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Keyshawn, says he'd like to play with NE or Philly (1 Viewer)

The ironic thing about this whole subject is that I really like Keyshawn as a player.

- Because you can't remember it, Gruden doesn't get credit for building the Raiders? He took over a team that was 4-12, made them an 8-8 team with Donald Hollis at QB his 1st year. He then took a journeyman NFL QB and went on to making the Raiders a legit contender and that journeyman became NFL MVP. After he left, the Raiders were good for exactly one year and were embarassed by their former coach in the Super Bowl.

- The Gruden/Switzer comparision is laughable. There is one major difference in those situations. Jimmy won 3 titles, Barry took the same team and won 1. Dungy won ZERO titles, and Gruden took that same team to a championship his first year. BTW, Dungy hasn't won a thing with one of the greatest offenses ever assembled.

- Andy Reid, the "elite" coach, choked in the Super Bowl 2 years ago. The Eagles are in the game, but are behind and Mr.Wonderful gets painfully conservative down the stretch. Donovan may have taken the heat, but Reid is as responsible as anyone for that loss. He is a very good coach, but not great. I'll take Gruden over him any time.

- Keyshawn, elite WR? Let me check again:

e·lite or é·lite ( P ) Pronunciation Key (-lt, -lt)

n. pl. elite or e·lites

A group or class of persons or a member of such a group or class, enjoying superior intellectual, social, or economic status: “In addition to notions of social equality there was much emphasis on the role of elites and of heroes within them” (Times Literary Supplement).

The best or most skilled members of a group

OK, I'm back. Yeah, he is not an elite WR, and I'm not talking about from a fantasy perspective. He hasn't made a Pro-Bowl since 2001, has only had four 1000 yard seasons(none since 2002), and only 1 season with 10 TDs(1998) Does he run good routes? Yes. Is he a good blocker? Yes. Hines Ward does both of those things better and produces at a much higher level, which is why he qualifies as an elite WR.

Keyshawn wasn't the best WR on his team this year. He isn't even the best WR in his family. :P

 
:lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

Hey Kub,

You make some valid points, but lets rewind here.

#1. I never, ever said Key was elite, Never did I say such.

#2. You, my friend, compared Chucky to Reid. I never said Reid was elite. I just said he's a better coach and Chucky is overrated.

#3. Why did I compare Chucky to Switz, because they both took over teams that were already established as one of the best or very good, therefore; neither gets credit IMHO.

#4. Let me repeat this: "Only two WR have caught more passes in the first ten years of their career than Key and those two players are M. Harrison and TO. Key is #3, now if Harrison is elite, To is elite, can Key not be? (this is the first time I've mentioned elite and Key in the same sentence).

#5. And you're right about Dungy, but I only said that he built those teams. Was I wrong to say such? :D

 
Gruden isn't a coach worthy of respect?  What on Andy Reid's resume makes him a better coach than Gruden?  Oh, and Gruden has brought 2 organizations to contender status.

That said, Gruden chose to banish Keyshawn mid-season only a few years ago(gee, what team/coach did something similar to that recently?).  A couple of seasons without any major incidents and all is forgotten?  Sorry, I'm not ready to give him a pardon.

My point is that I don't think the Eagles are going to be so eager to bring another potential headache immediately after getting rid of the last one.
Let's not forget that Gruden is also the same guy that banished McKay to the Falcons.Gruden is a good coach, but he is also an egomaniac.
GB that :thumbup:
 
Gruden isn't a coach worthy of respect?  What on Andy Reid's resume makes him a better coach than Gruden?  Oh, and Gruden has brought 2 organizations to contender status.

That said, Gruden chose to banish Keyshawn mid-season only a few years ago(gee, what team/coach did something similar to that recently?).  A couple of seasons without any major incidents and all is forgotten?  Sorry, I'm not ready to give him a pardon.

