their undoing?

:lol:
Huh? Winning percentage as a starter:

Alex Smith - 56%

Peyton Manning - 69%

Tom Brady - 76%

Hell, Alex Smith isn't even Tony Romo (58%).
I believe it's since 2011 and minimum games required. Espn just had a story on this the other day

 

Stinkin Ref

IBL Representative
The trade would mean a lot more to KC than ATL.

If Atlanta wants a late 5th, it can slide down in the 3rd round.

I like that Atlanta kept him, but would have understood if they had traded him.

Their season is probably over? Maybe. Maybe not. Roddy gets healthy, SJax gets healthy, who knows? Probably not, but teams have turned it around before.

Halfway through the season, don't tell the rest of your team that you are throwing in the towel, by trading what must be one of the most respected leaders on the team, for a stinking 5th.

Don't trade your franchise QB's security blanket, and increase the chance that he gets injured under a barrage of pass rushers.

The front office and coaching staff, their jobs are on the line, every year. They should give away their 2nd best offensive player, for a late 5th?

They aren't going anywhere? That's a childs argument. It doesn't mean you don't work to get somewhere. Losing is contagious, and so is winning.

If the team goes 6-3 the rest of the way, was it wasted, because they didn't get 'anywhere'? Of course not.
Of course it's wasted... the team actually HURTS itself by winning a game or two or three more than they would've WITHOUT Gonzo, because it negatively affects their draft slot in every round of the draft.
Moving back a few slots in the draft rarely makes a difference long term unless you lose out on a franchise QB. Which Atlanta doesn't need.
disagree with this...I think there are plenty of stories where teams have admitted that they had _____________ (insert hall of famer here)....lined up only to see that player get taken a few spots ahead of them.......

 

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