My point is that I don't think the Eagles are going to be so eager to bring another potential headache immediately after getting rid of the last one.
No, Gruden hasn't done jack. He took an established team which was build by the blood, sweat and tears of Dungy.............hell no, he gets no credit. Tampa was trash when Dungy took over just like Indi. Right or Wrong?
:shrug: If you give credit for the Bucs to Dungy, why not give credit for the Raiders to Gruden?2002 NFL Oakland Raiders 11-5-0 Callahan (AFC Champs, lost to TB)

2001 NFL Oakland Raiders 10-6-0 Gruden

2000 NFL Oakland Raiders 12-4-0 Gruden

1999 NFL Oakland Raiders 8-8-0 Gruden

1998 NFL Oakland Raiders 8-8-0 Gruden

1997 NFL Oakland Raiders 4-12-0 Bugel
He may have done a good job in Oak I don't recall the situation at this moment. If this was Gruden's team, he no doubt gets some credit, but IMHO Gruden is still the most overrated coach in the NFL. It's like given Barry Switzer the credit for taking the Cowboys to the Superbowl..........Pleeeeeeeeeeaaaaassseee, that was Jimmy's team. Barry's sorry butt gets no credit. Build your own damn team and show us something.What have you done for me lately Chucky? :unsure:
:lmao: :lmao: Everybody with an ounce of intelligence knows that Bucs team was never going to win the SB with Dungy. Comparing him to Barry Switzer is one of the dumber things I've ever read here, and I've read lots of lhucks posts.

I didn't think people were still clinging to that ill-suited argument. But congrats on being so completely wrong on an issue. :thumbup:

btw, Chucky went 11-5 and won a division last year with a rookie RB, basically a rookie QB and one wide receiver. That's what he's done lately.

 
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:lmao: :lmao:

Everybody with an ounce of intelligence knows that Bucs team was never going to win the SB with Dungy. Comparing him to Barry Switzer is one of the dumber things I've ever read here, and I've read lots of lhucks posts.

I didn't think people were still clinging to that ill-suited argument. But congrats on being so completely wrong on an issue. :thumbup:

btw, Chucky went 11-5 and won a division last year with a rookie RB, basically a rookie QB and one wide receiver. That's what he's done lately.
I hate to agree with the little weasel Capella, but Gruden deserves the credit for building the Raiders into a Super Bowl team and he should get credit for closing the deal in Tampa.For whatever reason, some people believe these two track records are mutually exclusive of each other; as if Gruden cannot build a team and finish with the same team. Not sure why this is.

I also love to bash Chuckie, but I would choose a different platform.

 
BigTex, That part was for Bailiver, who said Keyshwan was an elite WR. I just addressed all the topics in 1 post.

As far as Gruden goes, you were the one who stated that Keyshawn wanted to play for a respected coach like Parcells, Reid, or Belicheck, insinuating that he doesn't give good coaches trouble. All I said was that Gruden is a respected coach, and he kicked Keyshawn to the curb.

Yes, Keyshawn has caught a lot of passes, but let's go a little more into this one. That where the comparisons end with those 2.

Marvin = 7 straight seasons of 1000+ yards, 7 consecutive seasons of 10+ TDs, 7 time Pro-Bowler, from 1999 to the present, he has been an elite WR

TO = 1000+ yards 6 of the last 8 years(would have easily eclisped 100 this year had he not been booted), 5 of 8 years with 10+ TDs(again, likely would have topped it this year), ProBowler from 2000-2004(5x)

Keyshawn = 1000+ in 4 of last 8 years(none since 2002), 1 year of 10 TDs(1998), 3 ProBowls(98, 99, 01)

The amount of receptions has skyrocketed over the last decade. That is why those 3 are the top 3 of all-time. All-time, there have been 47 players who have more than 100 receptions in a season. 46 of them have occurred since 1990(Art Monk is the only other). Such "immortals" as Terrance Mathis, Brett Perriman, Eric Metcalf, Robert Brooks, and Larry Centers have done it.

Keyshawn benefits from being the product of that time frame. Additionally, he was thrown to much more because he was a #1 overall pick. Most WRs don't get that many targets early in their career.

That's my case. I look forward to your response.

 
Gruden isn't a coach worthy of respect?  What on Andy Reid's resume makes him a better coach than Gruden?  Oh, and Gruden has brought 2 organizations to contender status.

That said, Gruden chose to banish Keyshawn mid-season only a few years ago(gee, what team/coach did something similar to that recently?).  A couple of seasons without any major incidents and all is forgotten?  Sorry, I'm not ready to give him a pardon.

My point is that I don't think the Eagles are going to be so eager to bring another potential headache immediately after getting rid of the last one.
No, Gruden hasn't done jack. He took an established team which was build by the blood, sweat and tears of Dungy.............hell no, he gets no credit. Tampa was trash when Dungy took over just like Indi. Right or Wrong?
:shrug: If you give credit for the Bucs to Dungy, why not give credit for the Raiders to Gruden?2002 NFL Oakland Raiders 11-5-0 Callahan (AFC Champs, lost to TB)

2001 NFL Oakland Raiders 10-6-0 Gruden

2000 NFL Oakland Raiders 12-4-0 Gruden

1999 NFL Oakland Raiders 8-8-0 Gruden

1998 NFL Oakland Raiders 8-8-0 Gruden

1997 NFL Oakland Raiders 4-12-0 Bugel
He may have done a good job in Oak I don't recall the situation at this moment. If this was Gruden's team, he no doubt gets some credit, but IMHO Gruden is still the most overrated coach in the NFL. It's like given Barry Switzer the credit for taking the Cowboys to the Superbowl..........Pleeeeeeeeeeaaaaassseee, that was Jimmy's team. Barry's sorry butt gets no credit. Build your own damn team and show us something.What have you done for me lately Chucky? :unsure:
:lmao: :lmao: Everybody with an ounce of intelligence knows that Bucs team was never going to win the SB with Dungy. Comparing him to Barry Switzer is one of the dumber things I've ever read here, and I've read lots of lhucks posts.

I didn't think people were still clinging to that ill-suited argument. But congrats on being so completely wrong on an issue. :thumbup:

btw, Chucky went 11-5 and won a division last year with a rookie RB, basically a rookie QB and one wide receiver. That's what he's done lately.
Please keep your sorry ### comments to yourself, they are not warranted nor wanted, it's evident you didn't read the entire thread. Keep your childish insults to yourself.
 
:lmao:   :lmao:

Everybody with an ounce of intelligence knows that Bucs team was never going to win the SB with Dungy. Comparing him to Barry Switzer is one of the dumber things I've ever read here, and I've read lots of lhucks posts.

I didn't think people were still clinging to that ill-suited argument. But congrats on being so completely wrong on an issue.  :thumbup:

btw, Chucky went 11-5 and won a division last year with a rookie RB, basically a rookie QB and one wide receiver. That's what he's done lately.
I hate to agree with the little weasel Capella, but Gruden deserves the credit for building the Raiders into a Super Bowl team and he should get credit for closing the deal in Tampa.For whatever reason, some people believe these two track records are mutually exclusive of each other; as if Gruden cannot build a team and finish with the same team. Not sure why this is.

I also love to bash Chuckie, but I would choose a different platform.
I mentioned nothing about Oak, only Tampa. Was I wrong? No one seems to answer this question, as it gets ignored.
 
BigTex, That part was for Bailiver, who said Keyshwan was an elite WR.  I just addressed all the topics in 1 post.

As far as Gruden goes, you were the one who stated that Keyshawn wanted to play for a respected coach like Parcells, Reid, or Belicheck, insinuating that he doesn't give good coaches trouble.  All I said was that Gruden is a respected coach, and he kicked Keyshawn to the curb.

Yes, Keyshawn has caught a lot of passes, but let's go a little more into this one.  That where the comparisons end with those 2. 

Marvin = 7 straight seasons of 1000+ yards, 7 consecutive seasons of 10+ TDs, 7 time Pro-Bowler, from 1999 to the present, he has been an elite WR

TO = 1000+ yards 6 of the last 8 years(would have easily eclisped 100 this year had he not been booted), 5 of 8 years with 10+ TDs(again, likely would have topped it this year), ProBowler from 2000-2004(5x)

Keyshawn = 1000+ in 4 of last 8 years(none since 2002), 1 year of 10 TDs(1998), 3 ProBowls(98, 99, 01)

The amount of receptions has skyrocketed over the last decade.  That is why those 3 are the top 3 of all-time.  All-time, there have been 47 players who have more than 100 receptions in a season.  46 of them have occurred since 1990(Art Monk is the only other).  Such "immortals" as Terrance Mathis, Brett Perriman, Eric Metcalf, Robert Brooks, and Larry Centers have done it. 

Keyshawn benefits from being the product of that time frame.  Additionally, he was thrown to much more because he was a #1 overall pick.  Most WRs don't get that many targets early in their career.

That's my case.  I look forward to your response.
Case dismissed! I can't argue with that. As far as Key and Chucky, I just believe he's overrated, that's just MHO. Other players, have come out after leaving Tampa and talked about the lack of respect the players had for Chucky. I don't have a link as it's been some time ago. But I do remember this. I'm not a fan of Chucky time will prove what a fraud he is, but I do love Tampa so I'm torn between the two.

As far as Chucky and Reid, I believe Reid is a better coach because he's been the most consistant year after year and very competitve. This even after releasing some of their starters and not overspending in FA.

Hey, I like your analysis. :thumbup: A good arguement is hard to find, without resulting to insults. :thumbup:

Oh

As far as Gruden goes, you were the one who stated that Keyshawn wanted to play for a respected coach like Parcells, Reid, or Belicheck, insinuating that he doesn't give good coaches trouble. All I said was that Gruden is a respected coach, and he kicked Keyshawn to the curb.
I never meant it to come out this way. I was just mentioning what they had in common. Considering Key has played with Belicheck, I guess that's were he'll be.
 
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As a Raider fan, I thought we fleeced TB with the compensation we got for Gruden at the time(especially considering he wasn't permitted to take his staff). I know he wouldn't have stayed as long as Al is calling the shots, but the Raiders got hosed on that deal. I'd imagine TB fans would make that trade all over again.

 
I have no doubts that, as an on field performer, Keyshawn would fill a very obvious need for the Eagles.  He would provide a very good possession receiver to start opposite Reggie Brown. 

However, given what they just went though with TO, I find it hard to believe the Eagles want to bring a known pain in the ### into the fray.  The wounds that TO inflicted haven't healed over yet.
Please provide a recent :link:
:confused: A recent link to my opinion? Or are you debating that Keyshawn is a pain?
Hello Kub, you said he's a pain in the ###, how did you come to this conclusion?
Let's see:2003/2004- dismissed from team, had restraining order filed against him for threatening man's life Link

Nov. 2004 - Female reporter deserves spanking

Oct. 2004 - called Rhonde Barber an "Uncle Tom"

2005 - on field argument with Bledsoe and verbal sparing with Michael Irvin, who accurately said his lack of speed keeps him from being an elite receiver

The last 3 incidents can be found in his Wikipedia entry

Yeah, you're right. He's a real sweetheart. Salt of the earth. :rolleyes:
She prolly needed a spankingHe may be an "Uncle Tom"

I saw the game, Bledsoe jumped in Keys face after a fumble, I would have put him in check too.

The verbal jab with Mike was childs play, did you not see Keys interview with Mike? (He does lack speed though).

Fact: Key was a first class citizen while here in Dallas, I saw nor heard him say anything negative about a player or a coach while Key was here. He takes it 100% on every single play. Who ever signs him will be happy with what they get.

Fact: Only two players have caught more passes than Key in the first ten years of their career: M. Harrison and TO (They also came out the same year)

If you're not ready to forgive him for his past actions, ok, I understand. But he's done nothing to deserve the label that's been put on him, at least not of late and I did not care for him coming to Dallas.
I think he definitely deserves that ##### label. And that's a pretty good list of things he's done to warrant that label. Just because he may not have done anything lately doesn't change anything.We haven't heard of Rae Carruth doing anything wrong lately either.....but I think he's probably going to hold on to that label he carries.

I would take Keyshawn on the Eagles BTW, but I want Javon.

 
As a Raider fan, I thought we fleeced TB with the compensation we got for Gruden at the time(especially considering he wasn't permitted to take his staff). I know he wouldn't have stayed as long as Al is calling the shots, but the Raiders got hosed on that deal. I'd imagine TB fans would make that trade all over again.
I thought it was much to give up for a coach, but the Tampa people seem to be happy and I guess that's all that matter. Al's hands will always be in the cookie jar, it's fact of life for any HC in Oak.
 
I have no doubts that, as an on field performer, Keyshawn would fill a very obvious need for the Eagles.  He would provide a very good possession receiver to start opposite Reggie Brown. 

However, given what they just went though with TO, I find it hard to believe the Eagles want to bring a known pain in the ### into the fray.  The wounds that TO inflicted haven't healed over yet.
Please provide a recent :link:
:confused: A recent link to my opinion? Or are you debating that Keyshawn is a pain?
Hello Kub, you said he's a pain in the ###, how did you come to this conclusion?
Let's see:2003/2004- dismissed from team, had restraining order filed against him for threatening man's life Link

Nov. 2004 - Female reporter deserves spanking

Oct. 2004 - called Rhonde Barber an "Uncle Tom"

2005 - on field argument with Bledsoe and verbal sparing with Michael Irvin, who accurately said his lack of speed keeps him from being an elite receiver

The last 3 incidents can be found in his Wikipedia entry

Yeah, you're right. He's a real sweetheart. Salt of the earth. :rolleyes:
She prolly needed a spankingHe may be an "Uncle Tom"

I saw the game, Bledsoe jumped in Keys face after a fumble, I would have put him in check too.

The verbal jab with Mike was childs play, did you not see Keys interview with Mike? (He does lack speed though).

Fact: Key was a first class citizen while here in Dallas, I saw nor heard him say anything negative about a player or a coach while Key was here. He takes it 100% on every single play. Who ever signs him will be happy with what they get.

Fact: Only two players have caught more passes than Key in the first ten years of their career: M. Harrison and TO (They also came out the same year)

If you're not ready to forgive him for his past actions, ok, I understand. But he's done nothing to deserve the label that's been put on him, at least not of late and I did not care for him coming to Dallas.
I think he definitely deserves that ##### label. And that's a pretty good list of things he's done to warrant that label. Just because he may not have done anything lately doesn't change anything.We haven't heard of Rae Carruth doing anything wrong lately either.....but I think he's probably going to hold on to that label he carries.

I would take Keyshawn on the Eagles BTW, but I want Javon.
Can't do much in prison. But I understand where your coming from, I don't agree, but I understand. For every Rae Carruth, there's a Charles Haley, Terry Glenn, Nine Tie Sanders, problem children just looking for a place to call home. True, for some players the light just doesn't come on, for some it does and it has for Key.

 
:lmao:   :lmao:

Everybody with an ounce of intelligence knows that Bucs team was never going to win the SB with Dungy. Comparing him to Barry Switzer is one of the dumber things I've ever read here, and I've read lots of lhucks posts.

I didn't think people were still clinging to that ill-suited argument. But congrats on being so completely wrong on an issue.  :thumbup:

btw, Chucky went 11-5 and won a division last year with a rookie RB, basically a rookie QB and one wide receiver. That's what he's done lately.
I hate to agree with the little weasel Capella, but Gruden deserves the credit for building the Raiders into a Super Bowl team and he should get credit for closing the deal in Tampa.For whatever reason, some people believe these two track records are mutually exclusive of each other; as if Gruden cannot build a team and finish with the same team. Not sure why this is.

I also love to bash Chuckie, but I would choose a different platform.
I mentioned nothing about Oak, only Tampa. Was I wrong? No one seems to answer this question, as it gets ignored.
Of course you were wrong. Dungy could never get them to the SB, and Gruden did. Not a very hard bridge to cross. Sapp, Lynch and other players have said Gruden was the main reason they made it that far.

You also were wrong in implying Gruden has done nothing lately.

 
:lmao:   :lmao:

Everybody with an ounce of intelligence knows that Bucs team was never going to win the SB with Dungy. Comparing him to Barry Switzer is one of the dumber things I've ever read here, and I've read lots of lhucks posts.

I didn't think people were still clinging to that ill-suited argument. But congrats on being so completely wrong on an issue.  :thumbup:

btw, Chucky went 11-5 and won a division last year with a rookie RB, basically a rookie QB and one wide receiver. That's what he's done lately.
I hate to agree with the little weasel Capella, but Gruden deserves the credit for building the Raiders into a Super Bowl team and he should get credit for closing the deal in Tampa.For whatever reason, some people believe these two track records are mutually exclusive of each other; as if Gruden cannot build a team and finish with the same team. Not sure why this is.

I also love to bash Chuckie, but I would choose a different platform.
I mentioned nothing about Oak, only Tampa. Was I wrong? No one seems to answer this question, as it gets ignored.
Of course you were wrong. Dungy could never get them to the SB, and Gruden did. Not a very hard bridge to cross. Sapp, Lynch and other players have said Gruden was the main reason they made it that far.

You also were wrong in implying Gruden has done nothing lately.
You need to reread my post. I agree True Sapp, Lynch and others said those things but it was while they were in Tampa. But the tune changed after they left (at least from Sapp, that I remember).

 
:lmao:   :lmao:

Everybody with an ounce of intelligence knows that Bucs team was never going to win the SB with Dungy. Comparing him to Barry Switzer is one of the dumber things I've ever read here, and I've read lots of lhucks posts.

I didn't think people were still clinging to that ill-suited argument. But congrats on being so completely wrong on an issue.  :thumbup:

btw, Chucky went 11-5 and won a division last year with a rookie RB, basically a rookie QB and one wide receiver. That's what he's done lately.
I hate to agree with the little weasel Capella, but Gruden deserves the credit for building the Raiders into a Super Bowl team and he should get credit for closing the deal in Tampa.For whatever reason, some people believe these two track records are mutually exclusive of each other; as if Gruden cannot build a team and finish with the same team. Not sure why this is.

I also love to bash Chuckie, but I would choose a different platform.
I mentioned nothing about Oak, only Tampa. Was I wrong? No one seems to answer this question, as it gets ignored.
Of course you were wrong. Dungy could never get them to the SB, and Gruden did. Not a very hard bridge to cross. Sapp, Lynch and other players have said Gruden was the main reason they made it that far.

You also were wrong in implying Gruden has done nothing lately.
You need to reread my post. I agree True Sapp, Lynch and others said those things but it was while they were in Tampa. But the tune changed after they left (at least from Sapp, that I remember).
Of course. They probably weren't happy being cut or in Sapp's case, not even offered a deal.Not many people have wonderful things to say when they leave a franchise.

 
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:lmao:   :lmao:

Everybody with an ounce of intelligence knows that Bucs team was never going to win the SB with Dungy. Comparing him to Barry Switzer is one of the dumber things I've ever read here, and I've read lots of lhucks posts.

I didn't think people were still clinging to that ill-suited argument. But congrats on being so completely wrong on an issue.  :thumbup:

btw, Chucky went 11-5 and won a division last year with a rookie RB, basically a rookie QB and one wide receiver. That's what he's done lately.
I hate to agree with the little weasel Capella, but Gruden deserves the credit for building the Raiders into a Super Bowl team and he should get credit for closing the deal in Tampa.For whatever reason, some people believe these two track records are mutually exclusive of each other; as if Gruden cannot build a team and finish with the same team. Not sure why this is.

I also love to bash Chuckie, but I would choose a different platform.
I mentioned nothing about Oak, only Tampa. Was I wrong? No one seems to answer this question, as it gets ignored.
Of course you were wrong. Dungy could never get them to the SB, and Gruden did. Not a very hard bridge to cross. Sapp, Lynch and other players have said Gruden was the main reason they made it that far.

You also were wrong in implying Gruden has done nothing lately.
You need to reread my post. I agree True Sapp, Lynch and others said those things but it was while they were in Tampa. But the tune changed after they left (at least from Sapp, that I remember).
Of course. They probably weren't happy being cut or in Sapp's case, not even offered a deal.Not many people have wonderful things to say when they leave a franchise.
Agreed.
 
:lmao:   :lmao:

Everybody with an ounce of intelligence knows that Bucs team was never going to win the SB with Dungy. Comparing him to Barry Switzer is one of the dumber things I've ever read here, and I've read lots of lhucks posts.

I didn't think people were still clinging to that ill-suited argument. But congrats on being so completely wrong on an issue.  :thumbup:

btw, Chucky went 11-5 and won a division last year with a rookie RB, basically a rookie QB and one wide receiver. That's what he's done lately.
I hate to agree with the little weasel Capella, but Gruden deserves the credit for building the Raiders into a Super Bowl team and he should get credit for closing the deal in Tampa.For whatever reason, some people believe these two track records are mutually exclusive of each other; as if Gruden cannot build a team and finish with the same team. Not sure why this is.

I also love to bash Chuckie, but I would choose a different platform.
I mentioned nothing about Oak, only Tampa. Was I wrong? No one seems to answer this question, as it gets ignored.
Of course you were wrong. Dungy could never get them to the SB, and Gruden did. Not a very hard bridge to cross. Sapp, Lynch and other players have said Gruden was the main reason they made it that far.

You also were wrong in implying Gruden has done nothing lately.
You need to reread my post. I agree True Sapp, Lynch and others said those things but it was while they were in Tampa. But the tune changed after they left (at least from Sapp, that I remember).
No offense intended BigTex, but I can't remember Sapp (while a Buc or a Raider) ever discrediting Gruden for getting that Buc team to the Championship and then winning it.
 
:lmao:   :lmao:

Everybody with an ounce of intelligence knows that Bucs team was never going to win the SB with Dungy. Comparing him to Barry Switzer is one of the dumber things I've ever read here, and I've read lots of lhucks posts.

I didn't think people were still clinging to that ill-suited argument. But congrats on being so completely wrong on an issue.  :thumbup:

btw, Chucky went 11-5 and won a division last year with a rookie RB, basically a rookie QB and one wide receiver. That's what he's done lately.
I hate to agree with the little weasel Capella, but Gruden deserves the credit for building the Raiders into a Super Bowl team and he should get credit for closing the deal in Tampa.For whatever reason, some people believe these two track records are mutually exclusive of each other; as if Gruden cannot build a team and finish with the same team. Not sure why this is.

I also love to bash Chuckie, but I would choose a different platform.
I mentioned nothing about Oak, only Tampa. Was I wrong? No one seems to answer this question, as it gets ignored.
Of course you were wrong. Dungy could never get them to the SB, and Gruden did. Not a very hard bridge to cross. Sapp, Lynch and other players have said Gruden was the main reason they made it that far.

You also were wrong in implying Gruden has done nothing lately.
You need to reread my post. I agree True Sapp, Lynch and others said those things but it was while they were in Tampa. But the tune changed after they left (at least from Sapp, that I remember).
No offense intended BigTex, but I can't remember Sapp (while a Buc or a Raider) ever discrediting Gruden for getting that Buc team to the Championship and then winning it.
Hello Big Score, non taken. I never said nor meant Sapp discredited Gruden for getting them to the Champion. If I made it appear that way I certainly didn't mean to. If memory serves me correclty :unsure: Sapp said something along the lines of the players didn't respect Gruden even though it appeared that way, and the players did what they wanted and controlled the locker room. I believe it was on ESPN one night maybe Beyond the Glory.
 
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